Judaism Without Apologizing- Reb Menachem Nissel

Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Judaism without apologizing. Today I sat down with someone who's inspired thousands of people across the globe and that is none other than Rev Man Niss. Nissle is one of those people who somehow blends depth and clarity and humor all at the same time. He has been teaching in seminaries in Shalim for decades. He's been Arabian. He gives Shirim and tours all across Europe and the world. And he's also a senior educator for NCSY and the author of some pretty incredible books like Rigsh women and as well as the book looking into the sun which is his best-selling biography of his rebi which came out pretty recently and he has we had a really fascinating conversation. talked about whether people actually need to go to seminary and some of the big misconceptions about what seminary is supposed to be and uh I even asked him why seminary is so expensive. We also got into we got into macho. We got into anti-semitism and of course his reb Shapiro. And it's an honest, sharp, really eye-opening conversation. And if you've ever heard Rabbi Nissle speak, you know that he is certainly not a man that minces words. So buckle up because this is an interview that will certainly ruffle some feathers. This is Judaism without apologizing. A Torah Anytime original series, Rabbi Shalam, it's a pleasure to have you on the Judaism without apologizing podcast, an exclusive Torah Anytime original series. Thank you very much for coming. >> It is so exciting to be here in your beautiful home. >> Yes. So, can you give us a quick 30 second bio of your life, of what you do, and how you do it? >> 30 seconds. >> Yes. >> You sure? 30 seconds. Bottom line, I see myself. Um, those two luminaries basically guide everything I do with my life. Um I pride myself to be a teacher. Um I'm a Z to be husband, father, Sabah building my beautiful home and um I'm just passionate about caring about Cla. >> Great. Excellent. So you have been a seminary teacher for a long time, several decades at this point. Yeah, I think I started somewhere between um the Civil War and Vietnam. I [laughter] don't remember exactly, but it's been literally forever. >> So, I want to talk about that for a minute and I want to address the elephant in the room, which is >> talking about your mother-in-law. >> No, the other elephant in the room. >> Okay. >> Which is what is the point of seminary? What is the point? What is the purpose? Is it to make people frummer? Is it to prep them for marriage? Is it some sort of you know expensive trip for fun? What is the point? >> So it happens to be a very good question uh which I get from many many distraught fathers who are about to spend half of [clears throat] their fortune on sending their daughters to seminary for a year. Um the way I personally see it, I'm going to quote my rebol for a moment. Um the shar begins with and revolvations and shrin which are roots under the ground. And he would explain that um for example in this house you build it mortar and bricks okay in exactly the same way you build a person that they have to know halah they have to know Jewish history they have to know that and that's how you build a person but you've got this beautiful tree over here which is is it is it alive I don't want it's not alive okay but let's pretend it's alive for one moment it's something that's alive is delicate and it is um it has true fierce to it, true vitality to it and every human being needs to have that dimension called as well that makes them into who they are. So I believe that what we do in Israel which we cannot do in America and I literally got mad last week at one of my who said why can't I keep my daughter in America why can't I send her to England in you give a young lady shashim that I don't believe any other place in the world can do and those shwashing translate into their future you can see it let's say on their 30th birthday that they have terror instincts and how to live their lives, deal with their marriages, their children, their neighbors, real real life. They're bringing out this subliminal shrim that good seminaries have given to them. That's payday. You see, when they build their Jewish homes, what they gained is not so much the pages and pages of notes that they've accumulated, but rather it's the the experience that comes with the notes that goes deep down into their essence. And that is something that makes every single penny worthwhile. >> So let me let me harp on one of the things that you said. Why can I not accomplish that in Bart Park or in London? >> You got to get out of your comfort zone. That's number one. You got to go as far away as you can from your usual haunts of where you've hung out. And you need to go to a place that is right. is the country that you know is the pizza store that you know and is that even though you can come from a phenomenal home but you don't have that breath that you do when you come to Eritis and you're there with people from all over the world you walk the distance from the hotel the kilo whatever you want and uh you meet teachers that broadening you with different viewpoints and most of all you're in the you're breathing in the right being that the that incredible power that Eric Israel has you can't get that here it just it doesn't work and again there are individuals where it does work for just um to Benot Miriam and Fagi Bertram Nishon she never went to seminary she brought me And she did not need seminary. I was there when the rabbit and teak comes told her you don't need to go to seminary and she didn't. She got what she needed from her home. She came built. But she's from the 5%. And the remaining 95% there's no question in my mind that the there's a certain level of maturity and and inner strength that they don't even know that they have. um self-discovery, finding out different parts of their personality that can only be brought out by having roommates from foreign countries and teachers that are saying things that are like they're struggling with and and having those late night DMCs till 3:00 in the morning with their with their friends and that is what changes them. That's what gives them the you see their homes 5 years later, 10 years later is different from the ones that did not go. It is definitely stronger, definitely more authentic and they have that instincts to know what to do when those inevitable crises and struggles that life brings you actually happens. >> Wow. So, do you think that seminaries to a degree have become a little bit of like a status symbol where there's like what you're describing is fading a little bit and you go to a seminary where everyone's the exact same as you nowadays. There's little to no diversity. It's everyone's the everyone might even be from the same community within Lakewood or Muny or Flatbush. Is that what you've just described slowly fading away and it's just it becomes like an experience a glorified trip with other people who agree with you who just validate what you already were taught by your own community. Is that fear? Unfortunately, um I cannot tell a lie, right? There's there's a lot of truth in what you're saying. Um and honestly those could be I can only speak for the seminaries that I work for. Um I work for for example Yakov and there I know that the Manal Greenwald puts a lot of thought to make sure that it doesn't happen. He tries to focus on the individual. Um he tries to make sure that people are spending time on their own thinking about who they are. But you're right. Um, and if a young lady says to me, "Which ceremony should I choose?" I I will literally beg them. Beg them, don't go, "Well, my friends are going there and it's going to be so cool." No. Stop and think what is authentically best for you. And don't worry about because I know you're going to bring up at some point, right? Do not worry about ask yourself what's going to be best for you. And very very often the answer to what's going to be best for you is to go not where your friends are going. Maybe one friend, right? Just that you can integrate a little bit easier, but to go to places that's a little bit out of your comfort zone. That's what I encourage. You're describing a problem. I tell each individual who come ups and says, "What should I choose?" Don't fall for that problem. >> Wow. Interesting. So, let me ask you this question. Do you think that some seminaries are promoting extremism where some girls are just ignited but with pretty extreme I'm calling them extreme. They obviously wouldn't call them extreme ideas um inem they come back and they're not ready for it. I'm not calling them extreme because they're wrong. I'm saying for that girl it's extreme but they you know swallowed the whole thing and they come back. When you see extreme, that's the code word for call out >> or or that live in a onebedroom apartment with six kids and no couch and mysterious neffesh is a good thing and the more mysterious nefes the better. and they in one year swallow that hole and come back and they want a m a boy who's going to do that and then 5 years in when that becomes like unbearable. They begin to resent that and they don't like that. And their friends who are just middle-income people who are living in nice homes and their husband is a rebi or he's working but it's like a normal house. They're sort of slaving away with a lot of my nephesh just to to be their mas who was a little bit extreme who lived in didn't know the intricacies of of America well and that passion wore off. Is that a problem or am I making something up? It's definitely definitely a problem. Let me just try and justify. First of all, for those people that push that lifestyle in their mind, um they're trying to allow the young lady's pendulum to swing to the right knowing sometimes it goes back into the center again afterwards, but not all the way to the center. They're trying to give them a possible vision. Uh so it doesn't work out. At least it'll get close to that. Um I can only really speak for myself. I can't even speak for my colleagues in the seminaries that I work. I know what I teach. I know my mantra um my definition of col is a finishing school for zoolans meaning for balabatim. You and I secretly know we're right here in liquid at the moment that there's a ton of burnout with the young men. I was actually speaking to um a Talmud last night in Tom's River and he told me, you know, it gets hard to be at him. People burn out by the time they're 30. It's very clear that the ones that did time that Lent and Colo in their mid20s, their chances of learning in their 30s and 40s and 50s is much higher. So I tell young ladies, here's the deal. You want your husband to be learning. So at least do after the wedding one, two, 3 years. col just to ensure that it's in your husband's bloodstream in an era where it's increasingly hard for young men to sit still and to be kabim and to live a a a a a terror lifestyle the way they're supposed to do. So that's an investment for balabatim. There are young ladies I teach who who can do more and um most of them I will say to them you cannot do poverty. Yeah, Mr. Bar Hashem, I I learned throughout my 20s and um no one was supporting me, but we did not do poverty. When my wife and I, we both work. I worked on the side. I was tutoring. I was an Uber driver before Uber. I used to get up at 6:00 in the morning. No one believe my kids don't believe I did this. And I used to drive kids to school and get make some pocket money on the side. because I had this vision that it was important for me to be a terror scholar way before I ever thought of teaching. I only started taking teaching seriously when I was in my late 20s. But again, the the the there's something beautiful about the K system in our generation when the world is so heavily in one direction to have those anchors in the other direction which is basically the anchor of Israel. Um it's something beautiful about people that live modest modestly uh that live a terror lifestyle you know like Aron Steinman describes about his own walls on one condition on one condition that this has to be a family that's going to be happy. If they're not happy if the kids are not happy they're doing it wrong. So again we just summarize what I just said. There are a few individuals who really can go all the way and they can even learn beyond 30. Vulba used to say uh I don't understand how aim are learning over the age of 30 when there's so much that they can do in cur and raon shapro when I once dared to ask him should I push my sons and son-in-laws who are like turning 30 in their going into their 30s I pushed them to go and find a job to step out And he looked at me. He says, "Right, let them learn a little bit." So I get I kept my mouth shut and it works out. Each one of my sons found their place. My second son opened up a yeshiva and da for kids like him for kids that are struggling a little bit who are good heads but need a warm place. My older son is his shave [clears throat] as you know you know my family. Okay. David Mayer lives in Miami who works with Israelis. The bottom line is is that things tend to sort themselves out. If they have healthy, they'll understand the importance of responsibility to make sure there's food on the table, to make sure their kids are clothed, their kids are happy, the kids have what to do on their vacays. Um, so again, that is for one segment. the vast majority the vast majority of that going to marry his sons and for them they need one or two years after the wedding just to be able to make sure that terror is in the bloodstream of their husbands that they start their marriage with this like everything is perfect husband goes to shul then he goes to col he learns he comes home spends time with the family he goes back to col start do that for a couple of years and then afterwards they branch out and they go to work, go to law school or whatever works for them. >> So, let me ask one final question about uh the seminary world and that is why is it that it's so expensive? What? There's like murmurings and rumblings in the coffee rooms in America that it's like a stickle scam that there's just you have 350 girls, you're charging what $35,000, $30,000. That's like more than $10 million. Why? Where does the money go? >> So, I I've never looked at the books and um honestly, I don't get paid particularly well by any of the seminaries. I'm gonna get to travel now. Um, okay. But, uh, yeah, that's it. That's one of the reasons why I'm here now. Hello. Try to make a living. Um, no one who works for the seminaries is becoming rich. They all have to figure out their finances somehow through a father-in-law, wife working, side jobs, and so on and so forth. The man are people who people think are extremely rich. I know them personally. They're my friends and they make a good living but they're not rich, okay? They're not like, you know, they're they are able to marry off all their kids. But I know them personally and um each one of them they're people like I I just know Rabbi Shahman. Okay, I'm telling you people Rab Shan charges the full price. I know him as a person. the person is only interested in Finn, only interested in what's best for his students and he just makes sure that he has, you know, he lives modestly in the same apartment he has for the last 40 years. He wants to make sure that he has what's best for the girls. I have no idea. I never check the books. I just honestly know that these are really good people. And I'm not saying this because I want to keep my jobs. They're really good people. everyone that knows that Ray Shaman and all the other people that I work for um one after the other there are people I I just did a shabaton last week for the Orbach and Bur Miriam you look into their brains in any given moment all they're thinking what's best for their students God knows how they manage to budget themselves but they're totally mind and uh yeah this is this is the cost of how these things work and I still think it's significantly less than paying for university. >> For sure. [snorts] For sure. >> Also keep in mind that you can't fund raise for a seminary. It just doesn't work. You can fund raise for Yeshiva. My son at any given moment is paranoid about making the budget. He has to fund raise. You can't expect it from tuition. Seminaries are going to say, "Hey, would you like to spend your hardearned money to help a girl spend a year in Israel?" Not happening. It's just not. they cannot fundra and they have to have to make it into the tu into the tuition. >> So if you would just conclude this segment by by if you could say one thing to a girl who's about to get on the plane and try to get the best out of her year, what would you tell that girl? >> Wow. Okay. One thing. She's getting on the plane. It means she's already chosen her seminary. So she already heard me give her a speech. Yes. Be authentic and choose the seminary that's best for you. um is to soak in the experience. Make each day the best day ever. Don't do a you know sometimes I don't feel like doing anything day. Really try and squeeze the experience. Make every day a little drop of Rika's water on that rock that is that stone in your heart till it makes a hole right through and and try and make every day as special as possible. Enjoy yourself, enjoy the laughter, enjoy the intellectual stimulation, but ultimately it's the emotional dimension that's most important and have the attitude that I must experience every day to its fullest. So let's move on to the next stage in life which isim which I've seen you have several on any time right now. Oh yeah about this topic. Uh anytime and you can subscribe to my YouTube channel right now [snorts] >> and I I really want to get these ideas out there. I'm very passionate about it because I'm the one that listens to all the pain. >> Ah so so let's start with the generic and then we'll get to some of the specifics. What would you say is your biggest pet peeve when it comes to that? You could have a megaphone and tell all girls, all mothers, all boys in the world right now something. What would you say if you could be brutally honest? My pet peeve is that people should stop believing there's a god in this world. My pet peeve is Yeah. Oh my gosh, did he just say that? Yeah, I just said that. I honestly think that my pet peeve is that people read If you ask anyone what is the message of which by chance is next week's para right what's the message everyone says so what's the what would you say [snorts] right he went out went to the other side of the world looked for find the right shak he was hard work if you wait another par it was insanely hard for him to find. You've got those two extremes, the Yeets experience and the Yakov experience. One was everything went chuck. The other one was like, "Oh my gosh, you're dealing with a love. Life is hell." But they always forget that the original forim was. And I'm so into this. I don't want to this not I'm not firmizing this whole sugi over here. I believe this from the bottom of my heart. Um I know Americans like to talk about crisis. Everyone's a crisis and stuff like that and are dealing with the broader bigger issues of what's going on. Um every so often they come out with new ideas for Mishbah magazine who I write for every couple of months comes out with these new initiatives. You know what? They're all fantastic. But I deal with real people going through the real pain of looking for a This is what I say to them. The first is in Europe when a G found a good shak they used to say that she knew how to well and he took his three steps back. He turned around and there there she was right there falling off her camel. So he that was his says for you bring to the centerpiece of the narrative and you tell something very simple. All I need is to marry one person and after that you're in his good hands. You do your just like you do for your health or for your you do youras forim. Um you're probably going to ask me this. I'm going to say this to you right up front. I always tell young ladies when you go to shenan you go to shin with exactly the same mindset as you go to your dentist. You go on a professional. They're going to do their stuff. It's going to be humiliating. You have to open your mouth and they're going to this what they're going to do to you. Just take it in your stride. Don't let it traumatize you. End of the day, it's just your how's the going to come? Don't worry. the chevraas is going to be great stories to be told but make sure you put center to your chilos. I'm not a big fan of of ding early. I just had this argument with my daughter who's [snorts] my youngest is entering. I told her a year ago wait you have plenty of time to d for yourim. You don't have to start early. When you're in the para you make sure that is close to you. You tell I'm not going to let anything depress me. I'm not gonna let anything overwhelm me. I know it's in your hands. At the right moment, you're going to find exactly the right guy. >> So, let me ask you this. Do you think we've created a generation that's obsessed with checking boxes where we almost don't care about the personality, about their nephesh? It's all about where do her parents die and where did her grandparents dive in? Which camp did her father go to or his father? >> Don't forget what she got in fifth grade for Yeah. >> Is that a problem? Is that good that we're we're we we want we want quality and we're so selective or is that horrible? What is it indicative of? >> It's insane. Hill, you know that everyone knows it's insane. This checking boxes thing is not is local. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. You're marrying a real person. people do it because it's like a safety zone for them. Um, a lot of it does make sense. Um, in terms of compatibility to do the research, you want family is going to work for you. But in the end of the day, uh, we all know that the bestim are authentic. Meaning once I use the word authentic, I'm sorry. It's got to be, you know, real people marrying real real people. And um how many times have you and I seen shidim that did not make any sense on paper and they're the best marriages ever. You stop by looking at me. No one can explain how this British boy married a Memphis girl. Um totally different personalities. But this what a bar wanted. And um I know this. I have friends like who made totally unintuitive. No checking boxes. We live in a generation that's paranoid about these boxes and real educators and real mim have to proverbally hold the hand of their tal and walk them through and say no that's not how these things work. You do your you try and make sure that it makes sense on paper and a little bit you got to listen to the bus call. The bus call means that people are read to you and you got to look at the list over here and say forget about the boxes. Who is this person? Why are they writing this person to me? What is the magic of this person? And very very often you'll realize that yeah the parents are divorced but this guy is a is a pituit like we say in Israel is an incredible guy. And I always tell young ladies look at the person and the real person what he's all about. It's not about the boxes. It's about who he is and is he suitable for you? Does he bring out the best of you? Do you laugh when you're with him? Does he make you feel good? And um those make the best. So, let's say you have a a girl who she's 23. She's been in for since she was 18 and she's only gone on one date. She does not get resumes and for no real good reason. Her father's a nice man. He's he's, you know, an engineer or he does his job. He's not a millionaire. He's not a Russa. He lives in Brooklyn. She's got nothing that's highlighting her, right? >> But she's a good girl or he's a good boy. It's more usually a problem with the girls. >> Sure. >> What should she do? She's stuck. She's gone out in five years or she had one one date. >> Okay. So, before I answer, I just want to make a little point. I have my wallet in my jacket right now. I could take it out. Actually, you know what? I'm going to take it out. What is it? Where's my wallet? Did you take it for me? Um, it's somewhere over here. And yeah, here it is. This is my little wallet. uh taken out every min at the end of my estray because min is and in there I got my my my list over here of people to get on the list you have to be 26 and uh those people are people that are boss bias people that we're close to my wife and I that we really care about and I'm doubling for them every single for secret about this list there's There's no way that you could have figured out who this list is. Some of the girls there, they score 10 across the and they're all they're hitting 30 and they've got everything going for them where they come from. They got everything. They just can't find a sh. And um I have and then of course you know you got the people who you can say oh if only she would do X Y or Z then she could fix things. Um there's a whole range and it doesn't really fit into a pattern. So what you're describing over here about that the average god from the average home the father has an average job. He's not a makan. He's not a rashiva. He's not a rich um I'm not sure you're right. It's these people sometimes they find straight away and everything goes smoothly for them. There's definitely a gazer out there that is running his world before Mashiach. where um there's a lot of pain and suffering going on. Um, people can't have children. Parents have kids going off to Dar sicknesses that Mishbah magazine every week in family first you find out new things that people have that you never knew about. [snorts] And there's people that have difficulty in finding and once again go back to what I said to you beforehand is infinitely powerful. He can find the right person tomorrow with ease. So make him the center of your hashem and that's it. You bring him into the narrative and that's it. So that's what it's all about. I honestly don't think there's anything else some kind of magic wand to be able to solve the sh issues the ch I don't like to call it a crisis but the challenges these young ladies have except for is asking you to find new levels of inside of you that you never had before to realize that you're going through genuine and you have to find new in created this crisis will give you the solution at the right moment with the type person. >> Wow. So, what's your take on a girl who's 28 and is no not yet married and she refuses to allow her 26 and 24 and 22 year old sisters to go out. Is that appropriate? Is that not appropriate? So, first of all, I don't think there's an acrable answer to this because you have to the the dynamics of the family. But if there was a rule of thumb and I discussed this with my rebim back then um I can't remember it was Rome or I have discussed it with my rebim and they gave me a general mahalak they said the world has changed a pre-war Europe everyone went the oldest daughter and the minax the world has changed because we're fully aware that it's extremely extremely hard to find a good shar made this an assign for our door so what you have to do is figure out how to do it in the way that's mubad to the older sister. But the moment you hit, I had this discussion with Shabas. I was shabas in Boston. I told the young lady, uh, you should wait for the moment. You should wait for the moment because she was 21, sister was 23. And I don't remember what I told her, but maybe I told her, "Wait till your 22nd birthday. After that, you're going to have to tell your sister I'm going to ask a Shiloh. You can come to me. I'll tell you you should start dating. Your sister is going to have to deal with it. I want to tell you something here. I've seen this enough times to say it's almost like a trend opens doors of the younger sister gets married. How many times have you heard and I've heard that soon after the older sister app and families get that you know they get that of the so to speak takes away the din in that family. Let me just summarize what I just said because it's it's kind of not clear. I want to say there's no rule of thumb. You have to know the family. But if there would be a rule of thumb, you have to break that rule of waiting for that sister in the world that we live in. And approximately when a young lady is 22 or 23, she's going to have to respectfully and in a way of tact saying to older sister use dera as your um as your alibi that you have to start dating. Also one more thing um if if a younger sister gets read somebody gets suggested someone so my theory is where makes it that people suggest I call it a basel if somebody mentions a name for you you see it's kind of random people from all over the place suddenly appear and suggest people you cannot just ignore it you have to take that that suggestion seriously it's not the same as going to Somebody comes up to you and says to you, "It's a boy, I think, is certainly matim for you." Then you may have to go and tell your sister, "I'm sorry. I need to date this young man." >> So, let's say you end up going out and it's like totally off the mark. Does that mean it wasn't a bus goal or it was a Hashem wants you to go through that process? >> It could have been a bus goal that you should learn something about yourself. >> That's how you know it's it's what happens. You think about it. when you went into names came from all over the place and your thought process was this way that way. Fast forward five years, it's all irrelevant. Sent you the person that you're supposed to marry and you see there's a sudden who sent you names and um you need to listen you need to listen to the names of take them seriously and then ask yourself is it right you if the answer is no no the answer is yes then you're going to have to have a chat with your sister or ask your parents to have a chat with your sister. So let's move on to another another topic. You are you wrote the biography of Rivisha Shapiro who I think we can say was the the champion of Makab or at least one of them the last 50 years. So I want to talk a little bit about that and my first question is what exactly is Mahaba? How would you define it? Because the people who are into macha then anything that they like is makaba and the people who don't like mshaba anything they don't like is labeled makshaba. What is okay so the way I explain to a beginner just to keep everything simple is that in contrast to mus right muser is how you build yourself and mak is how you understand how hashem runs his world. So um classic makava textbook would be derashem classic mus textbook would be sasharm both written by the same author. Now again I'm simplifying it to to no end. But when you learn sasharm you find out how to become a better person to work in zahirus and zesus and nikas and so on. When you learn hashem you answer the questions who is god what does it mean there's a god in this world? What's he all about? How am I supposed to understand it? Revol Okay, this is probably going to be your next question. Okay, but revolving is to say that it's when uh young men and young women cannot well he said young men, okay, I added young women that cannot um eloquently answer a secular Jew basic questions in Judaism. He obviously he said this 30 years ago suggested that every yeshiva katana boy should learn kuzari classic safer I teach it in the yeshiva that I walk in do you know I work in yeshivas as well you know I'm a gumar already okay these are like secrets that people don't know the bottom line is is that hashem chapter one nature of god chapter two what's the purpose of the world how many times do people ask you hashm CR why what did he want then people ask why did he make life so difficult why do bad things happen to good people that's really based inem [snorts] what's the unique nature of cla perkimal then you want to know about all these concepts in Judaism like what's the purpose of angels and why do we have demons and shadim and why do we have um what happens after you die what's the purpose of mashiach what is what is these are the basic tenets of Judaism of how we live our lives. So, can I just interject? What would you say to someone who says, "Yeah, that was needed in the 1700s when there was, you know, enlightenment or then eventually Haskell, but now like everything's set in stone and Yiddish sort of is, you know, it's everything is found out and why do I need to learn Dar Hashem and let me just, you know, learn lumbus or learn Mishnab?" What would you tell people? >> I could not disagree with Immore. That's the exact opposite of what's happening. Um, Ramush Shapiro, my rebi was once called in for center by Rash. Rash was the god of Lador. Rish Shapiro looked up to him as the god of Lador. There's no question about it. He called him in and Rash said to him, I hear you're teaching to beginners in back in the day. Mahar, right? You're teaching all these deep esoteric concepts, the meaning of life and all these things that we never had that what's wrong with teaching them in Europe that's what they did. I grew up we never had a mashaba seda we had a muser seda we learned afternoon seder the last half hour before mar between 6:30 and 7 was a mus and we would learn sharm where we learn we learn those were the classics for that we learned bottom line is is that said to rash there was a window open over there in partic He said he pointed out over there. He says, "I want my mahalak from there and he was pointing to Resla's home and Rash says Desler des he did not hold what Raesa had done that create a revolution." And this is why I was passionate to say that I disagree with you. He felt it was a hero sha and he felt that our generation needed it and foresaw what we see today a depressed generation a generation where people have lost their sin people are going through things by ro and he needed to inject this fuel of sin and joy and that comes through understanding the bigger picture of Yiddish guides. So started and like you mentioned beforehand and all these people that created this this new mahalak for the literacy yeshiva world to learn was definitely um told me um and Gresianfal we were in there together we asked him about to explain what he does and said he suspects that maybe the world is changing and the hasha no longer applies. I'm not exactly sure what he meant by that. >> One sec. Can I take a step back? Why is it a Why do you even need to say it's a what's the problem with learning? like the D Hashem was written just as a band-aid or there's a there's a genuine uh growth intellectual growth that one has when they know they could tell you the inner workings or the symbolisms behind behind ideas. You have people, they're learning. They have no idea. No clue. These are fin. No idea why we're pouring oil over hands. No clue what the is supposed to symbolize. No idea. Why do we need what was the why do we need? Why do we need a Why do those saras get in and not other things with no interest? So I don't why is it why do you need I'm lumping maybe incorrectly into just a what is the symbolism behind behind yishkite behind what we do why we and why we do it why do you need for that shouldn't it be like a a basic layer in yudishkite that should be explored so first of all you're 100% right it should not have to be it should be just a of like any other and I'll prove it to you since the beginning of time it has always been central to our learning. But what happens is before the daffayomi world appeared, people used to skip a so you know my father grew up in Romania. Um he knew my dad knew Nashikim. They would just rush through the agata sections and just learn it superficially. Romesh Shapiro as you know he I learned with him two blot of perko on dreams over three years just to learn how these things work and he would show that you can use the same tools of to understand and agis and that's what he opened up for cl and what happened was is that as Rashak was pointing out that it just became ignored because it wasn't considered necessary but it's a distortion because let's go back let's go back to you mentioned okay Rashi in the Ramban explained and they opened their ideas to is a teaching of how to live your life the Ramban says that safer is the first Musa book of how it's called militar how to live your life. Um I mentioned we mentioned David the Gumar the shinim and then afterwards when the Arizal came he inserted kabala and later on the kidic movement they were supposed to be part of our terra and part of what builds us as human beings. We're 120 and we're asked a quiz and we're supposed to know that includes this of understanding and the becomes behind it. >> [snorts] >> Do you feel as though the people who want to label as esoteric and cabbalistic and swimming in the deep end before you know how to swim in the shallow end? Let's say there's truth to that. Do you think it's become way too broad where you can potter yourself for not knowing basic and paras like basic t and minimal understanding because hey isn't you think that's horrible? So you have Yeah, you're so right. Oh, you're so right. This is a In other words, you got to be careful on both ends. What we've noticed is that Makaba, which is instantly attractive, right? Somebody um wants to understand what Makshaba is in contrast to and Gomorrah, right? You have over here a table, right? It's a beautiful table. You have a cup with water over here. Technically speaking, this is your shab your all you had to do is put out plastic and put on food that's delicious. That's not what your rabbitson does. She's going to put flowers in the middle. She's going to make sure that the napkins match the plates. He's going to make everything is beautiful. Kamar Rashitis is the bread and butter of Judaism. That is what I call how we plug into essence is understanding my ox cing your cow who pays for the aborted fetus right that's what kumar is mind is how we live our lives that is the is the table of bare bones but we need yi is very important to have to make the thing beautiful and that's why mashaba gives everything a breath and a deeper understanding and it just makes it so much more beautiful to live a life as a Jew like you said you shake a you know what you're doing you do a suka you understand what it's all about every mitzvah comes with tin why are we ding for mashia why in the should be passionate about why on earth don't we study sitter more than we do all these things gives to the rhythm of Jewish life then there's the other end okay again okay and this is the point I wanted to make there are people that just they go for the palace and they forget there's a table over there. They take the dessert and they forget the meat and potatoes. And one of my pet peeves, ladies and gentlemen, this is a monistle pet peeve is some people they just, you know, they put out in cure classes. They say, "Let's learn kabala, right?" whatever it is and they take people and um yeah it drives me nuts that my students in the bay they know the 10th spirus before they know the 12 tribes something wrong over here okay this mean they know the seven spuros better than they know the seven dwarfs okay this is what's going on over here so they're already in this whole thing and um I don't know whether you wanted me to go into this but this morphs into the whole sigula culture that is all comes it's a distortion of being able to have the foundations first and then build the yi on the foundations. So what's healthy? What's healthy is is that always the has to be like you mentioned. for the men study of Talmud um and just to know the basics of Jewish life then to make it exciting so you can be passionate about it so you prepared to moisten for it then you have to connect to the you have to connect to the breath and the infinite depth that's where would show that every single word in every single word in has layers upon layers of and every word in the sitter as says lays upon and to to expose yourself to that and suddenly it becomes extremely exciting comes extremely beautiful just tell you a story that happened to me two weeks ago told me how difficult it was for um her to dav I get this question all the time I'm the teacher so you know I wrote a book on for women right >> the art [clears throat] goal sitter for women is based on my rich now girls say to me how come that for you rein is so easy to den and for you for me it's so hard and the first thing I tell her is that because I understand the words I took the time out to understand my sash and my melia and they're not just synonyms each one's a different level of so if You learn these things and you connect to these things. So suddenly feel it becomes so fascinating. I always tell them that yipper is the most boring most tedious day in your life if you don't understand what you're doing. At some point everyone has to sit there and figure out what the avoid is all about. So that it becomes what say okay a becomes the most exciting part of yippa. Nothing is more exciting than in the other when you study what it's all about and understand what you're doing. So why why in our culture unless I'm misreading the culture which is entirely possible that is not the mahalik that's proposed it's all about hala and learning no learning gumar and somehow that will magically transform your yam kiper like you're going to take time to learn the words of of of the sitter of yam kiper you're nuts are you going to learn pure shamless like when are you going to learn that like between which seder are you learning that you know I If you're a Balabas, you only have an hour to learn a day. You better be learning. When are you learning about the the intricacies of Yakob's braha to his sons when he was, you know, which are fabulous and rich and and really meaningful to us and should carry. I don't have time for that. And it's not preached. It's it's all learn. >> You know, in the real pragmatic life, we're both right. Let me tell you how it works. Honestly, for most teens most of the time, if they're in a good home, in a good environment, you're right. Just teach them rashi the way it's supposed to be. I've also found that younger kids, they don't really have the emotional breath to really appreciate. It's kind of wasted on them. Somewhere in your 20s, you find that you need more. And um everyone goes through this I don't know how to say it nicely. They go through this thing where they need to the same point where you stop learning and you suddenly notice like duh there's all ps of shots I never saw before. First time you learn brahos and you learn I don't know kachen whatever it may be at the same time you suddenly should make a seder on shabas to learn the para like you mentioned first make sure you know the rashis next you learn the romans afterwards whatever floats your boat at some point or other you switch into and learn the sodics and the and until eventually you see this just this the most exciting thing ever how much time Should you spend it? I don't know a one to nine ratio. 10% of your time should be but 90% should be on on taste. That 10% like salad said okay that's the that's the top. It's the spice that makes the whole soup taste good. So I want to talk about Risha for a little bit. Can you explain to people who are unfamiliar or who are not nearly as familiar as you are who Ray was what his impact on the world is? Because a lot of people are impacted by him and don't even realize that they're impacted by him because they're impacted either by Tidim or by people who are Telmid who are closet talid secret tidim. Can you explain who he was and sort of the revolution that he started? I wrote a book about this. [laughter] Not that I'm self-promoting whatever. This is exactly what I wanted from my book was to bring Misha to the world that did not know him and to wet their appetite like in this for me. He beautifully wrote that the hope is that reading man's book will give you a yearning to learnish terror for real and with that all the other great people that you know and all the other people that wrote in that style the essence of who he was was a tomid of two people by the way I'm generalizing because there's somebody out there I'm scared is going to be at my throat. I'm making things very simple. He had two rebris and Rodesla. The Brisco is what built his eternal world. Briskov was made him um the most mas person that I knew where he would learn up the sugur and find new in chauffeur that no one else has. Briskarov is what created his incredible inner power to be layers upon layers of depth in everything that he does. But Rovestler gave him that passion that was his central ed engine that we have to be paranoid in a healthy way today. You always have to add that paranoid about what's happening to Israel. And that I think is the main message that Raisha wanted from his. The moment you wake up, the moment you go to sleep, ask yourself, right? Alpha means earth. Earth is where you plant seeds. You put on this world to be able to empower the people around you and always ask yourself, can I do more? Can I do more for can I do more to take away their pain? Can I make more to mak people? Um, this was something that was so passionate for him. When he would send someone out to America to open up a cure center, he would literally cry and he would scream out and said every day there are train loads of Jewish namas going to Avitz every single day and we see it. How can people in Kurup sleep? No, they have to sleep. They can't reparent like Moses. But how can they sleep when we know that the vast majority of young Jewish men and women in this country believe that there's a genocide in Palestine. The vast majority of young men and women who are Jewish New York tomorrow are going to vote for whatever is called Maldani. [snorts] What's going on over here? This should bother you to your call. And Risha tried to transmit that passion to all his tamid to take care about the claw. He would send everybody out as much as he could. The moment that they're ready, he would send them out. The moment that he felt that they had finished their self-growth, he would encourage them to go and shake up the world. He never really forgave me for coming back from Memphis. He told I should stay there. It was the only time in my life that I really did not listen to him. you know, I became in Memphis. Before that, I was just he felt I should continue doing what I was doing over there. He even warned me that terrible things would happen if I left and they did. [snorts] And it was just a crazy thing. It was a crazy thing. He did this to everyone, sending them to wherever he felt that he could wake up Jews. He had a shittita that whenever there's tension, that's where you should go. when South Africa had their big revolution. He sent his son to South Africa. He was a big fan of of going to Russia, Ukraine. He felt those places people are thinking because there's so much going on. I was hoping that Sima two years ago would cause people to think and to change and the cure of movement should have a new flowering. [snorts] I'm not seeing it. I'm not seeing it at all. which is no end of frustration for me. I cannot understand. >> Can you explain because from the way the media presents in the newspapers and the magazines, you would think that Mashiach is mamash here because everyone is from because you see pictures of people hugging suy and putting on fillin and then crates and truckloads of fillin are being distributed to people are lining up. So what do you mean that that you don't see the the the k of movement that got inspired? It's a numbers game. There's definitely barm aur we've seen a lot of beautiful things happening and the cure workers that work so hard they still manage to squeeze every year two or three more people that are shi shabas but it's a number game because every person that they get there's another thousand that they don't get [snorts] and um the fact is I taught a few days ago in the bay shalam every person I teach there is precious But the numbers and I'm not blaming the V and I'm not blaming the Macarim. It's pathetic. It's minuscule. It's not even it's not you know the college campus kids are not coming there because they're saying well what is anti-semitism? Why don't they wake up and say I need to explore and figure out what my Yiddish is all about. It's just not happening. [snorts] And and I'm not saying that there's no gazer on this generation. Maybe there is. I'm saying that each person should ask themselves, can I do more? Each person should feel passionate. Is there a possibility I can affect my coworker? Is there a possibility that I can talk to my second cousin who asked me questions about what it means to be and to do more? What you're describing is just a little trickle. The whole revolution that happened to Israel after Sinister at the end of the day it was there but it was still minuscule compared to what was left over. Do you feel as though the amount of money and resources and time and emotional energy put on fighting anti-semitism and every congressman who put some tweet some email that had a little bit of anti-semitism and it was attacked and it was fought and it's it looking back it seems like so many resources were put into this PR battle of we are genocide we're not and maybe some of those funds or resources could have been diverted towards actual cure. Do you feel as though that could have changed things? >> Hello, thank you for asking me that. I really appreciate it because the last two years like a broken record. I've been saying this to anyone that could hear me, including my colleagues in Mishban magazine. Um, I think it's a catastrophe about how the word anti-semitism is being spun and being explained and how to understand what's truly happening over here. >> [snorts] >> Um, everyone is trying to understand using the dynamics, social dynamics to understand the cause of anti-semitism. Literally one hour ago, one hour ago, I was in someone's home two hours ago at someone's home and they explained to me, "Oh, Candace Owens, the reason why she became such a deep anti-semite is because she married this type of Christian and she got this kind of, you know, oldfashioned Christian theology with Jews of the devil, etc., etc., etc. Zanl this got nothing to do what's really happening started a war on terror when he started the war I said he started it he told kamas this is the time for you to show the world that the IDF when I say no they're useless when I say yes they will do miracles that no one else can ever explain it's all about me what happened was talking to his people and saying wake up terror is the key to everything. We need to get back to terror and to the terror. It happened on Shabas. All these things was Hashem talking to us and if you need the proof he ended the war in terms of the hostage coming back on Arab just like two years you need to be in that bar and then this time it wasn't it was Trump that's the way it works but these are all poems I'm so glad you asked me this because I want the whole world to know this because of anti Anti-semitism is a dialogue between and Israel. The cause of anti-semitism has many many subg genres but there's two basic causes. One is what talks about correctly is that Israel is always we will always have double standards towards the Jews. This is because we are as Hitler correctly said are the conscience of the world. This is one dimension. But there's another dimension. Yeah. There's another dimension reel and that is in parasmos. the medish brings down that clay started assimilating into Egyptian into the Egyptian culture and the kosh saw that we started to become like our host country and then the bar says and I'm quoting from the medish and it's aimb took the average Egyptian means and he artificially took the of the Egyptian and flipped it around to hate the Jew. Those words were written with were in Egypt and they are in 100% full force today. Nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. Every single free Palestine and I had four free Palestines in Europe in four different cities this summer. A little bit traveling and everyone free Palestines me. And [snorts] you know my initial reaction is says we're working on it. We're trying our best, but seriously, when someone screams to me, free Palestine, what am I supposed to do? Is to remember where we used to scream. When your enemies come out against you, right? Is talking to me. It's unnatural that suddenly everyone hates us. People have to start wake up and smell the coffee. If you're hated by the people in Iceland and in Finland where they've never seen a Jew, when everything is when countries that were so pro-Israeli flip over, we mentioned Candace Owens. There's thousands of them out there and the right and the left. Why does my from friends have to go explain there's a right-wing phenomenon, there's a leftwing phenomena, there is a bar phenomenon telling wake up. Anti-semitism is the way wants us to greet Msiah that we have to realize that we're that we are a nation that does not belong in this world. We're not part of this world. We're not connected to our host countries and we have to go back to our roots and remember what it means and specifically what it means. Those are things that we need to work on more than anything else in this world. And this goes back to your question about Shapiro. I am convinced that this last two years he would have been pushing all of his toidum to go full out to try and scream shabas. These are the things that Kesh Bar was telling us to try and wake up people and this is the this is the focus. Now I don't want to be misqued because I actively encourage NCSY. I'm senior educator for NCSY. I think for them to do what's called Israel advocacy. I believe strongly that all my students next Shabas I'm going to be with all of Launch. I'm going to be with public school kids. I'm going to tell them to explain to the go around them exactly why what they're saying is a lie and what's really happening in Israel and I'll give them the tools to do so on a purely secular narrative. Oh, I'm an or hypocrite. No, I'm not a hypocrite because my goal is not that my secular not yet from students of NCSY should change the mind of the guy. It's so they should change the mind of themselves. start to think when they're explaining the uniqueness of the Jewish people and how we have the most moral army and how we literally are the most beautiful people in the world, it should start to affect themselves and maybe they'll come to Ducha. Main reason for Israeli advocacy is that the person giving it over should wake up and realize talking to us. You don't think it runs the risk of like promoting a a gullless mindset victimhood where we need to prove ourself and we need to show that we're we are like everyone else where I people are advocating and it's it isn't it slightly difficult to to discern what the purpose is and especially when Jews see big big Jewish organizations who are doing it in Washington and Congress and are sending letters which are all fabulous, but it so easily looks like we need to assert our place amongst our communities and why are we being treated differently and we need to fix the PR problem. >> It's going to happen anyhow. >> We Jews feel the need to explain ourselves to people. The problem is is that with all that explaining ourselves to the people, we've forgotten the central narrative that Hashem is talking to us. I'm going to give you example. the shabas. People ask me about um why is it that the don't send their sons to the army? It's a topic I don't like to talk about mainly because it's too complex to explain how at the same time we love, we adore, we put our soldiers on a pedestal and the same time we see terror in a totally different dimension. But what I do say and normally it takes me 30 seconds to say this and it immediately refocuses the conversation. I say I can't really talk to you unless we have a common page that we're we're on. And I asked them what resonates more with you. Is kamas the problem and the IDF is the solution or is kamas the punishment and is the problem? If the second version resonates with you then we can talk because the punishment means that he's using as a stick. So really is the centerpiece of the narrative what's happening over here and it changes a whole way of thinking. What does the bar want from us? So that is what I think needs to change. We need to bring central to the narrative anti-semitism is because we have assimilated into a culture around us both on a practical level and also in a mindset. We think goes and this is what Misha was begging people to start to think through a terror viewpoint to understand that we're in gishmal and this was predicted 2,000 years ago and the climax of includes with and includes with I don't like to use the phrase but which is just another way of saying the enemy from within everything is happening exactly the way it's supposed to The curtain is coming down in Jewish history and Mush Shapiro if he was alive today would say to us to us what are you doing to bring in our brothers and sisters so when the curtain comes down they'll be on the right side. So in conclusion, what would you say to all the viewers out there? A tip with the full force of of Mosha behind you to stay on fire in today's day and age to walk through the country they live in, the streets, the workplaces that they're in, and stay as a passionate yid even in the crazy worlds we live in. What would you say to such people? I mentioned beforehand, let's just assume that people were talking about dishwan that when we finish, which is our time out with Hashem and we're about to go out into the big wide walls, the last thing we say is Hashem. First thing is make sure I speak I don't say I say nice things to people. I use the power of my speech correctly. Emilas we say the words my essence should be earth should empower people around me means every single person that I meet and we don't live in an island we live in a context so we have our family we have our colleagues we have our neighbors we have people that we meet when we travel because bar is saying to you can you be a positive influence in their lives. Can you be a light in their darkness? Can you smile and compliment people who are going through stress and going through anxiety? This is the call of our era. This is what we have to focus on. That's what it's all about. So when Mashiach comes, we can say we were there. We tried our best for you. This is what it's all about. Wow. Amazing. Rabbi Niss, thank you very much for joining the Judaism for the honor. I'm sorry if I got too worked up at the end. >> At all. Not at all. Kazak.