In Conversation:

and uh he was to Clos it with the with the locker he used to bring him to Amman to the cell to uh but father father my father always told us told me about how he hman all the time act he uh you can see it also in the movie in the in the in the in video Prime in Amazon there's a movie about him how he said that a all the time was like acting like he said that if he if you know don't know that is you would think that he's a a big sadic he was very very polite very uh but said to me used to said you say how some sometime how is so so looking outside that they are so sadik but inside they are so corrupted from their mind how how they act like how they can kill and butcher people without any maybe let's see pardon maybe let's take a look at that clip and we get a little bit of a of a context hearing a little bit from your father and then we'll and and hear a little bit more from inside from it's a it's in Hebrew with English [Music] subtitles [Music] for for a [Music] for foreign spee foree spee okay so again I think what the the command came to him and it sounded like he was a little bit hesitant at the same time he talks about it being the Mitzvah of so the truth is it's interesting is that even that that that that assumption is a fascinating one in in there's a famous discussion that has say quotes from his father that the ra writes that in per per writes that there's no Mitzvah of destroying the Seven Nations of can anymore because came along and mixed up all the different nationalities so we don't know which nation is which and the question that the r was bothered by and that he quoted from his father is so how come he doesn't say the same thing about destroying amalik and that was where he quoted from his father that amalik is not just a genealogy it's not the the the the nation as it's uh you know passed down from generation to generation but it's a certain ideology and he highlighted in specific the the Nazis y as being being aik so that you know opportunity um that he was given you know certainly According to some was was that was that Mito but certainly again even from his own response it seems like you know he wasn't he wasn't jumping at it the same way some of the others were know that that was how we described it to to you as well that the you know that everybody else had a willingness but uh you he was a bit more uh seems like he's a simple Jew as he seen the in the video yeah my father very simple man very humble man and very love everyone every human being which mean he is respecting everyone it doesn't matter even sometimes we have a lot of discussion about the enemies in Israel and he was like he was in the de that we need to respect everyone he said that for example in the Torah said which mean don't kill which mean the Torah didn't said who in general there was we was a lot a lot of conversation on this uh this topic uh yeah I believe I believe because the background that he came from and how he suffer in his life he he appreciate everyone everyone that helping everyone that give him a little bit piece of bread everyone that he was he was so so sensitive till today unfortunately he cannot come cannot flight anymore he's he's in home in in in Isel but he used to come here he used to come here 8 years ago six years ago many many friends in t know him and many friends also took him to his home and then he was speaking about his his life but not anymore he can come but yeah this is this is the man very simple always uh live in a in a in a a little never never hope for many to be rich or something like that he was like a very simple but but but yes he have always everything always everything the that he gave in his life but what um what what effect did you in the terms of the family did did did did you see a change in him after after this happened this it seems like well there was there was a period of times which mean according to the life it changed it changed a lot in his life at the first year of his life he was sick he was the first year after it happened yeah 12 months after this happened he was sick sick he was he couldn't go out from home he was he have a how called sah I don't know what it's called sahit in English disease when you when you have a a yellow yeah like Jo this like join this any anyway so see he he was he really he was uh sick all the time and uh whatever he went out he was afraid my I remember that my mother I was all the time joking about what she didn't want him to go out from the house he used to say she used to say I used to come back running back home because he he was a traumatic from here you get Trauma from him and uh Miracle after 12 months it was he was like nothing happened he was like cure in one day now he was all type of he was all the time didn't know why why it's happened why 12 months and he and he feels so good after that and nothing like nothing happened so many years after that he asked he asked Kabal in in his time he asked him uh what's happened actually why he been cured after 12 months and Raad ask him tell me what's happened with with a maybe I will see what's what's going on and he told me all the story now the story is that uh as as you hear my father didn't want to me that we didn't want to execute it and it's happened to me to him and also he was not execution her he never hanged nobody right so after after they hangman and he was hanging on his on the robe uh he he thought that he that's it he finished his job we need to go home and his Commander said no no no you need to take him out we need to take him to bring we need to he said why me I did I I pushed the button that's it I don't want to do anything else I said no you start you must have finish and uh so he came to the body and he didn't know how to hold it so he said just pull it up that I can take the Rope now my father didn't know that somebody that the the Tang it's all the pressure inside his body it's still there because it's like the Rope it's like it's like a like a I don't know like a top here that that holding all the pressure inside his body so when he's and he pull his body and and his face was in front of his my father all the pressure come up from his mouth and all the blood that according to the to in his in the in the body of am come up on his face and and he do like something like that in his face and he was like shaking he was he was holding his body was shaking and all his body was full of blood and and then he said what to do now what to do now and they said okay just hold it let me just take it out the road and then they p think in a in a in a like a it was like a table with the whe they built a special oven I think right they built a special oven yeah they make a special OV I heard the story that uh but I don't know if it's true I heard my father told me story then it doesn't matter if it's true yeah but no my father told me that the guy that make the the oven he actually guy that help the nais like a Jew to build to build a oven in in in aitz really and he to build it to uh to get revenge of that and he built that it's still there by the way the oven is still there in in Ram R and uh my story my father told me because they make some uh some wheel with the bed but it was not just a wheel in the center it was not four wheels it was like two wheels in the center and because he was shaking all the time the body of Amman would fell a few times and need to to put it back again till it get to the oven pull it inside and and then he was so so sick and and uh and the commander said okay Shalom you look so sick you can go home and then when we came home when my my mother saw him still with the blood where you been what what's happened to you said that he was going what yeah what the main thing what's happened is the night because nobody know what is the what is the actually the day and the the time will be the execution so it was a night in in in in so me and my my parents was like walking in the street I was a kid I was a baby and uh suddenly there there was a car of of policemen stopped and took my father immediately and uh I said oh who whoa why you taking me I said you need to go the execution is now I said yeah but I need to tell my my my wife I said no no nobody need to know about it I said he told me look if I want to tell my wife now where I'm going everybody will know what's going on and and and he went to my my mother he said okay I'm going to work it's some urgent and return it back and when we return back she saw all the blood and said what's going on what's happened I said you will hear that in the news and then uh that's what's happened after that but there he is yes and then he was sick he was sick like I told one year and after rfad heard story he said now I understand according to the cabala why you was sick 12 months because you get the blood of the neish of and blood of was was actually him all the time that's according to the cabala and he said after 12 months 12 month that's it it's it's he get to his his punishment you never saw him anymore they never bother him anymore now who knows once he settled deeply in geham so then it didn't have to bother your father anymore yeah yeah well anyway this is this is the story but uh since that it changed my father because my father well when he grew up he was like a okay he has in per when he grew up in y when he came to the C per tried to put him in in the K of sh which mean uh very secular place he ran away from there and then he grew up up in anyway uh somehow he he lost lost lost contact with the with the religion after that of of course we always used to go to shabbat to the to the but he was a little bit out of De but after akman uh he returned back he started toaz and and uh after he uh retirement he re tired then he learned how to to be a sh and then he was in a he was learning every day and it changed him but during the life it's always in in the in shabat in always used to talk about this used to tell us he used to tell never never kill nobody because he was so so traumatic even the give it to other you to to other don't do nothing about it that's quite an amazing you know irony SL Revenge that the the death ofman should bring somebody even closer to Torah you know it's an extra an extra stuck that not only is he out of the world but now there's somebody who's got a closer connection and a beautiful you know family as well closer connection to to Torah that's that's pretty remarkable but the truth is that again most people probably I don't know how many people know this part was that his story of his involvement in in AR Israel really didn't end with uh with with withman right after after he was at the prison in ramla there was another period of time and he really had a major impact on another very very important city in maybe you can tell actually actually the uh the settlement the first settlement in Israel was in Kon and uh my father my father have a very big part of uh of solution from in the first time if you know all the history in the Salomon start Inon it started with leing and baldman and a lot of people that uh many people here tin know them and it's start in Malone Park in hotel Park in in Kon by the way Malone Park was belonged to kawasa the family kaasa now kaasa it's a very terrorist uh very hamula in in very very danger and they they stayed there in PES if everybody know the history and after that they didn't want to go out and uh the government start to to see what the solution can be and my father used to tell me that in those time in the me the the the building of a mshell of the M Inon when they was controlling go area my father was there h h Deputy of the of the director G in a hell what is say and my father told me wait I have a solution where to put them and they said where you think I said we have here the uh how you call the the horse horse uh uh settles of of of the king Jordan Hussein King Hussein have like a six six big uh places for the for his soures I will take this I will make St stable sta yeah I will make them uh room for three families from each one I will take few uh few prisoners there they will build that and uh they will make it for them that's what's happened they move everyone there and this was the first settlement Inon after that when they start to build K came to my father said look you started with us you you need to come with us again so we moved we moved to from to Kon I was 11 or 12 years old when we came toon to the first the first uh I remember myself in the in the school with uh with three more kids in the class there was no there was no school there was like every every year we were building a mix of people that came from fifth grade sixth grade all together seventh grade right this was a different uh time yeah it was before uh 73 before the war it was after the sixth day war right and I remember that my father was always involved in this thing there's a lot of stuff that he that is involved that it still cannot be tell because it still have a law of security but uh yes there's uh not just this he was I don't know if every if people were going to Israel used to go to theik right okay so there is a right a lot of women go there to get some for for marriage so this place was abandoned there was no no even no even way to get to this uh this grave and my my uncle and my father went there and my father brought without know the government he took some prisoner from from Kon he brought them there they built a place they make everything and and they make even a way to to people can go there and make the prey there W and they put the sign but at the end they they did without permission so they took their sign from there and just put another another name there but they actually they built this place and uh now when I'm going there and I try to tell people you know this place was built by no no way this is the authorities here this different kadisha whatever but they he used to do this thing he used to do with his his his uncle a lot of stuff in there he used to go all the places try to fix try to build that's what my father it's uh it's still now he's sick unfortunately and but is still alive I remember you once telling me about his his trip to the to the Holocaust Museum in in Washington that story well the first thing the first trip to United States my father didn't want to go for marur to to to convince him to return back to go out from ET he used to say I was suffering so much to get to etur what do you want me to go back to to places out of that and said yeah but just to come to your to your to your your son to see my your son so okay he came the first time he came I used to live in Queens and I decided to that we going to wash Wasington to make a trip to Washington and we went to the Holocaust Museum so uh in the Holocaust Museum there was a big line there were a lot of people I don't know there was like groups coming and and I told to my father okay wait a minute I would go inside and try to to arrange something so I get to the person that was in charge and said look my father is the guy that hang there's a way that we can uh get a a VIP and he would look at me and said oh come on I never see any any excuse like that and I hear a lot of people that getting excuses but this excuse I never heard said no no I'm really one and I called my father and my father used to you know he get from the from the um the from the from government he gave her like a they give him like a certificate you still have it he always used to take it in his in his pocket certificate that the that he's hang he make the execution you never know when that yeah well I show and he show him this and and he was like he was a wow okay of course of course he give to all my family VIP and we get inside and I said you know so I thought there's too many people let's stay in the cafeteria for a few few minutes I don't know half an hour let the people come in because it was too crowded and I said okay we went to a cafeteria and after 20 25 minutes it was two girls two two young that came to the cafeteria said are you are you shom n I said yes I'm here I said you know we looking at you after you all the museum we couldn't find you so what's going on said they wanted to make an interview with him they want to uh to put a video I think there's a a video they promis they put a video there in Holocaust Museum I don't know what's happened i' never been there since there but yes and then after that they came to us the uh the BBC and and German uh uh TV I don't remember what the channel and then he wanted to come to ER to to to uh to film him film him and he did they they did they came and I told the rabbi that when they came to R I was there and uh and my father said okay I will I will agree that you make my video but with my my one condition that I will tell where where to to make the film where to make the uh to make the video I said okay where you want it here in the in the in the living room where you want no no no he said no you come to me with me come all your equipment with me and he took them to his col col and he was uh you know my father was moving slowly like he was putting the chair close to own KES and bring a stander put it in front of him and said okay now you can now you can you can you can start to film to ask me whatever you want that's amazing and they ask him and the first question they asked him okay can you tell us why you wanted to be here I said I want to show all the nation in Germany that I'm is so high and not just high high according to the love of the Torah and this was I remember it was like a tears in my eyes when I hear him because it was like so exciting to that he wanted he said okay if they want to if they German and they want to to make a movie let's give him a good place that uh that everyone there will will see that so I think I think that speaks volumes of of your father and his appreciation for the the role that he played and it wasn't just a job but it was a a religious mandate and he understood the significance uh the significance I think that he understood it during the year and the time when they asked him to do the job he was young he was like what 26 years old he was young you know was it's he was not knowing about during the year learning about what's happened because he never knew nothing about not Germany and not Amman and not before before he started studying about Amman once he had the job to understand yeah when when they not the his Commander bring him videos and stuff and try to tell him what wasman what then when he learned he was actually Afraid from him he Afraid from the the evil that come up from him and this is this that's what I think what's happened to him that's how he was sick it was actually a fright from from from the from the image of this being being with the Russia marusa like that and what what impact have because if somebody asked actually in the chat asked about if there were any conversations that with that he did he ever talk about any of that well I can tell you something he said it's also in the movie he said look he knew only Hebrew and yite and knew only German and Spanish or maybe English and actually canot make conversation but they understand each other very well so which mean he mentioned that he always said Thank You gracias which mean Spanish even in the jail he used to speak Spanish he didn't speak German interesting he speak Spanish and uh and this he remember he said my father was laughing he said maybe he know that I'm a spar that's how spoke with me Spanish of course it's nothing to do with that but they you got go you gota go back lot of centuries yeah yeah that I'm not sure that Ian uh was holding in uh in those de details but um yeah no it's a fascinating story again for for those who are interested there is this documentary on um it's on Amazon Prime it's called hatan I think it's called the hangman I watched it the other night with my uh with my wife mixed reviews your father did well I'm not sure how well the uh the theme that they tried to put together of uh the together with the execution I'm not sure that you would necessarily I mean you can comment if You' like if you agree yeah the connection was bad the connection was bad I mean I think you I think You' told me that your family were sh this wasn't this wasn't out of nowhere that he no no yeah yeah yeah for sure my father wants me also to be sh but I know I been with him all the time but I there's no fence there's no fence between our yards if you want to do you know you know feel free well I know how to space in our backyards yeah you don't tell nobody I don't know I don't know what the ten ordinances are but we could certainly uh there's certainly enough room can ask Joey can push it through the the planning board for us I'm sure but um I think uh again I don't know if you have any other you know closing sponsor stories you want to share but I I do think it's an amazing story not just historically but you know uh the context of of a Mal that we were talking about there's that idea that we we read about those words that always you know I pay attention to every year right you know we all have opportunities that come our way and it's what we do with those opportunities and the fact that we never know there's a there's a word I always tells over when we say write Us in the book of Merit what does that mean we already said we said everything what's so from used to say that are the opportunities that hasem gives us to do meaning we sometimes we don't have sometimes we don't have chances to do you know you can't unless you find the lost object determines that you're gonna have that chance determines that for so we never know what do we ask give us opportunity to serve you give us special opportunities and it sounds like your father took those opportunities at different points in his life with um with I and just use them and I think that's really uh an inspiration something that all of us can uh can walk away with so he made sure that the wouldn't come can be well known and it was a story I think right it was it was hidden for a long time they didn't publicize they didn't want retribution they didn't want people to know was 30 years before the Israeli government before they before the Israeli government even uh publicized any part of the story is that correct I think that's a lot background noise is that is that accurate I think it was about 30 years before anybody even knew yes yes yeah 32 years 32 years so again that's the family obviously knew during that time some of them some of them it's 52 or 55 some of them but uh most of the thing it's 322 oh it was like a statute of limit similar that they had a certain statute that governed when when the information could be public yeah well you mention you mentioned I tell you a small story that's happened one time in in when I was with my father in the house somebody called in the phone and said g I speak with M and my father said there's no Mori here I'm sorry there's a wrong number and it's a true story and and uh and he hang it and then again somebody ringing said there's M there I said no there's no M here there's here you you you get the wrong of this and again four times and he said look what is the number that you darling he told me the number he said this number this is my number but this is no Mor here said but but you are the mor I said they say what what you mean are you sh you are the gig of M I said what are you talking about gig I said you you you were sitting on the and because my my father they knew the story in Yemen that when he was a orphan outside in the in the street he used to sit in the in the sh called b b Babel M it's a it's a it's it's a place in s in the in the the capital of Yemen you know capital of Yemen was around like a around like like and and there was a a big gate and he used to sit in the gate like begging for food or something like that and he you were sitting on the sh of the Mel and and and you're the m and that's how you you you killed the amalak after that they so what are you talking about this is they make him you know sometimes people in Israel making they getting off of the contacts and and try to make but this was a you you told me but it was a story it was like anecdota like I said I remember they call him okay there maybe there's something to it who knows you know I don't know that that took out that took out the H of a different generation but after that they used to call my father to give BR in hospital and stuff like that and and and at the end and he helped he helped like a three or four people and then he stopped he said look he become like a V everybody that call him said I'm sorry I'm I'm not a Helper and if it's happened it's happen in I don't know why but it's not me and then he stopped that but he used to call him all the time because his story you know people listen if you ever fantasize right I the opportunity had the opportunity to meet your father he's a simple a simple a Jew as they come I think that much the movie does give over well that he's just a a simple Simple Man Simple Man Who took advantage of the opportunities that he was that he was given I want to thank it's amazing how to see how who who who is actually the man that hang from where he coming and where you know like the the humble beginnings connection it's amazing how how God make they specifically they specifically wanted it to be uh a non askanazi is that correct they didn't want it to look like yes they don't want nobody to guard the lottery is to to to push the bottom it doesn't matter but the guard there was a time there was a there was a story that one night one of the uh guards actually came from aswi he has he has a he has a number on his arm that he he was a Survivor from aitz and he asked my father if if they can change now my father didn't know any any reason why not he said okay we can change this about tonight and uh this guy I don't remember his name my father mentioned his name I don't remember his name he came to Amman and said you see he saw him show him the number say I used to be under you now you're under me and then Amman start to to get crazy was shouting and shouting and then all the all the people came there and my father almost loses job because they said I didn't know what you want he wanted to to replace I didn't know okay go there I he didn't care what to be to be inside to be outside but yes that was the reason because they don't want to to they don't want to look like Revenge they wanted to make sure yeah that's right show him the number that you can he can end differently you know somebody can kill him or right but also especially after they kidnapped him from Argentina and some of the world was was very sensitive very sensitive so they were really trying to make everything on the up and up but either way okay we really really appreciate your time we appreciate everybody joining us as well well I think there's just you know again the the the historical aspect and the the mustard aspect of really living our lives in such a way that uh you know just like your father be simple Jews at the same time take advantage of whatever opportunities hm gives us to be and to further God's will in this world so again thank you boas and Sh should give your father strength as well and again want to thank R Paro for his help and thank you all for joining have a week problem thank you Rabbi z a really gripping conversation and exchange um also want to thank Rabbi Zs really was a uh um among the spearheads of uh of this this concept Mr Linsky is on the call his idea RAB Z RAB um came together I want to encourage everyone also to tune in next week RAB Ari lioz of the Bas knesset of North Woodmere it's going to be in conversation with Samara kleene who is a convert who discovered her biological sister through genetic testing should be a gripping tail um old episodes are posted on UT torah.org you can find them there if anyone missed in the meantime have a