The Future of The State of Israel, Torah & The Army - Q&A With Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz

We have a divine promise from Hakadosh Baruch Hu that there will not be a third there will not be a third galus. And therefore, for sure, the State of Israel can never, ever be destroyed. Uh that unfortunately is not a true statement because it's true that Hakadosh Baruch Hu promised that the Temple will not be destroyed a third time, but we're not out of the second galus. Uh we're still in the second galus and therefore anything can happen as it were, including Rachmana litzlan, uh the korban of of of the Jewish state. So the Jewish state uh indeed is in very precarious footing. On the other hand, we have seen over many years already, 70 years, more than 70 years, we've seen the rachamim of Hashem, we've seen the love of Hakadosh Baruch Hu. So I think we have every reason to be optimistic. I I wouldn't put it as a promise. I don't think you have any prophetic promise to that effect, but I think Hashem is showing us a track record. Uh but once again, it also depends on our doing our part, whether it's Torah, mitzvos, ahavas Yisrael, whether it's coming together. If there was any silver lining to a very difficult and tragic experience that we're still going through, it's that it brought us together in ways that we had not seen for many years. Uh well, that's the thing. If you remember before October 7, there was this absurd debate about judicial reform, which somehow turned into an anti-religious act. So I didn't understand how that happened, but whatever it is, all the years that the Knesset was left us leaning without any religious influence, uh the secular people of Tel Aviv were perfectly happy to talk about pro-democracy, pro-Knesset. When there began to be more of a religious influence in the Knesset, the Supreme Court became their great protector, and when you want to want to rein in the Supreme Court, you know, chas v'shalom, you're creating a dictatorship and and the like. What's so amazing is even Biden and he should be well, Biden made a statement that he was not in favor of Israel limiting the power of the Supreme Court. His proposals, which will which will go nowhere, are many many times more radical than whatever [snorts] Netanyahu. He wanted to have term limits on American Supreme Court Justices, mandatory retirement at 75. They would have to amend the whole constitution. So he's criticizing Israel's >> [clears throat] >> Netanyahu who would really be creating a system very [snorts] much similar to what the United States already has when Netanyahu was doing something much more radical. Okay, whatever it is. I don't want to get into judicial reform. I mean I Yeah, but No, no, I'm saying Biden was criticizing Netanyahu. Okay, whatever. >> I would focus on the hypocrisy of Biden. >> Yeah, yeah, I I don't want to get into judicial reform. Although I have a law degree, so I'm interested in in those technicalities. But the point I want to make is it was tearing apart society. People were talking about leaving Israel, investors are talking about pulling out their capital. Soldiers were talking about not reporting to the army and reservists were saying they weren't going to come they came, but who knows if that emboldened Hamas to think that there wouldn't be a response. People were talking about the end of the state of Israel. This These were seriously articulated concerns. Comes October 7th, all of the sudden we love each other, we care about each other, we're making tzitzis for the the ones tzitzis and tefillin and the most chareidi families are bringing food and medicine and barbecues and everything else. And there was Israel, there was there was care, there was concern. But unfortunately, as the war drags on and on and on and on and on, we come back to our bad habits. Just like an elastic band, you stretch the band, but at some point you let go and it just goes back to where it was. So unfortunately, we're kind of coming back to where we were. So, that's a tragedy on top of a tragedy. The tragedy is are the events of October 7th and the war. But if we could grow from that, if we could learn from that, if we could be transformed from that, at least there would be some redeeming quality. If we have the tragedy and we have the and the screen What are we What are we left with? What are we left with? So, that I think is among the most saddest things. I mean, one of the hostages who was released >> [clears throat] >> I think made that statement. She She said that um this was an opportunity for everybody to come I don't think she was even religious. She just said this was an opportunity for the Jewish people to come together. She even mentioned that she was watching with her with her captors. She She was watching TV. They were watching a rally. And the captor, the guy, the Arab, the terrorist said to her He wasn't so happy about this. When the Jews get together, they're very strong. They When the Jews get together, there's nothing they can't do. So, so all I can say is that if we think about what we can try to do in the coming year once again, I think obviously Israel asked us to kind of show even if you don't go into the army, but to show that it's your sorrow, that you commiserate, that you're no say all, that you regard this as your struggle also. And open our hearts to feel the pain of others and recognize that their pain is really our pain. It's not even a different pain. And in that way, we try to be a little bit the that keeps us in the and prevents the war. A lot of Jewish life is operating on what you might call a state of emergency in the post Holocaust years. It's It's amazing. What people are calling ancient history is really history since 1945. And that's about [snorts] it. It was said the who really is the is really the architect. It's amazing. It's very rare that you find a virtual single person who formed the whole cult and he wasn't the only one but he was by far the dominant one who formed the dominant culture and built the sham of the Haredi world in Eretz Yisrael was the Chazon Ish. And the Chazon Ish had a shita that in the aftermath of 6 million Jews dying and and the Yeshiva severely being destroyed, it was a state of national emergency that required every person who could do full-time learning to go up into that procedure. Now, the Chazon Ish was asked "How long do you think that would be necessary?" He said, "At least years." Interestingly enough, the time is up. And in reality, go This goes back to the mesorah, meaning in reality, a certain type of cultural norm has become the sternation, which may actually be dysfunctional in some ways or may be atypical. It was actually not the mesorah of Am Yisrael. Uh and it was adopted as a state of emergency in the aftermath of the Holocaust and serious thought has to be put into whether this needs to be modified. Now, there are some voices that are talking about this. Even Rav Steinman, zechrono livracha, before he died, and he was attacked. Rav Steinman was attacked when he departed from the official line, right? So, even the godol is not protected when he doesn't say the standard line. Rav Steinman said, "Perhaps we need to explore in our university, that would be too much, but parnassa institutes." Most of those were people could uh support their families. Rav Moshe Heller who is right now the senior Rosh Yeshiva in Eretz Yisrael, says, at least quietly, that we have to recognize that a person can be a ben Torah even if they're not in the dolled costly Beit Midrash and the working world. In America, many of you might know Rav Aaron Lopiansky who wrote a very very fine book about ben [clears throat] Torah for life, uh meaning how to be a ben Torah in the working world. I think there is a recognition that the old paradigm is not fully working. It works for a lot of people. It doesn't work for other people. Let me explain this. Even in terms of ruchniyus >> [clears throat] >> it's not always the best way. Not everybody is cut out to learn full time. And forcing them into kollel often creates depression. It creates a lack of shalom bayis. It creates family tension. It's a very difficult issue. You can't have a one-size-fits-all society, religious or otherwise. And I can tell you that people are considering options, modifications. They get criticized. They get knocked down. It still takes a certain amount of courage to be willing to publicly discuss these alternatives. But I I can tell you they are being discussed, including army, including army, uh including creating a more religious units, including creating parnassah institutes uh for bnei Torah, which would keep senior separate men's and women's. I mean, they have some already, yeah, but they want to expand it. Right now they're considered to be chutz la'machaneh a little bit, not fully legitimate. So, the issues you're raising are are very very important issues to society in Eretz Yisrael in particular. Uh and as I say, uh it was based on what the Chazon Ish established as a state of emergency in the aftermath of the Holocaust, and somehow it became the norm over those 70 years. It's interesting that people forgot about the Chazon Ish's quotation in those 70 years, but Jonathan Rosenblum and other people are resuscitating it. There is a certain element of fear that's going on here as well, because like this, with all of the chisronos in the existing Chareidi system, you know, we've created a cadre of people who are lomdei Torah, etc., who are committed to learning. And you know, within a certain framework it works. So, now you're talking about opening up the framework, enlarging the options. There's a certain amount of fear that, you know, we don't know what's going to happen. Are people going to leave the fold? Are they going to go off the derech? We don't know. So, some of it is being motivated by by fear, and the fear in some ways might be well-founded. I mean, that's part of it as well. Change is always difficult. The Rambam says there are three types of um milchemes mitzvah. Two of them are not that relevant today. One is the seven nations of Canaan, so they're going There are no Hittites around. Uh the other is Amalek. Amalek, at least genealogically, we can't really identify. But, the main one is number three, lo shia Yisrael b'yad tzar, to protect the Jewish people from an enemy that is attacking the Jewish people. Based on that simple paradigm, one would say the war against Hamas is a milchemes mitzvah. What What would be the argument that it's not a milchemes mitzvah? So, someone would bring in It's very fair. A lotion of the Rambam in the Sefer Hamitzvos that even a milchemes mitzvah requires a an official declaration of war by a melech. So, someone argue even lo shia es Yisrael miyad tzar does not have a shame milchemes mitzvah without a melech. Let me say to you, that's very, very fair because it's one thing to say we're not going to wage war against Amalek, we're not going to declare war against Amalek aggressively. It's another thing to say defensive war is required of a melech. What if somebody breaks into my house with a gun? I can't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's one problem. Uh the other issue is Rav Kook. Rav Kook wrote First of all, Rav Kook wrote Rav Kook, so you really wouldn't necessarily accept him, but Rav Kook writes that anything that requires a melech can be satisfied by an elected government. And And the Ramban is much for that way as well. The Ramban in the Sefer Hamitzvos says melech o mi Had See Bor Masorla. Including any type of political leadership. Okay. But, let's raise another aspect of the question. Let's assume it is a Milchemes Mitzvah. Let's not go with another requirement. Okay. Who has to participate in Milchemes Mitzvah? So, everybody quotes the Mishna in Sota that says all of the exemptions like Chasan and Karem and Bayis only applies to Milchemes Reshus, but Milchemes Mitzvah Hakol Yotzei. Well, it's not so simple because Hakol Yotzei is referring to the Chasan doesn't have an exemption, etc. Does it apply to a Talmid Chacham or learner of Torah? Is a full-time learner of Torah exempt from Milchemes Mitzvah? So, someone will bring the Rambam in Hilchos Shmita V'Yovel where the Rambam has a loshon it's really combining two things in the Rambam that Shevet Levi means the tribe that's totally devoted to Avodas Hashem and they're not Yotzei L'Milchama even Milchemes Mitzvah the Sifri says. In the Torah they went out to Midian. They they they they sure did. But, he says what the Sifri actually says as a general rule Milchemes Mitzvah Levi is Patur. So, that's already a chidush a Shevet Levi Patur. That's a big chidush. And then they want to say the Rambam says at the end everybody can be a Shevet Levi even though he's not talking about Milchemes. I mean, after all, I can't be a Shevet Levi for everything. I can't be a Shevet Levi to eat Ma'aser. So, obviously the Rambam doesn't mean everybody can be [clears throat] a Levi, but they want to add the one and one together. The Patur for uh a Shevet Levi and then everybody can become a Levi. Now, the first thing I want to say is even if you accept that reasoning that does [clears throat] not translate into a Chareidi exemption. I mean, you have to There are two different things going on here and they're not the same. One is if I am learning Torah full-time, am I obligated to go to the army? The other is, if I'm Haredi, am I obligated to be I mean, just because there's no there's no Haredi exemption for Milchemet Mitzvah, no matter what you say. And the only argument would be it's not a Milchemet Mitzvah. You know, that would be the argument. They're giving you a mil. So, what can I say? I mean, there are His- His- historically, the argument has been there was no manpower shortage and there was just no need for Haredim. And just like the United States, I know, I remember myself, uh recognized an exemption for theological students. The yeshivas were the most crowded in history uh during that period of time. Uh so too. Now, that argument is was was a sustainable argument for a long time. As this war is dragging on, it it becomes less of a sustainable argument. So, what's the other argument people make besides the Thomas argument? They make the argument the army's going to be a negative influence on our kids. And I understand that. But, you know, it does go both ways. I mean, there is the Hester guys who are wonderful makatzei Hashem. But, but, but, there are indeed kids There's kiruv going on in the army. That's something people come from. But, a lot of kids do go off the derech. Quit So, if I'm a parent, I really get why I would be very concerned, for sure. The question is, is that a halachic ptur? As painful as as as this is to say, >> [clears throat] >> and I'm just saying I'm just thinking out loud. I'm not I'm not saying anything. >> [snorts] >> I'm worried what will happen to my kid in the army. And that that may be a legitimate Well, obviously No, no. For physically, that's true. That obviously I'm no better than anybody else. But, I'm talking about I'm I'm talking about what can you do. The question The the is, is that does that fear translate into a halachic exemption from mitzvot? There's a lot of unfinished thoughts here going on here that are not fully articulated. You know, [snorts] you say one thing and someone says, "Well, what about my kids?" Okay. But [snorts] but, you know, what's going to be? So, I can tell you all that there's a lot of talk going on behind closed doors. And there is a recognition that both for political reasons, moral reasons, even religious and halachic reasons, there's going to have to be some accommodation with the army. And of course, that does require that the army accommodate as well. They've done some stuff, but there's a lot more stuff that can be done to make it to make it better. And things are changing. You know, the the the Chinese have an expression, they have a curse, "May you live in interesting times." That's a curse. And the Haredi world is undergoing a very, very interesting time right now on many, many levels. The types of schools, the introduction of some secular studies, Parnassa institutes, the creation of multiple options for different types of people, our relationship to the army. These things have to be rethought. You know, when Ben-Gurion agreed to exempt religious people in 1948, this was a condition of forming the first government of the state of Israel. The whole Yeshiva population in Eretz Israel was under 400 people. And Ben-Gurion was convinced that that it was not going to grow. They were going to die out and they'll disappear. So, it's a temporary little annoying problem that will go away in 5 to 10 years. [clears throat] So, he signed off on it. Baruch Hashem, in many, many ways, Ben-Gurion was proved totally wrong. Right. >> And [laughter] we have the Chazon Ish, and Brisker Rav, and all the people who built up Ponevezh Rav, who built up Torah in Eretz Yisrael. But, you know, that creates a new problem, meaning the whole predicate for all of the exemptions has less of a justification today, and therefore things have to be rethought. So, all I can tell you is that we're in a big, big process of rethinking. If you go to any place like Ramat Beit Shemesh, you'll see all sorts of new schools. Chareidi schools are being established with different emphases, different approaches, different constituencies. So, it's not going to be a one-size-fits-all anymore. It'll be more like America. Some people say that's awful. Yeah, I'm not even opining it's good or bad. Uh, some people say that's great. That's what That's exactly what we need. Be that as it may, whether you think it's good or whether you think it's bad, for sure it's coming until and unless it's arrested by the coming of Mashiach, in which we'll have different rules. Once that's Once that's