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[Music]
Hello everyone and welcome back to
inside art scroll where the books you
read and the people who write them come
to life. Today I am privileged to be
joined by Rabbi David Sutton author of a
new translation and commentary on the
basi on aavis. Thank you, Rabbi Sutton,
for joining us once again. Thank you for
inviting me. It's not the first time
you're here. You're uh what I would call
a prolific author by Hashem. You've put
out many best-selling art scroll works,
the latest of which is your commentary
and insights on the Balevi on a I must
mention that it follows the immense
success of your commentary on the Balev
on. It's a similar style. another essay
of Dave Halevi Salvich of Brisk the
Balei. Uh talk about your experience of
putting out the Bale and the reaction
that you got to that that I imagine was
what was the impetus that you should
continue kind of this series of working
on the essays of the Bay Halevi and
bring it out to the public. So as is
well known the Balevi was a great rasha
what's called a great London and in a
very short and succinct fashion he
captures topics in a way that I have
never seen and he's well known for his
respanza he's well known for his
commentary on the Torah but because
these specific essays were in manuscript
form literally in a suitcase till the
late 1900s over 100 years after he
passed away the they're not wellknown
and when I stumbled upon the essay on
bet and started giving sharim on it and
it just slowly developed into this safer
now there are people that are aware
pamphlets were circulating on bas on but
they're not aware that he had more than
one essay in that manuscript there's
actually a lot in that manuscript it's
in the back of one of the bases on the
Torah that most people might not even
have and the next one is the essay on a
and My hope is that what the Basavian
Bet did for Bet the Basian Avis will do
for Avis. Well, the style that you used
in the Bavian Bakan really resonated
with people. It's the it's a it's a
simple elucidation. So, you you're
explaining the text in a way that anyone
could understand, men, women, children,
no matter what their age or background,
they could open it up and start studying
it. And then you have insights on bottom
which give a little more background and
explanation. And then you have amazing
appendixes and in this volume you also
have a whole section of stories. So it's
it's a very rich reading experience.
It's not just a a dry read of an essay.
It really there's so much I'll call it
flavor in what you did over here. Yeah.
I I I would tempt anyone to open up this
book and and and just not be drawn by by
the message. It's very universal. It's
it's very uplifting. It's very positive.
uh um just that feeling that you get
when you read it. And obviously as well
same same thing like you're saying it
really is it looks like a safer but it
reads like a novel. It's it's something
interesting that it's I actually was
flattered. I got a call two days ago
from Sim Kabun that he had just gotten
the safer and he he loved it. So you're
talking about a great post in Lakewood
at the same time you know a young lady
told me you know wow you know I'm really
enjoying it. So it's really something
for the masses. The basi has a certain
um interesting that the safer was
supposed to come out before pesak was
ready to go and due to certain marketing
decisions they decided let's wait till
after the hagada season and we'll sell
it afterwards and it went to print
literally on the basis yard site. Wow.
It was in dollar it was being printed
here in art skull. So there's a the bas
is definitely behind this. No question.
And there's no coincidence. So,
absolutely. But it's really it's an
unbelievable uh you alluded to before
which I think it's worth taking a moment
to talk about. Um and I became familiar
with it somewhat thanks to you not long
ago. I wrote up uh in the an interesting
historical background of these
manuscripts that the Bay Helvi wrote
uh in the 19th century. And the
manuscripts had sat in a suitcase and
but the story about how the manuscripts
got out of Europe to America is alone an
unbelievable uh tale of Ashkah. Just
comment on that for a moment. You could
call it a mini kre yams because the
basy's youngest son of who was 13 when
his father passed away was the one that
inherited these for some reason didn't
go to or any of the other children. And
on his way out to America, he's taking
these seven with him, his last remnant
of his father. And he's stopped at the
Russian border, questioned only because
his name was
Salvetic. And there was a communist uh
officer who was left as an infant in
Rabim's house because Rabim's house was
just in Hefer Risharab. His parents left
him in the house. Rabim raised these
orphans. He eventually became a
communist because he wasn't raised by
he. He was just in his house. When he
heard the name Salvetic, he says, "Are
you any relation?" He said, "It was his
brother." He went through all the
borders with the swarm and everything.
So that was one creus yams. Then when
they were in England, they were ready to
go to the boat and they realized that
the the the where with the getting out
of the hotel and they realized that the
uh the suitcase wasn't there and they
traced their steps back and they
realized they forgot it in the trunk of
the carriage, the horse and buggy and
now how you going to find it? So Simka's
son who was um named after the Basvi of
Yoseph Dove, he went to the police
department, found that there's uh
pictures of the wagon drivers. He went
through over 2,000 licenses, recognized
that the wagon driver, went to his home,
and in the in the the trunk, so to say,
of the horse and buggy was that
suitcase. And his father said, "I'm not
leaving the country if I don't have that
suitcase." So this is like literally a
miraculous trail like the garra
says Hashem gave his world to watchmen
and for some reason Hashem decided to
let it out. Now, right, if you think
about it over the over the decades, over
the centuries, over the millennia, how
many precious manuscripts
of have gotten lost? And like you said,
for for whatever reason, this the these
manuscripts had the special seat desaya
really through miraculous sequence of
events to be extricated and and to be
saved from the inferno that ultimately
consumed uh much of Europe and came over
here. And what's just as incredible is
that till I think it was 1985 and we
discussed this previously the manuscript
of BI
on was not revealed to the public.
Right? It's only because Rab Salvich
called and his brother of Sim and he
asked them do you have anything left in
the B? He says we have some we have some
things and he put in the back of one of
the farms. So it's a miracle. I have a
hunch again basian baken came out right
at the beginning of co with the world
needed baka meaning the arts school
version the arts school version right
that that you know that I don't think
close to 20,000 copies sold I don't know
if any other version in English sold
that many and um the obvious is coming
out now and I have a hunch now as well
why it's coming out postco you'd like to
hear I don't know yeah sure I'd love to
hear but before you get to that I'll
I'll preface your comment with a with a
common obser observation. You know, you
you put up a salvia on it. It sold
phenomenally well. You also not long
after put out um daily dose of a safer
based on the
shaken sells. People want they look at
it rightfully uh as a as a conduit as a
way of magic button. Yeah. You know, and
and is not a simple matter. Amuna and
having amuna perhaps is a little easier.
Really relying on their and not relying
on anyone else is is a harder uh a
hotter level to reach but something that
obviously every person must strive for
and talks to people. So
bakan came out also at an opportune time
people looking for in that realm in that
area. uh is as an exciting topic perhaps
doesn't have that allure of you know
people wonder why aav is obviously it's
important it's a mitzvah in the and it's
an important topic to know but um you
know how do you see that connection
between and and if it talks to people in
a similar fashion well like you said uh
beten could be selfish right and
selfless, you know, you're loving
somebody else. So, it's harder uh does
bring because if you really believe
Hashem's controlling the world and
relying on him, there's no reason to
dislike anyone. Exactly. It says,
"There's no such thing as it's it's for
a reason. You feel that someone did
something wrong to you or whatever it
may be." But that's why some someone
commented to me the the greatest muster
safer is a safer on because if you
really master I'm just you know segueing
from what you just said then suddenly ka
and tya and covid and all those those uh
kind of negative attractions suddenly
fall away because if you have true why
you running after cover everything comes
from why you envious of your fellow if
everything is coming from the one above.
So it's a ve very very you know
important point to digest but because
people you know do need incentives. It's
interesting in the back of the book in
the appendix section the first appendix
is called uh incentives and benefits
means there are hashem will love you uh
hashem treats you accordingly and uh so
on. So there is definitely a a uh
benefit there is a personal benefit.
actually bring very interesting
observation from the from the BI and
then you add something from the that you
know after a person goes to the next
world we're going to be asked certain
basic questions one of which is Yeshua
if we yearned for the ultimate
redemption and he says in a in a really
a fascinating observation that really
included in the question of Yeshua is
did you have a cisero because a
prerequisite for meriting the ultimate
goolah
is what's keeping us back. So we're
going to ultim we're going to be asked
Yeshua one of the components of Yeshua
is did you master in order to enable the
Yeshua. That's part of yearning. If you
claim to be yearning for the Yeshua but
at the same time you're harboring
negative thoughts towards fellow Yidden
and then you're holding back the Yeshua.
It doesn't work. So I I thought that's
very you know that's an interesting
observation on on the part of Bas Levy.
We spoke about timing. It came out you
know the week of the base the day of the
Basy's yard site but also the time of
the year we learn
now explains why do we learn now and he
comes up with a novel explanation
there's different the standard
explanations he says
that it means we're supposed to be
redeemed in Nissan Nissan passed and we
weren't redeemed. We're supposed to ask
why not and the answer is obviously
because sin is still here. So therefore
work on a scroll now and learn perks.
But it means this is the time of the
year to learn a so it works out you know
right it really does. Um going through
the
manuscript did you did you have any
anything to work with because like we
mentioned before this is an essay of the
of the bas that really was kind of
hidden. It's in the back of Bra.
I don't know are there any other works
on this particular essay of the BV? What
I what I did was I really, you know,
read every word and stopped on every
word. I'll give you an example. And like
every word is packed here. Um, as I'm
flipping through, I noticed my
father-in-law's essay that we shouldn't
forget about. Of course, you mentioned
that Rabbi Satan, your father-in-law,
Rabbi Nosen Sherman, wrote the overview
to this uh cafer. So he writes over
here. You have to arouse your heart for
love to
everybody. And if you didn't arouse a
love in your
heart, you did not fulfill the mitzvah.
So again, similar to how he starts off
the the essay on is, you know, he starts
off it's a mitzvah by the B that that's
that's it. This is this is a positive
command. This is this is this is this is
an aster there's no difference right and
that's one of the interesting we bring
down over here from the shab that he saw
someone had a tear in his clothing a
small tear before he told the man about
the tear he said
I'm not going to say I'm doing the
mitzvah and then he told him you have a
small tear and a small tear can become a
big tear sew it up and he says I had the
same feeling of happiness as when I put
on my tilene in the morning wow That's,
you know, that's that's that's obvious.
But you have to arouse it in your heart.
It's it's it's a positive. You have to
do something. It's not passive. Oh, you
know, I like everybody. No. And
furthermore, it's your heart, which is a
big discussion. Can I fulfill Israel
without doing anything? The bas holds
yes. It's a discussion. We're going to
go through the the insights and the
footnotes as to, you know, but clearly
the bas holds yes. You could sit in a
room. Furthermore, the the uh altar of
Kelm also in the insights says footnotes
he says that if right now I'm thinking
there's I don't know how many million
Jews in Israel now I think seven and a
half million 8 million and I close my
eyes and I honestly love every single
Jew I get 8 million separate mitzvah
and he says because this the Yates
always wants to take away from us the
big mitzvah and that's why he's
attacking that and the opposite we also
quote there from the safer abris a great
rabbi from that if I hate a sect of
Jews and there's a 100,000 of them so
that's 100,000 negatives right so
there's a lot of depth and a lot every
word of the bas is weighed and it's it's
a you're learning and no difference than
if you take out the shall chew his b and
you got to work on it this's father
people work on every word he didn't
write a word that he wasn't thinking
about bas is no different. Right. It's
interesting what you're saying because
really these essays of the bas we would
call them hashkafic works right but the
basia as you said was the rash lambd the
the
the master it's all looked through the
prism of also right meaning what's a
mitzvah what's not and what are the
parameters of the mitzvah uh but you
bring up a good point you know we think
of and as the you know uh doing you know
filling up aum room in in a hospital
which is amazing being a member and
helping someone with their flat tire.
But as you say, the BI brings out that
you don't have to be on site engaged in
that public mitzvah to be Makima.
Obviously, Sel, it's very much a very
personal internal
endeavor. Um, but speaking of the
Baley's essays, there is another essay I
just want to mention. The Balei wrote
three essays. One on, one on, and one on
Anova. Yes. on humility uh which I
imagine you'll probably work on started.
Are you ready started? Started. Yeah.
Wow. Okay. You waste no
time. But it's it's it's just uh it's
fascinating to observe that of all the
topics that the BI chose outside of his
response and outside of his commentary
um on the Tyra that he decided to write
essays on these three particular topics
that obviously he felt that he had
something to give over to Cla Israel.
I'm just curious as someone who's now
gone through extensively through two of
his essays, why do you think that is?
Well, there's definitely a connection
between these three things.
being the starter. Like we said, without
you can't love and without you can't be
humble because if you think you do
things, hashem is lovish. Only Hashem
can be arrogant or proud because only he
does things. We don't do anything.
There's an instant interesting line of
the um the basi once asks somebody um
what are you doing like you know man
says I I I'm uh work in sugar
production. So again he says what are
you doing? He said I work in sugar
production. The third time like B lost
his mind. He says when I ask you what
you're doing I mean what are you doing
for
your so if I ask you what Hashem's doing
with you that's sugar. This is what
you're doing. So you can't become
arrogant if your attitude is right what
am I doing? I'm struggling through adaf.
You know that's what that's what I'm
doing. What's Hashem doing with me? You
know beautiful. when you went through
this this essay of the basi were were
there any anomaly something that you
came across that was was an eyeopener to
you uh besides what you mentioned before
which I think is is important about
every every year there's a separate
mitzvah of and how you could do it on
your own it's not something that has has
to be publicly displayed anything else
he has he has another like alum of art
on when he's talking about the structure
of the bas mikdash so he says let's say
um you decide to give me this cup as a
gift. Okay, you gave me the cup as a
gift. Now, let's say you didn't like me
that much and decide I'm not giving it
to you as a gift. I'm not going to give
it to you. Okay, once you gave it to me
already, once you gave it to me, taking
it back is means you're really upset
with me, right? If you decide not to
give it to me to begin with, no. But to
take it back, says by Hashem, there's no
difference. There's no difference
between not giving and taking back
because Hashem is constantly pumping
energy into creation. So there's no
difference to him not to give and taking
back as both the same thing. And
therefore he says we have to view not
being given the basik no different than
being taken away from us. So he's like
there it's more developed there. But I'm
saying everything is with a you know
like with with a lumbus alumnus right
he's even though I mean kazal say that
every d but I'm saying bring he brings
it out and he goes further and he says
every generation as time goes goes on
the base destroyed this year but look
the world that he brought us into means
he brought us into a world of iPhones a
world of technology the was into this
world look at the look at the not not
aban of a thousand years ago we had we
had tanam and amor It's a newbin. It's
almost like the destruction is reborn.
It's a more decadent world. So, it's a
bigger. Look at the world that you we
came into as a like he he takes
everything and he just gives it more of
a you know something you could hold on
to. And that that's part of the flavor
of the of the Balevi. It's a it's a it's
a rich reading and learning experience.
Um I if there was a takeaway from the
basel's essay on ais because there's so
much to unpack as far as this safer is
concerned it's you know people are going
to read it and sometime it's to fast
it's like so much and each of us on our
own personal level have to work just
like onen you don't go from zero to 60
it's it's a gradual process and it's
also something uh we spoke about how
needs reinforcement every day because
we're surrounded by a world that's so
tea and histadas and we're so immersed
in that world of okay what we do is
going to bring that effect the cause and
effect it's like we're drowning in it
that's I saw that says that because
we're so surrounded by that
we have to really learn for an hour a
day I saw brought down that we really
should be spending an hour a day
learning to counteract everything else
that we see the entire day with
also it seems that in the created as
you're talking I thought of hot off the
press okay go ahead
so we say it's brought down think it's a
zar you have to cover your eyes what I
have to cover your eyes for I once heard
because everything you see with your
eyes is counter
to to hashem it's all contrary to hashem
But the go of illness as I've always
used to quote the beginning
is I can't say unless I'm could be
doesn't say you you say and then you
cover your eyes when you say which mean
that everything around you is also
contrary to so you have to both those
are the two forces that the world are
saying is that don't love your friend
you you know right I you're saying that
even that component of being part of a
unified cla we're also constantly
tested. Yes. Um and it may not be
necessarily in that ne you know we think
of really hating someone but maybe in a
in a in a jealousy form you know that
type of lack of a where maybe we don't
the next year that he should be mat
I said over a vart not long ago
about that the ultimate it's a longer
it's a longer stickle but the the the
main v is that the ultimate tyan is from
Roberto Pavarski said The yalut says
that the reason why was called the was
for two demonstrations. Number one
because he the tyra was given to him and
he shared the tyra ku with Israel and
also when he
benched as the future leader of Israel
told him to put one hand on Yeshua and
he put two hands. So Frector Bur
Pavarski, how is that a demonstration of
Tyvian? You know, if if I have $100 and
I give it to you and now I don't have
those $100, that's a tal someone with a
good eye. But with two hands on Yeshua
blessing him, that's that's a TV or
sharing the Tyra
with didn't lose anything. So he said so
beautifully that a true is someone who
wants the other person to have it as
good or better than he did. So when
Rabenu benched Yeshua to be the future
leader of Israel, he benched him that
you should be as great a leader as I if
not greater. And the same thing with
sharing with Kai Israel. He wanted CL
Israel to and to grow in Tyra as great
if not greater than he. Her brings it
out in a very human way. You know, you
go over to someone and you ask him about
his friend, about his house, his car. He
says, "I don't mind if my friend has a
house as nice as mine or a little a
little less, but not nicer." You know,
that that's the human condition. The
human condition is we don't want others
to have it as good or as or better than
we do. And that's part of a I think
we're surrounded by that. when we live
we live in a community there's there's
we'll call it competition you know about
where people are in in in in different
stages uh and that's really where a
havoc plays such an important role of uh
you know us not just forgiving someone
but loving them so much that we're happy
we're happy we're not just you
know begrudgingly right taking
satisfaction in their success that's
part of realis All it's a real avoid
right talking about Barl Pavarski the
last in the back of the book there's
gdollum stories separate section on
besides the actual book and the appendix
there's also a section on uh yamovven
throughout the year obviously always
goes through the year and there's
there's a good story how the stories in
here are off the charts so the last
story maybe you could I don't know if
you heard this this is not in print is
about Pavarski I heard this from the
schmita farmer from uh Karan Ashvia
stayed in my house and he was in Chicago
and he met Rabel Pavarski and he said my
name is is is a kak he says kak I knew
your father no you know my father this
guy was a you know borderline you know
modern Israeli farmer his father says
yeah he learned in panovich yeshiva he
says no you got the wrong he says
no says he says yeah he came to my
yeshiva for a year and he goes back to
his father and his father said that love
of the town told my parents who were not
that firm I have your son has to go to
yeshiva they sent me to panovich really
the yeshiva kana for for a year I wasn't
happy and yeah of course I know a barrel
wow and they ended up doing the shmitaar
barrel did thear with this this farmer's
this the father's old 40 years before
and he remembered the person that's wow
that's that's an avis every talmet is
like a child you know that's incredible
uh any final thoughts thoughts about
this? Uh two final thoughts. Number one
again the overview. Okay. And number two
is why now? So talk about the overview
for a second. So the overview is written
by none other than my esteemed father
Laura by Nusen Sherman and he's uh the
Shane and Veron Mu. It's a he hasn't
hasn't lost his touch. Has not lost his
touch. Beautiful beautiful classic by
Nusen Sherman overview that you know
Clyasol came to love his overviews. I
think they're working on a book all of
his overviews put together in one and
it's just it's something to to start off
a good appetizer to wet your appetite.
And the last point is why now? So my
last trip to I went to visit different I
went to Rabbi Pollock who is a um
Mashkatka he's in his 90s together with
Abdul Landau and I asked many Gdoll the
same question not for now all different
answers. Post Corona is a lot of um
emotional uh illness and challenge
anxiety and depression is on the rise
and it's it's it's well known that the
numbers of these things have I asked him
you know what's a what's a Torah way to
pick somebody up from the anxiety and
depression and he told me there's a puss
in which he gave a innovative
explanation may how pretty how sweet aa
love betanugim from all of the
delicacies there's nothing more
delicious than love. There's nothing
more delicious than loving somebody
else. He when a person's down and
depressed, they'll eat ice cream. They
want to get some gishmach to pull them
out of there, but they don't realize
like Aaron Carter says, it just puts you
more into depression. Now you just get
more. He says the way to instill and
pull a person out of his depression is
by loving somebody else. A mother's love
for her child, a Reb's love for her
student, a love for for the Bria. If you
love somebody, there's nothing more
delicious than loving somebody. I love
what you're saying because when I
interviewed Rabbi Makovsky about his
book, Livingass and one of the things I
wrote in the forward to that book, which
I think applies here, and I think you'll
agree, I wrote that as much as it does
for the recipient, it does so much more
for the giver because it transforms who
you are. When you become a giving
person, you it it it changes
you. Is not about the other person. It's
about what a world does to you as a
mench, right? That's kind of what you're
saying about what's so delicious about
we we being corona, we didn't have a
chance to love our friends. We were cut
off. We never have a chance to love
Hashem. We couldn't come to sh. And
that's why we're suffering. And I think
that's why Hashem sent us and now we
need to be to connect to Hashem. We need
a to connect to our friends. Well, I
think this safer is going to help us do
that. Uh it's I highly recommend it to
everyone watching. They should pick up a
copy, buy one for themselves and one for
their friend. Beautiful, right? If you
love your friend, what are you going to
give him? The ultimate gift. This is it.
The a book on a beautiful. But really
incredible work, incredible job, Kala
Kavote for for your sat everything you
do in in the Syrian community and really
beyond um each work of yours. You seem
to be like fine wine. You're getting
better with age. Thank you. And uh it's
it's an honor to speak to you once again
and we look forward to on on Anova to uh
many other works that you're working on.
So keep up the wonderful aides. Thank
you so much. Thank you.
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