JUDAISM WITHOUT APOLOGIZING - Episode 1- Reb Moshe Don Kestenbaum

In a world where everyone seems to have not just a microphone but a megaphone, the voices of our gadm or raanim and Russia yeshiva far too often seem to get lost in the noise. This podcast is here to change that. I'm your host Hillel Eisenberg. Join me as we sit down with our nation's leaders as they address the Ashkoffic challenges that matter most without the fluff and without the drama. With truth that doesn't flinch. Buckle up, cuz this isn't your typical podcast. This is Judaism without apologizing. Hello everyone. I'm Hell Eisenberg and I'm thrilled to share with you the Judaism without apologizing podcast. This episode I had the great honor and privilege to sit down with Rev. Mosha Dunan Castm who blew me away with his humility, his razor sharp perception of people, his insight into some pretty thorny issues. Ser castam has been around the Jewish block. He was a rebby in the waterberry yeshiva for many years. He's now the rashiva of yeshiva gadela or yitzk a postitist yeshiva and pose. He's also a well-known mahan. He's a speaker. He does parenting courses and marriage counseling. He's also the author of two of the most wildly used contemporary mustarim written in the last 30 years called Amidas and Mida. Both of which been subsequently been translated by art scroll. He is also the author of two extremely popular English books. One is called run after the right covid and the other one is called the heart of parenting. And he additionally has thousands and thousands of shirum on a wide variety of topics on Torah anytime. And we had a fascinating discussion about struggling teens and therapy and marriage and divorce and parenting and midas. And he gives an amazingly refreshing perspective on living a life as a Jew on fire in today's day and age. So I think you're really going to enjoy. Take a listen. Thank you Rebecca Cast for joining this podcast. Judaism without apologizing. It's a an honor to have you on. It's to be here. Thank you. So, I want to dive right in. I know that you've seen the gamut of Bahim struggling to brim getting married to Bahim married and now raising children. I want to those all require separate set of questions and I want to start from parenting and we'll make our way down to the world of buckerhood. Let's begin with our our first question. Are there more struggling teenagers nowadays than there used to be than 30 years ago than even 20 years ago? Is that a myth? Is that fake news? And if it is in fact true what would you say are the causes for that? And is there a sort of a fault in the parenting? Obviously, there's a million factors, but can you point to a potential flaw in modern-day parenting which has led to the the high numbers of struggling teens? Or you might disagree and say there are not in fact a high number of struggling teens. It's a great question. I don't know the numbers. You know, the Jewish population has baram grown so much that a lot of things are hard to know. Do we have greater numbers just because we have more people or actually the percentages have risen? So the Jewish population used to be smaller. So it is hard to know but I will share with you the following which may explain why we have or maybe a few reasons why we have greater problems today. tell us of that before Msiah comes there's going to be a lot of children today are naturally more disrespectful than they were and it keeps on going up and up and up and it's scary why why do you think that is tell us so it doesn't mean we can't explain it say the is going to increase why I don't have a uh I think it's a decree from I think there's some positive sight you know positive things in it but that's say before Mashia comes is going to increase when you say what do you what are you referring to I'm referring to as the Gumar says the children speaking back to their parents you know children used to be more afraid naturally of their parents I don't know about you I don't know your age but there are many things I didn't think about saying to my parents and I'm sure my parents I don't remember they probably told me I was pretty well behaved but you know I would have never thought of telling that's going to go on like every generation everyone's going to tell their kid I would have never dreamed of saying that to my and it's hard to imagine that happening with our children today our children telling their children I would have never dreamed of saying that that that's pretty scary that's pretty frightening children today are more disrespectful and I would say it's from and why I cannot tell you but I think because of that automatically we're going to have a tremendous challenge in front of us because many of the problems that arise is a child is disrespectful to the parents whether verbally or maybe even their reaction to Yiddishkite. It used to be people children were more comfortable. I don't say more comfortable. They'd be willing to go along with what their parents told them. They may be willing to behave in yeshiva even if they're miserable. You had kids probably miss years ago that were miserable and they just went along and did what they were supposed to even though they were miserable. That doesn't mean that it was a great situation. It doesn't mean that maybe later on there weren't problems with their Yiddishkite. But I think there's a certain willingness to go along a humility subordinance. We'll go along. Okay, this is what the rabbis say. In fact, you see that the yeshivas have really adapted by by force. The yeshivas have adapted to be much warmer. Not all of them because maybe maybe not all of them believe it as much as they should, but I think they forced to because if we're not gonna be nicer, the kids are going to rebel. So it forced the children kind of forced a revolution of that we have to be more tolerant. We have to be softer. Now some people think and you'll get me back to where we were because I'm going to get lost, but some people think it's the other way around. Some people think that the reason why kids are so disrespectful is because parents are so liberal. And then you have these liberal like who's telling parents to like absorb and be soft and be understanding and not respond harshly to the behavior. And I'm the problem because the kids are responding to that softness. And if we would just be tougher and we would, you know, clamp down on the kids, they would behave. They wouldn't talk that way. Maybe they wouldn't dress that way. The reality is, as someone who's been in the field for quite some time, it's not true. And my experience is with parents that clamp down and are very tough and don't give in and put their foot down doesn't doesn't lead to great results. The kids end up rebellious, running away, not in a good situation. So how would you balance instilling structure in one's home but also not having that rebellious backfire attitude from the child? Meaning how do you have a balance? You can't have a free-for-all. Obviously, there has to be some sort of parental structure and guidance and setting the red line in the sand saying those things we don't do or those actions we don't do but at the same time allowing the child to live his 2025 life where he needs to be loved and empowered and etc. It's a good question. I don't have the exact answer. I recently gave a parenting course and I tell the parents, you know, you'll do it your way. I don't have the exact answer and there's not necessarily one way. There are some rules that I think are apply to everybody and that is parents, you know, not becoming angry really, not becoming angry, not taking things personally. But at the end of the day, my view of is that is about teaching, not controlling. My job is to teach my child that he's not allowed to talk to me that way, that he should not act that way. My job is not to enforce even uh we teach our children to bench. I don't think we stand there over our child making sure he benched making sure she benched making sure they said every word that is going to lead to a lot of you know resentment towards Yiddish is to educate is to teach not to force parents very often think my job is to make sure my child did everything. Well, you can do that when your child is, you know, three years old till maybe they're 13, 14, maybe at some point. You cannot force them anyways. So, I think the philosophy of teaching, not forcing, begins at a very young age. I want to teach my child right from wrong. And if my child's disrespectful, I will tell them. I should tell them. That's not how we should talk to a parent. But I'm not sure the approach is that I will lock them in the room if they do it again and force them into position where they better be respectful because otherwise the consequences will be so great that they don't have a choice because I think that will lead to a child that's resentful. And I want to share with you something else. I tell this to the parents all the time in terms of listen there's a very important idea here in marriages. When a husband's upset at a wife, a wife's upset at her husband, what is a proper way to communicate, as we're taught, you know that you should say it very nicely. I know you didn't mean anything, but it really upset me when you came home 10 minutes late and you didn't tell me. Unfortunately, and we could talk about that, but unfortunately, most people, I shouldn't say most, many people do not communicate with their spouses that way. When they are angry, when they're upset, they let them have it. Maybe they control it and temper it a little bit, but it's not usually in the nicest controlled way possible. When a child today is disrespectful to their parents, all they are doing is expressing their feelings. It used to be a child was afraid to express their feelings to the parent, so they didn't. today not because a parent would beat them up but there was a certain fear of a parent which which has been which is deteriorating as kazal tell us so what do we want from the 13-year-old 14-year-old or even 10-year-old what do we want from that we want them to come to us and say mommy I know you really love me and I feel bad complaining because you're always so good to me but I have to say it does bother me when you don't buy me enough clothing and other girls in my class have this is that we're expecting from a 13-year-old And by the way, many many parents will respond to that even if they say it nicely, but you don't ask. Okay. So, you can have two options. Your child, you know, doesn't communicate to you or I'm not sure the other option. Your child will not communicate with you. You your child is not going to be able to talk to you at 13 years old the way that most 30 and 40 year olds are not able to talk to their spouse. So the child is going to communicate with anger because say they're less afraid of the parents which in my view which is a bit there's a big here there's a big blessing here my child can actually tell me what they're upset about they can actually communicate I recently in this parenting course I told the parents that maybe your child is angry at you and maybe your relationship is in a bad place well when your child yells at you and they're actually saying something that has some content in it. That's an opportunity. You could just yell back. You could just walk away. Or you could say, "I see you're really upset about this. I want to talk to you about it." What an incredible lesson we teach our children when we don't act like children. We want to teach our children not to speak disrespectfully. We want to teach our children not to have the bad me of ker bad of anger. So what do we do? Our child yells at us and we yell back. So, we're doing exactly what we shouldn't be doing and role modeling exactly what what our child is doing. We're the adult. We have to if our child screams at us, we should tell them. It's not respectful, but I want to talk to you about what's bothering you. And when you're when you're ready to talk, let's talk about it. And if if you're a real sadic, you're real sadist, you go back to the child 3 hours, four hours later and say, you know, you were screaming me before. I didn't like the way you're communicating, but you're obviously upset about this. Let's talk about it. Wow. Wow. That's greatness. That's greatness. In order to be a parent today, and maybe this is why Hashem created, number one, to enhance the relationship that we're able to have with our children, but number two, you know what? You become a big person today. If you're a good parent, you cannot be a good parent today without being a big person. Because if you don't have self-control, if you going to take things personally, if you don't have control over your anger, you're going to have a very hard time dealing with your child, unless they're a goody goody, which some children are. Let let me interject on that point. Exactly. Have we come to a point in our society where our schools are so perfect or or amazing or systemized or fantastic and well-run oiled machines where parenting has become the duty of the school on a on incorrectly where parents on a subliminal level or sometimes on a conscious level say these schools are so big and their brand is so massive and the rebay are so good and the system is so awesome and they've got detections for every form of educational problem that they come in and swoop in and help out. On a little tiny but increasing level, the parental duties are shifted to the school and therefore the parents relinquish the roles of major mashim, the primary hashba onto the child. Instead, it's the school doing it and therefore the parents are sort of exaggerated babysitters. Is that accurate or not accurate? And if it is accurate, how do we sort of retain the the checks and balances separating church and state where the school teaches olive and bays and the parents teach mid and proper ethical behavior? You know that question really reflects a complete miss on what is. It's not just teaching your kids how to learn Torah, teaching your kids how to make blessings, that's not the only part of and if that was the only part of teaching your children and teaching your children to badge, then you're right. The school does most of that. Of course, we'll talk. There's more to it than just telling them what to do. But the most important part of is the love, respect, relationship you give to your child. Today's children that are off the d, it's not, as people mistakenly think, a Yiddish guy problem. I have not seen a healthy, emotionally healthy 15-year-old, 16-year-old who did well in school and is like philosophically I have questions on the creation and I'm gonna go to Harvard and and and and such go off the d. We don't have mascul today. It's unbelievable bar. We don't have that intellectual people going off the d. People going off the deaf because they're in pain because they don't feel good about themselves because unfortunately they're rejected sometimes in school because of ADHD because they struggle academically and all types of problems because they feel rejected by their parents rejected by their community. It's all emotional health issues. Our number one responsibility as parents is to be part of my vernacular to be a good mom to be a good dad. To be a good mom to be a good dad. I don't care. Say it like a nonju. A good mom, a good dad who loves his child and his child loves him and loves her and your child is close to you. That's number one. And that the schools cannot do. Theim could say from today to tomorrow, I love my they don't love their like a parent loves their child. You know, we had a terrible car accident, you know, years ago. Two precious bakram passed away in this car accident. The other ones that survived, many of them were were in the hospital. Who was sleeping in the hospital by their bed? Their parents. They're obeying. We love them. We visit them. We care for them. Who's by their side? Their parents. No one can replace a mother. No one can replace a father. Schools cannot replace that. Schools can teach. Only parents can give the children the love and the self-esteem that they need. Schools can help. Schools can do a lot of damage. But the most important people in a child's life is a mother and a father. And in terms of teaching our children the laws, theos the midos and everything like that. It's mostly taught by example. We see the children see us bench, the children see us den, the children see us learn, etc. They're influenced by that. But of course, and all the teaching and all the what to do is not half nearly as important as the role modeling. And who are people that going to want to role model? a mom that they hate, a dad that they can't stand, or a mom that they love. My mom is so loving to me. She I love her. I love my dad, so I want to be like him. And we're so busy, unfortunately, Ben. So busy with that. It's such a mistake because if we have the strong relationship, we don't have to be always telling them what to do. They're going to want to do. They're going to want to be like us. They're going to want to follow the beautiful ta we have. One of the things I've seen that really bothers me, I do some counseling on the side. Not often, but but I get the feeling with parents many times if their child is having a problem, they hand them off to the therapist. So, let's hand them off to the therapist and the therapist will deal with the problems and I'm being a good parent because I'm paying it's expensive. I'm paying for the therapy. It's a terrible mistake on many, many levels. I've had parents bring me their child and I saw quickly that the child wasn't really the entire problem, if that the parents needed help. No therapist working with your child for an hour, whether they're talking, whether he's playing video games, whatever they're doing for that hour, no therapist can replace the parent. And I think it's irresponsible, by the way, for any therapist, barring a crazy situation, to be working with a child and not be working with the parents. Wow. Because if you would help the parents, the parents are the most necessary components to that child's well-being. So nice, you're working with that child. You know, at I'm not talking about a child who's 20 years old and the parents are crazy and he has he has to be away from them. But in a normal situation, even a difficult situation, you have to try to work with the parents who are in the best position to help the child. And I think yeshivas that work with children must feel a responsibility to guide the parents because when you help the parents, you will help the child a lot more. You're the rebby, you're the therapist, you'll spend an hour a week with the child. If you spent that hour with the parents and got the parents to be more understanding, more compassionate, and build a relationship with the child, the parents would help the child. What should a rebby or a therapist do to approach the parents who in 100% out of the cases will be in denial of their flaws. So most so first of all if the parents have you have to find out if the parents have flaws in their parenting you have to find out if the parents are perfect and the child has a disorder which is rarely the case and even if the child has a disorder it's usually imp impacted by how the parents are reacting to that disorder. You know, you have to find out as a therapist, it's in my opinion, it's your responsibility to find out how the parents are handling the child. And if it needs to be corrected, you need to talk to the parents. I don't want to talk to parents because I'm scared they're not going to listen. Well, that's irresponsible. You know, if the parents don't listen, don't listen. You tried. And then, by the way, you're in a tricky situation, which I don't have the the answer. But on one hand, you're working with a child and your child and the child is telling you, "My parents are always yelling at me." So, what are you going to do? tell the child, "Oh, your parents are are right." Now, I'm not saying therapists, there are a lot of therapists shouldn't say a lot. There are therapists, unfortunately, that wedge between the children and the parents and cause a lot of damage. And that's not the right thing to do. A child needs his parents and you don't want to cause, you know, a wedge between them. But on the other hand, you can't lie to the child either and tell them, "Oh, your parents are rightfully yelling at you because you misbehaved." No, they shouldn't be yelling. This is a big This is a very big pet peeve of mine. It is such a terrible crime when a therapist keeps on working with a child and doesn't look and doesn't work with the parents. It's a crime. It could have saved the kid's life. You're working with a child an hour a week. You're not going to very unlikely going to save the kid's life if the kid's in a dysfunctional relationship with his parents, but you could save the kid's life by working with the parents. Barashem a number of times over the years, I sat down with the child and his parents and we talked things out and I've seen miracles. I've seen such beautiful things happen. But I will tell you, I've dealt with two different types of parents. Mostly the first. I've dealt with parents that said, "Please tell me what I could do better because I want to help my child." And they're actually willing to listen to me when I tell them, "Well, if your kid says this to you, you can't scream at them. And if your kid needs this, you have to think about maybe your kid does need it." And they accept it. And then you do have some select parents that no matter what you tell them. No, no, I did everything right, different right, they just refuse to hear that they've made mistakes. And this is why the world needs mus. This is what we need. We need to be willing to be honest and admit we made mistakes. There's an interesting thing that you write here in I even underlined it many years ago on that line you just said about needing muser. Fascinating. You say here that learning learning muser and improving one's midas is more important than the ke of the actual mitzvah of the and obviously I'm not going to get into the nitty-g gritties of what that's not me that's right right but I I actually wanted to focus on an even stronger concept which is that those that are sitting and learning but are not actively working on their midos they're not considered as if they are sitting and learning It's considered like I don't know exactly what you want to call it but their liotra is not at its best or it's not the correct fulfillment of limitra if your midos are not being actively worked on is that a is did I accurately paraphrase your statement or yes no yes yes there are many sources you know the vag says the purpose of person's life is to work on his mid the alter says the whole terra was given to to perfect a person's character. And the truth of the matter is Tyra perfects a person's character if the Torah is learned properly. And if we see someone that learns Tyra and doesn't have good meidos, that's perforce a sign that they're not learning Tyra with the right reasons. They're not learning Tyra at all. And of course, as the Gumar tells us in Yuma, it's a when someone learns Torah and doesn't have good meidos and it causes of course tremendous damage in in if a Rebi teaching Torah and doesn't have good meidos. A parent that's religious and certainly a parent that even is that doesn't have good meidos of course is a tremendous you know harm to to to the children to society. So why is it that we don't see this as an emphasis? You don't walk into a schol at 9:30 and see 25% of the people learning or shar you don't muser seder in yeshivas are notoriously empty it's just not a focus whatsoever and if what you're saying is is true then the the focus and the ideal of our lives is to perfect our midos and learning Torah while neglecting to work on our midos is essentially. So then why in fact isn't it sort of on the pedestal of where it should be? I don't have an answer but first of all I want to share with you you know why maybe part of why it is this way. First of all when you talk about certain shuva they're very much primarily been so it's a little bit less midos focused. have parts you know famous m perov about midos but you know it's not the focus of many of there's there's two types of there different aspects of mus is a broad word there's muser in you know and there's mus but let me tell you why I think muser is not so popular especially especially midos because people think it's simple first of all people think it's simple if you ask somebody what does it mean to have good midos you're a nice guy you don't scream at people. People don't people don't realize how complicated it is to have really good midos. Real good midos first of all is not just external behavior that you don't go around screaming at people. There's a lot of internal work inside of you inside of ourselves. Are we jealous of people? Do we want good for people? Are we angry inside? You know, as they write in the safer in marriage, a lot of real me does come out. And asal says, we can judge a person's midas by how he treats his wife. I'll add as a wife maybe treats her husband. And because with everyone else, you don't scream and yell because you want to look good. But with your spouse in privacy of your home, the truth comes out. I'll tell you something else. You know, I speak to my bakram about midos. But not only speak to about midos, you know, the last few months I do once a week a shalom bias course. And many of the bakham not even dating yet. But it's valuable to hear it now because they'll keep it in their head. Even when I used to teach 11th grade, I would talk about these things. And you know, one particular uh married person um I have in mind, he said to me that he remembers now he's married years later. He remembers what I taught him in 11th grade and it's made an impact. So for example, I I spoke to the bak a person you you you talk about a bakar and you say you ask for a resume. He'd ask for I'm sorry. He asked for information. You say what Bakar is? He's a very adidal. He's very adak. He's very adal. He's very sweet. So you think until I got married a little bit. You think that if you're a sweet guy, you're going to be a great husband. You're a sweet guy. You can't hurt a fly. So I told the Bakum, yeah, he can't hurt a fly, but he wish he could kill a few. Many of the people that are very soft, but they're holding a lot of anger inside. Their room is taking things. They don't want to say anything. Either they're scared or because they're they think that's good midos and maybe to some extent, but really they have a lot of anger inside. And then they get married and their wife is doing things they don't like and they have no idea what to do with it to express it. They don't know how to express it because when do they ever express when something was bothering them to hold it in? They know how to do. But then they have anger. And when it was with their roommate, they don't have to be with their roommate. They just take a walk. But their wife, if they do take a walk on their wife, it's not very nice. It's going to be quite insulting and they don't know what to do. And sometimes it comes out in anger and sometimes it comes out with maybe even worse is they just keep it locked in and they're carrying a lot of anger and it's felt and a lot of problems come out. Being a balidos is quite complicated and takes a lot of wisdom. You can't just expect and we expect like oh in our yeshiva we don't focus on maser we don't focus on understanding ourselves we don't focus on working ourselves we focus on learning tyra and of course we teach the buck to be nice guys if if if we do that we teach them to be nice guys and then we expect them to get married and their wife says something they don't like and they're just going to be able to deal with it and if they need to tell their wife something they'll be able to and they and there is a important place for communication how how we expecting them to do And then they have children and their child's disrespectful and you expect them to do what I asked them to do. Stay calm. Understand that they're in pain. Don't take it personally. How do you how do you expect the person to do that without serious work on themselves? So So what if a 19-year-old Baka comes to you and says, "I want to work on my mid, but don't just tell me to read Shar. want to like practically like learning mus often times is just a hissir us to the concept that I need to go ahead and work on my mas. So what is the practical next step of working on my mus? Okay. So so with all arrogance and I'm not saying my safer is the only one but the difference of let's say amidos of a more classical safer is in we don't just tell you not to get angry we tell you ideas and thoughts of how maybe to work on yourself you know not to get angry and and that's and that's so important and so important. I spoke at my daughter's seminary a few months ago and I said to them, I ju I said, I want to tell you it's not okay for you to scream at your husband. It's not okay for you to scream at your husband. I'm not going to say it's never going to happen. And if and if a wife screams at her husband, the husband should be a man and take it and stay calm and talk respectfully back. But it's not okay for a woman to scream at her husband. It's anger is forbidden. Varm is forbidden. You have an obligation if your husband forgot something or came home late to talk to him about it, not scream at him and call him names and yell at him. That's a very basic thing. Hopefully, they're teaching that in schools and seminaries, I don't know, but it's a basic thing. Now, if people at least learned alto or learned another mus saver, it doesn't have to be my merc saver, but if someone learned that, that's very valuable. At least I can look at myself in the mirror and say I shouldn't have screamed at. I have to apologize for screaming at him. Not apologize maybe for maybe I'm right about what he did wrong, but I have to take responsibility for my behavior. Many people, men and women, live their whole lives. I was right for screaming cuz they did that. There's no responsibility like no, Hashem expects more from us. Hashem expects us to work on ourselves. Now that's one piece knowing that I have to work on myself. Yes, there's another piece you know to putting into action but if you don't have the first piece there's nothing to talk about. There's so much depth in me though. See my see listen Hashem gave me a big gift. I wouldn't be talking to you about this if not for my rabbi pair itself. He gave a daily muservad for about a half an hour every day in yeshiv you talk about yeshivas where they're running away by mused. First of all, you're putting a safe in front of them expecting to learn it. So that it itself is maybe not as fun. But my rebi gave us a vad a class every single day. And it was so enjoyable. It was so gmach. He would point out to us the, you know, the human nature, how funny we are, how flawed we are. And he he had just an amazing sense of humor. So the way he did it was just just amazing. But it was so engaging and it was so exciting. And it really excited me the rest of my life and certainly the the next 10 years, you know, after that to really be aware and conscious and and understand myself and pay attention to myself. So it's very hard to expect someone that wasn't exposed to that kind of maser that my ribb gave to even understand its significance and have that appreciation for it. I would only hope as this through this podcast and and Bar you know is just spreading awareness that we have to findarum my rebi has bashm they wrote over things from him mind over man findarum that talk about it in a way that you find engaging stimulating and it's a whole world of wisdom it's a world of wisdom so circling back to marriage for a second let's I want to uh delve into that are there more divorces is nowadays amongst younger people than there were 20 years ago or 30 years ago or it's just everyone knows everyone nowadays more than we did did 30 years ago. Meaning you very often hear about 24 year olds who are getting divorced. Not saying it's a global pandemic, but it's creeping up. Is that accurate? And if it isn't accurate, why is it happening? And what are perhaps steps we can take to stop that? So I I don't know. I don't know the numbers. Whether it's more or whether there's more yidden and more news goes around. I don't know. But there are reasons to think why it may make some sense that we could have more problems today. Like we said, you know, there's more today. We are It used to be many of us can think of our grandparents or great-grandparents. It used to be people stayed married, not necessarily in the perfect relationship where they they they may be fighting and arguing, but they loved each other and there was a commitment to each other. I don't know if we're as committed as we used to be in general, just, you know, people move from thing to thing, whether it's because we're just used to having things quickly. I don't know if we have the same level of commitment that we used to. Part of marriage, part of the foundation of marriage is I'm committed to this person and I'm committed to working it out. So I don't know if we have the same level of commitment. People may be quicker to like it's not working out. Maybe I don't know. I also think there going to be many challenges today which are going to affect marriage. Communication. So today communication because of phones I think is weaker. People don't have to communicate verbally. They could send a text. So they can come into marriage really not having good communication skills. We also have challenges with technology which may also impact whether it impacts the man because of what he's seen whether unfortunately during marriage there are issues. So that also has sure played a role in in in in divorces. Um you know so there there's a varied of of a variety of factors. I will say that I believe strongly it's our responsibility to prepare our young men and women for marriage. We have them barem unbelievable. We have them in yeshiva. Most boys are in yeshiva till they get married and many of them after. But they're in yeshiva till they're married and if they go to work earlier they're still there for quite a long time. The girls are in school through seminary. We have time to teach them. We must teach them. We must teach them number one the importance of working on your midos, working on yourself, getting to understand yourself. You know, there is more talk today about being emotionally healthy. That's not what I'm referring to. I'm not talking about referring to be emotionally healthy, which maybe overlaps with midos, but you're a healthy person overall. But really understanding yourself, working on yourself, that has to be a focus in yeshivas. I'll be honest, not everybody is right pairs. That's all. Not everyone could teach it. But maybe the rashiva who the rashiva gives an unbelievable shar on the garra is not equipped to teach it. It's not a it's not a flaw on on the rashiva. Everyone has their strengths. You know for myself who hope qualified to teach samidas I couldn't give the high level shir in in many yeshivas. So everyone has their strengths but we should recognize this needs to be done. So if I can't do it, do I have a rebi? Do I have another do I have mashia of someone who could do it? Am I looking to hire somebody who can do it? Maybe I can bring someone once a week who could do it. Maybe I can give them that I appreciate or someone else can tell me. Maybe I'm just not into this, but I can get them to the one second. Can I just interject? The yeshiva's the typical ber is going to missa and then yeshiva for three years and then he's going to stroll and he's going to BMG. So the time to educate on marriage in preparation for marriage would be that obligation would be thrust on the Mir or Brisk or Yaga or wherever they're going in art and then on BMG neither institution I think is is running to give midos clinics maybe the mirror a little bit but certainly not Brisk or Yang deal or and certainly not BMG. The question is, are you suggesting that these institutions should in fact have these? I mean, I know there are vomiting. No one's listening to me. I'm risking. No, I know. I'm saying a utopian world. I just I'm just saying first of all, I think we should be stressing midos in MFA. We There's no reason we shouldn't be stressing midos and missa. We should be stressing midos in elementary school. There's a lot to talk about this. You know, the fact that I don't know if it still exists, but the fact that I have a feeling that it may exist that there's a concept of freshy treatment in yeshiva is antithetical to what it means good, which is you're nice to everybody, you're respectful to everybody. We have to be teaching good midos and there's no we could start at a very young age, but through massa through base med teaching midos. So that was the first part I was in the middle of talking about teaching people the importance of working on their midos. That's probably in my opinion the most important part. If you give me a guy, you give me a bakar that has been working on his midos. He's been learning, you know, I'm sorry. He's been learning a lot of midos. He's been working on himself. Even if he's not prepared for marriage, I'm pretty comfortable with that guy. You know why? Because he's been working on himself. And then when he gets thrown the curve balls in marriage, he's got some footing. He's gonna work on it. He's gonna figure it out and he cares to figure it out. Most importantly, give me a girl. You know, I feel that's one of the greatest gave me that girls are actually learning that girls are actually learning because that was not so common because they didn't learn, you know. You know, so girls actually learning mus such a great that girls are learning muser. Even if they don't know about marriage, they're already ahead of the game. Oh, I'm not supposed to be screaming a husband. I have to work on myself. That's already like we're, you know, we're 80% there. We're we're in a good place. Now, is it beneficial and important to also teach specifics about marriage? Yes. And that I would say you can wait. If you don't, you know, whether you'll have to decide. I would I have no problem doing it with younger base managed guys because I don't know if I know what's going to happen when they're older. So, let me do it now while I know I can do it. Also it is connected to regular midos too. It's not just marriage is not in a vacuum. But um I think we need some specific you know and there are in BMG vadim and this and that but I question is are we like something we're demanding and saying like you have to you have to be listening you have to be working on it. You have to hear or it's like it's a nice thing. It's more than a nice thing. It's critical. Talk about children. One of the greatest impacts as the gadylum taught Rafam and others shalas has great impact on our children. We have to work on ourselves to be a good husband to be a good wife needs work. So what advice would you tell a pair a couple that is trying their best to create a house of what advice would you tell them to help them be happy successful Jews who happen to be living in America as opposed to happy successful Americans who happen to be Jews. And to specify what I mean is very often you could have people that they were learning in Kyle for two years or three years and they had a wife who went to fresh out of seminary. So they're all inspired and then they enter the workforce and the itch to make a lot of money kicks in and they look around and they see that wealthy people are celebrated and it becomes more and more difficult to say is my working on my mudas is my emotional bank account is completely used up by the effort to attain wealth and style and food good food, vacation, whatever it is. What advice would you give to somebody to starting out to circumn to prevent that from happening to stare in the eyes of a society that very very much focuses on attaining wealth and build building bigger and bigger houses and saying, you know what, I'm going to be okay with making $200,000 feeding my family and being making sure limiter is the meaning $200,000 that's that's a lot of money. $300,000. Whatever it is, you got uh that's what we've come to. Meaning it's it's it's very very This is a new topic, right? Not really. I'm saying it in the context of marriage because you have a couple that was together on board ready to build a house that's filled with kadusha and then it sort of peters out a little bit when they see hey I can we can make money and okay so first of all I really think there's a big difference between midos and shifas for tyra and and there is there is a difference of course midos is a kok and tyra and a kaok of of of growth and being a yid. And I also want to say I don't think anyone looks at themselves as Americans. I think everyone really, even if they get caught up in things, view themselves as as yed and as Jews, as precious yen. If a person is cares about midos, if a person cares about midos and a husband cares about how he's treating his wife and a wife cares about treating her husband and we have to teach men and women in yeshiva that that's their most foremost obligation to be a good husband, to be a good wife, to really work on yourself. So I think that can carry through really under all circumstances because even if you don't have the time, even if you're not learning as you should be and we can talk about that and even if you're not as focused as as you were before, but the midos is something it's really easy to keep focus on because you're always interacting with people and you're always interacting with your wife. And by the way, one of the beautiful thing about midos is you could keep it on you at all times. I don't believe midos is about learning is safer. I wrote all amidos from a collection of 10 years of sitting in my brain as I was dealing with situations on the ground, not from reading. It's from from dealing with my own life's experiences, dealing with my own jealousy, dealing with my own anger, that's what's shared in there. So if somebody works on their midos, cares about their midos, what happens is he takes that to work. When there's someone else at work that he's jealous of, he thinks about that. I'm jealous of him. I have to work on it. Let me think about why I shouldn't be jealous. Oh, I'm not being so nice to him because I'm jealous or I'm don't want him to get a promotion. So, I'm not saying nice something nice to the boss. That's not good. Midos, that's not right. I have to trust and I'm going to say something nice. So, you bring Hashem into your world because midos involves, you know, typically in work, we're involved with other people. So, really midos really can connect us, bring kadusha into the world, into our workforce. So I don't think that the midos will be actually of course if you get caught up in money maybe it could turn into bad turn you into having bad midos but I think the midos could really stay strong even if you're not as strong in the learning as you should be in terms of how we stay connected to our to our values you know and not get caught up in the in the rat race. So first of all just to be mamas a little bit I think a lot of people are not um I think it's a little bit exaggerated about everybody trying to become rich. I think today the cost of living is so high is everybody's trying to survive. Now you could argue about whether you know their standards people's standards are too high but the cost of living even when you try to keep things on a lower standard are very very high and very expensive. So, I think a lot of people are working hard to make money, not necessarily because they want to be millionaires, because they're trying to survive. They're trying to pay their bills. Life is expensive. You know, you throw out in passing $200,000. I mean, if you would have told me 10 years ago about $200,000, that's that's a rich man. $200,000. So, so there's a lot of pressure just to survive. You know, in terms of a general guidance of of how to keep the shifice, I think it's important a person is connected. A person has to connect himself to something. We can't do it alone. You have to find a shul. Either you live near yeshiva. Amazing. But most of us don't or it doesn't work. It's for younger boys. But we're connected to a shul that it's not just a shul where we come to davin. There's a shul where they have learning going on. And I'm connected to a kabur of people that are growing. And we also think about where we living. Am I living in a neighborhood which the people unfortunately are not so connected to to Rrooknas? They're all just talking about their their newest clothing. I have to think about where I'm where I want to live. You know where who we surround ourselves with has a tremendous impact. So you have been dealing with struggling Baham for a long time. And I think that it's fair to say that certainly in America we've come a long way as a society in Kalis in dealing with struggling boys. Can one make the argument that we've we've developed such grand institutions and retreats and camps where it could almost be conceived as a path where you have a mediocre Bakar who's in a good yeshiva but it's traditional it's cold it's the reamer old it's it's dark it's intense and he looks across the pond and his friends who he grew up with who are struggling but are in this yesa with you know, emotionally dynamic rebum and it's fun and there's comeitses and there's trips and there's whatever. Do is there a risk that we're going to be attracting bahim who do not need gen that genuine who if those places weren't plastered all over the world they would muster up the selfm motivation to to come to seder to learn is that a problem is that a problem that there's no way around it what would you say that's an excellent question I know there are people I don't know specific people I was a rebi waterberry for many years. I know people that had tinas on waterberry because the kids didn't they felt that the kids were not happy in their yeshiva because they saw the action going on waterberry and maybe some kids left their yeshiva uh to go to waterberry you know but I want to tell you as follows every boy needs and there's no reason why we shouldn't be putting into every shiva I'm not saying we fire old but we should be putting into that our dynamic that do connect with the boys that can give the boys support a lot of is giving I literally just wrote an article it's being published this week in the number one ingredient in in my opinion the number one ingredient in is is giving a kid respect is making a kid feel that he's important because he is not because you're lying because he is he's a Ben Hashem. She's a Basm. Most of the kids I mentioned before that fall off is because they don't feel good about themselves. So the reason why many of these yeshivas that work with kids are struggling and are successful is because they're giving the children the they're giving the children the encouragement. They're giving the children the space. There needs to be in my opinion different yeshivas of course but I don't think there's a yeshiva that should not have tremendous amount of tremendous amount of warmth for the boys to say that this top yeshiva where the guys are mamish learning you know 247 to say that they don't need the the warmth in that other yeshiva I wouldn't say those words I would say they may be able to survive without it. Of course, we do have unfortunately fall out from the top yeshivas. Sometimes fall out while they're still in MFA. Some fall out when they raise medish and sometimes fall out five 10 years into marriage leenu. There are a lot of people that just go through the system. They don't want to rock the boat. They don't want to mess up their shak. They don't want to upset their parents. Everything looks good on the outside. So they keep going and going and going but there's a lot of unhappiness a lot of challenges that are not being dealt with. So if a yeshiva that has warm and has a lot of you know is drawing and oh they want to leave because they want that. So learn from them in my opinion bring the now I want to be clear here. Yes, some of those yeshivas have a lot of allowances and a lot of free-for-allness that that they need to have for the kids that they have. The kid that's learning well in a strong yeshiva doesn't want that. He doesn't want that. Even those kids in those yeshivas that are letting them dress and and and not go to Shia and whatever it is, like I mentioned before, those kids are in pain. Those kids are usually fallouts have usually been rejected from their elementary schools from their previous misfa often unfortunately from from their families from their communities. They've been rejected. So it's a big mistake. I tell this to parents like when they have one older child that's struggling and they make allowances for them and they say, "Well, my younger child now he's going to want a smartphone and he's going to want to do that. He's going to want thing. So I I can't let my older child have those allowances because then my younger child's going to want to." It's not exactly the case. If a child's happy and he's doing well, he's not looking around. So, he's not looking around saying, "Oh, I want to be like that kid with long hair and doing whatever he wants." That kid's struggling. I'm happy. He's happy. He's happy where he is in yeshiva. And Barashem, the kids by the for the most part that are in the strong yeshivas are very happy. And the yeshivas are doing a great job. Do I feel I don't know which ones. Do I feel I'm sure there's some of them that need to give the kids more I'll tell you the problem, the challenge I think there is in the very stark yeshivas. When every kid in in that yeshiva is learning till 12:00 at night, I think it's very hard for that child who learns till 12:00 to feel special. And very often he's trying to learn till 12:30 to 1:00 so he can feel special. And that to me is tragic. How special it is a bakar learning not till 12:00 it be 10 o'clock. however many hours how special it is that the Bakar is learning Tyra and I feel we have to do a better job and I'm not pointing fingers at any yeshiva but we have to do a better job of making every kid feel deservedly so that he's a wow you're a bent tyra you're so you don't have to out compete and unfortunately some yes suffered terribly from this the competition you don't have to compete it's not you're the best bak because you got the best you learned the most hours Every's a star. Every's precious. I think we have to do a better job that every feels like a million dollars. He gets the he needs and he won't be looking at other places because oh, they're getting the Rebi loves him. The Rebi doesn't love you. That's a bro. That's a bro. That's a bro. You have tinas on another yeshiva because are so nice. So be nicer. They're right. Be nice. Be nice. What would you say to a bacher who's in a mainstream yeshiva but he's not the top 1% and therefore he is struggling to find selfworth and he is slowly declining but not that he wants to and not that he's struggling doesn't have any emotional health issues it's just he's not the top one and the top 1% often are the ones that get the spotlight either the top 1% or the the top the the bottom 1% which is always in the manal's office and gets all the attention from the manal because he pulled the fire alarm where he got caught with cigarettes, right? So, it's those two and then everyone else is like so what do you do with a a ber who just coasting but he doesn't want and he genuinely wants to be he but he's mediocre and he becomes internally a little bit depressed. What would you say to such? Listen, if I met with him privately, I would try to give him a lot of and try to explain to him how special he is. But he would never come to the point he would never go to a a Rebi and express his feelings because his rebi is 70 and is a magir and not the type and there's no second that's in his whatever that so he's on he's on an island. Well he said he's coming to me though. Oh okay. So what would you looking at this podcast? What would you tell him? What would I tell him? I would tell him I'll tell you. I'll tell you every year is incredibly precious. every year is the son and daughter of Hashem. And by the way, that's where our self-esteem should come from immediately. Not how many hours I learned, not what a great I am. My self-esteem comes because I am a child of Hashem and I important and Hashem values me. Hashem loves me and I'm important and my actions count. We just had the par of the parasite whenever this is broadcasted. But yeah, par doesn't see him and the repeats the nasi each nasi's carbanis. So different explanations but recently I have a simple that I like the wants to tell you you could be bringing the same carbanas. I know the each person has different kavanas but without that you're bringing the same carbon he's bringing the same carbon. The fact that he's bringing the same carbon doesn't make your carbon less precious. The fact that you're learning Tyra and he's also learning Tyra doesn't make your learning less your Tyra learning Tyra less precious. Your mitzvah is precious. Your Tyra is precious. You are precious. And you should try to find yourselves find yourself people that will help you feel that way and appreciate that. H so how do we develop individuality and creativity and uniqueness in a world where you have 6,000 people in your grade you have a thousand people on your block I'm assuming let's say you're living in Lakewood you're living in Muny or you're living in San Jose but you're you're in a yeshiva that has 500 people how do you strike a balance between being socially with it and normal and up to date and you know you're one of the guys but you're also an individual and you're you have your individuality and your imagination your creativity which I think are integral components of being of achieving greatness and I don't mean becoming a how do someone maintain or create individuality in a world where it's so easy to just be like everyone else. So I think the challenge you're referring to is really a challenge that you know happens in when Baham are younger, right? If you look at people that are married 30 years old, 40 years old, we don't really have that question because everyone's doing something different. Everyone has their own family. There's a lot of individuality. But in yeshiva, they're all wearing their white shirts and their hand jacket and they're learning and doing the same thing. And by the way, for that reason, some bakham try to find individuality through, you know, they can't wear colored shirt in most yeshivas, but try to find socks. Maybe they could sneak in a black sock with a stripe, whatever. So I can have my individuality. No, but that's my point. They're screaming. So, so, so I want to explain, but I want to I want to tell those bakram and I want to just share the idea. You know, I allow a little bit more in my yeshiva individuality with with dress, but the individuality clothing is a very cheap way to express individuality. I'm not knocking it for someone that needs to do it, but at the end of the day, if what makes me different than you is that, you know, we look pretty much right. We're both wearing black jackets, white shirts, no ties. So we look beards, we looks look the same. You know, you look a little younger, less gray hair. But you know, if our individuality is that I'm wearing different clothing than you, that's pretty weak. Individuality is not in clothing. Individuality is in our thoughts and our actions. Now, while we're younger, a lot of our actions are going to look the same. But as we get older, that thought process, that development that you're working on yourself, if you've been working on your midos, for example, if you've been working on yourself as a person, as you get older, be hashem, you will be able to give and offer and express and your individuality will shine. While you're in yeshiva, there's limited opportunities for individuality to shine. And if you're and if you try too hard, it's, you know, you just stand out. But inside yourself individuality is found inside the person and then it blossoms as you get older. So it's very important you think for yourself. You could think you know you could think for yourself. Your shashiva gives a schmoo on a certain topic. I get in trouble for saying this and you don't agree you don't like it. Individuality means that I have a brain. My rebi taught us aes he taught us that just because your rebi said something you need to understand it. You have to be responsible for it. If your Rebby tells you to do something, if your Rebi tells you to shoot somebody, you have to understand what he's telling you. You can't just walk around, my Rebi said it. You have to own whatever your Rebi taught you. I'm not saying there's never a place to say I don't understand my Rebi said it. But you have to own it. So this Bakar who you want individuality when the Rashiva is talking, try to understand what he's saying. If you don't understand it, go ask him. If he doesn't have the time for you, talk to some other Rebi or Rav and say I don't I don't know if I understand this. Even in Gumar learning so many times a Rebi says in the t in the garra and I don't like it. So like conforms like okay but that's that's what the rashiva said. No that's not Tyra Tyra is yours. So individuality is in our mind. We have to teach bakram to have individuality in their in their thoughts in their development. It doesn't have to be with clothing. You know every Shiva could have its own dress code but to teach them to be independent thinkers. That's what my rebi taught my rebiere was a very unique person and he really taught us to be to think for ourselves and that's why his tidam are quite different but the funny thing is that a lot of times people can actually spot us out and say oh you probably learned by right par because there's a unique maybe the stands out the uniqueness but but he taught us to think for ourselves so you mentioned that clothing is probably the cheapest way of expressing yourself. You also mentioned that it typically weeds itself out when one gets into adulthood just because of the nature of of having kids in a family makeup. But you you do see so many 40, 50, 60 year olds who they're going to wear a $5,000 tie, which is essentially their way of saying, "I'm going to spend $5,000 for you to approve of me." or I am going to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a $500,000 car, which it's not that much more comfortable than a $40,000 car. It's a $500,000 you're going to spend for other people to observe and say, "Hey, this guy is unique. This guy is impressive." So, it seems like a major You disagree that it's not coming from there. I I disagree with you that that's their goal. Their goal is not to establish individuality. Their goal is to receive approval. Their goal is to receive and that goes back to what I said before our job as parents and foremost I think this the most important thing in as I mentioned before is to build people's self-esteem when we don't feel good about ourselves we look for other people's approval if I wasn't the biggest but now I'm very successful financially and by the way many of them suffered when they were in yeshiva being the and now Now they have a chance to finally get people's approval. Now they have a chance to get the Rashiva coming asking him for money and be honored. I'm not saying people get honored for this reason. It's a big to get honored but people want to establish themselves to get other people's approval. I wrote a whole English safer on if you saw it. It's called run after the right. The more someone feels good about themsel the less they need other people's approval as well. If we really work on ourelves ourselves, we become more intelligent. Oh, because I'm driving a fancy car and everyone is impressed. That's a reason to that I should feel good about myself, right? Isn't it like the should be embarrassed? You should be embarrassed. They they have to spend that much money. You know, I'm not Listen, I'm not judging anybody people. I'm very against judging people's spendings. You know, people say, you know, um why is he flying private? Why is he spending the money? I don't judge any people's spendings. I don't have the kind of money. So I don't have the opportunity to to withhold. If I had the kind of money and was not spending it, we could talk. I don't judge people's spendings and many of those people are so generous with stuck and such giving people. I don't judge other people's spending. I think people only judge other people's spending because they're jealous etc. Unless they're a RV who's trying to be mik his you know it doesn't bother me. I don't look I don't think. So I want to say like this. I'm just saying I'm not judging why the guy's driving his fancy car. Is it just to get a people's approval? etc. etc etc. But there's no question that there's a lot of that. And you'll say, well, isn't that shallow? Like, you know, that this is what this is uh this is what uh you think is is valuable. They have a fancy car. But I don't it's not just about the car, right? If if I I heard this from someone else recently, so it's not my idea, but it's quite simple. If I'm driving $500,000 car, then you understand that I'm running a successful business and I feel good about myself that I run a successful business. So instead of taking advertisements out there and saying I have a successful business, my car, my watch, my suit, my bar mitzvah, my wedding shows that I'm a successful person financially. But I will but I will say that if we were giving the co to people when they're younger, people would have a less need for it and less interest in it. And also there's another thing here. if the people around us in general weren't so listen if you had people I'm not you know I'm not saying I'm above gashmas but all I could tell you is that and again obviously I'm I'm a I'm so I'm just just giving you an example but if everyone around a person was like me they're not pulling up with a $500,000 car I'll probably make them feel good because I'm nice so it's a it's such a nice car but the end of the Hey, they're not bringing me the car. Hopefully, they'll bring me a garum. They'll give me a a vart because they know I'm not going crazy. So, we have to raise we have to raise people to feel good about themselves because they're yidden and proud Jews. And if we we were more proud of being Jews, we'd be a little bit less proud about things like money. Very well said. So I want to talk about one final thing which is a difficult topic but in the topic of brim who are struggling with iny kadusha many many bakim have this issue where they've tried everything they're on an island because yeah they had they they went to Walmart during second sader one day they bought a $15 smartphone and they could do whatever they want. They tried to put a filter on it. they can take off the filter. No one knows that they have it. It's essentially an immensely personal battle that I don't know what percentage of Baham have to deal with, but a lot. What advice would you give to people bakim especially who are for the for very often battling this in private and in secret with immense sadness and depression that comes along with the pain of falling in this tsunami of tum of tuma. So yeah, I don't think the problem the challenge is limited to Bakram and certainly if a Bakr is facing challenges, it doesn't just necessarily run away when he's older and plenty of adults struggle. So I think it's important that it's not just a to point out it's not just a bakham struggle. I rarely talk to my own my own about and I explain to them why and I'll tell you what I do tell them. This is what I do tell them. The greatest challenge of technology is not what we see as much as what happens to us after we see. The atar is great after we looked at something to tell us what a bum we are because we looked at that. And then he plays back every schmoo we heard since ninth grade about what it does to you and what type of person you are if you look at stuff. And I don't want to be another one of those recordings for that bakar when he falls. So therefore I don't talk so much about the severity after myself but I don't talk the severity of what I talk to bakim primarily is about encouragement about not giving up. When a person feels depressed feels bad when he that he watched something he shouldn't have watched it's actually not a mitzvah. It's actually a what happens when a bakr feels bad. He may watch again. He may wake up late the next morning etc. And I think it's a terrible message if ever it's said like if someone's watching this then how could he be learning tis or how could he be dvening that's that's like to me that sounds like aarsis. I mean a and mitzvah don't cancel out and a doesn't cancel out a mitzvah learning dvening doing mitzvah gives us strength ultimately to be able to push out the the zahara I I have to share with you a great vart I thought before then maybe it'll come up is there a sitter there so we say we say in we say you should see the and remember all thee So it's a because a pic or two later we say again it's amazing about ding so many questions that we just can just keep reading and don't notice we say twice lantis what's going on what's the what's the remembering twice the soperno says something amazing the soperno if I understand them correctly says that lantis is not going on seeing the titus we already did that already you saw the tit it's a continuation ofu Don't get distracted by all the by all the desires in order to focus on Hashem. The goal of not looking and separating ourselves is not just a mission onto itself. It's part of the whole mission of of getting close to Hashem. It's positive. It's not negative. When a bucker sees something, an adult sees something he shouldn't shouldn't look at. I think the most important thing is is he doesn't get depressed. Depression is not about Hashem. I'll prove it to you. If it was about Hashem, so why am I sleeping late tomorrow? Why am I why am I messing up further? Imagine the husband always comes up home late. He's apologized. I feel so bad. I feel so bad. And then he comes home later and later. If you feel so bad that he went against Hashem, so then why are you continuously doing it? And why you're not dinging more the next day? Why you not waking up early to learn to make up? You can never cancel, but to show Hashem, now I'm learning more because I saw something I shouldn't see. Now I want to learn more. So it's not really about Hashem. It's about myself. I feel bad. I feel like a loser. And that's why oner people are not depressed. People are happy because they're doing shuva. I'm getting closer to Hashem. It's positive, right? It's an unbelievable thing. my favorite pia. Hope I get the words right. So we sing to Hashem, we are your people and then right afterwards and now that we sing if someone be listening from outside and hearing that going on say what were you guys just saying? Uh we were guilty, we rebelled, we stole. sugar because we have a sim we want to be better. It's positive. We want to be better. Depression that bakim feel and adults feel when they look at something is not a mitzvah. It's it's I wanted to say and someone told me afterwards it says it somewhere. Maybe I saw it. But the says so I want to suggest the thoughts of sin are worse than sin. It means the thoughts after you sin, not before you sin. The thoughts after you sin are more difficult. They cause much more damage than the sin. The reason why people are torn apart today is not because they saw things they shouldn't see. It's because afterwards they felt like pieces of garbage and it caused them to fall apart. I tell my bakim, you looked at something you shouldn't look at. Do me a favor. Learn for five minutes afterwards. Right afterwards, learn for five minutes. One word of Tyra is 613 mitzvah. You'll get thousands and thousands of mitzvah, more mitzvah than you got a virus. Of course, it doesn't cancel allow you to do chuva, but at the end of the day, you want to show hashem you messed up. Now, I want to do something good. If people would do this, I think ultimately they would get clean, too. Because I'm going to learn now. I messed up. I'm going to go to chakras the next day. I'm going to learn and eventually I will push it out. It ties back. I'm sorry, but to me like so much of Yiddish comes down to the person watching what it shouldn't look at it destroys his self-c and it shouldn't okay we could feel bad we could regret it and that helps us maybe not do it again but end of the day I'm still Hashem still cares about me Hashem still wants me to learn Hashem still wants my ding my covet has to stay strong my self-cov has to stay strong most people unfortunately if they're not told this and sometimes told the opposite if you look at this you're this It's funny. No one ever says about that if you say you're a bomb. You're Russia. You can't die. And the talks about it, but we we don't give those shm. Why don't we give those? Because well, I know I say I I know struggle. I don't get them depressed. And all of a sudden comes to boom. Full core press. Boom. Let's beat them up. No one says even because you don't want get guys to like lose their mind. you got which again you know it's scary but it's it's a word so we don't say talk that way because we don't get people depressed and all of a sudden we think it's okay to tell that if they looked at something people they looked at something like that's it the end you messed up it's not as bad as you messed up messed up so now pick up a safer learn for five minutes get up five minutes earlier to shakers tomorrow if people would do this I believe they will get themselves out of the mess part of the mess is the depression is the giving up this this dispondency there are such a there is such a thing of addiction but I want to tell you you know and where you define addiction don't define addiction is complicated but so much mental health problems and so much addiction comes from one word to me it's the magic word what's the magic word cover just that people should feel good about themselves we should feel good we're yidden we're precious And by the way, it keeps the person humble because it's not I'm only I'm precious. Rapillo, you're precious. The the ninth grader in your mifa and car is four years younger than you. He's precious. The three-year-old is precious. Ayid is precious. This is what we need to give over. The one message, you know, if this is where we end with, we don't have to end. The message I want to give over is this is what we need to go. the if you want to talk about one era that we need to get going and cla more and more and more is every is precious every's valuable every's important that's it if we feel good about ourselves we also stop looking at these things and doing these things because I feel too good to be involved with that excellent so just as a final takeaway message what would you say to the thousands and thousands of Young men and women out there starting their lives, whether recently married or been married for 5 years, who want to stay on fire as Yidden, what message would you say to it retain their co to put to the forefront their unfathomable preciousness and instead of living a life after 120 looking back and saying, "I just chased Narishkite my whole life." really really focusing on the fire of Yudishkite as opposed to the narish guide of the rest of the world. What parting message would you say to help them enable them to live a life where they're on fire? So my my thought would be I'll start like this. I was recently at some type of panel by a good convention. Don't worry it was at a side room a small thing but okay still was still was a coveret and talk about another time. There's real cover and fake cover. That was a fake covenant. Although it was a real coven that somebody asked me, but after that it's fake. Right. Right. Anyways, you know what I'm saying? Someone has asked you to be Messiah or get a braha. The one that asked you gave you the covet. Everything after that is is a shell. Okay. But anyways, so they asked me this question. How do the question was how do you deal with technology? How do you deal with with with social media and everything like that? And I said that a person who doesn't have is not busy. Person's not busy with good things is going to end up being busy probably with narish. You can't tell a person get off social media, get rid of your smartphone, get rid of these things and then have a void with nothing to do. Unfortunately, today people have a lot of anxiety. So then if they have nothing to do, they're anxious. But you can't leave people with voids. you know the we just we just said you know [Music] don't get distracted with all the other things in order that you should remember in nor should be focused on doing the mitzvah so I would tell people to get busy we need to be busy I started my own learning project recently it's much changed my life the last you know year or so we need to be busy we need to be busy so we have to get busy with things. We have to be busy with with women, busy with find different people may talk to us, you know, find shim that we like, find that we like, find projects that interest us. We need to be busy with good things, men, busy with learning. We need to be busy with good things. If we're not busy with good things, we're not busy with good things, then I think it's inevitable, as tell us, we're going to end up with sin. We end up not feeling good about ourselves. Again, we should recognize who we are despite everything we've done wrong in the past. I just shared with my an incredible gar that was who killed millions and millions of people and it's hard to say it over if it's a gamarra in gam became a gad. How he was accepted, I don't know, but he became a gadic. He became a yid. And I think there's a godless onrain's part. He should have said, "I killed millions of people. It's over. Kill yourself. You can't. It's forbidden." Okay? So, lock yourself in a room. He became He became a Yid. He didn't say, "I killed millions of people, so my life is over." We cannot take away the past. Certainly, most of us didn't murder anybody. We can't take away the past, especially if we hurt hurt people. We could do chuva and hashem is a lot of compassion but there's the whole present and future but we need to be busy. We need busy with doing good things. Thank you very much Ra Castel for coming on and joining. Thank you. A lot of fun.