The Home Front: Happy Parents, Happy Kids - Rabbi Yirmiyahu Abramov

[Music] hello and welcome to the home front our topic for today is raising children raising children can be very tough and if you don't know that yet then you you probably will once you're married and have children here today with us is Rabbi abov I'm honored to have you with us today Rabbi and uh we'd like to ask you how do we approach it what's the what should a a mother and father be thinking when it comes to Parenting okay so the first golden principle is a great relationship between husband and wife because children um have these two great figures in their lives and uh they feel a very deep attachment and closeness with both of them in a certain sense equal but different they children are endowed with very sensitive uh senses and they can detect tension very easily and there's nothing that's more disturbing to a child when he feels that Mommy and Daddy are not on the same page it's something that parents will Discerning parents if they have U you know if they're wise to a reasonable degree will certainly know that you can't speak to children in two voices you're saying we should have a United Home Front there's got to be United Home Front absolutely even if they disagree on certain issues let that disagreement be worked out in private does that mean that even if they haven't worked out the disagreement or can't or let's say haven't yet worked it out they should pretend in front of the children well they should come to a like any profession parenting is a very very significant profession it's a something you're endowed with this extraordinary responsibility of building a human being because there's no question that the parents have the greatest effect on the children I'm not even talking about the the genetic Heritage that they get but parents have a profound effect children they're huge figures in the eyes of the children and uh they are perceived as the ultimate Educators and there's also this ingredient of love that is the natural thing that's flowing over there so parents are the central they are the central person in the building of this uh child and um it's like anything significant or serious a person does you got to prepare for it there's absolutely no point a little child is discovering his world and he's trying to develop attitudes and develop approaches to various things um if this child uh gets very confusing messages um and sometimes there are parents which actually you know go into extreme you know difficulties you know like well that's what your father says but I say differently says ma or the other way so this child is left a little he does doesn't have the tools yet to be able to sort out such a social issue so this child is left he's got to make choices so who do I follow isn't that sometimes healthy or normal I mean you know the classic mother saying you just wait until your father gets home that one parent should take one role and another parent should take another role isn't that sometimes healthy yeah but when when they're doing it in unity where they they they are saying okay you know father is the one who's going to inflict the punishment which is a separate issue we'll discuss punishment m in another in one of our sessions it's a very important session to discuss so that's fine the child understands that there are different roles he sees them as different people with different roles but um you can't have a situation where he knows that they are inherently diff differing on some principal issues because that then the child begins to develop a skill which is not a healthy skill at this age where he starts to play the one of against the other and the child begins to um manipulate um and he knows for certain things I go to father and certain things I go to mother and you know I speak to my father in a certain way I speak to my mother in a certain way it's not necessary for the child to do it he should be relaxed it should be a relaxed environment it shouldn't be a tense filled environment that this child has to be calculating every step and every word he makes the home should be a harmonious relaxed atmosphere so I would say the ABS absolute first golden principle is parents work on your relationship mhm now it's hard to fake a relationship and that's why I think children are the greatest incentive for building healthy marriages mhm but what whatever it is you can sometimes be forthright with a child and you can say you know uh your mother and I disagree on this issue and let me spell you spell out to you the two issues what age are we talking about when it's when hases it become healthy from a from a relatively young age four five can already begin to to to understand these things so when it's said in a relaxed Manner and it's there isn't Intrigue and there isn't um a feeling of of infighting going on um but it said you know well mother and I have discussed this issue you asking me can we go away can I go away for a sleep away um weekend with my friends now you can come to me and say look mother and I have discussed this issue we actually differ on our opinions but the child gets the feeling of we agree to disagree when we agree so then the child doesn't feel he doesn't feel that there's different camps and there he understands that the parents are coming forward now with a United Coalition with United Home Front as you said um and uh after spilling out the differences saying we therefore have concluded together that this is what our decision is in this matter okay because the child is Discerning enough he knows sometimes you know usually the women are endowed with a much more soft approach to children and the father is more kind of a disciplinarian uh it's not necessarily a hard and fast principle but um it's already in the Torah it's already spelled out when God commanded um Moses to teach the Jewish people so he command he gave it in a different he he worded it differently um the pasuk says the verse says Moses is instructed when you teach the women beob is referring to the women when you teach the women so you must teach them in the following Mana it's a very soft approach the word tomara has a soft connotation to it but when you teach the men is when you teach men teach men in a very um men understand very specific borders so teach men in a more firm manner so there are inherent differences between in the approach between a male and a female and the child perceives this and that's fine but he can't feel that there's ongoing tension certainly not you know if parents have disagreements and it happens in the rest of families that they are disag dis agreements um so these disagreements should not be in front of the children the children can't understand them so can I just go back to something that that you mentioned earlier you said that you think children are one of the best incentives to to work on and to develop a good marriage um I'm just wondering when could have understood the opposite from what you'd said before in order to raise a healthy child one has to have a healthy marriage so I mean you hear people say this a lot I want to be married for a number of years and we want to have a strong stable home environment before we have kids um you seem to imply that you know have kids sooner it helps you develop your your marriage which I think so I think children are most definitely a unifying factor in a marriage um responsible serious parents uh understand they've been given a massive gift of the greatest gift that they can be a human being um and it's in their joint hands to build this personality and uh much of what they're going to do is going to affect this child and this individual very profoundly throughout his life without a doubt so um I think responsible people will feel okay so listen uh we have to take this thing seriously but what they need to know is that um there's nothing more painful to a child than than observing Discord between the parents he doesn't have the maturity to understand that it can happen that there are disagreements and he can feel wow this marriage is on the Rocks these two people who I relate to as one as these are this is my whole life and now they are you know are going at each other so parents when they sort out issues and they offer our issues make sure the kids are asleep make sure that you you know if there are issues that that to be need to be sorted out so go for that walk you know go for a nice walk and uh sort it out in in whichever way you sort it out but when you in front of the children the first thing is a common front common home front so J me on the question so the question was um the question was uh about the in you you mentioned that children are the best incentive to work on your marriage yeah so I was talking about giving one Primacy or the other I mean if you're saying that they're an incentive to work in your marriage the whole point of what you were saying before I thought was that in order to raise healthy children you should have a healthy relationship so aren't we putting the cart before the horse if we say the children are going to jog you so a couple without children that's not the uh that's not what they intend I mean the vast majority the overwhelming majority of people who get married want to have children and that is the ultimate setting that they're going to see themselves living in this little family correct but a lot of people say you know 5 years time 10 years time so if they cultivate and work on their relationship so to speak for a several years they're in a certain sense developing something somewhat artificial because that's not the real thing and suddenly when children are introduced into the marriage these are disturbing annoying factors and that can upset the whole beautiful comfortable relationship that they've built as two individuals um and now suddenly there's you know they're not getting enough sleep because there's a a young baby and the baby's crying at the night and and there's there are issues and and they can't go where they want to they can't so their whole life changes radically so why spend years cultivating something which is not really where you want to be ultimately so of course listen uh nature has it God has it that at least you've got a year's runup time uh before you have your first child close to a year right to exact nine months but that's quite a significant runup time when they can um start building and developing a a closeness um children can perceive love and they have to work on loving each other they have to work on this element of loving each other children have such senses that they are much more so than our clouded um complex way of looking at things they can actually sense they can sense feelings in the air so let the husband you know the Torah says that the first year of marriage is a vital year first year of marriage um is there to really spend as much time as possible together cultivating and and uh growing to love each other and and getting used to each other um and by the time the Young uh new addition is introduced into the family hopefully there's already a deep profound love that's flowing between them and all levels of their of of their existence um and now they're ready to move into the real thing and the real thing is ma children so they're ready for it so um I don't think there's any advantage in saying well you know we'll spend several years it could be that sometimes maybe it's too long a honey Moon you know it's good to to contain these and um and then get into the real thing God's N9 month honeymoon is the ideal length yeah I think so I think it's a very healthy healthy honeymoon could I ask you now about uh outside influences because certainly once the kid gets older and uh starts attending for a longer period of time at school or uh at least some kind of playgroup um there are influences with which a parent may not agree one parent may agree more of course than the other but in general obviously one tries to send a a child to a school with which one's happy um but that's a utopian view that the you and the school and the teachers would always see eye to eye how does one deal with first of all our own relationship with the school and secondly when there when the child itself has conflicting um messages one from what happens at school another from from what he or she sees at home okay this is a very crucial issue because while on the one hand I'm saying that that the parents are the most and should be the most profound influence in the child life the child's life the fact is that they spend a significant chunk of their day as they grow older um outside of the home and um in a completely uncontrolled environment um you know from the parents point of view point let's hope there's some control in the absolutely and um uh so they can be Discerning parents and try and find the best school but they absolutely can't control what um their their little friends are you know who are their Educators and what their friends are telling them uh even what the teachers are telling them or even what they just perceive walking in the streets you know today we living in a world of such vivid images and advertising and uh uh people you know the whole world is telling us what to think and how to think and what to believe and it's very Vivid and it's very colorful um and uh is very impactful so there is a whole massive range of influences that are um pouring into this little delicate Soul this child that's been uh mollycoddled at home uh by the parents for the first year two three years whatever it is and suddenly the child moves into the into a different Arena where he's outside the sphere of influence um now much of outside influences can be very very difficult um you can find situations of bad character traits um sometimes children only encounter real violence when they go to kindergarten right when you have two sweet little girls tearing away at each other over who's going to play with a dolly in the kindergarten um they suddenly find themselves being insulted they find themselves being ostracized being um excluded uh from you know from Little Circles of friends they suddenly find themselves having to relate to some very harsh realities of life that's at that very young level as they grow older we know that in today's age of Technology um people from a very early age are getting a significant amount of their influence from outside sources very powerful outside sources a child who's walking around with his iPhone um is exposed to a whole world a world that parents have absolutely no control and a world that in some senses is very colorful is very exciting is very very adventurous um and uh it it's a it's a real struggle um to maintain um an equilibrium so the best advice for helping a child maintain um a a nice healthy wholesome balance is the home has to be a very powerful factor in this child's life the home this harmonious home this home home where there are these loving parents and the child feels that this is his little cocoon and and he knows even though he's got to venture out but he always has that inner security well you know I'm going back home and I'm going to discuss this with Mommy and Daddy um and you know I I saw things which are quite shocking which which are quite frightening to me which were quite scary to me which um are are are they encounter violence they can encounter violence from teachers from bus drivers who Tak in them places they can encounter violence just in in the playground real violence little boys playing a game of soccer um you know just stand by and watch it's a good exercise just go to a big school and watch kids young kids in the break playing so you'll see all little different uh forms of activity in playing but there's a lot of verbal violence out there that this kid may not be of course the child has to be exposed to this because this these are the realities of life life but if the child has an inner security he's got a very strong powerful home and um he knows that he can come home at the end of the day and kind of lick his wounds and uh he's got a a a very very interested and engaged parents who really is listening to everything and responding um and parents have to realize that you know some parents um feel that their role is you know once I've my kids goes to school so I'm kind of done you know I've just got to make sure he goes to the right School I've got to make sure he's got his lunch and he's dressed and he's clean and you know he comes back home and you know there'll be a few courtesies and um you know kind of uh I have to help him with his homework yeah absolutely that's it uh or or uh you'll have a situation a very common situation where parents will almost answer for the kid the the child will walk in and say school's good everything was okay okay yeah you enjoyed yourself you enjoyed and the kid is just kind of nodding where the mother said you know she's gone through the perfunctory um few comments and say okay now you know go and get a homework and eat your lunch and uh um a a parent must be ready when the child comes home must be ready to talk and to listen and to jog the child into talking because there's so much that this child has just discovered so many new things that child just discovered and parents should spend a significant amount of time talking with each kid and hearing not only cold information but feelings you know you can have different kinds of teachers so these are realities of life you're not going to uh protect the child from different kinds of teachers but you can have some very harsh teachers you can have very sensitive and soft teachers um you can have situations of gross misbehavior in the schools you know uh children uh VIs the adults in terms of not behaving themselves in school you can have all sorts of situations so if the child is encouraged all the time talk talk let's let's discuss it um and in a very soft and a very casual manner you know not it shouldn't be an interrogation you know under the lights and interrog but just who did you play with and um uh tell tell me about your friends and who did you sit with and often the child will come out with many many many deeper profound things this little sensitive Soul has been hurt the sensitive soul and CU you know there's there's there's subtle bullying going on all the time even in the finest schools I'm not even talking about where you've got certain situations where there's real um serious bully bullying but this there's also the subtle bullying so parents have to be all the time when the child comes back home bring him back oh I'm back in the uh in the comfort of the home and they understand me and I can talk out my feelings and we can discuss things because sometimes if parents are not open enough then the children go underground that is they they realize well I been not you know I'm not going to you if the parents for example don't react correctly if they overreact so parents have to be so parenting is a is a very very serious issue um and all the time you're helping the child develop attitudes to new things and new realities of life we're not keeping them away from the realities of Life they're going to encounter them in every sector in every Circle and so you'll choose your school very carefully but you're always going to have a whole range of um of different people if I may rather though you know in a utopian world where parents have unlimited amounts of time that's much easier but the reality one of the hardest realities of today especially is that often both parents are working working full-time jobs um sometimes the parent isn't home to meet the kid when the kid comes home from school I guess it's a matter of prioritization because everybody has some free time but you know to what extent does one again this is an idea of balance between the relationship between husband and wife they need some time to themselves they might want to go out for dinner or they might want to whatever it is they do together but to to to spend that amount of time talking to a child especially if the child's not home that often how how do you how I guess it's a it's a mental approach thing what what's your what's your view on how you should you know there's quality and quantity you don't need to spend vast amount of times but when you're with a child be totally engaged I think it's a great practice the child comes home switch off all the gadgets all the phones now right now you're the most and make a show of it to the child oh you came home oh I'm switching off the phone not going to answer let me here how is your day it's your time and that it's your time give it five minutes 10 minutes you don't need more than that so okay so the parent who's not if you got a set of parents that both are not at home and um there's some other caregiver then let's train that caregiver right but I mean a child has to relate to someone unless you you know you you you know is the child with a key around his neck and he comes home and there's a little note on the door hi uh your dinner's in the uh you know warm up your dinner and we'll you know we'll see you uh uh late at night okay that's a that's that's not an ideal situation by any means and there you really are saying to the child okay it's a free for all whoever whoever educates you will educate you but you don't need vast amount of time quality above quantex it's real equality but but be totally and absolutely involved when you're with a child be totally involved with a child you mentioned earlier some of the more nefarious potential things out there um at least in passing that uh children today at a younger and younger age have access to all sorts of Technology which let's not beat around the bush sometimes uh will beam into their little Minds images which parents might not want would prefer that they didn't see how far do you go in terms of barring that kind of access I mean it's not possible to do completely how do you again it's a balance but how how do you draw that line how do you explain to a child that this is not appropriate for you especially if again the sphere of influence that they find themselves in the the kids in their school other people around if if they're doing those things as well that's sigh expresses it all uh we Sorry to bring it up but it's necessary we are and this is the whole session in itself uh we are in without a doubt the most difficult I've heard this from great great people that this is clearly the most difficult generation in the history of mankind because here you have um technology and instrument um which um are so invasive and uh are are so inviting and so much part and parcel of one's lives and we really have very little control now there are a lot of very unsavory um elements on these you know to tell the child well here you've got free open internet uh but make sure you don't go to places that that I wouldn't go to that's like not saying anything that's only encouraging the child to look for these more mysterious kind of places and they're so easy and they're so accessible if you ask me um I live in a culture where we just don't let these children children have access to um Vehicles where I've got no control I really have no control because I cannot match up nothing you can do in the home can match up with what Hollywood and the likes of it can produce in terms of excitement and action and colors and um you know the the MTV types of images which are which are so enticing and so inviting and so and everything that goes with this so I can't I can't even begin to contend with that so then I have to say okay I'm giving up I'm not going to be the prime educator um I'm going to be around I'm going to be you know servicing the physical needs of the child and I'll make sure the dinner's on time and I'll make sure because um if the child comes home and exchanges a few cursory comments with the mother or the father and then retires to the bedroom to his little device um and that's where'll spend several hours which is very very common today um so basically I've given up I've handed um over the building of this child to the Mercies of um commercially driven massive businesses and institutions who are trying to be um all that interest them really is ratings and all that interests them really is um uh the uh you know to to to entice and attract attract people to get more eyeballs on their on on their screens and that's that's big money so I'm saying okay so I've given up I've given up I took I had a I was given a magnificent gift and uh this gift is uh now in my hands to do whatever I wish with it and at the age of the age of T three four I've said okay this child's all yours I come from a culture where we just explain to the child that you know there very unsavory things out there there are levels of violence there are levels of um physical interactions of All Sorts which just aren't for you they just aren't for your age you can't even perceive them they're not you shouldn't be there at all so explain to the child and that makes my challenge much greater my home's got to be much more exciting and much more more inviting and enticing but I've got to try and keep this kid away from this by more matter less art yeah in reality people live in that world you're really suggesting that people everybody abandons all this kind cuts off all access to Internet for the kids um first of all how is that practical not everyone lives in in in in this culture how do you deal with a situation where you know that's that's normal you're going to the kids's going to feel deprived isn't he should everyone move to a society where this is well you know let's take the bull by the horns um you know that I I can't quote specific statistics but you're talking about a hugely high percentage of very young children who are exposed to the ultimate in pornography at a very very young age 8 n 10 years old and I get completely engaged and completely involved um and um in a certain sense hooked um there are studies that uh say that by the age of 12 13 a very very significant percentage of people from these from the vast majority of these Western cultures who are not putting controls so these kids are spending hours and hours a day engaged and watching what we would used to call AD adult activity it's in fact the um the biggest market share of people watching pornography are young kids when I said young kids from the age of 10 to to the age of 17 where this is the highest rate of so now this is devastating for these kids I mean there are filters there are oh okay fine I'm coming to that in a minute there are filters okay I'm coming to that in a minute but um uh parents who feel you know well you know let's just let them find their way through life um in a certain sense they are inflicting extreme damage upon these children because they they are entering into an area that they lack the maturity to understand they are reducing the most profound beautiful spiritual holy um Act of intimacy to something animalistic something that has no um that has no depth to it that has no feelings to it it's purely um I'm looking to take as what whatever pleasure I can even at even sometimes at the expense of others um so these people are going to have a very difficult time developing meaningful profound relationships if for their whole formative chunk of their lives from the age of 10 to 20 that's that is the that's the real formative period of a person's life age of 10 through 20 this person has been a major part of their whole head space and heart space and mind space is being is occupied in um in in this in this Arena um and I can't and this um casual um attitude towards sexual interaction is um it's saying one statement forget about forget about developing real profound deep relationships saying just have a B have a you know get whatever pleasure you can if it's vying kind of pleasure or it's a pleasure just now suddenly they find themselves in marriage and marriage has got to be a whole new relationship very very often people struggle with this issue and they find it difficult to really have meaningful um interaction um on on an intimate level a real sense of intimacy so you're doing the kid a tremendous favor so you're right you're saying to me Rabbi be practical so you talk about filters there's no question about it that um filters is um you know a child should not have access to an electronic device that is not very heavily filtered without a question a child and an adult also because adults have got free roaming thumbs like anybody else and um you know they can uh they can click their way into anything and it's not healthy for adults to be into all sorts of unsavory type of um I mean that's a separate discussion that we that we should have seems like there many separate discussions we should have yeah yeah and this will you know profoundly affect many aspects of a person's life one of the big arguments against filters is um well that's you know stolen fruit is always much more tasty MH so you'll put filters so the kid will either find ways of circumventing filters you know teenages have a tremendous Knack of uh uh of figuring out uh technology um or they'll go to friends and they'll you know because oh I want to see what my parents don't want me to see that's that's very juicy and that's very tasty um so there is a problem there and that's why I'm much more of the philosophy and there are Trends today in the general Society there are real moves to um controlling this there are countries that are taking for example England is taking some very very serious steps in legisl ating National Nationwide controls and filters because of the very profound effect that that this is having on on our lives there are studies today that there are certain brain chemical reactions that take place when a when a person is watching pornography and a person becomes hooked onto it you know it's something which is uh um uh and very hard to control so you're you're you're developing a situation whereby um you really um moving the focus away from this child's life where his Focus if today there are studies that the average teenager is spending some 5 hours in front of some device totally engaged in a device and a significant chunk of it is in these either extreme violent or um violent Kum pornography sites or just straight pornography type of sites so what are we doing with our children we we we we we we're bringing up a generation of people that we we haven't given them a chance to be children so therefore I think parents have to take very tough stands on these issues and um but it's a challenge because you've got to supplant you've got to you've got to offer Alternatives it seems like what this has in common with the other issues we've been discussing is that it's really a breakdown you were describing the The Fortress of the home and that charge you feel comfortable so this really breaks down those walls it means that the outside world and all its problems is brought into the into the home and into the child's Minds seems to be that's the thread running through everything you're saying that the home should be a sanctum it should be absolutely for safe yeah there's a verse in the in the Kash that says uh mikdash make your home into a mini Sanctuary you said it it's a sanctum make into a mini sanctuary and then God says I will then dwell there but I can't dwell in the place which is riddled there are two areas where the talmud says that God says I can't be there I can't be there when there's extreme Discord I can't be there it's just because God's name is peace Shalom one of the names of God is Shalom so you know if couples can't get their act together and bring about a situation of Peace in the home so they are also at the same time expelling God from their home that's one aspect and there's another aspect um where there is this level of extreme um immorality on the on these levels all you know it's again it's a a it's a very specific verse in the Kash it says there shall not be amongst you um this um extreme immoral morality and if there is I exit it's the only place in the whole Torah where it says God says I can't be there so not only are we actually sanctioning that this child is going to his whole developmental years and all his growth and there's so much growth that takes place that his focus is shifted into another Arena and he's really not growing and developing in areas where could be developing of Personality developing um are we just throwing him to the dogs and saying okay you guys you know that any crazy person on the internet decide to you know give over his blogs or his messages and my kids there and I'm just giving this little innocent this innocent naive little mind into his hands that's a very serious decision to take as well as we are basically pushing spirituality out of our homes so therefore um I would say that in this particular area I don't even see room for compromise I don't even see room for compromise and there are there's more and more Discerning people who are taking very serious serious um approaches to this realizing um that we shouldn't just lose our kids not to drugs and not to any kind form of substance abuse which is very very common um which is destroying them physically as as as well as their and hampering and damaging their minds um and not just abandoning them to all these unsavory things unsavory adult activities which shouldn't be part and parcel of Our Lives I mean it's hard because what you're saying flies in the face to some extent of one of the mantras of our times which is freedom right freedom of expression freedom of speech I mean everyone agrees that there's some there should be some limitation on freedom of speech freedom of expression but the freedom you know it's it's almost the AR same arguments that you're making have been made by if you forgive me totalitarian regimes throughout the the centuries you know you can't see this you can't see that we're going to ban books we're going to ban this I mean one understands that there's a a higher danger but isn't there isn't there some to compromise in in some way yeah so you know the term freedom is a very relative term because uh giving a person just total abandoned Freedom um is in a sense um thrusting him into slavery MH take let's take this issue that we've been discussing if you allow a 8 10year old child to the freedom of just spending hours a day engaged in in in in totally immersed in graphic violence pornography Etc so um that's not that's you're enslaving this child to that this becomes the the the dominant preoccupying factor of this person's life and he's developing warped attitudes so so you're enslaving him in a certain sense so ad I mean on the contrary um we as Jewish parents um we have a code which we live by and this code tells us what we should eat and when we should eat and this code tells us um what you know it it governs many areas of Our Lives um uh so this is another area of our life that is the ultimate of Freedom when a person knows what's good for him and he is not um obsessively um engag in something that he can't extricate himself from there are situations when people just cannot extricate themselves from from the from these kind of things and it develops into it it manifests itself in so many areas you know take innocent cartoons you know Mickey Mouse is and Donald Dax if they're still around I couldn't help but hear the the air quotes that you place of the word innocent yeah okay so take these little innocent cartoons now the levels of violence in the average in many of these cartoons you know someone gets in your way you give him a slap and he goes flying over a mountain and he you know he's there's a culture that the way you sort things out is with violence because kids aren't watching the mushy nice sweet kind of stuff that's not what that's not what it's the more it's the it's the action pact and the action pact is is is just riddled with violence so this kid then learns okay the way to sort out issues is it just got to be tough you know violence again the guy who's producing these uh brilliantly produced um I mean the world of of movie production today is so sophisticated um and um is so thought out in terms of achieving one thing I wanted be I I want my show to be popular I want rating so I will approach the lowest base elements of a person and this and I'll engage him with this so I think that uh on the contrary um you can free a child I think parents should have significant discussions with their children about these issues they shouldn't just issue a ban and um you know lay down the law and that's it they should explain and explain again and again and again and and analyze these issues and they can you know um that you can explain to a child that um intimate physical relations is something which is there primarily and virtually exclusively for the connectivity for welding together two individuals so now at the age of 8 9 10 you don't want to get welded together with someone and stuck with someone so you can explain this this time of course you're going to engage in these activities and they are very pleasurable activities but these but that's going to be when you found your mate that's going to be and again talking about let's say in this case talking about marriage right so you know I guess we often use the word extreme and extremism um in a solely negative sense and uh that's not strictly true you know some things can be extremely good and some things can be extremely bad and so even though some of these Concepts and ideas might be tough for our ears to hear and it may be difficult to hear that a person has to set controls and and limit especially on on their children but also on themselves uh I think it deserves some some deep thought and we have to come to terms with the fact that sometimes things can be extremely [Music] good