Inside ArtScroll - Season 3 Episode 13: Nachman Schachter – Ten Steps to Eternity

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today I am joined by Nakman Shakar, author of a brand new art scroll book 10 steps to eternity on the tennis. Thank you for joining us. Thank you very much for inviting me and I very much appreciate you inviting me and Art Scroll publishing uh my safer my book. It is a book. It is a safer book. It is a safer kind of a combination of both. Before we get into the book, uh tell us a little about yourself. I know you live in Baltimore today. Where do you come from? What's your background? Well, I grew up in Burough Park. Um then I uh I went to yeshiva in Burough Park High School in the Mir Yeshiva base went from Long Beach to Lakewood and then I learned near Israel where I when I got married in 1980 we moved to N Israel moved to Was there anyone over the course of your years anyone who impacted you more profoundly than than others? Anyone uh you know who was a seinal figure? So of course we all have our elementary who are wonderful and high school wonderful. But when I went to Long Beach to the rashiva I was there the second year of the yeshiva we had 20 bum there. So I had a personal contact with the rashiva and uh he helped each of us grow in our own way. I had a close relationship with him. It was it was very beautiful. uh moving to Lakewood. When I came to Lakewood, Lakewood still only had one building, the Yoshan uh Cutler was the Rashiva was the Mashk and that was it. And uh Fogle um he certainly made an important impression on me. Um when we first came, I came with my group. I think we had like 10 of us that came from Long Beach and my kabus and I said, "You know what? Wouldn't it be nice to be a kabus with the mashk?" So, we went over to the mashk. We went through the lobby, went to mash. We're about to knock on the door when we looked over and said, "He's not going to learn with us." Turned around and walked out. But on the way out, I said to myself, "Why wouldn't he learn with me?" So I went back, knocked it out the door. He opened the door and I said, "Can I learn with the Mashk?" With a big smile on his face, he said, "Whoever has to learn with me, I will learn with them." Wow. It started out once a month, twice a month, three times a month. Um, and before you knew it in those days, he lived in the dormatory Monday to Thursday, and he would sleep there. So he had someone who woke him up in the morning, took him to the mikvah and then we learned. So after a few years I was that person and we learned everything from to Mishna Gomorrah everything. Wow. It's a big we're talking about what now the late 1970s or so. Uh yeah. Yeah. Late 1970s. Right. So that was very beautiful. And then um when I moved to Lakewood so I uh went to Shul in the agura of in the agura of Baltimore when you when you moved to Baltimore moved to Baltimore and uh and that's what in what year was that? 1980. Okay. Got married December 1980 and the last chevra is Baltimore. Mhm. Um and Rav Heinaman is the RV there and he is the rabbitical um the rabbitical individual who runs the star K. So I became close with him for certain reasons and uh he has been a very important figure in my life for the last many many years. Now what have you done professionally over the last uh 40 years? Once you left Kyle or what you know once you got married what did you do? I've done a few things, but the last in the last 25, 30 years, I have two um two jobs that I do. One is I have a cleaning company. I clean buildings, schools, shels, um office buildings. I have crews that go out and clean. And my second job, Rev Heineman, um started in 1980 a security organization. He and some others started a security organization. there was a security issue in Baltimore and someone ran it till 2000. He asked me to take over after 2000 and um that's how I became close with him also because a lot of many questions that would happen as far as security um I would ask him. So it's been a very beautiful relationship for many years. So writing is not your professional career and yet you you have written other books over the years and now you've written a brand new art school book. How did you get into that field of writing? When did you know that you have that uh talent and ability? So, I never knew that I had the talent. And I'm only having the talent because you're telling me I have the talent. But actually, um you know, you're asking for the story behind the story, I guess. What is um you know you you Rabbi Hinger you work here and you work in a very exciting place and you're involved in Torah questions and sorum being written and authors every day you have a very exciting life and I assume most people here have that kind of exciting life but most of us who work in janitorial or other business IT we struggle sometimes to get into the excitement of life when we're involved in what we're doing. So u many years ago I tried to create that excitement. Um I I enjoy hala. I like learn I've always learned hala and there was one particular part of hal which I felt needed my help that if there's um um some kind of a on chabas if there is a uh um involved someone is struggling for something people around standing around look at each other like do we do we call on the phone? Do we drive him to the hospital? People are never sure because I'm not going to be the one Shabas. So I felt that was one area I would start seeing myself grow and getting excitement in. So I started to write about nephesh. Um there are different categories and I put together a pamphlet with Rev Heinman. I asked him to help me. He was excited to help me and I put together a pamphlet and everybody loved it. Subsequently, I put together 20 other pieces muka electricity on chabas and other things not to do with chabas ended up putting out a safer 15 years later guide to halas. So I accomplished what I set out to I was excited in what I was doing had nothing to do with my work but my side thing that's how I was enjoying it. I was enjoying and in fact when I was coming to New York when I was coming here yesterday um I got a phone call someone's in the hospital reading my safer and he said a certain thing but it doesn't seem to make sense and I it makes sense I said you know something that's technology technology has changed in 15 years you're right it does not apply anymore so that's the kind of thing I am very fortunate that I was able to get into that niche of doing things that I like so now getting to this you yeah you were writing more on but now you've kind of changed course into what would you call this new book is it more hashkafa more how would you qualify it it's definitely heskafa so when I finished that safer a few months later I said okay let me try something in hashkafa that I can again invigorate excite myself with I didn't know the topic that I was looking for uh rabbi David Ashir had just come out with living ama and um many years ago. He had a few and then he came to Baltimore to speak and it was very exciting. I enjoyed what he said uh on Amuna and the um says you have if you're a balamuna you have that's not a bad thing to get not a bad thing. So I fig okay let me try amuna but then what's the venue what am I what am I is am I learning the first time in the Torah that it says anything about amuna the heashem it's hashem says says witness says he had amuna's going to be the person and little by little hashem got me into the the uh the test the asernis so So I started to learning it. Now when I started learning it, you have to understand I never expected 5 years later sitting here in arts girl to be talking to you about that safer. I was learning it for myself. No other reason just learning it. Now when you say you were learning it, did you have a regimen? Were you just learning? Were you learning the mafara? What was your approach to learning about the tennis? Okay, so that's a very good question. You can learn it on so many different levels. Of course, but the midrashim the backbone is the meda pile shimoni all the basic midrashim on the subject and some of the rishonin the raman and I wo them together to create this safer and this narrative that's what it is and after about five tests I realized that this this work is so fundamental And it's so enjoyable that I think I need to start writing this stuff and let me see where it goes. So initially you weren't writing, you were learning it. Just learning it. LMA lashma and then a few years later you started putting your thoughts into writing, right? And what what was the format that you decided you were going to use as you were writing? What was the approach? So the approach was I use the peri who has each nion but he also gives explains what the nan was not just the background explaining how it happened but he says in the first nion he had um greater amuna and the second is he explains what they are so I used him as the the background but I use all the other madrasim to weave in their side of what they felt happened what what did say what did surah say so that they complemented each other that was the that was the basis of it the majim were the basis adding in rishonim that will clarify when necessary now you say it's fundamental learning about the ten what why is that and how would that apply practically to anyone watching this conversation and mit they'll go and buy the book how does it apply practically to their life dayto-day people are going through all different types of their ownness very different than Abramavinu's tenis. How would you say that that translates? So, of course, these are all very good questions and um we Araminu was the greatest of the great how do we fit in in Aramavino's life? But the fact is we're all going to go through Nissionas. Every one of us of went through more difficult nissas, but we're all going through on our levels nonas. There is no difference between my my nan on my lower level than someone else someone else's. So if someone it is so important to know that God cares about us and it's so important to know that what he's doing for us is really for our best and if we look at if we learn about aroma he was the happiest person in the world you would never know that he was told to she's son if you read you don't read this from the pukim the pukim don't tell us much much of the background ground of Ram they go through the the raw steps of he did this he did that he did this and he did that but we don't see the sim we don't see the enjoyment we don't see the hashem I love you no matter what you tell me that we don't see from theim and that's why the midrashim and mishonim are so important to learn about so we see really what he was feeling and really how it applies to us from the from you don't see how it applies to us came here he went and then he he had a and then he changed his name. Okay, what does it have to do with Shakar? But when you start reading that when he was about when he had his test with Sor being taken by Pyro and he's crying to Hashem, well, I'm also crying to Hashem. Maybe not the same way, but I have a test that I'm about to approach this difficult thing that I know is going to happen to me today. And and what should I say? What should I do? I may not have the same words as a Ramavino, but I'm going to dive into Hashem. And by seeing it continually each nion at every different time, how his words and how he speaks to Hashem that applies to me. It applies very much to me. Did you find that certain specific niss of Abrainu could provide very specific to certain contemporary Nissianness? you know, was there any parallel that you found? Uh, that's a difficult thing for me to say. I'm not really sure. Mhm. Not really sure. It's um Amuna, of course, and just um well, if you go through each of them, he he has he has troubles with let's say Yeshal, right? Ishmal's asked to be sent away. That's that sort of applies today also how we have children sometimes that we may have to send away. So there is information there and this feeling of how have Rum dealt with it. So yes, there's a lot to co from what he did. You have to sit down and look asking on one foot. It needs to be looked at, but there is plenty there that applies today going through these tennis and especially delving into the midrashim as you did. Was there one or two revelations? Was there an epiphany that you had that you saw something that maybe you had never seen before that totally reframed the way you looked? That this we'll call it a sugia. the suga of the tennis. So um as you just said this is a suga but it's a tremendous is a tremendous for and whoever will read my book and I say my book but it's really the Torah I if I would have written a fiction book with names and plots it's my book it's not my book these are there is practically nothing in there of Nakman Shakar one or two small things that if said I could write I wrote otherwise doesn't put his opinion anywhere that's what's very unique about this is some a few but mostly so it's not really my work it's the Torah so it's all in there and whoever's going to read it will react to it will feel whatever applies to them so what I say it applies to me, someone else is for sure going to say, "Well, look at that and I see this applies to me." But as far as what's an epiphany, I would think that something that I mentioned before that when you see, you don't really see that Abra is talking to Hashem. He talks to Hashem and in the Hashem speaks to him and a little bit in um by the seventh test by um but one thing you see from the is all day all day is talking to Hashem in whatever it is every step he takes we say in um I'm not we say in um by a tinus at the end of the Um we say where did he call out to Hashem? You look in the Pik looks it doesn't say anywhere. He he was asking for anything. Hashem totally bring it brought brought up doesn't say anything. But if you read the midashim he's talking to Hashem from the time he left. He's asking Hashem every day this what can I do here? this happened. Whatever it was, he's talking to Hashem the whole way because he was in commune with Hashem the whole time. So that to me is something that really made an impression. Um like we used to hear um the pashida the the mamas lived in Europe. They woke up in the morning and said, "Hashem, please put food on my table. Please help my children." Did they go to Bakov? Did they go to Surir? No, they had the push of the moon because they spoke to Hashem. Reading the madrashim brings you back that to talk to Hashem to talk to Hashem. I think that's a great takeaway if there's something people could learn from this is that there is that need to talk to like a like a father because he is one. Yes. And I think you would agree and I I could say from sitting in this chair and the conversations we've had in this room so many books on have come out and there seems to be such a tremendous thirst out there especially today maybe more than ever for and what you've done here with this safer this book is you've gone really back to the very first person you've gone to the source so to speak the first person to recognize on his and the first person to speak to in that in that way and uh and someone who went through tremendous tremendous challenges and came out on the other side uh you know so to speak with fly with flying colors. So that's human. Let me just clarify. Other recognized Hashem, right? Others no recogniz. So we can't take away from them. I I understand I'm so because they're those going to say, "Well, what about them?" So we're not take away but Arau was in his own league. Araino Clausil came from Aram, not from the others. They were great people there in Ghana. But Aramino started Clausil. He was in a whole different league of knowing Hashem. He's the first one who Hashem said, um, you know, I am. Um, Abraham said, "Okay, I'll walk through fire for you." No one else till then walked through fire for Hashem. It was a whole different hakur over knew and and and thought and that's where we come from because it's a whole different level. Wow. As we wrap up, any final thoughts that you want to share about uh this this book specifically? Um I hope that people will buy it and um this was written the narrative was written for simple people who want to read it as a book. I I have a novel. I'll take this novel. I'll take I'll try the 10 tests to eternity. It could be written as a novel. It could it could be read as a novel. It can be read as someone who wants to internalize some of the limudim some of the what's written in the book. It's also written for the uh the Tammuda scholar. The Tamuda scholar shouldn't say I know too much. You do know too much but there's more than a narrative. I wrote the book with insights. insights are uh the come to know did know that they were or that they were human beings. Okay, it's a question. It's well if they were malim why are you feeding them food and how could we learn from that's a question insights answer that the one of the uh it says that the the calf the the animal that took was it was created of shabas well why have to be creative of chabas what's the difference moral answers that it's in an insight meaning this is something extra credit you don't have to read it it's going to be on the bottom but If you want to learn the safe and read the safe, you will find even if you're read even you'll find things that probably you haven't read before. So I think that's an important point that you brought up that the book um from going through in a manuscript. I noticed that it is very much approachable. You know some people might think a book tennis raino that's going to be way above my league and you know above my pay grade maybe I should try something else. But you put it down in very very contemporary terms. um with relatable analogies and really doing it in a way that any person, man, woman, child, no matter what their station in life, could really glean tremendous and direction from it. And uh I'm sure that's going to be the feedback that you'll hear as the book gets out there and as you spread that message of am. May I say one more thing? Of course. You have close to a hundred stories, contemporary stories never heard before. That was very fortunate. Again, I'm not a writer and I'm not a story person. It came stories that people relating to a is one thing, but relating to your fellow friend who lives in your city around because I have the names of the people who would happen to real names. Real real names. So it really happened and people can relate to that in a different way. In a different way. We have stories from those who left Iran. two long stories. One that left in the hot desert of 120 degrees and the other one that left in the middle of the winter with six feet of snow walking through rivers, literally freezing rivers which are closed on their head. There's a lot of interesting stories, stories that people will find that they can learn from a lot. Well, Kote, thank you for taking the time to write the book. Thank you for sharing it with Israel and people will gain tremendously from it. Thank you for coming in. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. [Music]