How Do I Help Struggling Children? Rabbi Shimon Russell & Rabbi YY Jacobson

so comes the father with his beard and pears and he goes with him into the tattoo paror and he helps him get a tattoo and the guy sees him the guy doing the tattoos and he's halfway through and he stops turns to the boy he's doing the tattoo on and he suddenly sees his te and he says to the boy if I had a father like yours I probably would have stayed from the yeshiva.net so we're sitting here at the keser Nafi fundraiser have the privilege to be sitting with my dear beloved friend and Mentor Rabbi shiman Russell who I think I don't have to introduce to uh the audience but let's say he's a world-renowned therapist Mentor educator and uh we had the privilege for many years to attend together k shabbaton for parents who are struggling with their children so now we have the privilege to sit once again and talk about uh ourselves and our work we're all work in progress all of us uh I don't think any one of us came down to this world perfect if we would have come down perfect we could have stayed up there and we're all trying to become better people better Jews better parents better teachers better Educators better principles better mentors better human beings better Hashem especially as teachers and as Educators and as parents so that's what we want to explore absolutely none of us have uh all the answers to all the questions all of us I think could learn more can grow more can uh challenge ourselves more so uh I'm going to begin my pleasure always my pleasure to sit with you thank you is just you know I only regret that we spend a couple of hours together doing this each question I'm I don't know the questions but each question is a world and and you could spend hours and hours to do it properly to get to the depths of it that's my only regret when I do these interviews is that you know it's like a quick answer it's not it's not really looking at the sugya deeply nuanced different variations of how to answer it different circumstance each question is a course nevertheless we'll do our best but I hope the audience will understand I really truly you know I hope they'll understand that in the context we're giving thought we're trying to provoke thought and not that what what I'm going to say is the definitive answer to any of these questions that's absurd right and someone asked me a question um I shared it with my wife she said it's an obnoxious question it's an OB obnoxious question but I'm going to have the to ask it and the reason is because I thought it would actually help people understand where you're coming from and who you are as a human being not just as a professional therapist in Lakewood or now in Yan but who you are as a human being as a husband as a father as a mench as a human being someone asked me this question I'm a little embarrassed you feel awkward but the I feel awkward yeah you could see on my body language which is a big thing in your book facial Express body language your kids don't hear what you say they watch your body language okay so you could see my body language so this person said I don't understand uh why are people going to listen to RAB shim Russell when he's absolutely a failure because as he himself admits so many of his own children have struggled so much with yish with other things which means he was an absolute failure as a parent why is he preaching and pontificating about subjects he has failed miserably with he should just say I really don't know what I'm doing have a good day I'm moving to New Zealand this was basically the question not verba and I thought let me address it you sure and I apologize it's no reason to apologize you know any thinking person could have that question does have that question frequently I've been asked that question in one form or another and it's a good question you know we uh the I never divulge publicly the details that belong to my children that's their lives you'd have to ask them for their perspective what I with the of my children have discussed is where my wife and I began to realize how we didn't understand what was happening you know those with a variety of quite serious learning disabilities uh de facto learning disabilities that we failed to grasp and understand we were busy with medical issues with one of our kids we we just didn't see it we were busy like I think most decent healthy parents just trying to do the best they could with their kids keep them in the system keep them learning encourage them Inspire them and um slowly but surely we watch like dominoes that what we were doing which was really conventional regular that I absorbed from my reim that I read in books the common sense told me just was failing our kids wasn't working the hardest part of it all you know yes was there a time when I viewed myself as a failure I did some serious serious soul searching in the very early years perhaps 25 years ago uh when it started happening and I had the same question on myself I had the same question and I actually was uh exploring changing profession questions at that time um but I gotay and good from my and eventually emerged over a long long long period of growth to discover that my children became my greatest mentors my greatest teachers and um through working through their issues I it became such a gift to my life it sounds you know I'm I'm I'm nervous that it should sound arrogant because certainly not on the back of my children did I become who I am but it was through the struggles we went through that I freed myself to do what is so fundamental to which is really to look at my children to understand who are you not who do I wish for and want you to be not who am I going to try and leverage you to be but who are you and uh what happened for me was um some amazing experiences as I discovered that as I engaged them for who they were I became a different person as we said in the in the book in the uh before the beginning of the book there's a statement that the Journey of parenting is not just about who your children become but it's about who you become in the process it was in that very very very early days that I saw the difference and I changed the um the beautiful SAR bonim this line to Tar G comma bonim the tar of my G would come through my children and um and I abandoned the idea of feeling like a failure on the contrary I um I felt very humbled by it it was very good for arrogance that was very good for GAA extremely good for that um we did have a lot of pain over this but U my wife and I emerged into a place where we allowed the children to guide us uh becoming better people Kinder people more attuned people and then kazal opened up to me and it was amazing and I saw it everywhere as I do a it's like astonishing almost every time I learn I see things that I'd never seen before about guiding Us in and understanding our children better so um you know we did have the feeling of failure it did occur we overcame that and um I'm not proud proud you know of what it is I'm grateful that uh the process made me a better person my uh my rebi have still such a hard time saying I miss him so much but um he had said to me when we had left he said to me one time shim he said take this in the nicest way but if I was the Abisha I would only give you struggling kids CU I trust you to help them wow is that a fair answer very what do you think was and is for many of us the greatest form of resistance to make that shift in there a shift in Consciousness that it seems like you're describing from when it was your children's problem to when you s when you had to become a different person what's the resistance to that shift the resistance I think it's ego and Trauma I think that we're all frail on some level and when it goes wrong we know that the world around us like just the very fact you ask this question you know this is so many this is you know 30 years later through our struggles and the question is still being asked so unless you've done your ego work unless you've done your trauma work then it's going to touch a place inside you very very understandably where it will trigger your own sense of failure and inadequacy and uh you're going to start viewing your journey of parenting through your own inadequacy and ego instead of seeing your kids instead of seeing them you're really seeing yourself how do I know the difference as a parent if I'm responding disciplining educating my children from a place of Love or I'm responding to my own unresolved wounds and coping mechanisms because my own trauma does not come to me and say hey you're Mr trauma you're Mrs trauma my trauma says Hashem wants what is this a new liberal Progressive generation of my trauma doesn't call itself trauma it calls itself religion you're sh I don't know what it calls itself how do I know the difference well one of the things I asked myself that I ask my clients and people I kavi parents you know when they've so I asked so what do you do you know to you know straighten out your kid when you feel your child is not obeying you and they tell me their stories which almost always sound like laced with anger frustration disappointment so the question I ask them and sometimes it's a devastating question and it's such a simple question like how well is that working for you how well is that working for you and most people have no answer because they know it's not wow and when you know what you're doing you're an intelligent man I mean we're intelligent people we're kind caring and good people all of us you know we're not we're not talking about monsters here we're talking about very nice people who are repeating patterns of behavior towards their child that is profoundly not working and pushing a kid away so we ask ourselves the question how well is that working for you and when you realize you're repeating the same stuff again that's not working at all what chances are that's coming from the wrong place it's not about your child it's coming from about you defending yourself your ego Who You Are and that's why you repeat the wrong things even though you're bat him a kind person is there a way for me to catch myself in the moment like your kid comes into the kitchen 1: in the morning there's nothing to eat in this house or no I'm not going to sh shabas morning why should I go to sh it's boring and you also don't D and whatever it is is there away for T your mamy to catch themselves in the moment as the trigger is developing in my brain before the explosion before the implosion what's the mechanism can you describe like can you play it out for me there's nothing to eat in this house there's nothing to eat if that's the starting point of your journey dealing with your own trauma you will not do anything good you will not succeed but if you can then sit down afterwards when you realize I just pushed my child away from me like I love this child I love this child even at that worst moment if I was God for forbid to hear a basura ra that child died I'd be utterly devastated I love my child so then why am I treating them in a way that pushes them away from me after the incident that's when we need to settle down and start getting the advice and guidance that clearly I'm operating with my child from some primitive part of myself that's not the rational healthy the adult mature self in other words it's the 2-year-old inside of me talking to the 15-year-old exactly something like that so I'm actually the baby in in a certain way I need a parent yeah yeah and that's probably what's happening is the child is making me feel inadequate and that goes back to the inadequacy I felt as a child that was never resolved so I Rise Up angrily I'm not even angry with my kid I'm really angry with the people who made me feel that inadequate to begin with which by now is the world it's the whole world I'm angry with I feel even I feel can let me down like the when but the it's not attuned when you know that your response is not attuned to what's happening and not reconnecting you to your child well you know something's off something is off now my work is internal internal I should not be communicating with my child cuz I'll say the wrong thing in the meantime I mean a person needs help to work out what are those internal truths in the meantime there's a very simple simple technique that everyone would benefit from using it doesn't fix the problem but it helps us pause breathe pause and breathe pause don't ever respond in that moment of urgency if you feel like this Pro profound urgency to react don't pause breathe BR and breathe is not just a stalling tactic it's actually a way of partially settling your nervous system so you can bring yourself a little bit back more online and be thoughtful in how you're going to respond pause breathe I noticed in my own life how over the years of doing this work I speak slower I breathe deeper I speak softer in the interactive in a relationship with my children and those who come to me who are in severe trauma States I slow my speech I breathe deeper and then I co-regulate I help someone else calm down so in the moment of that interaction you're not going to fix your own internal triggers that you need to recognize okay it's time I need to go and fix them in the meantime pause and breathe and tune in to what they're saying so what you're really suggesting is that a major part of Education requires selfawareness parents are talking about my child my kid my boy my girl where's theas where's the sh and we have such a beautiful house I have M neish for my shabas table and they're destroying everything and they're not interested and you're saying stop talking about your children and gain a little selfawareness start looking at yourself because in in truth we ought to be engaging our children like all children without any exception when they come in the world need structure rules and discipline to thrive all children they need structure right like the Al said like a wild animal they're born they need stru they need us to create structure for them whether it's bedtime structure or shabas table structure or clothing structure or you know hygiene structure they need structure to to be able to survive so we can't have a philosophical conversation with a four-year-old about why I'm imposing structure on you that's something we mature people adults we do for our kids to help them be able to function in a society one day so we impose structure how do we do the structure so we create rules and we communicate the rules when bedtime is when this is why you have to get dressed not poking your brother in the ear at the table you know being polite we give them rules the rules are designed to give kids a parameter boundaries def definition of what is the structure that we feel is healthy for them so they can live productive lives comes along discipline when they don't keep the rules so we offer discipline in order to uphold the rules which were designed to create the structure there is no tackless in rules and discipline if not for helping support structure the purpose is structure stop getting angry is not a standalone Concept in Mish it's a means to an end the end being structure that's what we're after not just running around with a stick there's some to have a stick that's not the point so if we're doing that but undermining the administration of the rules and the discipline through getting angry mad loud in this generation I can tell you about pre I wasn't there you know so I can't tell you how it worked but I can tell you in this generation getting angry mad losing one's self-control while trying to do the discipline or the rules whose tacket is only to enforce the structure losing control undermines the very message of the rules and discipline and therefore undermines the structure so then a parent has to stand back and saying huh I'm doing rules and discipline in order to create the structure but in the very delivery of the rules and discipline I'm undermining their ability to be effective because I'm intimidating and making my kids scared and frightened of me therefore undermining that the structures a benefit to them they just see me as an evil enemy so that's the point where I have to take a look at myself and say huh what is wrong with me that I'm not delivering the rules and the discipline in a way that utilitarian and will help my children be able to adopt the structure which is the Tas of my parenting therefore it must be something about me so let me get help because I would like to learn how to convey the rules and discipline in a way that my child can absorb and receive them and therefore know that what I'm doing is in their best interest when I get angry and mad my child doesn't experience them as in my best interest they experience an angry father who basic basically he's being inconvenienced by my lack of being disciplined this is about him it's not about me I would never occur to me it's about my best interest to grow up as a healthy person so then maybe is it possible that for so many of us our own wounds and coping mechanisms are so repressed we are so unaware of the patterns we have created to survive that it's really God's kindness to us to cause our children to challenge us and Trigger us and make us muger and overwhelmed just so that we should be able to actually be healed we should always say wow wow wow you are triggering me what is going on in me and it brings it to the four and I can actually deal with it in other words our children are really mentoring us even if it's unintentionally absolutely it may be that our generation you know before mhia is coming together that that's exact that maybe says children bring back their father through them that somehow you know M once said the PK in in and he says rash says they're the Bing it's obviously talking about the Holy stones of the B and yet rash said something amazing amazing he said the ofas was to create widespread chuva for clis bring us all back to Bam to realize what we'd lost this D this treasure so we would come back and do Chua every ponus through history was designed for the same purpose so whether it was the Spanish Inquisition or or the Holocaust in our times every ponus a CL was designed to bring us back to b island to make widespread Juba so he said like this he thinks that rash is referring to what will happen at the end of days if we don't listen to all these messages Al this message will come through our children our children will finally awaken our most precious precious possession will wake us up to take a look at ourselves and ask are we really authentic in our are we really connected with love are we modeling a loving relationship with a child so that when a child MRI matriculates they will transfer the loving relationship with thereof to the to AES because we will have instilled a metaphor despite and when do you do that best when they defy you when they defy you and you don't ignore them you respond and you teach them how to behave and you do it in a loving and caring way you inculcate in your child that my father is an A so when they matriculate they can transfer that experience to B which I think is probably the tackless of the whole thing on a deeper level so if I am regulated I'm regulated a mother of father father they're regulated in their brain and their system their nervous system as you say what does look like versus if I'm disregulated can you give me the two conversations I'm disregulated my child is not behaving maybe he's hitting his brothers maybe he's on older maybe he's older and he's doing things very inappropriate maybe embarrassing for me sure but I'm regulated versus when I'm disregulated or to put it differently what is my response when I'm attuned to actual and what is my response when it's not about it's just about my own Survival yeah it it plays out very simply we want ideally in Theus of that my child should experience I'm not saying never necessarily intellectually experienc because they're little but their nervous system their body their what their internal mechanism should experience that that which I am controlling directing creating Gul you know rules structure boundaries on them and in other words interfering with their ability to have fun sometimes or stay up whatever they're doing that that which I'm doing interfering with their desire is only Lis for them it's not th parenting out of convenience I'm parenting out of fear I'm parenting out of friendship I'm parenting because I'm afraid of what the neighbors are going to say about me that my child experiences my parenting what I'm doing for them is call Kula about their their development and success in this world when I lose myself in the process I'm really reflecting back to my child that what I'm trying to stop you doing is because you're hurting me you're offending me you're upsetting me it isn't about I want you to be a successful human being and therefore I'm trying to help you and that's why I'm standing up to you and saying no is because I want you to be accomplished and successful and to have a wonderful life we sacrifice that when I Lose Myself and I parent out of my own fear anxiety or shame so then the child doesn't experience that and what we're actually conditioning them to believe is I that I can't trust my parent that my parent is only interested in themselves this is about them which creates profound insecurity in stability inside the child's world a child needs to know that what my parent is trying to do for me even when they say No in fact specifically when they say no is actually toless for me they will get that from the Smile of my face they will get that from my relaxed posture they'll get that from me saying to them look if you want to take the ice pop I a 5-year-old and I'm going to take an ice PO he said no please don't we're having supper now and the kid said I don't care I need one and you say to the child I understand you need a shaa but after supper I don't want you to you know lose your appetite I want you to have a good s I'm taking one and then you look at the child and you say well go ahead I'm not stopping you and they say well can I take it I said I told you not to but then you said I I I didn't say I said I'm not going to stop you taking it if you want to take it take it and then here's a consequence this is what's going to happen if you take it you're going to go to bed you're going to go to bed right after supper immediately no playing so that's up to you but I'm not going to stop you taking it and they look at you're like I'm taking it I'm taking it you say I know and then you go to bed after supper but you stay completely calm and you don't run in front of the fridge or freezer and block them intimidated by this 5-year-old you know you stand there and padlock your fridge and tie it up to stop and take it you say go ahead I'm not stopping you unless they're triggering the 5-year-old in you who F unsafe I will be in front of that you go to that refri you will finally take revenge against there you go the adult who harassed you at the age of my child will never know that I'm trying to do this for you this is about you not me he'll just see a parent out of whack out of whack exactly and he'll never get the message that I need to self-discipline this is good for me my father's actually it may be confusing again that's not an intellectual thought in a 5-year-old but it's an experiential that's that's they're experiencing by me staying calm and saying look I'm telling you not to but I'm also telling you I'm not going to stop you but if you take it you go straight to bed after supper these are your choices I think this is what makes it difficult for many people possibly and that is is the father and mother feel that they're just following the they're following the they're following the by a shabus table you say I'm paying tuition so that you should learn something in Yesa is something we have done for thousands of years is answering or is sacred etc etc etc you're telling me don't get angry look at your you have trauma from your parents from your Zas from your bubas from the all very good psycho Babble I need to educate my kid he is betraying this is not personal I'm not fighting for money or covet here I'm fighting to create now you're hacking with me my coping mechanisms my trauma I never saw the word trauma where did you invent this from okay so so this is already a workshop this question there's a workshop you know if you were to ask me you know if I had like two three minutes to make one statement you know to parents and from something I've leared about life that I kind of wish I'd known then so here's what I would say and then we'll come to the answer so we all know there's a mitz the have children there's a Mitzvah beautiful Mitzvah we should have children a of that Mitzvah is actually which says that wanted to fill the world with people he wanted the world to be full of a yesu of people so what is that mitzah I don't want to go into the details now but what it means to me and I've discussed this with various it means to me they wanted a world full of healthy people that means like this we should try and bring up our children to to be healthy in body and mind to be happy to be capable of self-love and capable of loving others that's our goal that's what we're meant to be doing that's the bring up healthy people people who can't be part of the ISU that's not what they wanted he want for for now the same time we have all the beautiful things you said so eloquently a few minutes we have a as parents to teach our children right exactly now here's where I wish I'd known this what I'm about to say if there was one regret I have as a father I didn't know this the the Simplicity of what I'm about to say it's going to be jarring to hear it at first and and I would only say if people are listening if it's confusing what I'm about to say it's the confusion is because we didn't have time to tease it out not because it's some confusing it's because we don't have time to play it's a novel idea and there's no time to really tease it out but here's the question I ask people you have two a dual Mitzvah as a parent to bring up a healthy child person capable of living with the is of I repeat healthy and body and mind happy capable of self- Lov and love others that's Howes as parents the same time we have AES to bring up children in the mitzvas here's the Shila talking about prear Mitzvah little kids especially what happens with that when on the occasion there seems to be a conflict between those two what do you do which takes presence there's a conflict you say to your kid your kid comes down with no sors and you say to your child sh did you forget your SES and your child says he's 6 years old and he says I hate my SES there's a conflict right classic easy thing that could happen doesn't have his yaka she doesn't wear tights you know something's off and now there seems to be a conflict between my child and and so F which come which comes first which is more important if you can't do both of that moment which or if if you're trying to do both which takes presidence and the answer isar that we have to bring up healthy children and therefore never compromise with a young child ever compromise levara for the sake of installing a Mitzvah so if I know for example there's a small group of kids who could handle they can hangle a tough parent who sends them B back upstairs and it won't interfere with their development as a healthy person then by all means send them upstairs and give him the stern look the angry look you know if that you floats your boat and and you know and get him to where the sits is and everything's good as long as it doesn't stare the chevar but if God forbid it and they come down in their you're wounding your child wounding your child process you're discon you're calling them disconnect or feel unsafe you're not teaching them self love or loving others you're not teaching them how to be happy if you're interfering with the development of CH Sor then you remind the once and you let it go at the moment Let It Go and later on you sit down with them in a way that does not interfere with the chevis Yara and you discuss the mitzah what's wrong with the SAS and you know what you find out you find out he's still wearing Mickey Mouse szs he parents didn't upgrade him to a nice pair of SAS and the kids are making fun of him or someone chewed off he chewed off half his SAS and the boy next door is making fun of him who knows but you sit down with him respectfully and lovingly and you find out what's the problem here but that's within the confines of leis now if you've done your personal work it's very possible the that moment when there's a contradiction you can uphold theis beautifully because you did your personal work but if you haven't done your personal work chances are in your Zeal which is totally understandable to fulfill the MIT and make my child listen to that get to on time put his finger and dve them properly in my Zeal to do that I compromise not by deliberate it wasn't thoughtful but by accident I compromised bring up a healthy person ultimately I mzik my child what's fascinating is that when we put the doggish on remember they might to go side by side in normal it's only when they're in conflict that we are on the side of always always maintaining chevis what parents report what we discover and everyone sees and I just wish I'd known this earlier is that you create a clay kibble for Mitzvah that's what happens when the shev say Sor is done properly you create the clay kibble so even if they're not ready now they will be ready soon I asked many g is how many times did your who had gim for fathers how many times did your father like mentioned to you wash NE ofas in the morning put on your SES how many times once they reminded us once they left it alone there was none of this yelling and screaming so you're saying on the contrary if you really care about mitz thank you you're saying something much deeper you're not just saying Health before religion no healthy happy religious you're saying something much deeper if you want religion to be authentic that's right if you want it to permeate to penetrate that's right to have longevity rather than just superimposed repressive that they may abandon when they're older or just be angry this is a prerequisite it's a prerequisite exactly if not you destroy that's what you're saying I think it's if is going to destroy the child it's not y it's going to be a fake it's going to be just out of dread and of course and and and stress of course and it's external it's all external it's not it's not deeply felt inside which is what we see so it's not that emotional health was Victorious over yish that is what yides needs it needs people it needs Souls it needs a healthy brain exactly and this is to me it was the most profound awareness that came to me and our journey through our parenting and in fact what's amazing is let's go back to Kashi for just a brief moment the entire model of Crisis I've been trying to teach in the world is about repairing the damaged attachment that happen because for whatever I'm not blaming anyone I did the same mistake but not doing the shevis properly created a child who was not capable of feeling good about themselves and self- Lov and loving others the crisis approach is really what we're doing is re repairing the damage upholding chevis isara creating a healthy relationship Health clay kibble a healthy clay kibble and what most kids will do with that if we walk away from religion for the time being with crisis with children who are seriously seriously in crisis we walk away from that but instead we focus on repairing the damaged attachments relationships love creating a healthy person ruber to ruber on their own they start exploring religion they go back to when they want it back in their lives you're saying because if mitz is really the true path and the healthy path to life physically spiritually and emotionally that's what hashem's blueprint is correct so if you really create healthy children they they naturally they want to be healthy people that's right that's right that's right this Prof it was so profound to me where I saw this so you're saying that we should actually trust yite more like we should trust God's system a little more that if we have healthy and happy children they want to live the best lives possible don't be so insecure about Judaism and when they come back like whoever knows the so amazing to me people don't see it rash something so profound right is what that means my child has these struggs of they have character a certain character this you know you know we wish we'd know it when they're born but we didn't and kosov the next door neighbor the friend the kid that bullied them all the events that happened in their lives is how they reached their ticket that's the arish says they go through their specific journey and that's how they reach their tick if we would see that and realize my job is to privilege the privilege I have as your father is to help you recognize these challenges and struggles that KES gave you and I'm going to help you with it I'm going to help you be the best you you can be by being a healthy person so when the says which is why every call goes out on shabas you're essentially saying all of life is that way look I leave that if you're going to fight about this shabas you're going to take him away from all the other shabas it's it's in a public setting it's dangerous for me to you know because the lon you know will will misinterpret what you just said but conceptually yes absolutely yeah I meant conceptually conceptually not specifically but conceptu absolutely 100% conceptually that's the concept creating healthy people is the great greatest possible way for K of ter mitz is pure to me is P it the authentic ter mitz is is incorporated internally and meaningfully in healthy people so now I understand there's a which is a from said a man asked me he says there's two things that I love and I know they both precede the Universe I love them both SOI said the world says that yes this is I think so I think so the the the work we do like I again I go back to what we wrote In the book The Journey of parenting is not just about who your children become but about who you become in the process when we see this simple truth when I free myself to allow my children to refine me to help me observe my own weaknesses impediments flaws what I came back for so they can help me Orient towards my own repair and therefore my own fulfillment of my journey in this world and then everyone wins everyone's a winner but it's very hard for many of us to let go of the expectations the shame and the ego especially that all three are camouflaged as Hala yeah and we don't call it ego shame expectations we call it God's expectations what's so fascinating about that is that you know in the yes world the world we're all so like keen on philosophically working on ourselves the philosophy of being by working on our mid you know working on who I am as a person like midus working on midus that's the M been to work on that the the foundation you know we know that's the foundation for it all that's why it's not included in mitzvas because th the foundation for the whole mitzvas and we give let me say take a deep breath breathe pause and breathe we all I think think we all believe this intellectually I believe the total world would uphold and believe what I just said is the of all like the G says theava says the introduction you know into that that's the T of person in this world is T right that's the T I think we all know work on ourselves philosophically but guess what the greatest vehicle we ever have in our lives for working on our Midas is our relationship with our children and our spouse those two are the greatest Vehicles isn't it bizarre and odd that we don't recognize that we'd rather learn Sim on tiidus then actually go home to the children and the spouse and do it that's bizarre so you're saying when my child triggers me at the chabas table or the dinner table at any point of the day that's actually the greatest opportunity for me to fulfill the mission for which I came down to the high purpose of this world could be played out I should cherish the opportunity to go inward absolutely heal myself absolutely and learn how to respond from a place of love it's what I call an m mdo a midus development opportunity the child is stressing you at the table I'm going to bring the best of who I am to that moment in order to help my child become a better person by me embodying the truths and beliefs of being an while I deal with it that's my goal you know we're not perfect people but that's the goal it has to be that I recognize that the struggles with my children and my spouse are more valuable to me than learning the spum about working on myself but not actually taking it home and engaging the children and doing it like again this is topsy turvy world that we would engage ourselves quicker in the pursuit of analysis of the everything will do that more passionately than doing the actual work those for are telling us to do at the shabas table or with our spouse so you're saying many of us are like doctors that when we're called for an emergency to save somebody we say no no no I'm busy reading medical textbooks I don't have time to go save anybody well again I I hate to be or sound cynical you know I want to be respectful no one does any of this purpose of course I I think that we get lost we get taken up in the moment but if we would just sit like again it goes back to that question of so how well is this working for you how well is it working you're saying the proof is in the pudding if your children are happy healthy passionate and enthusiastic you're doing the right thing if they're miserable and they hate your guts and they hate Judaism something's wrong it's time to start asking deeper questions and again that's not to blame the parents because my thesis Lins with the idea that more or less good enough parenting will create more or less good enough children who will become more or less good enough adults who will marry more or less good enough adults and have more or less good enough children that's the process however if trauma strikes and we know you know that today is not the time for us again to review all the different aspects of trauma but when trauma strikes it's become clear and clearer to me that more or less good enough parenting wasn't enough wasn't enough so if you have your own childhood trauma and then trauma strikes your kid more or less good enough parenting doesn't work it won't be strong enough that's what we do at kesi what we what people report back to me is they've discovered that the primary doggish well that's really what you know people ask what is Crisis what does it mean can I if you don't mind I just so chis we moved away from the the doggish being on the kid the first doggish is on me in crisis it's the first doish is how can I recreate healthy attachment with my child so my child would be safe secure seen and soothed by me prior to me doing any interventions to try and facilitate my child's Behavior to change the first doggish is not the child the first doggish is me as a person well isn't that syonic with everything about Judaism everything about yadis everything about do the the the the the being an evid Hashem doesn't that start with me working on me of my Midas so therefore yes isn't the greatest gift my children ask not what your children can do for you ask what you can do for your children yes well in a way it's it's that we have this symbiosis that we sit back and realize that why did I put these children in my family you know I went on a journey 20 years ago 25 years ago where I asked this question like it wasn't conceivable to me that in the um the secular metaphor of the St coming with the baby dropping down but but when shipped the you know husband and wife create a goof they create a goof they don't create aish and the aish in His Infinite Wisdom chooses where to put the Nish in which goof this is posha to me in y so the question I asked myself is if we're so messed up as parents why did they wish to put that Nisha there like if I was so bad was nobody else in Lakewood he could have found next door creating a goof that night he could have found nobody else only the Russel that doesn't make sense the messed up Russel yeah exactly so it occurred to me and I went on a very deep Journey you know my learning changed my T changed my relationship to Yus and Hashem changed it all changed when I began to see Pia and it was so freeing for me because when I accepted okay the ab gave me this child so this child is meant to be exposed to those siblings okay let's take a deep breath let's take a deep breath ahuh sibling got traumatized before we ever knew this child came in they us to put that in the sh what he didn't know that they were going to be exposed to a sibling who was traumatized apparently he didn't know right that's Kira so why did he put that child there this simple philosophical question drove me crazy for years I took the question to Gim and to rebas and ranim and everyone gave me the same answer it has to be that they wanted that chantu be exposed to this child so why well apparently their reaction to that child was going to help them engage the specific work they need to do to heal their cpers that they came back to heal in this world and it's my gift as a parent to help them do it this wasn't you had that sibling it had to be precise okay so let's be mature how do we do that how do we help her not not at all this wasn't a mistake no a random mutation right I said look the BR you know I joke and should take this you know my closest closest when we were in those childbearing you know the years where we had our children during now it's you know the grandchildren obviously but in those years and I would frequently go to Shalom Z of friends you them and Kish you know you give them the regular Etc all the right and then I would pull him aside only my closest you need and I would say to them listen your uncle whoever it was I have another BR for you they say okay I say that as soon as possible that you should you and your rabbits you should work out what's wrong with your baby why they came back what the FL laws are they brought back find out what's wrong with them and patiently and lovingly help them and they thought you were crazy it's what we're here for they thought you were cursing them no my friends understood me well it's what we're here for and we think we we all think we got this perfect child never dawned on us of course they came back with imperfections call and they're going to have kosov is that sibling who was traumatized Who's acting out in the home and driving everyone crazy and they're born into such a home that's R and Abra that's not an accident can we please Embrace that and can we please focus on what can I do to help you how can I help you through this because I can't you started to cry when you said those words that they didn't come down perfect and we need to be here for them what triggered that emotion was it just the thought of your own children no it's the thought of Clo's children it's like these precious Nas come back you know we weas but they mppus especially now at the end of days with gulim they they're all mppus Rin shalum we expect them to be perfect what are we what are we saying they're dealing with a lot they're dealing with a lot they have struggles they have to fix 5,000 years of history for messiah they got to fix it all and and and we're privileged in this generation that we're getting these nishas can't we reorient ourselves to see they're not a burden to our lives but they're the gift of Our Lives can we not communicate to them sha you did nothing wrong you have ATT you have an Impulse disorder you're not going to make it very well in our system that's not your fault you didn't do anything wrong can we start with that and you don't have to be rer no no you don't you have to be you sub on this week's par truma we just L it the the the the says it that he said said we we're g to make for the he fills the whole world we should make it no he said to how are we going to do that and said no I'm asking you I'm asking you your he goes on to say when he said bring in the the and the said you you own all the C of what are we going to bring to you and the ab said no whatever you can bring a little tiny thing bring something can we not look at our kids and realize what they're carrying back into this world who knows knows so like we had an x-ray when they were born and we could like spiritually we all the M would come back from free the and they would look at this child as it's born and put a tag and tell us exactly we' don't go out of our minds but that's our gift so yeah we have to overcome who we are to see that and we have to gift our children and that doesn't mean being weak and lame on the contrary that's my kades to see those those struggles and help him and that needs structure and it needs rules and it needs discipline it needs our Authority it needs us setting the agenda of our homes it needs us teaching them about t Mitzvah but all under the framework of Lara from the place of health of Health they want a healthy person yeah father we have to be and sometimes we have to be tough and strong but you can be tough and strong with kindness you could say no to your child that sheaa the answer is no and they say tati I hate you and you look at your child you say that must be hard for you for this you really have to be regulated yes your child telling you I hate you you're the worst TTI who ever lived I wish I can have somebody else's t i remember the joy an emotion of reaching the place in life where I was able to look at my child six seveny old and say to them that must be so hard for you and you were internally calm that's the key yeah your child knows if you're internally because I don't think my kid hated me I think my kid was manipulating me and trying to get their way and it was for me to teach them in a healthy way shaa this is not about you know you hating me and you think you know I'm going to earn your love now by giving in the answer is no and no I don't have to to tell them that's sh sh you can't say that to your father that's a you don't speak like that to your father you don't speak like this speak like this guess what happens when you do it the other way later on your kid comes in sorry Daddy and they want to hug and a kiss and I'm so sorry and he say okay shaa you didn't mean it in the first place you didn't mean it in the first place why does a father say you know speak like this to meus you know if you curse your father your I don't know why does a father do that what triggered me could you that's your own internal stuff because you got these two I feel worthless basically and you may good place no it's coming from a good place a father he's got this of of teaching mitzz I got to teach him I got to teach him it's like a father once said to me and and he met well it was a KI Conference and and he me well he he'd heard a whole shabas of all this kind of raid and I think it was very very hard for him to be the first time exposed to it and on MTI sh shabas panel he asked a very good question and and I was glad he asked it because there was polight clapping around the room which meant that other people were feeling the same way and I was gratefully asked but the question he asked was um like I don't get all this you know it doesn't make any sense to me you know a kid has to be his parents you know I understand all this we have to them they us like help me out here and people clapped I was grateful so I said to him like this let me ask you a question V where is the Su parenting in the we got everything covers everything everything you name it we got it where's parenting harut where is it it's not there so I have a ter CL have a tery ter CL is the whole T parenting we have to be the is parenting a ter clly I have a ter pry I said to him I'll tell you exactly where the Su parenting is in the it's the fifth of the see you look to me right that's the Su parenting he didn't understand so I said let me see I'll tell you how I feel the of right and he got off again the I great excellent who the so I'll tell you what the to is telling us that we have to teach our children and that when they get older they'll have AAS do you think that'll work if you hit them and whack them with a hammer all the time and yell at them how will your children grow up to have a to you to beim with a because of to you if you didn't do if you put everything in front of it if you didn't do your own work the Su parenting is K we have to do parenting in a way that when our kids go up they'll be M us they'll be so grateful to us he gr love the terets I have to tell you but I think the terets are M we have to we have to be disciplined we have to be structured There Are Rules there's to there do it all in a way that when your kids experience it at the time they're experiencing it not intellectually pre-int tellectual they're experiencing it as my father's doing this for me this is in my best interest so that therefore when they matriculate and become older they for what my father gave me it's very popular today for 30 40 50y Old mothers and maybe grandmothers to turn to their mother who 70 80 85 or father and say you know you really did not know how to be good parents you guys were which they wouldn't even conceive in their nightmares to say to the previous generation but today you don't know what it means to be a parent you didn't know how to deal with us and very often parents Z this already B elter get very defensive we had Mr sish we had not a penny to our name I gave you everything this is your ungratefulness to and then I get an email to today's generation so how should they respond how should the 65 or 75y old mother who's now being accused of emotional neglect indifference stupidity ignorance complete no understanding of what is and now her daughter who is struggling with her own kids is saying this to her mother and the mother gets very defensive I don't blame her I I don't think there's anything therapeutic to be achieved by lashing out against one's parents you know there for the sake for the grace of God go I if I had been born in that generation I wonder what I would have been like so lashing out and blaming I've never seen a Tois I do see a Tois in in in in grasping my internal pain and hurt in a therapeutic setting you know there's ways in therapy excellent ways of dealing with that and overcoming it so I'd like to shift you know that the the model that's not therapeutic but it is therapeutic to acknowledge my pain and anger and hurt in a therapeutic environment and a therapeutic process to get rid of it but when a parent hears it I can tell you what I did with my kids I apologized I evoked that pain and I apologized I went into therapy with them those who wished and said I was not there for you I did not see your suffering and I take responsibility and all that happened was my kids being M me more and loving me more it never hurt ever so you had to be very introspective well I I wasn't there at the beginning but I understood I did not see what they were hurting with I thought I was doing a great job actually people in the early days they thought the Russel had a beautiful heart no they did people said it it's very interesting they used to think we were like nice people you know I asked my wife many times are we nice I think we are no so it seem to me we're good people and we're nice people but I so you're saying when parents can acknowledge the pain of their children rather than become defend Kish who made this world in a way that the nature the teor ingrained imprinted in the nisham of a child is to love and respect and want that love from their parents sh made the world that way we all know as we get older if you still have older parents you know you're dying for them to say I'm proud of you right you're just dying everyone's dying for it even you're 60 years old and they're 90 and you you just want to hear it hasem made it that way if again this can't be an answer for all situations and all people and all circumstances but if parents are able to do the work on themselves to Simply acknowledge to their children I didn't see I didn't know and I hurt you and I would love to know and I want to hear and I'm willing to do the work on myself to see if I can find a way that this doesn't happen again it is the nature of a child to Crave that relationship and want to be Michel and want to let go and want to rebrace that relationship I think that many times parents who haven't done the work on themselves end up in a head space where no no Kim is kids respecting us it's not the other way around and it's it we all no it's not true but they haven't done the work yet and and that may not even be their fault so I guess they make their children feel there's nobody to talk to I can't have a real connection with my parents I just have to Plate them and say the right thing but if if we really dig deep and you understand it could you may have to do it many times but if you man you're committed I don't care if it takes me 10 years I I I literally don't care if for 10 years one of my kids is going to like be mad with me and hurt me and whatever you know that may have happened and I okay so what this world the this world is so what who cares it took me 10 years let me do the work let me take it on the chin and let me apologize not pathetically not like I'm a neb and you know a bad person I'm not a bad person I'm a good person but at the same time as being a good person I grew up with certain traumas I grew up with parents who were traumatized I had certain blank spots I I was blinkered it wasn't deliberate I didn't go to the score and buy buy those blinkers I had them and I didn't see them you and because I didn't see you I hurt you you know I've yet to find a child I've done this in my office so many times I can't even tell you is from the greatest work I've ever done is to watch the repair between children adult children adult children and their parents I cry with them when they cry we all cry in the room because it is such the nature that Hashem put in a child to want to respect the parents and love them and want to be Michael all it needs is that true humble authentic vulnerable honesty and when it happens magic can happen H so you mentioned before something very powerful that I just want to zoom into you said what pus gave you was that shift of Paradigm that Paradigm Shift where instead of seeing it just as a given these are the kids and they're pretty rotten and spoiled and filly my life with trouble you actually redefine yourself as an evid Hashem correct I work for Hashem Hashem put these Souls into our home this is their journey and my role is to show up with humility and love that was exactly what happened I realized these are his children not mine it's not personal it's not personal he gave me these kids but they were his these nishas are his they're not mine we don't own the nishas of our children they're his and my job is to show up in a compassionate authentic loving caring way with boundaries structure discipline you know the stuff kids need to thrive in life but show up that way to do his job I fact I remember specifically on a couple of occasions ding where I gave up ownership back to him of some of my children and said these are yours more than they're mine please help me do the job for you help me do the job for you that allowed you to show up rather than become in meshed correct with the problems and the crisis yeah like I let go of owning them I let go of viewing myself and my success through their that's that's a big thing for so many parents it's your success that will prove so my wife and I we collected friends I collect friends you some people like stamps and coins I like friends and uh my whole life I've collect we become good friends I collect friends I like good friends um and amongst our friends we were privileged our friends who were remarkable people special people people who had wonderful kids who got through the system well ruber DBA they did marvelously and they went to all the appropriate yeshivas and got married did the right shim and things worked out very well for they were our dear friends in the early days my wife and I would drive home from their Simas in silence in silence and it was uh it was a painful experience and we were grateful for them wasn't any jealousy trust me we were just delighted and grateful for them over the years we began to see what our children had done for us and to us what was more fascinating than all was when our friends reflected back to us How Deeply they appreciated our friend friendship and what we were doing was so moving to them and so inspiring to them and I think that's what you know we don't realize you know people watch us so there are those who may say who's rustled to be giving on I got it I know that I accept that but there are also everywhere I go people who are reading the book or listening to the Dres who are telling me thank you you're changing our lives our own lives not just our children our own lives we're becoming look to me those two words authenticity and vulnerability are probably the two biggest Midas I noticed missing in our world in our mat people feel if they'll be authentic and vulnerable their kids won't get into Seminary standing in the community well yeah and and I think there's a shift happening Grassroots bottomup shift happening in our world where people young people for sure this I have no suffing about the third generation like my children's age are craving authenticity vulnerability and discovering that those two Midas free you up in all your Aus hasem it changes your relationship to God it changes your relationship to humanity and that's where you break through the ego stuff when you decide to be vulnerable and be honest this is who I am with the gifts Hashem gave me and the challenges Hashem gave me and I will simply try to do the best with whatever he gave me what my lot is is in this world and I'll try to do it authentically when I left home my father of shom me took me to the airport and he th I was 18 I went off to Yeshiva my father was not a man of words after the war and um we went to the airport he made me I remember he told me uh check in I said I've never been on a plane I don't know how to do it so he looked to me he said well then why do you think you can go to Israel to Yesa go work it out so I worked out how to check in and then he walked me into a bar in he I never did this in his life and we both had a glass of whiskey and he needed it for him for sure not for me I'd never done this in my life to me ever and then he walked out and I followed him and halfway out of the airport he turned to me put his hand on my shoulder he said to me shim my name was Simon then my English name he said Simon he said do what you think is right and do it with conviction and then he left and I collapsed on the floor and he threw up and cried and cried and cried I realized my par my childhood had just come to an end and he'd summed up everything he wanted to teach me at these two Ls do what you think is right and do it with conviction vulnerability authenticity try and live like that and somehow I it's bizarre in a way but that's what I've tried to do and I and I don't think it's hurt me I mean we go friends is it hurt me to the contrary right it is you're saying this is what Liberate the need to be self-conscious and impressive and get validation destroys our psychic destroys us we are miserable people because of it and you're always worried about the next drush how will you look like will the is M me it's like it's so much better to mess up on the next rush and then say everybody I'm so sorry I was tired be authentic be vulnerable saying to be an evid Hashem is the most liberating psychological experience absolutely 100% what I I I don't know I'm just going to do the best like I said from the I'm a channel I'm just I'm a channel let me try and show up and do the best I can and your kids will see that and there's something magical will come to them as we saw when our family stabilized Nish stabilized but or I can say that my wife and I have roas from our children in a very unique way and special way watching them in their Journeys their authenticity their vulnerability and finding their relationship with a K is been very very heartwarming very heartwarming you know it's t there's a line from from the bat he once said the whole purpose of is to work on yourself when you'll ask a lot of let's call them who grew up with it very often they'll tell you for us what it really means is to fit into the system to make sure we're perfect families to make sure our children are filled with and and really seems like that this core that you're talking about both from the vagon and the balat which come from two different schools really that's all about working on yourself internally right how did that get forgotten by so many of us emotionally I I think that rightly so certainly after the Holocaust the the Mandate of Cadia was rebuilding the infrastructure I think the survival and authenticity of both the and the they put the doggish on the infrastructure and um and rightly so take a look we're here I mean can it's remarkable what happened absolutely remarkable but at the same time on a Grassroots level I don't think it's a contradiction at all that at the same time on an individual level I see the people resonate to the deeper ideas of my own tick amidis is where my relationship of do kab lies that's where it is without my ticken aidas how will I be humble how can I be an onov how can I even D what is toilla the essence of toilla is humility that I'm coming onto you bar I'm coming onto you because I can't because I can't so tiid you know it's you know mam says you know what people will think of people when they work on their Midas but it's clear to me that this generation and its struggles is taking us to this inevitable place I think historically where we're going to be forced to look and authentic you know I always quote over a line my mother Le Shalom she was a master teacher we had Brothers not alive anymore worked for the education department in London and he told us that she where we lived she was number two teacher ranked number two it's veryable thing so I asked her one time I said Mommy what do you think made you my number two teacher she said when I walked into the classroom like this when I walked into the classroom every day I wanted to present myself as a person that tmim would want to be if they want to be be me because I deal with them act and conduct myself in a way that they want to be me so that my knowledge is easy to convey to them they want that knowledge because they want to be me it was so beyond profound so amazing wow and it's the heart and soul of the to be received by the the one who's to be received well the child has to look at you and see a person they would want to be and when they do well they want your knowledge cuz they want to associate with you they want to be connected to you they value you so this whole system is such a winwin in terms of having children you know the U there's a famous piece about you right so they wish to why do we have a misus of parents and children why don't children drop off trees like apples let them fall off trees and they'll plant themselves in the ground and they'll grow and then they'll walk off we have human beings what do we need a Mias of parents and children for and the answer is because a MIT there's a MIT you need the struggle of with your parents you need the struggle of being parent that's for your so therefore they created Theus of parents and children because the T said that's the way the Nish reaches its ticket and without parents and children it wouldn't do it you know how freeing it is to understand that it's like okay so all the problems caused in families with sibling rivalry with issues been and then parents and children with the eego and all these struggles is exactly why the abish gave us the Matas of parents and children a marriage because in that Crucible you're going to have to work on yourself there is no alternative and that is the best vehicle for your tiidus in this world you can't do it anywhere else you can't do it properly you do it but not at this level Beni said he's going to do it without right I think he was the one right in all of right there's one that he could do this without right am I right no one else everybody else we need our spouse and children and in-laws and grandparents and says sh sh all my achievements is her credit if we would just see the the as I always say your problems are not in your way they are your way if you just see that then we can bring our authentic loving self to our children probably it's so difficult for me or anyone to be authentic and vulnerable if I'm operating from my amigdala from my Reptilian Brain I'm just trying to survive I just need you to think I'm a good guy pause and breathe let's stop there pause and breathe so authenticity and vulnerability is can only come from a person who has self-love yes that's right if you love yourself if I'm going to tell you about all my challenges and flaws and I'm afraid you're going to look at me like a nobody I'm not going to do that and that's what we're a lot of us are doing like see I compliment me you know my family you know many of my children you've seen them witness them not for a second do I think that you look down at me in any way shape or form it doesn't even occur to me but that's because you don't look down at yourself probably right well you know I if you had inner shame and self-loathing and and you really hated yourself in a very repressed unconscious level so I think I was there at the beginning of this journey I think I experienced a lot of bitterness a lot of pain I imagine I said things that I later came to regret I had a very eye openening experience one time when uh my eldest daughter was probably 14 15 and this is right at the beginning of our struggles and um I'd heard some news about one of my other children struggling it was erif chabas I remember very distinctly sitting at the T shabas table Friday night Mar you know I was in a dark hle of self pity and anger about the world and other people hadn't done the work at all yet and she helped me enormously she was home that shabis I think she was leaving the house to go out Friday night just as I had finished the meal fast I don't think I talked at all I was so gone and depressed benched quickly left my wife with the kids and I went upstairs to go to bed I was so ashamed and bannered and hurt on the way up the stairs I met her coming down the stairs to go out you know in her big deuna to go out for the night cover shabas Kover shabas KES and she made a comment to me she doesn't know this but she made a comment to me that killed me in that killed me dead inside but also opened me up you know and I went back to that story and it was so profound the gift she gave me cuz as she was leaving me she made a comment that it doesn't look to me like your Yiddish guide is working very well for you is it that's a good mashia wow that's a good Reber you're a good Reber she left the house I went to bed and cried and cried cried cried that was the moment your ego died yes I had many moments that was your moment of gula basically I was many moments like that where the truth slapped me in the face and I made a commitment that if the nus in my life stopped me loving Hashem well then I never really loved Hashem and I don't believe in this whole thing so I better get my act together and then I'm learning Mr I loveed M and then I saw it I'd never seen it before he says had I'd gone like through you know you you lay you lay the sa and then he says and those words came alive to me oh that's what he meant it's actually talking about you it's talking about me this safe is very relevant to me these kind of comments from my kids they were life altering I embraced them so deeply they were so they reoriented me it was like they moved the r of they Tau you what Judaism is they did they did they brought God back from Death to life well you know in a way I was always a nice Jew and I was like sincere and you know and I was a mmid you know more or less but I don't think I'd ever had an encounter with God fully I don't think I had till my kids started struggling I think till then I was doing everything right and just being a good Jew a good robot I think it was I think it was a good Jew around God if I can say that do you understand what I mean yes I think I was doing all the right things and you know you got a good I wasn't talking Ben Ben you know I was like I was following but I think I was following because it made me feel good I don't think I was following because I wanted to deeply connect to Hashem and it wasn't until the kids said lines like this that I realized if I wasn't a role model of a relationship with Hashem through the darkness then they probably never would be wow so that visceral real relationship with Hashem was created through the death of the ego that these children brought out that's right I I don't think it doesn't happen without some deep patch some deep adversity is you know I I wasn't madish this this is y the call but it's when it happens to you it's humbling it's your du here it's not your du here yes you have to get it down here you have to bring it down there and um the kids brought it there for me the kids took me there well what you say there's so many and I know my own life you have Rabon rash Rebus darim in many ways they have celebrity status in the Orthodox Community if I could say that when they walk in they get a uh people stand up you know there's a certain reverence whatever it is for them the vulnerability and authenticity can feel like a death sentence not not even consciously not in a malicious way but even unconsciously they may not even know it they may not know how much they're caught up in in the shell in the husk of religion which is completely not Divine it's almost perpetuating a tradition as you say dancing around God but I'm I can't be vulnerable I'll give Dres on the para you know there's an image to uphold and and and let's face it deep down his trauma or her trauma may be if somebody really knows who I am like it's all over and and and maybe even I don't I'm not let I know who I am I'm not even lying I lied I don't I don't even know who I am I can't afford that I have to be whoever I am I can't know who I really am I can't know my darkness so I judge no one I disrespect no one when I was a B Young B and out I went through many many reum and I kept finding flaws you know sort of higher and higher levels and I found flaws and it made me crazy one day I guess my Hebrew had improved enough I used to go to the ston and I went to him and I told him this problem wrote it out you know that I keep having you know and I keep losing faith in my re because I find a floor so he laughed at me he says to me said to me and then he yelled at me came right up to my face and he said to me no such thing he said to me the AA probably if I had to say the central best AA I ever received ceed from gim and I've heard so much in my life it was this he said to me cly boy he told me you have to select many Rim each who's a Muslim in an area a mik he said you could have one who in y is a different one you could have in shom Bas one and imp parenting anra he said in every M of Life Clyo he said verus musim in that M he said and then be yourself make sure you vle yourself and look away from the rest so I went through life and I recognized all the people around me had I didn't have they had it I didn't and I tried to be D to them in the mid that they were benched with in this world and see if I could be sh from it there isn't a m i don't expect anyone to be perfect for myself I found the vulnerability and authenticity was my vehicle I'm not sure it is for everyone it may be too hard I could only say that anyone who tries it if you're going to do it do it the whole way don't do it partially it's going to hurt you you either do it fully or don't do it at all cuz they will laugh at you they will hurt you but if you do it the whole way honestly I don't think I've never you know I receive a lot of emails you know that we both we share frequently right and support each other I receive a lot of emails that people resonate this truth deeply and profoundly and appreciate it enormously you know I've never got emails with people appreciate my H my wisdom you know you're such a smart person you're such an encyclopedia of Tyra but I got lots of emails about this your authenticity I think that's the you know for me that's my journey I heard fromon leans schl I think he shared the story that once went into the stier and it was a for his son or daughter that somebody was suggesting and you know serious and he asked the stier you know for his perspective and his and he he looked and he said how am I supposed to know I don't know the I don't know the girl see he says I came to you you're considered one of the I met them I raised them I never with them I don't know they see the guy left and he gave a scream he said the Stifler burst out laughing he says finally exactly finally exactly I don't think really in this world uh honestly if you go the whole way anyone can lose by vulnerability and authenticity by being honest about who you are I think people admire you more you know what they do when you get authentic and vulnerable people start feeling safe around you they start feeling safe around them and when they start feeling safe they lower their defenses and when they lower their fenses you get to know who they really are you discover they're wonderful people they good hearted and you can help them heal yeah you can help them heal their own wounds it's the key to me it's the it's the key go it's similar I guess like parenting you can actually tune in to them rather than defend yourself corre against them right exactly I have another question it's a personal question a mother shared this with me about you and I was surprised and I wanted to ask you about it cuz I wanted to understand your thinking this mother told me she called you up she lives in the United States in one of the states she called you up in y she has a 14 or 15 year old daughter struggling left the system left yish kite and depressed anxious angry resentful sleeping all day on a phone all night or whatever else she's doing and she went the regular route she's a successful person NYU psychology department she got the top one of the top people in NYU children or teenage psychology department and they spoke to the girl Etc she paid a lot a lot of money they diagnosed this girl anxiety disorder Defiance disorder uh depression the mother told me she said I had to pay $8,000 that you tell me that she has anxiety and and Defiance they said no we gave you a diagnosis we gave diagnosis and they wanted that the mother should force her into treatment and they would give her all these medications and this whole system that they made for the mother to heal this girl the mother called RAB shiman Russel who you may have uh may have heard of him may have heard of him and he listened for around 15 or 20 minutes maybe a half an hour the mother told me the story and he said to this mother no there's trauma there's terrible terrible trauma here and I'm afraid that if you just follow this trajectory in 6 months she'll be cutting her wrist what you need more than anything is attachment attachment attachment more attachment you have to work on yourself there's major trauma here and a lot of these professionals have very developed degrees and they know a lot of textbooks but they know nothing about trauma or very little about trauma they don't understand the soul of these kids they don't and I want to know how you sitting in youra without being a Novi as far as I know or having R in the classical sense you'll forgive me but I never saw that as ECT me neither what did you hear that gave you and you're you're a fine person you're not uh you're not a malicious person what gave you the Courage the the resolve the the wisdom to be able to say that to that mother you never met the daughter and with you said it with conviction you said it with Clarity what did you hear what did you hear what happens in your mind that you say this is trauma this has to be diagnosed differently the treatment is different so can I ask a a question first sure was I right do you know from this woman if I was right so the woman told this to me months later and said it was a miracle I was right you weren't only right you were a channel for God's miracle well because what happened was it resonated with her that didn't they didn't even mention the word trama they just mentioned she's rebellious she's defiant she has to come in here we will discipline her we'll give her medication whatever it is and and she said that she said that this kid used to speak about suicide this kid didn't sleep at night this kid in the house would curse the parents and she shifted her entire Focus actually on herself she just to be loving and kind and embracing and she spoke to to Me Maybe six or seven months later after the story and she said her daughter still has a long road ahead but she doesn't curse her parents there is a relationship there are conversations she comes downstairs she doesn't come down she comes downstairs you know a little like before the but she comes downstairs she smiles uh there's a relationship she's not cutting her wrist she's not on drugs so hell so I want to know what happened and this is not a academic question about what you do in your office I want you to give us parents and teachers the mechanism what did you hear to say they're misunderstanding this girl something else is needed and I'm sure this happens around 25 times a day I don't know if your diagnosis is always the same but you have seen enough and heard enough to trust your instincts I know you know I've been Z to work the from World the tire world is 35 years now it's a long time no it's how many children did you see how many I it's a weird question or how many teenagers did you see how many did you treat do you know when I left Lakewood 9 years ago I took all my files for shredding and I cried and cried when I saw that the pile of files I took the files out the folders to shred them because I wasn't going to take them with me and had delic and if it was locked up till them and the pile was higher than me on the floor was a mountain I don't know thousands thousands and thousands can I say one line just one line and then we'll tease out the one line and I think this is what's missed ready every problem began as a solution when I listen to a story especially about a young 14 15 year old and I listen to their behavior so the problem the parent is describing is the behavior I'm listening that that behavior is a solution the child is behaving a way to solve a problem something is off inside happening to them that is so disturbing possibly suicidal that this behavior is a way of coping with what's going on inside every problem began as a solution and when you listen through that prism when you take a look and stand back before you diagnose that it fits DSM in a certain category which it might sometimes is possible likely sometimes but I'm listening first through this Prison from family nice people telling me a story intelligently a mother's unfolding her story I see she's a compassionate probably nice sensitive intelligent woman hurting unfolds this story I'm already attuning to the fact that her child's Behavior probably began as a solution so the question is a solution for what and I've seen that so much of the struggling teen phenomena was directly connected to trauma early you know I explained the traumas this is not the time for it but uh there are different types of trauma and it's almost always usually complex trauma of one sort or another but when when you understand that the problem started as a solution what was its solution to or then it attracts you to open your mind to think about H what is this what is this Behavior response to I wonder what happened to her and that's probably what happened to me when I listened that's probably what the thought process was I'm guessing because you know so-called crazy behavior doesn't happen in a vacuum there's a reason why she's coming downstairs dressed like you know before you know the there's a reason for it that's a solution to a problem let's work out what the problem is and Ruba the Ruba is connected to trauma why is this hard for the psychiatric Community to grasp and for many even psychologists I think it there's more and more people in our world that are seeing this clearer and clearer I think in the um I the answer is I really don't know why the secular world has such a hard time but perhaps they don't understand the uniqueness of our world and our community and how things that in the secular world would not cause trauma do in the teror world they will in the teror world and I think they you know for those of them that lack that exposure experience and knowledge will misdiagnose I I it the way it was set over makes me uncomfortable you know I don't just like you know they don't get it I'm comfortable they obviously know there's a Sugi of trauma but I I can tell you I have relationships with some of the great madim in the field of trauma in the world today and when I tell them about the nuances of what religious trauma and learning trauma is in our world they are fascinated because they were unaware of it it it fits but they had never they wouldn't have seen it because you have to see for example you know when you're in a class you're a b and you're sitting in a you're a good boy bads I'm a good boy but you know what for whatever reason and there can be thousands the cup Abit nished if it's reason the brain is not working properly I don't know why and there could be many many reasons why what kind of leum is it for a sincere good kid to sit in class and realize I'm affirmed as being stupid every day good kid for 10 years for 10 years and my parents sent me back into that what does that due to my attachments when I'm affirmed I'm a loser I'm stupid when my classmates three of them were mishna for the brah Mitzvah and they got that and I wanted that too when I was 12 I really wanted it too but it wasn't sh for me and I had to sit with my shame and my embarrassment about myself I I don't know how the secular world could grasp what it is to be so this child's brain will cause him to disassociate from the community that causes him such pain could not will but could eventually tell him learning the attempt to learn evokes deep traumatic reaction in me because the standard I have learned to expect to myself is the standard of the best four boys in my class because they you should see what Reb's face looks like when they ask so why does he have to stop putting on filling because Tor comes from God teror is connected to Rel so God is a cause for trauma and my parents threw me into the system so they're also the cause of again all unconscious unconscious no one's thinking this but that's what's occur so for him to come to SCH and keep shabas tells him basically I'm a loser and and we're still many of them by the time the the late teenage years will say I will never put my child through what I went through through and so will be will cut off from Judaism as they've known it even at the great great loss of the culture of the CH of the good side they won't put their kids through that so this boy says I'm never going to do this to my children correct because a part of his brain is telling him this is a life that causes you incessant torture correct that's exactly what's happening not not consciously not his prefrontal cortex not his thoughtful Parts but the amydala the survival Parts saying to him connection to this world causes you grief about yourself it affirms your a loser you're stupid and it's all unconscious and the migdala can't afford to feel like a loser right no that's his job Hashem gave us the the that part of the survival part of the to make you feel that you're a feel like a person that's right so you need to go to the secular world and probably even get a tattoo that helps how does the tattoo help me well okay so it's all part of the disconnect that I'm affirming I'm disconnected to this religious world the tattoo is a statement sayle a stle I'm done let my grandmother see correct let everyone see I'm out I'm done done with this I'm done with this and it's all trauma and now the father who doesn't understand any of this and he's actually a good guy he may even be in Kyo for the last 39 years maybe a genuine balidis may even run Aid organization at night to help with cancer patients and he does everything and he really means well we're talk we're giving you know words talking about really good people and his mother says the whole to Hill him every day for this boy and he comes home and the father tells him that's not how you walk into this house it's not how you walk into this house I love you but it's not how you walk into this house and I don't even know the geham you're going to get what just happened to this kid's brain he went instantly into survival mode that why can't I walk into my own loving home with my own loving parents with my own bed my things my clothing why can't I walk into the warmth of my home the Safety and Security of my home because religion says I'm worthless so it distances him even more why would I want anything to do with a religion and that tells me that and he cuts himself off more from his parents sure by the way if you want a classic brilliant paradoxical intervention you know for the seriously crisis we're we're not talking about your kid who's in seventh grade and doing just fine we're talking about a kid in teenager gone off fry tattoos listen to the Lomas the father we help him understand what we just discussed and he gets it and he's heartbroken and we tell next time your kid wants a tattoo take him choose it with him and be there and pay for it now let's just understand the lomus just that this is is science by the way this is the classic paradoxical intervention the kids am migdala is looking for the safety of not being from by putting on a tattoo the tattoo represents safety safy the tattoo represents safety safety they didn't teach thata that a tattoo represents safety in in this context of course child that's what it represents this is not a call for people to get thatto for safety it's an is right that's could you say it one more time it's an is we are talking about stage four spiritual cancer right so comes the father with his beard and pears and he goes with him into the tattoo parlor and he helps him get a tattoo he creates the safety of attachment with his child what what does that do to the question the amigdala has that the amigdala decided religion is unsafe and religious people are unsafe and here I am in the tattoo paror getting the stemple that religion and religious people are unsafe and my father with his bord and payers is here discussing the exact T and paying for it what does the amigdala now con ude to or Kasha kha or Kasha Kasha we have a contradiction we have a contradiction 10 years religion told me I'm a loser and suddenly my father Mard P the very thing I feel is a stle that I'm not religious and he's with he's with me means huh the amigdala starts questioning maybe religion's not so unsafe I sent someone to do it one time true story can't make this stuff up he's in the massage massage he's in the uh the U the tattoo parlor and the guy sees him the guy doing the tattoos and he's halfway through and he stops there's a it was in let's leave it that and the guy doing the tattoo turns to the boy he's doing the tattoo on and he sudden he sees his te and he says to the boy if I had a father like yours I probably would have stayed from wow I guess the father heard this the the boys from today walking away from religion is how that Bo became from today cuz his father walked away from it and did the attachment work instead the father also probably became from for real and maybe yeah it's un believe these paradoxical intervention is where we walk a parent through understanding okay deep down like my kids know deep down I want them all to be from they know it they how can you argue I'm a from man what else would I want want so do we have to discuss every day no Lo up there's something more important to me right now is that you're healthy so I'm willing to walk away from to mites now I know deep down that if there's any chance of them healing I have to authentically walk away and put a priority on healthiness not on ter all I have to do that authentically my kid has to know that in their bainer that my diger for them is their health and happiness and what does the amigdala then say ha this from man your father wow huh that's where it gets repaired that's where it gets repaired he doesn't have to choose between tah and safety at all that's where the repair work happens by this is the ultimate Paradox walk away from religion to get it as I once said to one of my kids any God who would make me hate my child is not a God I choose to worship and it has to be authentic authentic you can't sit and say if I do this I'll be through in seven months that's not going to work they ask me um parents frequently ask me how long how long is this going to take so I say to them I tell you precisely do would you want precise they said sure I'll tell you the exact time really I said sure I said it'll take until you stop asking that question when that question's gone that's when the magic might happen that's when they'll heal they can't heal till then cuz they'll schmeck they know that it's not real they'll schmeck they know that you don't the child doesn't come first no they'll know absolutely he's just he's a that's right they schmeck it they schmeck on the disappointment on your face that's a transformational moment yes it is and that requires the absolute humility and B but it's so profound when you get there I Want You To Survive it's like you really not looking to your child for and to do the right thing so that you can feel good about yourself you let go totally it's like it's Journey it's his n he put here and I'm going to do what I can to help him be inspired help it grow it's not about me that's the real death of the ego correct ego has an easing god out correct that's right exactly and that's the moment when you get to that moment where you stop worrying about that question you don't have it anymore it's gone probably something else happens in the process and that's the shame of the neighbors and the relatives and the kahill gone totally gone like either you get it or you don't get it and if you don't God bless you correct I've been very honest publicly for many many years about the TR troubles and challenges we went through we had six of our children children of eight children at some point in the high school years were not sharmar mites I have not denied it I've tried not to take pride in it tried I've tried because I'm so proud of the kids and what they did on their own and how they found a relationship with Hashem that was real authentic that was so so incredible I bring them to KI you know of them to talk and expose themselves you know and then talk about the journey you know this is cloudy Soul's Destiny this is where we are historically the Holocaust is over and a Tas and a purpose I think what's playing out historically is from the Holocaust Holocaust wasn't a blip it had an impact it had an impact act and Trauma on human beings for Gen intergenerational trauma we are now it's like the internet we're clearing up that problem from the Holocaust that's our job and we're doing it through our children you're saying the Holocaust destroyed the self-esteem of the Jewish people it it it traumatized it was the final trauma of all the traumas of all the explosions of all the gas came the Holocaust there was nothing that devastating ever in the history of Jewish people so all the gesim all the expulsions 400 Wikipedia has a list 400 expulsions right of all the times we were tormented destroyed and and and the gas what it did to us came the Holocaust like a CM on all of this and now we're going to be faced with doing here with with strip hair we're stripped be now we got to do the work the pemus work and it's amazing that in this door come the internet you know it can be right right we do Zoom sessions the internet World confronts us with the from M Assad it took us to a place where in the history of the world we were never confronted with this so we have intergenerational traum from the Holocaust mid years so every everything is there begging and begging for authenticity vulnerability connection to B because there's nothing else with it's too big it's too challenging it's too great it's too great and history is there's a is coales to this moment in life where we're here and the abish is begging for authentic relationship with us and us with him so you brilliantly described succinctly how trauma plays out in the brain of this boy or this girl by sitting 10 years and feeling like a failure and loser and I assume when there is sexual abuse with it or besides of it it does the same thing and probably worse right of course of course so could you tell me what happens to this boy or girl they were touched inappropriately they're now 14 or 16 what what what's now going through their brain we have values there are two you know I joke when I say that when I'm gone they'll say I hope they'll say it when I'm gone what are these two the life of children is completely built around these two perhaps more by the girls younger later with the boys you know the ideal in our world is that we teach children what it means it means not just clothing it means AER hum humility a NOA a way of living life including clothing and how we dress and including the relationship between husband and wife intimacy so we live ideally in a bubble we float around the world and this bubble of is how we Mentor what happens we get become or a Kala and brilliantly the kala teacher or the K teacher expand the bubble of to incorporate the of connection through sne and intimacy to bring children in the world and it's fully supported admired and it's Wonder of Life orah the same and kala get married and and a few months later they acknowledge they're pregnant and they have a child coming and there's the greatest Delight in the world Ed mytic when a child in our world is molested or touched inappropriately so they're in a bubble now a bubble from these in of midad sexuality they're in a bubble where they're now aware of that world but quite separate to the bubble ofas these Bubbles and in fact they contradict this poor child is aware of themselves in this new way with zero support zero love on the contrary a knowledge that Lu yuya the world around me parents teachers schools would know what I'm up to and what I'm now aware of they would look at me as a G as a shagets as a piece of Dre they throw me out if they knew what I'm involved in what happened to me because of the exposure that's in this bubble and every time they go to school and hear the completely well-meaning teachers and re extoling the virtues of and that's goes and this is T kadus this child wants to bury themselves alive and projects onto the themselves that if you Reby teacher would know you would throw me out and humiliate me now internally they throw up humiliate themselves and they're gone they're shut down there's no support there's nothing there's no way on Earth there's any positive regard for them from the system now they've been abused and become aware of themselves and are connected to this part of their life they see themselves as r r it's not just the see in the secular world that same touch they might even consider it sexual abuse they might they might not in our world the damage of it is that it separates them completely from one of the two amudim on which their lives are built that are mud crumbles and it's their life you see and are not things we do they're who we are for a child it's theim definition of themas a girl is pun with nonstop so you say even if it happened when they were six or seven till they're 15 we won't see anything because they're not aware of their seual becomes puberty they'll be aware of they see how different they see that they're different that's right and it will play itself out and they brand themselves as rash gurm as evil bad people because they have these Drives By the way this can go further even without molestation it can happen I've seen it happen to people you know I've seen it happen to people just through exposure without anyone ever touching them they got exposed NE to something inappropriate boom they're gone because their lives stand on these two amudim if one crumbles they crumble like I said Tyra and are not things we do like mza like lul like a like a shabas meal they're not Mitzvah they're of our life they what about the following scenario a seven-year-old or four-year-old or or 10-year-old boy who's molested or touched inappropriately or raped and what's happening is he's being used and exploited so psychologically he feels worthless now in Yeshiva he may be doing well he may be a mid he may finish the but emotionally he is a Beyond beond he doesn't have to leave the firm world because the ISA system didn't make him miserable correct but he's completely disassociated from himself so yes and no there are those who shut themselves down completely be they they deny so to speak anything happened they implode not explode they shut it all down many of those pay a bitter bitter price when they get married and have to open it all up naturally and they cannot they shut down emotions gone all sexual feelings gone they get married and they find intimacy abhorent disgusting inappropriate hurtful a many get divorced everyone pays a price in our world what about shutting down not the sexual emotions but emotional emotions that can happen they can't love they can't feel love correct because that could lead to intimacy so they shut that down too I mean this is this is a complex conversation of which the tentacles of impact are enormous enormous you know when I say publicly that roughly 20% of all the kids will have this experience I I think I'm still conservative but I say it because it gives a sense of of what we're dealing with for many years people think you and your colleagues were fabricating these numbers they thought you guys are Miga you're obsessed yourselves and maybe you guys are addicts and you had to project it on the whole society yeah people said strange I was once at a kinis in London and I was speaking on this subject and they told me that one of Her Majesty's government's senior professors in this field would be coming to talk and uh when he comes he's on a t could I step aside you know speaking for a 3 4 Hour drer could I step aside and let him speak I said fine no problem anyway I was an hour in and I started off with Statistics and theum got very upset and there was a heated debate with the ranim there about the numbers and eventually I helped them accept my 20% figure about an hour in this Mr whatever he was was from Her Majesty's government arrived set up his projector and everything and he threw his first slide up the first slide was incidents in the United Kingdom of sexual abuse 20% the entire o burst out laughing the poor guy stood there like you just said 20% they laughing they were rolling how heartless can you be I ran over Tim quickly to explain to what had just happened but it was remarkable it was my figure it was the same 20% you reot him laughing at him but they W so that means if you have 10 children in your family it's likely that two of them well the way I say it is if you have 30 kids in a classroom randomly right six of those wow so teachers and principles must be attuned to this if not these kids have a hopeless future in our system I'm going to accept that as a statement that's sexual abuse but you often talk about emotional neglect which doesn't seem at all sexual abuse we all agree is is is I mean anybody who's educated even a little bit knows that it's is that true it's emotional murder you have SE in it again emotional murder yeah and when they start debating the only time the title gives an emotional comparison from other like that doesn't say ifal here only only gives a description and it's it's not yeah yeah yeah yeah it's fascinating amazing I guess for people who one generation will say it's not such a big deal get over it it's it's a form of but there are all those things that are so subtle that most people wouldn't even identify you one spoke about emotional neglect a child who grew up in a good home there was breakfast lunch dinner La laundry physical safety but there was no attachment correct cu the parents themselves are maybe an act of trauma probably statistically I mean I don't have the money to do it but I would guess the most widespread form of trauma is emotional neglect and you can't even pinpoint that's why father never beat you that's why your mother never told you that you're a curse to humanity they were nice people yeah they did a nice on Friday night too correct they just didn't do the scene the soothed they never did it they never saw you they never noticed who you were they never reflected back to you what is after all really like the says is about extraction a is about installation a is M he installed s into a child is about extraction is you take out from him who he is reflecting back in a way that he can become who is meant to become in this moment you celebrate him you celebrate the potential that lies in this home that's what we're doing with a child we're celebrating the potential that lies in you I have to see you I have to know who you are and reflect it back to you in a positive way for you to fulfill your mission in this world so if I don't see you on the deepest level you feel emotion in so this kid grew up in such a home he was not seeing he was not soothed maybe also compromising safety or security but one of these four 's are missing and uh grows up maybe even actually did well in the system to get some love to get some validation maybe if he has a good head it works or she was a good Basi straw with midis tyus and and maybe that's their way of getting validation yeah how does their trauma develop so over the years they realize I don't know who I am I don't know who I am I have hard times with choices decisions Yeshiva life shim is a nightmare there's no self love I'm not sure who I am I don't know I don't know what I want I don't know how I feel all I know is I feel empty and lonely terribly terribly lonely I know I'm a good person that I do know but I don't understand why I feel so disconnected from everybody else I can walk into a room full of people and I feel terribly alone in fact I feel most alone in a room with people so there's a lot of social anxiety terrible you go to a a is miserable miserable miserable cuz now you have to deal with 300 people's energy and you have no core I don't know how to evaluate my feelings to know if they're right or wrong because no one told me when you're emotionally neglected like a parent a child should say like I go back to the sors I hate my sors so I would smile when my kid said that I said I find that fascinating you hate your SS tell me more and the kid tells you and you begin to get the story why he hat s Mickey Mouse right Mickey Mouse torn you know whatever it was something and you take care of it and what does the child really know someone cared how I feel they didn't care to make sure for their ego I go out with a pair of SES on they cared how I feel so they trust their own feelings so they learn to trust their own feelings so when I come into a and I'm 29 or 39 I trust my feelings I trust my feelings in other words I know who I am and when I feel it some if my parent looks at me when I say I'm sad you know imagine this thing you come home and say you say I'm really angry with my rabi and a parent says you shouldn't feel like that what on Earth does that even mean you shouldn't feel like thaty apparently I have a button somewhere I could press that could stop me feeling that way well you know if you tell me where the button is I'll do it can you help so actually that migdala probably has such a button and they stop feeling they stop feeling completely listen to their father don't trust myself to feel so they press that button not to feel anger anymore when a child says I you know I I hate my feeling that whatever the feeling is we're meant to honor it and show curiosity and interest tell me more sheaa I'd like to understand that feeling better that's all and you know what 99 times out of 100 a child will fix the problem themselves because you showed interest in how they feel that's it when I walk at mitvah there's 150 people half of them know me they come say shalom I am miserable inside I'm like get me out of this place nothing happened there's no danger actually they may even be happy that I'm there but I am miserable I guess cuz I have no core cuz I hate myself cuz I think nobody's judging me like what just happened that's it there's many many reasons I walk in uncomfortable with how I feel I'm walking in feeling nervous will I be accepted will I be embraced will there be people I know will there be a seat for me to sit in will the food be food I can eat will there be me you know people walk in wondering you know will I get a cover you you know something will I be noticed and if I had parents who said to me every time I said I don't feel good you know I'm angry I'm sad said tell me more I'm so interested I learned to trust those feelings mean something and they're valuable feelings that are going on inside me so I'm aware of my feelings and they actually help me guide my life so I say to myself don't be an idiot there's 4,000 here you're not getting a br let it go enjoy the and you feel it and you laugh at yourself and you let it go but if you were never honored by someone being interested in your feelings that feeling gdes away from you and becomes an affirmation of I'm my worthlessness whereas I would simply say Russell grow up there's a lot of people here you're not getting a don't worry about it you know and then you laugh enjoy the sushi enjoy the sushi and you go and enjoy the thing right a person wants to go and take a piece of sushi there's a perfect example it's a beautiful you know SCH he was but you know you know can I take a piece of Sushi I doesn't look good eating in public you know what they think of me but I want a piece of sushi and now I walk away wound up in knots CU I didn't know how to handle that feeling whereas if your feelings were attended to in your child you walk in you say I'm actually hungry I'm not sure if I'm staying till late I'm going to eat a piece of sushi and if someone thinks less of me cuz I had sushi that's their problem but I work that through rather than sit there not eating and mad with myself and life because I couldn't take a piece of sushi because I felt embarrassed not because you know if I don't want it don't eat it and if you feel it's not dignified so don't eat it's not dignified eat privately but if you really want it and you're just all confused about that feeling something's wrong something's wrong so now I start imagining what everyone else is thinking about me I guess absolutely absolutely so this is the type of traumas that play themselves out from emotional neglect sure sure I mean there's thousands there's thousands but the problem but internally I am a miserable person that's the bottom happy lonely sad feel disconnected and most of all have a horrible time making decisions horrible I'm always conf look every decision what do the what does the word mean if I have a decision to make that meant I had a choice philosophically otherwise there's no decision I don't have a decision about breathing cuz I breathe if maybe I was underwater I'd have a decision to make do I get back up or do I enjoy the coral reef like what do I do that's a decision because I have a choice when you have no choice there is no decision so most of life is about decisions and making choices and if you weren't taught to trust yourself if you didn't have a father who when you know this child said shall I go and play you know with my friends or should I do my homework the father say it's a great choice I see your problem that's a hard one your friends just called you out but you know you got the homework to do that's a tough one I feel for you but what should I do well close your eyes a moment and just see if you can just hear a voice telling you what the right thing is fine fine it's that simple but you got to be interested you got to be interested in listening to the feelings respecting the feelings so that your feelings when you grow up become a healthy adult guide you in life your feelings tell you stuff and it's so valuable about what's good and bad and right and wrong but if you didn't have that validation for your feelings if you emotionally neglected so you you become an adult you're a fine person nothing wrong with you but in turn interally you have hard time with decisions you feel very lonely you feel very disconnected to yourself and you have no finger to put it on you go to therapy tell me about your parents they're great people in fact they were considered the best in the community but really what was missing was I I wasn't connected with emotionally emotional neglect because it fails to have a specific event there's no story there's no story it's it's so painful cuz you're left alone you actually think you're crazy cuz everyone else tells you nice things about your parents and then when you become a father or a mother there's no way you can show up for them you don't know how to because it was never done to you you have to learn it you know the beautiful so you have to repress their emotions just like you did your own you could read raising a loving family you know that is an option you know the but how does your nervous system read raising a loving family how do you get your nervous system to heal pause and breathe pause breathe then read so this requires a tremendous amount of of healing yeah of going back to the pain of being unseen in life yes there's a lot of grief work probably too correct correct you have to grieve you have to grieve you have to like I said I like to put it into a historical perspective that the Abisha created a world for us the never existed before with the intergenerational trauma and then the internet and you put the two together the world of our children is so beyond challenging and that I think at least the way I try to share it with my friends and clients is that challenges us to grow and become so much healthier people so that we can help the children saying hasm today cannot be external and rely on any external circumstances alone no we need to completely be internal correct it's really because the external circumstances are chaotic you have to enjoy the moment when you're ding SCH you know in a new Shore somewhere you're the speaker for example and people are watching you and you recognize I'm ding better than I usually do you got to enjoy that moment of awareness and have a good laugh at yourself so you can remind yourself when you go home to do like this it's got to be enjoyable the awareness that's part of vulnerability yeah it's got to be enjoyable when you see these flaws these little things in yourself cuz they're such valuable road maps to your own ticket when you see them so I guess it's really not being afraid of all the different parts in ourselves yeah that's right including the part that's davening nicely only because everyone is looking at me absolutely that's defending me too it's only there to defend trying to defend me trying to make make sure that I remain a celebrity there you go exactly I can just go home and D that way which I've tried you know to train myself to do I guess it's also challenging not to delegitimize myself not to say I'm a fake and a fraud and a phony and my whole daving is a gain because it's just a part of you're saying there parts of us sure this is the beauty of ifs work you know it's so so special you're saying that migdala says make sure you D in a nice so that the respects you there you go and that's what his job is right it's almost like thank you protecting you so let me close my eyes now and and really do this which is all fake that's what you say to the migd would it be okay with you if we did this at home too when no one's looking would that be okay can we do that too because I think this pretty so it's almost like you're saying that real healing happens when we start laughing with our trauma when we start having a good time absolutely when you recognize there's no part of me that's bad they're all there to help me like I said said every problem began with a solution including the parts I developed Within Myself they were all there as a solution to help me stop being afraid of them brace them be curious about them reflect upon them and then see if you really need them anymore is it true that can I say accurately that after 35 years of meeting intimate of meeting thousands and thousands of children parents siblings and having very intimate conversations they don't come to talk to you about we to go on a PES program that's not where they come to you they come to you to talk about difficult things have you ever come out of a meeting or out of a series of therapy and say this is a bad child this is an evil child this is a they used to call this in you never had that experience huh not so that tells us that the Yahara that we're talking about is really a survival mechanism and because of that I become aggressive confrontational self-centered narcissistic promiscuous it's really trauma it's really trauma absolutely it's all it's I see it you know the trauma is there it locks us up and L there's no trauma there you know we we act differently we behave differently I took the Shila to Brown La years and years and years ago say about two boys they both don't get out of bed in the morning for one is struggling with his tiers all night and he s in the morning can't get out of bed and the other one has an anxiety disorder I asked which is which how do I know which is which so she was said man it's huge because if it's if it's mid Ros needs M got to scream at him got yell at him you got to do m but if it's if it's if he's not well he needs and compassion compassion of course so he thought for a few minutes he said we do both I said I said if you do both if you do on some nothing happens but if you do on some you're aik you make him worse make him worse Shea laughed he smiled thought for a few minutes and then he said to me unless you know for sure it's mid Ros you have to assume in this generation you have to assume neish there's something going on go treat it he said if you and your colleagues have all treated it you tried so hard and you can't maybe then you can consider midras and that stood well by me my whole career yeah and I saw his true because har you treat it and this you have a Z kite sitting in front of you who cries and they themselves take on the arbit they themselves recognize I have a job to do on myself you have to say it to anyone don't need you need safety when you have safety my experience in the is I've met with the finest nicest best human beings on Earth just amazing people and when you create safety for them everything comes out and they want to work on themselves you don't have to say a word you don't have to give you don't have to give them any because as they feel safe they cry and they say but I got to fix this it's not nice so this is counterintuitive for so many parents principles teachers rash that basically what you're saying if I'm a principal if I'm a rash and you come into my Yeshiva or my school before looking at me as the responsible one for creating a new generation of with discipline and rules the first obligation is make those kids feel safe yeah when that's the first if you make a child feel safe they open themselves up that's the same we G back there again when they feel safe that your D for them is they should be healthy and body and mind happy capable of self Lov and loving others that's safety when you create but so often people in these positions will say I need them to know Authority I need them to know Authority stop hacking I understand that for many of them you've got a dual job you have a job of a school to run and that's more complicated than just working with an individual but I see no Hatter at all for the angry face like if you're going to say to them sh I'm so sorry you got a detention I feel bad let the detention be the thing that wakes him up to realize I need to work on myself not your angry face CU your angry face can be the angry face that drives him away from God because you're the but what of the detention makes him feel like a bigger loser getting detention for 10 years so that also drives him away from God so go sit down with him and say sha I feel really bad you got this detention I'm going to sit in detention with you together and we're going to talk over how we can help you not get another detention that's like the the father and the tattoo parlor wow so the rashash Shiva who would would have made him feel unsafe is with him you're with you with I'm here to help you I found that you needed detention you came late you did what you did but I'm here with you how can we help you not get another you once shared in one of our sessions that if you were a principal and a boy came late to school or a girl come late toool school they came 3:00 in the afternoon instead of A4 to 9: in the morning you would call them into the office and say wow if you came 3:00 this must be a hard day and you showed up and I'm so proud of you here's a Danish or as a mother wrote you should say here's some healthy food whatever is it's broccoli here's the broccoli and wow we we usually it's $20 $10 KN whatever it is you just created safety in the kid starts crying and you say tell me what's going on sheaa but people wrote an email to you you're destroying schools so everyone is going to come late everyone will come 3:00 in the afternoon that's how I'm going to be the best school in Lakewood in bar Park I never said this publicly till I had tried it out with my friends who are manum of schools and did it and discovered how it worked it wasn't until then I said it publicly I said El far to them CU they asked me for guidance but when we saw it worked that was when I said it publicly it worked so it actually helped them all come earlier it helped the children they feel safer the nature of kids is to be good M their nature is to be good and please us so we are so afraid that these messages will destroy structure they will destroy our schools they will destroy our home you're saying trust your Yiddish guide a little more trust it God did not TR try to give us an evil system that everybody wants to run away from exactly it's a beautiful system and we can teach them and they can learn you're saying when they feel safe they'll want to come to school ABS they want to learn there's no every kid who want to come to school if he feels safe our job is to create that safety so very often in the name of trying to be Educators we are actually distancing them that could happen from the goal that could definitely happen because we are using yish guide or any other disciplinary method to create a lack of safety which actually throws them away right so in our lack of real awareness in the name of yish we're doing everything again not not maliciously maliciously not malicious actually with with with good intentions with great intentions but not realizing that in this generation again I don't want to speak on behalf of Freer but this generation the primary need of a child is respect and safety respecting the child yes they feel respect child feel safe are the primary needs of all children in this generation so that their brain can develay online otherwise it's offline they're in Survival Mode the brain's offline and they can't learn they can't do anything the brain is just saying I need to survive get out of here the brain's saying get out of here either dissociate or physically don't come to school or check out check out that's the dissociation that's right our job is to provide a feeling that child feels respected and safe so we used to look at children I guess more without seeing what's inside of them as long as you're in class you showed up 9:00 you don't put your head down and you point it means I'm a success story correct and you're saying this may be a catastrophe CU this kid May physically be there but they yes and in this world the world we're living in now where the Ghetto Walls are certainly down Gone Gone Gone Gone the premise of my book was about the fact that the Ghetto Walls are down they're down we can't shelter alone anymore so the answer to all of the isues is connection that we have connection with the child because if we allow disconnection then trust me there's a world out there that they will use to fill their minds and their hearts while they're disconnected from our world they'll go to the secular world of course so the only real option for us is both the shme of filters and all the rest of the good things that we provide and the walls and the discipline and the rules and the structure and we must that's all the outside the inside is connection that kids feel connected and the way you connect is by making them feel respected and making them feel safe then they open up and they tell you everything because they can trust you and then you can help them they say come to you and say Reby I have a problem I found one Appliance in my house where I can it was really just a a thing for the alarm system you know with pictures the cameras outside but I found I can get on to the internet through it help me I don't want tell my father be so angry with me but I'm so struggling yes a child will tell you that when you make him for respect for telling you and safe to tell you in all your years of practice can you think of a piece of advice you gave it was counterintuitive people thought you were crazy maybe you even thought you were crazy but somehow it worked it worked the first one I ever did and I want to REM Mark him if I say this publicly you know don't try this at home you know this is a very thoughtful specific not generic not that anyone else should ever do this without consulting with your own professional a unique circumstance I had a 15-year-old boy was off fry gone clearly an abused victim I knew it and he'd taken to smoking marijuana and a few kids in his community had died from laced marijuana they died the OD and died on laced marijuana as and this father came to me panicking he was his he was a friend with one of these kids who died got his marijuana in the same place he was terrified and he couldn't stop he had no relationship the kid HED up all night long you know the usual story I suggested the father to go to his son and tell his son I'm going to buy your marijuana I'm going to get you good quality marijuana that won't kill you I'm terrified you could die but we're going to do it on one tonight that once a week MTI shabas we're going to pull the lights off in your room and you're going to smoke this marijuana I gave you I told make sure the windows are open so you don't get hot booxed and I'm going to sit in the room with you and listen in the dark and I'd like to understand your hurt your pain can we do that and I'll pay for your marijuana and the kid said yes and they did it for about a year or two he said sat there listening M I was crying actually he told me he sat there listening and crying to his son's pain that son today is married from ER and has told me many times when I bump into him you know you saved my life it was the connection and there was no other way I could connect I tried everything nothing worked so counterintuitive to tell a father to go and buy marijuana you bet that's crazy that's why I said J please don't take this story but without the connection this boy would never heal he would never heal and I knew the connection is what we were after the hole in the heart and he gave up the marijuana so you can take away all the marijuana but if you don't heal that connection just go he'll find somebody else heroin he'll go to cocaine yes and a lot of people don't understand that they focus on the marijuana I'm giving my kid marijuana I'm like crazy crazy which of course it is crazy but you're saying you're dealing with a kid who's emotionally he was he was already abused already he emotionally dead and it actually brought the connection the marijuana brought the connection he I actually told the kid I remember the story now I asked his rush to take this story to his father he said you're crazy Russell you're crazy my father will never be masking I said that's not that's not your problem that's my problem I'm asking you Rus I ask the kid Rus can I go to your father because we were all scared cuz this some mother kids died of laced marijuana so this is a case where breaks the says and Rashi says it was to save the Jew there would be no Jews left yeah we can have complete but there's no Jews to give it to says that's how I would summarize what you're teaching and that's how the whole Tera ends rash says again the end say again to anyone watching you can't take any of these stories course Russell said we have to we should all be doing marijuana instead of the Kish we're going to do marijuana no Cheng I just hope everyone understands course I've never had to do it again right but I would you understand in a thoughtful way of course you know it can change your life andless sh it was about connection it wasn't about marijuana it was about facilitating connection which worked beautifully so when a father or a mother asks you my daughter wants a smartphone she has it she's on it all night she watches horrible things I want to take it away if I take it away I did she curses me hates me and she gets herself one anyway another one that she doesn't tell me but she for sure does yeah let's assume she does and she hates me I said at least let me put filters so you can only go to a Jewish website no no no no so now I have a choice am I giving her a device that is destroying her brain her Nish and her life just so I could be a or not and I'm a good mom yeah so this question I need to let let's isolate let's make a so that we can not have to deal with other problems this is the only child in the house that's the first day it was I want to be able to answer the question I can for the child for this child it's the only one in the house the parents who tried and have a terrible relationship with the child the child isolates locks in their room goes out at night does whatever they want don't dress s who knows what they're doing with boys and everything else and they're watching Terrible Things pornography on this this Smartphone but there's nothing the parents can do to stop it nothing they've tried everything imaginable I've gone through it with them I've listened to them for hours they've tried everything from nice to tough to kind everything so I'm going to say something pornography is terrible pornography is a disaster pornography conditions people young people especially to believe that this is what intimacy looks like it creates neural Pathways forget about the kadu less obvious but it creates neural Pathways that make a person believe this is where satisfaction is and in a real home when you get married this doesn't happen this stuff doesn't happen which leaves the brain craving something that will they will never get a feeling they're missing for the rest of them lives aside from the kadua it is in Psychology it's a dis disaster so we don't have to say how bad it is many children unfortunately have died ODed or committed suicide from the destroyed relationship with their parents no kid ever suicide or o deed because they watch pornography losing relationship with your parents is worse so if everything else has failed wow and you tried everything you could imagine and everything in the world which you should because pornography is Shrek and it's destructive you've tried everything in the world and it failed and trying more will destroy your relationship with your kid give him the smartphone wow cuz that's this is neish that's not wow so that's that's so vital in our times to understand if my enforcement of and is coming at the expense of connection destroys your relationship I don't mean tonight and tomorrow morning they love you I mean permanently right then ultimately you're making them from for 10 minutes but you're losing the child absolutely you're losing the it's just a fantasy so you're going to lose everything you're going to lose your child and your TI and when you give it to them and say shaa this is terrible I want to tell you why I want to tell you why I don't want to give it to you but I'm giving it to you here hold it hold it in your hand here you can hold my smartphone you got it and you give them the smartphone you got it it's yours in a moment you're going to turn it on it's yours and it's unfiltered they look at you as if you're crazy you probably look at me as I'm crazy but I'm telling you again I'm not taking it away from you all I want to do is tell you why I think this thing is so dangerous to you do you you know they listen to you then wow and 99 times out of a 100 will come back to you and say I need a filter I need a filter I can't do this they come back to you cuz you created safety cuz you created safety and connection you have to put it in the hand first otherwise they're still fighting you they don't hear you it's yours it's yours how can we talk about it before you turn it on it's all about happy and healthy as a prerequisite for religion where we started today and that's my feeling overall is the primary job we have the Dual job we have is creating a healthy human being and du job if there's a conflict don't compromise being a healthy person I guess so many of us grew up without safety that we don't we learn to cope without it right so we we tell ourselves it's not important we don't even know that it's important correct and now we're watching the Next Generation generation getting hurt from that and I guess they're showing us that it's important yep and all this is this generation why they to made this happened now and not previously I have no clue but this is what we're dealing with this is the world we have and this is how we can make the maximum maximum potential developing out of our well maybe if the G is coming in our avidus hem needs to permeate us in our totality correct this is the only way correct it's internal it's deep it's p like you said before p is not that's right and it has to be if the whole world is going to be healed with the presence of Hashem how can that happen without that internal relationship correct it's not anymore just about Behavior Behavior Behavior I I look at this as incredibly historical times for Us Mid is finally being confronted in our face after all the generations saying our sexual is going to have to be worked out has to be to away from it it's right there front and center in the world in a way it never was before and Holocaust trauma and other traumas that happening to us is precisely because of trying to rebuild the system causing more trauma we have but also maybe I'm just thinking you know we talk about cholesterol and AOS and the healing of cherol when we go to this level of conversation the differentiations between communities pretty much deserve correct vulnerability and authenticity everyone needs everybody becomes one we all cry goes away so the great differentiations between communities can only exist when we're on the peripheral you know what when we're hiding we don't feel safe I don't feel safe with that Community or that Community these Jews make me feel you trigger me yeah you're not part of my color team that's right but when we let that go we let go of some of those barriers we start embra like I understand that someone expresses himself with you know in the and he's square and he's sad and that's beautiful he said because to step over the next step and say but don't forget I'm right and you guys are wrong that's crazy that's completely crazy what I can say is this works for me and it brings me close to Hashem and that works for you and brings you close to Hashem and that works for him and brings him close to Hashem so let's all applaud each other and praise and be grateful that satma exists and square exists and the barage and the lfish and let's be glad we all you know I'll leave you with this thought because we got to I think we got a wrap so had a vot I once said to and uh when we had our he asked me to remind him he said to me the time sh this is the best for you ever told me we were discussing how to survive in today's world how's a you survive so I told him like this I said in your brain you need to be aish Lon got to Knack you got to make a you got to see right wrong and true and false you know understand the that's in your brain in your heart you got to be halfish and halfi because the you know they Li in kadus and the have that's in your heart inside you need to be a little bit because the they care about every Jew on the face of this Earth I don't know anyone else who does a little bit bre because touches things that no one else touches and a little bit cuz has to sing he has to sing I said said take all that and put it in a yakha body so we can respect people's time so when they say 7:30 you show up 7:30 not 9:00 and if you have all those you can probably survive a year in this world M when I said it to him got up came around gave me a kiss he said sh it's the best V you ever said ah wow okay I guess that sums you up gross in England yeah that's true passport you have the English tradition exactly of showing up on time I believe that's correct you write in your book that you finished the cycle of d by showing up on time ex you got to learn the BL before the and show up the wedding perfect wow we have no words to thank you for your wisdom for your authenticity and for your vulnerability thank you for making us better people better parents better Educators better Jews thank you I want everybody to notice that I asked shim some questions that were personal and uh you weren't triggered you paused you breathed yeah just you didn't respond from a defensive Place gave me why should I be triggered that's what hasem gave me we can all learn from that and if you haven't yet read rip shim's new book raising a loving family it's beautiful it's authentic it's vulnerable and it's helpful and kesher Nafi is a miracle organization we all know that very much so and uh we have been at many of them shim goes to every one of them because he's its founder I've had the privilege of been at many of them and to be able to see hundreds and hundreds of parents amazing from all demographics and it's probably one of the most honest uh places you'll be at in terms of the vulnerability it's like open heart surgery for the weekend and there's no judgment you know yeah you have and you have hats and you have different types of yamas and different types of and everybody comes together and I think what unite when we transcend the ego correct there is automatically act us right absolutely cuz the absolutely the is one those beautiful beautiful shabas thank you my pleasure thank you thank you thank you my this class is brought to you by the yeshiva.net please help us continue the classes make even a small contribution at ww.the usa.net donate