Holocaust, America, Boro Park, 1940-51, Eliezer Goldschmidt #2 - Rabbi Chaim Dalfin

Continuing now the second the second part of this interview with Rabbel Leazar Golmmet about his life history from 1930 in Hamburg living through the terrible times of uh crystal and uh etc and then coming to America. Please continue. Anyway, as a result of so to speak all of these difficulties, as I said, what I said before concerning my uncle, he was he had been he was active so to speak and helping Jews till the very end. And uh my uh and your your wife said that he was a German. He had been in the German army before that in the first world war. in the first world war and he was ve he was uh very helpful to Jewish people in the in the army. First world war he was he had been he was he they were not very enthused he was was able to be transferred to a a where they exchanged prisoners of war. So it wasn't in the active and in the absive they were not my grandfather was very much against the idea of of war than the first world war. He said if the Moroim want to play on the on the Morine, they should play make these these Moroim were cousins. The German and the Russian and they were all cousins. They were all they were all grand you know Kaisers. They were all cousins. They were all grandchildren of the of the V of the what was her name Victoria Queen of England. Anyway, continue please. Anyway, the uh let's let's go now to the Holocaust time and move on. Uh I don't quite understand. Let's move on to when you how your father how your father how you guys left. Yeah. Okay. Since since the since the business this was already after the cut the crystal knuck and since and before the crystal I would say say my parents had come to the conclusions I have to get out of Europe they saw in Europe you you don't get out say it was only then that my parents in August 4 in August 38 before the crystal enough that they register for the American council to get to to on the quarter. Yes. To to be able to get to America. Yes. Never be before my parents had not intended to go to America. Right. But in other words, it turned out that the that the the Dutch didn't let us in. Saved us out. Otherwise, we would have settled down in Holland where where everybody was was was sent to my my grandfather later having been in Ireland as well. He was sent to Sovidor by the Germans. Uh and so then we we had a per temporary in January 39 we had a temporary permission to get to Holland. We was we were in Holland for time to to to wait so to speak till our term came on the at the consul the American consulate and we were um we finally got the visa in uh end of November 38 the end of 30 November nomber 39. November 39. And we were able to we were able to sail from to sail for to to sail from to to go with a ship, Dutch ship in January 40. in January 40 when England was already at war between and Germany and we got to America in February 40 which was 3 months before the Germans invaded Holland and any who anybody who didn't get out before couldn't get out anymore. Right. So once the once the uh the war broke out in 39 in Poland, was there a difference in the uh in the atmosphere and behavior in Hamburg to Chris to 38? No, what I'm asking is was there a noticeable difference of the level of everything by the Germans from September 39 compared to November 38 in Hamburg. Well, you you're asking of the German, so to speak, the the non-Jewish world and the German No, the Nazis how they treated Jews. In Hamburg, it was in and Hamburg itself was comparatively comparatively quiet. Quiet. That was a c certain certain I would say it had to do possibly with Hamburg being a a a port city and always had other people in it unlike where various smaller German towns which was purely so to speak either you were 100% for or 100% games probably it had an effect but after all you must you are asking I I'm not speaking in retrospect because after all at the time I was how old was I right to to judge that exactly what was I think it that's okay I can only judge so to speak what my personal experiences I understand okay please continue now with the from now you came to America where did you come and tell us about that please we we came to America obviously since it was actually a a a a a process of of of leaving. We came to to America in February of 1940 Ellis. You came to Ellis Island? No, we were we had proper visas. So where did you come? We came to right to to Manhattan. We came to America. Some Jewish organization accepted us. Hay hayas I suppose so I yes and we uh we put up at some hotel and we could find other place right obviously we were due to the fact that they took us so long and everything was taken from us first the Germans and then on the way couldn't take us we came with our suitcases nothing else nothing else nothing else also with no money or no nothing. Uh, and this is And who came? Your parents and your and your my parents and your two and your two siblings and yourself. My parents with our three children children. Yes. Then we uh we stayed in a wombing house in in in something like 142nd Street or something like that. In Harlem. Harlem York. In New York. In New York. in Harlem. Manhattan. Manhattan. Okay. Yes. Manhattan. I was sent at the time uh to uh up to the school of Right. RJ RJ RJ. It wasn't It was in the east side, right? East side. Lower East Side. So that's a very from 142nd Street all the way down. Is every how'd you go by bus? No, subway. Subway. Okay. By by that time I was already 10. Yeah. I came to America exactly a day after I became 10. Anyway, you came to the yeshiva and yeshiva there were either Yiddish or mostly Yiddish or English. And I would say at the time at the time the Jewish people did not grasp what was going on in Europe. And uh the result was I was a refugee. That's all. And a refugee is a nutnik. And a refugee who couldn't speak properly, right? And uh tried to give me a thing of Yiddish. And there was no and uh it didn't work. I didn't get I didn't I didn't pick up the Yiddish as such. Right. It was uh and I did pick up actually the English. Okay. And I can't tell you the reason, but so maybe for the future for what I could get after my wife. But anyway, uh so my my parents were looked around what to do with and where to live, where to bring up the children and uh had contact with some people who they knew from Hamburg and who lived in Bora Park nameski. Oh my gosh. The banana but they were but I know but they came from some of them but they came from Hamburg. Yeah they came from Hamburg right. Sure. My parents have been friendly with them in Hamburg. Did you know he moved here? Label Bastritzky. That's one of the sons. Yeah. I was friendly there with his brother. With his brother. Okay. Yeah. Alex. Alex. Go ahead. Yeah. So the the Bitzkys lived in Burough Park. Yes. and they suggested that we move to some place in B park. Of course, it was a very small apartment, someplace right not in center where Bitzky lived, but where we could be on 44th Street at the time. And uh 44 between 13th and 14th, that's what you're talking about. Between 14th and 15th and 44th Street. Okay. At the time. Uh anyway, and to just show you the uh lack of understanding, we're talking about we're talking about 40. We're talking about 1940. 40 summer and and a winter of 40, right? No, not a winter. Winter of winter of 40, not 41. No, cuz you came in February. You came in February of 40. The winter. Yeah. Okay. Anyway. Yeah. And to you just show you. And now we were three boys and three boys make noise. We were on top of on the top floor there there and running down the stairs. And one of the absolutely normal today I would say normal and yisher couple was below was living below us. Okay. And one of the times when we were going down the stairs making a lot of noise she more or less said you can go back to Hitler or something. At the time the Jews did not realize what was doing and I'm not I'm not say I'm not saying it to to to her detriment. Right. I'm saying it how was the the the mentality of the Jews in America at the time did not know and did not grasp what was going on. Right. I understand. Continue please. And so we we we stayed until and what you and then you you didn't once you told me you left Yakov Ysef when you moved to Borrow Park. You didn't go to Yak of Ysef anymore, right? No, we went to public school. We went to public school in Burough Park. In Bor Park on 14th Avenue, right? Uh and I went to a tutorial was at the uh 43rd Street. But I I the obviously and the my parents again didn't have any incomes. The income which they did a cue accomplish to a sick was my mother went to to scrub floors. She was a cleaner house cleaner otherwise it was immos possibility to some other again I as a child I must say I was spoiled by my parents. the the uh the uh the food was there and the thing was there. Right. Right. So that was it. And uh the uh the atmosphere was and I picked up as usual. I picked up everything and uh in school it was simple for me. And uh do you remember Dr. Schmidline? No. There there was a German doctor who was very who who was very big on getting women to go to the mikvah. He was a doctor. You sure? I I'm not pronouncing his name. The some German doctor. He lived on 12th Avenue, but he lived on 45th between 12th and 13th. Schmidline. I don't know. No. Okay. I don't know if Tell was his activities again as a You're a young boy. I understand. I understand. I I was Well, he lived into the 50s. I just was wondering if you knew. Anyway, tell me a little bit about the culture besides what you said in in Borrow Park from 1940 to 1951 cuz I live in Borrow Park and Borrow Park today is 500,000. Bark was completely different. There were the shuls. Don't forget the the the shul which was later we moved in in 42. We moved from 44th Street to 40th Street. Uh, which was right the the apartment 45th Street was right across the street from the father. And the spar shul has a history if you may know or not know has a history of having had minonim on shabat morning early in order that the people could go to work. I I am aware of it. That's why the shul on 13th and 53rd broke away and they call themselves shim shabas. I see. I did not know that. Absolutely. That's what happened. I did not. And that's why they're the big the shul that has the most minyanim in the world. They have minyanim from minor to 45 in the morning. I've seen it for my eyes. It's a bit late. But no, I'm just I'm just saying that they Okay. They have a Okay. Anyway. Anyway, go ahead. Anyway, so anyway, there be was the co was there a kosher bakery? Was there a kosher butcher? What was there in the 1942 43 44? they the the meat this is was again the association of Pistritzki. There were some several other German people there and the after all at the time a a store selling kosher meat which was written baser yes could not be relied upon and therefore these these Jews who were orthodox in in Germany knew no no kim so to speak and they saw to that some butcher which was under the hashkah of Raf Buer in the Bronx sent me once a week to Borak. And that butcher as a matter of fact received from us also a key that he to our apartment that he could come in and put it into the refrigerator. Wow. That that that was that was the that was his setup at the time. And so we had meat which was at the time at the time there was no at the time at the a bakery there was no bakery at the time and bread I think there was certain bread which could purchase which was that that's what was the situation do you remember Rabbi Simpson No. Debaberov in Boro Park on 46th Street between 15th and 16th. Elu Simpson. No recollection. No. Rabbi Pow. No. Him. You know when they were there? I No. Rabbi Simpson was there from 1936. So he was there when you were there. I do not know. No. You didn't go to that sh. You went to Ben Yehuda. I I He went to Ben. I did not go. I went to we we my my father. Yeah. My father and we we accompanied him to shun where on 11th Avenue is 52nd Street on 14th Avenue. Right. Right. 52nd and 14th. Right. Right. Right. I know the show. Um did you hear anything about in Kits the previous? No. At the time? No. Nothing. Nothing in the 1940s? Nothing. Nothing. Your father didn't go to any rebas. He wasn't aid. Certainly not. Certainly not. Why? Explain that. Certainly not. Certainly not. He was he was he was a German Jew. He was he was a everything from him exact and that's it. Right. There was no there was no this idea of aid. He didn't go for that. Yes. He was very against it. Pardon? He was against the concept. He was against the whole concept of I don't think that we we don't think that we had conversation in that sort of arguing and there were no were there were were there let me ask you do you remember any in Boro Park in the 40s any and the early times there were the big the big part by the way on the way from from 45th street to 52nd street where we and to on 52nd Street. There was on 49th Street uh Temple Emanuel which was conservative. Right. Right. It was conservative. Yes. So and so it was these these shoes that were there. There were Jews there. Yes. But there were also go there. The it was it and 13th Avenue was in the main uh open on Shabbat. 13th Avenue was or was not was open on Shabbat mainly. Yeah, it was because many Jews had stores there. Do you remember Wallocks? Wallocks clothing store? Wallocks? No. And um did not shop at the time. Yeah. What about what about uh the the shul the temple uh Bethl on 15th and 48. Later on you went to hear Mosha Kosvitzki. I I later on when they when I was maybe 15 16 something like that I knew that Kusovitzki was traveling there and was after we went to don't forget on in America is the hot is a is a festival of so to speak Shabbat and we uh uh it wasn't it wasn't that way in in Hamburg. I do not know how it was in Hamburg. It was too small. Okay. Um it was certainly not my Americanized. Anyway, but anyway after I know that in the 15 I was 15 16 already then after went to and I sometimes went on there was a monster Shabbat Sunday not working I went to listen outside of B because you had to pay to get a chance to get in and listen to Kusitzki from outside which took took time till about 2:30 3:00. Yeah. Yeah. At the time that was of course an unusual thing, but that's much later. Anyway, uh so Boro Park at the time had mostly non-Jews, right? Italians not so much Italian more further though, all kinds of people, but there are also a lot of Jews. But a lot of Jews who uh so to speak the uh Shabbat was not important not the main concern right what about Yakir bigizen big I knew you knew Yakir I don't know what his name was well the the sons were more your age moa and schlimmerizen and moiz very friendly Mrs. speaker. I think that must be Yakir's wife. That Yakir the father and they sought to they helped my mother in many ways. Uhhuh. Yeah. uh later on as a well it wasn't somebody else but they were very friendly with with them but uh so and uh I kept on going to school and going on thing and uh then of course came you went to college afterwards in for first came in in November in December 41 was the Pearl Baba uh that uh Okay. But you were you didn't go to the army. You were 11 years old. Yes. Yes. The the atmosphere changed. The atmosphere in America changed. America was has to be noted by the way the the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. America was furious about that when they because they they were negotiating and Germany declared war on America four days later. It's historically proven. And America afterwards only declared war against Germany because America did not want to fight Germany. Okay. It was a and Okay. But but that what does it have to do with you the later on? 194748 that was much earlier. That was in 41. Yes. 41. But I want to show you the atmosphere which was current and it had to do with the the Jews. The Jews again did not so to speak in the Second World War time of the Second World War. I never never saw as a child a pregnant woman on on the street for the simple reason that the the uh uh all men the moment there was war all men in America at the time drafted yeah were drafted right and uh so and the people didn't know much about what was happening in Europe right the change the okay but your brothers weren't older enough to be drafted. Your brothers, my oldest brother was drafted in 43. Then he became 18 and he served with the US Navy in the Far East. Okay. He was he was uh later on in Okinawa. Okinawa, right? So, so um when you finished high school, what did you do? I kept on going to and went to CCN to college. Which one? First to for a year I was in Brooklyn college and then made the test to go into city college. And what did you study? Uh foreign trade and economics and you got a degree in that? Yes. Okay. So then and what happened next that you you got you left or your parents left in 1951? I think you said to error. No. Okay. Correct me. Please correct me. No, no, no. Now you once again do you remember 1948 with with the in 1948 the change the moment that he came the moment that it came the state of Israel known to what was what went to Europe known to everyone not only to few people. The Jews suddenly woke up. They woke up and they made tremendous demonstrations to see to it that the Jews can get out of Europe. I'm speaking about after to America to destroy there was Jews. There were demonstrations of a million people. Okay, hold on a second.