Inside ArtScroll Season 2 Episode 19: Interview with Rabbi Yonah Weinrib

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today we are joined by prolific artist and author Rabbi Yona Weinre. Thank you Rabbi Wininri for coming down to Art School. My pleasure. and we're here to talk about many things but first of all your brand new release the childhood treasury let's start there just tell our audience what the new book is about and uh you know how much work went into it it's exciting uh this was my co project and uh over the course of the last number of months it really completed a series I started with a book years back uh the Renet family commission a book on bar mitzvah which went back the uh to the 90s for Mr. Renard's son Ari and we started I worked together with good friend and colleague Rabbi Yako Solomon we created a book about bar mitzvah the history the customs the stories theos about bar mitzvah we evolved from there um I did the work sub subsequently on bach mitzvah which another segment so we actually have here the bach mitzvah treasury the bar mitzvah treasury and the wedding treasury yes and that that really completes the cycle but I had never had an opportunity to do the first part of uh of life which represents from birth till barbach mitzvah. Uh it was an exciting endeavor. where the Halpern family commissioned the work and it really deals with everything of life cycle celebrations from that the period of time even before birth uh before a child is born what are the concepts what's happening uh and we go through the different things based on kavas and the research and the background and the history and of course artwork which deal with the different uh aspects of life before the child is born once the child is born uh and the different stages of development uh including Kdish for a girl uh bris Shalom Zar the uh different aspects of pigeon haben uh upsharon if that's for those who keep the custom and many many areas of kinuk including aspects of uh professional perspectives on kinuk we've dealt with some of the major educators and people who were in the field of kinukh uh including the contemporary ones as well as this the uh the ash kodesh the psa rebis Kondo who authored volumes about and discussing how you can give the to children uh of every era and it's something it was something which was certainly applicable uh then back in the Warsaw ghetto uh and hundreds of years earlier and uh today as well we deal with stories uh also dealing with different segments of bris and uh raising children and it was a phenomenally exciting work getting to see all the different aspects coming together. It's nearly 300 pages. Uh, and I worked together with my son Rabbi Aram Winre and my son Rabbi Binyaman Wineb and of course the graphic artistry of my daughter Yunina Hartstein who'd helped design and create and formatting of all the books has added a tremendous dimension to the completed work as well. Seeing seeing their childhoods growing up uh made it that much more impressive was really dedicated to all of my children hashem uh each successful in their own right and uh seeing the childhood come to fruition uh as a book for was very very meaningful for me. Now your works are very very unique almost unlike anything that we see in the from world. It's really your your work is one of a kind. Your your art which is complemented by your scholarly writings but take us back a bit. You've been doing this I think 45 years approximately. Yeah. Um firstly where did you grow up? What were the influences in your youth? The uh it's interesting that I started out of town. Out of town means out of New York, out of Lakewood, out of any of the big cities. My parents um were survivors. Uh I consider myself a survivor as well. They went through the concentration camps. My father went through Awitz. He was grew up in Petrickov in Poland uh where the where mayor Shapiro was the r of the city. I was fortunate to go back together with some of my sons to Petrov. This past summer uh we went back to the place where my father grew up and was saved also from he was literally saved uh miraculously from the ghetto in Petraov. uh later sent to Awitz and then they they had these the stamina, the amuna, the will to continue to to to build and he and my mother were married in the DP camps in Germany. They came over to to Connecticut. Why Connecticut? Why New Britain? Connecticut of all places. Uh that was a city that was willing to take in refugees. They were the first refugees in New Britain. And uh my sister who was born in Germany in the DP camps came along also uh to America, the new country. They spoke no English. And uh it's interesting that my mother Alashalam saved a report card from kindergarten in New Britain, Connecticut. And the teacher, I must say, she was very perceptive. She said that Yona is a quiet and dependable child and he works well in art and he expresses himself with clever and mature ideas in art and language. Wow. From a for a for a 5-year-old kid to be uh noticed. I guess at some point there was something which was there. But uh I enjoyed art from early on. But again, it's a hobby. It's not not something which really can be taken uh to be done as a career. Uh I I took a detour later on. But I think the the where it begin began to take shape really was in high school. And I think that very often that really Where was that? Where did you go? I was in yeshiva Philadelphia. Okay. and uh a day school kid who left after 8th grade to go to the the uh the Big Yeshiva Philadelphia. And and I think very often that the the two loves that I have, the love of learning and the love of art really came together uh as I get a got a deeper appreciation for for learning on a serious level, a day school is a day school and and I makato very much for the uh influences that they gave me as a child. We learned dict actually in in day school which was certainly helpful and um working with uh in in within the faculty uh of the school was helpful but you have to be prepared for learning as a as a toad in yeshiva and a major yeshiva like Philadelphia. And as I began to learn more of course my doodling took on a different thing. People remember they used to doodle on the sides of my uh my notebook. Um but the love of the learning, the love of the letters and the and the really the calligraphy was really the first part of my uh venture into the into the field. The the letters were something which are fascinating. the the tourist the uh the formation of the letters in a safer tora the the exactitude that you have to have. Um but again there's there's no artwork in the safer Torah. It's very very exacting uh in in some way it's because of the the strict nature of the letters. There's no artistic expression in in working with um with the safer Torah. But uh the letters and the the meanings of the letters, the examples of the letters, the uh part of the learning Tanakh was something which is also very pivotal and Tanakh and Medish all came together and when you see the the the vastness of of what Kazal have to offer uh it's overwhelming and then uh as I worked with that I began to do work in the field uh in calligraphy. I think the first uh this was this was still when you were single as a bach I was a bach yeah yeah it was a bach I started doing some uh some doodling some sketching some uh any any formal training or was this just all it's a gift from u the uh I certainly camp was a was a factor there's no question that that most u most people don't have an opportunity to express themselves artistically or musically or or dramatically uh until they get to camp surely not in yeshiva right not in yeshiva No, not uh it's something that being in camp I was in camp TV uh for a few years B Sham was the color artist we lost but uh yeah the the the opposing artists were uh Nitto Gold Brener and Shia Marowitz of Goldmark fame they created a a tremendous graphics company uh very successful um I went my own track and so was something which uh but we were together in camp uh being in color war I uh I believe Nuti introduced me to the first instrument that could be used as a calligraphy pen. I wasn't familiar with the thing. I was doing my own my own studies and uh it was an eye openener to me and you could do it a stroke with a a nib a calligraphic tool uh to help me create the letters that I wanted to and then one one part of it was the was the art and the music was something which is uh perhaps we'll get to a little bit later which also gave gave rise in in camp turvidas. So it was an exciting period but uh again that's that's a hobby but you're a bacher and you're dabbling in art we would say was there a point where you said you know what this could really become a career this is my passion but maybe I could do this for a living not really it's something that uh you know I I love doing it but I said how will the opportunity ever present itself uh in art again that there's a there's a notion of the starving artist right the starving artist let me ask you we don't talk about starving doctors the starving lawyers. But there is an expression the starving artist which almost gives um the impression that artists are passionate about pursuing their their talent or whatever whatever it might be even at the expense of making a living. Exactly. And part of it is interesting when I some years back um I met someone who uh who'd seen my work and different things. He'd seen some of the publications, some of the artwork. Uh he'd never met me before. and he saw me and he said, "Rabbi Wininri," he said, "I'm very disappointed." I said, "Okay." I thought maybe it was a piece of art that was offensive to him. He said, "No." He said, "You're an artist, but you're you're you're normal." What does that what does that mean? It's something that I think that the the impression of the artist with the with the beret and the long hair and the and the ripped dungarees. It gives the impression and of course the sandals uh gives you the understanding of an artist has to be someone who's who's who lives in his own little bubble, kind of added a main. Exactly. and and not not being connected to reality. Parnosa can come you can skip meals because it's just a necessary you know evil that you have to eat but you have to get the work done and there's no question there is a passion about creating it's something which is it's a phenomenally exciting and uh and I think when people ask me about the different types of work that I've done and the ones that are most exciting for me it's where the the images of Khazal and the medish work together with a visual image and they come together as a seamless hole It's it's phenomenal. And I think that that really part of the work that I've hoped to create is to to give rise not to my vision of the art but to Kazal visions of the art and and something which is so the imagery the the misholim that you'll find throughout Gammorus and Medish and Kazal is so powerful and they realize that the the visual tool is something which is very very powerful in bringing across image where when we were learning we're learning with your father long time Kabusa and sometimes you need to visualize a concept and the imagery today of the far and of course art scroll uh those are the things that that really bring it to life when you when you see that the the visual image that brings to light the concept uh and then you write about it so and the people say sometimes uh a picture is worth a thousand words I say really sometimes it's 2,000 because 1,000 is the picture 1,000 is the commentary so you need both aspects to really bring it to life but you you bring up a good point Because anyone who's studied your art on even a cursory level sees that it's not just a nice picture. There's so much depth to it and how you incorporate the dri kazal into the dimensions of the of the artistry is really really amazing. It's an unbelievable talent. It's uh it's it's humbling. I think that that part of it is and I think that really for for people, you know, people say I see I saw the picture. I saw the art. It's beautiful. I said did you read the commentary? When they say yes, okay, now you got it. Then it's it's really it's the interplay of the two. Uh it's been called visual medish. And when you when you take the understanding of khazal and you you give it a face and with colors with meaning with uh and probably one of one of the pieces which is most poignant uh when I did a work on Perkyos uh it was a a three and a half year work. I did the original manuscript for the walls family and they commissioned the work for their sons baritzo basham. was around 4 years away and and some of the pieces there. It was it was one of the larger uh works that I had had done and in in the the family commissioned the work and uh they said okay we we we negotiated all the arrangements financial arrangements and uh a few months later he said uh okay can I see something that's been done I said I'm I'm working on it doing the research he said uh research and he was a little okay you know he he didn't understand if you're doing pictures and you're doing the the writing what where's the time factor there. So I said, "Okay, I'm working on it." Then finally, I I think it was nine months later, I gave birth to the first piece. Uh it was a piece which dealt with the timeline of Jewish history, 4,000 years of the Msora from Mosherenu down to the present day. He says, "Okay, now I understand." And because it's something that until you're involved with it, and again, the the research to to to go into the piece, uh people ask me the tools of the trade. And I think the first the first first thing that I work with before the parchment, before the ink um are the I go to the first, excuse me, because they the parts that are most important to bring out are really how did Kazal look at this? What was the the message that they wanted to convey with a specific idea or or mushall or concept or or the visual representation that I could bring to the four? Uh so that that's where I started and well let's turn back the clock for a second. We were talking about your passion in your youth and your formative years for art and then we jumped ahead to the Perky and to your major projects. But going back to your early marriage years when you decided to go into art, what what were you doing then? What were you creating? And were you working by yourself? Were you working for someone else? Talk about Yeah, I started uh I think one of the earliest uh commissions I received someone asked my sister if I do. that time there was a there was a um a rebirth of the field of illuminated manuscripts uh which which goes back hundreds of years. They found instances from um Italy and beyond and working with illuminations. So they said they said your your brothers are testing the tubas. I said um I guess I do. So that was the first suba I've had many people who said they had the first original yon suba but only one of them is the truth and and working with that um I started doing subas the lettering and the design around it of obviously was much more primitive than it was now um I don't have formal training and I think that that it's a it if anything it's a recognition of the fact that it's a gift it's any talent uh it's a matana from to me it's incredible I'm looking at the ka yams rendition behind you to think that this was created by someone without formal training in art is is almost mindblowing. Yeah, this is this is this I worked on with the team. So I I have to give credit to the team as well because it's something that this was just say for Schmos was four and a half years to create the one volume the the research the writing and again the artistic team that worked together with me to to help create it. Um it's something that we in the getting the full picture of the work was you know started really with the calligraphy um I guess the I have to really go back to my rebby in the in the field who I looked up to when I was in cole kle you understand doesn't pay a very great salary my wife was teaching uh at the time and so I had to supplement the the income so I did calligraphy and I did monograms and I did kububis and uh the the first direction that I had I believe was from arts scroll printing corporation I consider him my rebby uh in the field he he was a person with tremendous vision uh and he was artistic also some people don't know that he was an artist as well but it was something that he had this appreciation uh Rashia Brander who's the the the goone of graphics and in art scroll uh was working at the time as well uh with with art scroll but I I I was working as an invitation broker uh dealing with creating the the calligraphy for the Hebrew at that time. It wasn't something that the the fonts did not exist the way they do today. And we should clarify this was not Art Scroll Publications. Yes. It was Art Scroll Printing Corporation. Art Printing Corporation, which was the precursor, right, to Art Scroll and and a company that was creating wedding invitations. Wedding invitations, baritzvations, vitations, uh kubis, illuminated manuscripts. So a lot of the the the foundation of the work that I'm doing today was based on art scroll printing corporation. Roy Mayor Lawitz was the one who created that that foundation. Uh Elliot Schwarz was the person who took over afterwards and um I took a little taken a little detour when I uh was doing the the artwork. I did the the kubas and I did came the for the uh appribation of raisit is is the work up to par for our scroll standards and it uh it met the that met the standard that they were looking for in terms of being able to be used as an invitation broker but u could that be so I went to school um I got a degree and I I worked in the field I worked in the gutter for a number of years but I was always doing projects on the side and things freelance but how does that translate um at one point when And I realized that the the field that I was in in social work uh work I was working for the Agura which was a beautiful experience as well but that might not translate into a parnosa. So I spoke to the people at art school and I said I'm looking to move into the field of art uh on a more practical level on a as a as an employee and I I went to art school printing and I asked for a for a job there because they knew my work from before. Uh Rab Meers Lanowitz was at the transition point. This goes back to 76 just at the point of going to miso publications and creating migillas. I I recalled to Mayor that I remember coming into his home one time. He lived on East 14th not far from where I lived and I saw a table full of books on Miguel. This must have been I I I was touched that the fact he even allowed me to come in their schedule was incredible to create this uh this first of all of the major publication of March scroll. Uh and so you actually remember when Rayor was writing his commentary Leland Nishmas mayor Fogle the very first art scroll book right and it was almost thing the book was there was a a I'm not sure if it's a typewriter computer uh that was there but but the the books are there this is and the the rebby in all of this the person I think it's with the vision and the clarity and the artistic skills uh was mayor so when I when I looking for a job so I came back to our school I said I wanted to work there and uh I worked as a gentleman manager and designer for approximately four years. Um being in a company there was artistic creativity. There couldn't be better. They had the the business part of it also. We designed invitation cataloges and and wedding invitation cataloges uh barit's uh new year's cards and we created the helped create the line and they worked it. It was a very very fulfilling um responsibility to be there at art school and to to have the creation. But you know at one point the uh the artistic and creative urge has to work in conjunction with everything else in life. Um it was after our sixth child. So I spoke to my wife and I said I was it wasn't I wasn't feeling fulfilled coming to Manhattan. Manhattan was a challenge of its own as people know coming in every day and having to be there before the the other employees are there and and leaving afterwards and the and and I and there wasn't enough time for the learning that I wanted to do and the uh being active in their full full being fully immersed in the field of art the way I wanted to. I had a wonderful relationship with with art school and I uh I I said I I need to go on my own and it was uh and it was I think the one who I give the most credit to is my wife Al Shalom. It was something that probably she believed in me more than I did on myself and it was something that she said okay we'll do it and we'll make it work and uh it was a challenge okay the first day when you're on okay what happens today how how will we uh put the food on the table the family is growing and uh we said we still do different things we'll work with the monograms and invitations and kubis and the design and hashem will will will guide us and there's no question that that the sataya was was there from the beginning. Um I think that the one pivotal moment probably in the transition from working at Artsorld and working my own was really a referral that Arts had made. So that just that attests to the fact that we we left Burkham on very very good terms and I would worked together with them. There was a family that was working for their son's bar mitzvah. Their oldest son was being becoming aritzvah. They wanted an artistic uh representation for the for his bar mitzu which would be taking place in Shabasius and uh they were they got some different sketches from one of the other uh invitation brokers and arts girl and they didn't have the look that they were looking for. So they came back to Elliot Schwarz and said what do we do? said, "Speak to Yona. He's been here. Contact him. He can help you with a design and uh perhaps you can get something that's more uh in concert with what you're looking for an invitation." And I designed something and I was the the meeting was was was wonderful. It was Debbie and Ellie Gibber uh who were the ones who I designed the invitation for their sons bar mitzvah and they were thrilled. They were very excited uh with the outcome. And when we finished the invitation of Baram, they said, "Okay, what do you have for a venture?" So I sold him. I said, "I have a dream." And my my uh my vision of a venture was, you know, there were this was before a lot of the art school ventures came out and there were things on the market, but they weren't graphically attractive. There wasn't anything which which made it stand out. And certainly they were all black and white. And I said, "I have a vision of creating a venture with with some commentary. We we we uh and and again it was a question of finishing all of the 32 pages of the illuminations the original illuminations in less than four and a half months and it was uh and I worked very assiduously uh I worked together with Terra's binder they they took care of the publication aspect of it because it was impossible to deal with both the actual work and the writing and the and the creating uh together with the the publication and Basham at the uh this goes back to 1986 the first uh then it was called Judeaic Craft, Judeaic Illuminations Venture came out with the illumination and the artwork and there were little microraphic designs going around it which touched on the different measures and I explained them uh in in the in a brief synopsis at the end of the venture but really that was the first venue uh that I had to to reach the community at large. It's so interesting how that design kind of became your identity with the designs on the side and your little commentary and you know the small nuances. It's called the manuscript chiron manuscript right and and part of it is that that we were looking and I was looking again I wasn't into the branding. We didn't know what branding was all about at the point, but it was something that the style of the the antique flavor u and of course they were they were there uh in every step of the way and directed me uh with it to the giver family to create the first work and once it it reached the market that was a Hebrew only edition we did a Hebrew English edition for the next son and that helped tremendously. What was the feedback like because this was something original people had never seen before. It was it was very very exciting. It was humbling. It was something that people saw something uh to be able to publish a work uh was something which was was a novelty. You know, you you have that's why with with artists and I guess part of it is uh a lot of artists they're they're creating work in their studio and they're hoping that someone will will buy it. The I guess the advantage I had this was all commissioned work which mean I knew at the outset that before the uh the work could be done was something hopefully to cover uh the costs of the of the project and uh the the um there was another work that I that I did also which also the first large project besides the the the benture I did a Hagara memory of the Holocaust which is a for me was a very very uh personally satisfying piece. My my father and mother had gone through the Holocaust and they were survivors and it was commissioned by a survivor and I worked together another colleague David Wander and we worked on the the piece. He had seen my work at a an exhibition at Yeshiva University Museum Anubis and he was looking he didn't do calligraphy he did the artwork for the work and he was looking for a calligrapher to do the second part and to also deal with some of the commentary which was exciting for me also. It was the first real venture into tying together the themes of Avdos and Kus and Holocaust and and redemption and putting it together. And we published a a regular edition and limited edition uh at the time and bashm. We had an exhibition in Yadvashm in the museum. It was very bam, very wellreceived. But it it was it was something for me was another opportunity to create and uh it was it was exciting because projects I think have a beginning and an end which is some sometimes if you're just doing a work uh in the uh on on a specific on on open-ended artwork you don't get a chance really to see the the the the sense of closure and seeing a project being brought to completion. But basically, you were going at this point from project to project based on whether someone commissioned you to do it. Yeah, I wasn't I wasn't doing fundraising at that point to try to find sponsors. It was something that that was and again it was tremendously after the Shaya that I think it's it would sound like it would be risky also because between project and project you still have to put food on your table and and you know if there's a lull in the action and you don't have something coming up you know I'm sure that that was a challenge you grapple. was a it was a challenge for sure again the and the as the family starts growing you know that the needs uh keep growing together with it the tuitions and everything um it was really sata from from from day one it was something that the other projects and the each each one it's interesting the the history of how the perkyas started uh was was really an outgrowth of the venture it was the the wellness family was marrying off one of their children and uh they were in on the lower east side get waiting for the talis to be uh readied by uh by the manufacturer and while they're waiting so Mr. was perusing the bookshelf and he pulled out a volume and it was the manuscript your own and it said commissioned by Debella Gibber said oh this guy does commissions okay so let me talk to him about about the the work and uh that's how that project evolved and uh the the the another art scroll shak in terms of the uh the work was the the the work on the bar mitzvah was originally called the uh uh the work of the bar the bar mitzvah treasury dealt with the concept of bar mitzvah and the reener family um was be having their first their son being bar mitzvah and they came to art scroll and they said we want to do work on this project and we want I guess the commentary the the understanding the the messages together with artwork and they said you know they had one of their friends I believe it was u Mr. to Louisis Glick and I said who do you know who can who can do this and uh someone had known my work and I said speak to you on wine and I was in the middle of doing the work on the piras it was such an exciting project I didn't want to give it up so I worked together with with the salomon and we we created that as a book so it also helped um my introduction to the renard family uh they're they're phenomenal people and and philanthropists and people who understand the beauty of Jewish education and uh later when I wor when I worked on other projects besides their for each of their simas the bentures and the exubas and things that I did for their personal simka when it came to do the time the the work on the the illuminated Torah which is a huge project uh that became something which I was involved with them as well interesting two interesting questions that I I've wanted to ask you um I should mention you know we I grew up dvening in the same shul as rabbi wine ribb in sniff sitting with my father a row ahead of of you and getting to watch your family grow and and always admiring your work and you know when people would mention Rabbi Yona Win I was always able to say what do you mean I d in the same sh but um having this type of vocation which is not a nine-to-five job how do you decide when to do the work how to do the work I mean you could wake up in the morning come back from shakers and start writing art and write the whole day and write the whole night. How do you kind of dictate when to do it? And is there a schedule to it? Does an artist just draw and draw and draw? Is is there a mahal? Yeah, there is there is a mahalik. Um it's sometimes it's non-stop. Sometimes there seven days a week be working on a project mishabas of course uh on a project. the illuminated turtle which was commissioned by the Tesla family uh which was uh again it was a four and a half year work just on safer schmos and and we're working with a team uh it was it was a beloved project that the teslers uh went through the war also they went through the holocaust and this was a person Bam Mr. Nelli Tesler was on in his years and each of the families owned one of the Perkyos editions limited we did a limited collector's edition of the Perkyos and they said they want to do something for perpetuity. It wasn't something that they wanted for their some people like to have things for their personal collection but Mr. Tesla said we have to teach it to generations and the Bashm uh he understood that it was there was a it was an investment of time and self uh and the resources to make it happen and we met and uh Bsham we started the project. It came at a very uh challenging time in my life personally. There was my wasn't well and uh but hashem said no this is something which has to go on has to be done. We have to perpetuate the concepts. Uh and it was a lot of work and it was tremendous uh involvement of of self. Uh the research was exciting. The sketching the designing the working with the with the artists was was very exciting. And as things started to come together um I said this is so much bigger than me. It's some it's had it's it's taken on a life of its own and uh yeah they're they're long hours. There's no question sometimes at 1 in the morning I would find myself you know continually uh keeping up with the with the process because I had to I wanted to see this come to fruition and uh it was an amazing uh thing with the different parts came together as soon as I finished seishmos I said I have to I started with sishmos uh bracious was almost daunting it was something that uh I was concerned about bracious and the bria uh so I started with schmos the foundations of ammuna and it's interesting that in this particular project. Um, I did something which I had never done before. I went to Gdole both in American art to get their huskama written and verbal husk on the on the project. I was going to ask you about it because some people will say that you know you're doing something creative and revolutionary when you have detractors and I always wondered were there any people who ever said Rabbi Wan great work but taking taking and taking Dazal and and and making pictures and you ever have anyone who who questioned whether this was the right way to go in terms of Jewish education? Yeah, there were there were there were people who sometimes would look at I I'm very careful and I've spoken to Robu before I started the work. Uh there's no picture of of Ramino. Everything is from behind. You won't find pictures of the of the of the OOS and the Moshabenu. They're too great. We can't we we minimize their stature if we try to create this is what Mosha Rabbena looked like and this is what the OS and it's it's hard because educationally you'll find all of the the workbooks and the and the uh books that the children have very often there will be pictures of the of the need that so there's a balance I felt in my work um in some ways we couldn't do it so that's really why I went to the gdoleum and I one there's one one ru particularly when I when I was doing braces he said bracious ious with pictures. I said, "I don't know. Maybe just do the text." I said, "No, I won't sell bracious asked you the vibrancy of the Bria." And uh it was something that he said, "I don't know. Go ask what they say init." And this is I I already had some hoskamas. I had finished Sephishmos uh beforehand. And I went to Raquitz who was one of the golim in education. Uh and I and I sat down with him a number of times to show him the different pages that I was doing, pages on bracious and schmos. And he gave me a beautiful warm husk and on the and de brah on the project I went to vak of h who by the way is himself was an artist. Oh really? Yeah. And he's a again bahash the world has him in a different capacity today as one of the gdole in the spartic community. uh and I spoke to him who also gave me the braha and seel also didn't give me a written husk but he gave me a verbal uh appreciation of the work and again shapiro za bernbomb gave me the last huskama bahay uh and rebellski also the last written huskama I believe bahay was from revelski about the project and really people said like you need gdole attesting to your ability art I said that's not what it's about it's using art as a tool to teach Torah and it was something that that uh and the we have a collection of different um letters from from Mail Cutler and Kameki Shaw uh and and they they understand that we live in a very visual world and the problem is the the world that the world is seeing today is not very not what we want them to see and uh and they understood the gdole and with their appribations understood that when you're taking something like Torah and packaging it in a that there can be appreciation of not just the artwork but the content comes to life. Uh it's very enriching and very rewarding for me. Now before we get to your music and other creativity, I wonder in the world of writing there's a concept of writer's block. A writer just it's not going in in the world of art is there such a concept of as artist block where you sit down and then it's just not going. And what what's your what's your solution? What do what do you do? You go back to the books. I think sometimes it's it's kazal really I was it's interesting when I was working um with David Wander we were working on the haga and later we were discussing different things and he saw some of the different publications that we had and he said like where do you get your ideas from I said it's all there it's in the books let's learn and we started learning together he was doing the work on on sephona which we sub subsequently published as well uh and he we started learning together he was living on the on the in Manhattan we were learning MTJ J say for Yona uh to get some different concepts of kazal that ultimately he used in his work and I worked used in mine as well. So, it's something that there there is there can be a block and uh sometimes you have to get the uh I guess the the the visual Drano to get the get get past it and going back into Kazal sometimes you'll you'll go go into the the concepts and you'll see it comes together and when when it's a it's something it's it's a phenomenal fusion of the the visual and the intellectual and the spiritual because there's a very very uh important spiritual component in the art and I I think that's something that people say I was inspired by the art. They said, you know, you think what does it mean inspired by art? How do you how are you inspired by art? I think it's really it's not the art. It's it's really it's the vision that we're giving them hopefully the the glasses to be able to see what did kazal mean. How do you understand? There's a concept in in the pyavas for example proer this world is like an interchamber before the world to come. So how do you depict you know this world and the world to come? It's it's a it's a it's a phenomenal concept. But this world I depicted as a suka. It's a temporary dwelling. And I use the the vision of kazal to say that's what this world is all about where you we're we're here for the period of our existence. But there was a suka in the world to come as well. The way you're building your suka down here that's really will be your eternal reward in the world to come as well. And I and I worked with the different images and it came together u I think in the in the in the synthesis of the artwork together with the writing and the uh and the messages of Kazal to really make it happen. Now many people may know that your art is not limited to the creativity of your hands but that uh you were involved in music uh early on. Talk about your creativity, your compositions, your singing. Uh some people may not know it's a different generation, different time you know and and music changes. So talk about that. When did you first get involved in music? It's uh my my father used to sing. We used to again growing up in the uh in the aura of Rome Shapiro. So Li Bisari which is one of the classics from Rome Shapiro that was sung at our Shabba's table almost every Shabba. There weren't a lot of zamiros but I remember that was one of the classics from uh my childhood that I remembered and it was it was important to him to make that connection to bridge the the generations uh through music. Uh that was one part but again it wasn't something which was uh formal. I I uh picked up guitar uh in my high school years and I started composing when once you you know you play a little bit Hashem Israel is one of the earliest compositions and it uh found the favor you know Bam and the in the uh the world that's it later uh Dove dove used it also for the song about it was on the Suki and Kumzit album later on if you remember I guess you know that you've uh you've made a mark sometimes when it's something which is which comes comes out later years later people say I never heard this before but it's something which really comes comes back uh and camp and camp really uh we had the opportunity to to share some of the the musical messages I I came to camp um I had never gone to camp as a camper which is which is uh again growing up out of town and it was expensive you know being able to go from there to there so we did whatever we had to uh in in Connecticut But when the opportunity presented itself in camp TV uh and someone asked me to be to become a counselor, I said okay. I didn't know it didn't involve but uh I came to camp the the first day not knowing almost anyone. I knew maybe one or two other people in the camp and I heard the strumming of guitar. My friend Yakos Salam was involved in music and they were working on a night activity for the first night trying to come up with some things and I said guitar I can play a little guitar and I came along and we sang and I was night activity for the first night uh and then we developed a relationship uh from there. Simone was one of the earlier albums we had done. This goes back in the 70s. So Simone was a group right started in Camp Turvance. and came to her dance you myself uh Jak Salman Beny Shear that was the vocals Hiy Hassenfeld did the was involved in the musical Shalom was involved in drumming scholar both in terms of playing and compositions so it was a a camp production it was nothing uh it doesn't come up to the the uh compositions that are uh done today and some of the productions with with full full-fledged orchestras but it was our our musical statement for the time it was something which was uh it was fun. We we enjoyed uh working together with something and some of your compositions appeared on there as well. Yeah, some of the compositions were were were mine. Uh and again sometimes if it stands the test of time that's a that's a very favorable uh appribation you get from the world at large because how many how many albums did you produce? We did two two albums. two albums uh simple tone on Varenu which was a song by that Jakovi uh used and freed used uh that was something which also found its time and there's another element and I guess this is where the writing uh worked together with that as well that um Jeep was coming out with a number of records at the time and Golding and Golding were working on on albums and again it was at the time it was something which they said album was to raise money for for Stucka for Kira. They said it's not going to happen. They made it happen. And it was something that they uh they asked me, they were working on the song one peaceful Friday night which is one of the the um main songs of the the album and I did part of the lyrics uh for that and I did some number of other songs for my children. uh the master artist as a song which is composed later and uh it was it was again the the creativity it it's if it's it's not me it's a bor who is given a gift of whether it's the art the music or the writing and he says okay this is this is your your pallet it's a different pallet for everyone use it and and this is the hash is from the possessions that we have the talents whatever we have uh if we can craft it that we can fine-tune it we can make it something which can be used for a hashm and in at a level I think that's something which is a very very powerful you're talking about older songs coming back our good friend Donnie Gross right who appreciates the older music put out a beautiful album last year with Bar Lavine off the record I think one peaceful Friday night is on there and and the dove do song is there and the dove do song is there also it's it's it's refreshing it must be for someone like you where music from decades ago is is getting a rebirth And uh you know that beautifully a song a song like that which you know like you mentioned was on a freed year and then on Byus for that to get a new life is must be such a satisfactory feeling for a comp for a composer it's it stands the test of time and I think that today the you know sometimes you go to Kas and say what are they playing it's it's We we had recently we had a kumitz some of the oldies uh got back together we called only oldies we'll invite you to the next one shabas shabasaka myself Milstein bar liner ramy flam these are names that the later generations probably never heard of but uh and of course Ellie Conn on the music doing uh doing the music and uh my son-in-law Ellie Malik Adler who's also a phenomenal musician got together and they were again it was wasn't for any publication was mostly the families and people who heard about it. you got together only old songs only oldies and it was something that it was refreshing because it was something it goes back to an era and I think that very often that the music is a reflection of the times like one of the songs one song which you had the title song on the second album keeping watch was a reflection of what was happening in Soviet jewelry at the time and uh very often when when the the the I did the music I did the the music and the lyrics uh for keeping watch and it reflected about a child growing up in Russia And that was the the uh the statement of the day, the struggle for Soviet jewelry. And the music in some case reflected that. After the six- day war, the rabbi sons, of course, there are icons. Uh they they they developed music and very often some of it was was a reflection of Kalamulo Gasharm to some of the wars, the Yam Kipper war. Uh and the the the freshness of the music, uh the their harmony, which is again something which we were very taken by. uh is something which is so so important because it just gives it another dimension. So the the music, the art, the writing uh when you confuse them together and it's really each one of them is a challenge and responsibility to take them and and to use them properly and to recreate something which is for Kochamay. Well, you you've used both of those talents remarkably. I should just to go back to Vajareno for a moment. We had an interesting thing happen over here at Arts School when Yakov Schweki visited and we were walking through the binder and the warehouse and he told me this interesting tidbit which ended up going viral. I'm sure you had a uh you chuckled when you heard it, but for those who who didn't hear it, basically he recounted how when he was recording his his Cyrus Kumzit album. Uh they chose songs that he appreciated and his producer Yakub Briskman, they chose really beautiful songs and one song was Varenu. They recorded it in the studio. They didn't know who the composer was and they were coming to the end of production and Hashkah had at that punk that night. uh Yakov's aunt had called him to go sing for a family happened to be your wife to go sing for her and your mishbah and there he is in your home singing this beautiful song and then he says by the way you know this is going to be on my upcoming album and I don't know who the composer is and there you are sitting there the composer so you know the reunion song brings things together in an amazing fashion that uh just an interesting tidbit about that So each step of the way it's it's it's you know part of the the journey uh in art and and in music and the writing it's something that that I you know I found that when I started publishing uh and working with with art scroll again we we we have our own company JK Illuminations but that's that's the the art component but again you want to bring it to the world and art scroll has been look what they've done it's it's amazing lanit now of kadalia has has taken the reigns of of uh of the Torah majesty and being able to bring it to the next generation and for people uh we were growing up you know when the first art scroll publications came out with with Miguel Esther and the other migillas in in succession and the amount of work that I know he did the writing together with also another rebi of mine in terms of the the literary artistry which he which he's created um it's something which is it was so refreshing to the generation that nothing like this has been done before and They talked to the people who who could appreciate the fact that we need somebody that talks to us. people the Bali Chuvo who didn't have access and I think part of it is they were mining treasures and they they understood that the taking the works of Kazal the the things that we had access to from from our years in yeshiva and making accessible to them uh it was such a gift to the you know the arts school revolution has been something which is and you know we were there at the beginning we saw the initial stages u I I I'm I'm humbled to counter mayor as a as a mentor and friend listen you you and Mayor's lads were clearly kindred spirits because both of you recognize that if you're putting out works related to Tyra and Yiddish, they have to be works of perfection, of beauty, representing Yiddishesk and Tyra in the in the most exalted and and sterling light. Yeah. I think that I think that the the the vision that he had for what Arts Girl was is something that that there's no question that it's it's affected my work again in terms of the and even though a lot of the works uh the initial arts school works only had perhaps a a fullcolor cover but the text itself was was a text I hope to give it the dimension when I started working in full color. Um my first address in terms of distribution was arts school and I came back to mayor and when I had done the perky I was in a larger edition but I said but it's something which is a collected edition of 613 copies but we have to bring it to to the hamonam and we published uh one of the first publications I did besides the bar mitzvah book was on was on the perky office in a smaller edition to make it accessible for the community at large and each of the publications that I've done bakshan we 18 close to 20 publications that I've done and art scroll is the address for distribution because it's something that they they understand the appreciation of the uh the art and the writing uh the marketing is something which is there and there's a mission and and Rivala has has taken the the reigns of art scroll and continued it and it's something that being able to reach the the community at large is something that uh that that's it's it's so important and they one thing which I think also which they've uh harnessed is the ability of people to partner together with them in their works and the shot and scene edition is something which is uh the Gomorra is such an incredible project that they've taken on but people have worked together with them and it's the families that are they're creating a legacy and again my my mental growing board of different projects that I have um hopefully that'll be coming out there are other things and and again it's the the vision of people that understand that the creative work, the the research, the writing, the artwork, the production, the the the culmination of all the different aspects coming together uh need the support of people with vision without and and Romeo understood that bringing them together on on board and really he created the model of our scroll of having families uh join them in the work because it's it's a legacy for Kai Israel. Now you speak of your mission. What what's your mission today? Can I like you mentioned 18 to 20 works impacting Jews all around the globe in in in such a creative way. What's next for Rabbi Yona Winer? There there are other parts. We'd like to finish the series both on the migillas. So far we're we're republishing that McGillisester. The Gindi family in California commissioned all five original manuscripts of the McGill which means that I work together with a sofur. uh I'm a calligrapher not a sofa. There's no artistic license in in the in the in in Saffras but uh working together with all the illuminations around that. So we've published so far Migillus Esser Shir Sherman Russ and we'd like to be able to finish the the collection of that working with the Kish as well for bracious and safe come out. We came out with smaller editions as well. Um I've heard from Rabayam they will use sometimes the images uh from that. We like to use it educationally to Vasaura is is a is a phenomenal resource in terms of reaching people and we're hoping to do some of the work together with them to create the different v venues and avenues so that you can take the the work in artistic form together with the messages so that you can really bring this to the community at large and there are other projects that hopefully will will see the light of day that uh they have you know have envisioned and put together sketches and I'm interest the shik will work out to create it and hopefully make it Now you said beforehara over the past four and a half decades you've utilized these god-given gifts whether in terms of art, writing, music, whatever hashem has allowed you to these mediums to reach people. You've done a a remarkable job and uh I offer my you should continue to utilize your your many talents to touch people to inspire people to uplift them and you should be able to continue to create such creative projects for many years to come. Oh man each time I'm able to finish a project. It's a really is it's a tremendous uh my mother Allah wanted to be an accountant. being an accountant again it's I said mom it's not going to work it it's I have a creative uh spark and the soul that hopefully will go together with it but accounting was not going to be the the way I was going to be uh taking it and I think that part of it is that when a kesh allows you uh to take your your inborn traits and the and the gifts that he's given you and to challenge something that I love what I'm doing something it it can't be more rewarding um when I my my children of course they're my originals uh but the the publications that we're doing that allow people to see not not the artwork of Yonu but the artwork the artwork of Kazal the art the beauty of Torah when they're seeing it coming across hopefully in a way together with the writing and I I sure hope that they will read the the commentary as well u hopefully it'll be uplifting and they'll have an opportunity to see that and use that and we're all working together as with art school amen thank you again for coming my pleasure [Music]