When Food & Usable Items Become Muktza - Rabbi Yakov Zev Smith

What? [clears throat] Come on. Everyone when food and usable items become mukbing. Call 7188518651 or email at.com or go to Shirra.com. Har Smith. Someone told me recently heard a sh from ml that said that when you have a candy wrap or a small packet of sugar and you empty it out. So the candy wrap or the packet is mutzah after all it's useless is functionless and he found it surprising. So I looked into it and I saw it's a beautiful I hope you enjoy as much as I did the suga because it touches upon the major and a big part of it of course is to the disposable items they'll soon see a person has a water bottle a soda bottle a glass metal a glass wine bottle or grape juice bottle and when they're emptied when does the apply [clears throat] so this person t it to me well why what's wrong let's say I want to use it. He says, "I like to use the wrapper of a lollipop." I said, "Why do you use a wrap of lollipop?" So, you know, he puts it down occasionally and takes it off, you know, like Bengavra, he puts it down. So, does that make it a kay? Most people don't use it. But his ta was if there's a I'm [clears throat] allowed to use it, but it's not true because when you have a you have a hammer, you're allowed to move. But here the the concern is it may be an empty bag of sugar or a a wrapper a lollipop a candy wrapper if it's what type of is it like no of so then we started thinking maybe the fact is that this wrap was on the candy so when shabas came it wasn't muk does it something become muksah on shabas Don't we know it's that doesn't apply in this case that's also wrong but to mention because it's a big means when something was it remains the entire shabas for example if you have on the table and there's nothing else but so if that was on the entire the table is even if a guy took off the because it's But let's say something on Shabas became mutzah for example very simple you have a eggshells and you peeled the egg shabas morning so leman the eggshells are mah is part of the eggs fine it didn't come then but now if it's useless it's so we see important this number one there's no of number two something could become mukbah on chabas. So why shouldn't a takadis candy wrapper why shouldn't that become mukah? So the redeeming factor is it's possible to use it a candy wrap you could put the candy back and if you have imagination you could do anything. So the question that we have to try to deal with is is it enough that it's possible to use or it has to be actually used. In other words, is it or is it potential or once we clarify that we'll be able to understand many many shas but let's be very clear about this that the what comes to mind and people have this again the same attitude we do find something that potential is good enough and what is that it's a it's a actually it's a It's someone ate chicken on chabas and he has chicken bones remaining. So if it's royal it's not and spells out even though you don't own a dog you're scared of dogs. But if it's not what do we see that when something has potential even not for you it's good enough. So maybe the same thing will apply for a candy wrapper. If it has potential, it was good enough. However, that's not a at all because the reason why bones are hil bones are so liberal is because when when shabas came, the bones were part of an never loses status of until it is totally useless. If you could tell me a dog would eat it, it does. Oh, is not mukah. But our case, a rapper, a flimsy rapper could be makma. So there's no ray from dog food. What comes to mind, I guess even more, which is even more impulsive that a stone for example, you want to pick up a stone on shabas. Why? Hold down the page. So that we say is mutzah. Why? Because it was muktashes. But could be our case in a certain a little better because the rapper was part of the candy. So maybe once bes came and it was a kay part of a food alkapon and now it's somewhat usable maybe that would be enough to say it's no longer m or the bottom line is are you going to use it or not? If it's not probably going to use it it's going to be. So listen, we have a but any that was usable on on shabas. So here the mish is saying let's say you have a nice plate, a china plate and it broke on chabas. So if you could use a half a plate to keep the tea hot cover the tea for bugs or for gilo or to keep it warm. So as long as it does it's possible to use it on it's not okay in the you have to use maybe it's a problem but we as long as it has any function whatsoever state as long as it has any function whatsoever it is not state in the quotes this and Mr. points out the following. Even though stones are on Shabas, that's because when Shabas came, they were never a but this broke broken plate was a regular plate. Oh, so when Shabas came, it was not. Now it's to cover your tea. It's not a state in the and there are more ads. But let's say it broke into a few hundred pieces like some type of glass small pieces. So the piece are not. So now what does it become? It was a k good form. But right now it's worth worthless broken glass. Okay. Says if it's a problem, someone might get hurt. You got to move it on chabas. But what we see from here is the fact that it's usable. It still retains Hashem Kali but the is the next se based on a gor let's say someone had a broken plate in or caramel. Now there's no way he's going to be able to cover his tea with this broken plate in because there's nothing there. There's no it's still because since it's raw to cover a tea it has this is a gold mine of information because as we see even though you will not cannot use it if the it's right to use it's not the does add but stones that you want to use on chabas is mutzah because Ben is came it was not a kali again the same is but this plate bash was a now it's still not [clears throat] so we have a beautiful from again the if it's usable is not [clears throat] but before we jump to conclusions we have to learn a different it's like a beautiful puzzle everything fits in the says The Gmorra is as follows. A mat is a needle. A sewing needle that we have. They also had it has two parts to it. The the the sh part which you could use to take out a splinter and is the hole which you use for sewing. So the says let's say either the sticky pot or the whole pot broke off. It's mutzah. break. Why? If let's say the whole pot broke off, so it's still still has that sharp part to take out a needle, take out a splinter. So why is it mah? Why is it different than a kay that's still roy doesn't that why? Because the matas is that this this broken needle a person throw the mats is that people take a broken needle and put it in not in the garbage they put it in a receptacle that holds broken metal and they smelt it and they reuse it. Now this is quot you allow to take a needle to take it take out a splinter because once it broke it's totally why so again the quotes because you don't reuse it now you ask me why people don't reuse it I don't know you have to ask a psychologist but it seemed in those days the mitas was people threw it What [clears throat] do we see from here? Something very important. Even though it's roy to use, it's still the same sharp edge taking out a splinter. But if you throw it out, it's what do we see? And that's the way the explain even though it's roy. So what do we have in this beautiful picture so far? a a a broken kayi that's roy is not mutzah if nobody uses it even though it's royi it becomes mutz thinking a little bit about a disposable can disposable bottle even though it's roy to use but no one uses it but this is the case of and now we have is that if you don't use it one less that really is negate to all of this and here's the following case it's a gimmor In Shabas the end of days a person had a broken ki and he threw into the garbage on air of shabas. So is it becomes if he threw into the garbage on shabasi it's not why if you throw into the garbage on air of shabas is it you throw a shirt into the garbage you tell me he becomes mah so why do you throw a broken k into the garbage is a mah So theor obviously held that we can understand the and the is that we need today for many many says you threw a broken kay on air of shabas it becomes a broken kay on shabas in the garbage is not but a kay a kay a gle is never mah what's mostly the emmes is when you have a bro a a broken kay let's talk about a half of a of a plate the china plate it is royally to use it but how do I know if you're never going to use it how do I know if you look at it like a broken kay that's functionless if you threw it in the garbage on shabis what are you saying this is not good for me I don't need it so that is you identify this as a aim. It was roy but you don't use it. You don't throw out an ice dish. Let's say you threw out an shabas. So right now it's but let's say you decide you want to take it out to use it for your tea. Nothing changed. It should be mut. Why? Cuz it was not. You threw it out. So throw it in. Easy come easy go. If came it's a it's automatically but you threw it on shabas you're allowed to take it out but why if you throw a k why is it so pit you're allowed to take it out it's not because it's not it's not broken nothing wrong with it putting in the garbage and not show anything you don't want to use it so don't use it but it doesn't become totally valless a kayi shaim never loses its status as kay z The again really the both explain that there's a concept of you tak took your old shirt and threw it in the garbage. You don't need it but most people don't throw a good shirt in the garbage. So this guy tells us you can't make a kali into mah a full kah I the case of a broken kali that's beautiful it's not a kali it's an in between status in between situation you decide what it's going to be so this is the now we have ki if you're going to use it is mut av that you're definitely not going to use we have the case of is the case of a and now we have this important clause which again is a Most of our shas a broken kale you threw out on air of shabas is a k you throw out of shabas and certainly on shabas is not a a broken kale you threw out on shabas you could use it because there no there was no imig okay now let's apply somebody asked me to sh he had a he bought some new undershirts whatever it was for y and he had a drawer full of undershirts and he didn't need so many So, Arab Shabas as a last moment decision. He took one of the undershirts that that that was old, but it was it was not it wasn't like, you know, what you call a holy undershirt. There's no holes in it. But he had too many of them. So, he took the one that was oldest and put in the garbage. But Shabas morning, he came and his brother spilled out a half a gallon of water all over the floor. He said, "Oh, Barashem, the Bam gave me a fool for the Maka." He went to the garbage and took out the undershirt. Undershirts are very absorbent, by the way. wipes up the spill. Of course, no problem because it's he's absorbing it. That's not expelling it. But then he someone told him you threw out it's the answer is not true. If this is a ki sh because it's not holy like we say it's a kali g k does not become. Now let me share with you an absolutely delightful sham. Someone had an arva. That's is a mixing bowl which the po say is a a it's to make those. So he had a glass. Okay. The it broke on Shabas or before Shabas and but his masle he could use now half a plate to cover his tea. Fine. Now he got very close to this broken kale because it was very good. He used it Friday night. He used a chab this morning and he left it outside and now it's about to rain or someone might steal it and he wants to bring in this broken ara which is now a tea cover. He's not using it. He wants to bring in it to preserve it. It might get taken. It might stolen. It might get broken. Whatever it is, can he move this ara that became a a covered tea cover? You think about it, it's beautiful because now it's a regular teacup tea cover. That's a you're allowed to move it. Wait a second. What was it identity? It was an Arava. It broke on Shabas, let's say. So maybe it's and who says this if the kay broke on air of shabas and you decide to use it as a teac of shabas. So then taka when shabas came what was its status but if shabas came and it was a regular it was and it broke on to move it only would be like it was and he points out listen to this which is but everything is but it's such a beautiful the first he says a novel can that the whole concept of will not apply to why that it's beautiful. What does it mean? When came it was so you can't move it. It was useless. But you're allowed to use famous is not even it's really because you use it nor you shouldn't use it. But even without the has usefulness you use it says maybe there's no so however the quotes it says but it is somewhat restricted you can't move so therefore he says there is a But the continued listen to this let's say someone had a very expensive vase which the RV told him I'm not saying always but the said this is a kiss again not always but that's this case and as as always happens the child broke it on chabas the father's fuming but he have he decided you know I have a good idea I'm going to make the best of it and I'm going to take it I'm going to use it as a tea cover something Can he use it on Shabas as a cover to the to his tea or not? this case all agree there's no because if when shabas came it was still a vase what was the on it all agree this is even if you have it's a question mark but not in that case all agree is a problem and that's the test you're looking at he has a point to be on the page. But Mr. Brun and Mam say this would be MT even though it's fully functional. But wait, we're not yet finished. Someone had a regular plate. Wonderful. And it broke on Shabas, but now it can't be a plate. But somehow the way it broke it, you could use it to make. So it broke. It became a boy and he wants to move it. Again, this was a regular plate. It broke on Shabas and now it's a it's a can he move it or whatever if it's not. So will say okay let's start again was right so now it broke but it was why couldn't you move it that's wrong it's not the is when so it's the dinner is is aw You want to say because it was a plate it become temple as no such thing is it's not and this would not be mut question someone had lunch on shabis and and as the way it is I guess I could say but people throw a lot of edible food in the garbage and this is one of the situations he threw a half a sandwich a half an apple pikita He put in food mamish in the food in the in the garbage on air of shabas. It came shabas and I was wondering if the food is mutzah. Now let's talk about a hypothetical case. He put the the half the sandwich in a bag and it's still not mus it's not dirty. It didn't get dirty. No one used much of the garbage. Can he take it out to eat it? You say who eats from the garbage? So I'll give you a much better case. And this is a question to get to every Yiddish house. People move mukt the garbage can from the corner where it is to the table to help clean up the table. Do you ever think about maybe the garbage can is mukt if bashm is all you add in the garbage can is is mutzah. So it's it's the whole garbage can is mukah the garbage is mukah the can is a buses you can't move the garbage can but the place can say if anything of value was that's not mukah in the garbage. So then the the the garbage mah is worth zero. This usable item is worth a quarter. The mice is worth a quarter. So the garbage is for the and not for the fine. Now here the question. Let's say bashes came. You did not empty out the garbage. It's the same garbage with eggshells and peels and all diapers and all the real. But there's that half a sandwich in the garbage. Bash mashes. You threw it in the garbage Friday afternoon. There was a half a sandwich and all. Does that make the garbage can because of the sandwich? Or maybe well you threw it to the garbage man. Why don't we say that if you threw out of Shabas it becomes the question is how do you define? Now I'll tell you something that sounds funny but it's not. Will you say that anal a half a sandwich is like a chevi? That's ridiculous because there's no dinner is like food is food. [clears throat] Now if the if the food in the garbage became nimas because it was together with diapers is no talk. But if you put it in with a with a plastic wrapper. So it's a it's a it's a it's an even though it's half a sandwich and to my knowledge all the say this I interesting I could not find earlier P speak about this simply because they didn't throw out food today one my bra said you could feed half of India with the food that goes in the garbage in yeshiva it's a big about but it's not for now but here the question is that this is a even though it's So in the garbage not change of status and it seems to be if you put in the garbage on then there's no sh but if you put in Arab shabas said almost all the say that shabas does add in became okay so is but it's a wonderful idea that really one should try to if possible to change the bag before Shabas but if Shabas came and the bag was still had real mutzah if there's any edible food that's still edible that would be matzel on the sh on the muk issue interesting question because again it makes us think and it's it fits in beautifully to the puzzle let's say in the he he did in the garbage on on on air of shabas going into shabas there was no edible food but his So he fed his children the s the shabas early and they left a few chicken bones. So he threw the chicken bones in the garbage of shabas and now bmash is comes. What's in the garbage? Masu galore and a few edible for for dogs chicken bones. How do you look at edible chicken bones for a dog? Is that like an or so what is it? It's good for dogs. It's considered like a it was in the garbage. It becomes the he has at the end of he has a he says I don't I think he's saying something that's not correct. He says aval of the now it's functionless. You want to be thrifty and and creative and use it but right now it's valueless. Chicken bones is a normal American uh entity. It's called dog food. Dog food is not broken. Dog food is bisha dog food. The fact that it came from a higher level food. Wonderful. So it had it had but it's the dog food is not is not chev and he feels even if it was the dog food like dog food if it's of club that is it would not be mooked question someone had a delivery that came on Shabas and like most people he took the cardboard boxes the way they are and put them in the garbage area he doesn't have time to you know tear it apart he'll do that when when the collection day comes a shabas morning comes and he has a need for box. He's making the same. He needs a box. Well, I had a box last night. Can he bring in the cardboard box from the garbage and use it on? So, this is considered. But then again, how would you identify the cardboard box? Now, you say it's not worth all the it doesn't have to have in if it's as it is. Nothing changed. Okay, good. Now let's say he was ahead a step a step ahead of the game and Shaba is like like he takes apart the box folds it up to make it recyclable and then Shabas's morning is a big snow or big rain so he wants to put down this has door you know on the floor to keep the floor clean good idea but it's not mut because you took apart the box that already is a ki shar you put it in the garbage that's the case so if you put an air of shabas in the garbage It's you put it on Shabas. You c you broke it up before Shab. You put it on Shabas. So then you could take it out if there's a need. I should mention speak about Zion and Z. The exact same thing. It's in a garbage can. Z means you decided I'm not using it. It could even be you put it in the back of your house or or back room. If you put it someplace where this is it it's its last it sentence it's out lo in a can do in the garbage. You could put it in the back of the house but you're getting rid of it. It's in other words it's on its way out. A broken ki you want to fix it. This you want to get rid of it. That's the fundamental of ash. The next group of questions is challenging but we have to clarify. And I think we have enough information and that is the wrappers whether it's lollipop candies the small sugar packets um yogurt leban containers cheese tissues wrappers. So the question is how do you look at a wrapper? Let's talk about a a candy wrapper. So it's not that valuable but it's good for candy. You could reuse it for candy also. Most people don't they don't reuse a candy but it's sh. So, how do you look at something like that that can be used but typically is not used? You could use it, especially a lean and yogurt container. It's pretty firm. You know, it's probably probable that it's it's that more than a plastic cup. This lasts longer. It's a little more sturdy. Probably if you hold that, you're allowed to make kdish on a plastic cup. You can make kdish on a on a on a uh on a lean or yogurt container because it holds it very good. So the easiest question is the rappers because even though it's potentially usable if the belt throws it out we have a gimra which gor the case of mat mak is also usable it's the same sharp pin but if other it becomes so why is rapper different but I could tell you a much more convincing argument now this is part of a different suga but it's very relevant at least the t To make a long story short, the following in those days they didn't have cans or bottles like we have that's disposable. How did they package food? So this is called based on a Mishna and they were very crafty. They had to be had nothing else. We use dry lul leaves to make a kula on our lulafas. Some people like to make a wicked basket, but they made kalem to contain the tom had to ripen. They put the in and they made a kali around it from from lula branches and it stayed until it was royal. So in says and shabas comes and you didn't open before shabas. Can you break open this this container this ki to get to the food? So says if your practice is you break it apart and throw it in the garbage it's a it's like cracking a knot. Now what does it have to do with this? Let me give you a better mushroom. If you buy a coconut, okay, and you crack the coconut in half, you have a shell. So that coconut shell I assume has durability. It lasts. It's strong. Why not break open a coconut on Shabas? You're making a kali. You make a two kale. Two of a coconut. So quoting it's not true. There's an is even on a small kali. But it has to be a kali. If it's not a kali, there's no kali, right? A shell is not a kali. A shell is a container. But ra when you crack the coconut open, you don't reuse it. So is not a kali. If it's not a kali, it can't be. And this is the some can use to open cans and bottles on chabas because it's only okay. Many people are that's not get into that now. But the point is when something is classified as a [clears throat] it's not a kay. Isn't it logical to say a candy wrapper, lollipop wrapper, sugar packet is not a kay at all? >> [clears throat] >> It's a it's a container. And the biggest RA is when you finish the candy wrapper, you don't put it back in the break for tomorrow. You put in the garbage. When you finish your candy dish food, you put the dish in the break. What's the a kali is reused. Ael is made to be a container. A container, a wrapper. Is a word you find today Hebrew use as a diaper because it's w a wrapper goes around. So this is the miser why it makes sense a flimsy wrapper again a sugar packet lollipop candy these type of things which are not reusable I mean maybe slightly and it doesn't have any durability would be either a or like a but this is why those things should be now someone asked yeah but bay mashes came the wrap was part of the candy and it was not I said therefore It's no different than X shells. So that's why it's it seems correct to say that a rapper that's functionless should be considered. So what's the eight? It's like everything else in your descript and put in the garbage. Okay? If it's left on the table, you could blow it off. I mean there's ways of working around tilt and but a person that knows what he's doing takes the wrapper and puts it in the garbage. Now someone asked me he says in his there's a sign whoever picks up the children whoever picks up five candy apples on the floor gets a prize. So he's training the children to move. Someone else said if he throws in the garbage and he missed the garbage. So you have to pick it up now right? Oh that's a problem. So the musculars don't miss get it into the k but more on a more serious note again it seems very uncensible that if these rappers are totally functionless and and especially you took out the candy bay before shabas came a vada that would be a nice says this got important and almost all the Same applies if someone got a gift on Shabas and let's say he was someone's from before Shabas and he wants to open it up. So there's a wrap around it. So the truth is tearing lettering is a problem. But the wrapping has no lettering. It's just an abstract uh design. No lettering. Okay. So he says I want to use it on Shabas. So we'll consider it like an or you'll tear it to get to the safer that's gift wrapped in it. If you tak destroy the the the gift wrapping, then it becomes mah. It's totally functionalist torn paper. Now, if you if the person opens it up and slides out the safer and he might even reuse that same paper, okay, it's not muk. But if he tears it apart the way he described, this should be a real mut was not mutine. But now it is. Again, the mistake is we compare things to we think is the only factor. It's not true. This is also graa people that have kishka the camp and yeshiva it's very na they have these big rolls of kishka or salami they take off the wrapper plastic wrapper tear it off and they cut up the food. So theoretically that wrapper should be considered mah. It's totally functionalist unless it's very maybe some people find it very you know unpleasant. Maybe it's a considered but you have to be careful. You know people say it's it's not pleasant. So you have to realize in when something is not pleasant you know what it's called. The only time it's mut is when it got when when when it goes higher level of mus and then it's gra but the fact that it's not pleasant is a not a it has to be a gra to be a but anyhow again you tear off the theishka wrapper put in the garbage right away and finish another point that's aim is what people ask they should not ask just do it and that is use tissues so the emiss is in theory again if you have a tissue and you got your money's worth and it's totally useless and that same it's if it's totally functionless it's now says but most people don't use it there's some use of it left then it's not but you threw out a tissue before shabas about this mah. Now here the concern is that when someone else left his used tissues on your place which of course is a terrible violation so started crying punished us what we don't know we did something wrong says yes if he spits out in front of his friend and his friend feels uncomfortable well Guess what? There's a new Now times you use a dirty tissue and leave it on the table during the week even. That's alone. People find it very very unpleasant. You know, I don't like to say a dirty tissue. I like to call it a a pre-owned tissue. If you leave your pre-owned tissue on the table and someone finds it, it's very unpleasant. So that's why don't leave it there. You know the person that finds it might be able to move it as but so we have to be mentioned on Shabas and during the week a used tissue goes in the garbage in your pocket whatever it is but not on public display. If someone left it on your on your place you could either blow it off or perhaps if you think it's gra which it probably is you pick it up and put in the garbage and the person has threw some cha while he did that. a drink box that's never reused is m a yogurt a lean a a k cheese container. So this in in in its the of it is taka a little better than rappers. In fact probably it's a little stronger even than a plastic a hot a cold cup like they call it. But the question is kazi does anybody reuse a lean or yogurt cup and it's usable. You can make kdish on it if you hold that a plastic cup is kasha. But this should be the gor of mad also is to be used. But if nobody but nobody uses it these lab and yogurt containers should be a problem. I did see the the say for he throws out a possibility that since the nursery teachers use these cups and arts and crafts maybe that makes it but he says at the end and I think today no one does this any longer. I think they're into bigger and better things in the nurseries but they don't use yoga you know containers. So a yoga container is a perfect example of a usable item that's not used. So again, like everything else, if you have it in your hand, put in the garbage. The truth be told that if you didn't throw in the garbage yet and you still might use it, that might be for itself. But in an era of Shabas, it was thrown into the garbage a that would be a mah issue. The Shabas spells this out. He says, if the yogurt cup is on the table and you had it just finished enjoying the yogurt, could be mutzah. Why? He says the mat becomes because it's broken. So broken and not using it makes a not broken. This is a that that you don't use. who said you don't use it it's so could be the would be after you finish it will not be that's what he wants to say and it's a big because the two that we saw that it becomes are both kali sh the mishna but this is a new a new phenomena a kal shalom now you might say it's an inferior kal shalam but the ai shalom it is now this leads us to probably the most difficult sham and that is let's talk about a wine bottle, grape juice bottle, a disposable soda bottle, water bottle. Today they have this 16 ounce whatever it is of water and uh people drink it and reuse it all and you have this what called in in in today in Hebrew a pami all the place we discussed that how do you look at a kali shal again soda bottle water bottle wine bottle are not broken you can't say it's sh so it's a kay shal that most people don't reuse and the question is when it was thrown in the garbage Arab shabis does it becomes or not like a kish or maybe what do you mean it's not a k [clears throat] but here the main main suffici in the garbage is not so we saw the all say but no one throws a complete k in the garbage well guess what in America everybody throws a complete k in the garbage wine bottles and grap juice bottles. You know, my babble would could not throw out a mayonnaise jar for the life of her. Kashka said, "How can you do it?" But the mice we do it so things have changed. So today we could say if someone reused the man who's mayonnaise bottle so could be it's not so again what's mostly gave to us. We're not taking the mayonnaise jars out of the garbage to use. But does it save the hilas of the garbage can? You don't have to throw in food. You have you have a a jar. So the is that this is again the the the shil of today because it's the most and you know so many things go in the garbage. So anami if you have a paper plate that you use for shant so it can't be reused but even a a plastic plate could be reused. So you might say, well, if it's dirty, it's a kaye sho maybe. But a bottle, a water bottle, a wine, wine glass, a glass wine bottle, why is that considered anything but a ky and the yo all say the follow. When you finish drinking your wine, the bottle is not yet. Nothing changed. It's still a bottle that you might not need. Fine. But if you put in the garbage, it becomes you put in the garbage of Shabas, it becomes it has the of a you threw on the garbage of Shabas. Why? There's no I saw also the he says a a disposable you put in the garbage of Shabas becomes on the table is fine because nothing changed that it became mutzah as long as it's you know not broken. I mean as long as it's not dangerous that it becomes mutzah or totally something that you can't use this you still could use but in the garbage it became however there is a very strong to be which makes a lot of sense where do we find becomes this now it's true it's true that there's no But the and he's not the only one that says this. We never find a precedent that becomes. So if on the table it's not MT yet. So the garbage is yes. But to counteract that Tina I have a much better Tina because you'll ask me what is let's let's visualize a water bottle plastic water bottle or a wine bottle. Okay. What is this shalom or shalom? You know what I would say? None of the above. You know what it is? A wine bottle was even though it's the most kosher wine, the bottle were made by that's the wise to use a wine bottle to pour out the wine from it. Why don't you have to ital is until it's emptied. It's not a kali. It's a and all the po can say that. So the terret is that a wine bottle is if you want to reuse it you want to make it into a kal you have to that's but for us it has a major impact on if we could classify a wine bottle as a then once you threw in the garbage you identified it that it never was a ki so it's not even a question of a muk it's not a kali it's a functionalist and that I think is a very very convincing ing argument why this should be a problem. So it's not a not it's and that never materialize has the of a. So this why again when you have a bottle a water bottle or glass metal jar on the table empty the way it is is fine. You threw it out on Shabas, you could take it out. But if it's still there, it's you threw it out of Shabas. It makes sense to say that that taka would be Mah. In other words, if you have you you will need a to move the garbage. Which is a a safer? If there's a wine bottle in the garbage or a piece of food there, it's a food is better cuz a food no one disagrees unless it's nimas. But a water bottle once you put in the garbage may there's a very good reason to say that a taco won't be matzah. So that's why again this maybe t someone has a better I'd love to hear. But I do understand one thing that it's almost I would almost have the the the the audacity to say that a wine bottle you threw out of Shabas is not much better than a sugar packet that's made of a piece of paper. Both of them areless that never became a kal. I say how could you compare a a small sugar packet to a a full wine bottle made of glass? Ter says you're right. The material is very different but its function both were that that we finished you put them in the garbage. So it's that a bottle has the same status like a sugar packet or lollipop rapper. Now those that were make their starting point is if it's not broken leave me alone there's no suffic now you can't prove either way because the gmorrah says two two criterions. One is broken which is by the case of the the and but the other one is but here you're missing the butler. So that's why I think it's a good someone wants and he says listen if it's not broken getting back to our situation of a garbage can that you want to move the garbage can on Shabas. So again, empty the garbage before Shabas you save all Shabas then then Shabas came nothing in the garbage. Now let's say you didn't. So again, if there's food in it that's still edible, that's vada. The the a wine bottle, a water bottle is a suffic a a used people used to put a can of tuna in the garbage can in the bottom and it was always a hat. But you know, uncomfortable is it edible? Even though it's clear clothes, but I think a more practical you put a a number of garbage clean garbage bags in the bottom of the garbage. So then it's a buses for the and doesn't get nimus whose garbage bag with garbage is a good so you're fine. I mean tuna fish works but it's not open for so but that's a a more simpler a more simple a used aluminum pan that came from kougal. So again typically it probably could be reused but who washes it? Who will reuse it? So it's probably no different than a a used water bottle maybe tak. But either case if it's in the garbage would be muts you have a cholant container that's that could be if it's gra no so that's but again that's something subjective question someone asked it was of shabas and after a few children took they took a shower so he took the their towel and he put it into the laundry because he wanted to wash it but shabas morning came and there was a big spill. So he wanted to run to the to the uh to the hamper where the towel was and take out the towel and wipe up the spill. But then he started thinking that maybe it's a problem just like if you threw it into the garbage of Shabas it becomes mah so to a towel. So I told him the the dimian is strained. That's putting a mildly because when you put something in the garbage that's its final destination that's the way to get rid of it. You put something into the hamper. That's the way to clean it to make it better. But in no time or no place did it become mutz didn't come. Maybe you put it you designate it for not not using but you didn't make into mah. A towel unless it's mamish has full of holes is not a clich. It's a clich. So who said you could compare a a laundry to a broken k to to a to a uh in the garbage? Gimmelash all say that a laundry is not enough to make it a broken into a broken kali. It's still the same kali which does not have a problem of another true story someone on shabas he was wearing his talis cotton and you know today the boys have longer talis you know the tits hang down moms come out to the floor but it's some wrapped around in a chair and he was walking and he yanked out the one of the tits and that's one of the four strings made into eight so now we had a beggar of dal confo with only Three of the four having tits. In other words, wearing that during the week is a bit of the mitzvah of it's also to wear shabas. So shabas like it's quite a brief to take it off but one should not wear it the way it is because it's a bit lass. Now is the famous of the says that since there's no way to put on sit on chabas so there's no there's no way of putting it on there's no is but it's better take it off. The only thing that we find init that when someone has it so there's differences and you know but the end of the day let's say he's at home no one looks no one sees so take it off but he was lacup and he said to himself I'm taking off a talis cotton that's ple this is house cotton is mutza I Vik is that a begg is mah not so outlandish says in the very end of me that a begg of shness is so he made an assumption that a talis cotton that's possible and he's probably right represents a bit of so is one is there's another isa that's what he wanted but the is he's probably wrong because there's one major difference a begg is awesome for all this begged is for him. if he has a friend that wants to borrow this talis cotton. So you can't only three corners. Do you forget the says a a begged sh is from. So you know what comes out this this broken is it's but since it has amp of it's not what's someone else and this I saw he was asked this but he has a more than what I said but I think this at least would be a good listen itself it's a begam and last but not least this is certainly a contemporary shilm there is one of the famous today who made a disposable ism sha now let me explain why he did it was sitkus he does hundreds of of meas in the hospital places that they're very concerned about it being sterile and the more you sterilize the meal knife the more blunt it becomes and you don't want to go and and violate the rules. So he designed a ismos basically is using a razor and each one is disposable. You use it and throw it out. So the the the frame doesn't have to be sterilized, but the knife the knife quote the the actual razor part which is inexpensive and he changes. He does he does me sometimes from morning to night in Russia for adults. I mean it's again it's something that's is is immense and the is is incredible. But anyhow, let's say he had a shabas and he has one of his ism disposables ready for action. Was it mukah? Is it muk after the midris? In other words, the the is one of the most challenging parts of a shabas brisk. What's the status of be? Because in the mish says is a kiss. But then again, it's to be used. So maybe it's not. But after the meal is over, it's back to kiss. So some say no once whatever. But did this beat the system? So this the said I mean I'm not a but he seems to he said I wouldn't give this is this disposable to anybody to play with first sharp and also I wanted to be sharp for the meal. I don't. So the same reason that a expensive ismmo is muk so is this. But the question is afterwards maybe it's no longer but but whoever said that missed the point this was as a >> is the worst form of but I was thinking but maybe this would be a type of that's because he knows that once he does the mil he no longer has any reason to be concerned about it's it's sharpness that you know that was is going to dissipate and disappear maybe it's not the only problem is we don't spine that by kiss but this something to think about I couldn't talk to you all right >> yeah put it to shame ignor today's Grace is sponsoring us. Call 7188518651. Email istiv.com or check out our new website.com. Now tell me Let's finish. >> Let's just call what we learned today. First of all, the word kali is most important in this sug if it's usable and it's used occasionally, it doesn't become available and it's not mut. are even because it's not a has a in middle of shabas can become if you have something that becomes tra or poisonous or or ifs shabas what what it means a shabas means that something and the went off then it doesn't remain because it's no but Again, something on Shabbat that became totally useless is a vad considered a roy bones that are the club are still considered because they're if you have a even if you can't use it stuck and he can't bring out a tea but it's not the one exception is a broken needle. Theor says the the psychology of people is you throw it in the garbage. You don't reuse it. So the fact that it's roy is not enough because it becomes that in the garbage even shabas does not become but sh in the garbage b on on ar of shabas becomes mukah on shabas itself is not mah you can take it out if you need it you threw out an old undershirt or any kali that's really full kali just it's you don't need it for whatever reason that does not become mahi even you threw out of shabas an interesting question became because it broke but it was somehold there's no a person that had a kiss and it broke it became it became a it's still it's still considered because of Shabas that became Shabas Because there's no food that's still edible is a kay is like a kal shell never becomes even in the garbage that it should be considered like for the dog it's not mah a box as is not mukah a delivery box a flattened box is a cliche we threw it out it comes mah a flimsy wrap a sugar packet all these type of things should be treated as mutzah when it's no longer used Gift wrapping is the same thing. Kishka salami plastic should be disposed of properly. It's unless it's a unless it's a if it's in a case of a real gra. A used tissue should be thrown in the garbage right away. But if someone finds one, he can move it al but it's tacking the of the person that left it there. A drink box, a yogurt 11. These things are in between. Probably yogurt 11 is a little better than a drink box because it's a little sturdier. But none of them are reused and that's the issue. Some say a kali shalom a yoga is kal shalom is never becomes mutzah. A bottle or a wine of wine, a water bottle, we we came out that it's a good s to say that it's in the garbage on a table is still mutah but in the garbage should be considered. Aluminum pan that's still usable is not in the garbage. It's like it's like a kay because it's so dirty. Moving a garbage can if there's either food or one make on a with a clean b usable bottle that might be matz laundry in a in a in a hamper is not m at all that became have used for someone else and disposable is and if it becomes after it's used to be over a open.