Inside ArtScroll Season 2 Episode 3: The Murder of 6,000,000 Through the Eyes of One: Interview w...

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. We're joined today by Rabbi Ysef Kaim Golding, the author of Faith Amid the Flames, as well as a longtime Askin, an activist for the from community in many different capacities. Perhaps we'll get into that. So, Rabbi Golding, give our viewers a little background into your upbringing, your early years, who influenced you. Whoa. Well, this interview is supposed to be about my father-in-law. So in short uh basically uh I was a regular turvidas guy as they say who barak hashem uh had a rebi by the name of rebum who basically in influenced me that whatever I was going to do uh with my life I should be able to look back and feel that I accomplished something. um back uh through term courses that I took. Um and then we all of a sudden Jeep came into the picture and Barasha had discuss of co-founding Jeep Jewish education program uh together with Rabbi Matiatz at that time it was Matic um and from there I joined the National Office of Agura of America uh back in January of 81 and it was a wildwide pride and um Barak Hashem we were able to accomplish lots of things in those years. It was around 26 years uh including uh becoming the CEO of the Sume Hashas starting in 1990. Um it was a lot of fun also and [Music] um in around 2006 I'm estimating I believe um I became executive director of RCCS Roa Cancer Society and Barak Hashem it's a tremendous accomplishment um and these days I'm doing this things on my own see RCCS different projects and And I had the opportunity to have uh to be able to write this book, something that I discussed with my late father-in-law 20 some odd years ago. And Barashem um the reviews have been way way way beyond my expectations. And um Barashem really really really happy that that I did it. I think it's a big for him. And I think more so is the fact that people are finding out about the Kadoshim, what they went through and how they survived um in a way that possibly they didn't know before. and um that you know the the the sales have been tremendous but the reviews and the phone calls and the people stopping me um I'll tell you one of my friends or Biancle Bender from Dark who we worked together in the Agodo office for a short period of time at five Beakman Street and um he was talking at a wedding and I snuck up behind him he didn't see me and I said to him. Rabbi Bender, stop making so much noise. Some of us are trying to sleep here. He turns around. He says, "Golding, I read the book. It should be required reading for every member of Cla." It's a free ad. So, you know, and and I've gotten calls um Rashiva David Goldberg of tells member of Gdal Atura called me up. How do you get my phone number? I have no idea. He says he just read the book Rashiva and he's going to speak about it at his chuvader before. I mean things like this I never imagined that that that was going to happen. Um and I've gotten lots of calls from Rabbi Aram Foyer uh son-in-law of Rav GIFA and was my RAV in Muny for many years. He called me up. he called and he said, "You should not refer to it as a book. It's a Musa safer." And um I've gotten it just doesn't stop. So Barak Hashem um the sales are great, the reviews are great, and I have some future plans that maybe we'll talk about uh a few minutes from now. But what's interesting is that growing up myself in the late 80s, 90s, I remember Holocaust books coming out all the time. And I think after that, and correct me if I'm wrong, after that, I think as time has gone on, I think fewer and fewer books on the Holocaust are coming out, maybe because everything's been said or written. Um, and then this book came out. Do you agree with that? that over the last 10-15 years there aren't as many Holocaust books and this was kind of uh kind of an anomaly. Um there was a time where there were there was an influx um of such books. Um I I I don't really know. You're talking to someone who was born in America, whose father was born in America. My father was in the American army during World War uh two. He didn't go overseas, but he he was in the army. Um, so I'm so Americanborn. And to me, the whole concept of the Holocaust and and and the Nazis Shamom was something that I learned in my later later teenage years. And Hashem Kadesh has his sense of humor. and uh he was Mashadi with the the daughter of Rabul Frieden and you know it's it's it was a little bit of an intermarriage between uh you know an American and and and and aided family and and Barak Hashem uh it's it's it's we we have no complaints. So I wanted to ask you about that you grew up in Brooklyn. No, right west side west side west side. So you traveled to Brooklyn to go to Tarvadas. Yes. And what did your what did your parents do? Oh, what did my parents do? My my father was in various businesses. The Golding family although really not connected to us way back were very big in real estate before and also Golding Brothers textiles before the Great Depression. Mhm. Um so the Golding family has been in America for since before World War I. Uhhuh. So um um my father had a a gladkasha deli on 86 and Broadway for 11 years uh which he hardly stepped into. He had people running it. Uh he was involved in in in in commodities and stocks and things like that. And um he was nifted very young. And my mother was an American sadakus who um who was focused her work on beam together with the late Mrs. Khan of Mount Sai Hospital was just nifted and I was you know as as I said to you Hashem uh Raf Pam uh convinced me uh as I said before I don't want to repeat but you know do something that that I'll feel accomplished as he did as he did he called himself a diamond polisher he says we take we rebum we take raw uncut diamonds in first grade second grade third grade fourth grade whatever it is and we polish them and we're making and then you look back 40 50 years later and you see the piris of your work. I mean bar hashem I mean it's it's fantastic. I mean I don't uh you know but but again this interview is not about me. The interview is about is about my who uh I I think was an anomaly because he spoke about his experiences in World War II. Well, you constantly hear many people saying that, "Oh, they don't talk about it or they refuse to talk about it." Um, but that's what's interesting to me. You're a son-in-law, but people who know you and have seen you interact with your father-in-law, Allah, Allah, and and and now you put out a book, you were like a son to him and and and you you have tremendous admiration for him. When you got married, when the shik was read, did you know about Rabisa Frieden? Did you know him as the editor of Dasia de Shavar? Did you know that he was kind of a legend in his in his own way? You're you're asking very difficult questions. You know, this was supposed to be easy. I I knew that he was one of the leaders of the Aguda. Um, the fact that I was involved with Jeep back in the early 70s, I uh produced the first four Jeep records and uh I actually spoke at uh and I go to convention before I was married and the chairman of the session was Rabiosa Frieden. Um and um I really did I knew he was one of the heads of the AODA. certainly didn't know about his background, you know, his the suffering that he went through. But the thing about Rabasa Frieden Allah Shalom is that he focused on the positives. He didn't focus on the terrible things and he didn't push about the atrocities. He focused on the positive of claustrol of how they reacted with the kdesh hashem within the suffering of the holocaust. And that's why um many years ago I said to him, you know, we should write a story about your life. Excuse me. And he said and I interviewed him. It was in Miami Beach. He had a small apartment that he inherited in Miami Beach. And we sat for I think it was three nights, two hours each night. So I I taped him with a cassette tape recorder. Um what year is this? 70s, 80s. 80s 80s. 80s. Um and I don't Most of the people here don't even know what cassette tape recorders are. It's a cassette. It's a cassette. It's okay. Um and I put it on tape and I had it transcribed. Um, and it was six hours worth and a lot of work had to go into it because it wasn't really step by step by step by step. It wasn't it wasn't chronolog it needed it needed a tremendous total rewrite and so I kept that all all the time and I discussed it with him and I would do a sample table of contents of what I would do if I wrote wrote his book and it never happened. It never happened and never came to fruition. And then um around around 6 years after his he was he was nifa and shabar I think the English year was 2013. It was the year after the 2012 cm ashas at metife stadium. Um in fact he suffered a stroke that night on his way to to the um he was shown on the video. um uh where he spoke about the third sash that he celebrated upon being released from Bhimva. Um and um I had some time on my hands and I collected from I mean without the help of Mrs. Likenstein of of of Project Witness uh and I did it and and and Rabbi Aram Bernbalam and people who wrote and had uh interviews with him and stories throughout the years and some of which is included in the book. Most of it is included in the book. I didn't write I didn't make up stories in the book. This is him speaking. I which is interesting. The book is written in first person almost like a memoir which just wasn't released during his lifetime. Absolutely. Absolutely. It was a big discussion whether that should be done that way. Um, and had you come to the decision to do it the way you did because I wasn't there. I didn't make anything up. It's all him. Yes. I enhanced the English. I put everything into the correct order. I I was more of a of a master editor than an author. But uh and and and it worked. And people criticize me at the beginning. He says, "How can you write an autobio autobiography? Must be written by the person who's writing." But it's him. It's all his words. Mhm. Um and and I don't regret the decision at all. Not at all. I've heard from people that they appreciated that it still had the flavor of your father-in-law because it's in his words. It's him. It's not me. I like like I said to you, this interview is is is him. It's you know and um and you know maybe towards the end of this interview I'll tell you about some of my thoughts about expanding upon this and getting this uh I mean for example the secular world even our world even our generation second third fourth generation we're getting further and further away from the atrocities of World War II my own grandchildren children, the younger ones didn't really know him. Mhm. We need to get the people to understand the the greatness of Clausal there in in in in during the war. Um, one of my dreams and we're looking for funding now and I discussed this with uh Rab Ladawitz at Arts Girl. One of my dreams is to rewrite the book for secular Jews for for Eden maybe not even Eden but more modern who do not understand the lingo of what's aid what is what is trafe what is you know etc and the the book would be called the murder of three million through the eyes of one. People don't understand. What do you mean six million? How can they fathom what 6 million is? Take a a a sports arena. I don't care. Barkley Center, Madison Square Garden, Credential Airlines. I don't I don't care. Credential Airlines. No, it's Credential Center. Used to be Continental. Used to Continental Airlines. Okay. Metife Stadium, right? Well Well, Metife is is you're talking about 90,000. Even take 20,000. Take a stadium that has 20,000. If Khas there would ever be a disaster at a arena like that for 20,000 I mean we wouldn't be we wouldn't stop talking about it for for hundreds of years. So 6 million wasn't 20,000. Take 20,000 do five stadiums you still only be 100,000. Do the math till you get to a million. And if you count one, two, three, four, it's it's an impossible way to even think about it. And that's why there were three million Polish Jews who were killed. And the murder of three million through the eyes of one should resonate with these people. Um, we're, you know, we're actively looking for major funding. This is obviously not, you know, not something uh that's that's simple to attain. We're talking about government. We're talking about because there are a lot of people, excuse me, there a lot of people out there who really want to get this message out. Um and you know, my my wife very often would say, "Sure, they suffered." And he suffered, but he never used to say, "They beat me." He used to say, Unslugen. They beat us. Everything was in us. I mean, there's a story in the book. He was in the Warsaw ghetto. It was freezing cold. It was snow all over the place. He volunteered to shovel the streets so that his father, Ablaz Gersian Frieden, didn't have to do it. He went, he lined up. They smacked him around. They beat him. They took off his coat. He shoveled for 10 hours straight. This is not a person like, you know, a 220 pound bodybuilder. He was a a very frail uh thin individual and and and and then they beat him when he finished 10 hours later and they said, "Come back tomorrow." Of course, he somehow know Hashem gave him the thought. He gave a fake name. He gave a fake address. He didn't show up. He couldn't show up. He was in bed for a week. He couldn't move for a week. Would you I been able to do this? I I I So where did he get that strength of spirit? And he was a giant of spirit during the war and after the war. He had the ability to talk about things, which is an interesting point that many of the survivors could not open up. And he seemed to have that ability to put it all out there. He was never inhibited about it. I'm not sure the answer. I can tell you that he certainly had an upbringing growing up in the house of Lasagen Frieden who was killed in the Warsaw ghetto at age 42. So everything you heard about laser gastron freed and his work inconis and everything all was done before in in right before before um I I don't really have the the total answer but I could tell you in terms of surviving and their will to survive um Rabbi Fry Waxman who aside from being a love of mine he's a personal close friend since uh we grew up together his his brothers and and and I and I mentioned when he called me after he read the entire book and he said to me he complimented the book I says you know rebra I don't think you and I could have lasted a day and he said a day an hour we wouldn't have lasted an hour that's how we've responded so it's that's a hard answer I I don't know the cancer, but he definitely dedicated himself from the minute he was able to get out of bed in in in the hospital in Bkinvald where he was liberated by the American army and Lieutenant Bernbam uh said vidi with him. Of course, he didn't he says, "I don't know why you're saying vid." He says, "Well, when was the last time you said shama? Say I said shad this morning." I mean, he wasn't going anywhere, but he he I I can't answer how he was able to physically survive. I guess there was just a a certain mental spirit that he had. I could tell you that there's a vert that uh they say they quote from the bellba that every survivor had two mal watching over him. So we in our family we say my sh must have had four, you know, not two, four. And uh so how he did it and then the minute he was able he worked in a good cis of Munich. He started the aguda uh in in Europe. He was in in places called Felderfink and Lancing in in Munich. And when he came to America in 1951, um he was hired by the Aguda at the behest of the head of the Mets Gador at that time, Ruven Grosovski. and Ruven Gazowski felt that we were losing the survivors to the secular Yiddish press and we needed to put a a a a balance a counterbalance to the secular Yiddish press and that's basically how the Sideshart in America began. There was a dedart in Europe. This was here in America and um Mike Tress hired my share at the behest of Rivervu and Grosovski. And how many years did he car did he carry that role? 430 issues of the sedish of art. Um he was he a writer before he was hired for that? Did he was writer? He was a Yiddish writer. Uh yeah, he did it in Europe. He did it in Europe. um how many years he came here in 51 and he was nifa in 2013 and he never stopped. I mean even after he had a stroke and even after he lost most of the sight in one in in in in one of his eyes and etc. He would still we would read him manuscripts and he would correct manuscripts by listening uh at one point we had a big screen for him where was able to to uh with a a magnify uh this and then it reached a point where he couldn't do that either but um he never stopped he never stopped and uh and what's interesting is also English was not his mother tongue not at all he he came over to America not knowing a word of English right pretty much pretty much pretty much but he is good at languages. Well, obviously he was, which was what I'm getting at is that in later years, by the time I I I got to know him, you know, from hearing his speeches at the convention, he felt very comfortable speaking English. He was very articulate and and you know, he didn't seem uncomfortable about that. He was a smart man. Um, one of the ways he survived in in in Poland, uh, was the fact that he was fluent in German and in Yiddish and in Polish. And he acted as a translator uh, in a slave labor camp called Starkovitz uh, for the head of the camp whose name was Bruno Papa. Uh I can say this without any inhibitions that Bruno papa was a shalam one of the um it's highlighted in the book it's in the book it's a stories and is that the story that's one of the stories it's one of the stories story and and pes matis and pes and even when they had typhus how he brought oranges to my mother-in-law and fed her oranges uh to to to have her fight these diseases. He was he was an amazing amazing I mean matzas for pesak how in the world did they get flour it's all it was you know all all a a chain of nissim um for people and they did it and they did it they they baked matzas in 2000 degree ovens that they were using to to to to manufacture arms or you know for the war effort for the Nazi war effort you know you put in the the the the the the the the little piece of of flour for 3 seconds and pull it out before it's burned to a crisp. And they did. They had and and uh and one of we never found out what happened to Bruno Papa at the end of the war. We have no idea. Uh some of the family think he was sent to the front like most of the you know um but he was a member of the SA not the SS which is also paramilitary and he didn't wear a gun he didn't beat anybody he was um you know and there's story after story and the they were there for approximately two years in the slave labor in Stavitz and from there they went from Starkovitz they went to Avitz and um how many camps would your father Alto together what's the total at least five he was in he was in it depends how you call camps because sakovitz was slave labor but then he went to he went toruff that's the famous shindler's list he says that was the worst of all no food they beat you they made you run all day long dogs biting at your at your legs he was He he went he he w the main thing first he went to Ashvitz and then he was there for a while and the book is full of stories of how he survived Ashvitz with Sadik Sadikim who helped him uh Sadikis who helped my mother-in-law Rebbitson Orlon Saratskin Orlon um uh the all these stories are are in the book u and if you didn't buy it yet it's about time get out of finish this interview and go buy it Okay. Um, my favorite story in the book, which I actually I wrote after the book came out, is about the sweater, the an amazing story. If you could tell, for those who didn't read the story, it's indescribable. It's funny how you say it's your favorite story. I I there are so many stories. Um, when he was in Avitz and he was working with with another sadic of his, I think his name was Burin. Borstein um Aviar Burstein um and he came to my father-in-law and he said that uh when they were cleaning doing detail cleaning detail near the w women's camp in Ashvitz a young teenager seemed like you know asked for a sweater it was freezing cold in in Poland and Ashvitz and he uh they they were moist enoughish to get her a sweater And you know they had they were cleaning barracks and they found a sweater and they put it under under the clothes and they went and he this aza gave it gave it to the lady and he comes back with tears going down his eyes and he still had the sweater and my said what happened he says she didn't want a sweater she wanted a sidur she wanted a raship was coming up and she want She she thought that maybe in the men's camp they might be able to have some some sort of safer and she was asking for a sida not ava sidda sounds very similar and he said I'll try and get you but take the sweater no if I take the sweater you're not going to come back I need you to bring me the sitter the heroes they were they were heroes my friend Hoffman who wrote a book heroes of spirit I mean they were heroes they were heroes and that they you know that the the topic the title faith amid the flames which was coined by my good friend Manakim Labinsky Rabbi Manakim Labinsky um this was I don't know when we doing a a Holocaust uh project one video it was on VHS that's another thing that you won't know about and um and um when I asked him if I could use that name he says he can't think of anyone more appropriate uh of the word faith amid the flames. It's exactly what he personified amuna amidst the biggest torture. And um you know I I I feel very satisfied that I was able to do this for him. Um and uh we're going to continue continue. Talk for a moment. You worked for Dagod. You knew Rabbi Sher for example. Um, talk about the relationship that your father-in-law and yourself had with people like Rabbi Sher and how they helped him further his mission. Rabbi I consider Rabbi Sher to be uh my rebio of inconus. Um, I worked for him for 18 years. Um, my associate reb was bloom. He should live and be well. Um and Rabbi Sher was was first of all he was dedicated to no end. Um, his relationship with my father-in-law was amazing in that here you had this American orator who, you know, English writer and yet his best friend was Yasel Frieden and he didn't do much without conferring with Yasul Frieden. The people who know know that all the sheridan who joined the aguda in those years came as a result of the efforts of Mishv. Um certainly once they were there Rabbi Sher knew how to keep these people and that was the building up of the agu all those years. Um there's a very famous story uh I consider it famous where uh Rab Shere used to write in the sided shaver but he he didn't write it the my wrote it but they would discuss it and everything and one day in the office before I uh joined the ag um they were writing this article and Rabbi Sher uh picked himself up to get ready to leave. And my share said, "Rabbi Sher, we have to do some more on this." And Rabbi Sher said, "It's good enough." And my share says, "Oo, didn't you always teach us that good enough is not good enough?" So took off his jacket, sat down, they stayed there for another hour till it was perfect. So the relationship between uh Yel Frieden and Misha Sher was extremely special. Extremely special. Uh um I my work for Rabbi Sher I never knew what I was going to do next. You would come in sit down in my in my office. What was your what was your official job description at the time? Official or what my job description was? people till today people have no idea what I was what I was supposed to do. My title was I don't even know what my title was. Maybe I was in development. Um um I I did I did basically whatever needed to be done. Um, I had several titles that um I uh Rabbi Sher would come in, sit down, cross his leg, put his Jewish observer has been losing money for the last 10 years. I need you to take over the management of the Jewish observer. And I worked for 20 years together with Ramnissen Walpin Oliver Shalom. And I cannot tell you how much I missed that man. Rabbi Wen was he was such a wonderful person both behind the desk and not behind the desk. And um um we worked at the Jewish observer which was which was massive uh in terms of the sashas in 1990 uh when uh Yasf Rita um guaranteed Rabbi Sher that if he gets does it in Madison Square Garden if they lose any money he will make up for the loss of money. That's when Rab Sher asked me I went to Madison Square Garden. Um I found out at that time that it was not available. This is 1990. The circus had it. It was April 199. The Ringling Brothers, right? Ringling Brothers, Barnum Bailey Circus. And I did some research and I found out that I knew that Misher Aman Shalom was negotiating with building a new Madison Square Garden in the railards, which never happened. But there was a little G and W uh on the logo which stood for Gulf and Western which was Mish Rahman. I said to Rabbi came back said Rabbi Sher Rab Sher we can't get it the date but if you call Misha Rahman I'm sure some things could happen. A day didn't pass by that uh the president of Madison Square Garden, I think his name was Mendelson, showed up for lunch with Rabbi Chev in the office and he walked out and Rab Sh walks him afterwards to the elevator and I said, "No." He says, "Well, there's a legal stipulation that they can buy out the circus for that date." And I said, "No." So, we bought out the circus. And that's how that 1990 seem ended up in Madison Square Garden. Um you know after that 1997 was NASA Coliseum 2005 Continental Alliance Arena Javit Center Madison's Square Garden and of course 2012 and 20 January 1st of the of 20 Metife Stadium uh which was uh like I said a lot of fun. You can you can translate that word fun any way you want to, but um it certainly was was was How much sleep did you get ahead of the CMA? Tell tell us the truth. I I I don't want to say that I stayed up. I stayed up whatever had to be done. Um I even there was a there was a possibility of sleeping overnight at the stadium, you know, a few nights beforehand. It just wasn't necessary. It was done. The staffing was great. The the the the the staff at Metife Stadium is fantastic from the president and CEO down, Ron Vanine, uh straight down. I mean, you know, I dealt only with the heads of each department and [Music] um um we also had a an events uh uh company that, you know, we subhired or hired to do a lot of the like the staging and the some of the lights and the some of the sound etc. So, it was great. It was great. I actually did sleep. I did sleep. I actually did. The night after the CM, I didn't sleep too well. It was like you were on a high. I don't know if the word is high, but it was my my brain was definitely on overload. But other other than this book, would you consider your involvement as CEO of the CMA Shas to be your crowning achievement? How do I know? How do I know? How do I know? something small like and when there's a family of F people today because of Jeep who came to Borough Park in the in the 1970s and today they have children and grandchildren and and and and are learning in Kohl how do I know it's not for me to judge it's for theam to judge but I go back to my my thoughts about Raf Pam I have tremendous to him for putting me on that understanding ing and and I hope the listeners here if there are young listeners to to understand that you know when look become diamond polishes whatever it is whatever it is in your life you know do something that you're going to be able to look back and feel an accomplishment on behalf of behalf of their so so I was going to ask that you you you were exposed to worldclass aanum leaders they were rebuilding the Jewish community post World War II, 60s,7s, 80s, and you obviously learned a lot from them. What message would you give to the younger generation? You're kind of like the bridge between them and let's say my generation or even those younger than myself. What's the greatest piece of advice you ever got that you could pass on to them? Rabbi Sher. I once asked Rabbi Sher that question and his response was he thought for a second. He looked me straight in the face and says, "Don't just live for yourself, live for others." And that wrapped up the entire the entire conversation on I would say to the people out there don't just live for yourself live for others because and if you live for others you will be you will feel so much accomplishment. One of the things that bothers me a mazer is that we don't really have training forum and I wish we could um uh I went to David's rebel I mean uh turvas west side boy turvas boy a lawyer and look what he's done for now if if you had your brothers and let's say funding wasn't an issue What what would you do to cultivate a cadre of of Askanim of the next generation of activists? What would you do? I'd say we would discuss this on a different interview when I have some time to think about it because uh it it it definitely uh it's it all boils down to to money. If you're going if if you're raised with the idea that I have to become an accountant or I have to become a lawyer because I have to support a family and I have to pay tuition and and everything. If money wasn't an issue then you know the focus really should shift just like there's a whole training department for Rabonam through whether it's through touro or through the or this other there should be an asanis training program and I believe it can be done I believe it could happen it would take a lot of uh cash influx but you know that's what I think needs to be done and it it bothers me it bothers me because an Oscan should be choice one not okay I became an Oscan because I failed in something else and by the way I never consider myself an asking it just happened I mean that no somebody once said to me you're an Oskin I says I am that's not I'm really you know basically that's the way I feel do something what Rabbi Sher said don't just live for self live for others that from Rabbi Sher my rebi in Askconus and Raf Pam when he spoke about the diamond polishing my my my real rebi I think that's the message I would like like to leave to cla I think humbly that with all the comfort creatures that we have I think young families fathers and mothers are more harried today than they've ever been and I think that that doesn't give enough open space in their mind to think more broadly. Young families are barely surviving financially. They're barely surviving just emotionally getting through the day, taking care of their families, housing costs, tuition costs, different pressures, shookham pressures. It's it's it's this unending race and somehow in a weird way I think that maybe in the 70s and 80s things were calmer and maybe people were able to think more broadly. Do you think that's an accurate depiction? I agree with the first part, the first part that that it's very hard to survive in this day and age financially. Um I don't know if it was easier in the 60s and 70s. I don't know if that's true. Um, but you said if money wasn't an object, if somebody would come and say, "Well, I want to uh put x amount of million dollars into the into into this training and we would be able to and if a person wouldn't have to worry about, you know, spending x amount of years uh in in in training for a panaser, perhaps there there would be more. It it it also needs dedication. There has to be a certain amount of dedication. You can't just say, "Okay, should I become an accountant, a lawyer, or an Oscin?" Even I'll admit it doesn't always work that way. So, um um I I you know, in reality, I don't know if it's ever going to happen. It probably also takes a certain personality. I don't know if necessarily you could train everyone to have that. You couldn't train everyone but you have to take the right people and then kind of channel their strengths and their interests towards working on behalf of the claw. Absolutely. But there are people out there who can do this. There are people there are people I mean there are some great people in Agodisol and who have dedicated their lives and have done tremendous tremendous accomplishments. So um and not just tag auda term misora whatever I mean I these are the ones that I'm more familiar with but there there there are others I mean I would even say people who working on in in art scroll the misora heritage foundation the people working on the shas and and and and all these I mean is that not accomplishment absolutely absolutely so I mean I I I uh when I was talking about a possibility of a of a of another book about about uh uh well I'm not going to give it away but uh till until it's official until it's copyrighted um but uh a good dafomi and art scroll what better you know what better team can you can you think about you know so you know I'm not being p I'm not being paid extra for to push art school I'm just letting you know that but it's true everything I said today is true almost everything but it True. They these entities and the people involved all have the same mission to be to do what they can for the Jewish people. Absolutely. And and to bring to Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, circling back to the book you alluded to before that you have a plan to broaden and to do more. Tell us more about that. it would take a hefty uh influx of sponsorship which I don't think is going to come from the from community. Um I have begun to make contacts with people who have contacts with the secular community. uh uh there whether it's I mean for for example the book itself the book should be in the hands of 10,000 day school raham and teachers throughout the United States every rebi every teacher every day school uh teacher moa from fourth grade and up should have this book should read this book which will give them people a a a a dera of being able to give over of what happened. Not what happened, not the suffering, but the keshm within the suffering, which is the most important part of of my father-in-law's legacy. For for people who are a little bit more secular or even not Jewish, then the book needs a total rewrite. total rewrite with I mean you can't just talk about Ludge without talking about the whole history of Poland and what was Poland and who lived in Poland and etc. And you can't just talk about Cristan without talking about what the Nazi party was in the 1931 32 and how Hitler rose to power etc. It's a total rewrite. M um and that's why you know we wouldn't it wouldn't be faith in the flames but as I said the murder of three million through the eyes of one and it you know I'm not sure if it would be in written in first person uh as this book is I'm not that's I was going to ask you did you consider or have you shared it let's say with the Holocaust Museum with Yadvashm people who are involved in disseminating information about the Holocaust so that they could have this first person account to enhance whatever message they're already sending. The answer is yes. Yes. Yes. They all have it and they all appreciate it. With the Holocaust Museum in Washington, Yadvashm certainly um and there are others. There are scholars, Holocaust scholars like Michael Baronbam um um another name Rafel Rafel Maidoff people who are they all have the book they've all uh read it. They've all commented on it. But that's not the next step as to get it out to the secular world. It needs a rewrite. Um, and if anybody has any ideas, possibly I don't know, maybe the claims conference. I don't know what what that means these days. Um, uh, there's been so many metamorphoses of, you know, of the of that so many change. So if somebody has any idea can reach me through artscrow as an example of uh my father-in-law's message to the world um I think we have a 60-second clip that was recently recently shown on a meaningful minute. I think your viewers would appreciate will appreciate watching this short clip. Absolutely. Let's take a look. There are many times that my children or my grandchildren are asking me zi what does it all mean? What do we what do we all learn from this? Uh what should we learn from this? Well, I have a lot of answers, but my main answer is you just know that we are a unique people, an eternal people, indestructible. And not only that, we are, we also should be. And this is our destiny to be a unique people in our behavior. our behavior with our fellow men, fellow friends, non friends, with everyone just to keep up the that and that we have to try to be as close to him as possible. Any closing message as we conclude our conversation? Well, first of all, uh you know, my appreciation to Art Scroll for publishing the book, my appreciation to you for inviting me, uh to come down, uh here today. Um we've covered a lot. I can only say that um um I I I look forward to expanding upon this and other uh type of of of books and um benches. We should be gaz and we should get rid of this terrible pandemic and um and we should be z as they say in French to gaze. Well, thank you firstly for your decades of work on behalf of Israel, many more decades. Amen. Whether it's through Mashas or like you mentioned Jeep and other wonderful undertakings and the Jewish observer, so many different uh you've touched so many different aspects of the Jewish community. And right now a special thank you for bringing your father-in-law's eternal message of hope and faith. The message of you know is to us to the younger generation in a language that we understand and we could appreciate and the book will continue to be well received. I appreciate that. Thank you very much and to you and to everybody else here uh in this beautiful beautiful arts girl new headquarters in Rowway, New Jersey. Thank you. [Music]