Inside ArtScroll - Season 4 Episode 11: Rabbi Nachum Lehman: Seeing is Believing

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Arts Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today I am privileged to be joined by Rabbi Noim Leman, director of CSB Care. Thank you Rabbi Leman for joining us. Thank you. Now, before we get into our conversation, I just want to let our viewers know that you brought quite a bit of show and tell here, so they should know that it's not a mistake that we have this iPad and this $15,000 screen and some other interesting paraphernalia. Um, and what makes you this interview so unique as well is that most of the interviews we've done here at Inside Arch have been with authors and writers and sometimes relatives of people related to the books that that uh that we published. And today we we're going in a totally different direction. um your connection to art scroll is very unique in that you're bringing art scrolls works and books to unique populations people who either can't see or people who can see but that's their only means of communication. So tell us a little about what you do and how you got involved in it. Okay. Um we uh I think that's a great way to to to you know to give it some context that we have clients that are visually impaired and blind. So we bring art scroll materials to them by either printing them in braille. Uh some of them get it in electronic braille. Uh we do large print for the visually impaired as well. And large print can sometimes mean just a little bit bigger than regular print. Sometimes it means one or two words per page. And uh so that's one part of the of what CSB does. And then a second part is not just changing the format of the material, but actually giving the clients a different access method, a different way to actually open the book or turn the page of the book. And that's for people who are physically disabled who have possibly suffered a stroke um have cerebral palsy or ALS and these people control their environments in completely different ways and they also want to have access to the arts grow library and that's what we provide for them. Now this this involvement with art school goes back how many years? About 20 uh maybe a little more a little less I don't remember the exact dates. So this is going back to R mayor Lawitz's days. Yes. Is he the one who initially uh kind of made that connection, that relationship? Yes. Yes. And so I think it was um probably in the year 2000 or so is when we started doing embossed braille, hard copy braille in order to give people a lot of access to the digital materials that were available online or in purchasable software. and we started receiving many requests for arts school materials as well. And uh so we started the process of getting permission. That's not a quick process. It it's it's something that takes a while. And we actually had um we enlisted the help of uh Rabbi Pesron helped us a lot with that and uh we Rabbi Ron Beerman was involved but mayor Zlatitza was personally involved the entire time and it was just a matter of working it out in a very responsible and effective way. So, uh I think it took though a couple of years to actually get the permissions to uh distribute art scrolls materials in the ways that in the ways that we do it. Um but once we did receive permission, it was like opening a floodgate. It was everything was available and when we made requests for materials, they came in immediately. Mhm. What was the first thing that you decided to bring to the to the visually impaired public? What was the first volume? I think the main thing that was the first requests were really for leisure reading materials even before Gomorrah and Sedora and way before way because most people would get they would have a sitter from us. They would have and doing Hebrew English stuff in Braille is very difficult. So it was it was the leisure reading material was definitely the most important piece missing in their lives because they you know if a three-day umptive you know people spend a lot of time reading and if someone doesn't have something in braille and that's all they read then it's very difficult very difficult so the leisure reading material was the first those were the first requests and I think that's the um the first thing we did was ask for 10 biographies and some inspirational publications. And uh we got them out, you know, almost immediately. And I think that the one of the worst things that happened to me at that time was um we had to spend a lot of time converting these things, even though we were getting them digitally, converting them into braille and taking out some of the type setting things that are in them in order to make them braille compatible user friendly for them. Yeah, it was it was a job and um so we put in many hours to create these this first set of books, some children's books, some adult books. Do you remember any specific titles from that first bunch? So from the first bunch, I know we did some of the touched by his stories um initially by Spiro. Roy Spiro um we did some of the mag books. Um we did a couple of biographies. I don't remember. I know we did Beloved by All. Um I have that here in a large print, but I don't that wasn't from the first ones, that's for sure. Um so um but after we did this and we had spent a lot of time in the office preparing these, I think like a week after we distributed them, they were our clients were calling back, okay, we finished them, where's more? So that that was that was difficult. Uhhuh. It was difficult but also a validation that you had hit on something right 100%. You is something that was had never been available. All these fantastic books that all of us take for granted we could just go to any shelf and literally thousands and thousands of books and I think before anything it's just important to take a moment and remind ourselves of how fortunate we are that we don't have to come on to your services. We go into any farm store, we order books online, they come, we open them up, we read them, right? What a gift from that not everyone has. Whether it's because they're visually impaired or where they have um other limitations like you mentioned ALS patients where they could only see with they they could only communicate with their sight and you've created programs that enable them to read. So, why don't you start? Give us one example of something you've done that we could show the audience. Uh, okay. So, I mean, so this is these are a couple of Braille volumes. So, um, we just took some things off of the shelf. Uh, this is, uh, who cares? 94 stories of people who did and by Barak B. And this is, um, so right away in Braille things are a lot bigger. I don't recall how many volumes this it actually is in Braille, but this is volume three. So, so however big the book is, it's going to be probably six or seven times the number of volumes. So, one one book is actually released in several volumes, right? So, this is just like volume three even though it's all part of the same book and and and it's just basically it's it's a book in braille and where they have an index in the front and then they have the page numbers in braille and they can just read through it and um yeah and they they use this on a shabas afternoon just like we use and I will I will say when you when you came before before we start our interview I was looking through some of your paraphernelia and and I closed my eyes and I was running my my hand over the over the braille and uh I commented to to our engineer here that I could barely discern the difference between you know the number of dots and things like that. I know I'm sounding so ignorant but it it it really seemed to be such a yman's task to master braille. Just talk about that is is I mean obviously you're familiar with that with the difficulty of learning the language, right? and and it is it's um the task of learning the code is not is not such a difficult task where someone has to just um learn what each braille character um reference stands for in either English or Hebrew. Um uh Hebrew braille actually is read also from left to right. That's an interesting uh interesting detail. Um, but the uh the part that takes a while to become proficient in is the tactile accuracy. And that's where where which means in layman's terms being able to differentiate between the different characters using someone's finger to figure out is that three dots in a row, is that two dots and one on the other's column. So these so that um developing that skill usually takes someone about a year until they're reading at a pace that's considered a reading pace. Do you know how to read Braille, by the way? Only Only by looking at it a little bit. Not by I can't. And only Hebrew Braille. Hebrew Brail a little bit. Yeah. I was going to I wanted to test you. Could you Could you read this sentence? I I can't. No, I'm not I I could. Also there's there's aside from the braille itself it's there there are contractions. So that means that a person has to learn many hundreds of contractions where in braille let's say if you have just th that will represent an entire word. Oh it's almost like rashavis right and that's to make it that it should be smaller and quicker to read. So those I certainly don't know. So yeah I failed that one. So this is here this is a bra book. Who cares? What What else do we have there? So now we have there's a few things. First of all, we have um some special volumes like we we've done Touched by a Story for Children. We have many volumes like this where um the Braille volume actually has the pictures from the book in the volume. And this was because a few of our clients were blind mothers that wanted to read to their children. Wow. So they would be reading the book from the braille and the child would be looking following the picture. And just an interesting a really interesting uh addition to this book is that um we had we had one ALS patient who wanted to do some volunteer work for CSB. So um and we we actually had a wonderful project for her and this is going back several years. The project was that she went and created captions for these pictures so that there although it wouldn't be there in the art scroll book, but it would be in a a page on the other side corresponding to the picture that would say there's an elderly man speaking to five boys there. One's wear two are wearing red hats and it would be an entire caption so that the blind mother would actually have the details to describe to her child. Wow. Okay. Um, and then we have um all sorts of special projects that we're that we're constantly doing. This one is something that um we just started a couple of years ago um and actually uh Gdalio is was more involved in this project where this is um a braille Hebrew English toll. Hebrew English is a big challenge when it comes to braille because having it on two sides of the page is difficult. Um it's difficult. Is this Hebrew and English on the So we what we did was we took the every puk of Tahillim and we have the Hebrew and then we have the English indented a little bit almost like an interlinear style. So it's it's really linear, not interlinear because the interlinear I yeah I think we would we would give up but but here it's it's linear but it's just the entire puk and then an indented version in English so that whoever wants can do the Hebrew and if they skip the indented piece they can just go to the next Hebrew or if they want they can read the English which is giving them the same option as they would have with a printed volume. Very nice. And this is this is a new thing and very exciting for us because Hebrew English is important for this. I listen, I think every every single volume you're going to put out, whatever it is, is going to be significant because you're opening up uh you're opening up a new world to to to people who didn't have it. Right. Right. Right. Right. Now, let's turn to this screen for a moment. This screen, I think when you set it up, you said it's like a 14 $15,000 monitor. What what does this do and who does it cater to? So, this is for someone who can see but they can't move and generally for someone who can't speak either. Um, it's usually for ALS patients or someone with a physical disability that you mentioned cerebral palsy is what cereby also and there are children and adults that use these devices for everything and it really gives people independence. It gives them the ability to communicate. It gives them the ability to control their environment. They can control the thermostats in the house, the anything that's infrared controlled, anything um people they can email, they can text, they can even It's not just about not just about learning and reading. It's primarily about communication about communication and that's something that CSB does as well. It's providing people reach out to you on behalf of these patients, right? And do you actually go set it up individually for every patient kind of to custom tailor it to their needs? Yes. Yes. I mean most of the time we don't have to do it in home. We can do it remotely. Um, but it's it's a constant constant job keeping people's devices updated and communicative and uh but one of the one of the benefits of these devices that they have full control of is that we were able to use some of the art scroll materials to give people the ability to dive in, give them the ability to uh read a book. And um this is this has really opened up amazing things for uh adults and children. And really, you know, some of the kids that are using these devices, you can imagine it, they don't have a lot of material. They don't have a lot of control of their world. And when you give them a children's art scroll book, which is so exciting, and that they can control it, it's it's really changing their world. Wow. Now, do you you want to could you demonstrate for us how this works? Yeah, I it's really it's really simple. Just wherever our um our viewers will be able to follow along. Okay. So, just by looking at the screen, wherever I look, you'll see this little um indicator showing that like it's dwelling on the button. So if I would go to the where it says main index over there and I just stay on it for a little bit it will I see it says right this I guess this is a rashana this is a rashashana matzar and so if I want to go and I'm controlling with my eyes so if I want to go let's say to to Shahis I look at it I just look at it you just look at it you're dwelling on it and if I want to go to tequia scheer I look at it. I look at Teia Schaefer and then it clicks it and then it will bring up Teia Schaefer and here is And how do you scroll on the page now? So we don't scroll. We only do next page. We have to split up the page into two page into two, right? So and I go if I look at the next at the uh next button here that goes to the next page and then I can see the bottom of the page. And if I go next again So you could go next and you could go back and then you're controlling this all with your eyes. All with my eyes. And if I go back to the index, it says, "Do I want to return?" I say, "Yes, and I'm back at the index." So, this is how someone would davin. Um, and yes, um, people use this on Russ. Yes. Yes. And on many mo many people use it on Rashana Shabas. Um, it's, uh, we're not going to get into that, but it's but it's pretty much uh, like that. And, um, and then, so this is this is just, let's say, this is a maker. If I go home, I can then go into other things like here is something that we did for um for Shvis where someone gets the McGillis Rus um the art scroll McGillis Rus with the pictures and this is for a child who is 9 years old who is using eyetracking and again the same thing. It just has the access to the Russ McGillis Rus hard scroll. It's unbelievable. That is really unbelievable. It's really it's and what's what's so important to remember is that you need you need to use your imagination how you can use this to make it more effective. We've been doing this for many years and this we didn't think of this one right away initially right away. It's like it's it's really it's you know it's about the clients and and sometimes caregivers realizing that there's something great that you can do and this makes somebody's or makes their while all the other kids in their class are learning about Russ and they could learn too they can do it too. Wow that's really phenomenal. Now communicating is a similar system where they yeah I could show you how that works over here. I'll go to the index. And the way they do that, you need a little bit, you need really good accuracy. And maybe my position isn't great for it, but I'll try it. I'm going to speak. I'll try to type your name. And it's just one letter at a time. There is predictions, but Hiser is not a prediction. I'm telling you. I'm having trouble getting the G. I got it. Okay. And then uh you need predictions where it will help the patient finish the word like autocorrect type of thing, right? And then they it builds up over time according to what they type. I got to get that R. R is a little harder. There we go. And then I can speak it. Higer. Wow. So that's how this is how people communicate. and they can prepare beforehand if they need to speak by um they prepare things before and they have phrases and there's all sorts of shortcuts to make this more effectively and uh and quicker but uh but it's an amazing amazing device really is you I mean you're restoring uh you're giving life back to people who who really lost all connection. Um, just think back not so long ago when before this technology existed, Nebuchen with ALS, they had no no way of communicating. Right. Right. So, it's it's really transformative. Right. Uh, we know um Rebendy Rosenberg is from the more well-known uh uh individuals who despite his ALS display tremendous courage. you know me he made a cas and and inspired so many people to do that but that was really credit to you and the innovations that you uh made available right right and I and I have to I guess say again that you know the credit goes to Mendy Rosenberg because you know it's it's it's really our clients who have this inner strength that helps them get through something so challenging um where Barashem able to sometimes provide tools that they need to make something happen. But it's it's them. It's really someone learning Braille and someone and someone using an eyetracking device or and even now we're we're getting more involved in brain communication and there are things that are happening on that front. Um it's it just takes unbelievable perseverance and they have it. Now you you're focused a lot on on Judeaic related uh products, right? Judaism. Um, how I'm curious, how does how do your innovations compare to what's going on in the wide world out there? The their braille societies and and things of that sort. Do you work in tandem with them? Have they ever have reached out to you, you know, kind of maybe you're even ahead of where they are? Talk about that. Right. So, we do we do a lot together with some of the other organizations. Um it's uh I guess when it comes to the Judeaica materials um it's just you have to be really careful you can't have publishers texts going all over the place. So it just makes it a little bit more proprietary information and so people I guess out there in the in the greater world so people have more online access to things. Um and there's just a ton of content available online that is just not available to our our yeah to our audience. So is there a way for for an ALS patient to to navigate the the internet and things of that sort completely and I I could show you but it's it is they and that's how someone like Mendy Rosenberg who was actually um learning and using um listening to Shirim a whole day he was doing that through online access and and you can completely uh surf the web and get to Torah anytime you can get to Edaf any any of the available resources resources you can get to and you can control them. Um, and those part of some really part of what we do sometimes is that access needs higher accuracy and sometimes the ALS patients accuracy is not great due to medications or whatever it may be. That's part of our job trying to make that connection so that they can use it. So sometimes we have to program buttons to do things automatically. But um uh we actually have uh for one particular patient we have um we've created like a whole dafoi system in his eye tracker where he has Rabbi Elephant Shiorim um and they're downloaded and they're in the eye tracker. It's it's like a full-time job. But we have he's using that and he uses and he learns the DAFF every day and he it's like that's our payback. Uhhuh. So that's almost like a custommade system for that particular patient and most of the things we do are customized but some of them take a little more work and you know and but that one is extremely successful and uh he's using it and now a second ALS patient is starting to use it also. Now, we jumped right into your incredible work and what you do, but I failed to ask you h how someone like you you live in Benzenurst, Brooklyn. You how do you get in how does someone get involved in this that it becomes it really became your life's mission? So, yeah. So long story, but I guess the the short version is that I was I was actually in Kyle and uh I was doing a little bit of software development on the side and and then someone that I knew lost his vision and this was in about 1996 or 97 and since he knew that I was doing some computer things, he asked if there was a way for him to be able to continue learning uh without being able to read. So, I did some research and I came up empty-handed. So, I wrote a quick piece of software which was an audiobased program that allowed um people to record Gimara, Rashi, Typhus, and all sorts of commentaries. And then it was indexed in a way that someone who couldn't see would hear a little piece of the Gimara. And then they had a little keypad with 20 buttons on it. They could either go to the next piece of garamara, they could go to the rashi, the typhus. It was giving the tech term is random access to anything they wanted to learn. Meaning when you're learning a gimmar, you could decide to go to the next gimmar or you could decide to go look at the marsha. You want independent access to everything there. And that's what this audio program did. And so we start that's how we started. I mean, is that similar to now Kalashian and these other programs? Totally. Not at all. Because because here by Kalashian when you listen to a Shia, you're going to listen to the Shia the way the person sequentially said it. Right here, the recordings were made, but you could listen to them uh like the Gumarra now. And even though the Gimarra was read in straight, Tendim of Gimarra, you could after you hear a little piece, you can now listen to the Marsha on that Gimarra. or you could decide to go back and read the same gumarra five times. So it was giving somebody the experience of learning from a Gimara but in a in an audio version and within a year of making that software 20 people were using it including Ryak Misha Kfski in Baltimore Shiva he um because he was severely visually impaired and it took some it was it was a difficult process because it was Baltimore and it was before the it wasn't so easy transferring data over between Ben's nurse I know in his biography it talks about that at the Syama at the end of his life how he he was using these giantsized garums. Were you involved in I wasn't involved in the giant size at that time. We weren't doing the giantized garas but we were just involved in this part which was giving him access. Um I I remember the story I met I went to meet him in flatbush and um uh I asked him so what does the rashiva need? Now he had no clue what how much work it takes to do this right. So he said, "Okay, so I need the Gumar, Rashi, Tis, the the Rashba, the Ramban, Raniker, P Yeshua, and and the list." And like till I think I I just like exploded. I said, "Okay, okay, okay." And then he um and we actually had someone in Benenhurst uh do the recording. Uh and this is someone had to do the recording of Riker and Pine Yeshua when they weren't learning the suga. So like that was and and then we gave it to him. But um so we start we we gave him those materials. Um but was that that was in print or in audio? No, this was on a all computer-based. It was the audio one and it was using a computer with this little keypad where he could listen to the gumar and he could go straight to the rigger. Wow. And he could or whatever he wanted. Um but but he was nifa very soon after you started doing this right. I mean we did a few um a few deliveries of data with him and and yeah and he was nifa then and then but um but so within that first year we had already acquired 20 clients and uh I think at that time we went uh went to Aaron Shakar with someone and to ask if we should if like we should make this into an organization and he said certainly and um and I think Gdali Weinberger was like one the founding fathers of CSB and and helped us get it off the ground and over the years uh you know it's just it's evolved and evolved into many different technologies for so many different people. I think it's worth mentioning because I'm actually going to show the something on the arts school digital library that um Stanley and Ellen Wasserman who were the ones who sponsored the arts school digital library have for years been sponsoring what we've been doing for the blind and visually impaired and wow so many of the projects. So they've been on both sides of that. Wow. That is special. I was going to ask you about the the funding component. Is this all sponsored? is is is there any is there any government funding for this type of thing? Not not really because it's you know it's it's very yeah it's very specific and yeah so it's difficult and uh some of the other things some of the ALS stuff there is potential for some government funding but so far we haven't and how big of a staff do you have working on these on these things? We have six people. We have five people in the office and then we have a programmer outside of the office and a director of development outside of the office. And um and it's uh we have a really great staff of people who they they really get these projects done. Um a little bit we have so many dream projects on our lists, but uh we'll get them. I mean the the you know the a project like the arts scroll the Shanstein Gummorra is that something that's available? So only partially um because again the Hebrew for the braille for the Hebrew English we do it once in a while for someone who needs something like that. It's a tremendous amount of work because even when we get the texts from art scroll which they generously provide it's it's a lot of work on our side to go to convert to convert the Hebrew English and it's it's a it's a pro it's really a process so we don't do that often and for the for let's say for the ALS patient to take so that we do that more often we do that where we have some clients that have um you know a mcto or two of art scroll art scrolls shotenstein edition on their ALS on their eyetracking device and they use it that way. Um there there are challenges with that as well though just to be clear because the way the screen is laid out we have to split every page in two in order that someone should be able to just read it right so when you split something in two so now we're going to have the gimar split in two and then the English side is going to be split in two. So if they're on the top of the um and they want to see the translation, they really have to go two pages further to go see that translation and then two pages back. So these sorts of things just make it make it difficult complicated and but yeah but we do it we do it and that's you know part of the uh Wow. Now what what did you want to show us on the article digital library? Something on the Oh yes. So, this this is actually there's there are so many things I'd love to show you, but we we don't have enough time for everything. So, but this the um the art scroll um digital library is something that's available on an iPad. And I think that a lot of people that are physically disabled don't really know that there are ways to control the iPad completely by voice. Now, it's not Siri. Siri is is very limited, right? But Apple has a comprehensive voice control built into the iPad which people with severe physical limitations they can completely use an iPad. Um, now I it's I think it it's worth mentioning that you have on the Arts World team, um, Ellie Drabkin, who's in Baltimore, who actually is is very proficient in many of the alternative access methods for iPads and computers um, for accessing the the Arts School digital library. Um, and I I wish more people knew about that. Um, Arts Girl has so many things going on with for the visually impaired, the physically disabled. I just think it needs to to be brought out more to be brought out and advertised. Um but because some of the things that we do we've we've run into uh Ellie Dradkin um uh over the you know uh over time and you know he's been doing some amazing things just you know not not regarding voice control but I just wanted to show this really quickly so that if someone sees this and they would like to control their iPad and like to have access to the art school digital library um this is an amazing tool um and hopefully it's going to Listen to me. Okay, I'm going to try it here. Hey, give it a shot. Hey Siri, turn on voice control. Voice control is already turned on. Open Art Scroll. So now the way this voice control works is that I can tell it some commands and it will give me access to every element on the screen of the iPad. So I'll show you one of them is show numbers. Now every book has a number next to it and every link on the entire iPad screen has numbered is numbered. So you don't have to say the name of the item. You just say the number. So I can say now just have to stop before I 13 and it opens up the art scroll to Hillm. Now um there are ways now you'll see there's like a next button the art scroll digital library has a next button on the bottom right that one could be difficult sometimes. You could do the show numbers command and that will show us a number there but then you'd have to do that every time. It happens to be that um all of the links on an iPad also get names. Um Art Scrolls naming convention isn't so great, but that's because they didn't realize that they could be used for this way. But um I think that the next button I think is called left arrow. So I'm going to try that. Tap next ar. No, sorry. Tap left arrow and then it goes to the next page. Now, let's say there are sometimes links that have no number and have no um name, but there's still the coolest way in the world to control it. Let's say I wanted to go to the menu, which is all the way on the bottom left over there. Show grid 17. So, you grided the page and then you picked the box that had I can and I'm making it smaller and smaller. Seven. And once I'm once I'm happy with the size, I can just do tap seven. And it brings up the menu. Wow. So this is a way that aside from the art school digital library, this is someone if someone is physically disabled and they have their voice, they can use this completely to control their iPad and from an iPad you can control everything. They can they can go onto Shiim, they can control their environment, they can put on music, they can anything. Yeah. It opens up again it opens up a whole a whole wide world to them. But what amazes me is that art scroll has done such a great job of getting the content and the material out there and now Barm after these 20 years we've had the permissions to be able to go and you know disseminate them in this way. It's it's just amazing how this is opening up so many doors. Well, you you mentioned Rome's Lawitz earlier. We we spoke so many times on this program about um Ramire's vision. He was a visionary. He saw things before other people did. He He envisioned projects before people thought they were possible. And I'm I'm guessing that from your collaboration, which goes back almost 30 years. Um I I guess he saw what you saw, you know, no pun intended, but he really saw that he that vision that you had uh he had as well. And that's what uh kind of enabled him to to be free about giving you the material that you need to be able to reach all these uh people and being mazaka so many people and enriching their lives and bringing flavor and and and and sound and and and and vision back into their day. Absolutely. He was he was very he was very into making this happen. And I think it was just took time just for it to happen in a responsible way. And I think that on the side we owe him another big piece of gratitude for um because when whenever we have to get permission from another publisher, it's the first thing we say is that Art Scroll gives us their texts and it's usually from there it's it's easy. Right. Right. Right. So we and we have relationships with so many publishers now and um but I think that people they really respect the fact that Art Scroll has has done this that we're able to get it from anyone. Now what what's what's the next frontier in in the in what you do? What's the next big project? There there are so many projects going on but um it depends in which uh in in which thing. Um I think that one of the the biggest things going on by us at the moment is is brain communication. um because it's called BCI brain what's brain computer interface which is being able to allow people to communicate just by thinking and um and this is this is an amazing thing which is there are programs that have been out even for 30 years uh which I've used but there you have to put like an EEG headcap on and it takes a half an hour to put on but a person just by looking at a screen and thinking they can actually type and I've done it so I know that it works and um today they're trying to come out with headsets that allow people to do that that we're we're not there yet. Um everyone knows about Elon Musk's initiatives which are real and working and but that's that's neurosurgery. Um we're actually right now focusing on a particular technology where they put in a stent um and this they put a stent into someone's motor cortex and through that stent which is a minor it's very minimally invasive procedure ask how invasive it is. It's a stent. It's a stent in the brain, but it's a stent only. And um uh we have a few ALS clients um that actually have had that done already. And through that, it's going to open up a lot of brain communication options. And um so that's going to and then you know hopefully bring more people uh enable more people to to use your services. Right. Right. And that's important. That's really important. It's really it's amazing to to hear and to see um all that you've accomplished. I I would be remiss if I didn't take a moment to thank uh Kanan Kramer and his crew at Kum for enable us he they enabled us to do this interview with these uh different um the show and tell and they showed it on the screen and and so our viewers could get a taste uh of of what you're doing. So, we're we're appreciative to them and we're appreciative to you for it's really inspiring uh just to listen to to what you do and the passion you have for this work. Any any final message before we wrap up? No, I just I think this is my big opportunity to say the big thank you to Art Scroll for making their their publications available to so many of the people we work with. It was it was gamechanging for us when that permission came through and it's gamechanging for us every single day. Well, Tashem, you'll continue to change so many lives and uh and um just really it's a tremendous opportunity, a tremendous that you're doing. So, we wish you continued and thank you for coming out to join us today. Thank you. [Music]