Headlines: Thank You Hashem For Emesdikeh Yidden - What Is the Correct Path In Avodas Hashem?

We're joined now by my dear friend of Danielle Gladstein, the R of Kilaser Morai in Cedarhurst, New York. A prolific author, sorum in Hebrew, books in English, somebody who's traveled the world with groups inspiring them. Glassian, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. Nice to speak to you again. >> So, you know, we're talking about what what these exchange of AI videos uh launched a conversation. It's not about the videos uh per se or the people who put this together because we don't even know who they are. Should hashkafa come or hashkuffic debate is it healthy for it to happen through AI videos that go viral? >> Look, I think uh there's a positive side here and there's a negative side here. The positive side is back in the day, 200 years ago, 100 years ago, the debate was always about values, about idealism, about movements, and in our times it's become more of a hedonistic society. So the conversation has shifted to food and trips and pleasure. So I think it's a healthy sign when the debate turns to value and ideals and uh focus. So I think there's something healthy about that. I think it shows uh a certain uh correct focus in our society. Uh but I will say that I do not think that messaging and hashkafa should be the realm of singers or entertainers. Forgive the expression. I think sometimes I'll give you an analogy. You know sometimes you have a yeshiva dinner and they honor a gave and everybody knows why the person is being honored. This is not you know rocket science. This is not top secret and they need to just get up and take their award. People are not interested in deter at that time. Everyone's rolling their eyes if the awardee uses that opportunity to get up and pontificate and give over his hashkafa because everybody realizes that this person is not being honored because of their viewpoints or because they are the disseminators of Tyra hashkafa. They're being honored because they support the institution. And the smart the smart awardee understands that and recognizes that. and the people in the crowd know that if that person starts uh espousing hashkafa people just roll their eyes. So I think it's important to teach our children that when messaging is uh being given over by entertainers or singers that's the appropriate time to roll your eyes and and recognize that this is not their area of expertise. But with all that being said and I think in maybe in the spirit of we're going to take some of this messaging seriously. I think that's the uh objective of this conversation. >> And you could add to it, I mean, how seriously do you take things that are anonymous? When a person doesn't have the courage to put their name behind what they're saying, you don't even know who they are, where they're coming from. So you could say, why is that necessary? Just judge what's being said on its merit. But I think that context is important. And also just whether we should notice it or pay attention to it. Should you watch it or even look at it, read it, listen to it if you don't even know who or where it's coming from, and therefore what authority it has. as as you're saying the whole framing of it the conversation began with who's an MSID who's a real Jew who are real yidden is there such a thing as a real yid and msyid and do we have criteria is there a shak that tells you here is what's necessary to be qualify as an msid yeah so actually we do have criteria of an misid if your mother is Jewish you're an msayid also another option is if you convert to Judaism those are the two ways to be an msiid so the notion that the way a person serves serves Hashem will determine if you're a true Jew. That's inaccurate. It may determine whether your Judaism is MS, but not whether you yourself are defined as a true Jew. You know, that's uh Israel. Look, there are certain uh sins that a person could commit where they may lose a certain status. But in general, a person's path of will not determine whether he's an emsid. So, I personally don't like the phrase real yid and there's no such thing as a real y. There's real Yiddish kite. And I think, you know, if we were to study and analyze some of the messaging of the songs that go back and forth, some of the general points may be good, but there are certain inaccuracies that maybe it's worthwhile to point out. What are some Do you have an example? [laughter] >> Yeah, sure. Okay. Let's go back to the history a little bit because in a certain way this is reawakening the the ancient battles of Tamid Hagra andos. I think it's important to just to be aware what isos people have their own definitions of somehow people like to think thatus is a way to hone in on the more enjoyable parts of Judaism the parts that are maybe easier to connect with. But it's interesting the cloisenberba in uh in a mimer that he gave he he focused on the fact that the balant himself only experienced his first divine revelation while he was learning the that's the whole movement of came from the bump of learning and and kenber said was a response and this may come as surprising but was a response to the fact that they were midim traveling from city to city and they were giving Muser and Klesenberg Reb says among them were rashim who were rebuking about things that were not important until the great light of Israel came down to the world in the bump and he taught without knowing you can't have a relationship with Hashem. Okay, this is the cloenber's frame of whatus is. I don't know today if people would even have known that or are aware of that or you know everybody would consider the rebel one of the fathers of in his opening line of proper haga for a Jew the rebel says the first step of a hashem is the rashi places with full concentration that's the first step of a hashem now if I wouldn't have said who said this somebody might have thought you know that's the or That's no no that's the that's what says in his in the same list of he says stay away from any intoxicating beverage this is like the stay away from so where exactly does this come from this is part of this is not part of has nothing to do with so before we even begin the conversation and what we're debating and what the movements are it's important to know that uh the cloenber himself says was that in terms of what the vagrine believed and what Bashem and the Tam Bashm believed they were extremely close said the attitude of the early was that if somebody learns Gamarra and Rashi and they don't learn Tyus that was that was considered a disaster in >> so an embassy that has to aspire to be a should should be somebody who who learns regularly um but are there also not a world of people who are even potentially became bashas or who learn significantly their co eat them regularly but their yiddish cat is dry it's empty it's not dynamic it's not alive it could be they're going through the motion and they maybe in their life never had one real conversation with their never once felt his hug his embrace they don't know with confidence that he loves them they're going through a motion that says so it's a checklist they did it a good boy they they've done what they're supposed to is is are there a challenge in the other direction too >> absolutely there's a challenge in the other direction but just because somebody did have that heartto-he heart with rebanam and thinks that he feels his presence. He also doesn't know any more clear that loves him. Did Hashem come to this person in a prophetic vision and tell them I love you? You know the the degree of connectivity is not measured by how connected a person feels they are. So for example, if I were to tell you, I need you to connect to a certain website, you're going to have to put in the precise digits and numbers and letters. And if you're off by one, you will not connect. No matter how much you want to connect, no matter how much you would like to, it has to be done a certain way. And if you do it, you are connected whether you feel it or not. So God gave us a system of how to connect to him. They're precise ways of how to do it. And the the barometer of whether we're connected or not is not measured by how we feel about it. So it's true if somebody >> But are we conflating are we conflating and meaning certainly has to be the cornerstone the foundation non-negotiable even though all of us are works in progress and doing our best but at least fundamentally in principle we have to be committed to be you have to keep the that's the foundation it's a non-negotiable but what what you described even coming from those about needing to know and that level of being shak and learning and the and being the basis How many people listening to you, to us right now say, "That's not me. That can never be me. I I can't and don't have what it takes to do that. I guess I can't be an MSE yet. I guess there's no room for me in that picture or vision of Yiddishkai." And and isn't there not alternative because they're not conflicting? It's just a question of where the emphasis is. Doesn't that scare off or doesn't that marginalize or eliminate a segment or a demographic who say, "I don't have those kos. I don't have that capacity." >> Okay, good point. Let's talk about Stillin for a moment. everybody uh every male Jew would have to put on so whether you feel like it or not that's not negotiable. So there's there is a primary mitzvah that mitzvah is everybody agrees about that. Now, how much time should you spend? How much of your day should be allotted? But there is no question that in some significant way, every male Jew has to try his best to connect to the tree of life and immerse themsel whether it's 5 minutes a day, 10 minutes a day, or most of the day to tamyra. That doesn't mean the recipe is exactly the same for everyone. People could choose what part of Torah they want to learn. They could choose the style, how they learn. they could choose the topics that interest them. there is a lot of um personal there's a lot of room left for personal preference but nevertheless a person can't say well you know I really connect with ding or I really connect with therefore I'm going to make that the main my main avenue of connecting that amount of personal choice has not been given to us not because hashem is not doesn't recognize our inclination but because there are certain realities of what does bring us closest to Hashem. So in other words, there's a lot of flexibility, there's a lot of independent choice, but it's it would have to be similar. It could be uh considered similar to a diet. Every diet has to have protein. Every diet has to have carbs. Every diet has to have a balanced diet has certain uh components to it. Everybody is going to choose a particular diet that works for them. But if a person just has one and doesn't have the other, then they're imbalanced. Then it's not a healthy version. So there is a lot of room left for personal decision. Nevertheless, there are certain fundamental aspects of hashem that are not up to our personal choice because there are certain realities of creation and life in general. >> So how does how does aid know how does somebody know if what's speaking to them? They want they want to sing they want to be with by by transforming the into what's the metric or measure? How do they know if it's authentic and genuine? How do they know if it's superficial and manufactured and fake? What what does a person need to know? In addition, let's assume they're learning. They're that's the basics. That's the that's the baseline. You got to follow, but on top of that, they're drawn to certain things. Are those things ultimately legit or are they not? So, let's say a person says, "Okay, I already run uh an hour today. Now I'm drawn to Farbrang. So that has to be measured up according to the values of Babi and what exactly is drawing you to this Farbrang? You enjoy you enjoy the camaraderie. Okay, camaraderie is a healthy human uh dynamic. You're allowed to engage in that. You're drawn to singing. You could make the case that there's a certain human need to sing. You're saying singing on chabas honors the shabas. But ultimately you have to make an honest assessment because if you believe that God gave the Torah to the Jewish people on Sinai and he gave us mitzvah and the most valuable mitzvah is tamatra. So now you're going to now you have to make an assessment. Is it really worthwhile to spend 2 hours for at the cost of losing two hours of tamatra? Or maybe you know what >> but isn't that for a person who could do two more hours? What if somebody says I can't and I wouldn't and I don't have the capacity for it. >> Okay. Could you could you learn for an hour of that amount of time? Focus on how valuable it is. Realize that this is the ultimate way to connect to Hashem. Realize the amount of scar that's involved. And um if you if you develop the skills in learning, you'll enjoy it very much. It will elevate you. It will give you satisfaction. Could you learn an hour of that amount of time? After rethinking it, you may you may realize, you know what, I might be able to learn for an extra 20 minutes or an extra half hour. I don't need the full 2 hours. And then ultimately that may lead you to continue to reassess. So the expectation, Hashem uh asks of a person what they're able to do. And all human needs are taken into account. But a person is always required to constantly rely what's what's the best way to uh to spend one's life and to spend one one's time. It's let's let's look at it in a business sense. Let's say a person had a job and by doing X or by doing Y, he would be making $100 an hour, $200 an hour, $300 an hour, $1,000 an hour, but he doesn't really feel like it. He would rather sit back and drink a beer. So, is it reasonable for him to say, you know, I don't really want to put the work in. I would rather take it easy and enjoy myself. Is he allowed to do that? Pal, it's a free country, but it's not a smart choice. So why would the world of RNA be any different, >> right? >> Are you allowed to >> just hang around Friday night and sing and drink? Is there some value to that? Yeah. Is it a good decision? Well, well, put in that perspective, maybe it's not. >> So I would I would ask I would ask the RV this way. I would ask you this way. Clearly there's a balance and clearly there's an expectation and clearly Tom can give Kulum. Of course, and I agree with you. I'm trying to sort of uh challenge both sides of this and and see where we're at. What what would you say though that when we hold the standard so high that everything a person is doing they say I could and should be learning instead and the person though is not capable and now they're racked with guilt with shame now they feel inauthentic now they feel a failure in the Hashem because they don't have that capacity they don't measure up and and they can't be learning or they can't be learning at that high level and now they're just so guilty of whatever else they're doing even if there's a element or component of serving Hashem in it so aren't we worried about creating also a performative Skype where people look at an expectation or demand of them. They're going through the motions. They're in a system that's demanding they learn learn certain hours, look a certain way. They're they're performing. They're wearing a costume. They're on the form of the Yiddish, but they're not being authentic to themselves and they're not authentically in a relationship with their shalom and everything they're doing is either out of guilt or shame or they're not doing it anymore because they can no longer live with that guilt and shame. Wouldn't it also be helpful to give an outlet and encouragement and take away judgment and allow the person who says I'm doing what I think is the best I can I could always push a little bit more but I want to also be in the other time not made to feel guilt or shame that that's also a healthy expression of Hashem too. >> Yeah. And there's always a danger that expectation could bring to guilt. Guilt is not uh there there's no uh expectation of guilt or desire of guilt. And guilt is different in karat and it's a deterrent in a sashe. And by the way, nothing we said is connected in any way with how a person is supposed to look or dress. You know, the the requirements of a sashem are specifically we were discussing. We're not discussing uh the costume a person wears, which is not relevant. And you know, it's interesting. One of the songs, one of the popular songs was uh a quote from from that a small act that we do in our generation is the equivalent of the greatest mitzvah of the earlier generations, right? The shuckle shuckle song. And as if that ideal or that value has something to do with first of all that ideal was popularized by none other than Rabbit. He was the first one who brought that idea to uh to the forefront. He writes this in Tasha and he himself writes that if a yeshiva student studies the words of a rishine and tries to understand the words of the rishine and he may not even understand these words at all in the eyes of Shmayim he may be on a much higher pedestal even than the reshine himself and says we don't like to talk about this too much we don't want to overinflate our own value but if you if you find this surprising I didn't invent this look in the Arizal himself told this to him and he quotes it from Vital. So this messaging is from the yeshiva world. This messaging is from you know the amra as they call it but it became popularized in uh in a song. So of course there's a danger and like you say everything is a balance. You don't want to water down the standard though. So the alternative is to start recognizing that other forms of of course we don't expect a young student to be engrossed 24 hours a day or 12 hours a day or above and beyond what they're capable of but that doesn't mean we want to water down the standard. So there has to be a balance of recognizing what the true standard is and at the same time recognizing where a person is holding in life. And there are many healthy outlets and they they don't have to be always specifically connected to hashem in a certain sense. Wouldn't it be healthier if somebody said, you know, I can't learn right now. I'm going to go jogging. So is it healthier to sit around and eat chickpeas and drink alcohol and con convince yourself somehow I'm sanctifying the mundane? Is that is that healthier? Maybe it's healthier to go out and take a jog and recognize this is not specifically but I need to clear my mind to be able to apply myself when I'm ready to uh to be fully authentic uh avenues of hashem. So it's a balance both ways but I don't think the answer would be to water down what the what the standard is. Again, we're not we're not this is not to say that um I I will say on both sides, you know, there I think there was a refrain. This is the only way Hashem wants to be close to you. I think that's a little bit uh or more than a little bit exaggerated. Every mitzvah is a way of connecting whether it's ding, whether it's whether it's whether it's whether it's not not wearing sh these are all ways of coming close to Hashem. What what they're mixing up is that specifically is needed to combat the yahara and other forms of hashem do not necessarily com combat the yahara. So there was some conflation over there but to say that it's the only way hashem wants to be close to you that's a bit that's a bit uh harsh. I think that's a great glad the question your emphasis on balance needing elements and components of all finding the balance which was missing in this conversation and in those videos which intentionally lack balance because they're coming sort of to attack and criticize not to lift up and build. So that's a great place to leave it. Ray Glassian, thank you so much for your time, your insight and your perspective. >> Thanks for having me.