In Times of War: Mental Health, Faith, and Finding Strength

Okay, thank you so much for everyone for joining tonight. Uh, my name is Andy Lawber. I am the executive director of Ammudim. Ammudim is a organization where we have the finger on the pulse of the mental health of Kai's mental health in this time of war where we're having this wonderful live stream to say that we're not alone. Amud is an organization at its core which provides vital mental health support and hands-on assistance to individuals and families and communities who are undergoing trauma and uncertainty and emergencies across the globe. And that's why it's such a an important time and we're so fortunate to have two wonderful leaders of CLA with us tonight. We're so thankful to have you here. Rabbi Ephraim Ephraim Goldberg who is the rabbi of the Boca Raton synagogue and the founder of the Shiva South Florida as well as a Mashpia worldrenowned Mashpia and Dr. Schlami Zimmerman who is a clinical psychologist a best-selling author as well as have a very popular podcast on living uh called the podcast therapy with Dr. Z in which this live stream will God willing be uh on that podcast once it's uh completed as well as Dr. Zimmerman is the chair of Amudim's advisory board. Well, thank you all again. We really appreciate it. We've been receiving a lot of emails and a lot of calls uh once this went uh out and people who are reaching out to us during this time of uncertainty uh going through certain emotional strain for those init on the front lines for those of us who might be out of Israel from a distance from afar many people expressing feelings of anxiety of helplessness and very much unsure what to do and we're here together to have a conversation and to be able to hopefully join together and gain some insight and gain some knowledge. And I just wanted to open really with who we truly are as a nation and and that is we are a resilient nation. Since our inception, since the beginning of time, Cly Israel has always been resilient and that's how we've always overcame many of our obstacles and continue to do so. And at now more than ever, it's time for us to really try to dig deep and be able to find that wellspring of resilience that's in our DNA. And I'd like to ask Rabbi Goldberg to have his opening remarks. We have time to have questions. If you look on your uh on the live stream on top, there's a chat icon. You can click on that and you can uh put in your questions there. We have questions that were sent to us. We will try our best to get to most of questions but this will be a conversation that we will be having between the three of us God willing and thank you again for coming Andy thank you so much a big thank you to Amu Living uh for hosting this conversation because the truth is that we know that whatever pain or whatever crisis anyone is in it's compounded by a feeling of being alone that no one else is going through it no one understands it and just just being together I know that I don't have the answers all the answers but just to be together itself hopefully can can lessen some of the the pain and the and the crisis. And Dr. Zimman, it's a big cover to be together with you and uh I'm grateful for for all that you've done to teach us and and looking forward to learning from you tonight as well. So just a few quick thoughts to open us up and I know that this is going to be an ongoing conversation. I'm looking forward to listening and to learning as well and and it's hard to have a podcast or a conversation like this because there are so many different audiences that we're speaking to. There of course are people maybe awake right now in Israel uh maybe who will listen to this later after it was recorded hopefully getting a good night's sleep tonight maybe the first in many nights and to them we're just in awe were in absolute awe of the resilience and you spoke about the mikra the Jewish people who are able 10 million there is no front line now only in Gaza or Lebanon and our heroic soldiers who've been fighting there but all of Israel it's with and breath all 10 million are on that front line because all have been running in and out of bomb shelters and waking and carrying children and escorting and assisting the elderly. And we're in awe of you. We're thinking of you. We're domining for you. We love you. We can't imagine what you're going through. And and we're thinking about you every moment of every day. And then there are there are those in in America outside of Israel who are worried and fearful, maybe have children, uh grandchildren, maybe those who are serving and they're worried about. And as I said, everyone's on a front line. We're all worried. And I think it's it's hopefully um powerful tonight that Dr. Zimman and I both have children in Israel. So, we're not just coming as outsiders commenting as spectators, but we're with you and we're also in constant contact and worried and concerned and calculating and trying to anticipate and predict and stay calm and keep them calm and so we're we're thinking about it. So, the different audiences and it's hard to speak to everyone and it's not all equal and that's something maybe we'll come back to later of of understanding our role and not projecting our experience and our emotion on somebody who's more centrally going through it. we as a parent in in can't can't begin to understand and shouldn't see ourselves as the the primary uh person in this crisis when we have children or grandchildren let's say in Israel who are the ones in shelters but I want to speak to all of us just to give a little bit of a a perspective from Torah and from hashkafa that I think also adds to our resilience and gives us strength to navigate moments and crises like this what makes this different than other crises personal individual ones which are complicated each in their own right is that this this is part of the unfolding of gula. We're part of the Jewish people and the Jewish destiny. We are experiencing the writing of a new book of of Tanak the miracles that are ongoing and that running in and out of bal shelters and that disappointment of those who were supposed to be done with yeshiva or seminary and supposed to have come back for the summer to go to camp to work to learn to begin dating whatever it was. Maybe those who have missed the family sim because they're simply unable to get out. This is the longest Israel's airport's been closed in his history, including CO in which it was open for some, but it's been closed for the longest time. And one of the ways that we can feel strength is to know that this is not senseless and baseless. This is not for nothing. This is not a suffering. This is not struggling. This is not uh navigating all for nothing. We each and every one of us in whatever way and wherever we fit into this puzzle are contributing to Claudius fighting this war fighting for our future. We're standing up and fighting for Hashem which itself is a kdish hashem. In last week's para when the Torah tells us we take out the the Torah we sing and anyone who's Omar whoever hates the Jewish people hates he is with us and our fight is not only for ourselves it's for him. This war has meaning and it has value and it's part of our very Jewish future and we have faith that from Hashem it's not random and it's not chance it's going to bring great things. We sing I know it wasn't just or but at the end of Alan we say and all the maf are puzzled and bothered why is it and some some say take out the Yeshu it should be that Hashem brings us this salvation others who says it means you fight these battles for us and he's fighting this battle we're seeing miracles every day he's fighting for us but most fundamentally the simplest understanding is alhamdas is part of the nim. It's through these wars that miracles come about that we never could have imagined. And of course, every loss of life, every casualty, every moment of anxiousness or worry is is is real and deserves to be respected and is not necessarily worth it. But we don't see it in isolated. We see these experiences in a in a bigger picture in a bigger context. the migill says that war is the beginning of and so those who are running in and out of bomb shelters are those who are far from them but worried about them those who are navigating what their summer plans were supposed to be and trips and and travel that was cancelled. Those who are trying to make sense of what we can do from afar know that there's a meaning there's a purpose that this matters. This is part of a process of gula that we're not just going through this and it has no meaning and it's just random and it doesn't add up to anything. It adds up to the Jewish people. It adds up to our very future. And that should give us a tremendous tremendous sense of strength. And I'll just add I'll just end by saying this. There's there's so much to say. Hopefully we will in conversation. But just in this opening comment, it's so important to know that as we're going through it, when a Jew is in gazina, the Almighty is with us. He's right by our side. When a person's running to a bomb shelter or a person is sitting by the phone waiting for hear from their loved one who did, you're not sitting alone. The theme of tonight in times of war, you're not alone. And aid, a Jew is never alone because Hashem is by our side. And he's never by our side more intensely says Rajbar who knew what it meant to run who knew what it meant to hide in a cave. And yet he told us that any place that a Jew runs the almighty the that sense of being accessible our neighbor the intense feeling of his presence he's right by our side. And that means that it's in these moments that we shouldn't feel helpless and hopeless. We shouldn't feel more distance or further from Hashem. We should feel closer to lean on and to lean into that relationship to realize whatever we're going through, whatever we're navigating, whatever we're balancing, whatever anxiousness we're working with is right next to us. We're never ever alone and anything I'm sure Dr. Zim will speak about. Anything we can take it on more when we know that we're not alone is not alone and we're most not alone because Hashem is next to us. He is right by our side. He didn't cast us into this position. He done pushed us in this situation. He did it because there's a reason. There's meaning and there's purpose. And aided a Jew is never ever at random or chance wherever we are. Both for those running in and out of bomb shelters or for those who are outside of Israel and we're expecting them to be back had summer plans are worried or nervous. But a Jew is always where they're meant to be. And that's why to be to be a person of means to embrace our place. Wherever we are is where we're meant to be. stop trying to change it. We have our bak. We do everything that we can. And when we've exhausted all of our effort and initiative, if we've done everything we can to change whatever situation we're in at that point, we submit and surrender. We embrace our place. And we recognize a Jew is where they're meant to be. Worrying, being anxious, being angry or resentful never made an airport open up and never made a siren go off and never made safety come. All it does is compromise your health, your happiness. But if you can embrace your place and realize Hashem is wherever I am especially when it's a place of gulos when a person feels distanced and exiled then we can make sense of where we are. We can lean in because the way to get out of any situation or crisis is the say it's that we're going to get out of this. So being resentful or angry or bitter or worried won't make it get better or go away will just compound it and make it worse. And if we could find that capacity to despite it and with it lean in and on Hashem and find that happiness to embrace our place wherever we are and our role in it then we'll have greater strength mitem to be able to get through it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That was beautiful and that's definitely defined resilience and one it encapsulates everything about aju with that is our resilience. our ability to weather that storm is just because understanding clearly who we are. Everything you said just resonated so well. Thank you so much. Dr. Zimmerman, can you please give us some opening remarks? Firstly, thank thank you so much Andy and Amudin for calling me to invite me and the Yakov langanger and live who who I work with closely as well. I really want to echo uh Rabbi Goldberg's remarks in the sense that I I was very resistant to doing this. You know, I'm sitting here in a New York-based nice private practice office and there are people there sitting in bombed out places with, you know, facing ballistic missiles from Iran. But, you know, whenever I say noted, he always says, "But there are people who need us and there are people struggling and people reaching out to amun." And so, that's it. You know, that's why we're here. Okay? That's myas to try to relate to connect. I don't think there are any major things that are psychopathological. When you're facing uh Iranian ballistic missile and you're fearful or you're nervous or you're shut off, those are all perfectly normal things to feel under sit situations. And we're not coming here with some magical terutsum to get you out of that. It's a suraka. This is a very very difficult it's a wartime. This is this is most people our age don't necessarily have the experience of being in a war zone and you know and they're theim who are on the front lines is one thing but but but Israel and particularly in Israel is is literally in a war zone right now and so all the rules of typical psychological reactions and things go out the window because the same way you you would expect somebody who's living in the war zone in the trenches to have very different reactions. We have to allow people to have that. And Robert Goldberg said it so beautifully because I I feel almost silly. We're here, we're talking about resilience and there's so much research on resilience and post-traumatic growth. And you know, you look at the research and some of it's beautiful and inspiring and then you look at the clips coming out from Cla. So this morning there was the person playing piano cuz tamid do he while with with his whole room was bombed out and you're like what how you talking such a thing? There was nobody who who could have thought to write that in a psychological article because they're not Torah Jews. That response, that ability to in the literally in a bombed out room to find the place to make music to play, that is something that's uniquely Jewish psychology. It's something above and beyond. It's honestly something most I I I don't think we could really wrap our heads around because it's not just a psychological, it's a spiritual thing. And the spiritual DNA that Abber's talking about is really what's at the core of this. and what we can't lose sight of because while we have to deal with the psychological we have to deal with all the thoughts and the feelings if we keep what Rabbi Goldberg said in mind that we're here with a mission we're here with a purpose there's no accident and each one of us has a toughkid in this so maybe the most famous book of all time about trauma and resilience was Victor Frankl's book man's search for meaning written mid a psychiatrist writing in the middle of the Holocaust. And this is really his entire premise that those who had a sense, who had a why could deal with almost any how. Those who had a sense I want to live for this. I want I have children. I have a vision. I have a future. I have God. Anything that was a beyond the self is what propelled them through the darkest times imaginable. And for some people they okay Victor Franco wrote a book that impacted millions when he wrote that he was there his book was actually torn up by the Nazis. He was completely broken and depressed at that time. And he said he got the message a wild thing happened to him. His baby at the time was a book he actually had written his work before and it was with him. The only thing he had left in his uniform was this manuscript and that was what he was holding on to. Okay, this will give meaning. I'll produce something for the future. And the Nazis Yakim made him change out of that uniform. And he said that was the one of the most difficult moments of the whole Holocaust for him is the sense of a loss of meaning and purpose. Now what? And he said what in some ways so many people in Kosol are experiencing now they made him change and in the new year for he got he stuck his hand in his pocket and he found in the old person's piece of sitter and he said it was a message from Hashem this is not about writing it's not about a story book for later I need you to live this and he said that transformed his experience in the Holocaust and this was not a religious man. He was had his challenges. This was not somebody. But Hashem winked and he was able to maintain a sense of meaning and purpose. And I think Hashem has gone so far beyond winking at us. We saw a hospital bombed out where just before that everybody was evacuated. Again, it's unfathomable. It's impossible to talk about it from a place of of logic of odds, none of it makes sense. And so while the overwhelming emotions don't make sense and we're overwhelmed and we're scared and we can't shut that off and we can't pretend to just what we call spiritual bypass. Okay, there's beauty, there's and I'm not going to feel anything. The human is complete complexity, darkness and light. We have a body. We have a yetahara. We are affected by our environment. Our emotions, our spiritual, our bodies, our minds, the voice in our heads will all chat and be negative and be fearful and be overwhelmed. And side by side, we can say, you know what, I have those thoughts and feelings, but they're not me. There's something beyond my consciousness, my nish, my das to sense that I can have those feelings. I can honor them. I can respect them, but I don't have to live by them. And what Rabbi Goldberg was saying is that a Jew lives beyond. And he turns to himself in any situation. He says, "This is no accident. So why was I placed here? What is my I wasn't stuck here. I'm sent here. So then why am I sent?" And some people obviously, you know, maybe right now we're sent to do this zoom. And a lot of people there are sent wake up, face your fears, wake up and smile at your child even though you're terrified. wake up and eat something cuz you haven't eaten a normal thing in hours. Try to nap in the bomb shelter because nobody slept normally in who knows how long. And people think, "Ah, that mind chatter, the negativity, the atah." He says, "Oh, what are you doing? What are you contributing? There's people on the front lines. They they're flying bombers in Tyran. Each person has their and we never know who is important by Hashem." And that's what the most difficult thing is the internal darkness that says what are you doing already or you're a mess so you have no purpose here. What my purpose is giving my kid bisley in a bomb shelter. Yes. One of my patients who's very very anxious and o has struggles with OCD in Israel told me this week that he's having a very rough go. He his wife and his young child. And he says but something amazing happened when they went down to the bomb shelter. Somebody had arranged bisley bomba coloring books and crayons. And aside for the kids having what to do that sense the rabbi Goldberg talked about that the most in the world the most difficult thing psychologically is to be alone. When your neighbor or your fellow Jew thinks and brings bisley into that bomb shelter you're no longer alone. And then you can take your and give your kids a bisley with a smile in a bomb shelter. And when you're regulated and calm despite everything you're experiencing, what do we transmit to our children is calm and courage despite adversity. We don't pretend everything's okay. We can tell them, we could be honest with them. We could be real, but we can also give over messages of courage, of facing adversity and finding meaning. And ultimately at the highest level, what we're seeing in mindbogglingly ways is producing light in the darkest places, which what we know psychologically is the best way for post-traumatic growth. And much more importantly, we know that's the recipe for gula. Thanks, Andy. Andy, can I jump in for just following up on one point Dr. Zimma made because it really I think it's so critical in being able to think of it and frame it. So much of life is is framing and it frames it differently, right? because we're speaking again to multiple audiences and there are those who are at the center of this circle of this experience in their concentric rings and circles that that build out of it. But what what all have in common is that it's complicated and it's anxietyridden and there are sacrifices that are being made. And a person might feel, you know, again, I I can't believe I missed being a counselor in that camp. I can't believe I missed that family vacation. I can't believe I missed that family simka. I can't believe they weren't able to come back or get home or get out or get there for the trip, the bar mitzvah trip to Israel we've been planning forever. Many listening, the target audience this time are not those in Israel. And it feels like for not for what? For nothing. Among the many reasons we want to hate Iran right now is they cost me that thing for nothing. I missed it for nothing. And I think the point that Dr. Zimmerman is making and that I'm I'm trying to echo is it's not for nothing. What if someone were to stop you and say, do you know what you can contribute to this war effort? You can keep clasol safe from a nuclear bomb if you're willing to not have that person at that. If you're willing to give up that vacation, if you can't go to camp this summer, would you give that up? Would you protect the Jewish people from a nuclear warhead and a bomb? If you're would you? So instead of seeing ourselves as insignificant to this and that whatever we've given up or whatever we're navigating, it's for not and why why bother? They say famously at NASA that if you stop the custodian at NASA and say, "What do you do for a living?" The custodian will tell you, "I help put man on the moon. You put man on the moon. You clean the toilet bowl. You empty the garbage." said, 'Yeah, I do those things and I do that because I'm helping put man on the moon no matter what. And we can't begin to compare the contribution of soldiers on the front line and pilots flying over Iran and dropping bombs and brothers and sisters running in out of bomb shelters are far from the same sacrifice that others are making. They're not all equal, but what they all have in common is that the sacrifice has meaning. It's our contribution to the future of the Jewish people. And so, as a person is trying to breathe through, and we'll hear, I'm sure, from Dr. ism how to navigate that that that sense of loss, that anxiety of of whatever we're giving up or whatever um didn't work out the way that we wanted. Don't just see it as something that's uncomfortable or something that you're resentful. See it as this is my contribution. I put man on the moon. I I give the Jewish people a future. I'm protecting the Jewish people from a nuclear bomb. What did you do to protect the Jewish people from a nuclear bomb? What I did is the vacation didn't work out. This person wasn't present at the SIMA and so on and so forth. It frames the entire experience that we're going through differently that enables us to see not only to not feel lost from it but to find meaning in it. Thank you. To have that shift in perspective is is extraordinarily important. And to echo what Dr. Zimmerman was speaking with do with the famous Dr. Victor Frankl who had a line in which he said an abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation is normal. And many people here feel that they're in an abnormal uh situation and maybe they feel their their reactions might be abnormal also uh and they're not comfortable with it. And we're getting a lot of questions regarding parenting parenting from afar, parenting from within Israel, parents who don't feel that they're regulated as you touched upon Dr. Zimmerman and able to fully be present for their children or know how to navigate this. Obviously, this is there's no playbook necessarily for war and parenting. At the same time, we have a unique situation going on where many people are parenting from afar. Either a mother or father is an aritral currently while their families in in you know inlar or vice versa and all the complexities that comes along with this. I'd like to know if you can please expand upon maybe give some more practical tools, some more insight for our listeners. So again, there's there's no simple answers and but I think what these times call for is digging deeper. We all know that parenting is much more about modeling than anything else that we say or do. But most of the time, we don't have to be forced to really model here. If you're 6,000 mi away or you're not regulated and you're one foot away from your kid who's in a bomb shelter, they're going to really experience a very difficult thing. And the flip side, if you're 6,000 mi away and when you pick up the phone, you can do that with an honesty. You know what? I'm concerned. I care. I've refreshed more Israeli news sites than I'd like to admit. They're starting to give me advertisements for all sorts of psychological disorders at this point. Um, if we can own our humanity, we don't have to pretend. I think the greatest gift in psychology is really at the bedrock of what it means to be Jewish is the sense, you know, in Kabad, they say you're not crazy, you're pregnant with twins. We are full mixture. You know, we have a part of us that's anxious, panicking, trying to control the world. you know, okay, Jordan, Egypt, Cyprus, boats, smuggling, right? Wow. You know, if you would look at some of us during the day, you would think, wow, Habib's on the phone with you like you you like get refreshed updates. Casseda, like you're is are you central command? Msad, what's your role? You know, like as if we're in control. That's the side of us that lives in illusion, in fantasy, in attempts at controlling, not in what Rabbi Goldberg said about face the reality. Where's your place? But there's another part of us that can be in place simultaneously. And that's the beauty. In a split second, you can acknowledge and accept those thoughts, those feelings, the distressed, even your own weakness in it. And also then be pa or psychologically turn towards the positive, turns towards the light. When I pick up that phone, I can pick up the phone. Oh my gosh, what's going on? How's it How was the night? Or I could take a few deep breaths beforehand, put myself in a mindset. Does my child need my anxious phone call? Or could they use a calm phone call? Could they use a bit of humor? Could they use a little bit of support? And sometimes we get it wrong. you know, my grand my my daughter like Rabbi Goldberg said is is there and she said to me at some point this week she's been on the phone with family a lot and she said I won't mention which grandparent you know trying to keep the family relationships intact but she says you know he this person called but I had to give them a lot of here she is you know a block from her seminary a piece of shrapnel blew up a car in a building and she's calmer than somebody back here that's life and we're all in different situations. So, the goal of parenting is similar. Show up. Be honest. Own your anxiety. Be real. Have a frank conversation. How are you doing? I'm struggling. I believe that we can communicate almost anything with children. If we're straight, if we don't overwhelm them with our stuff, if we're real and authentic, obviously the ideal is to model in our behavior. It was very interesting that you asked me about parenting, but Rabbi Goldberg was talking about this missing out. So, this past week, my daughter's seminary is finished and she's supposed to actually go to Poland to visit Awitz. All of my grandparents are Holocaust survivors and this is like a trip she wanted to have. I want her to have and and and this morning when you know, you know, I was doing this, I'm thinking to myself, she's losing out exactly the sentiment just I don't know if she'll ever get an opportunity to do that again. Like, it's so special. And then it just hit me like a ton of bricks. I was almost felt like my grandparents were looking down from a hit. They said, "Zimmerman, get your head on straight. What's the message of the Holocaust of Awitz? Of everything that our grandparents taught us was what was we don't cower, we persevere, we find meaning, we rebuild better. My daughter's living through nothing compared to Holocaust, but going there and hearing a story versus living through and having to find in this place right now with the loss of what she could do to find and say the Jewish people, look at us. We're under attack. We're under threats of annihilation. Look how we respond. Look what we've done. To remember our history and say sadly but truly, we're not we haven't this is not our first rodeo. When we want to talk to kids laid it out for us already. Our special night of for children is seder night. What do we say? Tell the he gives us the text. What's happening? In every generation they try to kill us calmly, very calm. Some of the some of the world they want to annihilate us and Hashem protects us and we're here. We don't pretend nothing but we eat. We remember the bitterness. We don't pretend. We don't just walk around pretending we don't have emotions. We don't forget not our past emotions. We remember 2,000 years ago pain. Certainly when people are dying, they're struggling. Their their addictions are flaring up, their panic attacks, all their mental health conditions. We honor, we respect, we're there. But we also remember we've been here before. This is our DNA. This is our tapit. And every single time you squeeze us, we're like the olive. You take out something beautiful. So what happens after what do we do? We rebuild new toyra new strength post holocaust. If you would have said to those grandparents who I wish my daughter could have gone to you're going to have a daughter in Eritis for a year in seminary. What the Israeli air force is bombing Iran? Would any of them have believed you? Could they imagine? No way. So, we can have both simultaneously and we can educate very straight. We can It's scary. We're here. We're together. But we're here. Look at us. We This has been tried to us before. We've been around. And if you transmit that, you can actually sing visha and you can actually sing in the bomb shelter and you can you know sing on the phone and say let's do a rec you know and the same thing any small thing you could find again there's a tremendous sacrifice in my daughter's ceremony but no s unbelievable thing a girl missed her brother's I think it was yesterday two days ago we lost track of time I'm used to speaking to my daughter when it's 2 three in the morning there now it's forget about now I can't tell day and night the whole thing is upside down so this girl here Nabak Like Goldberg said, she couldn't she couldn't make her brother's. So what did they do? They said, "No, we're making a here. We're going to get you a video hookup." And everybody's getting dressed. And the seminary, unbelievable, they hired a keyboardist. And during the dancing there, the all the students and the the administration and the teachers did the there. And this we've been through this co right and again we we had tremendous loss. I'm not mitigating the for a split second. you have and there's always going to be tilt towards that and you'll see I think that is going to be one she remembers forever and I think even the girl who missed her brother's and she'll have to live with that but I think what she experienced of not being alone and the sensitivity for one girl's thing oh it was enough let her watch let her join a few people have a watch party no that cla when we notice somebody's in pain we get outside of ourselves that's one other big piece you have to take care of yourself, you know, put your oxygen mask on first, but you want the best way to for post-traumatic growth, focus on the outside, focus on, focus how you could help somebody else. It actually helps you and helps them. And that's who we are. And then look at us. It's malar. So Andy, what's uh what else we got? I know we have Would you like to share anything before we go on to the next topic? I'll add just one one comment. First of all, that was so powerful and and as you were speaking, I was picturing, you know, what we were talking about before, which is that, you know, your daughter's sacrifice of her Poland trip was a contribution to defeating Iran. And this girl not being at her siblings wedding was her contribution to defeating Iran. And my daughter who has an internship at Amuda and Shallay having to balance doing her work with her kids gone, being closed, and being home with her is her contribution to defeating Iran. And that these aren't just random, senseless. Each is a contribution to defeating Iran. and to give credit and to say thank you for making that contribution and it's hard and you're making a sacrifice and parents who are missing their children here each of us are are sacrifices again not all equal but sacrifices the one thing I wanted to add there's a a clinical psychologist Susan Silk and she coined an expression the ring theory and in moments like this I think it's so important when I first read about it had a big impact on me and I try to share it when I can and her her theory the ring theory is the following whoever is going through the crisis most acutely the biggest victim so to say of is is the center circle and then you draw concentric circles around it and a person has to be macho. You have to know where you are. Are you at the center? Are you the victim? Are you once removed, twice removed, three times removed? And then here's the most important part. Once you can identify where you are and what your role is, her theory, what she says and and it's so powerful and so important. She says comfort in, dump out. Comfort in and dump out. That means to say that you don't call your child or grandchild in Israel who's running in and out of bomb shelters and say, "I'm so worried. I don't know how I'm going to get through this. I can't take this." To them, you comfort in. How are you doing? I'm in awe of you. I can't believe it. Tell me more. What can we do? We're going to have Wol delivered to your door. We're going to take care of you. I don't stop thinking about you. And then you find somebody who's in a further out circle than you. And you dump out. You dump out. So, you have another person who's living in America. You have a cousin. You have a co-orker. You have a neighbor. You want to tell them I have a child in Israel. It's just it's all I think about. I'm so worried. So a person has to draw these concentric circles and know who is the center circle and where am I on those circles. And then once you know that you comfort in and you dump out because sometimes we we do the opposite. We sort of make it about ourselves instead of recognizing it's about the other person. And we shouldn't project our experience on them. Whether our experience is we're calm and we're telling them why you so anxious or whether our experience is they're calm and we're wondering why aren't you more anxious. We shouldn't project onto them what we're experiencing and then creating some guilt or shame but we should understand where's our role where are we in this and how can we comfort in while while dumping out as Dr. just said our children, grandchildren, all of us going through this the rest of our lives, we will remember the war with Iran, tough shini, will remember this war for the last year and a half, almost two years that the Jewish people have faced on seven fronts. We will never ever ever forget. But as much as we won't forget the war, we'll also remember the way the people around us acted, how they behaved, how they felt, what they said. And we'll remember, were they were they comforting? Did they give? Were they calm? Did they lean into faith? Did they rely on amuna and bet? Did they embrace their place and understand their role or did they panic? Was it anxiety? Was it worry? Did it make it worse? And did it leave? I wrote an article this week. I talked about, you know, you think about 80 years after the ashitz. Dr. Zimman describes it's only 80 years later and Jews are running and fleeing an enemy again. This time very different because into bomb shelters that we built while an air force owns the skies over Iran and is destroying and defeating our enemy. Very different. And yet only 80 years later, we're still running. Is it any wonder that Jews disproportionately have gastrointestinal disease? 2,000 years of running from puggrams and expulsions and attempted exterminations. And here we are again in a bomb shelter, out of a bomb shelter. It's coming. It was intercepted. Shrapnel here, shrapnel there. Is it any wonder? And yet the resilience. But but our children and we will always remember. Did we come out stronger with greater purpose and mission? Were we more united? Did we feel we were connected to Jews. Did we comfort and dump out or will we always remember? Was so anxious and worried and I got phone calls and it was hard enough to go through it myself. Now I had to bear also the way my my relatives were dealing with it. So if we can if we can start sort of press pause and be very mindful and conscientious and conscious of what are the memories that we're creating, how will this be remembered in the future? How do I want it to be understood and experienced? Then maybe we'll we'll be able to experience it a little bit differently. And if we have to express our anxiety and worry because I'm sure we'll get to and it's critically important to get to is that one person shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed if they do feel anxiety. If you don't feel a little bit of anxiety over this, you know, check your pulse if you're alive. If you're not at all worried about what will be in the future and we don't know what's to come and what's going to happen, then then you better, you know, get an EKG, see if you're you're alive. So, it's not suggesting you should have guilt or shame for feeling any anxiety, but how is it expressed? To whom is it expressed? How do you regulate yourself with it? And what kind of memories are you creating from this from this experience? Thank you. That's wonderful. Really so insightful. We got questions really people uh struggling with the people who have become numb. They're saying from October 7th till today. Um people inclining that's become by wrote uh they've taken on certain things whether it be names of people and tum chats or whatever and at this stage in the game we're hearing from people that they don't know what what to do next. Maybe they have some other ideas. Maybe maybe you can share some insights as the the common uh theme really is between whether it be at work or whether it be where they're going, there's this sense of hatred that they're sensing over the war from their colleagues and from people that whether it be at work or for that matter just in the world. that overall sense where they're trying to balance this pride that they have in in being a Jew and proud of Israel and proud of the army and pr proud of all we're doing and at the same time managing all that what's that that's being thrown at them and trying to dig deep to find some sort of something they can do maybe some change to be able to give them the strength to to forge on forward okay is that me am I am I tackling that first Okay, thank you. So, um there's no question there's fatigue. There's enormous fatigue that's set in because how how long could your adrenaline pump and run your amuna adrenaline, your ais adrenaline? You're packing duffel bags and going on missions and sending money. If you're in Eritrol, if you're in Israel, you're living in real time the danger, the threat, the sirens, the warnings. How could it not create a fatigue? How could it not? How could it not? So, the first thing is to validate and acknowledge that's normal. It's understandable. It's hard. It's it's hard to how how it how it couldn't. You can only run a marathon for so long. For so long. Even the most long-distance runners. And this has been a long distance. This is a a very long time. Way too long. Way too long. When it comes to Amuna, you you packed Andy a lot of questions in there. But when it comes to the Amuna part, we're seeing already now it doesn't take 30 years or 300 years later at West Point when they're going to study this war and how it happened. We're talking within the first few hours, military experts are saying this far surpasses the six- day war, the miracles, the coordination that had to happen that had been happening for the last year and a half, whether it was the beeper episode in with Hezbollah or whether it's in Iran where they've been able to pull off pinpointed elimination of scientists of military experts bringing them all together. The deception that was created, these are miracles. And and maybe sometimes we need to pause and remember that I my I'm having fatigue in my this is why my should be on fire. I'm seeing miracles. There are miracles for the Jewish people. And those miracles don't happen out of nowhere. They happen in our merit. They happen because we come together and because we ask for them. We know from the beginning of created a world and he was ready to make it rain. There was an ecoycle and there was a heaven and earth and there was vegetation ready to grow. But Adam there wasn't yet man. Rashi says there was no one to dam so he couldn't. Hashem has she abra the shebra called the elimination of Iran. The shebra called the return of the hostages. The shebra called a true lasting genuine peace in Israel. The shebra called dismantle bomb shelters and bus stops. There are bomb shelters all over Israel. That hashem is waiting to be able to shower us with that braha. But it doesn't happen till we first dab. The benesai says doesn't just mean man wasn't there to daven. means a man who doesn't dav isn't a man. A person who doesn't dav isn't a person. You're not you're not a person. We were created breathed life into us. He gave us the power of speech. It was the original creation. It differentiates from the animal kingdom and there was no one to talk to. Why did he make us speak? There was none to talk to. The answer is there was from day one. The original purpose of the creation of speech was to talk to Hashem. That's an ongoing conversation that can't end. We have to talk even more and even louder and listen even more carefully in our conversation with him because there are miracles and there are more miracles waiting but they need they need our our amuna or I picture when I say tollum because yeah was it over the last period of time beginning to feel stale and fatigue. It woke right up last Thursday night when all of our phones got the alert schools are closed. Stay near your shelter, airports closed down. We're attacking Iran. None of us knew at that moment what could be, what would be. How did your your your your not become reinvigorated? So I'll tell you what I picture. I literally try to picture it. Our tahillum knocking out their tieum, their missiles. I picture my again it comes back to there's meaning, there's purpose. These things matter. We believe in it. This isn't hypothetical or theoretical. It's not the opium of the masses. It's genuine. There's a Bolton is the creator of the universe and he has a relationship and we are his chosen people. And this war of Iran is not only against the Jewish people, it's against God himself. And when we daven when we dav when we launch that fela on its way to Shamayim to heaven, it can knock a ballistic missile out of the sky. Of course, it's our heroes running the the David Sling and the Arrow and the Iron Dome and the brilliant scientists who created it. We give them credit and we express our gratitude to them. But they created something that the whole world said couldn't be done. American physicists, engineers the world over all said it couldn't be done. Who gave them the power to do it? He gave us that ability. And if we wanted him to continue to give us the ability, then who knows? Who knows whether a missile is going to get through or not get through might m might depend on whether your is going to knock it out of the air. If you knew that, if you could picture that, if you had that told to you, would you not say it to him like you meant it, like it mattered, like it meant something? Of course you would. So, it's a time to lean in every even more. But I'll tell you one other thing. You know, we have today we can I I try to use the image of Wi-Fi. Sometimes you're having trouble connecting. Your device isn't connecting. It's almost the summer. Those who will hopefully all be able to go on vacation. You're on a hike. You're in nature in the wilderness. This one has a connection. That one doesn't have a connection. What happens in your own family? What happens with you with someone else? You say to them, "I have no connection. I have no bars. I'm going crazy. I'm going crazy. Probably do a whole other podcast, a whole other conversation on this and technology. I'm going crazy." Oh, you have you have two bars. Can you make me a hot spot? Can you make me a hot spot so I can connect through you? There's a concept in Amuna where you can make someone else your hotspot. Like Dr. Zimman talked about. Watch the video of the guy playing piano and he's your hot spot for Amuna. Talk to Holocaust survivors who are still we're privileged and blessed to still yet have in our midst with all that they went through and how they've rebuilt and use them as your hot spot. The stories coming out of Israel Israel the amazing people turn them into your hot spot. Don't let fatigue set in. It matters. You know for whom fatigue can't set in soldiers on the front line. You think in Gaza or Lebanon or Air Force pilots flying into Iran can say exhausted. I haven't slept. It's gotten old. I'm not really feeling it anymore. We're all soldiers. We're all contributing in whatever way we can. Obviously, different gradations. We're not equal. We're not saying they're all equal. But if they can't, it can't get old and they can't have fatigue. Neither can we. This is not the time. It matters too much. And it all keeps coming back to if we know that we matter and what we do matters and it means something and it makes a difference that gives us the resilience, the perseverance, the strength, it gives us that tenacity to continue to do it. So if you go to work and the people don't get it, then then that should only strengthen you to fight even more, to stand even more proudly, to practice your Yiddish and your Torah even more publicly. Even more publicly. And the people on the news, this is infuriating me. I'm finding it so difficult. But we all need to disconnect a little bit. I'm I'm what Dr. Zimman describes. Refresh, refresh, refresh. Can't get anything done. Moving slower, not being as efficient as I ever am. Not getting at the end of a few hours saying I didn't get anything done. And what did I learn? That I could have checked it once an hour, once every half hour. Did I really have to refresh every 3 seconds? We don't have to refresh every 3 seconds. We don't have to. We have to be aware. We have to care enough to check in to know what's happening. But we also have to regulate how much we're consuming the news. And just because this one had a debate with that one and it went viral doesn't mean you have to watch it. The narrite of crazy people saying stupid things and fake news doesn't mean that you have to watch it and get caught up in it. We should know what's going on because that's going to inspire our but we should be much more judicious and regulating what and how we consume because there's diminishing returns between that which is going to inspire and motivate us and that which is going to rob us of our serenity, tranquility and our ability to be able to focus. So everyone listening, we this war needs all of our efforts. We're all contributing to it in our own way and it matters. So this is not a time for it to grow old or to lean out, but to lean in. And if you're struggling and you're having a hard time, find somebody who's on fire in connecting with Hashem right now and turn them into your personal hot spot. Thank you. Dr. Zimmerman, would you like to add anything? Absolutely. I I actually feel like this could go on for hours just to piggyback on what Roy Goldberg's saying, but but the the ring thing I have to touch on and I'll I'll use it in terms of this thing because while I he was talking about the ring um really you know when we talk about this from an perspective but really at the essential thing talks about you have to place a ring around your feet to identify where am I Goldberg talked about for many people am I the victim Am I one circle out? Am I not? And we tend to give more ding more and it's amazing. I want to address some of the people who for them they feel their ring is very tiny if anything and that so many of the people Amud serves some of the people we're trying to inspire living and on the podcast and other places is find your ring. One of the hardest things is to find your ring. Why? Cuz the ego, the shame, the abuse, the toxicity. What does it say to you? That's her ring. Look what he's doing. Look, he he's speaking virally. He's saying, "Till him. He's on fire. He's a hot spot. What are you already? They're fighter jets. What are you doing? You you're an accountant shleing the garbage. What are you doing?" And even more so, it's saying, "Oh, they're fighting. They're they they're not exhausted in in Gaza or in Iran. You're having a hard time brushing your teeth this morning. Wow. Wow." And people have to realize that the same way we're fighting darkness globally, the biggest battle between light and dark is internally. There's an Iran, there's an Amalik, there's inside each and every one of us. And for some, especially those that we serve that they have an Ayatollah in there, he's a he's a he's a death magnet. It wants to pull them down and say everything that they're doing is meaningless. And for those people, yeah, if you get up and you brush your teeth in the morning, that's as big a rocket. It might be a bigger rocket knocking out an Iran ballistic missile. For you to reach out to an ammoud and say, you know what, I'm that circle. I need a hot spot. I need you not just to be on fire, to be alive, to get out of this. That becomes your nikud and that's your and that's your meaning and purpose. It's very hard for people to do this. However you want to frame that, you want to call it the shame, you want to call it the har, you want to call it negativity, you want to call it the damaged parts, inner child, use whatever muscle you would like, that piece is in each and every one of us. And some for some people that piece screams and the biggest thing and the hardest thing is to identify that ring and say, "Oh, what's my avoid here?" And when you can do that, then you have that meaning and purpose and avoid that's your whole purpose. Then there's no fantasies, no illusion. You don't have to refresh anything because you're aware God has you. And even there instead of being on fire, you can be authentic. You could say, "Hashem, I'm lethargic. Hashem, I'm feeling like my tas are meaningless. Tati Abba, I need you to be the hot spot. I can't. You know what? I'm not feeling your presence. I'm terrified. I don't have the amun that maybe I feel like I should or I want to." Wherever you are, you connect. Then the whole psyche changes. And a lot of us think means I'm not going to be nervous. Says, "No, no, no. Things might you don't no guarantee that everything's going to go smooth. Everything is in Hashem's hands." So if that means if I woke up today with depression, if I woke to today as an addict, if I woke up with an eating disorder, if I woke up totally disenfranchised in my religion, Hashem could have cured that in the middle of the night. He performed a miracle in the hospital. He could have done that for me. If he didn't, that means that's your right now. And the shame is going to say, "No, you brought yourself there. You did bad choices. You did bad things." If he woke you up today, that's your ring. And in that ring, that's all the meaning and purpose. And we know from Kazal that we can't tell, right? If Zatal was in the desert with you and you had a bottle of water, you don't give it to him. Why? Because you don't know whose blood is sweeter. What is that? Come on. He's kineski. I'm barely religious. I'm barely pulling tw and shabbat. Whoever your struggle your ring that we don't know what that is. And like our gold is saying we know that whatever we think down here it's huff we think we're small we're huge. And if you can say that even in the darkness then you defeat darkness internally. And when like re Goldberg keeps saying when we do the work here and that's the deepest work. If you combat darkness internally and you reach out for help and you don't stay levado internally and you go and get whatever help you need and go and be there and go and take a in whatever way you can in as authentic and real a way you can then that lights up upstairs the iron dome from Hashem and that's transformative on every level and just ripples out from each Y to the others ultimately to the entire fire sour. Wow. Thank you so much. I you know I just want to piggyback on something that Rabbi uh and you Dr. Zimmerman brought up and that is something I think we're all struggling with and that is the abundance of information at our fingertips and at the same time while we feel like Dr. said, "I'm in charge. I'm I'm able to take control and oversee every last little detail." And I feel like as if I'm, you know, being at the command center. At the same time, we also know it's very anxietyprovoking for us to have so much information at our our tips. And also, as Goldberg said, not everything is real. Some of this stuff might not be exactly what we should be looking at. It's not bringing us to a place we need to go to. But at the same time, there is this addiction to watching and being constant connected to it. People have said that they struggle with it. Not only that, they also struggle with the fact that they if they don't feel connected to it. Either they don't feel that they're part of what's going on in the war or for that matter, they don't know if they feel like they're the Gavra, like you were saying before, I'm in charge. to let go sometimes as you were saying earlier and to be able to have the pause and to spend some time a little by yourself to reflect and to really internalize really who you are at this moment and be grounded is so so critical at this time I we're at an age of information that's never ever been uh and with the war coming and with people that desire how can we balance this properly and what should we do for our children going forward what should they be exposed to? What should they not be exposed to? I if I ask Dr. Zimmerman to start and please Ray Goldberg to to follow. Okay. So again, I I always feel that being authentic is um the most helpful. So here you had the psychologist and the rabbi both admitting to struggling with this problem. So um the drive is incredibly powerful because in that in that false self I could live in what's called the demian the illusion of if I'm I'm in the know I'm in control I'm this like why is it better for me if I find out what happened in the past oh like I'm the first to know like it's it's unbelievable how these things play into our psyche and give us an illusion of being connected, of being in the know, of being safer, of being controlling the the the inevitable. And it's really hard to let go of that. And most of the time, it's a similar thing of finding your ring. If you keep promising yourself for the last 3 years that you're going to refresh the media, don't do the same thing over again. Right? A week or two ago, I actually had to block a certain additional sites on my phone. Why? On my own. because Diana and I have to admit I cannot just by willpower alone do that and again that's another thing that the dark forces love to say come on you should be stronger you should just be able to do that look you're the person talking to all these people about it I cannot but if it's blocked I'm in a better place so some of it is about blocking some of it is about living leaving it in a box and go out for a walk some of it is owning the honesty you know what If this is my worst addiction in the war, maybe for me that's okay. We have to be real about who we are in terms of the children. Um the thing we know that really gets seared in their brains are these you know sort of violent images or things like that which for an adult um sometimes you've gotten so used to it where we're we're we're almost so desensitized that we forget what that can do to a child who who can't make heads or tails of some of these things. So in that regard in particular, I think we have to be very very cautious. Uh as but the flip side is don't think because you either don't do it around them or because you're you're mad and you have this filter and that thing that your kids are not going to hear about my my my you know my elementary school kids come in here. You would think that they they work for a press corp. Okay. Nano said this and you know Putin and this one and like wow what do you know from Putin? Right. Okay. On the yeshiva bus the is busy with with with with world events. Okay. So, they're getting information. A lot of it is totally confusing. Straight, honest, calm, fishing for information. A fishing technique. Ask them. Hey, what did you hear about that? What? Yeah. What What did they say about Putin? Like, have a real conver. What did you hear on the bus? Ask them. See where they are. See what they thinking about. See how they're conceptualizing this, right? Some kids, you have no idea. You know, when when October 7th first broke out, I sent one of my kids was really really anxious. And usually for anxiety, we don't just reassure, we actually have to confront it. But sometimes when a kid is just lacking information, you have to provide it. And he thinks is down the block. And so literally, I have a I have a globe right up here in my office and I and I took it out and I said to him, "Remember, okay, the rabbis in Florida, you know, when we go to Florida, you know how long that takes on a plane?" Okay. then to California. Okay. Then you know where Israel is, right? Okay. Whoa. Oh, that's where they are, right? Sometimes you have to be very concrete with kids. You have to give them the the information. But you're thinking, of course they know that. Oh, ballistic missile. That's not here. The kid has no clue. He's seeing booms, bombs for him. Ballistic missile sirens, right? He hears sirens. He doesn't know from nothing. You could inadvertently be terrifying to a kid. You take speak very practically. At the same time, we don't pretend. We say yes, there are risks. What do we do? We live a normal life. What does that mean? So in America, okay, we say to Helim exactly, we're trying to get our kids out in a reasonable way. What's reasonable? Jordan, who knows, right? That's an interesting question for the rabbi. A different zoom maybe. Um, fascinating thing, you know, basis going to Jordan to get out on my mind a lot. But okay, we live normal in Israel. What does live normal mean? We go into mammoth, we go into a bomb shelter, we stay close by, but we go out and the kids have to learn from the parents sense. This is not, oh, we're totally safe. We're never safe. Whatever Hashem wants to happen is going to happen. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. What is our job again? Let's go back to what's our tap. Live normal, healthy. Let's follow the guidance of the experts. And ultimately, they're upon him of what's reasonable and then we live that way. Oh, but what? Yeah, things can happen. But when we live reasonably, then we know we're doing ours. And when you transmit it, that way kids can stay regulated. If you're really not, first try to get there or own that, you know, say we're really safe, but I know my anxiety is acting up because we're all going to have that. You could say, you know what, I know what's true, but sometimes my own brain tells me things that are false. And me, too. I get anxious also when we share with kids. And it's not, oh, we're perfect. We could be honest about our feelings, about our struggles. Again, as long as it's not overwhelming and it's real and authentic and at their age level, you can tell kids about everything. But like I said, that's a very different thing than having them access to media and imagery and and and false narratives and and things that are just way beyond their both age and brain capacity to comprehend that. You know, news news is like food. There's a healthy diet and you can overeat and and then get sick and you should eat healthy and not unhealthy. You should know the source of it and not and not coming from a a source that you don't know and and I think, you know, that's what Dr. Zimmerman is saying and and it's 100% true and and and we're being um self-revealing. I I definitely struggle with that. I've been struggling with that. Shabas, you know, Shabas that feels like, you know, like a like a cigarette addict who who's like waiting for Havdala to light from the Havdala candle their cigarette. You're like, you're itching like what's the news? I wonder what's happening. When will we find out what's going to be? I, you know, I'm very blessed. We have custodians. They know for themselves, not for me. They check, they tell me and update what's going on in Israel. But, you know, they're not at my house at night for the suda. You don't know. And and it can be. But if we can get through Shabas, then we can regulate ourselves even during the week as well to to find that balance between I should know, I need to know, it's important to know. I was just reading about who who thought it was critically important to know the news. The news is what's happening in the is how Hashem is speaking to us through the world events. You have to know it. Um I think there are people and and Dr. Zimman is obviously a much greater expert. There are people who are emotionally or mentally fragile for whom following the news at all could be dangerous. They'll absorb too much and they need to disconnect and there's no judgment. That's what's right. That's what's correct. That's appropriate. That's what they should be doing. But then there are other people I've had people say to me since October 7th, I don't follow the news from Israel anymore. It's just too sad. I don't want to be so sad. I don't follow. I don't watch. I don't look and that breaks my heart. Not a person who's doing that to protect themselves with the guidance of an expert because they need to. But how could a Jew I mean I don't know if your mother was sick would you be like tell your siblings don't tell me anymore. It's just too sad. It's just too hard. I don't want to know anymore. How how could it be that this is our mother? It's as our is our mother. How could our brothers and sisters there and what they're going through? How could you not want to know the author of writes something amazing in there? We d every day kabasha for kibbut golios the in gathering of the exiles and of course what that means most fundamentally is one day hopefully soon we'll all be there hashem will bring us of our own valition we hope and if not he's doing it in other ways whether it was Russian Jews and French Jews and Ethiopian Jews and maybe it's coming time American Jews and he's bringing us but he writes there and he's a fascinating personality himself his story a Hungarian viantly anti-sionist who during the Holocaust without a library came to a different conclusion and wrote a whole safer called and he writes in it. He says there's a there's a concept and there's a period of kibbutz golio that precedes even before we physically come together and that's when Jews around the world turn their attention and care about what's happening in Israel and Palestine there in Israel there's a kibbutz golios of our attention there's a kibbutz golios of our hearts there's a kibbutz golios of our thoughts there's a kibbutz gullio that image of those Jews on the one hand it's concerning and we have to regulate and stop hitting refresh. But if you picture in your mind that Jews in Australia and South Africa and Jews in Europe and in America and Jews all over the world, they're all hitting refresh, refresh, refresh. That's all I care about. What happened in the in the sports? What happened in the stock market? What happened in the who cares? All I could hit is refresh on it. That's kibbutz gullus. We're all turning our attention. So we can never and should never get to a place unless a person needs to to protect themselves that I don't want to know. How what do you mean you don't want to know? You it's your mother. This is our family. this is us. But at the same time to regulate that and to do it mindfully and to have a healthy diet and know the source of what we're eating and eat things that are healthy and not overeat and be able to regulate what and when. And if we find ourselves watching the news too much, we can pivot to do something that's much much much more constructive. And this goes back to your last question. Dr. Zimman, you spoke really so beautifully right into my heart about that about that ring and that circle who am serve. And it's so true. through the darkness inside us and how we define success and the contribution getting out of bed making it to the end of the day for some is the biggest they can give to cla it won't make a headline and it won't show up and it won't be on it at a dinner but but we don't know in shamay how enormous enormous that is and the people struggling with amun talking the people have grown fatigue from another there's something else we can do instead of spending more time in the news or catching up like I said on that debate which is a complete waste of time but just clickbait got us to watch and that is take a moment and check in on someone in Israel. Check in. We all have and know countless people, neighbors, friend, family, made aliyah, Israelis that we know, uh people from when we we've spent time there. Just check in. What they all tell us it means to them to get a tech. We think what difference you think if I say I'm thinking about you. I'm worried about you. How are you holding up? It's going to matter. It matters. It matters. And Dr. Zim and I'm sure can share the research about that shows what a text message that one text message what that could do for a person who's going through a crisis. So turn off the news and take out a text right send a text message. Someone this week gave me a beautiful idea and I still need to implement it more in my own life but we have Uber Eatats in America. They have I think it's called Walt Walt in Israel. So you know what somebody who has to be close to their bomb shelter who's home whose kids gone is closed they're managing their ch Let there be a knock on the door and a delivery of muffins and an iced coffee. Let a pizza pie, let a hamburger show up. Let dinner be covered. Someone you know, someone you think of. You can't do it to the world, and you can't do it every day, but you know how good and different you'll feel. You know the contribution you're making. It is an infinitely better use of your time than following the news, refreshing again, again, again, and watching the fake news, fake debate with the people who don't even deserve to have an opinion on this on this matter. So we can all constructively contribute through and but not only it's not only with one of the ways we show is not only talk to him but to take care of his children to take care of his other children. Check in send a text message make a phone call send something a gift that comes a knock on the door out of nowhere that's going to make a real difference for them. Delivery of an iced coffee of a donut of dinner that makes a huge difference. There are things that we can do in in America there are things we can do. I I I don't have the website in front of me and shame on me for that. But Apac has an emergency website they put up. There are elected officials. There are going to be votes that take place. You can send thank yous to those who get it and have put out statements in support and you can write criticisms because they matter. In congressional offices, the assistants count how many letters they get and they give a report to that elected official at the end of every day. This is how many that we got that said stand with Israel. This is how many we got that said they're on their own. It matters. It means something. And if you want to calm yourself, if you want to find more meaning, if you want to make sense of what's going on, then do something. Don't feel so fatalistic. And don't feel you're just a spectator to this unfolding. Do something. Doing something is domining for sure, fundamentally, of course, it's the core of who we are, what we believe, but it's not the only thing. And those who are in that ring or circle, that dominating a sitter's heart, a conversation with Hashem is hard for whatever reasons. There are still so many things that you can do that are not proverating over the news. checking in, sending something, writing a letter to an elected official, getting involved. There are infinitely better uses of our time. And that's also kibot scolios. Kibot scalios are when claw Israel around the world are not self-absorbed. Are not self-absorbed. And I'll end this part. I hope I I won't offend anybody by saying this. Before you post something on your status or social media, ask yourself how someone in Israel who sees it thinks about it. To a degree, we have to live life. I'm not telling you you shouldn't shop for the new shoes or you shouldn't enjoy the dessert when you went out for that special occasion or even if you had a a golf date or the vacation that was already on the calendar that you shouldn't live life. I'm not telling you don't live life, but I'm telling you, do you need to live life and post about it? How how insensitive do you seem to those in Israel living this in real time if they're checking their friend statuses and they say, "Yeah, there's the occasional we're thinking about you." And then there's 10 pictures of the dessert, 15 pictures of the new outfit, 17 pictures of the vacation. Just be very thoughtful and careful with what we're sharing, where we're posting, and and how in thinking through the eyes of somebody who's going through this much more acutely, how it may make them feel. So there are things that we can do to show love, things we can do to avoid creating and causing unintentional pain, and all that will give us greater meaning as we're going through it. Thank you so much. Absolutely beautiful. Uh Dr. Zimmerman, before I wrap up, anything else you'd like to share? Well, I I think I would just piggyback on Rabbi Goldberg saying uh talked about the the research is is overwhelming. um when when Harvard might have been a good university, they had a very long-standing study uh on the greatest resilience factor was having one person in your life who really took notice and cared was the biggest predictor of whether people would overcome adversity even of the worst kind. And so what we're hearing all the time is you have to you're for you first. You're that person. Hashem, you're not in charge of your life. Hashem entrusted you. So, you got to take care of you. But then really, we know from Torah and the psychology research is very clear that you're not created for yourself. We're here to be givers. We're here to be for somebody else. And paradoxically, it's not that I should think less of myself or my circumstance or taking care of myself, but when I focus on others, when I redirect my attention, this is what's remarkable to me is even some of the sickest patients I've ever dealt with, when they find a place where they can do something productive for society, when they can help somebody else, it actually helps them. Because that feeling that I'm just a receiver, I'm just a burden. I'm just a taker is one of the most devastating things to the human psyche. And the opposite, I can contribute. That janitor at NASA or that person putting down abyssly or somebody reaching out and texting somebody in Israel and saying, "Hey, I'm thinking about you." That is you're helping somebody else. And what you're doing is we said that the essential lova is always alone. The second you do that, you take them out of the worst darkness and they're not alone. And paradoxically, you're doing the same thing for you because now you're you're linked up. Your hotspots are connected and now you're sharing. So we're breaking that ultimate darkness internally of that we're all alone and ultimately we all want to matter. Our lives are we're here for a purpose. We're here. So unless we feel that we matter and we matter to others and we start to really really decay psychologically and the opposite when we sense we matter somebody's thinking of us they care that gives them hope and and hope you know in in our mood we we do a lot of uh giving out nlloxxone or what's called narcan for addicts you could you can stop somebody from literally dying of an overdose by giving them that drug and the researchers say that what's much more potent than narcan is hope. The reason people end up really ending their own lives or in these terrible, terrible situations is they've lost hope. They've lost a sense of mission and purpose. They lost a sense of contribution. And when you have no idea what kind of darkness somebody can be in. And when you send a an ice coffee, you send a text, you send a hello, you show something their way, you start that you you reignite that fire that's at the core. That's the the nephesh that never goes out and they can you literally can blow life back into them and that's what we see so much you know forgetting all the psychological modalities and all the techniques and all the things we do at our what is the ultimate ultimate thing that we do is we take them out we give them connection and a sense that they matter and what we've heard here tonight and Rabbi Goldberg spoke so eloquently about is that toughkid right you're not here by mistake you're on. So at every point, whether you're a parent, whether you're a student, whether you're in Israel, you're in the states, go back in that circle, find where you are, start with yourself, then go outwards, and that starts the bonfire. That starts the iron dome. And that is the whole tas. And and again, we often think we get it wrong. We think, "Oh, I got to get out of the suffering. What is this?" We forget. And it's hard for us to say if we're being real, Hashem is putting us in there to bring that out of us. It's not, oh, this happened. So now what should we do? We have responsibility and meaning and purpose offset suffering. Some of the most brilliant psychologists today, that's their motto. I think there's a at least they're not in the victimhood camp, you know, everybody's a victim. That's for a different schmoose. But even the ones who talk about and responsibility, it's like that's the best offset you have to suffer. We don't have an offset to suffering. We don't have an offset to adversity. What is the purpose of any fracture, darkness, adversity in this world is only as a loving father, coach to bring out the kayak so that we are more like so that we earn that sense that you've contributed and when you contribute then like Ra Goldberg said so beautifully, Hashem is waiting with the shea but he the greatest gift he gave us is he handed us the keys and again it's not the fanciest key. It's not always the guys finishing shas and we need all the people learning in D. Sometime it's that person saying hello. Sometimes it's that person kazam not taking their own life. Sometimes it's that person going to a 12step meeting. Sometimes it's that person saying you know what I need you to ignite me or it's the outside. It's a little ding. It's a little it's not little. Those things look little from here but for there's nothing greater. That is the essential tas. And when we're tuned into that and you can go in and out of that by the second if you bring yourself back there that is a place of health balance the nishama is not neurotic the nishama is not sick right anytime it's a good technique anytime you're really struggling I'm bad I'm unworthy on this just place instead my nishama try to say my shama is bad my shama is sick my shama is unworthy my shama is meaningless right try try it just doesn't it just it just doesn't go when you tap back into the truth and you tap back into your place of consciousness and And you're in there's health right there. It's that's a litmus test of how you'll know you're there when you're feeling a sense of strength and serenity and joy. Then you'll know you're both in psychological health and in Hashem's place. And when you're in fracture and anxiety and darkness and this that's a challenge to be ponto just pull yourself whatever you can toward the direction of light and then we light up the world and then Hashem says you're finally ready for the ultimate gul that we should experience in in real time and real revealed form of mamesh. Amen. Thank you both. Really this was for me extremely insightful very inspiring. I just keep thinking today is which we know then McGill where we were given the to take revenge on our enemies. We're going into parl we're ding as Dr. Zman just said to be able to see the revealed the land mode. We should be able to see it with our eyes clearly and we're hoping for that day to come very soon. I can't thank you guys both of you enough. Rabbi Goldberg, Dr. Zimmerman, your words are so poignant. your words were strength of support of finding that ability to have the strength of of post traumatic growth that all of us are really desperate for. I just want to end with on your uh screen and for those who might be listening is Amudin support center. Uh there's a number there which is in in uh the states is 718-9723000. In Israel it's 02374 as well as support ammud.org if anyone is struggling with anything that is related to what's going on in the world in the due to the war. Please don't hesitate to call. we will have somebody to be able to reach out to you and follow up to make sure that you'll get the support that is needed. Again, thank you all. And a reminder, this will be recorded and will be on living. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much for all have everybody should just have a wonderful Shabas. Be well. Thank you. Thank you. Take care.