Do You Actually Have Emunah? - Judaism Without Apologizing - Rabbi Dovid Sapirman

Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Judaism without apologizing. I am here standing in front of the Torah links kirav center in Lakewood, New Jersey where I just finished interviewing Rabb David Saperman. For those of you who don't know Rabbi Saperman, he is someone whose life's work of spreading amuna and hashem touched the hearts and minds of tens of thousands of people around the world. He is a veteran makanik with over 50 years of experience in outreach and he is the founder of the anim foundation aiming to strengthen muna in Jews all over the world and he's become a real powerful force in saving the soul of the next generation and he travels all over the Jewish world to give shiim and workshops on how to instill rocksolid belief in Hashem especially in an age where questions are all over the place and distractions are louder than ever and falsehood often makes a lot more noise than the truth. And his popular book, Amuna, a refresher course, has become a go-to resource for anyone looking to deepen their clarity and connection to the fundamentals of Jewish belief. And he is a lot more than just a teacher. Rabbi Samperman is a rebby to meim. He is a thinker for our times. He is a fearless defender of the truths that we sometimes forget to teach clearly. And if you think this is going to be another cute conversation about Bahun and Amuna, think again. This is some fearless passion and some serious fire. So, buckle up and enjoy the episode. You are watching Judaism without apologizing. In a world where everyone seems to have not just a microphone but a megaphone, the voices of our gadm or Rabanim and Russia yeshiva far too often seem to get lost in the noise. This podcast is here to change that. I'm your host, Hillel Eisenberg. Join me as we sit down with our nation's leaders as they address the Ashkoffic challenges that matter most without the fluff and without the drama with truth that doesn't flinch. Buckle up cuz this isn't your typical podcast. This is Judaism without apologizing. Rabbi Saperman, thank you very much for joining the Judaism Without Apologizing podcast. It's an honor to have you on. Can we begin by you just sort of giving a brief history of yourself and the foundation that you started and sort of the inspiration as to why you started it. So uh I grew up in a in a secular family and was uh introduced to Yiddish kite six weeks before my mitzvah. It's a long story. I went to yeshiva in New York run by the two famous Rabbi London brothers and uh after three years I went to Philadelphia yes stayed there for four years. I went to Panovich for a half a year and uh because I wasn't well there I so I came back to America and I went to Lakewood where I married a year later and learned in the ko for five and a half years. Then I became the mashki and a rebiwasim in Los Angeles. And after that I came to Toronto where I've been living for 51 years and have concurrently been in Kiru and Yeshiva Ken taught in many of the schools. I was a rebi in the Yeshivas Toronto for eight years another high school for three years. So I've been around I was I taught girls for a while. I teach uh so I've been pretty much been around my experience is 57 years. >> Wow. So you at what point did you get passionate about learning teaching and spreading imuna? >> So it's like this. I went to Yeshiva's near Israel. Must have been uh 2000 uh 1991 maybe 90 92 and I taught there for eight years. I was a ninth grade rebby but I but I gave a vad for the bishim once a week for the next for the last seven years. And that was and that was uh basically the foundation of because I saw from my my experiences that the generation is severely lacking in their conviction in the moon. You can be a myman. I'll tell you a story in a minute. You can be a myman and say I believe it and live your whole life that way. But do you really believe it? Is it clear to you that there's a revenge lamb who gave us a hari? Not necessarily. So I that was what so the so those lectures were the van was taped on cassettes. Eventually it was done again in front of a few bakim on on in in a series of 10 lectures on CDs and then it was done over revised one more time for a different group of bakim small group and those CDs are called know what to answer to yourself which is basically what the whole story is. It's not enough to know what to answer to someone else. You have to know what to answer to yourself. It has to be so clear to you yourself that you can answer to someone else or even if you're not asked. But that amuna has to be that I know not I surmise I agree to sign on the dotted line because I grew up from I'm a no vat you have to know. No means without a shadow of a doubt tells us on the you have to come to the point of the belief in Hashem the mitzvah to believe in Hashem to it's clear to you that it's impossible otherwise impossible otherwise and that is how how we have to view the exist distance of and eventually when you get through the first two then you have to understand the amas of and for this purpose so these CDs the first set of CDs deals with matas existence of of a creator and and also 30 pages about the silliness of evolution which goes hand in hand with Matias because the whole purpose of evolution was to get around the belief in a in a creator and a designer. And then when you finish that then you can easily show the amus of and so for for all of these subjects we have audio lectures but in the last 10 years I've written four books and the first one is about called amuna a refresher course it's been read by about 4,000 people and and it's about the existence of a creator again and silliness of evolution. So did you see out in the amongst the bahim you were teaching or the people you met that there was a blatant need for this or >> I've seen it for I've seen it I in in in my in in in a the first book that I wrote which was before these books which was for Torah Misora I gave a workshop there and they asked me to write a a booklet about the necessity to teach amuna so I wrote there and I've been doing this for 20 years this was in 2009 N. So somebody called me up, somebody who was a former Talmet who said, "Rabbi, you were speaking to us about these things 30 years ago." So this is an old story. I saw this long, long ago. Long, long ago. So what would you say to people who say, "Hey, listen. We have blossoming, flourishing bayakovs and schools that are bursting at the seams. You go to Avoam, you can't get a parking spot. You go to BMG, you can't get a seat. And they're learning and they're davening and they're seeming to follow hala. Would you jump in and say there is still a major need to upgrade learning? >> Let's put it this way. First of all, this is not my own thought. We have Bashem. We have Rabbines and Rebelli who who who gave us a video endorsement and Rabb introduced this in the to a to a Torah convention. He said that the yeshivists are offered many different curriculums, but they have no time for them for extracurriculars. But there's one curriculum that they are not allowed to skip and that is the curriculum of amuna. There should be special courses in amuna and amuna should be in all the limudin and he was also kind enough to mention levak the written and audio materials of the anim foundation and then you have zev and you have ruben feestein wrote in my in the third book that I wrote he wrote that there's this generation we see a yurida no an awesome yurida a down a downward slide in amuna. We see it in this dor especially amongst the youth. >> So it how is it manifest? Meaning does he mean that the people who are struggling to remain on the derek are struggling with amuna or people who are regular? If you take the youth aside and let them ask what's on their mind in a place where they're not intimidated, you'd be amazed what questions you hear. You'll be amazed. I teach in the Toronto uh for the last 14 years just once a week for each eighth grade. I go through the whole series over the course of the year. So two weeks ago was my last time for the year and Abra stops me on the steps. He says, "Rebi, I want you to know this in a very school coming from." He said, "Rebi, I want you to know that before the year started, I didn't believe in Hashem." And that is all over when I got a phone call from a very Yeshivisha high school here in Lewood. So the wasn't the principal. The ma said, "Could you come down and speak for our girls?" So I said it's not practical for me to come from Toronto right now but why don't you take my to Rabbi Penas who also lectures on these things and he lives in my is much closer he'll come she said oh no she said we heard that re rabbi when he finishes his talk he has a question and answer session and our girls have no questions anyway the end of The story was that he went to speak there and I don't know exactly what he said although I can imagine and after the sheer three of the girls that have no questions asked him could we speak to you privately and he said of course they said how do we know there's hashem I have heard this question many times Many times I had here in Lakewood about 11 years ago. We had a meeting about with elementary school manal a small group but to how to incorporate amuna in even in elementary school which can be done. So uh I was told by the person who was running the meeting afterwards that one of them in Alam said to him that just recently his high school daughter came into his study very crestf fallen and she said aba how do we know there's hashem he was shocked but I was I'm not shocked because I hear it from the kids if you if you two people are standing by a One is looking up and one is looking down. The one who's looking up says, "Oh, what a beautiful blue J." The one who's looking down says, "There is no blue J. I don't see it." Well, if you don't look, you won't see it. I sat at a table once in one of the car live in Los Angeles in in Toronto rather and I didn't know the gentleman who was sitting across the table from me. I was working on my computer writing my second book about to shab and uh since I'm not totally unfriendly so I introduced myself and he introduced himself he says oh he says you're Rabbi Sman oh he says I was told to look you up but I didn't I'm one of your misnogden I don't believe in talking about amuna Okay. So, we spoke for an hour. The end. He said, "I'm not as big a miss as I was before." So, I said to him the following question. If you never engage your students in these issues and they wouldn't dare ask you because they know that their questions will not be welcomed, how do you know what doubts and questions they have? And he said, "On this, you're right. We don't know." >> Wow. Rabb Katsk Levvenstein I had the course to be in Panovich for six months when Rab Katk was old but going strong going very strong in one of his that's copied in one of his he says as follows I was I was aroused today to say to speak about what I'm going to speak but something that happened I met a ber I suppose it was from disha And I said to him, "Are you a M?" Said, "Of course, of course I'm a M." He said, "Of course you are a M. Do you know why you're a M?" And he had nothing to say. He had nothing to say. And then he goes into a whole long schmoo that if you don't know that you're a because spoke was then you you missed the boat completely. You missed the boat. And he said it's possible that this person will live through 70 80 years and it's never I never know why he should be a he just attached himself to the am of and he says and I know that this bak is not unique most of the generation is similar is similar this is that they have without real meaning. But just to zone in on that for a second, what is what are the potential negative ramifications of living lens of life where I'm talking where you're and you have a whole blossoming FL family that's all Ben and you're learning in Kyle and you're >> but you have what are the potential negative ramifications of that? >> So I'll I'll tell you a story. I uh was invited to Yavna High School in Cleveland for a Shabbaton, a special Shabbaton because there was a 12th grade that had many many questions. And uh finally around before Pesak, they made a special Shabbaton and I came to specifically address their questions. They sent me about 60 questions and I spent their whole number of days just going through their questions and answering their questions. There was a public lecture in Cleveland in one of the shooles. Uh maybe were 120 people there. I spoke about that time I think I was I was uh selling my first book and uh I finished and I went out to my car and a lady followed me. She followed me and she came close to the car and she began to cry hysterically. Now, I wasn't going to drive off. So, I waited until she calmed down and told me what what's on her mind. So, she said to me, "Last night, my husband told me he doesn't believe in anything anymore." Now this lady when she told me her name which I of course won't repeat her father is a very senior majira in the United States and she was probably in her mid30s at the time of this conversation and you can be sure that her husband was chosen for her because he was a Matsuyan in yeshiva. And I have no question that he went on the blogs or read the wrong stuff. And since he had absolutely no training in how to answer the the questions of the Kim, so he believed what they said. Now I never heard from her again because I think she went for help elsewhere. This is not the only call I got like that from former Kyle. You're saying that the the number one obvious ramification is people could literally go off of there. >> That's one. The second one is that the Nvi doesn't want us to live mitzvah. This statement that I'm going to tell you now is in the Balto's writings which the people think that the B that believe in inut. Now there is no definition of because I don't think it's an ancient term. It's a recent term. I don't but he says as follows in ding we sayu shouldn't it be au with first the god of our fathers and then it's our god. He says no. He says because the eager is it has to be au. He says there's two types of amuna. Two types of amuna amuna because you accept the msor and you don't ask any questions. You don't ask any questions. You just go ahead and that's wonderful. That's wonderful. However, however, there is because it's very dry. There's no his llavus. It's mitzvah. It's like like rehearsed. You're just going through the motions. But when you work through the amuna, when you work through the amuna and you see that it's the absolute truth, then you serve hashem. He says but in that case if you work based on your research and your thinking about the questions so then you have the chance if somebody comes with a really good question you can you can you can get knocked off the board. So he says the mitzvah of is both you need both says it in by the by the I think by the mist that he says he says there's two types of amuna there's and there's and the alum says come out the same words as theto this is this is a fundamental mistake Revolva writes in a letter from Stockholm after the after the war when he was still in Sweden. A Talmid wrote him an amuna question. It doesn't say what the question was, but the letter is printed and the letter says, "You probably think that an amuna question should be chased out of your heart like a like a thought of doing an a." He says, "No, my Talmud, no. This is an opportunity to be you should know. You should know that there's this is your opportunity. You think that in a world that that the evidence of Hashem is everywhere that you don't have answers available to answer all the questions in amuna. So that's the second problem. I once spoke to a very in London. I didn't really know him but I I knew I knew someone related to him but I happened to get an opportunity to speak to him. So he he knew what we were doing. So he said amun is very important. And he says, "But it bothers me much more that the zilzle, the lacadasical attitude towards davening. People go in, they go out, and maybe they look on their cell phones or they're not paying attention. They're justing by road." I said to him, "Are you confident that they're sure that there's someone listening?" Before you can d properly, you have to you have to know. That's that's what Rabbi said to his is you have to know who before you stand if you don't know that so that is I mean the problem with ding is almost a universal problem we hear from across the universe do you think that if you would take a poll of forget about kids adults people who strugg everyone struggles with domining what percentage of them would say the reason they struggle struggle in to concentrate in domining is because they have doubts. >> They wouldn't say that. >> No, no, they wouldn't say hooked up to a lie detector. >> They wouldn't say that. It's not a question of lying. They wouldn't say it because they don't even realize how how little conviction this was stated. This was stated by Rabstein in a safer one of the either he wrote it or it was quoted in his name. Um I think it's called bisomer he said as follows. He saw that a god will explain why there's so so little attention is paid to fill today. He said because people don't realize what trill can do for them what it can accomplish. He said no no we don't need that. He said if they would have proper that they're standing before hashem then would be a very inspiring experience. These are not my words. These are the words of >> So, so let me ask you this question. That's the other guy. He's 30. He went to Amazinghas. He's he does he does he has a hard time focusing during the day. He knows the pre he knows the proofs. He read to Believe, you know, he's Noah. No, he's he's read a couple books. He knows what to answer basically, but he still spaces out. What what steps should he take would you suggest he take? >> Meaning if you're saying amuna is his problem. So then what what steps should he take to solve that issue? >> I didn't say that the only reason why people don't din properly is amuna but it's a big part of it. >> No. So, so let's let's say he wants to he wants to explore that avenue that perhaps the problem is just lack even subliminal lack of emotion. >> So, Rab Katskll said I didn't hear it from him but I heard it thirdand from someone who heard it from someone who heard it from him. He said as follows when you learn alith and you finish you never go back to learning olive. You you learned it already with amuna. You never take your eyes off the basics. That has to be constantly reviewed and refreshed. So if somebody is an is a mman because he he read a few books. Yeah, it's true. Okay, good. It it will help. I I will tell you that I have experience with people that are yeshivaite that are in their 30s or 40s that told me that after they heard the audio CDs that they had a different kind of rash a different kind of davening is not something you get once and you're and you and you're and you're finished it has to be constantly refreshed >> you saying your would be to learn continue learning >> that's one that's one there are other issues in ding ding is an ancient problem there's no question >> but but certainly the lack of proper amuna is is is a big part of it and I want to tell you what said and I believe the said the same thing it's written in But it's supposedly it says it in the BMP's writings before Mashiach comes is going to be as hard for the door as if in the time of Elahu Bahara when he made the test with the worshippers of the Bal and in the 10 tribes and and the fire came down and burnt up his car and They bowed down. They said, "Hashem, what? Imagine what how it would have been if something had gone wrong and the fire had come down and skipped over and jumped over to the misbal and burnt up their then it would have been a little bit harder to say." We're living in a door. The oldbish said as follows. So I've heard it was never easier to be a Jew than in America. You have total freedom. Total freedom. You want to wear your tits out, you want to make a yeshiva, you can you can do it. But it was never harder to want to be a Jew than in America. There are so many things pulling us in other directions. And the more we jump after the material way of life of western society, the more we're into the gashmas, the less we feel the sense of romance. So can I just pause for on that point? So I isn't it interesting though that in Europe where we were dealing much more with a hcala an intellectual battle >> so I could I could hear why amuna would be immensely necessary to battle that battle but in America especially the further removed we get from the 1970s and the Vietnam war and the wave of intellectual rebelliousness amongst especially younger people nowadays I do cure in Princeton university. the the the the philosophical attitude that people have is much less >> that's true fiery >> and therefore and therefore even when they when they starve even even the kids that grow up in bak okay but if they growing up in benb Iraq today is not 50 years ago there a lot of >> right so I'm saying the >> one second so so the so the answer is very simple that if you don't think about it so you don't have it If you don't think about questions, if you don't think about what how Hashem created you or if there's Hashem, if you don't ever think about it, you just go through the motions, you buy your slurpees and your and and your and your ice cream and you go to your seder and you grow up and you go to the ky and then you have ch that's very nice, but but you but you're living like a machine. This is not this is not what the rebel wants from us. So the fact that they they're not intellectually inclined is not is not and not a reason not for them not to to to hear the amuna clearly and I know this from experience. I know this from experience. I told you that we have this we have an initiative on the first book. We have an initiative where uh anyone who in high school ninth grade through base medish or ninth grade through seminary who will undertake to read the first book and take a test on it will get $100. Don't ask where the money comes from because I still don't know. Um, so we have about an an incomplete list of about 200 students that took this test. And one of the questions on the test is, "What did you gain from taking the anim challenge?" The answers are not to be believed. Almost every one of the 200 said this has been lifechanging for me. I was at a here in Lakewood of one of my grandchildren and someone uh we started this about four years ago. So this a few years ago I get a message that there's a lady who wants to speak to me. Right. I go over, I sneak behind the mita and I go over to there as no and she's standing there with two daughters. She said, "My daughters took this test. I won't tell you which school they were in. They're in a very Yeshua high school. It's the same one where they have no questions. It's the same one where they have absolutely no questions." He said, "Since they would went through this, they are changed people. There's a there's a a baker in a in an out of town city who was as off the Dak as you can get. He found the book in the in his father's house on Shabas. He spent the whole Shabas reading it and he's back in yeshiva. He's back on the I heard this I heard the same story when I visited in in Detroit. Uh I was governing in the ko and somebody came over to me and said my son and the same story because because if you're just going through the motions okay if you are a teenager you are a 17year-old good-looking ber and there's a very nice looking girl down the block and she winks to you. What's to stop a boy from doing the wrong thing? because he grew up with a with a with with a lifestyle and a culture. What what they don't know won't hurt them. But if he believes that there's a reven who's watching him, that's a different story. You have to live with the reven. And that's not for your daughter. What most of the kids have is not for your daughter. And the adults don't have it much either, but they're but they're on the conveyor belt for so long that they just move along. But the kids are facing the challenges of life. So let me ask you this question. Let's say a parent, regular normal parent has a teenager that is struggling religiously, but they're not sure if it's religious rebellion because stemming from philos philosophical reasoning or they're having emotional struggles or according or you might say those are synonymous which >> they're not synonymous but they but they can be but but they can go together. They can go together. >> So one second. So, how is there a way to detect where the the answer is getting emotional help versus the answer is go see a good rub or read the an M book? Like is there a way to know or you should always read the Ani Mama book? >> They're cheaper by the case. >> They're cheaper than than therapy. >> So, it's like this. I I cannot tell you I cannot tell you that I am I am qualified. Maybe other people are. I'm not really qualified to tell you. I mean, if you if you have a a a young man from a broken home or a home where there's no bias or there's a lot of panos or there's somebody sick in the family, that that that's easy to tell. But sometimes there are emotional problems that you don't have an explanation for, but there but those are the kids who need it more than anybody. They need to have true amuna more than anybody. They have to know there's revenge running the world. and and that that's the there's there's a reason for it even though they don't understand but otherwise they have nothing to hang on to. I'm I'm in Yiddish Kite. It doesn't mean anything to me because I'm either attracted to the outside world which has a tremendous especially with the in with the uh in introduction of these machines and they have it on their fingertips. They have it on their fingertips. So what's what's the what's to keep them excited and and and and interested? So the the bakrram that are like learning they love learning. Okay. So the yeshivas are telling them that learn and learn and and it's wonderful wonderful but my experience has been that there are many areas that would inspire them that they're not getting in the mistas and is one of the main ones. Now, Torah um a few years ago made a program called Amunoska Balle and the Navam Minski introduced the program and basically he said exactly what the program of the imam foundation is. He said the youth have questions. The mandim have no training on how to answer and they have to be trained and so they made a training program. They made a training program. We've also made training programs. We've been very successful. We get feedback from all the time. We had hoped that we would get it into the system. I wasn't z to do that salant wanted to get mus for the balabatim wasn't it was successful in the yes is yeshivas so I wasn't wasn't successful on on on that but there are many mankim who use the material that they've learned from us in their classrooms many and uh it makes a it makes a tremendous difference is it going to help everybody is there any one pill that's going to cure for all sicknesses? No. Can I say that this is the answer? No, I don't say that. But I can tell you that from my experience that anyone who hears it, it generally makes a big difference in their lives. What what is your take on large groups in Krael who are attempting to inject more life and meaning into Yiddishkite, especially working people who went to Noras and are feeling a little bit dull in their Yiddish and their mahalik is to do a lot of dancing, neoasidos, a lot of songs, a lot of swag, a lot of colors, a A lot of music videos, a lot of external things to make yushes cool and hip and relevant and instead of needing to watch gayisha celebrities, we can >> It's all very good. >> It's good. >> It's all very good. >> Do you think it has staying power? Is it surface level? >> I can't tell you. >> No, I'm saying >> but I can tell you that it's not a replacement for amuna. >> It's not a replacement for amuna. Amuna is a must. It's a muna. I have a a whole le of of many generations who said it is an obligation to understand the amuna with your own that so this is not a replacement for amuna of course it's wonderful to go to a malaval or to a kumit >> but do you do you think that perhaps the answer should be a larger focus on amuna so you can go from within and develop an infrastruure I don't it's not a contradiction. Let them let them sing and dance. Let them sing and dance. Let them and let them let them be trained in a with the first night that an Imam gave a public lecture in November 2009. We spoke in the Yeshiva of Spring Valley for about 120 people, myself and Rapinas Young who was lecturing with us. So I got a a phone a phone message on after I after the the lecture was over. Rul Kamki left me a message. He says rev I learned it in Philadelphia. He said Reb I heard it was Gavaldi you should go and speak everywhere. I said I called him back and I said Rashiva the the encouragement is is precious but I want the rashiva to know what I plan to do and that is to in and tell me if this is correct. I want to give the kids a forum to ask their questions uninhibited and to get solid answers. He said absolutely absolutely. >> What you wanted to make that standardized in school? Meaning I did. Meaning what do you mean? Can you explain? What do you mean have every school >> every school if they would devote a half an hour a week if the a kid goes to yeshiva especially yeshiva with a high school in medish. So he could be there for seven years. You know how much you can accomplish in seven years of an extra take off a half an hour from learning the the the pill and and and give them other things that will inspire them. How many kids don't even know what the crusades were, what we suffered, what what we went through. How how many kids don't I mean I I have a a relative shall we say who is a mitsuyan but when he was 17 his father asked him do you do they learn tan in your he said mak is for girls should not go through yeshiva thinking that tanakh is for girls it's one of called Kamki said at a at a Torah convention I heard it on a recording he said they didn't give me a theme so I decided to speak about learning Tanak so they didn't give me a theme so I they invited me to speak but not they didn't give me a theme so he said once asked which was near the first or the second Soap answered him. He said, "Tell me which one came first, the first or the second." They have to be in touch with the whole picture. The focus is limited in the system. The focus is limited. And I don't think I'm the man to change it, but we're the they they asked the Katska where is the so he said wherever you let him in. So that's where we go wherever they let us in. What would you say to someone who says the schools are there to teach alf and then Mishna and Garish or whatever and parents are the ones who should be teaching amuna to their kids? Will your response be yeah but if the kids never learned amuna how could they eventually become parents to teach amuna but is there truth that parents should be the ones >> it's true that this was learned at home once upon a time when there was a different kind of amuna a different kind of amuna amongst the people I want to ask you so a a a lawyer a very from lawyer all of us shall not alive anymore. He told me he said my father went through a hard life. He wasn't so medic anymore. But when my father would put his hand on the muza to go to Kit, he would pour forth a river of tears. How many people did you ever see doing that? It's not the herish is not there the same way. It's just not the same. >> What What do you think led to that? What what what what led to it? First of all, the environment that we're in is not conducive to it. That is part of the problem of amuna because it isn't crystal clear to us. That's partly the and we're being pulled by so many other things. The says so I don't know who it is that it says it's not really says they have nothing else. They don't have they don't have vacations. They don't have extensive wardrobes. They don't have all the things that the that more wealthier kids have. So they have nothing else. They they they dive into the but we have so much so much else is going on. So much else so many other interests. So many other this this this is bigger and faster and plusher and >> so you're saying the greatest ban the method to battle the redif is >> starts only starts with strengthening the last book that I just handed you before is about it's called separated to be mine. Just the ink is still wet on the book. Be careful. Don't get your shirt dirty. The the am even the amra is much more into gashmas. I was also a younger man here in Lakewood about a hundred years ago. I I was a younger man here in Lakewood when I uh we didn't have we didn't have a car. We didn't have carpets on the on on on in the apartment. We lived in an apartment. We we lived simple lives. We lived simple lives. But but but we felt that we were the we were the advocates to bring keshm to the world in a time when when learning k was not a standard. But today you have a kid who grew up from the moment he he was still sucking on his paci. He was it was already decided that he's going to go through the whole system and learning kim go to to the and and and going to learn in ky for at least 20 years after and it's taken for granted. Nobody ever asks the kids if they would like to do that. Most people don't. Most people don't. So it's all it's all taken for granted. It's by wrote not by everybody. There are people who are very very uh astute. Let me ask you this question. There in the last 10 years I would say there's been an explosion of a certain type of amuna book by many different authors. I would say 99% of them, I could be wrong, are stories after story after story of a difficult thing happening and then a good thing happening at the end. And people love to read it because it makes their own situation feel like, hey, there's light at the end of the tunnel because just like good things happen to all these 12,000 people that I read in the stories that I read, so it'll probably happen to me. Is that Amuna? Is that is that beneficial or is that potentially detrimental where it's it's like emotional? >> I was going to say it's not beneficial. It's very beneficial. It's very inspiring. But it doesn't replace knowing that the amuna is actually true and that for that you need to be trained. You need to be trained. And that's what the gdam who have backed us all these years have said. That's what we do and and we and we see without a question that it works. >> So why are there people who are hesitant to have it standardized in schools? >> Number one, because they don't see the problem because they looking at the ground instead of looking up at the Blue J. Number two, because they're very focused on what they are doing. I heard a story from a mechanic in in Brooklyn. He you'd recognize his name. He's a famous person, but of course I won't say it. So he said he was in a certain mid and it was probably in elementary school. Maybe it was a high school. I don't know. He said, "I knew that this was going to be my last year. I was going to be moving on next year and they knew they weren't going to fire me." And we were at the meeting, you know, the meeting be the day before school starts, the staff meeting. So the mania says, "We have to bring God back into the classroom." So I stood up and I said, "You know, you had two who were doing that, but you fired them because they weren't finishing the curriculum." And he said, "It's a very good question." And next subject we're going to discuss is and he moved on to something else. >> One day we'll do an interview in Toronto. >> I went to Camp Aura two years ago. I went to Camp Aura in Toronto. the Toronto Campura and I asked to speak about my amuna and the the woman who was running the the program was very interested very very excited about it. So I spoke to the girls. So she wrote me a letter. She said everyone should hear this. She said the girls were asking why did we never hear the basics of Yiddish kite before? So I'm not understanding can the whole thing be done in three days every grade once a year for three days we just do the whole thing. >> It's a process of the whole life of of of embibing it and and and and feeling it's not something that you just do once and then I I I've had people that that heard the CDs and then they come back and ask me the question a question about what they heard already. It it goes in but but it gets forgotten. It doesn't it's a process. It has to be focused on. We wrote a beer booklet a beer booklet which is on.org called and over there it brings out from the I when I wrote the booklet I uh was it's a program that can be done it was written for elementary school mak so that they could have every day a little bit to explain the trillis to the kids the kids kids don't have any idea what they are saying they don't know what they're Hey, they don't know the difference between they don't know. >> Is that an amuna issue? >> No. But but but but amun and go together is when you're talking to the but if I'm just mumbling Chinese words. So what connection can I be making with theam? And then we wrote I was a I was a malamid for many years with younger children. So I know that malam feel that their job is to learn the kids should know the story and they should know the translations and they don't realize that in every pos. So we wrote 15 the first 15 sed we never get got further but we wrote the first 15 sedas uh on practically every p to bring out hashka and amuna >> it can be done but it's it's not something that you just do it once you go to a seminar and you and yeah some people you know they go to an seminar or Yeah, they get turned on. They they see that there's something here and then hopefully they start a a career of of progressing. But with the kids, it has to be it has to be embied slowly. It has to be also have to see from the and the moros that they are a thousand% convinced. If you could spend 10 minutes with a kid about to go off the dar, what would you tell them? Would depend on the individual? It would depend on the individual. But I might say as follows. I might say as follows. You know, in 10 minutes, I can't give over the whole moon in 10 minutes. I mean, I'm I'm a maybe I'm a bright guy. I don't know. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. But I'm not that bright. That's for sure. I would tell him as follows. The the Clalia soil has been doing this for 3,000 years. We spilled oceans of blood to keep this faith and shed rivers of tears for 3,000 years. I to mention about the crusades and the various times in history and even beal during the whole European experience over 2,000 years they hardly had a a good moment most places most times I said you're about to leave a namoona of 3,000 years I understand you're you're being pulled in other directions but at least remember that you left behind the msurus of 3,000 years which is the truth and you and because eventually the chances are that you'll hit rock bottom. When you hit rock bottom, remember you left the truth behind for whatever reason you gave it up. >> Has there ever been a question that baffled you or stumped you? >> No. I'll tell you why. I introduce myself as follows. I can answer every question you'll ever ask because if I know the answer, I'll tell you. And if not, I'll tell you. I I don't know. >> What was the best question you've ever been asked? >> I can't I don't remember. >> But I can tell you I can tell you that the questions are being asked universally, universally. When Rabbi Young Rabay Young is originally from London, he's been here for many decades, but he's originally from London. So he and I went to London on a speaking tour over a week from Sunday to Thursday. We must have spoken between the two of us. Not all we spoke together. We sp must have spoken 35 times. Yeah. So so uh we were introduced in golders's green. There were two nights two public dresas. One was from and one was for the Balabat and we were introduced by Rabonim that neither of us had ever spoken to and they presented the the issues that they see. I said to myself, this sounds like I wrote the script. The same exact problems and the same exact questions. Rabbi Young went to Australia once for 16 days, for 16 days. And did the same program. They're asking the same questions wherever you go. The kids that took the challenge, they're from Minnesota, from Los Angeles, from from Montreal, from from Waterberry, from from Lakewood, from Muny, from Baltimore, from Chicago. They're from all over and from all different backgrounds. The questions are the same. They either start with, "How can we be sure that we're right or how can we be sure that the others are wrong?" And either way, it's easy to explain to them if you if you have a little bit of training and you use common sense. Hopefully, I have another book coming out called Questions Deserve Answers. when I was in Chicago about five years ago. So there were two types of yeshivas there. The yeshivas where they do let me in and the yes is yeshivas where they didn't let me in. But there were two schools. I spoke in Skoi and I spoke for the Hanisac space big big school and the girl the girls and the bo the brim sent in their questions in advance and my presentation that day was going to be only to answer their questions. Now of course between the two schools were about 100 questions but of course there was a lot of overlap and a lot of repetition. So, but there were a lot of questions. So, after this was over, I I sent the questions to Rabarfeld Mita who gave me a husk on the first book. >> And I said, I'm sure Rashid would be interested to see what the kids are asking these days. So, he said to me, if your books don't answer those questions, you have to write another one. So, it's taken me five years and this last Sunday we finished editing it. What piece of could you give to a couple that's married six years and they couldn't get pregnant and then they finally did get pregnant and the pregnancy ended in a miscarriage and then they got pregnant again and the OB tells them that their child is going to be down syndrome and they are crushed and for the first time in their life this regular normal couple starts having amuna questions. What would you say to such a >> that's because they weren't prepared for this before. It's hard to tell a bal that the are also for a purpose. It has to be prepared when when life is good that you are prepared with the hashka. That's the third book is called tranquility and travail. It's about that's my third book. It's about is a mystery. We don't have the full answer. But people think we have nothing. No, we have lots of answers. Partial answers from Kazal a little bit from but mostly plain and mid plain that there's a system the does know what he's doing and we don't always understand it. We don't always understand it. But if if you go to somebody who's suffering in bed and crying out in pain and say, "Listen, you're so lucky." Not not ready to hear it. Then you need to be trained in advance. The the system is supposed to prepare you for life, not just teach you to make you a professor of Talmud. It's supposed to prepare you for life. It's supposed to prepare you on on on on how to get along with your wife. In some places they do this. In some places they wouldn't dare talk about it. This is but but but if you have no training and you start off with nothing, maybe it'll work and maybe it won't. But it could be that if you had training, you would have done a lot better. So does it bother you based on what you're saying that anytime that there's a war or something happens in the world especially in art people run to start talking about amuna and amuna is a major topic and then once things simmer down no one talks about amun anymore was was known to be an ish kadesh and aesh when he was a bak he learned in roden under the and in the early part of the 20th century, there was a a girl who was smitten with a debuk and sent Rabbon and a minion with together with a minion of people to chase out the debuk and I believe that Rab Katk was one of them. He was only a still and so the whole the whole discussion what the debuk said and then all the that's not for our conversation now but but said he didn't sleep all night who was the in the said we heard a connection with the other world how can you not turn around your life but kasco said the next morning so the dib escaped by breaking the glass in the window, which is the which is the typical way that they're asked to leave the the tortured living person that they've come into. So the whole town of Rad was not a big town, but the whole town was standing around at this broken window and whoa and whoa. And they're so excited. So comment was, "But the tailor remains a tailor and the shoemaker remains a shoemaker." Let me ask you a question. We went through co killed five million people across the world. CO and not only from from the um but from some of our best people succumbed to CO. One of my colleagues in Toronto was was in the hospital for 183 days. He was if I'm not mistaken most of that time he was uh what do you call it? uh >> sedated and it was a miracle that he recovered a miracle that he recovered that we went through a mafa a 100% bonafide mafa a worldwide mafa we couldn't go to shul we couldn't go to yeshivas kids didn't go to school kids suffered from it there are kids who are still suffering from those years. And what happened when it went away? Life goes on. See any major changes in the world? I didn't. Maybe there are. I didn't see any major changes. I talked to myself. I should I should have become a much better person also. This is that's human nature. We get excited. See a miracle. The people in the 10 tribes when they bowed down by Ela Bahara, you think they stopped worshiping of worshiping of afterwards? No. They said, "We know now we know the truth." But with a very exciting story and then they went back to So let me ask you on that. If tomorrow a hand comes out of the sky and says, "I am Hashem, I am true." Would anyone become more from regular people? Would they become more? >> Did we see open miracles in the last year in Israel? Open miracles. We saw open miracles many times. So there are people that are waking up in Israel. So I'm told, I haven't been there, but so I'm told that there are a lot of people that are waking up. people are and in America we've we we've seen the sinil has grown by leaps and bounds leaps and bounds I wrote an article that I distributed a little bit in Toronto called why do they hate us anyone who wants it can just send me an email dapermangmail.com I'll be happy to send them a copy basically the Torah told us says as follows in the name of the vagin The go says this world is a shala. It's a faximile of what's going on above. So explains as follows. If you go to a vegetable store and you see in the window a fruit store and you see in the window plastic fruits, you understand that the plastic fruits are just an example, a faximile of what's inside the real fruits. What happens in this world is a sim of what's going on in heaven. When you see that sin Israel increases, it's a sim that there's a kit on the Jewish people. And this is why the sin is is is increasing. But so we see it and not sure that enough people are waking up from it. older people, very old people say this feels exactly like before the war broke out in in Europe when the Nazis were getting all the nations on the in the world to get to hate the Jews. >> What message of can you give in closing to the many people watching this to enable them to stay on fire in their amuna in today's crazy world? >> This is what I spoke about on Shab. I told you there's a group of 20 boys from a yeshiva that came on chabas and I spoke to them. I said the name of the dasha was their amuna is compelling. That is what they have to know. If they don't know it then they have to do a little bit of research. It's not only my book but Victor Miller wrote about this 60 years ago. When I was 19 I read his first book and I was that's a long time ago. Let me tell you, I read his first book. Rabbi Ram Lavine said on his tape on that recording that I mentioned before, he said he was a his father was a of and he learned and cats and he never had any questions. But when he saw you's first book, it was a tremendous it should be required reading for every now. It's not written in so much of a contemporary style and there are other books today that deal with these issues. Uh when I was about 30 I quot and I told him I rebi I thank you so much for putting me on my feet in amuna. They need to they need to know that the amuna is compelling. If you if you use your and look into it a little bit you're going to discover that it's that it's Koy MS and the and there is no competition in the world. >> Rabbi Saberman, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. It's >> been an honor. [Music]