Judaism Without Apologizing - Episode 2 - Reb Yitzchak Breitowitz

Hi everyone, it's Hila Eisenberg here back with another episode of Judaism without apologizing. This episode I had the honor in interviewing the great Rabbutak Bidowitz, someone whose wisdom and humility and piercing hashkuffic clarity has touched hundreds of thousands of people around the world. Rab Bowitz is a Musma of Yeshiva Sur and a Talmud of Reb Rutderman. And interestingly enough, he is a graduate of Harvard Law School as well as a former law professor at the University of Maryland before shifting into full-time Rabonus where he was a RV for a long time in Silver Spring, Maryland. He eventually moved to where he is now a senior magir and lecture at Arsame where he teaches Gimara and philosophy and ethics. sort of a rare blend of depth and warmth and razor sharp insight. And he also hosts probably the most watched hashkafic question answer session in the entire Jewish world. And whether he's discussing complex halic issues or philosophical questions or the practical struggles of everyday Jewish life, Ram Bowitz brings a voice of authenticity and compassion and unwavering dedication to Torah truth. And we had a fascinating slightly politically incorrect discussion about a wide variety of topics including whether or not more people should be doing Kirv. We talked about Zionism. We talked about censorship of podcasts. And I think you're really going to quite find it quite thoughtprovoking. So without further ado, let's dive into a discussion with one of Torah Judaism's greatest minds, Rivets Bridowitis. In a world where everyone seems to have not just a microphone but a megaphone, the voices of our gadim or raanim and Russia yeshiva far too often seem to get lost in the noise. This podcast is here to change that. I'm your host Hillel Eisenberg. Join me as we sit down with our nation's leaders as they address the Ashkafic challenges that matter most without the fluff and without the drama, with truth that doesn't flinch. Buckle up, cuz this isn't your typical podcast. This is Judaism without apologizing. Rabbi Brightitz, it's an honor and a privilege and a pleasure that you are on the Judaism without apologizing podcast. It is Thank you. Great. It's a great title and I appreciate it. I wanna I want to dive right in. I think your your basic story is pretty well known and I want to dive right into to asking some questions. I think that you have been at the forefront of answering hashkuffic questions, answering m millions maybe at this point in your lifetime, perhaps answering more hashkuffic questions than any single Jew in the world at this point. So I think it's appropriate to start with that topic of the concept of hashkuffa and we live in a world where there are a million opinions that fly everywhere and everyone has a podcast and everyone writes blogs and articles and unlike two 300 years ago where you could have someone in the hoscala movement a reformer write an article. Okay, so you have Rab Shamun Rafo Hersh will counter with an article of his own, but we live in an age where any everyone's h has a fancier podcast than the next. Everyone's got a microphone and a megaphone and the Rabundance sort of are are relegated towards the technological age of the of the 1700s and it's difficult for their voices to get out. So my question to you is do you think that we are at a point in time where it's it's a confusing hashik time where the rabban and the rash the need to express their opinions perhaps louder than they than they did in previous generations. As Charles Dickens said in a um a tale of two cities, it's the best of times, it's the worst of times. I mean on one hand I I view the internet as a blessing in many many ways in terms of the dissemination of Torah uh in orame itself. So many of my shimm and really other shore are available for you know thousands of people to see theoretically millions of people to see. So on one hand the accessibility of Torah thoughts is actually a great blessing uh but at the same time it has great many many great disadvantages. the information overload. There is so much stuff out there and a lot of it is not authentic. A lot of it is kafira. A lot of it is a courses. Uh a lot of it is just worthless. Uh there's good stuff and bad stuff. And uh a lot of times the truthful voices can get drowned in the plethora of all of the other stuff that's out there. Uh so that creates a tremendous burden on the consumer to be able to be mafin ben kodes or worse and it does create I think a certain responsibility on the part of Russia yeshiva on the part of bal hashkafa on the part of bal misora uh to find some type of avenue in which there could be a greater greater clarity of what a Torah perspective is now again I'm the first one to say that The concept of uh Torah perspective is not monolithic. Within the framework of Torah, there are many many legitimate shitos. And I don't mean to say at all that there's only one correct answer uh to any given question. Nevertheless, there are lines that are drawn in the sand. There are red lines between EMS and Sheckcher. And unfortunately, those lines are getting blurred. Now the problem is of course that uh rash shivas andim uh don't have the time or the inclination to spend their whole time perusing the internet or doing podcasts or or or whatever whatever it is and many are not technologically savvy in any event. So part of the job of people like you is to try to identify mechanisms by which uh some type of emistic dashra could somehow be uh more available more accessible uh to a general public that is looking for some type of guidance in very important Tashkuffic matters. Do you think podcasts or musical albums should need hoskamos? Meaning you have a guy, he sits in a base medish for two decades. He puts out a 12page contress on babakama and he has 13 huskas and you have an influencer who has a podcast with 600,000 followers saying anything they want to about every topic under the sun with and we don't bat an eyelash in consuming it. Do do you think there should be some sort of systemized standard where this singer singing topics about hashkafa and amuna and life or this podcast delving into and these are from well-meaning people. In no way am I saying they're not well-meaning but they're not rooted in Torah. They're not learning in the base major for for three decades. is should there be some sort of system where there's a hash hashama a a heer given we put hashim on jelly beans but when it comes to our hashkafa we seem to be sort of you know in the marketplace on our own do you think that's like communist Russia or we should have some form of censorship that's a very very tough question I mean in many many ways um I am against censorship to a large degree uh I could mention podcasts for example that sometimes we'll have very very controversial guests uh not for the purpose of espousing their hashkappa but that the from people should be aware of what's going on there etc for example sometimes uh they may interview an off the derk you know bent a former bent tyra who went off the derek now yeah the guy might be an epicurus or a covert but there may be something useful to understand the dynamics of what makes a person go off the derek. So proceed with caution, but I wouldn't automatically be in favor of total censorship. Um, so I don't think uh I would encourage, you know, active rabbitic oversight as a formal matter. Uh, I think a podcaster should have a huskama on his own shamayim so to speak. Meaning if a if if you write a say or somebody writes a book in English or Hebrew, whatever it is, there'll be a hashama. Now a has typically maybe I shouldn't say this does not mean that the muscum read every single page of the book very often a hashama means a person went over the book generally and a person may know the author and can affirm that the author is a knowledgeable and responsible Ben or boss Torah who is able to communicate Torah ideas in a good way. I could imagine that that type of system ought to exist for a podcast. Somebody ought to get at least one reputable rabbi or who can say this guy is not an apicorus and therefore I think what he says may be worthwhile although I cannot necessarily agree with every single thing that he says. Uh I don't think that's too much of a burden and I don't think that would turn into censorship either. Uh so I think censorship would be both a problem of time uh and I think inherently I think there would be very very significant costs with censorship. I mean I don't want to rehash controversial things but you may remember years ago the uh biography of Ravakov of the making of a god which was written by his son who himself was a rash and for a whole variety of reasons that book did get censored and many many people feel including myself that that may have been an unfortunate step in not giving uh the religious world access to information that might be very very useful and helpful in dealing with the struggles of their own lives. So I think censorship per se is often too blunt a weapon to deal with uh kira because I think it'll attack other things as well. It's kind of like a labbotomy where you take healthy brain tissue along with diseased brain tissue and uh no that's not always going to be a good thing but I think I I would think a podcaster should at least have a rabbitical husk that he's considered to be a reliable capable person who generally uh accurately represents a Torah perspective. Do you think there is a growing gap between the hashkafos being taught in yeshivas in seminary and the hashkafos being absorbed or being lived through media of people 10 20 years out of seminary or yeshivas and if there is in fact such a gap who is responsible for closing that gap this is a very very difficult question I mean I mean listen the world of podcast is a very very wide world and uh there are podcasters who are very solidly in the yeshivisha world and I wouldn't necessarily see any great disconnect there and then there are podcasts who represent themselves as orthodox who are very very far from the hashkafas of the yeshiva world uh so uh if the question is is there a disconnect the answer is with respect to some there is with respect to others there is less now Why that's so uh there could be a lot of reasons. Uh one is that within orthodoxy itself. Uh we have the rise of what you might call more left-wing movements uh such as um open orthodoxy which now I think goes by the name modern orthodoxy because modern orthodoxy now goes by the name centrist orthodoxy. whatever the name is uh the hashkafas of Torah which again I'm not here to condemn anybody but but but to simply to note that that type of hashkafa is very very very different than the hashkafas of the yeshiva and the bash yakov so as more and more rabbis from those institutions get pulpit and more and more students are out there who are graduates of these institutions you're going to see more and more and more of a disconnect But the truth of the matter is on the other side of it and here I may get in very very big trouble. Uh some of it is actually a healthy process of maturation. Meaning as one grows up and one deals with family, one has a family and one deals with the outside world, one understands that although the core of their beliefs and the core of their hashkafos is the misura that we got in yeshiva, but it has to be I'm using dangerous words here, but it does have to be modified and applied to scenarios that are very very different than the world of the issue. Shiva and that's going to create a certain disconnect uh talking about how to integrate a working life with learning etc. Uh so as I say so one factor is the left-wing movements. Uh the other factor is as people leave yeshiva they are dealing with different types of experiences that are different than they faced in the more cloistered world of the yeshiva. A third phenomenon is uh the need to deal with off the derek people. meaning to say there are brooke I'm not going to call it a tremendous number but there is a significant number of orthodox people not only balichua but even FFPs and even people who have learned in co-le who go off the derek in various ways and uh part of the challenge is to try to do things that can help them bring them back and sometimes uh the mahalim that they got in yeshiva are are not necessarily ally going to be the mahalim that are going to speak to them. And the big challenge that we have is can we develop mahalim that are still faithful to the messiah that are still based on Torah sources that are affirming of the amuna but at the same time in a certain language and terminology that can be understood and accepted uh to people who might reject might have rejected the way it was presented in the yeshiva world. I mean one example would be how you deal with conflicts of science and religion. How do you deal with these issues like evolution? How do you deal with the age of the earth? It's one thing you went to e yeshiva that simply told you evolution is trafe and anyone that says the world is more than 57 now 85 years is an apicorus and that's a mahalik that maybe a high school student can just hear. problem is as you get more scientifically sophisticated the questions become more acute. Now there may be different mahalim within the messiah how to address it and the yeshiva world tended to choose a particular mahal within the messiah but sometimes we may have to revive other mahalim again I'm just talking out loud so to speak I'm not here to issue any any final pronouncements but I'm just giving various reasons why there may be a little bit of a disconnect between the Torah hashkafos of the uh of the internet of cyerspace versus the pure torahkas of of of the yeshiva world. I also want to mention too another aspect and that's kabala uh in the traditional lit yeshiva world. Um so we emphasized Gomorrah and halaka and and muser uh but even authenticas had very very little role. Uh and certainly of kabala were not talked about uh today and really the vil nagon predicted at the not notas but in terms of um cabala as we approach msiach the light of cabala will be more learned and more accessible to people in various ways. So as a result uh part of the way things were taught 20 30 40 years ago are not necessarily uh going to be the way things are going to be taught today because different types of ideas come to the forefront but that's been the history of Israel I mean in theory if somebody comes up with a totally new idea uh that's bad I mean how can you have a totally new idea but what happens in Yiddish kite is that everything is there but sometimes certain ideas recede into the background other ideas come to the forefront other times uh a different process takes place in the reverse so that I think is what we see with podcasts and and um various other ways of communicating information very interesting so I'm I want to pivot to another topic in the 1700s I think historians estimate that around 90% of Jews were either religious or traditional. And I think the complete opposite is true now with around 90% of Jews worldwide being irreligious and the assimilation rate around the world is reaching astronomical numbers. So my first question is what would you say caused this problem and should the typical religious Jew care about this problem or do anything about this problem or even think about this problem? It is an interesting phenomenon and again it's something that's very very tragic that we often don't think about when Napoleon uh was invading Russia and uh Napoleon really promised that the Jews would be liberated from anti-semitic restrictions the fall of the ghetto walls etc. So many many people were praying that Napoleon should be manak over the over Russia because that would be much better for the Jews. The Balatana said, "As oppressive as thesar was, the Jews will do better in Russia than they'll do under Napoleon." Because it's precisely when Jews are not given civil rights and they're not given access to secular education and they're not given access to assimilate with the non-Jewish world that they turn their kos inward. In many many ways, as difficult as this is, this is kind of a hidden blessing of anti-semitism. Robert himself said it was easier to be Jewish in Siberia than suburbia. Uh so in many many ways what has called a precipitous decline in spirituality was the fact that Jews were liberated from the ghetto. I mean 300 years ago if you are a very very intelligent Jew uh young man uh you could not go by and large I'm simplifying a little bit but generally speaking you could not go to university. you could not go to medical school. Again, there were exceptions even then. So, your co-host were directed into Lima Tora. There was literally no other avenue for you to go to. Uh but once we have all of these opportunities opening up, so now a bright person says, why should I be aim and live in poverty? I could be a lawyer, doctor, and make a good living and be respected among the etc. So I would have to say that a lot of the precipitous ureida in the religiosity of Kali Israel came in the aftermath of the French revolution and the Napoleonic wars the 19th century essentially where the ghetto was collapsing and when the ghetto collapsed uh like we saw cilantro once gave a mushel it was like wild horses that are simply released from the carriage and they're going downhill there's no way to stop them till they hit That's why he thought he could do Kira in Germany more than in Poland and Russia because Germany, he says the Yidden had already hit bottom with the reform movement. Uh Poland and Russia, they were still wild horses going down uh going down the hill. Now, should Jews be concerned about this? Well, you know, it's interesting that um if you would have asked the question 50, 60 years ago, maybe uh 70 years ago, many would have said that there's nothing we can do about it. Unfortunately, we have to write off 70 80 85% of Kali Israel and we have to concentrate on the Sha Pla, the faithful remnant that remains stark. But I think we've discovered uh with institutions like or like a uh many institutions like that that there is a thirst out there. There is a pintid that there is a spark of Judaism even among people who have been removed from Torah for many many generations. And as a result, for us to simply write them off and not care would show a callousness, would show an indifference, would show a lack of a Israel. And as the Rambam says, it's also a lack of aas Hashem. Because if you truly love Hashem, you're not going to let Hashem's children wander away because how does a parent feel? You tell a child, you tell a parent that had 10 children who lost eight of their children that, well, don't feel so bad. you have two of your kids left. Well, what about the eight the eight out of 10 that aren't there? So, you know, uh in Orsame just a few months ago, we lost our our beloved Rashiva, the founder of Orsame, Rav Schiller, Zol. and uh he with Rav Noah Weinberg and Rav Mandal Weinbach and Rav Yakov Rosenberg uh they did they were visionaries in the sense that now a thing that is so accepted in Kali Israel to create a Torah education framework of Jewish outreach to the unaffiliated. Well, 50, 60 years ago, this was a bizarre idea that many, many people did not accept. And I think Barack Hashem uh were trying to come to the plate and deal with it. Uh and again, there's so much more to do. With all of the successes of the Baltruva movement, it's still only a drop in the bucket. So, there's much much more that we have to do. My follow-up question to you is that would you say even despite the tremendous success almost unprecedented success that the Baltuba movement and Asian arsame etc have had in the last 50 60 years I would throw fryeld in there the the typical I'm I live in America I learn in in a large large ish that has 10,000 bakram in it or yungalite no one does kir no one has I shouldn't say no very very very few people have a kuso once a week with someone on the phone you don't have to see them you don't have to go to their house you don't have to meet their wife it's very taboo it's not on the forefront and something as simple I know in in erit was very adamant that every single person in panovich should have an hour kuso once a week with an unaffiliated person but the for whatever reason in in in America either felt not that way or never spoke about it. And the current situation in America is certainly an indifference at best or a laziness at the at the least. And my question to you is, is this good? I mean, there's obviously tremendous focus on lie, which is fantastic. My question is, does there need to be a a a heightened focus on Kira and many many many thousands of people would benefit from a one hour a week learning on the phone but the Rabanam and the Rashish Shiva at least in America do not stress that whatsoever. Well, you know, it is very interesting and I remember when I was in yeshiva many many years ago uh there was uh a letter from Rabinstein in which he talked about the idea of mser bisman that just as a person gives 10% of their uh income to stuck a bentra should give 10% of his learning time towards kiraikim to bring people to yoskite. So this was a letter that I believe was issued already in the late 1960s or at least the early the early 70s. So I think it was recognized and the truth is if I assume the issue you're talking about is Lakewood right that that base metal. Yeah. I I mean the truth of the matter is I don't know I I mean you're there so you know better than me but I hear of numerous different types of outreach initiatives that Tomum or certainly graduates of base medaya do. I mean we have the community kolim throughout the United States uh that in addition to two learning sedarim do have active outreach programs. See Raarin's cutler's hashkafa overall was the famous hashkafa of the overflowing kdishkap. In other words, Raarin felt instead of telling a bentra go out and be mariff raarin had the shittita that learn and fill yourself up with tyra till there's so much that's in you that mima it overflows onto onto others and I have to say that the emmesis that's a hashkaf that I myself subscribe to I wouldn't tell a guy first year base medish to go out you know and in kira of so what Ravaran said is very wise and very very true. Uh but but at some point you're correct the guy's been learning for for a long time. Uh so nobody is telling him go out and join as or stay in the basement or stay in the kyo but find some way find some in which you can also help a fellow a fellow Jew become close to a kadesh. So it may very well be that what's going on here is not necessarily indifference but they simply don't know what to do and how to do it. So if perhaps within the yeshiva world different yeshivas could have tier of coordinators like shatanim people who can kind of match up and offer opportunities even if it's a a shabas meal uh or learning one hour a week I think more people would take it. A lot of people really do want to help but you know they just don't know what to do. uh they and they also figure that oh in order for me to do kirav I have to uh give all of the tutumim about uh evolution or age of the earth or or what or proofs for god but people and people don't want to do that because you're you know bentra typically does not for right or for wrong that's another question typically does not get that involved in those questions so the one message I want to give is don't think that that's the only thing that matters yeah uh those of us in We got to do that stuff. That kind of goes with the job. But you know a lot of the ways you're mar of a person is by warmth is by friendship is by showing hospitality by showing them the sweetness of Tyra the nas of Tyra and yeah uh not for everybody but for many many people just learning a lot of bakama uh with the shaka betaria is going to be so fascinating and eye openening for them. So I think the bent tyra needs to understand that they don't necessarily have to go beyond their comfort level in order to connect to someone. Uh so I think if they would if they wouldn't have that fear that they're going to have to answer you know how does the Torah deal with evolution or or something I think many more people would be actually willing to get involved and we need to increase that for sure. So some people make the argument they go even one step further from ribbarin and they say that learning tyra in and of itself is the biggest to be macar of someone and I could be learning in my or in Brooklyn or in Lakewood and automatically somehow metaphysically someone in San Jose will become more inspired. So my question is first of all is this true? And second of all, is the fact that there's a 90% assimilation rate or something like that, does that mean that it's not true? Is that indicative that this is incorrect? Or is that perhaps indicative that the limitra that we're doing is is maybe perhaps not as good or holy? Well, yeah. There's a famous statement attributed to the where he says the intensity of the learning in Ren affects the sneas of the fashions in Paris. meaning there's kind of a metaphysical ripple effect of the kaduca satyra that comes into the world that somehow lifts up uh the belt to a certain point. So yeah, I I do believe it is true meaning uh brings kaduca into the world. On the other hand, you obviously see that it's not taking us as far as we need to go. Right? But even the didn't say you learn ty roden the guy in Paris will be a shabas the said the the skirts will be a quarter inch lower you know now there's there is a ripple effect but the ripple effect is can be attenuated it could be relatively weak and I think we're mv to engage the same way we engage in ishtadlas for pasa or ishadus in going to a doctor for medical treatment even though it all comes from hashem so cure involves a certain certain amount of a certain amount of of caring a certain amount of uh so I think everything is true the learning brings kaduja into the belt but we then have to augment it by actually reaching out to people that would be part of the almost uh that you need to open up the senor of braha in many many areas is it safe to say or or maybe unsafe to say that someone could go through his whole life learning and then go up to Shmayim and be loa because he had six cousins who were unaffiliated who he never really reached out to or he could have picked up a phone and and made some sort of initiation and losa I I think is no less referring to the nishama that it is to the gof and if this is the case should this be publicized just to save innocent and Jews for a very good point. Many in fact say explicitly that part of the of trying to bear of someone to is because uh in in a way uh sinning can even be worse than dying in some ways. So when we uh do not stop people from sinning, it's as if we're not saved. we're we're we're we're indifferent to them killing themselves. uh so I I I think uh it should be talked about I hope at maybe on a GA convention or various other forums but again I'm a little reluctant to talk about this as a an absolute on everybody because I think in many many ways uh people do have different tough kedum in life meaning I think everybody can do something and the fact that you can't be full-time kira maybe you're not supposed to be full-time kov you you know maybe your main toughk is the base medish or your family your parnasa whatever it might be everybody can do something uh but as I say I I don't want to be misal in any way at all of the importance of of solid liatur uh both because of idea that eventually you'll be able to be a bigger mashpa and's idea that it brings kaduca into the world so I'm not going to sit and tell a guy in kyo said you know you're Ira every second that you're not going out and being mar. But I would say that you need to look out a little bit and see what is going on in the Jewish world and ask yourself if there's something you can do even if it's small because uh every small gesture does help uh even if you reach only one person I'll say it's not a numbers game every Jew is a world every Jew is a universe And you if you could bring another Jew to Tyra and then of course it's not just that Jew but the ripple effects his wife his children his grandchildren etc. All of that becomes your writes way before there was a movement or a that one has to understand if you're a person to all of the mitzvos that their family does atos becomes your mitzvah. He says a no. What what that what that is the tremendous tremendous olabar the tremendous that never stops until the end of end of time. So I guess the challenge always is that we we don't want to god forbid we don't want to diminish the of but I think within the framework of learning that there is more that can be done to be macar people as well. one hour a week messer and man shabas guest but again as I say um you I think you portray it a little more negatively than I would have portrayed it but again as I say I I don't know I'm not there so I'll have to rely on you so here's another question there seems to be a lot of ballet chuva out there and I know you work with a lot of balchuva there seems to be at least in America a lot of balich chuva with nowhere to go and they feel sort of like outcasts in their own communities. Uh this is a huge huge huge problem. Uh and uh this is even given a name in the profession. This is called like the problem of second stage k meaning the bala yeshivos or whatever chappels uh do a very excellent do a very excellent job taking the non shr shabas sky making them from uhem so we have another notch on our belt or or what whatever it would be but then uh the person goes back uh the person does not necessarily have that much family reports gets married and his wife may be in the same situation and they're no longer in a yeshiva setting and it sometimes may be very difficult for them to feel comfortable in a community of uh in a well-established from community uh where there's family connections and the like and I have to say that sometimes there's even some bitterness attached to this in which they feel that their yeshivas that were so nurturing and trying to make them from kind who forgets about them once they're from we then go on to the next person to try to make them from. So it is a very very serious issue. Uh in fact Raf Schiller Zatal used to say that the sign of success for it would be that you wouldn't know he's a bala meaning to say that the uh transformation into a bentora is so complete that they fit in. They fit in just like any other uh benyra. So in truth, yeseshv, in truth, uh there are many many many baluva who have kind of fully integrated into the froom community and they're doing fine. Meaning I don't want to paint this as a crisis in which every balcha feels alienated or not part of a community. But the the fact that there are brashem many successes does not negate the fact that there are some who have much greater difficulty in making the adjustments. So the question would be this and I'm really really I'm really thinking out loud more than giving an answer. Is it worthwhile to create separate institutions meaning separate bate medish for the alumni of a given kira of yeshiva or for bali chuba generally create special minyanim special programs uh in which they would feel comfortable they would be with people with similar backgrounds and that would be a much more comfortable environment or he again I'm thinking out loud he maybe that's giving giving them a crutch in which they'll never learn to walk if they can't be integrated into the broader community. This is very similar to a problem of aliyah and erit Israel. if I could switch gears for a moment that if you're an American or an Anglo speakeraker coming to Erit Israel uh and it's a totally new environment uh is it better to send your kid to an all English-speaking in which it'll be familiar and Americanlike and they'll play basketball during recess or leak you want to raise your child in Israel they should get acculturated to the norms of Israeli religious society which is very very different so it's kind of a similar a similar problem. I I see the mileus in both ways. I certainly see how many guys will be much more comfortable in a type of minion of people who have gone through similar experiences. Now one solution would be uh and this is an on raanim that Rabanim should create schoss that maybe foster an integration of both types. Meaning uh create a shaw in which baluva are welcome in which FFBs from from births are welcome. Create events uh both separate events for different groupings and events in which people uh work together. And I think over time as the barriers collapse and as people get to know each other better so some of the fear and some of the hostility uh can uh can vanish. So this would be an aaras on synagogue rabbis to create welcoming environments uh for baluva. And I would also say too there's a big aas on the yeshivos themselves that they have to deal with their alumni. uh you know yeshiva like has been around for more than 50 years. A Torah has been around nearly that long. Uh there's quite a lot of alumni. The question is what are we doing for them? Are we staying in touch with them? Uh is it that once they leave that's it we're on to the next person or we need to still maintain that that cases and I think there needs to be a lot more alumni programming than perhaps there there is. What would you say to a Balachuva that has enormous challenges in their lives and begins to feel a little bit of resentment towards Hashem because hey, look at all the sacrifices I made for you and now this is what I get. I get a life where I'm estranged from my family or I don't have the financial backing that my parents originally promised me or whatever the challenge may be. Yeah. So first I I want to go backwards a little bit and that is I I think one of the big problems that we sometimes have in in Kira programming is we overpromise uh we kind of tell the guy you become from you'll have a wonderful marriage and wonderful kids and your parents will love you and admire you etc etc etc and then when these things don't happen there's be there's a lot of resentments a lot of anger uh people feel they were lied to and the like. Um, so I think it's important number one not to oversell your product. Meaning Torah is wonderful. Torah is Torah gives you a connection to the it does not automatically guarantee that you're going to have an easy life in this world. Uh life does have challenges and part of a good is not to make believe there's not going to be challenges but to discuss them and try to give a person coping strategies that when things are not perfect what do you do plus of course being available for them as they go through as they go through a a crisis. Uh the other thing that's important to stress is that uh the baluva it's very important in a chuva process to maintain as far as possible a good relationship with parents and non-religious family. Uh that it's not always possible. I understand that. But to whatever degree possible this this situation shouldn't arise in which you're estranged from your parents. Why would you be estranged from your parents? Uh if you treat your parents with respect and they see that you're a mench and they see that you're a caring person, then by and large, most of the time, again, not all the time, most of the time, they're going to go along with it. They're going to accept it. They're going to admire you. So my two points before the the person is in crisis is number one don't oversell your product by uh by making these representations uh that are just not polyianish representations and number two uh try to focus on the importance of maintaining a good family relationship uh and don't allow the frunkai to create walls and barriers. Now once the person is in a situation where they're facing crisis where they're facing real real problems. So once again um the role of the rabbi the role of the rebi uh the role of the spiritual mashpia is to provide number one empathy compassion. Don't don't delegitimate uh the pain that the person feels. Uh and then talk about the practical things that can be done. I think one should try to have a very practical orientation. What can we do to make this better? Be basim and in many many ways if a person feels that somebody cares that just makes it easier that's called no say be old. I carry the yolk with somebody that makes the yolk lighter for the person that's bearing it. I heard you talk recently about your adoption and if it's okay with you, can I ask you some questions about infertility? So my first question is what practicaliz can you give to someone who is waiting years and years to have children? And I don't mean before the intellectual uh I mean the more practical um things that you've seen from other people that have worked or sigula's areas invashem to work on brahos from particular people because everyone obviously is scrambling for something and everyone's trying anything and everything and before the giving up stage before the adop even before the adop consideration of adoption Have you seen, and perhaps you haven't, you just were in your own little cocoon, but perhaps you have seen things that have worked or seen what brought success to other struggling couples in this regard. The technologies that are available for the treatment of of infertility have drastically improved over the years. So as a result the situation today is medically much more promising than it was whatever it is 30 40 years ago and that's a great of a kadesh that obviously the ability to advance in technology ultimately comes from the aster comes from akadesh bor and we have to be very very grateful uh for those uh opportunities uh so uh I think there's a lot available then that was not available now rather that was not available uh then. Uh but one of the points that um I try to make and I in my own life I try to live is that even though having children is a great great great great thing. It's a great joy and it's the first mitzvah of the Tyra and the Nvi says God did not create the world to be desolate. He created it to be inhabited and of course the dream of every parent is of every person who gets married and if you're not married you hope to get married and then have have children of course that's but one has to know that when kazal say that when there's between husband and wife the shina is there that is even if they don't have children one has to know that the relationship of husband and wife is holy, is sacred, is godly even if it for whatever reason does not produce a biological child. And therefore one has to understand that there is something in the marriage itself that is kadesh that has to be nurtured and has to be developed. That's a very hard mindset to absorb because we're so used to the idea that you get married and you have children and for most people that's how it does work but but not always. So as a result therefore you're living on two opposite sides of the fence at the same time. You pray, you davin, you make hish toddlers to have children. And at the same time, you recognize the beauty and depth and holiness of your relationship, even if there are no children. And you can't live your life on hold while you're waiting for something to happen. You have to take every minute that gave you and use it in the best way that you can use it. You can't kind of say well when we have children then we'll really have a family. You have a husband and wife is a family is a family as well. I saying adoption is obviously bringing a child into your home but even if one is not ready for a full-fledged adoption there is foster care which is a you know temporary arrangement. You still are a mak you know you still have a child that you're taking care of. Uh there are things like uh learning with kids uh who don't have a father etc. you know, children of Almanus, taking them to Shaw, meaning there's all sorts of what you might call quai parenting in which a man and a wife, even a a couple can have a certain shikus to being a major factor in a child's life, even if it's not totally their child. And remember say that if you're I sit and I learn with a kid whose father is not alive anymore. I do a subun with the kid say it's he is my child. So one has to be different ways in which they can still contribute to a child's life. How is it expected on a man or a woman who's waiting seven years at this point to have a child not to be jealous of their neighbors? Because there that is an expectation that Tyra does not allow jealousy. Is that a herculean ask? Is that even physically, emotionally possible? A very, very, very hard thing. I remember years ago the old Jewish Observer magazine uh used to uh used to publish open letters. Somebody wanted to bring out a certain issue that someone was behaving a certain way. And I remember that one of these open anonymous letters was uh written by an a woman without children, an infertile woman who complained that her friends are always talking about their kids and don't they realize how much pain that causes me? So, she expressed that pain, but I understand that pain and maybe they should be more sensitive. But I I I I think she was I think ultimately she was wrong. Although I can't judge her. Maybe I would have behaved the same way because what you have to understand is this. This is a a deep thing that's hard to understand. But if if all of Israel is and as the bal says all of our are rooted in anus in Shayim then when any Jew has a it's my if I'm a single person who's want you know who's been going out on and my friend gets a shak first I should be missed. another couple has children when I've been trying so hard with my wife I should be miss and I should train myself even though when I first think this it's not going to be sincere that Hashem gave this bra into the world and you know says our thoughts and our emotions get affected by our actions you Say it enough, you'll come to believe it. I am so happy that they have a child. Another Jew was born into the world. Very hard. It is very hard. I'm ask him. But I think ultimately the Hashem wants us to do is we should be have in the good fortune. Now Simka the writes somewhere that it is much harder to rejoice in somebody else's sim than to feel sorrow for their pain. I feel sar somebody suffers I feel empathy I feel compassion but to rejoice in their simkha that's even a higher madria and that's what we should try to do. Okay. So to pivot to our last uh subject here, I think it's very apppropo to discuss a little bit about arrit especially with the barrage of rockets and uh the ongoing war. Um but I want to clarify certain things that I think a lot of people could use clarification on. And that is what exactly is a havas eritz? Is that a darisa a mitzvah that we just gloss over? Is it an emotion? Is it a lifestyle? Is it a political identity? Is we we see extremes on both sides of the aisle. We have people who will march and die to the flag of Israel and will say that it's a havas. We will have people who will never utter the words Israel or never discuss it for fear of Zionism or whatever. What is Ahavas Erit Israel? Without getting into Zionist debates, obviously Erit Israel is not the same as Medinat Israel. Medina Israel is a political entity and there are those who were against Hakamat Medina like Carta. are those that were positive for it and that's a major debate that that to some degree still goes on even today. Uh but Israel as the land of Israel uh aas well first of all there is a maklo reonim according to the raman there is a mitzvah the oisa to live in Israel according to the ramam there seems to be no mitzvah of living in Israel but he's still mishabak the holiness of living here uh the nivish in a in a letter actually says that those who live in the gola are by definition following the that there's no like the Ramban there would be uh Raos Feinstein on the other hand uh took the position that even like the Ramban it's only a mitzvah meaning if you live here you have a mitzvah but you're not to live here so there are many many different opinions regarding Israel but in terms of Israel well it's a good question what does it mean to love Erit Israel I mean do I love the land. Well, the work who would kiss the the the dirt itself. But I think aaserat Israel is to recognize that this is the land in which Hashem makes his presence more manifest and therefore a person might feel I want to live here because this is where Hashem wants me to live. This is where more mitzvah of the Torah can be maky like Shmita, etc. And this is where I can have a deeper connection to the rebal. And therefore, my love of Eric Israel comes from my love of aeshbu wanting a deeper relationship with with aeshb. Again, it has nothing to do in a sense with Zionism. It has nothing to do with the state of Isism. Now, again, I happen to be somewhat of a Zionist and I I support the state or at least I, you know, I want to help the state do defense and everything else. Uh but but the point I'm making is that love of Eric Israel does not have to be connected at all with your stance on Zionism or Medina Israel. Those are two separate issues. Many characters live in Israel. My question would be then if that is true then why is it historically the just for lack of better terms the more leftleaning more modern communities have ran towards quote unquote aava Israel or a Israel and I mean ait Israel and the more yeshivish more rightwing it's just not a focus because if it in fact a is essential to being a from Jew, being a religious Jew. So then why is it that one puts a focus on it, one doesn't and and as this is all assuming that the focus that they do put on is in fact real genuine love of Hashem that's being manifested through the love of his land as opposed to love of a land and Zionism and finally being a country like every other country and and Zionism is really a front for just being like everyone else. So if it in fact is essential. No no you know it's it's a bigar you know the Grebby I think they the B Israel once remarked that uh we've lost three things that were stolen from us by the non-religious Jews. Uh they stole Tanakh or they stole Nak because Nak became identified with Tazcala. So now a from Jew can't learn Nak anymore. uh they stole so that was stolen by the masculin uh chuva was stolen by the bal chuva meaning to say all of us should be doing chuba we think oh that's a balcha thing and zionism which is a Israel was stolen by the zionist it got hijacked zionist took over zionism and baluva took over chuva and the masculum took over which means part of what's going on is that because the the the the endeavor ever of settling the land got so identified with a political ideology much of which was against the Torah. So the whole idea became tra the whole idea became pussle the whole idea became something you can't associate yourself with guilt by association to be frank now if you go back to the early years of the zionist movement you had the nitivion and the like you did have you know real real gdole who were endorsing moving is to agricultural settlements and the like but as the political zionist movement got more and more powerful uh and they kind of took over Israeli society. So the whole idea of of Erit Israel became kind of tra it became kind of leftwing. It became identified as connected to kilonim and secularism and as a result as the gabbi said Zionism was hijacked by the Zionists and that that's a question is can we claim it back? I was going to say, should a religious Jew celebrate Yomat's food? It depends what you mean. If you're talking about saying halo with the braha, I would say I would say no because we don't create new holidays and new scenarios beyond those of uh should a religious Jew feel uh a certain sim a certain toku and even a sat to the medina for creating an infrastructure. I believe the answer should be yes because in spite of all of the fighting we have with the state in in spite of all of the tightness and disagreements we have laisa an infrastructure was created that enables the flourishing of Torah and for that we have to have a uh you know if the Rambam writes that part of why is a yumpt is because we're grateful for the kashi even though the malus kash eventually disintegrated and they persecuted and even murdered but were still grateful for having a Jewish malus. I think that would indicate according to the Rambam a certain as well. That doesn't mean we ignore the and that doesn't mean we agree with everything the Medina does and that doesn't mean we're not going to have makus with them when we need to have a makus but some basic notion of I think is appropriate and the con the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is that if we are maker to uh the other side so to speak they will come to be mak what we stand for as well. This is in as water reflects the face that you show it. I I I show the water a smiling face. I get a smile. A person will feel that which I show them. I show them gratitude. I show them respect. They're going to feel gratitude and respect for what I stand for. And that's the absence of that is why the makloin between religious and secular never get resolved in Israel because each side looks at the other in the worst possible light instead of seeing them in a positive way. What what what does it mean like what practically would it look like for a Jew to demonstrate Hakar Satov? Well, uh I'll give you an example. I was walking I was walking with an A yesterday and uh we passed some soldiers and I you know I didn't say it's a tiny I actually didn't say anything but he he made a point of looking at them in the eye and saying you know in Hebrew thank you very much for all you're doing we appreciate it and they were a little surprised and I thought that was a very very nice thing to do I wish I would have thought of it uh I didn't think of it at that particular moment. But those are little things, you know, police, garbage men, you know, there's a lot of infrastructure here that the Torah world wouldn't be able to really flourish without all of that infrastructure. And we need to have used to say this a lot. You know, obviously one of the hot issues in Israel right now, a very important hot issue is the drafting of Benetra and Kared into the army. Right? This is a bitter, divisive issue that may even bring down the government, although probably in the middle of a new war, it probably won't won't come to that. Of course, this is an issue that we have to fight over and and and do what we can. But somehow it got turned into disparaging soldiers and saying who needs them and they're useless and they're doing nothing. And that's an ava. That is a novelt during the six- day war and other wars always made the point that we have whether we're whether we encourage going into the army or we discourage going into the army we have to have hakaras hat for people religious or not who are endangering their lives for Israel and for Eric Israel and when you turn the issue of in the army into disparaging that's a lack And that is a mida. Just in in in closing, can you give a for the hundreds of thousands of regular Jews out there who are just trying to be good people and make a living and live in today's confusing world? Can you give them an piece of advice that would keep them on fire in their Yiddishite throughout their lives? Life is tough because Hashem wants to bring out goodness in us that otherwise would not come without these challenges. But Hashem is ultimately a God of love. He loves every Jew. He's Mak of every Jew. Every Jew has a purpose in the world. And when times are tough, speak to Hashem in your own words besides and besides to him, in your own words, things are very rough for me. Can you help me? Can you give me the strength? Can you give me the insight? And although it's not likely you're going to hear Hashem speak to you, you're not going to hear it in that way. But I think you know you your heart will be lighter and you'll feel that you have the wherewithal to go ahead and do what you need to do. And that's also Hashem answering the prayer. Hashem is answering your by giving you that kayak. So don't give up. Don't give up. Try to appreciate life. See the blessings even in the difficulties. And when difficulties come, always ask yourself, how can this make me a better person? And then you're taking the difficulty and you're making it a gift. Beautiful. Rabbi, thank you very much for for joining and continued. Thank you so much. You should have much in your rabbi and you should go. [Music]