Inside the Mind of a Doctor-Philanthropist | Dr. Stephen Shaya's Story with Rabbi Shais Taub

Okay, welcome to another edition of the Soul Words podcast where I have interesting conversations with interesting people. Our guest today is a friend of a friend now, but now once I meet a friend of a friend, he becomes my friend as well. The friend of the friend is my dear friend Ley Shamtov from Friendship Circle of Michigan in uh West Bloomfield, Michigan. And what's interesting about uh West Bloomfield, about Detroit in general, is there is a Calaldian community. The Calaldanss are a community that goes back to what we call today Iraq, but really it's ancient Mesopotamia going back centuries and millennia and they have a very large community in Detroit. So, one of the leaders of that community is a friend of Ley. Ley brought him here to the Soulwards house. We went to the aisle. We had a very interesting time getting to know each other and part of it was filmed here as part of this podcast. Um, he's a doctor. He is a leader. Not just he he's he he has a medical background, medical training, but also he's a leader in uh developing medical technology and making it more accessible to people, which is really what it's all about, and a philanthropist, a visionary as far as helping the community [snorts] in many many ways. So, a very learned and uh accomplished, successful philanthropic individual, but most important to me, very down to earth, approachable, fun to talk to. I had a great conversation with him, Dr. Stephen Shia. Um, you'll check it out. And we want to thank our sponsors as always, the Reb's Choice, Purveyors of Fine Jewish Cuisine. Go to Rebchoice.com or look in the uh deli section of your fine Jewish grocerers or even not Jewish grocerers, but you know, in that little Jewish section, they have, you know, the hummus and the pickles. And you'll check it out. They have nice herring and white fish salad in. They have kick and crackers. It's it's it's good stuff. The Reb's choice and and they're dear friends of mine as well. Okay. Dr. Steven Shay, check it out. I I felt it was an amazing conversation. Very unusual, interesting stuff having to do with his what he's doing and with his family. And you'll see it. You'll check it out. We'll see you there. So we're here with my friend, my new friend Stephen Shaya from Detroit, Michigan. We're at the Soul Word Studios in Cambria Heights, half a block from the Aal. And we just visited the Ael. Your first visit to the Lavich is uh resting place. So we can talk a little bit about that. We can talk about some of the stuff that you're doing in Detroit and beyond. Uh what do you want to what do you want to jump into first? Well, I first want to thank you and uh Rabbi Levy for um my first visit to the OHAL. It it was a very special emotional moment for me and I've been studying more about Rata Reb's teachings especially leading up to this visit and um and I'm just in awe that somebody could provide these teachings and still 30 plus years later people are taking what he taught and and trying to give back to the world It shows me he was a great leader. He was a vessel for the light, vessel for God. And and I'm just in awe. So what you're saying, what you're describing um very much resonates with the way that I see things um as far as the Reb's leadership being direction and guidance that we can follow long long after his physical passing. And uh I would even say that with the guidance that the Reba gave during his time here in this world, we really have a game plan that will get us to the finish line. And before we were sat down to record, we were speaking a little bit about the finish line. But basically, we're going for the we're going for world peace. We're going for [laughter] the whole the biggest goal that could possibly be. >> Tunam. >> Tuna lam. Wow. Very good Hebrew. Excellent. Yeah. To rectify the world, to fix the world, to heal the world. Yeah. So, what what should we talk about? Um, you want to tell a little bit about your story, how you met uh the Shamtos and how you fell into this and the your uh the divine providence that led you into this connection? >> Yes, thank you for having me today. So, I'm a Iraqi Christian physician. My family owns a global healthcare company called J&B Medical. Started in 1996. As part of that, I have the honor and privilege of hosting a lot of folks from around the world. Uh I'm very active in the family office world, which is a world that uh I love hearing great stories about families doing uh amazing things hopefully to make the world a better place. Uh, one of those folks, uh, a gentleman named Jacob Merrmlstein came to visit me in Michigan once and he's, uh, Orthodox, he's kosher. And my go-to kosher place was not open at the time. >> So, I go online and I literally put in best kosher place in Detroit. >> Okay. >> And Soul Cafe jumps out. Um, and um, we go there and a divine spark. I was just in awe of the people, the food, the mission. I was in awe of the fact that someone like me who passes by there at least once or twice a week didn't know anything about what was going on and all the great things going on. Um, and I immediately asked Jacob to connect me with uh whoever put this thing together. And then I heard um I got connected with uh Ley and Basi and the rest is proverbial history. I just you know I'm just amazed at what they've done and you know how they started when they started and just something that inspires me. Um and I thought that you know after a lot of prayer and reflection they've been very gracious. My wife had the honor of hearing you speak about a parenting class, >> which I didn't know and I just found out that she >> she was bragging about this and she brought her friends and and u I probably should have listened more carefully when she came back with the lessons. Um but I just in awe of what can be done when good people and good intentions, you know, with faith and purpose, what can be done? And uh I guess because of that connection that started in Detroit, now you're you're in New York. And um I guess this is like the next phase or the next chapter as far as what's developing now. This is like a public things and we can edit anything out that you want, but >> no. >> You want to talk about like what's the next chapter? Like what's in store? What's happening? >> [clears throat] >> Sue uh I've been um I've been studying a lot about my modities and my modities talks about sadika and the different levels of charity and um quite frankly um I've haven't gotten the impact that I've been hoping with my kind of you know I'll say impact investments. Uh um >> sadly most of them haven't quite turned out the way I would have hoped. Yeah. >> And so I've been really studying my commodities and u talking to Levy about it and I really want to have a handful of partnerships and really the highest level of giving is to take out dependency and there's real partnerships and that's what I'm looking for and when I look at the whole uh Labadovich community and I see the kind of the impact meeting entrepreneurism and and you know, uh, no margin, no mission, but but you know, everything's based with intention. It's based with purpose, and I see kind of this this constant desire to keep getting better and keep bringing light to the world. Um, I I just inspires me. And so what I'm hoping uh my my audacious goal is to be a vessel of light where I can support folks that can handle the resources and do things the world desperately needs. >> You know, you talk about that that drive to maximize impact and you were mentioning earlier about the Debb's inspiration which is still inspiring so many people. That was really one of the hallmarks of the Debb's leadership was to constantly aspire for more. And part of that is because like like I was also mentioning that the Debb's goal was nothing less than the perfection of the entire world for for all humanity. And so until we reach that goal, it's like okay, you can you can enjoy your success for a moment, but then we got to keep building. We got to keep going. We got to keep what's what's the next thing? Where where are we taking this? So there's that there there's that fire to constantly be reaching the next the next goal. So uh definitely yes I I'm biased obviously as an insider but that is one of the things you see with people who are inspired by the reb is that idea of constantly growing and doing more. And I want to say that in studying more in preparation for my visit, the reb was very supportive of missiondriven businesses, you know, just because, you know, there was kind of a a holy religious, you know, faith-based intent. Businesses can be a very powerful tool in us achieving the highest and best use of our God-given talents. And that's something that I think the reb um you know studying that was like because I've always struggled with hey I make more money there was this I'm Catholic this Catholic guilt like wait you're making money and and and maybe you should be doing other things. No you can be making money and doing good simultaneously. And I I think the Rebe, you know, in some of the teachings that I was studying leading up to this really kind of me helped reconcile something that I haven't been able to reconcile for, you know, on my journey. >> You know, I I in this same studio, not on this side of the studio, in the other side of the studio, Thursday nights, I have a call-in show. People call in from all over the world, and whatever they want to talk about, they talk about. I had a guy call up the other week, guy from Kansas, and he was talking about how he had a spiritual awakening. He had recently, I think in the past couple of years, and that he he doesn't regret it. He he wouldn't change it for anything. But during that time of his spiritual awakening, he lost his job, he lost his marriage. Basically, his life fell apart. But he says, "But there are more important things than than material things, and it's all about the spiritual awakening." But his life fell apart and I I'm talking I mean he's a stranger obviously I I I have never met him and but as I'm speaking to him I I start you know suggesting things and seeing if it resonates with him and what I realized was that he had had this amazing spiritual awakening but he had never integrated it. So there was the spiritual there was the material like the soul and the body. Yes. >> And they were separate. >> Correct. There was no harmonization. >> That's right. >> And you know when we're talking about making the world a better place, some people live a good life so they can leave this world and go to heaven. But some people try to make this world more heavenly. That's that integration. So you know if you're drawn after the material to the exclusion of the spiritual, that's no good. But conversely, being drawn after the spiritual to the exclusion of the material >> exactly >> is equally problematic. That's exactly right. >> And we we need to integrate the two. >> That's exactly right. And I until I was reading the Revy's teachings, I I could never reconcile. I love your word harmonize that. And it's it's it's really helped me. And then the other thing that I did not realize is that, you know, I'm Iraqi Christians, you know, and when I think of, you know, Habad and Labadovich, you know, like I think a lot of people think of it's just, you know, like a Jewish thing. And I didn't realize till studying the Reby's teachings, you know, how he was, you know, really trying to bring people of all faiths, all, you know, different walks of life together. And he saw that the journey that he was taking could be that. And to me, that's so inspiring. And that message is needed now more than ever. The world's more bitterly divided religiously, political, socioeconomically. And I'm here and I feel like such a sense of community, such a sense of purpose. I feel like Mishbaka. I feel like I'm within my like a family. And and the world needs this. The world needs a sense of community, you know, and the Rebe understood that, you know, even when it wasn't popular. >> And it and and you like you say, it's so needed today because of of the division. It's interesting. I I think a lot of it has to do with the internet like the echo chambers just make people more entrenched in whatever they're already into the confirmation bias. But then the flip side of that is the internet is also this amazing tool where you could connect people from all walks of life from all places. And uh it's sort of like money. You know money can be the worst thing or could be the best thing. It just depends how you use it. Just a tool right? Um, and and it's interesting. There's a there's a teaching that when Moses had the commandment to count a census in the in the in the wilderness, he was the way they counted was through a flat tax. Everybody contributed a coin. So, you count the coins, then you get a sensus how many people there were. And it says that Moses didn't know what the the coin was supposed to look like. So God showed him a maesh a coin of fire. So a question is always like why why why fire? So there's one interpretation that money is like fire that fire if it's not directed it's destructive. >> Yes. >> But if it's directed then it's energy. So I think this true with you know technology it's true with money. It's true with all all the resources that exist in the world. Like if it's not channeled, it it'll go forbid devour devour devour us. But if we we channel it, then >> yeah, but again in studying again, you know, I'm I'm a newbie, but the rebby embraced television. You know, there's a lot of recordings. So again, ahead of his time, he saw it as a force multiplier. So I I you know, you see the wisdom that he had. Obviously, you know, it was, you know, divinely inspired, but, you know, I I just think, you know, he was ahead of his time in so many ways. >> Yeah. We're trying to catch up. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Really? >> By the way, before you were telling me, I don't know if you mind just share it, but I think it's fascinating. >> Um I I think people know that um there was a Jewish community, a very vibrant Jewish community in Iraq, specifically in Baghdad, other places as well. But um you mentioned that your family was involved with the Jewish community there. I think that's really amazing. You can share a little bit about that. >> Yeah. So um my parents have always there's always been a very strong Judeo-Christian connection, you know. Um my um dad uh grew up in Musul and there were about 800 Jews living nearby and his family and the Jewish community were very very close. Um my father and his father uh because of the political tensions were rising um they helped get uh many of these families out of Iraq when things were um starting to get very challenging. about what time are you? >> It would be early 1960s. >> Mhm. >> Probably 196263. My father ultimately left in 1966. He came um came to Michigan because he had some relatives and and um so my father never saw these folks ever again. So my mother uh used to go to Israel prior to COVID. She used to go every year for six years straight uh with her church friends. Um, oh my gosh. She go to the King David Hotel. She said the breakfast was was in was bomb. It was incredible. And she'd go to this dive place in Rahovven. She says the falafel's the best in the world. Like she would send me her like culinary exploits, which is little. I get a little jealous. I'm not going to lie to you. And um so she's at the Western Wall one day and uh she's speaking to my dad just checking in. They're daily. They check in in the morning, check in at night. And she's speaking um >> Oh, she was on the phone to him. >> She's on the phone. Yeah. >> Telling him about the falafel. >> Yeah. She's telling him how Yeah. bragging about all the food and and um and um and she's talking to my dad in Sudith, which is um Iraqi Christians. It's a it's a a dialect of Aramaic. She's speaking and this guy at the Western Wall is listening and you know, my mother um finishes up the call and this gentleman starts asking her questions. Where are you from? She says, "I'm from Iraq." Um, who's your husband? You know, he's from Musul. They put two and two together and it turned out that was the guy's family was one of the people that my father helped get out of Iraq. >> Wow. >> And so my dad got on the phone with this gentleman and they were talking and they remembered they had a lot of good times. It was like nothing time like you know it was like yesterday when and um he made uh my dad promise that he was going to come to Israel one day and he would visit of course COVID hit and then my dad passed away so unfortunately that never materialized but to this day what you know people talk about winning the lotto what are the chances 50 years later that somehow someway um you know they would get reconnected I mean, and and >> I didn't understand it until we visit the Ohal. And then I feel like it's like where heaven and earth meet and and it's and and so kind of that divine I'll call it intervention. Yeah. You know, and and it's something that um to this day my mom and dad, you know, my dad passed, but my mom and I talk about often. So, one of our goals was to go to Israel and meet with that family and of course hear some stories and and uh but it's just incredible like that just it had to be providential because there's just no way I don't even know what you would you know handicap something like running into them 50 years later and putting >> happening to overhear a phone conversation. I mean, yeah. I mean, it was like >> statistically it's no not >> Yeah. It's it's it's something beyond our understanding. And um and we've always uh my family I have part of my family is from Georgia, Russia, and they're all Jewish. And so the Shia family in Georgia, Russia is all Jewish. So, so there's a lot of like kind of um I'll say history I'm still uncovering. And and and uh it's it's it's such a blessing. I I tell all my Jewish friends I'm a wannabe, you know what I mean? But but it's uh it's um you know so getting to know uh Rabbi Levy and Bosi it's been kind of a way for me to to you know study and to learn and to grow and and the timing is is also on my end there's a lot of um uh transformative things happening on my end. So the timing couldn't be better. Do you want to let us in a little bit like >> So we're um I just I'll share one. Um so we're um in the process of building a um [clears throat] global life sciences biotech vertical. It's a 5.8 billion vertical where we're um building a whole integrated supply chain. Uh, one thing we learned during COVID that, you know, the global medical supply chain is like a proverbial eighttrack tape and and uh, >> meaning to say obsolete. >> Yeah, it's completely obsolete. And so, we're trying to make a proverbial iPhone. And what I believe our meaning, our purpose, our why is to make healthc care as affordable and accessible to as many people as we can globally. That's what God put us on this earth. We're stewards of those blessings. You give people health, you give them hope. You give them hope, you give them everything. By providing people affordable and accessible healthare, you can build much needed bridges across the religious, political, and socioeconomic divide. We can put the human back in humanity. We can put the care back in healthcare. >> And so that's one of several projects. >> Basically streamlining how healthcare gets to the consumer >> and making it affordable and and accessible. And right now unfortunately um for a lot of geopolitical reasons you know many things come through China and India. So we're building a whole supply chain that's it's independent of that not for any political reasons but just to make sure >> to help the end user have access. >> Exactly. >> It's incredible. And uh yeah nobody should need it. We don't want anyone to need it but if they do we want it to be accessible. Yeah. And you you I mean aside from your business connection to the medical I don't want to call the medical industry but the medical field you also have medical training. You're you're a physician by training. >> Yes. Yes. I've done >> that's in a previous life. Yes. Yes. YES. MY MY PERIOD. >> So my grandmother was a midwife. >> Uh she had >> we're back in Iraq. >> Back in Iraq. She had >> um 12 children. One passed. But when number 12 was in utero, uh her husband passed away. So she raised all 11 children on her own. Uh and the way she supported her family, she used to deliver babies and she'd go to their homes. Many time these folks, it didn't matter if they're they're Jewish or Muslim or Christian, you know, they didn't have hospitals back then. She would go to the homes, deliver the babies. Many times she came back and someone gave her a basket of food. It wasn't like they had money. Um, so she never had a lot of money, but but there was so much joy she had in giving and helping. And I never forgot that the servant leader's heart like the richness she had because it's kind of surreal. I run into people. Your grandmother delivered me. I mean, she delivered thousands and thousands of babies. And >> so you grew up with her. She lived in Detroit. >> Uh, she came to Detroit eventually. Um, bringing all her children with her. Um, you know, she didn't, you know, it was under kind of miraculous circumstances. she was able to even get out of there. Um but you know and >> she left before your father or after your father? >> Um she she after my dad went a year earlier and then um my um grandmother brought her children there and my mom and dad met in 1967. Um their stories they met at church but who knows it could have been you know hopefully. And um and um and then in uh they got married in ' 68 and I was born in 1970. So, but um we were very we you know my mom and dad didn't have much growing up but we're rich in family. We were rich in spirit. We always ate well for unfortunately that was kind of our thing that I literally having a good meal with friends and family was everything to us honestly. You know it's precious. So precious today but when I tell people we're serious about our hummus and our you know we're serious you know and uh um food is a big deal in our family. So, >> but you were saying you grew up seeing how your grandmother, the midwife >> Yeah. >> how much fulfillment that brought her >> and that inspired you. >> That inspired me. And my dad um became a physician as well. So, my maternal grandmother and my father, they had a servant leader's heart. They had they were givers. There was givers are happier. They had so much joy in giving. I never forgot that. I was always my dad would give you the shirt off his back and I'm like, you know, and growing up we didn't have a lot and I'm like, "Dad, um, you know, that's a lot for us." He's like, "Yeah, but think about it, you know, because it's a lot. It's more rewarding." You know what I mean? And and I never forgot that he and he kept everything very simple. like he very he was never into money or never into even though he ended up >> um being very successful that just the richness from giving the richness from sharing >> you know and something that so that's that I think drew me into health care to be you know yeah to be a giver to help to heal um but God had different plans I uh long story but I ended up um when my dad sold his business in 1996 six. He was retired for about five weeks and then my mother kicked him out of the house. She's like, "You need to go do something. >> Do something." >> So he started this little company called J&B Medical started in 1996 and um through a very series of serendipitous events. >> This was his retirement project. >> This was his retirement fishing. Our our global company was his retirement project. So um and I I was um actually with him for three years helping him and then um I went back and finished my training became family practice um occupational environmental health and then I never thought I'd work in the family business. Never. And then my dad called me in 2004. Um I actually I was I was making a lot of money. I was single and I'm like is this what life's all about? You know something was missing. And soon as I said that, literally the next day, my dad calls me up and son, we need you. And um I thought went back to help. There were there were some issues and I thought it would be just a couple weeks. This was in 2004 and I've been there ever since. 21 years. So wow, >> God God had a plan. And um Jane B is where opportunity and preparation meet. Some people say that's luck. I say that's blessings, miracles, great things happen. >> Jane B is a platform of purpose and possibilities. and we're just the stewards of the blessings. >> Wow. It sounds like big things are, God willing, happening and [sighs] which will enable you to help a lot of people both with what you're actually providing as well as uh you know when you're involved in good things that it brings other opportunities in its wake where you >> Amen. >> do more and more. >> Yeah. And I learned my lesson. I learned my lesson. I got to treat our impact investments like business. Like 100% these are partners. These are goals and objectives. We're in this together. You know, I I made a mistake on a few things where I just thought, hey, I'm doing this for for good, you know? >> Right. But yes, >> but you know what? Just like the, you know, the rabbi says and even some of your Instagram, it's not just faith. You know, you got to work towards its work. You know >> what's interesting is I've I've observed this phenomenon before of people philanthropists who they're philanthropists because they have money and they're money they have money because they made money and they that means they have a skill they need to know they know how to do it and then what's funny is often times in their philanthropy all of the acumen they have in the business world goes out the window and they just look at it like like you know like you say you're doing it for for the for the goodness out of your own heart, but at the end of the day, it's like, yeah, but impact, you're trying there's a PURPOSE HERE, RIGHT? It's very it's very interesting to me as someone who's involved like in the nonprofit world to see people who are really savvy when it comes to how to make money if it's, you know, in their in their area of specialization. But when it comes to philanthropy, it's like I don't even want this sounds crash, but like I see them throw away money and bet on losers. And it's it's it's interesting that like there's that gap. >> And you know what? You you just I fell into that trap. Um I fall into that trap. Uh and and I learned my lesson. >> What do you think it is if you like if people are listening right now who are who want to become givers on a serious level? What advice would you give? Treat it like business. You You have a plan. Everyone signs off on the goals and objectives. Here are the KPIs. And the number one thing, so I'll use my Christian in in the Bible in Proverbs 27:17, it says, "Iron sharpens iron." Real partnerships, you make each other better. And they're dynamic. You're not just sitting there, here's a check, and then oh, go have fun. No. So the I'm I learned my lesson. The the the thing is these are moving forward going to be real partnerships. And look, you know, I want to be a vessel of light, a less a vessel of good. And I want to use the resources and invest in real partnerships. And look, I I want these partnerships to grow. If you're just going to say, okay, this is what I'm doing, right? >> You know, you know, it's it's not about that. I don't care about my name on a building. I don't care like want to make a difference, you Know and I again studying the reb like really inspired me because you know he was all about you know talking about like how one candle in the darkness could make such a difference. one candle, you know, imagine if you can get a bunch of people coming together and you guys I saw the lamp lighter, you know, I love that, you know, I mean, and and you know, really I'm much more focused. I've made a lot of mistakes on that front and um you know, now I really want to focus with just a handful of people and go all in. >> God willing, you'll uh have the uh I mean, you were you at the Oel today and uh >> I didn't I'm not asking, by the way, what what you prayed for or anything. It's none of my business. I'll let you keep it private. Although, I have some suspicions that had to do with uh how you're going to use your influence going forward. So, >> yeah, I think uh you know, I think a lot about my children. My children are 12, 10, and eight. Okay. >> And I look at the rebi and I say he left the world a better place. you know, >> you know, it's incumbent on us. We have a responsibility to do the same. Now, we all have different god-given talents and gifts, but how can I make the world a better place for my children, for your children, for their children. It's a responsibility. It's a responsibility. You know, I think too many of us, I I don't think we were meant to be comfortable. We're supposed to work. We're supposed to get up every day and push the envelope. And that's what I saw from the rebay. The rebby to this day, you I love what you said. you're still catching up with all his ideas, all his So, so I think we're meant to push the envelope and I believe God, >> you know, if the vessel is there that you can't out give God the lights there, you know what I mean? >> You talk about making the world better for your kids. You said you were born in in 1970. >> Yeah. 197 >> I was born 74. So, we're both Gen X. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> So, I think you can relate to this. We were born at a time of prosperity. Now our parents for sure, the boomers [clears throat] even more so, right? >> Yes. >> And then you look at like generation, what do they call Gen Z >> and the opportunities are not so easy to come by today. And it's like, are we going to let this happen? Are we going to let this be that our kids are going to not have it better than every generation has to have it better? >> Amen. Amen. It's just like with my kids, you know, I I could never do what my parents did. They came here with nothing, right? Literally. >> I mean, they literally they sent me to good schools. >> And so, it's incumbent upon us to do better. I think the one thing I'm trying to teach my children is, >> you know, you know, with great blessings come great responsibilities, you know, and I know a lot of people say, "Oh, well, don't, you know, don't talk to your children about this. Don't do this." No. from minute one you you are not the one with a silver spoon in the mouth. You're not an ivory tower. You have a responsibility. God gives people you know you know what you what you know he gives you responsibility for those much is given much is expected. You know what I mean? And I want them to understand that sense of responsibility. And it's hard you know your parenting. I can't wait to to hear more about it's very hard to be a parent. And I always look at it from the lens of being a parent. Like what am I doing for my children, you know, and your children and their children. And I think the world needs to think more like that. We're too selfish, you know, like we're too selfish, you know? I mean, I think, you know, what we're like you said, oh, we have a great life, right? you know, go and and you know what about you know for our children and and I do worry too you know with this social media and with this technology you know never doubt the transformative power of human connection and I worry about how technology >> for something like this we can get the word out you know and and this is great but there's no substitute you know to spending time together there's no substitute with rolling up your sleeves you know And there's no easy way out on anything. Anything worthwhile, you got to work for it. >> The reason that we have this, the soul words house, this physical location is because exactly what you're saying. When I realized that I could just create content for the internet. I'm a huge introvert. Like I I'm so I don't like crowds. Like even small crowds. And I was like, "Wow, I could just make content for online and never have to be around people again." >> Right. >> And I realized, no, no, there has to be that in-person experience. Absolutely. That's why we created this physical space precisely because of that, that there should be a place to get together. And >> there's no substitute for that. The human connection, real human connection. I mean, the internet is a tool, but real human connection sitting together and >> Yeah. I think you know you can take the best of that but it's not a substitute. It's it definitely it's a great supplemental you know thing. >> I meet people through the internet that I would never have met in real life. >> Amen. >> But then it has to translate and by the way it has many people who I first met then because of technology then there was a real inerson meeting. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. So but I think we just have to have the mindset that understand it's a tool. It's not a substitute. I I ran into a couple kids the other day. Oh, I'm dating someone. I'm like, "You're dating someone." You know, they never actually met him. I'm [laughter] like, "Are you kidding me?" I mean, I'm like I'm like, "You never actually met him, but we're dating." >> Yeah. >> I was I I Sorry, I'm a little traditional. I I can't get my arms around that one, but but um >> Maybe they put on the the virtual reality helmet. [laughter] >> They did. >> Oh, that's funny. That's [laughter] funny, but probably more true than I want to admit. But uh but no, I think this is um I mean look at the rebby how many people he reached via television and until his day these teachings live. So there's definitely a place for it. But um but yeah, I just balance and I like what you said the harmonization. I love that word. You know, you're talking about body and soul and and the harmonization. I think that's the [snorts] key. Can you can you find that balance? Not many people do. You know, you know, it's it's elusive. I I'll be honest with you. I struggle with it. You know, I like to work a lot, you know, and sometimes the family suffers. It's not cool. And and you know, I haven't quite found the right balance yet, but nothing's easy. You got to keep working at it. >> Keep fine-tuning. >> Yeah. >> Keep adjusting. >> Yeah. Yeah. And keep interacting with people. >> Amen. >> Because it's our interactions with others that keep us on track. >> That's right. >> Yeah. Well, plus too, you know, this world is bitterly divided in so many, you know, politically, religiously, socioeconomically, but when you meet in person, it's a lot harder to dismiss them. You know what I mean? And and I think social media has become >> a substitute for honest discourse. You know, my late father used to say, "Hey, you know, let's have a tough conversation. Let's have honest conver and we don't have to agree on things, you know, but but at least you can respect each others. we're divine being on a human journey and and and I think that's some that's where like especially politically it's so easy for people to throw stuff out there but to sit down and actually have an adult conversation and try to find a common ground it takes work you know and I I feel less and less people want to do that and um and and and you know I I don't have to agree with you on everything I just want to understand where you're coming from and you understand where I'm coming from and then we could figure out a path forward, you know, like and and I think more of that needs to happen. >> It's interesting, you know, you talk about your career uh evolution, you know, used to practice medicine and then you verged into business. I used to be I still am to an extent, but I used to listen my my bread and butter was public speaking. I used to fly around and speaking. Yeah, that was like my main thing was speaking. Um, you know why I barely do it anymore? After 2020, the world changed. People got used to Zoom. >> Yeah. >> People don't make in-person events anymore. Yeah. >> I mean, they do, but not the way it used to be, >> right? >> So, people don't get together. I'm saying physically getting together in the same space. It's so drastically more rare today than it was even six years ago. >> Well, let's make one one of our, you know, I'll say take-home messages. Let's both commit to trying to make an effort to do more of that because getting you in I could I could tell you I have friends from all over the world, different perspectives. >> But I know if you sat down with any of them and talked about anything, you'd find a common ground. And so let's one thing let's make a commitment both of us is like let's try to do more of that and I know it's work and everyone's busy and it's not easy look part of Zoom it's convenient right you don't have to drive anywhere you don't have to fly anywhere but that's the problem it's too convenient nothing worthwhile is easy you know what I mean like I can tell you any Zoom I get you know I can make the best of it but there's nothing nothing that's substitute for in person ever in my in my world I'm old school so maybe some people, you know. So, I think we all have to make a commitment to to have more of those inerson conversations. It doesn't mean I mean the world is different now. It's not going to be 100%. But but you know, having someone like you like when my wife came to your uh parenting, she was like I mean that made a difference. You know what I mean? And I think hearing it because it's >> there's a another dimension in person that maybe Zoom doesn't quite have. But look, I get it. Not everyone can travel everywhere. Not everyone can do that. But I think there's opportunities that are missed. You know what I mean? >> There definitely are. You know, there's a dimension of the human connection that we cannot capture without being in physical proximity. And and it's there's something metaphysical to it because >> I really don't know logically why that should be, >> right? >> I think it's spiritual. I I logically it doesn't make sense. What's the difference? >> What's the difference? [snorts] Right? >> But there is a difference, >> right? Well, maybe you can maybe you can connect at a higher frequency. You know what I mean? Clearly. Clearly. You know what I mean? Maybe you can connect at a higher frequency. Um, you know, I I think, you know, for people that you know better, maybe it's, you know, obviously it's easier because they know you and but when you're making new friendships, new relationships, at some point there's got to be that in person. I mean, I believe, you know what I mean? So, I'm inviting you to Detroit. Let's do and and I'm you know that [snorts] that's one thing and let's get people together and >> let's solve the world's problems. >> You know I'm originally from Chicago. No way. >> Yeah. Detroit is for me. >> No way. Are you a Bears fan or are you a Lions fan? >> I am a Bears fan. >> Okay, that's okay. >> I told you I was born in 74, so the 85 Bears. >> Oh my god, what a team that was. Oh my god. I still remember the fridge. >> If you if you want to really start fighting, let's talk about the Bulls versus Pistons rivalry. Oh man, one of the bad boys and Michael Jordan. Oh my god, that team they had with Dennis Rodman and uh >> but Dennis Rodman okay because he became a Bulls. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, but that team they won 70 what two games that was like one of the best teams. I mean the Bulls >> you were a Pistons fan. >> I'm a Pistons fan but you know how could you not be a Michael Jordan fan? I mean that guy I mean the best of all time. I don't care what when I hear about other like no offense to LeBron >> Michael Jordan that was I mean one of a kind, you know what I mean? and the Bulls and Phil Jackson and they they were that was the Pistons Bulls rivalry is one of the >> one of the best. Oh my gosh. >> rivalries. >> But we had a good run. We had a good run. But that that Bulls team that won six titles in what nine years, 10 years that that's going to be that's one for the record books. You know, >> Chicago is a great town, too. Although, I think the Lions uh I hope the Lions have a good year this year. We'll see. So, >> I haven't been following uh football. >> All of a sudden, I'm like, forget getting in person. We're going to do Zooms. Now we're talking football. [laughter] No, I'm [clears throat] teasing. I'm teasing. Uh, you know, I'm a long-suffering Detroit uh the Lions of Been a long time. That that that 15 and that team, the um Bears team that won the Super Bowl. My god, that was probably to me the best team of all time and their defense. Anyway, we could talk football all day. >> Yeah. Oh, [sighs] um, Tigers. [laughter] >> Well, you know, we, uh, you know, we have this guy, Scooble. Um, we're a, you know, small market team and, uh, you know, it's it's, it's kind of sad in baseball, you know, these small market teams, it's so hard, you know, it's uh, >> yeah, it's all about the the money now. So, basically, if you're not New York or LA, then you can't afford the talent. >> Well, are you Cubs or White Sox? So, I'm going to tell you something very interesting. Tell me. Okay. And you'll test this out with all your Jewish friends from Chicago. >> I want to hear this. >> Overwhelmingly disproportionately. >> Jewish Chicagoans are Cubs fans. >> Really? >> Yes. Overwhelmingly? >> Really? >> Very unusual to meet a Jewish Socks fan. >> Really? >> Yes. >> Wow. >> I think it has to do with Northside, Southside, but that's what I'm tell. Yes. >> No way. Well, that Cubs when they won the World Series, I was in game [laughter] seven. That was incredible. And u that was probably the best World Series I've ever seen. I mean, that when they won that and they broke the the broke the you know, whatever how many years it was where but they're they've been pretty competitive. They've had a good run. I went to a game at Wrigley Field. It is like you feel like you're going to a mecca. I mean that place >> I mean talk about what baseball's about. I mean they, you know, like the character Wrigley Field. I went to a game at Fenway recently, too. I mean, these old I love tradition and I'm a tradition guy and uh anyway, but uh but anyway, it's uh it's fun. Sports is fun. You know, the language of sports is, you know, sports, maybe music, some of the few things that bring people together. Maybe there's more ways to work around um some of these uh you know like I Ray Lewis a famous linebacker for the um >> Baltimore Ravens, you know, we're doing some things with him on mental health screenings. Yeah, we're screening schools. We're about to do a 100 schools in Baltimore. Screen the kids from 6 to 12. I think you know >> these folks are blessed. You know, you should see Ray people idolize the guy. How do we leverage that for good? You know, I'm always thinking, you know, so, you know, food. >> We got a few ideas. We got in-person meetings. Yes. Leveraging sports and other common interest things and >> Okay, we got we got our agenda coming. >> We got a lot. We got [laughter] a Hey, I told you don't give me a microphone. We'll be talking for a while. But I'm I'm really grateful for for you spending so much time with us. >> My pleasure, my honor, and God willing, um, good things will will come from this. >> They will. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, my friend. God bless you.