Good Vibes Eps 5: Work, Boundaries, and Balance: Earning Parnassa Without Losing Yourself

[music] Welcome to Good Vibes, [music] the podcast that brings the timeless beauty of Asia Kyle into the rhythm of real life. Each week, we unpack one puzzle, not as a shear, [music] but as a spark for honest conversations, refreshing insights, and a little to light you [music] can carry with you. Because meeting shouldn't feel heavy. And connection doesn't have to wait for quiet. This is good vibes [music] for the Jewish woman who's doing a lot and still reaching deeper. Hello everyone and welcome back to the good vibes podcast. Today we're going to discuss pake and a valuable lesson we learn applicable to our lives on a daily basis almost a constant basis I would say. Okay. Okay. So states, which translates loosely to, she is like a merchant ship or fleet, and she brings her bread from afar. So when I first read this, I was like, "Wow, this is really interesting. It's comparing an issue to what are we actually talking about here? What is this ship reference and what is the food reference? So the Matsura Stavidid brings down that just like the ships of merchants that go a long distance like go the long haul so too she goes the distance and gets food gets bread which is equivalent to parnasa even though really it's her husband's job. Okay so the mutin is saying that she goes the long distance she goes the long hall and she makes a parasa for her family even though it is her husband's aas. So when I first read this, I could not get over how applicable it was to our lives today in 2025. I feel like this puk and this masid shows us at its source that an askyle works and an askyle makes a parnasa for her family. We are talking about the pukum defining what an askyle is. And in this puzz we're saying that part of an Asia Kyle's role is to work and even though the Mod states clearly that it's her husband's job, it's her husband's role and that the woman is either taking over or adding into that role to help out the family and to help with her with a parasa of her home. So it's clear from this puzz and from this matsuravid that working is part of a as kyle's role. So of course in today's day and age many women do work and that's why I feel like this pock is speaking directly to us. I want to throw in a disclaimer that we are not here to puskin or to encourage or to discourage anyone when it comes to working. Every person has their own decision and their own life and their own situation, their own work situation, their own financial situation, their own family situation. So we are not pasconing or directing anyone to start working or to stop working. This is just a conversation and food for thought and each person has their own circumstances and life scenarios and we encourage everyone to get guidance for your specific scenario. So that being said, in today's day and age, it's just fact that the way that we have our lives set up plus just some extra fun inflation, most wives, most families, even if the husband, whether the husband is working or he's learning, the wife is very often working as well. And I feel like often when we think about a wife and a mother working, we think about it as as a betty evid as not ideal as okay because of parasa this is what we need to do but not as it being part of our tkid and of course as we've seen up until now and we're going to continue seeing an isasle's role is so vast and is has so many different parts to it and we've seen up until now in we're going continue seeing that a wife's main tapid, an Asia Kyle's main tapid is being a wife and being with our families and building our home. But that being said, even though that is our main tapid, there are other things that fall into this umbrella. And it seems like this work piece, this parnasa piece is part of that and part of that role as well. So now I want to ask and we're going to discuss kind of where does this work fit in? What where does this work fit into Anishas Kyle's life? We see that Anishas Kyle worked. This is what we're seeing in the Sukim from the source. She did it even though it wasn't really her responsibility. It was her husband's burden and either again she's taking it over for him or she is helping with that burden. It seems as though she's going out of her way to make a parnasa even though it is not directly her burden and her aayas. And this again is part of what an asyle is. It is part of the rules, the categories that fall under the umbrella of what an isaskile is. So we're saying that the ideal image of an isask has making a parnasa for her family within that. Now we're going to discuss how that falls in. How does it play out? How does it exactly work that making a parnasa and working for your family fall into being an asshy? Because again, I think that in today's day and age, we often think that it's a contradiction. And even if it's not a contradiction, it's still very hard to understand how to make it work. So thankfully, I have Mrs. Fagy Herman on with me today to discuss the Asia Kyle's role in the workplace to discuss our role when it comes to making a parnasa, how to create this part of our role in a successful way. how to make a parnasa how to work and bring it into our role as an asshy fee works as a product owner. She's the founder and CEO of project careers. She's helped over 200 plus women propel their career forward by giving them the confidence and skills to navigate the workforce as from Jewish women. welcome. Thanks for being here today. >> Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited. I'm excited to get into this question to discuss it and hopefully you know like we said we're not here to puskin but actually really just give people the tools and the skills to be able to navigate that question. Amazing. Okay. Thank you. So maybe we can just start off by you sharing your thoughts on this topic of I guess just what do you think what are your thoughts about when it comes to an Asia Kyle actually that working is part of our role and working is not something that is looked down upon. it it's part of it. I guess it's kind of the way that I'm trying to look at it is the same way that keeping our house in order is our role. So apparently working and making a parnasa is also part of our role even though we're taking it from our husbands. What do you think about that? What do you where do you stand on the subject? Maybe just share your thoughts. So I think it's really important to have clarity and it's really interesting because you will actually be a better employee taking this in mind what we're about to discuss and it's very important is that we yes we can work and sometimes we should work but that has to be an internal decision and recognizing that as the habas that is where you are first and foremost. Now some people a lot of people become better wives and mothers because they are working because whether or not it means the financial strain is too heavy and therefore they feel like they need to take on this burden and that will allow for them to be a better mother and wife whether it's because they get sebook from work and they need to also use their skills and their talents outside of the home but again it's always coming back and recognizing I am here and I am doing what I am doing so that I am building my home in the best way. The second that work becomes the most important thing and you forget your as highle role in that then you know that you made a wrong turn somewhere along the line. So that's the foundation and that needs to be clarified right away. >> Wow. Fakey. Okay. If I understand correctly I think that you're bringing two points to light. I think that point number one you're saying that even though this is part of our role I would almost categorize it as like a subcategory of our role our main role like we said before is being a carbias and putting our focus on our home and our family and our husband first and foremost and our children of course ma sham our children and this is part of that bigger role but when we put a focus on work almost equivalent for sure if it's more than our home. But even if it's equivalent, I think it's a great way to indicate that maybe we need to take a step back and reassess. And I think the second point that you were saying, which I think is very enlightening to people is that often when a wife and a mother works, she can end up being a better wife and a mother because she's able to express herself, extend herself, utilize herself in other ways that might be recharging her to be a better wife and be a better mother. Do you ever feel like it's the opposite though that some people who work >> there are people and we're going to talk about that there are for sure people that start you know their career takes the center stage they are not present with their kids they are not present with their husband they dread you know the evening and the afternoon they are only on a high when they enter work and we're going to talk about how detrimental that is actually in your career and that's a big thing that we focus on in project careers and in the actual program that helps people build soft skills there are for sure many people and that's a a big loss for all of Collie Straw honestly and for that individual when they start putting work as the most important thing they will totally end up getting birds out and both at work and at the home >> that's so interesting even when I asked that question before I was honestly in my mind I was thinking like if somebody if a wife doesn't like her job and doesn't like her work so that dread the whole day or Sure. The thing the says get something that you could do that you enjoy. Now, I don't think that everyone's able to get their ideal work. I mean, maybe reach out to a career coach and take that test. Sometimes your life situation doesn't allow for you to do your ultimate, but there is ways that you can express yourself in your work. And again, if you're in a toxic environment, and we'll get to that in a second, then yeah, you do want to leave that area. If you see that you're bringing work home with you and it's really impacting your self-esteem and your the way that you interact with people and you get burnt out coming to work meaning on both ends if you are super career woman or you feel like you're being pushed down both instances it mean that you are putting work on a pedestal that means that work is becoming more important than what you're doing at home and that is the type of person that I would not recommend to go out and work in that situation like in that attitude with that mindset. So what's the ideal? >> The ideal is this is my, you know, opinion and obviously after speaking to mentors and men, this is what my understanding is. So take it with a grain of salt. But I do see the results play out very clearly in those women's lives that I've helped in the past. The ideal is that you enjoy what you're doing. You build yourself as a person at work. You know, work presents you with certain situations that allow for you to build yourself up in your midos, in your confidence, in your fear, in your amuna. Work is a whole environment that just allows for growth. And that is a great opportunity for any woman and any person to put themselves into. >> When you first said growth in work, I was like, "Oh, like climbing the the ladder in your career and moneywise." and you're coming from a totally different refreshing perspective of just the same way that when you go to high school and when you go to seminary and when you go to wherever else it's almost like a playing field where Hashem can test you in a way that you can like work on yourself and grow and get to the better better that I am hopefully you're saying that work can be that environment as well which is so interesting because I don't think that we look at it like that I think that most people just look at it like this is where I go to make a parnasa for my family whether I like it or Not maybe if I like it so then it's fun. But it's such a for me that you just said that I'm totally thinking about wow this is like my high school of working on myself in my environment. That's a great that's so interesting. That is why this is the ideal because the second that it becomes about climbing up that corporate ladder or getting recognition, feeling accomplished, which don't get me wrong, you accomplish a lot at work and we discuss that and we want you know to promote that people understand what value they contribute to a company but you will never have the confidence to let's say ask for a raise and to move up the corporate ladder if that becomes your whole focus because then work becomes a very scary place. >> Wow. Okay. So, we're saying that point number one is the environment. Correct me if I'm wrong, Vagy. That the environment is one that you can see yourself growing in and excelling in in your midos, in your growth, etc. It doesn't mean though, by the way, that it's a spiritual place. It doesn't mean that now you don't go into corporate and now you don't work with, you know, certain people. That's not what it is. Hashem brought you to that situation, to that work environment. >> You are going to be tested. You are going to have to get over fear of judgment. You are going to have to get over your ego. >> I would add in communication. Communication. >> Exactly. I mean, that's obviously huge on what we discussed in project careers. You're going to have to learn how to become a better communicator. And these are all tools that you bring back home with you and that's what you want to be bringing back home with you. Wow. >> And then yes, there's also obviously when you come into the workforce, I am somebody who I thrive off of working. And that the way that Hasha made work is it's very t you see very tangible results. So that's like kind of like a quick high I would like to call it. But that's not really the where the real work is. And if you are only going to work so that you can feel like everyone loves me and I'm going to keep on feeling good and accomplished and I want my boss to notice me and super talented. >> Exactly. Then that is a recipe for disaster and you will not even be a good employee. >> Right. you will not be able to communicate while lie because let's say for example you made a mistake if it's all about how you look and looking good then it's very hard to own up to a mistake and let your boss know by the way I took on too many responsibilities this one fell through the cracks and I apologize and these are the steps that I'm doing to correct it and you know in the future I realize I can't take on this responsibility which doesn't look good you know potentially right >> but actually that makes you a much more trustworthy employee that makes you a much more invaluable employee >> as a hiring manager I want to keep you. I like the honesty. I like the openness. I like that you recognize that you are fallible. And also, when it comes to the accomplishments, if you're so worried about losing your job, I mean, I'm not saying that's not a real fear, but when you're coming to approach your boss and ask for a raise or negotiate something, if the whole focus is trying to promote yourself in your career, then it's very scary to ask for a raise. Then you're like, "Oh, I'm self-conscious. Did I really do those things?" No, you practically look at it. you see what you've done, what you've accomplished over the past, and you're presenting the facts. You do not need to get emotionally involved when asking for a raise. The second that your job becomes an emotional outlet for you, like I said, then you're in a bad place. Your home and your husband and your kids, that is where your real work is. And when you recognize that work is just, you know, another springboard to help you become a better person, then you become such a fantastic employee. That's such a beautiful I'm still like so caught on the fact of how you look at that. It kind of reminds me of a mush that I I one time heard of instead of viewing your life as a pie chart where like okay 75% of my life is Yiddish kite and then 25% of my life is you know like other stuff to view your life almost as a globe and that you have different push pins kind of coming out of this globe and you're saying okay my my style has to fit into this globe of Yiddish kite right you want every part of your life to have a place in Yiddish kite or else maybe question maybe it doesn't belong Right? So everything to our friends to our who we choose to marry of course to our to where we live to what we eat what activities we do etc. All these things are little like push pins in this like in this globe of Yiddish kite. And I think that what you're sharing to me is almost saying make work as another push pin in this globe of Yiddish kite so that there is a place for it in your overall life in your overall taped which again I think is invaluable to I hope it's invaluable to people listening. It's invaluable to me. So I guess okay great that's point number one. Now, can we go to point number two about what like the ideal is? Maybe we can touch on what you feel is in terms of the importance of women working in a job that they do or don't like. Meaning, is there a value in liking your job? >> Oh, I mean, there's a sure value. I mean, I'm not I don't need to be the one to say this. Like I said, Lavo says you should go find work that you enjoy. And personally, I'm a better mother because I can't be with my kids all day, every day. I need to get out. I need to use my creative skills. I need to have an outlet. And that's the way Hashan created me. And will I always be like that? I don't know. That's where I am right now. And that's okay. And I think that's so brave of you to say because so many women are so fearful of saying, "I need to get out of the house. I need to use my like intellectual brain. I'm creative. I need to use that." I do want to point out though, by the way, my intellectual brain is on fire when it comes to raising my kids. That's why I need to get >> Oh, that's so interesting. >> It's it's like there's so much. >> It's I feel like it's almost a different type of brain that you're using. >> I have to analyze every situation when you really want. You have to be a mother with intention. You have to be a wife with intention. >> Of course, >> the whole time. That's our goal, right? >> That means exactly. So, someone says something to you, do you automatically react? I need to like chill out so I go to work. If you spend your whole life thinking that this is the biggest impact you're making, like just back to the point that we were saying before, then that becomes extremely pressureful and you're spending most of your day at work or maybe you're not. And then it creates an environment at work. Work should be an outlet for you where it allows for you to be a better mother and or a better wife. And I know that when my kids are like stepping on my face and I need to be like a mountain and not react because this is what kids do and really come from a place of not my initial instinct to get upset at them to push them off of me whatever it is and really meet them where they are takes an incredible amount of brain power. >> Yes, >> I am exhausted when I when >> I totally agree and >> and some parents do it all day and I think it's incredible. I think Hashem creates different people with different cohos and different capabilities and different willpower and I think that almost like a prestep to all of this is learning more about yourself and understanding yourself more and that's like the answer to like almost everything in life. >> You cannot work if you do not know where you're holding and where you are. >> Right. Right. >> I don't think its would say you know the Asia style should go out before she even had any part of her emotional world and need figured out. meaning like a prerequisite like really understanding so much more about yourself, what makes you tick, your strengths, your weaknesses, what it is that you want to do and again that we hope and you know we encourage that is when you realign that our tough kid as our home and making the work aspect fit in to that. >> Exactly. I come back refreshed, ready to take care of my kids because I had a good day at work or maybe I had a bad day at work, but I I I got out. >> It's still you're using a different muscle. I also feel this way for me when I work and then I in the evenings when I'm home, I'm using a different muscle. Even if I had an exhausting day that morning working, I'm using a different muscle. I might be exhausted from running around, you know, my my two-year-old, but I'm using a different muscle. And I guess it's important to >> some people need to give that muscle a break is basically the point. >> So then let's say somebody's going to work and their work is like so exhausting that they come home and they're not recharged. Meaning we're saying >> they should not be there. >> So then how maybe you can give us tools of how if we're saying that the work needs to fit in with a bigger as Kyle picture what should we watch out for when choosing a job? And again can totally relate to the fact that so many times we can't choose our ideal job. So many times we are put in a situation where this is what we have or maybe you want to support a husband in learning and this is the only thing that you have or maybe your husband's working and you are building a tower home and this is also the only option you have. I think that giving us perspective and giving us kind of like a blueprint of what to watch out for. Even if right now that you're at a job that you do not like and you're doing it to support your family, kola kavote to you and this is just something to keep in mind. I think it's something when your family needs parnasa I believe you have not just I believe I you know I would imagine that robban would say that you have anas to support your family. I've asked my RV at points. I'm like, can I just chuck the computer out the window because I would just love to just not have, you know, internet in my house and I just would love to just, you know, work some random job and whatever. And he was like, absolutely not. Like, >> and we have an especially when we bring children into the world. But even before then, we have an to provide for our families, for ourselves. So, if you find yourself in a job, if you're listening to this and you're like, "Wow, well, what am I supposed to do? I do not like my job. This is just something and I'm speaking you know to myself also it's a search it's a journey trying to understand what the ideal job is. So I guess Fagy maybe you can give us some tools or some points of what it is that are important points to keep in mind when looking for an ideal job. We mentioned before >> looking and also being at work and things to notice at work. >> Okay. So go ahead. So first of all, it's really important to this concept of strategic thinking, and it's kind of how we live our lives in Judaism, which is I have a larger goal at hand. Now, it has nothing to do with work, but it will dictate what type of places I will work at. I envision in five years from now, me looking like this, doing XYZ, and really really think of the gamut. Think about where I am emotionally, things that are relatively in my control, but like sometimes you don't even need to think about what's in your control. Just where do you see yourself in 5 years from now? And that allows for you to make good decisions along the way. Is taking this job getting me closer to that goal? And when you have a clear goal, then you become a lot less resentful of the hiccups that come along the way because you are focusing on getting that ball in the basket. It doesn't matter that you tripped along the way or that you had to sidestep someone. >> So, sorry, that's just a basketball muscle. >> We do not encourage actually trampling over other people. [laughter] >> Exactly. So that's one thing just to have the strategic thinking. But that's what makes these decisions and makes it clear for you. Am I in the place that is getting me closer to my goal? So I'm in a toxic working place and I come back depressed every single day. Is that getting me to my larger goal? I don't know if it's getting up the corporate ladder. Maybe it is. Maybe this is what everybody does in order to start off as like a lowly CPA, you know, doing their own thing and working crazy hours and then slowly making it into corporate and then working these crazy insane hours, working 60 plus hours and going out, you know, with your co-workers in places that you do not enjoy and you do not want to be and you do not feel as good for your roughness. But if your goal is to climb up the corporate ladder, then yeah, you're going to suffer through it. or that's not your goal. Then it's about oh I want to I really want to enjoy what I'm doing and I want to bring home a solid parnasa and I want to work with people and I have these skills and then you are able to make a much better decision. So you find yourself in this very toxic workplace get out. I'm not telling you to quit your job. I'm telling you to start looking for other jobs. Now we said what do you look for when you're looking for other jobs? You want to go to a place where you feel that your values and your boundaries are going to be respected. Those are two very clear points that is very much almost like tangible that your values and that your boundaries are respected. I think that those are two very concrete things that we can watch out for and that are not like esoteric and people can really relate to. >> Exactly. >> The only issue is that a lot of people never actually sat down to define what their boundaries are before they approached work. They never sat down to define what are their values. This is one of the assignments that we work on in the program that you need to understand what are your roles and responsibilities in this workplace >> which is the arkas of the employer to tell you and if they don't >> it'd be great if he did >> but if it's not then it's on you if they don't tell you then you need to make sure that you know >> but it obviously requires the other side communicating and saying okay you know we need you for these and these hours and to do this and that whatever >> exactly and you need to understand does those requirements fall into my value system does this pass over boundaries. I was speaking to somebody who was negotiating for a new job and everything seemed to be working out except for the fact that one they didn't offer her exactly what she was looking for and they wanted her to work certain hours that she really likes to dedicate being with her kids. So then negotiate that, have that conversation. And she said, "Listen, if you're not going to pay me what I'm looking for, meaning if you would pay me x amount of dollars, and maybe it's worth it. That's up to her decide. I don't know. That wasn't our conversation." But what she came back and said, "You want to pay me, you know, $3 an hour less than what I was looking for, but I am going to take the liberty of making these boundaries very clear. I do not work between the hours of 7 and 8:00 p.m. I do not work then." But why? because she had a very clear understanding of what her value system is. She was able to dictate what are her boundaries and she also like again she knew her responsibility of what this job entails and with that understanding she's able to say I know that my boundaries can be respected. There is a way for me to be the team leader in this project without giving up my seven to eight. >> Right? >> Again if you're going to be if the responsibility is something way beyond you then don't go into that job. Right? Be real with yourself. So when you look at a job description and when you interview the company, you want to make sure, are my responsibilities clear? Is my role clear? Is this something that aligns with my boundaries? Is it something that aligns with my values? Can I contribute my, you know, my 100% and know that I'm not going to come back home and be all emotionally spent. >> Wow, that's so enlightening. And it keeps on going back to your values and your boundaries and the responsibilities that you're going to take over on this job reflect who you are. Meaning your values and your boundaries reflect what's important to you, how you live your life, how you want to live your life. And therefore when you first look inward and decide what it is that is your end goal climbing up the corporate ladder or is it raising a home in the best way that you know how and learning along the way. So depending on what you do choose and obviously those are two extremes but everyone will have their own little nuances depending on themselves and their lives and their families and when you first define that for yourself you are then able to look for a job and to attract a job that kind of falls into that. Such a good point by the way. I love that you said attract a job because it's really very true. >> If you are a person with strong values and you are clear on what your roles and responsibilities should be, you know, both at home and at work and you are clear about your value system, then that totally translates into an interview. They read it off of your body language and that is somebody that I would like to hire, >> right? >> You want to hire someone because I know they take responsibility. I know that they're trustworthy. I know they have all the soft skills that make them successful in the work environment. >> Right. That's so interesting. And something that's coming to mind now is that when you were saying like come up with your like fiveyear plan. And even if you are in a job right now that you don't like and that you don't feel like fits into your long-term goal and to your into that like little like globe that I was talking about before, it reminds me about how inavos it says and makers translates loosely to who is wise. The person who knows where he is, who understands himself now, who knows his surroundings now, who looks inwards and understands where he is holding now. And is somebody who looks towards the future looking toward the future? What future do you want to hold? Where do you want to be in one year, in three years, in five years? >> That's exactly it. >> And how am I going to get from here to there? And you know what? A lot of it is trial and error. And a lot of it is you've got a job that you thought is going to work for you. Okay, it doesn't. Great. Let's take note of that. Again, we're not saying quit your job and not support your family, but we're saying this is something to note and then let's see how can I better for next time. So, I just want to summarize this. do you want to say anything else before we wrap it up? >> No, I mean this was incredible. This was a really amazing opportunity. I really hope that people gained from listening to this. I think this is a message that needs to be spoken across very strongly and reach as many for women as possible. I appreciate you bringing this topic up. Of course. And just to summarize back to the pasok, we started off with pas talking about how a woman is like a ship that goes to get her bread, which is parnasa. And we were saying how the matid says that it is a woman's role to partake in her parnasa and bringing in the parnasa even though it is her husband's job. And then we had the amazing Herman to talk to us about how that relates to our life. Thank you so so much Figy for coming on to the good vibes podcast. If you are interested to hearing more from Fagie and upcoming webinars and training programs, you can look on projectcareers.org and you can reach Fagi at [email protected]. There you can find a lot of information. There's webinars, there's trainings about this. helps women learn about themselves and about their industry and their career choices and their soft skills to help them make work fit into their bigger picture of an Asia Kyle. Thank you so much for joining us. Please reach out and email us if you have any questions or thoughts. We would love to hear from you. Stay tuned for some more good vibes. Thank you. [music]