Homeopathic Medicine in Halacha - Rav J David Bleich

Some of the things I'm sure I've spoken about in the past in one way or another, but basically what I wanted to talk about today is alternative forms of medicine, uh, and other things. For purposes of the title, I would call it because that sounds more like it's X-rated. uh complimentary medicine is more pariff and has less of a problem. Besides when I was young it was all called home heopathy and there were heopaths who practice all these things although I realized very well that now it's restricted to some kind of hocus pocus that involves diluting things that are absolutely worthless and or at least they're diluted to the point where becomes absolutely worthless uh and is supposed to heal you. Now um the there are a number of books sorry for Hebrew English that have been written with regard to alternative forms of medicine and they focus primarily on whether there incantations involved other things that may involve a way I'm really not terribly interested in all of that for very simple reason Uh all of is nonsense but not all nonsense is of uh theor tells us that the not really anyway. They don't understand what it's all about. Uh my impression is and I may be wrong. I certainly don't know everything that's going on that in in in this extra halic field and extra medical field. Uh my impression is that the the people who are doing those things basically have no idea that it was ever associated with theora and don't associate with themselves. Certainly uh meditation is not aora. You can meditate on all you like. A moment of silence in the public school is not prayer. You can do whatever you like in that moment of silence. His buddus is meditation. And nobody ever had problems with his spidus. The exercises that I understand are used practiced by some are exercises good, bad or indifferent. Exercise they tell me is good for you. In general, the gamar tells us a principle that if it works, it's not more or less how I would translate it. Uh I'm not now going to enter into a definition of what is the darker and what is a visor. I don't think that's really the issue. Although I'm quite sure there must be idoltors out there who practice this or the practitioners who are idolattors certainly the ones who are involved with incantations and uh uh have no idea what they're saying maybe. I'm not interested. I'm more interested in uh other things. I'm also not interested in things like acqucture or things like quinine to cure malaria. Quinine was a folk remedy. The Indians were using it for whatever. And then the laboratories, the doctors, they got hold of it and they did their experiments and they showed that they can cure malaria. That's a refu once upon a time was folk medicine. Doesn't make any difference. A lot of what is accepted medical therapy was once upon a time folk medicine. Uh that's as far as something like that is concerned. Acupuncture is complimentary medicine. That's why I said I don't want to use that word because there's nothing wrong with acupuncture and I know that acupuncture is acceptable in hala because blue cross pays for it. Insurance companies don't pay for nonsense. They will not pay for uh meditation. They won't pay for yoga and they won't pay who knows what. Acupuncture is proven, tried, tested precisely how it works. I don't think anybody knows. I certainly don't have to don't know. And I understand that they're different sheet in acupuncture and they all work act perfectly well. And as long as you're not an oriental, you have one sheet and you disparage all the others. So what difference does it make? that is now that that form of complimentary medicine is now in the form of a rafu vaduka the point that I want to make and that's the major point here is and I'm not sure that I think that would agree but Romesha I am putting a little bit a little bit I'm putting words into his mouth it seems to me that what is called what I call himopathy the stuff that we know doesn't work only there are people out there who believe it works I think that not only is innocuous but is absolutely also and I'll try to show you that by trying to analyze the principle of rapa and precisely what it is. [snorts] Now all you take out the day they ask the questions but the questions of and I don't need the gamor of to tell me is so why suddenly a new limood for there are at least four maybe five different ways of resolving that problem the first I'm sure I must have mentioned here the Ezra who takes the puk in context is in the paraz you've committed the battery and nowishim and one of them is rape yapp says it's only a mass when you assault somebody and you cause a wound of one kind or another so you go to somebody to stop the blood from flowing or if you broke a hand or a foot. So you set the hand to the foot. Uh usually it's not a baka spin and if there's internal bleeding I don't think that they knew how to do anything about internal bleeding in the days when we have the dr. So says it's only but internal wounds or internal maladies of one kind or another. I probably mentioned that that is the carite heresy that they think faith healing is uh the only way you can go. not allowed to practice medicine because if the roy who in the world is looking for a second opinion now that's all very nice except the tbat said on that ebenezra parian god he wasn't great and indeed I think I pointed out to you it's not the vat but we defined for purposes of chabas Anything inside the teeth outside the teeth is not but any in the in in the throat in the the cavity whatever it is there all of that is considered and by definition it's statutory pikvish you don't even have to go ask the doctor whether you're endangered or not so you see that the makaspanim is the classic example for purpose of what's called not even Ezra is quoted by others in one way or another. Uh but I I that's that's clearly the way he understood verapp you needed your juice for makas but not for makaspanim and I presume the makaspanim you're not allowed to uh [snorts] to attempt to cure for reasons that I will make a little bit more explicit in a moment the uh there is a reor which is quoted the bales and others whom maintains the rape rapes only so that the rafe can get compensation for practicing the alien arts. He's allowed to get not but whatever it is is being paid for something or other and otherwise it would be a mitzvah you not take can't take money for it lifeguard volunteer lifeguard who jumps in and takes somebody out of the ocean is not entitled for scar for this uh it's a mitzvah he's supposed to be doing these things but uh but the refe has the right to take at least whatever it is that permits him and for that I need Mat of how do I know he's allowed to do that? Again, that's is includes it's included in the in the in the parish the person who has committed the this tort and has accosted somebody. He's assaulted. So he has to pay the shoes because now rape he's the victim is not the rafe. So the rapi rape means go hire yourself a ree and the tort mazik he is going to be liable for the expenses and then comes the shak who is [snorts] quoting earlier people and let me tell you first he says the [snorts] sha says that the rafe is supposed >> where's the shock is called an olive it's right at the beginning uh because it's the same what are you telling me? What's the point of all of this? So the answers why do I need all of this for maybe I'll make a mistake. Doctors make errors and know their their mistakes can cost the person's life. So what do I need this for? Who needs it? I'll run away. I won't practice medicine and I won't be aig. So the poster is telling you're not allowed to run away. You've got to assume the risk. The big risk here. The big risk is that you'll do something that you shouldn't be doing or you will do it inadvertently. And the result is that instead of curing patients, you will actually be killing patients. >> [snorts] >> Now just and as an aside uh it's has nothing I think to what I'm talking about today but Sartin the history of medicine he wrote this book by now it's at least a hundred years if not a little bit more he says that in his day if people went to a doctor they were taking their lives in their hands because doctors usually did more harm than good so you'd be on statist I don't know if he did statistics [laughter] he certainly wasn't uh going back in history for the statistics ics, but he in effect is saying you're probably better off not going to the doctor. If you ever had American history, do they still teach you in American history? I don't know. George Washington died, not of natural causes. He was sick, but his doctors killed him. He bled to death. They were bloodletting. They thought it was rafu. Sure, our closest was still a rafu. It's a way to decrease blood pressure at least temporarily. I'm not advocating it because I'm not a rea and no I don't think it has a value but forget it that's not our problem it's not standard medicine not used for standard mocklas and it's esoteric for anything that I could possibly do but it was standard therapy once upon a time and it says the um says to taz that the um what I sorry I was what What was I talking about? >> Malitz. Yes. The doctor shouldn't say uh that I'm more likely to kill somebody or I am likely to kill somebody or it's a possibility and what do I have to be a herd before she should be shaking for uh so therefore you need a new pos. You got to accept the risk. Um it's a little bit strange to me. I'm not interested right now. But as far as the draw is concerned, you've got a post that says mali la ruse laapos. It sound as if this ruse is here for purposes of rapos and he needs ruse for this. Even if ruse means something else, as I'll tell you in a moment, it sounds as if you're giving the rafe a power they didn't have before, not a hazore. Now warning him, don't you dare think you can get away with not having because you're kind of sad and belts as they call it in Yiddish. You you don't want to accept risk. Sometimes you have to risk something from it. You even have to risk your from its as it were this is a bish whatever it is but he person doesn't want an either. It doesn't sound to me as if that's what the posting is saying, but I'm I'm not really interested. Maybe the sha felt it necessary to caution the reaim who didn't want to practice medicine and that's why he included it. I have difficulty even accepting it as one of the uh ways of explaining the pik. Uh and then you have uh uh others who tell us that machining refuses that even if the first ra was nikshall you can go to a second. I think that yeah the first the first rea is supposed to do what he wanted whatever reason and but if you went to one you shouldn't go to another. So the post are telling me if you can go to one doctor, you can go to the second for a second opinion. Uh you know it's a tantamount to a second opinion. You didn't like the first one or you want to confirm the first one. So you've got now refuse for the second opinion. And then we come to um RashiSis and the Rashb in Bovakama. And this I'm certain I must have said once upon a time when we spoke about natural law. The word does not mean permission. You don't need permission to this. What you need is something else. You need authority like otherwise it would be and now I understand otherwise you're near zeras you're interfering in the leom's world he's issuing zeras edicts and you're coming along trying to thwart him in one way or another or to put it in the illusion of other is What's going on here? The revelation afflicts and you have the to try to reverse the affliction. You want a cube or can't do such things. So you have manitus laapos. And now in the words of the Ramban ruse, this rishuse is telling you doesn't mean permission. You have no right not to go to the and he has no right not to practice medicine. He has authority is the lotion of the Ramban. Once it's reduced, the mitzvah becomes uh once it's once it's once it's reduced, it becomes incorporated in the general mitzvah of pures. This is also the lion of the mahabar. Uh the mahabar is definitely following the ram and the ramban is really following uh the same stasis and the rashb. I know he came before the but it's all the same principle in the is that's that's paraphrasing the the Raman. It's you know very clear that it's paraphrasing the Ramban. Now uh and the the uh the sha the taz you know quotes it more or less and this is what I think is the governing shita as far as concern proof the uses all of that and he's passing it that way. Now I think I probably said once upon a time that we have a mission which tells us all about and we have three examples of in the Mishna. We have Roso we have list and we have a is no great to me. He's if you don't know how to swim, what are you doing in the water? And of course, we got to help you. Uh even if you're committing suicide, everybody except thinks I have to I have to save your life. So, you're so foolish as to go swimming and not know how to how to go swim. So, I have to save your life. uh and I'm not interested now in in philosophy and whether it can happen to you if you don't deserve it. It's only because you deserve it. Either way, and you're not forced to do anything. The murderer is not forced to murder. Otherwise, you would say, "I wasn't a moral agent. I didn't have free will. Not true. You had you could have not done it. So this isn't being the may letting him do it. Talk about full providence some other time. But the not you're not uh the I'm not going to spend time talking about Burton's ass, but it seems to me that most would agree that is is is all kinds of bad things. But that animals have something like free will only we call intuition of one kind or another. Instinct instincts to do all kinds of things. That's, you know, Burden was the medieval philosopher who proved that he had free will because otherwise if you take a a uh a cow or a horse and put him in a barn and the hay on both sides is equidistant, he should die of starvation. Why should he go to one side rather than the other side, there must be something that prompts him to do that. So he has to be able to process all of this and he's exercising free will. Either way, the Mishna is not involved with anything that is same. And now if you have a gammorra that talks about where do you have rashes it's only because it's only the rafe who is being gazeras hamelik. [snorts] So uh and this is again I don't know if I ever quoted it. It's available in um uh in the English little volume Judaism and healing. uh I quote it's a med I know it from states from medium but it comes from other med uh and that's bish they were walking and a man comes to them and he was sick and he I don't know what he wanted I suspect he wanted a bra from them but they you know they they look at him and he they have over your shoulder He tells him he's got a spade over his shoulder, a farm implement. And they ask him, "What is your what is your job?" And he says, "I'm a farmer." And what do you use a spade for? To dig the earth. And you know, they it's a it's a beautiful med. And it's more poetic, more eloquent than I'm making it. But the uh they in effect tell him that who gave you refuse to go dig up the farm, the field, and plant. the same one who told you to go d up the field and plant whatever tells you to go to the doctor and take whatever he prescribes for you. uh which sounds to me uh I'll come to seis in a moment but it sounds that as if the they were telling him that you you're an amoras you're a farmer you're a peasant you think it's being zeros that's where your family does for faith healing what do you want the prayer what's going on here this told you to go to a doctor he told you which I think I told you is not only a but a mil gives Yeshua certainly makes man autis and there is no problem of uh uh natural law because gave you permission. If you look at he tells you the hashk also comes along the uh the gamorra and tells me for medicine too or the right face of medicine. I was mi I was gazer and now you can help me you can assist me by doing what I told you to do and you can help cure. So uh it's clear to me that otherwise it's one of the examples that I give when I talk about uh natural law and Judaism this is a case in which we reject natural law but there's no great kittish because uh all the natural law philosophers rejected with regard to medicine also and I'm not interested why but it's clear that theis and the rash are telling me that without rape rape it would be also on what basis it it would be only because and you shouldn't be messing around with things that the is doing in his world unless you have his permission to do so and this constitutes its permission. Now that's that's kind of the background. Uh these the interesting part starts with a chuva negrosia which I'm sure I mentioned in passing when we were talking about something else. Uh the militia has all chu about uh using IV on Yum Kipper instead of eating. uh and uh he he has all he also thinks that you can't insert an IV without the it's not none of that is interesting from my point of view what he is interested is only one little point and he begins with the PK He says for you know there's a double here saying that if it hadn't say I would say rape sure we're talking about a makab deto go get yourself a bandage of one kind or another whatever the doctor can That is permissible. That's a lot of permissible. It's a reboot rap. The rape is a pimbra didn't know that [snorts] is stuck with the first rape. He didn't realize is a beyond that. Now comes his Of course, etc. Uh but this is that I am allowed to go find myself. He gave me to intervene. Without his intervene, I couldn't do any of this. He repeats it again. He is being used. Whatever happened to you happened to you because the melik did this. You have some kind of physiological disease. It only comes from the Maybe the only way I can be. Using an IV is not to correct some [snorts] malady. You weren't given the right to use Rafu for anything except a malady. Now, note what he's saying. It's a little bit strange, but remember, he's addressing the problem of an IV. He's saying you can't use medicines recreationally. You can't use it in order to fast on your kiver. You can you is marijuana a medicine? Oh, I don't have a new for marijuana. Of course, marijuana is a medicine. It's done for cancer patients to combat nausea. And now, if you use marijuana recreationally for you, you're being safe. You're not allowed to use it for anything except for medicine. Marijuana, why is it made why does put it in the bri? You put in the bri to, you know, cure nausea and you're going using it recreationally. You have no it's not help. And maybe you could use it recreation. I don't know. But the other things you can use for enjoyment neut. But I have no evidence that this was given to you for enjoyment. They have other the contrary. But I'm sure that if you would ask pointed to this Jew and say does it apply to marijuana? Of course it applies to marijuana. Marijuana you use for nausea. You can't use this for pleasure. You want to get a high. That's not what's there for. Uh use alcohol for a high. That's what alcohol was made for. This wasn't made for a high. Okay. But then he says that it's and then he has a second shot. The second shot is I I won't it's it's it's stuck. [snorts] It's it's very it's really sophisticated not really terribly important for our purposes. He says maybe you're not being success because you have permission. Of course, you have to choose to be such a samel. But maybe this was Samlik in the first place. Samlik was to get sick and to go to a doctor and it costs you money. It takes time and there's pain talik and he thinks that that's what it is. Then I could use it that he didn't ask for other things. uh he could use rafu is for recreationally you use it not to fast and he says even the first is am I allowed to be because he told me to or was this I don't think it's a difference I think it's basically nomenclature and you can bring rias one way or another from it'll take us far a field I'm really not interested in that I consider two sides of the same coin you want to express it one way express another way even's napkamina I think has nothing to do with the two if he just made it until I cure it but he said to cure it in a certain way he says and it means I'll show you in a moment I have to go la he didn't tell me to do it any other way except a rafe now he is concerned with regard to using rafua for non-therrapeutic purposes and for that he says exactly says after and not I I think it's wrongct the error in a moment but the basic point that he's making refu for non-therrapeutic purposes may be absolutely also that's why I gave the example of marijuana however I do not think that IV has anything to do with what he's talking about not everything that a doctor does is medicine and not everything that requires a license to practice medicine is medicine. Don't try to insert an IV in your hand. You'll mess it up. I guarantee you. You've got to have some kind of skill to do it. But an IV the what come I'm talking about a person who's taking this only because he's too stingy to buy a loaf of bread or it's John Kipper and he can't eat but he wants to save himself the time and the trouble. So he punches himself in the arm and he inserts an IV and he lets the saline solution drip in and he puts a little sugar water into it also and he's getting whatever he's getting and he doesn't have to eat. Uh that's not a raffle. It's called meals on wheels. He's g it's [clears throat] taking in an artificial way. I agree with that. Who says I have to eat normally? I don't think I have to eat normally. If I don't want to eat normally, I don't think it's necessary. I'll give you an example. I'm sure if you went to Reisha and you said there's no such thing as anal feeding. I've heard tale that's used when prisoners want to go on a uh starvation diet or they want to starve themselves to death. So, they force feed. There are all kinds of ways of force feeding. You can tie him down and stick him with an IV or you can do it anally and it works. They tell me you can you can you you can force him to eat that way. And what if the person wanted to do it himself? Uh uh people use it again. I I don't know if I don't find anybody asked for their suppositories, caffeine suppositories to use during a toness. So you shouldn't get headaches if you're a caffeine addict. uh coffee. I don't know what coffee is, but I presume that you're allowed to drink coffee and that it's there for a reason. And it's a kind of an oel for one purpose or another and it's there to be eaten. Uh and now look what you're doing. You turned it into suppository. A suppository is a medicine. You can't use medicines other than fru. Why are you taking a suppository for on your giver so that you won't have headaches? you're if you have headaches have headaches and if she'll do something else she'll drink coffee when they don't you don't use the the medicines for something which isn't a rafu and this isn't the derek of the rafu altogether I'll call back that in a moment it's certainly not the derk rafu might just say that suppository is a rafu and maybe if it is rafu it's uh even if it's rafu I my point is and maybe Roberu wouldn't say this but I think that the converse what Misha says is absolutely true he doesn't know whether I can use a rafua for a non-therrapeutic purpose but I do know that I can't use something which isn't a rafua for a therapeutic purpose that is la the what is the doctor allowed to do? He's allowed to practice rafu. What's rafua? Look at the medical book. You'll find out what's rafua. You know the ram defines rafu. We've already spoken about that I think a little bit. whatever I know is therapeutic because I did experiments and I figured it out or I know the properties of whatever this is and I know that it should work even if I never saw it work before but if I'm a scientist I know enough about biology and chemistry I'm allowed to do it because I figured out it probably will work that's what surfu is some something which I cannot explain and for which I do not think there's either or deductive reasoning I'm not allowed to use that's called and please don't ask about sigulas because the Rambam goes out of his way to say that sigulas work alva but their powers are koo medicines are strong they work sigulas you know they work sometimes work don't times when they do work it's pure teva nothing else ra so you can go out for the know it's got it's working there and that's that's just he talks about the [clears throat] difference between a a what he calls what's and what is totally and completely. So if I'm right I'm taking I'm flipping it upside down. He's saying I can't use uh uh I can't use refu for anything but raffua which may apply to marijuana maybe not. We'll worry about that some other time. And I'm saying that when you're doing rafua you can only do what is derfua. What isn't derfua turns out to be absolutely oser. Uh it's user on the basis of natural law. The ter was not there. refu to a rafe and wasn't refu wasn't it for wasn't mad this for anything else now there are a lot of napkin I gave you my napkamine my first napkamina is an anal suppository h to me it's just another form of delivering caffeine it's not a you don't need a prescription for it if you need a prescription for it so what it's an but certainly not user because it's not intended as a fu in the first place. And then there's something else that rema difficulty with. He has difficulty with prophylactic medicine is yeah >> so taking a suppository of caffeine would be >> it may be the sermonium giver. >> It may or may not be >> I think it's probably raffonium giver. Uh it's it's also some money only I guess hash we don't use suppositories on shabas kipper because of hashuras nearing anal hairs trying to get pulled off but not because it's a suppository >> so it would be mutther if it was outside of that other problem as medicine it's not >> yeah as medicine there's no problem with I have no problem with taking suppository uh uh you know if you're a caffeine addict except for the other problems are involved But not because it's might have had problems. I don't see the problem altogether. I'm just eating even less than who says I'm not allowed to eat. I don't see as a problem altogether. [snorts] Now um uh he in this is the where's the second one in um the there's the second ch and this is the first one was dalid was gimmel uh and this one is daled sim kuf o gimmel in sim kuf he says he was is he says that's the one we just read. You're not allowed to use medicine other than for to take medicine when you are healthy. We call these vitamins prophylactic medicine [snorts] says you know you can take her food. You can take a prophylactic you make and he has her has very [snorts] an awful lot and saying things that to me are superfluous. He's saying you can take the Evan Tuma not interested. Evan Tkuma was that would have hollowed that stone or whatever. The Evan Tacuma was one of the you find the Gora. Good. So it's a rafu and this woman is taking it. She's not even she's taking it so she won't misarry. And she's taking it not even because she's pregnant. She's taking it because I suppose she's afraid she's pregnant, doesn't know it, and might miscarry. So she's allowed to you're allowed to take medicine prophylactically because mental illness you're [snorts] afraid you're af you've got fear the prophylactic medicine is a cure so that's prophylact you can take it prophylactically if you're afraid what if I take vitamins I don't even know why I'm taking them or I take some other prophylactic medicine I don't know I'm sick altogether the doctor has told me to take it didn't tell me why I'm taking it he didn't tell tell me I should be afraid if I don't take the the the medicine he gave me prophylactically I'm going to come down with a life-threatening infection didn't tell me any of that I'm taking because the doctor said so who who what's the matter here now I will tell I'm going to say something which is again a little bit of the kouch and it's not what is saying to me prophylactic medicine is heter I what me by heterro I need a mater to take an aspirin I don't need a mater to take a vitamin vitamin is prophylactic unless I'm already sick I'm taking it because it will prevent illness or I'm taking it the humor is got to keep me in balance and that's also certainly permissible uh I'm allowed to uh I'm allowed to um eat food that's perfectly. I don't need a mate that that says that's the mate. It's normal. I only need to to be able to eat so I shouldn't get sick. That's part of being healthy. It's part of living. That's part of the seafood. Everybody says, "So I've got to take vitamins for the same reason. It's keeps me healthy." Prophylactic is no different. I take the prophylactic medicine so that nothing's going to bother me. I don't get sick. There's no uh I don't know how you keep yourself healthy by taking prophylactic medicine. It's not my business. But it's like that's being healthy. There's no yet I who says I can't ask not to give me and I can use he shouldn't give me if I want. It's not thwarting to say don't do it or to prevent it if I can. Now the uh I I will try to explain it a slightly different way. I put on the winter coat and I go out in the street. He brought the cold. It's freezing out there. I keep you warm. That's is no such thing is not for me. It's cold out there because it's cold out there and wear a winter coat. You're allowed to eat to keep yourself healthy. You're allowed to put on a winter coat to keep yourself healthy. I'll give you another example. >> A vitamin is not a medicine. >> Sorry. >> So vitamin is not a medicine >> for shabas. It may be kasakamezig may be a vitamin because a rafe has to compound it. But I'm saying yes. is not a halic medicine and a rafu in hilab is not a rafu in h's rafu and that a prophylactic medicine is not a medicine it's a it's whatever it is I'm warding off disease and I don't need a special that's my I'm saying this it's a it's a you need a new mat for this the there's a wild bear out there I know how to and I want to go out in the street and he's running around town so So I get myself a coat of armor so that he can't do anything to me. I put armor over myself so nothing usually happen. I need a ma for that. I don't need a ma for that. So I prevent the can I kill the course I can kill the it's one way of preventing him from harming me. He's out there. There's no that the Kairo has to maul me that the Kairo is doing what the Kairo does naturally and you have a right to prevent it because there's no it doesn't make a difference whether the bear is 6 feet tall weighs 350 pounds or whether it's microscopic and we call it a virus or a bacterium either of either one of those little creatures is outside me and it's going to kill me if it invades. I can do whatever I want to keep them away. You have called vaccination. The vaccination keeps the bugs away. What I need material company pays for it, but it's not a rafu in rafu. is yes but in it's warding off disease not being and if I'm not being will never come I'm keeping the bugs away like I keep the bear away if I know how to keep the bear away uh that seems to me you know if you talk about all the reasons why you have to be inoculated the first is that uh it's it's from outside it's external and I can do to keep people away externally and the other is that I'm not sick yet is prophylactic. Those are two separate reasons but they converge. Whatever is prophylactic is mut because it doesn't require a mater and whatever is to prevent the disease from taking hold because I'm fighting it off with my immune system is just an another way of warding off an external threat. I can do it in my body also. The b the bug is here. I want to get rid of the bug. There's no smell yet. I'm not sick. The fact that the bug got into me and didn't do anything to me is not slo proof happens all the time. There lots of bugs that enter my system. My immune system kills them. So why' they get in the first place? Don't ask me. I have no idea. It certainly wasn't exeras that they should enter my body and I can keep them at bay by using something which is not being exeras. I have no problems with that whatsoever and I don't think you need a mat for that. Now I think that that is all true uh in so far as it goes but I have another reason why you know obviously if what I've been saying is correct then uh when I say that you're not allowed to use something which isn't because size of things don't need a a mater was only something which isn't exeros that anything prophylactic is not being associated. >> I absolutely said that >> and that's why vaccinations are fine because it's all prophylactic. >> Yes. >> And that the only time that we could potentially say it's afterwards after >> I'll use I'll use the magic word when it's a physiological illness. I think I captured just about everything. That's ex. It's physiological in one way or another. The body is breaking down and I am restoring it to the status quo. I'm restoring you to good health. Every every real illness is of that nature except the ones I'm trying to ward off prophylactically or that I'm guarding against in the first place like or or the wild bear or the little bugs that have entered or food. and vitamins is another kind of food. It's to keep the humors in balance to keep whatever the body needs naturally. The zeros I've got to eat and drink and do whatever it needs and take vitamins because that's nobody ever said it requires a mat of uh vera. You're not sick. If you're not sick, what do you need for? So all of those things are are different categories. Now uh if you take out the shor which is basically why I brought it theor after he's quoting the ram which is nothing more than the then he proceeds to say a second infu. You shouldn't practice medicine unless you are proficient. If there's a better doctor that's available, what are you doing this for? And then he says, don't do these things. There's something better you if you're not proficient enough. Then comes a new. It's the third. You also need your best sounds as if he's saying, "Yeah, if you're willing to bear the risk, you'll pay your own malpractice insurance so that when they sue you, you'll pay." Then don't bother getting a license. But if you have uh a license best then if you're obviously not if you did something wrong we're not talking about malpractice now but if you made an error you're notif once as long as you have refused now I wouldn't fault anybody and there are many who read it this way who say that you don't have you don't need medicine if you're willing to be self-insured but if you want to be part then get yourself a prison. I don't that's not I don't think that's and I have enough people who say it's not but my first one the best one is the grow the gro doesn't talk about being is on the he doesn't talk about he talks about the very first where he says Don't do this unless you're a bokei. Why? He doesn't know. He doesn't know about to say the last part says he want a chicken and a liver. You're not allowed to do this unless you're a bokei. And don't if there's a god same fu is no different now I think that yeah go ahead >> go to lime like so what you have to be the best doctor actor in the world >> yes you have to be the best doctor in the world and don't tell me that nobody goes to the best doctor in the world the reason is very simple because everybody lining up in his door and therefore there's only one doctor in town and I can't go to anybody else the answer is he only works 9 to5 or whatever his hours are and I can't get to see the best. Yes, you have to go to the best doctor. Of course, I I have to go there. >> Go to a like it's basin certified considered board certified and I can't go to a doctor who is very fine and trusted. I I need to go and wait or whatever. >> If you oppress me hard enough, I will tell you that if you have two doctors, one next to the other, and they're both sitting waiting for patients and one is a GP and the other is board certified and you're sick. I'm not talking you're going for a measel shot. That's not medicine. Remember, lots of things doctors do aren't medicine, but you've got you're really sick and you've gotlan, you got cancer. And this is a GP who trying to treat cancer, too. And the other guy is a boardcertified oncologist. You have to go to the board certified oncologist. He won't give you an appointment. So, go to the GP. But basic and the guy who's practicing the GP, she has no business practicing oncology unless he knows that you can't find an oncologist. That's all part of the the system. But that's I mean it's a it's a point, but you're correct. I I'm interested in something else. The Gro is talking about the first and he's certainly not talking about somebody who wants to evade liability for making a mistake of one kind or another and he's saying to do that and otherwise you have no business practicing medicine. This is a bokeh menu. Now we don't have anymore. I don't know of bez going I mean what he's saying is nobody would eat from a who doesn't have kabola. He went to the told you he know you w to a doctor. How do you know the doctor knows medicine or not? Maybe he's a quack. Maybe he's practicing homeopathic medicine. I don't know. Bezon won't let him practice homeopathic medicine. So I have to go to somebody who's bezen certified. So we don't have a bez to do this. So the which I don't have says because basin doesn't know medicine anymore. So now the state has licenses the best was no you can't without saying it's okay. It's you're not allowed to practice medicine without medicine just like the it's nothing else. You know you're a but so I'm reading it into it. I'm comparing it to the you know we'll the rubber stamp whatever they say. But what's the what's the pale say? If you're going for a cure of any kind, it has to be prescribed by a rafe, not by a homopathic practitioner. [snorts] And don't tell me that they won't put him in jail. That's nothing. They don't put him in jail because they don't consider medicine. They consider nonsense. You won't put every fool in jail, so they let them go free. Maybe they should be putting him in jail, but he certainly doesn't have refus. If somebody comes to me with a homeopathic prescription and tells me whatever he tells me, I can listen and say, "Did an MD prescribe it?" If the MD didn't prescribe it, it's user. And please don't ask me anything further. You want to go to your doctor with this snake oil and ask him, you should take it. If he says to take it then okay for shoes best and he said to take it take it and I don't know if I won't revoke his license tomorrow but right now he had to business but I'm what I'm trying to say is my point was that uh homeopathic medicine I said I'm using that as a generic term is er and I know it's er because I just spent an hour saying why it's now I said it in 30 Because unless you're rapper, it's also that's the simplest and why do we need of course I need the word that's why I think all the other team don't make any sense it's the didn't give every Tom Dick and Harry the right to practice medicine it's only the ra who has the right to practice medicine why because the practice Practice of medicine is either being and you do it only because he told me to go do whatever I want in medicine or this was the original. I think it's splitting hairs doesn't make any difference but it seems to me that it is precisely the uh the nature of the rishuse laapes. Now again, I know I've read all those books that I got last week and I know very well that those people out there claim that they have shown that it works. They did experiments and guess what I gave you snake oil and you got cured to proh. It's a logical fallacy. But they did their experiments. They say it's okay. So rabbi, why are you telling me I can't go to the practitioner? It's the Rambams to which I answer something different here. I pull out the Shu Yank which we may or may not have spoken about. The guy had sick, deathly ill, and he calls a doctor and the doctor takes out his black bag and he has a potion, a medicine which will either kill him on the spot or it will cure him. Says I won't go into why and when. The shushank says it's mut with two conditions. One with the agreement of roy roim the majority have to agree. What they're agreeing to I don't know but they're agreeing that it's not snake oil and that it'll can cure and it's not just dangerous. And the of the should be here the also I don't know what the is doing there today. Maybe I do know that's for a different day. But I need the to be mascul. What's he telling me? When I want to know whether a liver is kosher or trey, if I take out my ura, I take out the tour and I look at the rining and generally I follow rining. If I want to know whether this is a rafu or not a rafu, doing tests is not enough. The doctor has to know what the test is telling him. And if Roy Vim tell me it's quackery then don't tell me you did tests and you know Derek the soy that it works roy raim said it didn't give me all the hemopathic practitioners and line them up with the doctors and the rave of these people those aren't rafium to start with but even the ra the the rafim are telling me all the raim are telling me it's nonsense how can I use something that raim says it's nonsense I can practice medicine the way I like the gross says probably like a roy you found the right there's nothing noish there so it seems to me that for all of those reasons I don't know how many I enumerated homeopathic medicine or what I call quackery all of these things that really need a doctor's prescription but you don't have one those things are absolutely awesome I don't know the these books the book I don't know why none of them has said it I I went through most of them you can't read every line but nobody has said it and I'm surprised but either way I That's me in Brock.