Inside ArtScroll Season 2 Episode 15: Interview with Rabbi Moshe Don Kestenbaum

[Music] Hello everyone and welcome back to Inside Art Scroll where the books you read and the people who write them come to life. Today we are joined by Rabbi Mosha Don Castbam, author of the newly released Hava. Thank you Rabbi Castbam for being here. Thank you for having me. It's an honor to have you here. It's an honor to have read your both in Hebrew and in English and now the newly released which has been translated into English. Let's start there. How did you get into the field of writing sarim and then we'll hear about some of your history and also your foray into the world of so my first safer which is the most popular of my swarm is amidos and what I think is nice about amidos is when I started writing it I did not intend to write it. Um for many years I was in waterberry and I was teaching in the bdesish muser. Then I eventually went to the high school and I gave vadim in or sadikim and one of the younite Sheila Lzena who's now a r in Texas I believe Houston. He asked me if I would give a weekly vad to the married to the ko. So this was unique because usually I was just learning or sadikim and then kind of going off on a tangent. But here I had to prepare a weekly schmoo which I had never done before. So I started preparing and I started writing to prepare and all of a sudden I realized that I had a lot to write a lot of material and I wrote well past I ever gave to those in those vaim and it turned out to be a safer which is to me obviously special because it wasn't like I want to write a safer I need a fill of pages I want to write about jealousy let me just see what I can come up with I was writing khazal and ideas that I myself had used in my own hashem. And that was published initially in lash kadesh. Published in lash kesh about almost 15 years ago. Wow. And later released in art school by art school in English about two years ago. Very wellreceived. And what was your next safer after that? Next safer. Next safer was in English. I think I switched off. I wrote an English safer called run after the right coat. Mhm. Um, so um, CO is my favorite topic. I think that's what people need and that's what young people need. That's what old people need. They need to feel good, feel respected. So I took a certain amount of that I think from articles that are in that you may have helped edit. And um, so that was the next safer. I didn't get art school on that one. Maybe one day they'll reho it. But um and then I wrote Oloda you know olod is about five years after oligos five six years so in between I wrote safer run after right cavode wellreceived not as well known but those that have learned item get a lot of good feedback and now the the new volume of a in English is divided into 40 different sections right yes we giving the option of of divide of reading it in 40 days and what was the thought process process with that wasn't my idea. It was it was Mrs. Heimwitz, my editor's idea. Okay. But she thought I think it was her idea or one of someone in art school thought it would be good for people to have a way to to learn it by the day, but it doesn't have to be learned that way. So this way, you know, happens to be wasn't originally even going to come out for L because these are topics that we need to work on all year. Torah, tila, midos, everything. But happens to be Ashka has it that we got delayed and coming out L. So it works out well. 40 days you know to Kipper from Now I was fascinated to learn that you actually grew up or was you were born and raised in Wilsbury, Pennsylvania. I was born in Canada. I moved to Wilsbury when I was about five. The only thing I know about Wilsberry are the Wilsberry barons. They weren't there when I was there. Okay. So I didn't get to uh have that. and I moved to Farakwe when I was right before my bar mitzvah. Okay. So you grew up a lot of many of your formative years were spent in farway. Who where did you attend yeshiva and who were your who were the influential figures in your life at that time? My my primary rebi certainly when we talk about mus is he really got me into muser which we'll explain a little bit what muser means. People have a misunderstanding of muser. People think muser is you're going to go to ganim if you don't do this. People think of muser of as very intense and very maybe even discouraging for some people and hopefully we're trying to change that attitude. My rebi when he taught muser we loved we loved it. It was fun. You would make jokes and to me muser is certainly when you talk about midos it's about understanding yourself. You could even laugh at yourself. You're taking yourself so seriously. You know, the other day I got a phone call from somebody and he's like, "Hi." You know, I didn't know the person and and he's like, "Hi, Mosha. How you doing?" And I'm like, I was like a little bit like, "Oh, Mosha." Like, people don't call me that anymore. Usually people call me with a title. Then then I laugh at myself. Like, what are you taking yourself so seriously? You're you're Moshe. That's how you grew up. I got the done added on in high school. Man, Kaishua Kish made that popular. But don't take yourself so seriously. So, it's it's amazing. It's amazing to learn about yourself. And now when Rabbi Pere was teaching you and your fellow Muser in Yeshiva Farakway, what what text was he using as a basis? Mainly he was using Madreas Adam and those were my favorite some some of the you know pieces in Majus Adam. But to be honest, I didn't pay so much attention when he was reading the Madreas Adam. I paid much more attention when he stopped reading and started talking. and he has a lot a lot to share. And what was the primary message at the time that resonated with you? I don't I don't know if I thought of it so so much about a primary message, but I think the lesson that I learned and what you know brought me to where I could write Olamidos is he taught me to be taught us to really be aware of our thoughts and what we're thinking and what we're feeling and how often we're there's jealousy, there's anger, but so many people unfortunately are unaware of their own feelings, their own thoughts. And that's dangerous. people, you know, people are upset at somebody else and they think, "Oh, that person did this to me and they're not seeing their own shortcomings that are involved, their anger, the bad meidos." If people would just see with clarity what's going on, everything would change and their lives would be a lot better. You have better marriage, you're better with your kids. It's So, is it just about seeing with clarity? Is that kind of a a summary of the way you're viewing your muser that you're imparting? I think with omidos, not with omoda, oligos is to me in the shortest terms selfawareness and then being ready to to tackle it. But if you're not aware, there's nothing to tackle. There people that are always right. There people that are perfect. You're aware of your shortcomings and it's okay. It's okay to have shortcomings and then you're prepared to to work on it. And what happened with me, you know, bar hashem is now when I got jealous, I actually thought about it and I tried to work with it. I'll give you a story that changed my life that I told Baham recently that I had a friend of mine that was very intense and he would dive in longws and it was hard for me because I felt like of two cents because he's a big sadic and ding is crazy and I just ded you know long not too sure you always make sure that after the starts you know before kadusha you never never start before the show but he would dive in these intention and one time I finished one and I used to not be able to look at him because it was so hard to just see him. Mhm. And I put somehow I got inspiration in my head that I turned to him. He was to my right and I turned to him and I said, "It's beautiful the way he doins. I could be inspired from that. I can learn from that." And that changed my life because now when I see people that are doing things that maybe make me feel a little bit less, I change it and say instead of making a competition, just accept appreciate having an eye in I had the good eye before. I saw the good but not I'm bad because of it. It's beautiful what he's doing as a bystander. Let me be a bystander forget about myan forget about my own pro my shortcomings in my d look at the way he dos step out look at the way he learns you know so much so much of people's you know are hurt by jealousy and and then sometimes you put would you say that a lot of people nowadays can't fog in someone else's success both spiritually and materially. Yeah, because of because of jealousy. But if I stepped out for one minute changed my life. Now you mentioned before that your favorite topic is covered. Yes. Even though Kazal say that Yes. is is not painted positively. Yes. So explain what you mean when you say that running after the right covet and why covet is perhaps the most important thing to give to a person to a person. So you just have to understand what what covet is. You can't chase real kavod. So let me explain. I can go on for a long time on this topic. But cavode means to what cover that I'm talking about means to feel good about yourself. If somebody if I catch somebody in a random yeshiva learning oligos there's no greater cover than that. I don't have to go to him and say you know you know who wrote that safer that's covered. But if someone gives you a brah under the what and and everyone stands up for you and there happens to be a thousand people at the wedding. This is something that my rebi taught taught us this idea. He said they're not giving you cover because you're so important. They're not giving me covered because of anything I've done. They're giving me cover because they called up. They called me up as rabbi. If it hap if I was a conservative rabbi and nobody knew about it, they would also stand up. If I was a Russia, hopefully I'm not, they'd also stand up. So that while I feel good, but I don't think about it the next minute after the wedding or even after the oh I'm so I got a bra. I got a he's my I got a kibba. I don't I don't get him so much but I got a kibbut. So when you understand what real about you can't buy you can't chase real has to be given to you says the is inherited you can't buy it. M so when people are chasing covet they just don't understand what kvot is why you chasing that it's shallow if you chase it if I sit up I'm not coming to a wedding unless I get a bra I'm not doing this unless so don't you feel cheap that you're doing that so I can't I can't chase real covet so run after right covet that title basically means chase right covet what is right covet right covet is feeling good about yourself for yourself real covet is understanding your value as a person your kashivas real covet don't giving covet to other people. So that's that's the right cover and that's the only cover and then it helps me out of my own life. I like I like when people this is a big being here for this interview but I know I can't chase it. So sometimes I have if let's say I have an opportunity to get co someone asked me to to get a bra on by and I'll tell him not always but I've sometimes I'll tell the person look if you have other people don't worry about me but I know that this is great because if he doesn't give me the Hashem's going to give me something better lateral say anyone who runs away from chases after him it's not exactly uses the language of kav chases after you so my when I was a young I feel I was so proud of myself I had the following question. If Kav's bad, so why are you being told that KV is going to go after you be punished for for for doing it? I thought Kasha when I was maybe, you know, 19, 20 years old, I was so excited and I thought and I realized, no, we need it gives a person life. It gives a person keep going. If people don't get covered, they they fall apart. But Kazal are telling us you your job is not to chase it. Hashem says, you do your best to stay away. I'll give you the coven you need. I'll give you real cover. There's real cover. There's real kava like putting on a safer is I'm very blessed. You can have cover from your from your children. You can't buy this cover. This is cover will give you. So how do you apply that in dealing with your we should mention and yeshiva yes of we actually joined a few of your nice enough to join us here in the bleachers watching the interview. So thank you for coming out here. It's not every day that we have fans in the seats. Hershey and Josh Packer. We'll give them. So, thank you for joining us. Um, but you you have a colossal impact on the lives of these boys. Um, we've heard from Talidum of yours that you have a kayak to connect to them in a very very unique way that maybe other influences, other over the years haven't had. What role does teaching kav to them play in that connection? Yeah. before you talk about teaching kavod which what you're asking is is I hold I respect the bakum I don't know if I'm the best connector I have to work on that but I value each each bakar I value each student and if you value them they feel that you respect them and then they believe in themsel the same way they see you believe in them they believe in themselves and just you know to speak a little bit about it where where do what gets in the way of of mim or parents you I hate I hate to uh hate to show off but I also wrote a parenting book which I have to recommend the heart the heart of parenting. Okay. Um the the the cover when what gets in the way is when you see a child is struggling. So a kid is not learning a kid's making trouble in class and then you lose cover for him and the kids sense. I always tell parents all the time it's not what you tell your child it's what you're feeling. They could sense if you're looking down at them. Parents tell me, I work with parents on the side and parents tell me, but I I never say anything bad. I don't I never insult. I never criticize him. I always tell them I love him. But what are you thinking? What are you feeling? If it's okay, there's only one. I want to share you with you one verb that just came to me last week, which I enjoy. By the paradum, we know it's a paras. But uh paradum is a because the water that makes the person t the mixture of the ashes of water that makes a person to also makes the people carrying it involved in it tummy. The question is how could it be the that makes a person to could also make the person tell me it's not fair but maybe we should rephrase the question how could it be theas that can make the person carrying bringing there first tummy that that meatas can make the person t wow you could apply this in many different ways but I apply it with the way we look at other people person struggling during seder to learn you're looking at him how could it be that he wastes so much time Maybe you should think the other way. It's hard for them to come to yeshiva. It's hard for him to sit and he still comes every day. When you look at the kid and especially when you're dealing with younger children, teenagers, they're young. What do you blaming them? It's like their fault. They're lazy. Come on. That's their set. That's what they're handed. There's so much good there. If you see the good, then they'll feel it and then good things happen. You have to learn to develop an ayen toe. Any just means there's something says over beautiful verento just means a good eye means a good eye you see you see the truth you're not fooling yourself you see the truth the truth is there's a good boy there's so much goodness there wouldn't you say that most disappointment comes from expectations so we expect something and because whatever it is doesn't materialize that's what gets us down so in as well and dealing with and children when we expect a certain result and we don't see that result that we kind of painted a picture of what we want to see, then that automatically will lead to disappointment. Whereas, like you're saying, if you spin it around and you look at it positively at what the child is contributing or what they're doing despite whatever challenges they might have. So then that automatically will help us view their accomplishments in a whole different way. You touched a raw nerve, the word expectations. Expectations is a very bad word, especially on other people. I expect you to be getting up for Davin. I expect you to be learning. I expect you, you know, I don't know if everyone's going to understand what I'm saying here. I don't have enough time to explain, but who are you? Yes, you're the parent. You brought them into the world. What does it mean you expect on somebody else? You're they don't owe it. Even parents, even my own children, I don't want them diving or learning because it's my expectations. They're here for Hashem. You're touching on a very interesting point because I think most parents and even educators view it as a quit proquo. We're providing X, Y, and Z to you. We're giving you house a house, shelter, food, and we're expecting a certain level of performance. And in a school also, we're providing an environment of education for you. We expect you to tow the line in a quit proquo type of arrangement. And you're saying, well, let me say it like this. They didn't sign up for this. But they didn't sign up to be born to you. They didn't sign up to your house. They didn't even sign up for Torah Z to be a Yid and learn Torah. They didn't sign up for it. We have to understand that sometimes a parent that works so hard to get to where they got to the Rebi works so hard to prepare this year. At least you should listen. That was your decision. I just want to say the main idea of parenting is I don't measure my parenting success personally for my own children. I'm very proud of them. I don't measure success by how good your kids are. There's some people that are terrible parents in terms of their skills and they have wonderful children. Don't measure your parenting skills by what type of child you have. Hashem gives everyone has and many children that today are struggling one day become I just got an email from a father a beautiful email. He's amazing person. He because from years ago he remembers that when his son was in waterberry I would give him he's a wonderful I would give him. He struggled with his own kid and I said one day who knows this your ch this child that's struggling was really struggling he may give you more nakas than all your other children and he has wonderful children he just sent me an email mish this morning he's like he actually tried calling me he's like thank you so much you don't have you gave me during that process and now it's true my son is going to the mir he's such a bentora you know so you know just you have to believe in them but also don't expect you know you have to just put in your job is to give them the love. Your job is to give them the respect. That's your job. You have to answer the question after 120. Did I give my child everything I could have? And then the rest is up to them. I will tell you 99.9. There are exceptions. They're outside things etc. Plenty of stories like that. I don't blame parents. You know, that's why I don't assume because a kid's struggling. It's a parent's fault. But you have to ask yourself as a parent, am I giving my child everything I can? The rest is up to them. And a lot of parents don't realize that point I'm giving. The rest is up to them. not forcing, not his success is my success. You know, I don't take success. I don't take credit by the ch I tell me them. I think the world views it that way. Something you just said, his success is my success. The world very much views people as either successful or not by how their children are performing. And I think by default that's why people view themselves that way kind of reflects on themselves if their children are not doing well. And the same asim someh want to teach elite students because if their students are doing well then that reflects positively on them. Whereas if you're working with those who struggle then some people mistakenly believe that that somehow reflects on their level of success. What do you say about that? Doesn't doesn't reflect you know I never understood the yeshiva would say we're the best yeshiva. You're the best yeshiva because you take in the best eighth graders going into nth grade who already learning. You're gonna have to answer after 120. And I'm not saying anyone's not doing a good job, but the point is they're gonna have to answer after 120. Did you take these ninth graders who are excited to learn and did you make them the gdole, the people they could have became? Hashem is going to measure us by what we did, the effort that we put in, and what we gave them. Anyone could take in the goody goodies. I happen to have been one of them, by the way. But you, anyone can take in the goody goodies and and be successful them if su and they're not really successful because they could be doing much much more. So you have to you know also just add one more point I'm sorry is al also don't measure success by a very narrow window not every kid can sit and learn especially when they're you know 10 13 15 16 people have ADHD people have a hard time sitting people have challenges you know but not everyone's success is measured by learning first of a certain age and also some people's success can be measured by other other things and how many people who weren't successful in yeshiva today are supporting supporting yeshiva is and I always laugh like this bakar that you're being tough on and you're criticizing him one day you're going to come to him and ask him for money I don't know if he should give you but you know like you have to be a little open-minded as to what success means you also have to be open-minded that that bakar is different than you and you know a lot of I see they just don't understand that that bakar is not like not you now you're talking about showering them with love and really giving them their space we'll call it but how does a parent or a rebi or know when to draw the line? How do you know when to crack down or or or it's it's kind of a hard balance. It's a great it's a great question. It's a great question. By nature or by nature, nurture, I'm more of a softer parent, a softer personality, but so I don't I'm not going to tell parents. I wrote the my parenting book um actually funny story. I sent it to art school, the parenting book, and they said, "It's amazing. Where's the rest?" because it's a short book, but there's a lot in there. But the the main thing to me about parenting is is developing the relationship. And I think different parents can go with different ways. You could be a little bit tougher, a little bit softer. The main thing is you're close with your child. And the second thing I want to point out, which is in the schools as well, how you're going to deliver the message. So I'll just give you an example. I like to give a kid comes into Shiva with his needs a haircut. So you could tell the kid you need a haircut. You can do it in front of other kids which is unforgivable really. It's it's to embarrass somebody in public. You can call the kid to office. You're at a higher level and you could say you need to get a haircut. A kid told me in my strike kid told me that his manal again this is exception but man called him to office and he said he's he said if you don't come back with a haircut by Monday don't come back. And the kid told me he told me he said I decided not to go back to yeshiva. He was doing okay because I didn't go back to Shiva because I wasn't taking that. If the manal in general, this is a very important rule for parents. You can discipline, but there's never an excuse to do it without respect. You can call the kid into office and say, I mean, if you were me, you'd probably say, you know, I love you here. It's cool, but it's yeshiva. People judge us. Other kids are going to learn. Be honest. That's another message for don't tell them fake reasons because because it won't you don't think it's strong enough. Kids like the truth. This is the truth. It doesn't look good. People will judge us. I'm sorry. Otherwise, if you were the only guy in the Shiva, you keep your hair. We need I need a favor. Do me a favor. I don't want to fight with you. Please get a haircut. Most kids are going to listen to you. And even our own children. Discipline with respect. I don't see ever an excuse not to treat a kid with respect. You could be tough with respect. How tough you should be. I think every situation's different. Every parent's different. I don't have a rule on it, but I have a rule. Love your kid. Get to know them, get to be close with them, have a good relationship with your kid, and really try hard with respect. Of course, you have to work on your midos. If you're an angry person, and you talk to your kids when you're angry, and you talk to your midum when you're angry, it's not going to work because you're not going to talk with respect. Just the fact you're angry already, you try talking to your wife, you know, spouse when you're angry, even if you say it nicely, it doesn't go well. Now, this method of that you espouse, who would you say you see out there is applying it? Who's your hero or role model in doing this exact thing? I would say it's what I learned in Waterberry under Ray Calfman and Rebeccaish what they're doing in Waterberry. I was a rabbi in Waterberry for in the high school for 10 years. I was in the base medish 10 for 10 years before that. Um but I learned I think by nature I was always had a somewhat of an eye in tove I would say and seeing the good and I I just see I just saw what happens. I see how kids who are hurt in other places. is I see how kids are hurt in their homes. I see it and I worked I've worked with a lot of parents and I see the results of good parenting and neb bad parenting. And I want to say that even if your kid is doing great if you're not following these lines of having a relationship and treating with love and treating with respect, there's probably a lot of pain in that child whether we'll ever see it or will not ever see it. What's the difference? It's certainly affecting him today. To be a good father, to be a good husband, we have to raise healthy children. So don't just be satisfied. Well, my kid's behaving. Yeshiva, he's scared of me and that's why he's behaving. It's working well. You know what? Life is not zero to to 18, 0 to 21, or 0 to 30 because unfortunately, we've seen stories of people falling apart in their 30s. It's a long life, and we should never get caught up in today and now. There's so much so much involved here. Now there are youngsters who struggle for the reasons you mentioned where maybe they were they weren't receptive to the tough love but then you have others and I know you've encountered them youngsters teenagers who just don't have an interest and you can't really pinpoint a reason but they're just not connecting to Yiddish guy they don't have an appreciation they might have very wonderful parents fabulous raim and just they're not connecting what message do you give to those who are educating and raising children like that how do you turn them on to Yiddish Kaida. How do they create a a connection to the Rabum that they just seem not to have an interest in? I think I think again the patience is a huge factor. Sometimes a kid a lot of kids you know that maybe are not ready to buckle down for whatever reasons whether they can't sit still whether just can't get whatever reasons they're not ready to sit down till 18 patients. So many kids have been killed before they had the chance because they've been given negative message. you're not learning, you're doing this, you're not doing that. If we see kids positively, I assume you want to do good. Another V I like to say is parents will ask the child, I don't understand why you're doing this. I can't understand why you're doing it. Or maybe says, can't understand why you're not learning. I can't understand is a rhetorical question. How about I want to understand? Why is it that it's hard for you to learn? Another thing I like to say is that a lot of kids have questions. And you know, a kid told me that he asked Revy once women cannot wear pants and the Revy threw him out of the classroom. The kid meant the question. Sometimes kids ask questions and where, oh, they're just asking could be provocative. Provocative. They're just asking because they're looking for an excuse to to to do whatever they want. This is very important. Kids that are drugs and other things, they're not doing it because they're happy and they have such a birya. It's stupidity. They're just in pain and they've been hurt and this is a diversion, a distraction for them. Mhm. People want to live meaningful lives. They do. If you understand that and assume it, you'll see a lot of answers and you'll ask, you'll be curious. Ask the kid. I want to understand. But a lot of these kids did not always have her met. First of all, you have a 25 30 kids in your class. Maybe they didn't get the time they needed. They need more time. A lot of kids, you know, don't belong. They just I was just told someone recently, look, in the old days, kids want to work at 10. Is a school system like perfect for everybody? Not necessarily. So we have to keep these things in mind. Not everyone was geared to go to to school the way it is. So you have to I wish I wish that hopefully the specialist gets out. We have to open more yeshivas that are more accommodating. Everyone wants to be the yeshiva and nobody wants to open up a yeshiva. First of all, you can be an olive kid brains but you can't sit still, right? People don't realize that you could have a baze gimble kid who could sit and learn but but can't learn as fast. But we give a message unfortunately in in some places that if you're weaker in learning like you know your second rate your second rate so that kid first of all loses inspiration very often be too early people need to open up yeshivas that are accommodating don't make the yeshiva what you want success to be focus on the kids you have you know some yeshiva always throwing kids out maybe you have to think about maybe I need to do something different rather than get rid of the kids and are you prepared to do something different same with parenting thing. It's not about what you want your kid to be. It's about what my kid needs. It's an amazing message, a vital message I think but more people need to hear that now in your newest safer. Let's going back to a void. Talk about the content of the cafer. What was the focus in writing it? It's very different than talk about what the goal is. So we're the truth is you go to Lavoda we're going to like a whole different world like a take two here and I'm going to be you know it sounds strange but I believe I'm being honest. So this is really the the story. Um I know shik is so much to writing a safer like at all those that you know have learned it will learn it will understand it's a it's a safer right um what happened was I don't know exactly the details there was a mine today is a man ai jaffy so he would get me I used to pick him up from the dorm very early in the He's a big sadic. If I was running a little late, he would he would just walk even though it was 10-minute walk uphill. So, I started going with him early in the mornings and one day I just picked up a darashem with the captain's translation and I pretty much read the English. Okay, not so smart. I read the English and I fell in love with it. It's not the first time open here and there. I don't know what happened. It's merely a unusual story. I just fell in love with it. I learned it about two, three times over the next few months and I just kind of jumped. I went to different places which I'm not there today. In fact, I would not put out the safer today just because I'm embarrassed even if I had the information. But when I wrote it, I meant it. And similar to amidos, I didn't sit down to write the safer. It did happen very fast. I was on a higher plateau for about a year and or year and change and some point six months in I all the material came to me during that it wasn't like which was 10 years of work it all just came to me because the dashem talks about the everything in close to hashem so then I started thinking one second and this is something which I think the safer is very helpful for when you ask somebody what's the main thing about being a part of Yiddish guiding Torah. What about me? Oh, it's also important. What about it's also important? So, I started thinking how does it come together? So, and then Hashem just gave me flooded me over the next few months with explanations, understanding and safer is just a gift from Hashem. Sounds arrogant, but I don't know, but it's uh just a gift from Hashem. And but to summarize you would say it's more about how to cultivate and and nurture our relationship with so to summarize summarize is first of all explanation that the goal is closest to Hashem. One of the examples I use is you're running from the bathroom to go to the besh as you're mumbling ashar it's a it's besides the fact it's not the way to make and I'm talking to myself too but there's also a misunderstanding of why you're running to the base medish. You run to connect to hashem and as you're mumbling to hashem to get there. So really the first section is all about the the goal of getting close to Hashem with a lot of nice ideas and then I go through different sections Torah first but how each different area gets you close to Hashem and more different ideas in each section like what is about you know I even have an cute I even have a section in inod called amidos and I talk about how midos affects our relationship to Hashem. Your original we could say is more this is as relates to our relationship with me you know I'm not any way but it'll be like it's two different focuses you know well the message in this and all your seem to resonate with people it's something you're talking to us not over our heads I think that seems to be something that you've tapped into is that something that you do cognitively on purpose is it just the way your muser has evolved what would you I think it's because I'm not so not so smart and I don't understand like when I write I should say I should say your tummy told me that you're very humble. So I don't know if this is just sheer humility. I'm not humble either. Um but all so many things I I write about you know all my said is a gift. It's not crazy concepts but it's a gift. But a lot of what I talk about in general is just common sense. And I've never had anyone like he could argue with me. When you tell the kid to do something, tell it to him nicely. There things you don't argue with just it's just common sense. So maybe Hashem gave me a certain yashras hopefully that I have not corrupted too much. Certain yashras of seeing things in a in a straight way but common sense is not so common. So that's why we need someone like you to enlighten us to help us out. you know should be should be za but uh well we definitely appreciate that message we thank you for coming out from waterberry from tene to here for this conversation mazav on the release of this new say for a very exciting achievement for you'll be messiah and many others keep enlightening us any closing message that you have for us as we conclude the conversation I would say just be honest just be real be willing to look at yourself, understand yourself also like we spoke about people need cover and people are afraid I think to look at themsel because oh I have this shortcoming I have that shortcoming if we would just it's okay it's okay to have shortcomings I have more than anyone else it's fine the question we have to ask oursel is am I trying to get there am I trying to work on myself so really amidos who's working on your midos between you and yourself. It's been but it's really been that you're working on yourself. So many people are good outside the house but maybe not as good unfortunately inside the house to be a real person. And the same thing comes to the voda and again I have to work on myself to be real you know to to work on our ding to unfortunately today there's a lot about PR and we have to remember what PR sometimes we need to do but we don't want to live our life as one big PR. We want to be real when no one else is around, when no one else sees to me and myself, what am I up to? What am I working on? What do I want to become? Well, thank you for those messages and we should all be to be real, to live real, and to personify these eternal messages, these important messages that you've taught us. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you very much. [Music] to