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Inheritance in Modern Times with Rabbi Mordechai Willig
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As Daf Yomi learns Perek Yesh Nochlin, we had the opportunity to hear from Rabbi Mordechai Willig Shlit’a about the process of yerusha today, how the current process developed and the importance of doing all one can to maintain family harmony. Rabbi Willig is the Rabbi of the Young Israel of Riverdale, Rosh Yeshiva RIETS, Av Beis Din, and Beth Din of America.
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
[Music]
so it is covered as we learn through the
many and people's minds and hearts are
tuned or in tuned to theim of
inheritance yusha nla so we learned we
learn M that are pretty straightforward
simple basic rules and I think we
see we don't see that that's the way the
the the V the world is actually dividing
up their inheritance so we invited on
morai willig who wears many hats he's a
RV in Riverdale or Shiva in Wu but I
think for this presentation we reached
out to him as the abz ofz of America and
perhaps the r from all these three
different angles could take us from the
beginning through to what the Min is
today why we do this and perhaps how we
interlay this how we are able to work
aligning what the teror requires with
the secular
law thank you very
much this is a very thorny
issue generally speaking we have
complete amuna that the Torah is not
only absolutely true and immutable
but also that the values of the Torah
are true and immutable and therefore we
are always attempting to maintain to the
best of our abilities the letter of the
law and the spirit of the law it's clear
in
the and as en learning knows fully well
that is very clear the Torah tells us
that if there is a firstborn he receives
a double share other Sons re receive a
single share and daughters receive zero
it's not a
question and yet in many of our circles
this is not done ways are found and
we'll discuss them in detail to somehow
circumvent what the Torah exactly wanted
which is a a Pella usually we are very
much opposed to this and of course
whenever it comes to things of this
nature we have to be guarded by the G
but the Giants of the generations who
teach us and inform us when we have to
be strict and maintain the law of the
Torah as it stands no matter what that
the chips fall where they may or when in
certain circumstances ways can be found
to change things a little bit for higher
purpose again governed by
gor let's go back to the Rama who is
certainly the godor and is the still the
godor for ashkanazi Jews who was in some
ways you might call him a renaissance
man he lived at a time when things were
changing in the the Jewish World in the
outside world certain liberal winds were
blowing affecting Army Israel and what
was happening was that if the laws of
theha would be followed precisely it
would lead to terrible disunity disputes
divisions divisiveness within
families because the women felt
disenfranchised and discriminated
against and there was some kind of a
device which was introduced by the in
his preceded him of course
called let's discuss that briefly right
now
what in those days of the Renaissance in
the 16th century if a man would have two
sons and two
daughters no just to make it easy so by
Torah law two sons each get 50% the
daughters got
zero in order to maintain the peace with
something called the
what's let's not get too egalitarian
give the woman a half of the share that
a man gets that'll make us satisfied so
if there was two sons and two daughters
the two sons would each get one3 and the
each daughter get one six that was a
which is found both in Evan and how does
it work work exactly so just to make a
long story short what happens is that a
man accepts upon himself a
responsibility for an inordinate sum of
money more than he has or ever will have
and just to make it simple again he will
indemnify himself to his daughters so
let's say he I guess for most people
this enough he condemned themselves to
his daughters for 100
million okay so each daughter will get
$50
million leave what what does that leave
for the sons
zero he doesn't want that so he puts in
a condition and says if if the sons who
are the rightful heirs who were entitled
to 50% each will of their own give each
of their sisters one six of the total
estate then this obligation is null and
void so therefore now the young men
would call behind the eightball if they
don't give their sisters one six they'll
left with zero because creditors take
priority in any inheritance and they'll
left with nothing so forcing their hand
to of their own give their their sisters
one six of the estate they left one3 of
piece that's simple workings
of why did it fall into disuse so the m
today you know why cuz now they
want they want exactly equal that idea
is found in the classical Parish from
hundreds of years
ago and of our time think it's a very
important idea to reestablish
a in order to see to it that we Al
shalom shalom that Shalom that peace and
Harmony should dwell in in our midst
and let me give you my personal
history 40 something years
ago asked me to write something for one
of the W Publications alumni that people
should know that they should have some
kind of a document of this type in order
to make sure that their secular will is
in fact Hally binding the most
authorities the secular will is not
binding CU a
there a very notable
exception seems to say that it might be
might work on the grounds
of you're supposed to follow the words
of the person who passed away it is true
that in it is stated based that's only
true if you
actually the money was given in the
person's lifetime to a third party to
then give it over to the people whom he
designates in his lifetime Raa seems to
think that that's only needed in order
to make it actionable because once it's
in the third party's hands and escrow
he'll do what the what the decedent what
the person who passed away wanted
whereas if it's still in this his The
House of the person passed away they
won't necessarily follow what he wants
he's longer alive says ra if you write a
secular will which is the government
will force the man's wishes to be
fulfilled it's the equivalent of
and therefore it would work I would say
that most authorities are not accepting
Ra's opinion if it comes to a Tor it's a
very complicated matter who do you
follow we don't want to get involved
withus so
therefore ask me just to write up a
brief document
basically well the truth is he didn't
tell me at the time 40 something years
ago what to say all it was as follows I
all of my two two daughters $100 million
but if my sons who are my rightful Torah
HS will follow what is written in my
last will and
testament whatever is there then the
obligation is not and void so then the
person can tailor make his will any way
he wants he give the money to his
daughters he can give the money Tock
whatever he wants but typically even at
should not be taking the money if
there's no such document because the
money belongs to the sons not not to the
stock up doesn't matter what you wrote
in your will but if you have this
accompanying document so then you can
owe the fortune money to somebody else
and the sons who would otherwise get the
money would be are stuck behind the
eight they better follow the will the
rest they get nothing so they're going
to follow the will and they give the
sisters an equal share typically today
and they give ster to whatever the first
left with ster otherwise they got
nothing this is what he asked me to do
40 something years ago was printed in
one of the publications of the
fast forward to now this week 17 years
ago pasas Noah 2007 he asked me do
something further he's seen so many
fights in families get up and say the
truth that the best thing to do is
a just give everybody an equal share
even though it's not what it says in the
Torah but it's for a higher reason the
reason of Shalom to which I wrote
something which is called inheritance
without a fight writing a will in modern
times and it starts with the PK we read
two days ago said to his brothers had
two sons one killed the other because of
the inheritance of the world the
problems of inheritance already go back
a long long long time a long time it's
really a sad fact that there are people
who fight over these things which leads
to really terrible terrible um results
splits in families which can last
forever it's terrible there's an
expression in you know a famous
expression where there's a will there's
a way there's an expression in America
today where there's a will there's a
fight that's a very sad comment but
unfortunately I've seen it to be true
sadly um and what do we do to overcome
this we have to be wise and follow
theor who have taught us that nowadays
things have
changed I refer you specifically to a
statement in the famous sa called the
G the G
wasinski
who's from we call him a background from
the old yes in he wasn't someone who
could be accused of some kind of a
modernism or liberalism in any which way
and he
tells you the following story the story
is actually frightening it's a story
which took place in the holy city of
where there was an
individual who wished to be an idealist
and a purist and he left in his he's a
wealthy man that the money should be
divided exactly it says in the
Torah and the girls got nothing and what
was the result you think okay when the
holy city of they're still going to
fulfill what it says I read you the
words from the listen
carefully since the to give for
daughters it's also the law of the land
someone who has an who was who was a
little preent make sure to give his
daughter one minut two she'll otherwise
go to secular court and get her equal
share and they'll come to
I
quote
like this is the sentence one more
sentence I was say it in Hebrew and
repeat it translate
English and he Beque hatred competition
divisiveness in his
family the people
[Music]
said it wasn't worth it to leave over
property and to bequ hatred he would
been better off dying penniless this is
the P me you can look at up this is very
serious very serious we have to try to
avoid such a terrible consequence so
therefore
the to my view is the only way to do
it there are many other ways to have
some um
measure of fixing the problem
without uh basing your on ra which I
told you was
controversial there is something which
is called a
trust I'm not an expert in in in this
but I think they even call today trust
in the states cuz that's the way you get
you eliminate paying money so much in
taxes to Uncle Sam trust and the
revocable trust and irrevocable trust
they're not the same in law they may not
even be same in now leave it to the
attorneys to figure out how you deal
with that it seems to me that a Trust
From what I understand it uh although in
American law it's a what called a
barrier it's a an independent entity
independent entity
and for tax purposes doesn't belong not
to the father not to the son it's tax is
a separate entity like a corporation
most authorities don't accept
corporations as an independent entity it
belongs to the people who own the
company so here too so who who does it
belong to so on a simple level one can
say that the trust is as follow the you
know about
this in other words the item itself
belongs to the beneficiaries now but the
pus the reality the control of it and
the the benefits from it only will accur
to those beneficiaries after the person
passes away which perhaps may be
something which is
advisable but again I'm very careful not
to get involved in in in tax law perhaps
a trust would be a way to avoid uh the
problem perhaps we know not we're not
exactly sure how a trust should be
should be treated it may depend if it's
revocable or not uh an irrevocable trust
which you have no control whatsoever and
all the money is already given to your
children and you're at their Mercy is
not a good idea the is very very upset
about somebody who's at the mercy of his
children financially it's a terrible
thing and a
we happen to be learning right now in
our Yesa it's a bad thing to do if it's
revocable then it may not pass muster in
terms of the problems of of of yusha
it's a little complicated can't go into
every less detail now there are however
it seems to me quite a number of things
which bypass yusha completely bypass
yusha I'll give an example what if
jointly owned property typically in
America today if I correct a home which
for most people is their most valuable
asset is owned jointly by husband and
wife that's that's
typical there's automatic
survivorship I believe not only in
American law but even in if the house
belongs to to to ruven and Ro and one of
them passes away automatically goes to
the other spouse that's an understanding
that they had when they bought the
property in effect was a kind of a
they're buying it for both of us but
the goes to the surviving spouse so then
in theory you wouldn't really require
any kind of a will
or if the only asset you have is is a
house what about a bank
account again I believe I'm not so sure
that most bank accounts that couples
have is once again jointly held and is
again laws of survivorship if ruen and
RL have a shared back account and one of
them passes away the other one is
automatically the Survivor and it also
bypasses the laws of of yusha in my
opinion that everyone agrees with me I
think it's it's
correct and then of course there are the
automatic items which go after a person
passes away such as pension accounts
insurance accounts which all have to
have a written beneficiary typically
it's the surviving spouse that could
also really bypass the laws of of yusha
so a person who has not do have too much
money in theory doesn't even need not a
secular will and not
a it just automatically passes
nonetheless I would uh think it's a a
good idea when a person get reaches a
certain age which I've reached already
that a person should fill one of these
things out both a secular will told us
it's helpful for a variety of reasons as
well it should be accompanied by AAR Z
SH so I will just tell you what happened
to my own family when my uh mother
passed away my father came he wants to
rewrite his will say I'm a wants to give
me an extra share I said ABA I've been
around the block I've seen too much I
don't want one nickel more than any of
the other children in the family and so
he agreed with me what AAR in his will
he brought four children two boys two
girls equal shares and and he also gave
a lot of M TOA which of course we I
believe it was I think he said gave 10%
TOA which we devoted up based on his
wishes and there was no fights
whatsoever as a matter of fact in my own
case my brother and I were the executors
an Executor I found out in New York
state is automatically entitled to
$25,000 off the top I told my brother I
don't want one penny I I don't want
don't you to think that we're going to
read this week Lo has sh AR don't I want
to get rich from this my brother needed
the money more than me at the time but
all right it only cost us 12 and a half
thousand because we know so we we we
took we we we uh gave up on our rights
of that that fee we everything split
down the middle Shalom that's the way it
should be and when I wrote my own I try
to follow as much as I can to the uh
extent possible to what uh was done in
the previous generation I have over here
a a typical will which there are those
who maintain and Goldberg with whom I
consulted about this he printed about
this said you should leave something
something should be given based upon the
laws of the Torah so in the olden days
what it something the the house today
the house that's that's that's almost
the only only asset so they say
,000 and typically
it's
forign I over here this is just a draft
for someone to
use I hereby be all Jewish books and the
sum of $1,000 exclusively to my Torah HS
according to the form for inheritance
prescribed in the code of Jewish law
other words this is uh to to be y with
something and everyone has their own
amounts and their own situations how
they want to do that the only purpose in
their mind should be shom between the
children that's the only gold that we
have over here otherwise we have no
right to tamper with what the Torah says
I told you before but there are more in
his
dayin in his day is that salad now in
our days also said the same thing you
have to do whatever it takes to make
shom if you do that you're not in
violation I'm just giving you what you
learned about in abant you learned about
that a big problem theer how do you do
that the gamorra is very upset but
somebody who
is in certain
cases all these are very important
considerations but the more most
important consideration is shom and
therefore that's the way it is you'll
ask me why is it that we're not standing
up for the Torah said Ron and every
generation have to understand when
they're able to be purists and idealists
and when they're not if the felt they
were not who are we to say differently
to try to impose the torah's precise
prescription
on would likely instead of listen to
what the Torah had to say rather to
fights and fights are a terrible
terrible there enough fights in clest
without having fights within families
based upon upon yusha so now in terms of
the details of how one does this so I
have it a a document which is it's just
a draft people can t with all they want
so what is it saying
the person obligates himself effective
immediately to
my
spouse okay if if he or she survives me
or if not to my daughters this is just a
draft okay in equal shares some
of I don't know I once gave a share in a
wealthy community I said $100 million
they started snickering not enough money
yeah Al but let take it100 million
okay but not payable until one minute
before my death so no one come ask money
for me now no on the condition I do not
retract this obligation any time prior
to my death a person change his
mind either someone did something
someone passed away in the interim and
there were all kinds of situations you
may want to change this okay and you you
I stipulate they given the option The
Heirs carrying my last R and Testament
Etc trusts and transfers d d if they
abide by the terms of my directives this
obligation is null and void but if they
contest it object to it whether in a
civil court or a bezin the obligation is
absolutely valid fine
now
fine the obligations undertaken by a
Kenyan sud and
that's interesting why that if you
learned a little if you're
holding before if you remember there a
thing called as and as which is a
contingency obligation of of a large
amount which is exactly what's happening
over here would require to overcome
the as a matter of fact there's a
beautiful beautiful cont called midor by
Renu
of um and he contends with this issue by
putting
in in order to the can overcome these uh
these issues the whole discussion what
is about this this came up in other
contexts as well but that's no time to
go into it now here's something which an
attorney told me to add I'll read it to
you no consideration with received by
the obligor in exchange for this
obligation what's that all about so a
lawyer told him if that's the case if
there's no consideration in secular law
this is
D you have to have consideration that's
relevant for tax purposes some going to
say I have to give more money and taxes
to the government because you have this
out and your in your court this is
meaningless no consideration of course
for you don't need consideration h you
know you have to be a little cute that's
why this statement was put in over here
the above conditions are made in
accordance with the laws of the Torah
and tamic jurisprudents and the man of
the conditions which are imposed on the
tribes of God and Ru as AR from Numbers
chapter 32 there all kinds of if you if
you learn this suus you also come up
with in the sugus and these masas H
love which comes first it's not theice
it's complicated it's called a term also
from is incorporation by reference you
refer to to to that peric pasas mat so
all all the laws are Incorporated this
is something which the tour has this the
tour has this
inim with respect to conditions about
marriage it says all you can you don't
want to put out the condition just
incorporate by
reference and it works so it works here
as well fine and this is a binding
and you you sign it you sign it it's
interesting the question is well what
makes it
valid what makes it valid how do you how
how do it how does it become valid what
what do you do the answer is as follows
if I have it and put it keep it in my
drawer it may not be valid you know
people keep lot of things in their
drawers ideally should be given to the
beneficiary
but you may not want to do that not even
wants to know his kids want should know
what what's what he's writing what's in
his will who you don't have to give it
to your children necessarily give it to
any Jewish
person for whom we apply the principle
of the document is given to Ru and he
can acquire on behalf of shim so a
person has a son who name shim he
doesn't want to get involved gives it to
an attorney he's a Jewish whose name is
Ru and of course the copy should be kept
with the person's will with with there
important papers you know one never
knows how long is she going to
live this I believe is the uh
appropriate way to handle this otherwise
very thorny situation obviously this is
just an overview you're learning you're
learning there's so many so many details
you know a good son a bad son uh you
know you learn about those things if you
haven't that D is not up to it yet
you'll get to it soon and we try not to
take things from a bad son to a good son
my recommendation again it's only
recommendation once again the money
should all go to the spouse now
in uh if the wife predeceases so the
B so you shouldn't even need this on the
other hand it's only if you're learning
not you've learned those comparison it
could be a bank account that's
considered to be Roy that's don't really
it's just money that the Bank owes you
it was a whole din Torah about this
years ago so it's it's worthwhile having
that the the will and the stars in both
directions uh
again some lawyer came to me once and
said it's a very bad idea why because
what'll happen the man leaves all of
this assets to his wife nothing to the
children and that's a good idea because
says it's not good for the Ala should be
depended upon her children the other way
around the children should depend upon
the AL they'll give her the proper
respect K requir he was worried what
will happen if she will then remarry and
then by all the money go to the second
husband and leave the children with
nothing ah so we have this carat where
the the um it it is understood between
the parties that upon the P of the first
of the spouses that the second spouse
will then know have their will which is
already crafted in life of both of them
the money should go to the
children you can never know nothing is
five con this piece is a very convoluted
kind of obligation in case one child
will go along or one child will not go
along it's too complicated for me I try
in one page and that's why we have uh
this type of uh s simple
simple uh kind of a document literally
fits on one page maybe two sides of a
page if you have all the other things
involved and it's
pretty fairly easily understood I
recommend it very strongly I recommend
the document in general I recommend the
division of property the implies as
proper to
avoid and you know when I speak about
this I quote
the famous P we say all the
time so we typically translate
it should be children your grandchildren
and shom on
CL says no it means shom on your own
family that's what it means if you have
their grandchildren there's no there's
no problem so here too a person is
blessed with with certain amount of
money
uh he wants to make sure that the shom
and the family the greatest wish of
parents that the children should get
along that's the most fervent wish of
all of all parents the worst thing in
the world is that children are not
getting along with each other so you
have to be have a little foresight and
do what I'm we're saying now in order to
make sure that this peace we hopefully
that every parent Witnesses in his old
lifetime can continue even Beyond that's
my presentation if there questions I'm
happy to take
them so just in Closing one last one
last question as a r so I've listened to
this
presentation my parents have taken care
of this I'm sure there are many people
listening whose parents have not taken
care of this how would the r suggest
broaching this idea and topic to the
parents I'm sure it's based on
presenting the shom aspect but anything
specifically how parents how children
with and proper present this to their
parents that's a general question not
limited to
what we're discussing here today when a
parents get a little bit older
so we hope that they're wise enough to
take care of their
Affairs generally in an appropriate
fashion but sometimes children you know
I think that the first prerequisite for
any such conversation should be
unanimity among the children would not
be good for ruven to go to the parents
and say B and then shim will say the
other way around and then already
causing a fight for no reason and
prematurely but if the children agree
that perhaps the parents are not doing
what they're supposed to be doing take
care of themselves or or or they're
thereafter someone should speak to them
on behalf of all the children in a nice
way I'm not limiting myself to the to
the sometimes there's a problem you
know
sometimes
parents when they get older one of their
responsibilities should be be to
purchase a grave Cara I believe is is a
person gets a little older that's
something which you don't want to leave
it to your children in in a sudden
situation there a scr and here and there
what are we going to do that's that's
not you wouldn't want that in some SP
it's
written the person turns 50 that's when
they should purchase a Kevin people die
before 52 but we hope everyone leaves at
least that long today's world
that's what I
did I felt my wife were turning 50 and
should be a school of so far it's
working we hope to work for many more
years but if the parents have
nothing and the child is you know knows
about it ABA IMA TTI momy daddy mommy
you know something to think about it
should be in America should be in
Australia or the people have different
Wishes the same is true when it comes to
um healthc care proxies
another topic which I think is important
I believe that at some point in time I
already signed one it's it's it's a good
idea because
otherwise a person is not 100% sound
mind and what are they G to do what did
what did daddy want what did Mommy want
she said this she said this I heard this
I heard that if it's in writing with the
signature it's very very helpful and of
course the same thing I believe is true
with respect to our topic which is which
is uh a will
many many people pass away with no will
none it's a it's a problem from the
perspective of tax law the government
could take many more dollars if a person
dies in testate and it could also lead
in my opinion to a worse result which is
a if Uncle Sam takes the money no but if
if the kids are fighting about the money
that's worse so I believe that a person
should approach a parent in this fashion
now it could be parent to a very
idealist and purist and say what do you
mean my dear son the Torah the Torah
says I'm
learning what are you telling me we know
exactly what it says pull out the G page
M I think it's an English too G and just
tell over the story and say that he was
a very respected Jerusalem Rabbi from
the old school the old yesu and he felt
it was true then it's certainly true now
and I would I would recommend that every
child recommend to the parents what I
just said that the the the the money
should go to the surviving spouse and
there should be an understanding and she
be written in if possible that when the
second spouse passes on that the money
will go to the children in equal shares
not withstanding a and boys girls that I
believe is the way to ensure that the
peace will be maintained even not only
until May but even Beyond May sadly if
there's nowhere like that people
something jocking position even before
the May of Y I've seen that too which is
in some ways even worse but that's the
way I would approach it but but it
shouldn't be with any uh dis difference
of opinion within the children
themselves that could be lead to
a unfortunate conclusion of a fight even
in the parents lifetime I believe that
most parents today in our society are
fairly sophisticated and will agree
thank youate it all the best CTO bye-bye