Inside ArtScroll - Season 4 Episode 21: Shmuel Botnick

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today I am privileged to be joined by Ribmo Botnik a noted author and the writer of a brand new biography about Revnata Greenblat. Thank you for being here. Thank you. Uh since you're you're a resident today of Cincinnati, correct? So that's right. Uh we appreciate you coming out to the tri-state area for this conversation. Uh this new book of Aravnata is is getting a lot of attention. People are very excited. I know you put your heart and soul into this project and you have a lot to share about it. So we're going to talk about this book about a very very unique person. Um when we were sch smoozing before this interview you know you're talking about hernata was really unlike unlike anyone um both in the rabbitic sphere both in the world of in just in everything that he didn't represented ribbon was very unique but just for a moment before we get into it some people may know your name from Mishbah magazine you're a prominent writer there um talk about yourself just tell us who you are and how you got to this stage in life as as a as a writer of such a biography, right? Yeah. My story is not nearly as interesting as um so I grew up in Toronto. Um lived there until I got married basically. Um then so I mean if you want to know my whole educational background so I went to Wait, where did you learn? So I learned in well school is in in Toronto and then there's yeshiva Kaplan yeshiva. Sure. Then I went to Navaminsk for bass mish there after that BMG then got married for a bit and then I moved to Cincinnati. Mhm. Now I will I'm not going out on a limb to say that writing today is a lost art. Um and someone to to be a writer of your caliber is is rare. I mean it's just a fact. So where did someone like you get that skill? Yeah. Um, is that something you always aspired to be? I I always wrote. I I can't say I aspired to be a writer on a professional level, but I always wrote to the point I remember my second grade teacher um like calling me to the side. She gave me a notebook. She said, "I want you to fill this up with stories every day. Write a story. Bring it to me and I'll I'll mark it." Well, oh, I always wrote um for the originally my my main writing was like poems and song. I I remember like I used to write like a little poem by everyone and anyone in my class to this day people remember them. Mhm. Um yeah, Journeys was a very big in fact. Uhhuh. Very very big. It was very much part of my life. You're saying as from a musical standpoint? Not musical. From the from the lyrics. We like I would study the lyrics like be my them like a like a suga. Uhhuh. I mean you grew up in Toronto. Do you ever get to speak to AB? Yeah. Not not so much. We don't live near each other like we um so that was really the whole like first part of my writing wasn't so much writing in a conventional sense. It was a lot of you know in camp. I was always a big songwriter. Um, I didn't get into into write real writing till until later. I wrote one article for Mishbaka that they liked a lot. And how many years ago are we talking? A while ago. So it's probably seven years ago. Oh, it's not so long ago actually. Yeah. So it was it was actually under very tragic circumstances. What happened was I had a very close friend who who lost a child like a crib death. So like it's very emotional and I had no way to express it right. So I guess the natural writer in me was just I wrote it up. Mhm. And the article is called um solace of silence like the the way you could you could give by by basically not saying anything or and that I submitted that and that was published that was the first thing that was ever published and that's when I started getting into it. [Music] Um, interestingly, I moved to Cincinnati and punked one of the big editors from lives in Cincinnati and she's like a neighbor of mine, which that's real. Mhm. And so she started, she already knew my name from that article, started sending me other other work and that that's when I really got into writing uh ultimately to to join the editing team. Did did you have anyone who was coaching you or teaching you along the way or did you kind of uh formulate your own style? Right. So So in terms of you asked me about the skill, it comes my very naturally. My father is an incredible writer. His father was an incredible writer. All my siblings are writers. Mhm. Um so I don't take too much credit for just having the a knack for it. In terms of style, I will I would credit Surly Besser almost entirely. Um because surely really branded um his he branded something that never really existed before. I don't think people will realize that he's really a pioneer in terms of he created a level of professional writing that has the shivish tone to it. Right? There was always we always had very professional writers. Right? But if you go through that site every I I've never done it, but go through every single Jewish observer article, you'll never find the word like grata in it. Right? It's just that wasn't considered professional. But really created a mahalik where you could still write on very very high caliber but infuse it with like in a language that really expresses our culture and and that very much spoke to me and honestly I don't think I would be inspired to be a writer if I couldn't do that because that's my background. Mhm. And I want to be able to express myself in in in my language. I don't speak English. I speak Yeshivish. You know that that's if I if I can't write yeshivish, I wouldn't want to write, right? Because it would be entirely academic. It would be highly sophisticated. And speaking of academic, if I could reveal this, from what I understand, you dabbled in a in a law career for for a short period of time. You are a you are an accredited attorney. I'm licensed in Ohio. Yeah. In Ohio. You you took the bar. took the bar, passed the bar, practiced for two years, and then bounced. You left your law career behind. Yeah. And now you're writing books for art school girls. I never looked back. Um, no, you you are correct. And I'll tell you, the law career had nothing to do with with writing at all because I only practiced um transactional. I did corporate real estate, corporate healthcare, or commercial real estate, I should say. Corporate healthcare. There's no writing at all. It's all super formalic um contracts and purchase agreements that are all pre-drafted. you just put in new numbers basically. Um, so there's very little writing skill. Law school had a lot of writing in it. Um, and I made sure only to take the classes that were writing related um, as opposed to let's say like bankruptcy law and things like that. I never got less than an A minus on any paper I wrote. Um, which really, you know, that is very much academic writing. So, I guess I still have the skill for it, but it was not fun to write. I would never pursue a career in writing that kind of stuff. It's just it's boring. And again, it's not expressive of who I am. And and writing is really all about expression. You can't write something you don't feel. Um so if you're not feeling it, then I there's no there's no enjoyment. There's no stimulation in writing it. But tell me if I'm correct. Writing a biography like this one on ribnata is really a totally different endeavor than just your creative writing where you're enjoying the writing. It involves tremendous amount of research. Um I would imagine you probably interviewed what 100 people for this book. Sure. Over a hundred. I I didn't count it. Definitely in the 100 range. Yeah. Just to get the material. Oh yeah. Yeah. Um the interviewing the interviewing was was Gishmak. I I You enjoyed that traveling around? No, I didn't travel around. It was all It was all Zoom almost almost all Zoom. The only time I traveled was I went to Memphis and that wasn't solely for the purpose of interviewing. I wanted to just kind of feel out Rivata and his natural environment. Um, had did you ever meet Ravnata during his life? Never. I I still feel like I know him better than anyone else, but I knew I never met him. No. Now, a lot of people know the name Rebnata. They know there was this RV in Memphis who was totally out of a box but was a worldclass who knew everything. Um he was very famous for many different things prominently helping people whatever it was that people needed. Um what what was your first introduction to how did you get into this uh into this project? Right. So again, so there's so much, but the one of Nata's grandchildren actually lived in Cincinnati for Tufa. They don't live there anymore. It was a granddaughter. Um, and she was married to a guy Binam she is married to Kai Binyam Title and he's he was a friend of mine. So he used to tell me a little bit about his his wife's grandfather and um how unique he is. And that's really all I knew which which really wasn't much more than what most people knew about him. But when he was nifer, I knew enough to email mash and say we have to cover this. Like he was he was a special person. We have to cover that's really the extent of what I knew. So they they gave me the assignment. Now he was nif on a Friday. The Levia was on a Sunday and my primary s I didn't have time to do research because we I have to come out for that week. Yeah. Mishbaka comes out. But we go to print on Monday and the Levia was on a Sunday and so there's no time for research, no time to call people, no time to interview anyone. So I listened to the Leva to the Hesp and I wrote up an article basically based off that. I did call one Talmud of his um but that was it. So I wrote it was like a two-page spread that's probably like 1300 words. Mhm. And we sent that off. Now, I don't know why I shouldn't put into my head that I should tell them. I told Mishbak like it's not right. We didn't do him justice. I I feel like there's so much more. So, why don't we write at the bottom of the article that you know there's really so much to say and and will come out a length of your tribute. Uh yeah, a lengthier tribute and that's what we did. So, so the article came out and didn't pick up much traction because it it wasn't very compre comprehensive. And after the article came out, I I called Mrs. I emailed Mrs. Freeman, the head of Mr. Sha Freeman, Sha Freeman, editor, managing editor, and I said, you know, we wrote that it's kind of a conversation. I'm just reminded you like find find someone to write the article and she says like you should do it, you know, masitzvah. So I was I was really taken aback because at the time, this is going back a year and a half, I had not written a lot for them. I think I had written only two articles and certainly not about an Adam. So, it's a big responsibility. Um, and to her credit, she she trusted me. And if you want to know real, this is this is crazy. So, you mentioned I had this law career. I didn't enjoy it much at all. And eventually, we we decided to part ways. I was working at a very big law firm, very big Midwestern law firm. And so, basically, they made a deal with them. So, was there the end of April. So, I made a deal. I'm I'm going to leave. I'm I'm out. Like, I can't I can't take this anymore. Um, but they they said they'll pay me through the month of May. Okay. So, and I got another job in working in-house corporate healthcare and the starting date was June 1st. Okay. So, I had this month May. Well, you were getting paid fully paid, no work. That was the month between his pet and wow. So, I worked on that article all day. I never had such opportunity. Never before, never after where I had nothing else to do. no digus on my head because I was being paid. I had another job and that was the shellation that was the the month. So I worked like crazy on that. I had never worked so hard in Ara before meaning calling people getting got tons of information. I every night I was on the phone with with people. There was one Tomma primarily who had you documented Oliver's personal back personal details his background and the article was very good. It was called the humblest mountain. It came out right around Shv time. Um, so obviously you know referring to Sinai and it's the best name for an article about Revanata and we could talk about that. The humblest mountain is exactly who Revanata was and and it was great and Baram had very good feedback and the Greenblats called me I' say in August that they wanted me to write the book. Wow. Yeah. So that's how I got to it. So here you go. You get the job. You've never written a biography before but you're a talented writer. So, where do you start? What did you do? I started by panicking. Um, I I had no idea what to do. Um, I would say it took me like two to three months just just getting just getting my beerings. Uh, it's funny. I laugh like looking back at my original notes. Um, I I was silly enough. I like sent like a list of 10 questions to someone like please answer, you know, these 10 question or not. and there were like these two-word answers. Like it's ridiculous. It doesn't work that way. Um so, so really the the main challenge was finding who Revanata had interactions with because Revanata didn't have yeshiva. He wasn't the ravul. He was a one-man show who traveled all across the world helping people in all kinds of ways. So, and I say all across the world, I mean all across the world. Russia, Mexico, um, every single every town, every little derel in America, mon I don't even know what province, but in Canada somewhere like northern Canada. So, how do you find these people? So, it was like Sherlock Holmes. You call one guy and he tells you that his cousin's uncle may be knew of nothing. So you get the cousin's number, get the uncle's number, and and then a lot of them are are wild goose chases leave to not lead to nothing. And then you hit the jackpot. And these jackpots were were incredible. You get just the most incredible stories. You're saying people in the most random of places. Random places. The most incredible stories. Mhm. And that was the real challenge was just digging digging people up. Now the people who don't who didn't know Ribnata very well they they knew that the externals were unique. He was a man who you know he wore a straw hat and a and a brown suit came from Memphis but was also big enough of a ham that his word was respected by the greatest of gdylum and piskim. Um and he was called on for the the thorniest of hahikic issues giten specifically. Um So now you're starting to write the book and and what's the picture that's being painted for you the So I I knew he was a big Tum going in um going into it. I didn't I had no idea to what degree. Um so just to give you an inkling I had no idea that he had a relationship with the Brisker to the point where he said I discussed all of him. That that's different level stuff. That's not just like of of this is that's he's a lambd clearly alden of the of the highest level. I didn't know that he had several interactions with the Zelman that he had gone to visit the Kazan and spoken learning with all these kinds of things um brought to light a level of godless entra that I really had no idea and I don't think anyone knows and I think that's one of the things that the book will ring out is how aside from all the unconventional stuff he had a very conventional track of an adul of the highest level um and I I think that's also part of the story of the unconventional side because it's easy to be unconventional if you have nothing else going for you here. He had every reason to be conventional like he he was a tom of iron. People don't know that but but um he used to go to iron sho iron not in a formal sense he wasn't in um well in white plains at the time right but he he used to go to Aaron's house uh I guess in burough park of iron lift and he heard shum I think in your shami deay or something like that. Yeah I think so. Um so he was talking of of primarily but before really liitz liitz was like his rabbi in hashkafa was a slabka tal and not took on that mahal very much in terms of god you mentioned the way he dresses it it's true it wasn't again wasn't conventional but actually he it he was impeccable if you'll see he was he he he was always very neat like he's you know he never walked outside his house without a And that was part of the thing and that that came from Libert. So that's Ashkaf. Um and then before then he oh so one of his big rabbinstein who was half a half was I think 35 when he escaped. He was part of the Mir. He he sponsored him to come to America. So he didn't go through Shanghai. I think he left Kobe Japan. He came to New York and met him and hit it off was 16. Was was the in the mir 35 and they became like best friends. Wow. Was that his connection to the briskar was the brisk so kind of introduced him to the briskav but the briskar was was in was friends with's father's father grew up in brisk mh so right away the name greenblot you know it meant something to him right so he become that yeah but definitely introduced him to brisk yeah and he he used to go to risk shaven by the risk in that minion in his house um anyways yeah So that was something I had to I had to learn about him is is how how great of a he was. Um and then yeah and then like again I mentioned my my original notes I remember I I found written I called a guy had a lot to do with him because they were the only from Yidden like way out in the middle of nowhere and I wrote up a story that I thought was astonishing. He says, "I needed a get." And Raata came and he didn't charge anything and he wrote the get and then he paid the and he left. I was like, he wrote that story up. Like that's incredible. Looking back, that's a joke. That's like saying Ravnata's shoelace wasn't tied and he he tied it. Like that Ravna did that. That was his bread and butter. Bread of butter. The stories start way after that. Um so so the degree of his selflessness and the degree of his sacrifice was something that took me a while to like I didn't even know what what stories I was looking for. Mhm. You know, once a few months into the book, I was rejecting half the stories I got because they weren't even so run-of-the-mill. Yeah. People thought they were stories because nobody really knew what he was doing for the rest of everyone told me I thought he I was his best friend. People told me they thought they were his best friend till they came to the Lava and realized that everyone felt that way. Mhm. Um so, right. So, I thought you brought up a great point by the way just to reiterate it. I mean you brought it up beautifully but it's so easy to be unconventional when you don't have anything anything else going for you which is what you said but when when you're world class who like you said is is is learning your shami demay within Cuttler is talking to Briskarov and learning someone who could hold his own with the greatest of the great but then to be unconventional and kind of do your own thing um is what is what made ribbon so unique that combination Right. I'll tell you. So, one one of the things I I struggled with, you know, I very much wanted this book to be inspirational, right? And and one of the reason for that is Revato was such such a hidden person that that um it really it didn't even feel right revealing his story because here he spends his whole life concealing himself. What right do I have to to violate that? Um so the only was because I felt Cly has to know the story. They have to know that there was someone like this and you know take on maybe a degree of his of his hanhaga. Um but one of the question I ask myself is why I should emphasize so much his his brilliance you know he was an Eloy like his level of intellect was was beyond his memory was almost photographic and I talk about that in the book and I have to ask myself why because that you can't be inspired by that. Right. Right. So the answer is like like this that if you're not brilliant right if you don't have anything else going for you so then you choose your thing you know he he decided to fly around and you know getting people kitten because that's what he was good at I had to demonstrate that he was good at anything else he could have chose to be anything else and yet he did this chose to do this right and and and that's inspirational right that talks to anyone else who has who has other talents and other skill sets that they too should, you know, maybe step out of their comfort zone and and sacrifice for the sake of Kai. So that's I think that's really the reason why I spent time emphasizing that. Now you you alluded to uh stories. Tell me tell me some of the like the revelations that you had as you're going through your research and you're hearing these mind-boggling stories because you're saying for for him not to fly cross country to get someone to get was was kind of that's that's what he did. Yeah. That's not even surprising. But there there was more. I know there's more. Yeah, there's a lot more. Um, you want to know like his craziest stories? Like I they're very crazy stories like um he he found out that there's a there's a guy who um who left his wife without giving her a get. And he's somewhere in Vegas working at a kitchen in a casino. It's not where a nice Jewish boy wants to hang out. Um, so he picks up, flies to Vegas, goes to every single casino and asks him, "Is there a new cook in in town?" And they say, "No, no, no." Finally, yes. What time did the shift start? 5:00 a.m. So, he comes at 5:00 a.m. He shows up in the kitchen to a very surprised cook and he says, "You have to write your your your wife again." And he did. I mean the way it works I became a big buck in by the way. Um so there's it's called aarino it's a mininoy you you you appoint the the person to write to write the get and that's what he did he carried around the minoi and and he had them he had them sign it and then he went and and wrote the get. So that's just one I'll tell you he said he went to the casino at night and came back the next morning. He said, "I saw the playing cards." And now he was the same playing at 5:00 a.m. He said, "If I had such a um so that that's one. I mean, if you want to know more, I think this is also Vegas. He um and you have to also realize that like he didn't charge for this. He just and it wasn't like he was intimately involved in these stories. He just got like a phone call. There's a guy apparently he's in Vegas. is he's a okay he was out the door out the door they didn't even have a chance to say how much does this cost like he didn't ask questions so I went to his house he has drawers jammed with he kept everything every single plane ticket documented every plane ticket every car rental if you count up the dollars and cents it it might hit a million million dollars that he spent out of his own pocket sometimes they paid him back I don't think he asked for it I'm sure in many cases they never paid him back even if for flight, his car rentals, his hotel stays. He kept every single gas receipt. What was the reason for that? I have no idea. He just kept everything. I mean, these are his tickets, right? I was going to say his tickets to Ghana. Wow. Um, okay. But that's one. I I could give you so many. They're not all gitten. It's it's just anything for the sake of of that. That's really the more general thing. get obviously because to prevent mamms but but it's really anything that had to do with the the continuity of of Tyra and Cla and um if you want to know their story so we could speak about this not to really dedicate his heart and soul into building a a a Jewish day school in Memphis right um talk about sacrifice he knew that in order to convince people to send them to a Jewish day school he would have to counter the the very enticing offer of public schools which is that it's free right so he said it's free this Hebrew school will be free now what did that mean that means he had to fund raise well first of all he taught alfbase to to kindergarten and first grade started the school in 1949 September 1949 with a kindergarten and a first grade he taught them base which is also astounding that he's teaching kids olive past you're talking about a a world class a year before a year before he was talking to brisk and he's teaching alpha in memphis teaching alfas in Memphis um just to tell you a cute story one of those talum it was it was Ravim Lansky who's now a mag in in Baltimore nar Baltimore also world class so there was one year he wrote uh he wrote a about the vag perish on on base I have no idea what I'm talking about but this is obviously way beyond most people's prior and not to saw it. Next time he met, he met. He says, "I already taught you the whole thing, dude." Anyways, um he got a call from Torah Musora. They were very impressed with what he did in Memphis. And they said, "There's another city. I don't need to mention which city it was in the south who, you know, they also need a Hebrew day school. Maybe you can do it." So, so flew over there and he went to the rabbi and he said, "I um I want to start a Hebrew day school." And the rabbi laughed him off. He said, "The people here want nothing to do with the old, you know, with the old style. They they want to send their kids to public school and get get degrees and and and become successful, you know, in a in a secular way." So, not said, "But I really want to do this." He said, "Find me 10 names. if you could get 10 people to sign on um that they want to send their day their kids to Hebrew day school, we'll do it. So if not went knocking on doors in a city that he had nothing to do with, he didn't trust the cash anywhere. So he only ate fruit for a week and it was in the heat of the summer. He ate fruit and he drank water. That was it. And he finally got 10 names. So he shows up to the rabbi and he says, "I have I have the 10." So the rabbi turns like pale. I'm not sure what the major opposition was to a Hebrew day school. The way I understand it was that these these communities had a Torah that was affiliated with the school and therefore they made money. If if it was affiliated with the shul that way the shul made money. You open a school, the tamora, you know, fizzles out and I think that's where where it comes from. So the rabbi turns pale and he takes the list and he starts looking and he sees one name at the end and he says this one doesn't count. They live on the other side of the tracks which I think that means literally and also like figuratively other side tracks means they're like they have nothing to doesn't count. You have nine, you don't have 10. Deal's off. Run came home like ice munch and I think his wife said, "I'm putting this in in your the iron this list." Mhm. Now, an amazing postcript to the story many years later when Bill Clinton was elected president. So was looking at the New York Times, I think it was the New York Times, I don't remember exactly which paper, and he saw a list of the administration members, and he saw a name that looked familiar. He says, "I know this name from somewhere." And it hits him that this is the name of that kid from the other side of the tracks. Oh, wow. So the way I heard the story was he got this guy's phone number and he told him, "I want you to know you almost went to Hebrew day school." And Reat used to cry when he said this story. He said if he had such potential he became a member of the administration know he could have. Now I'll tell you um I know the guy's name. I spent two hours tracking him trying to track him down and I found him. So he wasn't mama much a member of the administration cuz if you if you Google Bill Clinton administration you get all the names his name wasn't there my I found him and I found he even wrote an article about how he grew up he mentions the town he grew up right outside the town so his mom was that story the other side checks I was so tempted to call him and ask him if he remembers that phone call from I I couldn't get myself to do it but it was cool to see that like the story actually happened like the guy was part of Bill Clinton's administration he literally grew up right outside Um, so he has a crazy story. I think that's a pretty crazy story. Yeah. Yeah. To his dedication to to a different community and anything that had to do with Kadush is anywhere. Um, I mean just just the amount he cared. He was once writing most of the he wrote for were he wrote were not for from people from people you know you know most marriages last and and they're beautiful but you know if it if it has to end so they know what to do. Um, Revat traveled around the world primarily when they weren't from and he just begged them to give their to give a get because he he couldn't bear that somebody should go on to get married and without it and they didn't want it. They didn't know what it was all about. Mhm. Um, he once in in the rare case that the woman received to refused to receive a get. she wasn't from. She told him the only time she receive a g is at Denny's at 5:'lock in the morning. So this was in New York. Sir Nato walked into Sharash. He went over to a bak by the name of Isel Groomman and he said uh you're going to come with me tomorrow at 5:00 in the morning. I need aid on the he got him and one of the Cutner boys who Cutner is our family from Memphis. five o'clock in the morning walk into Denny's. He's not getting paid for this. He's right. They don't want it. And but he just couldn't tolerate any violation of of kaducious Israel. That's unbelievable. Now I know you there's an interesting story with regard to parnasa because here Rabbnata was flying around um he he wasn't an official pulpit rabbi so he wasn't getting a salary for that. Um tell me that story because I know it's a fascinating one and let me back up a little bit talk about his parasa. So he he came to Memphis um primarily to be a tora teacher and and he had a beautiful voice and when he opened that was a paid position that was paid. So yeah, I mean I don't know how much money you make, but that was his parnasa. And when he opened the the Hebrew day school, I told you the tomatoes didn't like Hebrew day school, the competition. So he he was competing against himself, right? Because his job was to work at the Torah. He opened the Hebrew day school which he refused to take money from. So he's competing against himself. Now surprisingly, he continued to teach in the Torah. They let him. So someone asked him, "Did you do that for parasa?" So he says, "Vas parasa, the Hebrew day school only had a kindergarten and a first grade. What are the sixth graders going to do? What are the seventh graders going to do? I need to continue teaching them at the time." So that's an amazing theme. Now the story you mentioned, I hope I get all the details right and it happened a long time ago. The way I heard it was there was a yid in Memphis by the name of Mayer Kavalevitz. Real Mervitz. He was European and he landed in Memphis. I don't know why. And he needed to make parnasa. So the job they gave him was to go around collecting for the mikvah and he'd get a commission. So he ran around from house to house. Many of them were not from didn't know what mikvah was. Didn't care much. He wasn't doing very well. He knocked on the greens door and not says ah Mr. Kvit. He brings him in. He calls his wife over. His wife, by the way, was very much part of of everything and and she always she had her cakes and and stuff that she always gave guests and they gave him a very warm welcome and it really changed this this reminds his whole his life and his perspective like all of a sudden he feels welcome. So the way I heard it was I don't know if he thought it to himself or he said it openly like if I start doing well you have half you have half of uh of what I make. I think it was he told that to not either he told it or he thought to himself he probably told them and lisa he started moving on in life and he started getting involved in various investments and truth to his word um Revat got I think the deal was that got the half for free um and then until he makes enough money to to buy it out I think that's the way I heard it and like he he had Parnasa through that and all all because he greeted someone he didn't know. Yeah. He and his rabbitson, you know, you see the dividends. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. It wasn't his only source of income. He also works for the U a lot. He was a tremendous bucky in in cash. Mhm. But just talk about his pas something someone told me was, you know, not that impeccable memory. Remembered everything. You could tell you on November 2nd, 1962, I was walking down the street at Ocean Parkway. I was holding a yellow bag in my left hand. Every single detail. So he was once talking about how he was doing a job for the OU back in like the 50s or something. And someone said, "Did you do that for parasa?" And you think I don't remember. He didn't care about himself. This is the one of he himself Greenblat was a non-factor in any consideration. He cared about he cared about care about there was no such thing as I'm too tired. I'm too hungry. it it just didn't exist. He was a non-factor in his life. Um so like someone like that to not remember what you did. I mean for me if like in 50 years ago the only thing I'm going to remember is what I did for a living, you know. Um but it's it's just amazing. That's one of the amazing things. You know, we were smooing a couple weeks ago about about the book and and and and what we're going to do to get people to know about the book and you made a interesting comment to me. We were talking about what the what the book should be called. Yeah. In the end, we called the book Ribnata. Yeah. But you you made a comment that really if you had your brothers um the right name for this book is All for the Boss. Yeah. Just so happens to be sued by by the same family. There's that there's another book by that name. Yeah. Uh a classic. But the point that you were bringing out is this exact point that everything he did was for the boss. Everything he did was for the Bunn. there was no personal agenda at any at any stage. Um, Varay, you looked the way his life played out. He never he never promoted himself. Um, outside of his circle of what he was doing, many people didn't hear of him. Um, and he was comfortable with that. He liked it that way, 100%. Um, and there's so many so many stories that demonstrate that. I mean, I mean, just think about it, right? So he was tremendous moves to Memphis. Most of Memphis, even if they were from, they didn't understand who he was. And he never cared. He was like completely or people called him Nathan. He was Nathan. Um and uh someone told me that Yedra Barish Kipper lives in Baltimore now. He grew up in Memphis. Said his father, I guess was maybe not to a degree a bentra. He used to take his friends to the green past the green at 2 o'clock. and he says, "I want to show you something. There's a light that's always on." That's not the That's what it means to learn Tyra. Wow. And nobody knew and nobody and he didn't care. He just didn't care that that he didn't get any recognition uh for what he did. Um re really in essence and when we went to Rabbi Sherman before, I think he he he kind of brought this out that re there was a Yidda Greenblat who as much as we knew about him, he was really a mystery. And what you accomplished in writing this book is bringing the mystery and the majesty of Ribnata that existed in Memphis really to the whole world for people to learn about. Uh which is part of what makes this is a very unique biography maybe unlike any other biography that arts ever published. I know that's that's that's a a strong statement but it it is really unique. Um, interestingly when I was trying to think of a parallel, um, I was thinking of David Feinstein because Feinstein in his own way was was really a bad ribbed was totally unique. Um, and and it's probably not a coincidence that and were good friends. They were good friends. That's right. Yeah. Did you see that parallel? You know, were there other parallels? I mean, if not had a it's not nice to say there was a little there's like element of like outrageous like he did things that were just complete I I can't see of David going into a casino kitchen. It's just not that he he maybe he wasn't convinced but he was definitely quieter personality. It was not that was dynamic. He was he was hilarious. He had a sense of humor so much so I was tempted to have a chapter dedicated to his sense of humor. I felt it wasn't a so I incorporated the the stories into um into other chapters but I I very much wanted to bring that out there's many many videos of people had this thing when they were not they just had to video him they that there's something historic about him so I have all the videos I watched them a thousand times it's not you could laugh to tears from some of the things he said and did um so that would be a different personality did he mean to be humorous or was it just that he had a sense of humor really had a sense of humor Uh-huh. He saw the humor in life. But it is true. A lot of a lot of the videos also that I've seen of Ribbna are are younger Benetra. Yeah. They ran after him. Eating out of his hand. Eating out of his hand. You know, whether it's him checking Dal and you know people he walk into people just like pounced on him. I have a picture of him. He's at a wedding and there's like 16 people around all right. He was just he was a fountain of story. He had so many stories and he had this incredible memory. So anything that ever happened with them and and he was mashall and salvich which I forgot to mention he had so many stories with salvik and then the briskav versus alman and the Imry emis he took walks with the immigr and he remembered every single story so like you can't and it's all like interlaced with tyra and humor and it's it's just and his own personal stories with kitten and a lot of videos by the way of him speaking also ribbon was master order. Yeah. And uh he had this he had a certain diction a certain way of of talking that was that like drew you in. You were you were captivated. He he that honestly something I couldn't bring out in a book. You have to have seen it in person. But I do think people are going to read the book are going to start hunting down these hunt these clips because once you get a uh that that peak into who this unique personality was, you want you want more. Yeah. What's the takeaway of this book? People are going to read it. I think they'll be entertained. Um, firstly by your writing, you just you did an incredible job. Just the way the way you you paint the picture gave you a tremendous gift and you should continue to use it. Um, beyond that, I'll be inspired by ribbon scholarship by his mother. You mentioned him learning two o'clock in the morning. This is something he did regularly without any fanfare because he was in Memphis. It wasn't like anyone anyone knew about it or spoke about it until uh till after Can I tell you a story about 2 o'clock in the morning? Um this is in the book there there was a woman uh in Memphis who didn't know Ravnata, didn't grow up anywhere near Revanata. Um she had a baby and and the baby got very sick very shortly after. He didn't even have a breast. Like it was a baby boy. It was maybe two days later he got very sick. They brought him to the hospital and um he was never baby passed away. So in those days they they just like sent you home like just they told the parents like go home and she was obviously completely overwhelmed. So she called a Y by the name of Hilabelli. I think he was just nifter lived in. So but in the time he lived in Memphis and he said it was two o'clock in the morning. He says callata it's 2 o'clock in the morning. Reata is up. Calla. She calls picks up right away. She tells him what happened. He's like don't worry about it. Just it's fine. He goes to the hospital gets the kid gives him a bris. That's was a master. He was a master at everything. And uh he gave the baby a name. And it's also he spoke to her first about what name to give. He drove to the basis buried it came back to the family and and ever since then he he always would go visit the family. They lived nowhere near him. I'm just giving I know the 2:00 in the morning is a very real thing like you knew you could call at any time and he would be there. And again he didn't know this woman. She wasn't he didn't have a shaw. He wasn't the rav of a shaw but he he did fears like for certain people he would answer the sh here. didn't even know her and wow so maybe that's I asked you what the takeaway and you told me the story maybe that is the takeaway um the average person watching our conversation may not have the the level of of tyra scholarship the brilliance the charisma the photographic memory these are these are matonist that gave him but it's what he did with them that he literally lived foram and he lived for other people in such an extraordinary way. And especially in our world where you'll forgive me, but uh you know nowadays it it it almost doesn't count if it wasn't documented uh you know in writing or by video or or or got some kind of level of exposure. Ribnata's life was lived totally in that sense it would live totally under the radar because he really didn't get a lot of exposure um for his greatness in um this book is going to do that. Uh maybe that's what we could all take away from ribbon is learning how to live for others. So it's it's it's more that's deeper than that because it's it's it's learning how to live without yourself. In other words, it's not necessarily for others. It's for Hashem. It's for it's for Ty. for anything. Um, the way I and I write this I think at the at the beginning of the book is the takeaway of the book is so that you should be able to ask yourself what would RNA do because we we can't do that. It's impossible. We're not on that level where we could just completely step back and look at something entirely objective. But when you get to know RVat just just go through the motions whatever he would have done that's going to be the right thing to do. And I think over this you past year and a half when writing the book that's what I developed became my rebi you know in a sense and when you don't know what to do you just ask what would do and um that's that's usually going to be the right answer that I think that's the takeaway learning how to step back and and live completely for the sake of their well on that note maz on this accomplishment I I was going to ask you if you're going to write another biography. I've heard from people who have worked on these projects that, you know, after they finish such an undertaking, they're like, "Okay, I'm never never writing a biography again. I hope that's not the case with you. I hope you'll do it again." I'm certainly not writing another biography in honor of Nata. Even though there you sure can. Like after this book comes out, people are going to be calling me from all over the world. How in the How am I supposed to find them? Like I told you, like it's very hard to track people down. you'll have to print an addendum. But Mim, you you we'll we'll see more from from you as far as the writing is concerned and um and I can't wait to hear the feedback from the public to this book because I think they'll be deeply inspired and uh deeply moved both by by Rebnata's uh aid hashem and his devotion to other people. So, thank you for bringing that story to light and thank you for being here. Thank you. [Music]