Ex-Christian Presses Rabbi Singer—Answers Every Christian Should Hear

So if I have to choose between Moses a blessed memory and Paul not so blessed memory, I'm definitely going with Moses every time. >> Rabbi Tavia Singer, welcome to Pure Podcast again. I'm so honored to be able to have you on my podcast. Thank you for being here. >> Well, thank you for having me. >> Thank you. So, our last podcast we kind of shared about how um you and I met 30 years ago. Um a little bit about my background, the 7th Day Adventist Church, um all the different um different prophecies and different Bible verses that kind of are used and not really explained in the correct way. And um it was just a beautiful podcast. So, I really appreciate it. I think it brought a lot of clarity to a lot of um people who have a lot of questions. So, I was hoping that on today's podcast we can do a messianic master class. Does that sound good to you? >> Brilliant. >> There's there's definitely a lot of um there's a lot of talk now about the messianic era, what's going to be happening. A lot of people are feeling this energy and I I know that every few years it gets intense and it gets popular again, but I feel that since October 7th the intensity and the interest in it has really been sparked by a lot of Jews, a lot of Christians um do you feel that there has been at least in Israel a lot more push from Messianic Christians to convert Jews since that experience? Yes, that means and it really did connect very much in to the redemption and that probably just confused our viewers. So the key of the messianic age, the most important feature of it is the worldwide knowledge of God. So whereas during the Exodus some 3,300 years ago in the year 2448 a single nation was redeemed was delivered from Egypt from bondage. Now as the children of Israel in the messianic age the world is redeemed, the world is transformed and uh we are told throughout scriptures and that is it's there's an order of events that occurs leading up to the messianic age. And this the reason I used Exodus to bounce off of is because the Bible tells us that in fact what will happen in the messianic age whereas we'll be like will be an exodus but no one will even be talking about Egypt because this will be Egypt but on a with a multiplier and Jeremiah says we won't even Egypt this will be something so expansive. So just like the going out of required a whole series of events in which we celebrate the Passover seder um which is called oddly an order seder in Hebrew for those who don't know this it probably will surprise you to discover that that word seder means nothing more than an order. And at first glance, this seems it seems like we can all say, I could have come up with a better name than for the meal in which we are celebrating a redemption. But as it turns out, our redemptions occur in order. The most central features of the messianic age as we find Tanakh and this is very very clear is the um Jacob's trouble which means something horrible happens to the children of Israel. Jeremiah tells us this not about his own time. Jeremiah lived during a terrible time in Jewish history. He warned and saw the destruction of the first temple. He's not talking about that. He makes that very clear that there is a day coming when first the Jewish people will be returning back to the land of Israel. Jeremiah 30:3 and then Jeremiah 30:7 tells us there will be an asared Yakov a time of great surah which means translated as tribulation but it surah means something horrible. Um umi There's nothing like it. There will be no parallel to this. However, from it will come your delivery. So that's an order of events. The Jewish people then must return back to their land. But that's not enough. Jerusalem must be in the hands of the Jewish people. Zechariah 12. In fact, that's what the whole chapter is about. This the consequences of this cannot be overstated. And the effect this had on the world when Jerusalem in the blink of an eye landed in the hands returned back to the hands of the Jews because King Hussein did something dumb and that is he shot missiles during the six- day war um at the western part of Jerusalem which forced the hand of Mosha Deat. The point is critical and that is that the Christian world observed this as well. And it's specifically those Christians that recognized that Jerusalem must be in the hands of the Jews in order for the final messianic age to occur. They then launched a targeted attack on converting Jews to Christianity. So we get the we get the dates. of Jerusalem is liberated in the late spring of 1967. I was a little boy. I remember it. I remember listening to the events unfold on the radio with my grandmother. Um, Jews for Jesus is launched and incorporated in 1973, a half a decade after that with a vision that now that the Jews have returned to Jerusalem, therefore we have to convert the Jews to Christianity in order to enable Jesus to return. So that's the that's the connector there. These Christians because of a a tenuous passage at the end of Matthew 23 believe that in order for Jesus to make the second coming the Jews first have to accept him as their savior have to become Christians and that's where the whole launching of the messianic movement Jews for Jesus which is a Protestant Christian movement masquerading as something Jewish was launched. So the connection is umbilical. So right now is that is that um are they are they going full force even more than when they did back in 1973? Do you feel like that is more of a a problem for Jews who are looking for truth? Are they coming across a lot of these Christian missionaries right now? the people who are it's really mind-blowing that a time like this like imagine a Jew whose family somehow survived Christian Europe who somehow survived Christian Russia like made it through all that only to be in the land of Israel or really anywhere around the world and then Christian missionaries do what Sar Nikolai I could not do what the crusaders could not accomplish what the Inquisition could not bring about what the pgrams against the Jews in Spain and in France could not produce but it's their great great grandchildren that have been baptized and converted to Christianity. This is a tragedy of such a massive magnitude. And that's why I devoted my entire life to helping those Jews in the church return back to the God of Israel. And consequently, which was not my intent, so many people who are not Jewish or were not Jewish started studying what I had to say. And you were a little girl at the time. You a very little girl at the time and you began to study and you chose the God of Israel. You kneel before him and accept Hashem as your only Lord, as your only savior and he alone is your rock. He alone is your redeemer and you renounce all idolatry. And this is happening all over the world. And as I said to you the last time we spoke that if all my work of more than 40 years just brought one daughter of Hashem, you to your God, it would be worth it. All my all my work would be worth it for you. >> That well that means a lot. And you have you've really brought back so many souls. I think that it's really interesting that while I was going through this process of you know separating myself from the Christian ideology that I was brought up in the the biggest thing um let's say after after we discovered about the trinity and about you know who Jesus was and I kind of want to little get into that as well but um the messianic era the difference between what I was taught is going to happen and the Jewish version was like so completely opposite it with it. That was I think one of the hardest things for me to really comprehend and understand. Um if you can talk a little bit about the the differences between what the Jewish tradition, what our tradition teaches of the Messianic era and the Christian and kind of just see how they how they can contradict each other. um and where there's some parallels in that because I feel like a lot of people even coming out of Christianity that's something that's it's so ingrained in to them >> and the danger which you've highlighted is that Christians and Jews are using the same words in fact in Abrahamic religions we're all using the same words but we mean something very very different and that's exactly correct in our tradition in the Jewish faith and I'm speaking to the viewer in case you wish to join it. Our tradition is based on a rabbi and his name is Rabbi Isaiah. There's another rabbi whose name is Rabbi Jeremiah. And both of them, Isaiah, the great rabbi of the Jewish people in chapter 2 verse 1-4 and Jeremiah 23 uh 5-8. And it's really all over in Ezekiel from 34 to 48. We have all these prophets who tell us exactly what's going to happen in the messianic age. And none of it remotely resembles anything that Christianity teaches about the Messiah because Christianity is instead relying on Paul for its theology who not only wrote in Greek but thought in Greek and his ideas were neoplatonic. And Tanakh is about a time when the nations will know about the one God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and they will worship him alone and they will announce that he alone is Lord. Zechariah 14. And whereas the church tragically produced a god man who Christians worship. This is such a tragedy because the Hebrew Bible says God is not a man and that we only worship the one true God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And Christians around the world, good people are worshiping a man as God. Let alone I'm not going to go into let alone the largest Christian denomination by far the Roman Catholic Church venerates and prays to Mary and the saints and so on. I'm not going to even discuss that. The messianic age is a time when the world understands their error, their mistake and all. And it says that literally 10 Gentiles grab the shirt of a Jew and say, "Let us go with you because we have heard that God is with you." And I beg you, don't look it up in a Jewish Bible, meaning a Jewish. Look it up in a Christian translation, a King James. So you know that I'm not putting any words in there. Zechariah 8 23. And incidentally, if the Jews are wrong about the Messiah, if the Jews are wrong about the Trinity and we unfortunately reject it as the church teaches and we don't we don't know about the new. So why the end of days would the Gentiles grab the shirt of a Jew and and state that we made a mistake and now we know you're right. And Jeremiah 16 19:20 literally says the non-Jews will come to you and will recognize a mistake. If we made a mistake, why is the Tanakh that you Christians believe in say that you the non-Jews will be coming to the Jews say we made a mistake? I mean that should I I just that should blow your mind away. That should be just full stop mind blown. There will be a time when all the nations will know the truth and the knowledge of God will cover the world as the water covers sea. Read Isaiah chapter 11. He'll know everything about a world peace where the wolf will lie with the lamb. Uh a lion will eat straw a time. It doesn't mean that lions become herbivorous. It means that the the nations will become peaceful. All the wars and genocides in the Sudan and Nigeria all of the thing are passed. What's going on in Ukraine, Lebanon, all of that will come to an end. There will be a building of a temple in Jerusalem which is very very critical. This is all preceded by a war at the end of days in which Persia goes to war with its proxies against Jerusalem. plainly in Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39. And the purpose of this war, we're told explicitly is that the nations will know that I am Lord. And this is also in Zechariah 12, which means there's an attack against the Jews after they return Jerusalem. It causes a mass mourning and a response. And then God destroys the enemies of Israel. And the purpose of it, see the end of Ezekiel 38, so the world will know that I am Lord. the end of 39. So the world will land Lord. It's very very transparent and there'll be an in gathering of the exiles. The children of Israel will be restored a second timing. The first time when they came out of Egypt, the second time now and never be uprooted. See Amos 9:14 and 15. Christian has nothing to do with this at all. What Christianity has in view is worshiping a godman who is if if one reads the gospels which are very well written. There's a very simple theme in them. So there are 89 chapters in the gospels in total and if and the theme of it is and I don't know if I've ever shared this with anyone on air before and I'd like to do that with you. There's a theme in like in the superheroes which is really a very ancient theme when the hero saves people and the hero has superhuman powers and I'm not trying to in any way be demeaning because this is an ancient theme that goes back thousands of years in the pagan world and that is there's a a person who has superhuman powers. He is an occultation which means he's completely hidden. Like let's think about Superman for a moment. That's why this that theme always works. So Superman putly is a newspaper man working for in a large city. But when someone's in trouble, he comes out of hiding and with superhuman powers saves whoever it is. And then he returns back into this occultation which means this being hidden. And that's exactly what you find in the book of Mark which contains 16 chapters 679 verses. And the first half of the book of Mark I means until chapter 8 nobody knows who Jesus is and he just somehow pops out of nowhere. He heals someone, delivers somebody, forgives their sins, and then goes back into a hide hidden secret and no one is sure who he is and how who is he and it's a massive secret. We see this in Mark, it's most striking, but we see even in Matthew 16 as an example. Uh Jesus, we are told, asks his followers, who do you say that I am? Now this is for those who don't know this we are told occurs just surely before he's arrested and crucified. I do not full disclosure these events are not historical. If you would have been there with a cell phone you would have not been able to record it. However Christianity was borrowing this from the same thing with Batman and Spider-Man bat what all these people ordinary people and they suddenly become heroes and go back. That's what's so that's why all these themes in the ancient world till today operate around this and Jesus we are told as his followers who he supposedly walking around in book of John on the way the truth life he's saying pronouncing himself one with the father in Matthew he's asking who do you think I am and nobody has an idea lo and when Peter says you are the Christ son of god he says flesh and blood didn't reveal to you what's the big secret the answer is this is really a superhero theme which is very attractive. That means do not ladies and gentlemen uh just dismiss Christianity as some sort of um weird is a it is a what what it is produced is essentially a hybrid of themes that Wellins sconce in the Greco Roman mythological theme and simply took it borrowed it and then synchronized it with Judaism. He's a general Jewish of sketch, but there's nothing it and then the idea that the that the great hero is dies willingly so that you can live. Wow. Do you know how many men cheated on me and were not loyal to me, but Jesus won't do that. He'll ne he died for me, but he rose on the third day. So, he conquered death. And the story doesn't even make sense because how could God die? and let's just set aside if God can die for moment if he's going to resurrect on Sunday big deal I would do it too if I can live forever the story that but it just synchronizes with this Greco Romero mythology it's not restricted incidentally to the Greco Roman world far beyond we find this in the east as well the same theme that's very satisfying and it uh connects to low self-esteem I'll never be soup men or super women I'll never do that but someone else could do that for This has nothing to do with Tanakh. The end is that the is the end is really a beginning. It's an appointment with destiny when all the nations will recognize the one true Hashem. There's no one besides him. >> Yeah. That that is that is so in line because with what Judaism shares and represents and tells us is is the messianic is is the Messiah is not this vigilante. He he looks in the eyes of everyone and he says he uses Messiah eyes and he sees them for who they are and he brings everyone to the true belief and the true acceptance of the true God of Israel true Hashem. We don't worship him. He has a role to bring out that nishama that true belief and that acceptance of God and the idea of truth in each and every person. >> What you said is directly from Tana. He will be a person who will judge among the peoples. He'll give which means he will help people because he has a spirit of understanding that Hashem gave to him. And there can't be God because God's giving you something he didn't have. Not only that, in the end of Isaiah 11:2, it says he will fear the Lord. He'll fear God. Isaiah 11:3 says that he will fear the Lord. He will be filled. He will be imbued with the spirit of Hashem. And what will he do? Verse three, Isaiah 11. Just to show you who your Rebi now is, is Rabbi Isaiah. That he will not judge people after the sight of his eyes. Rather, he will do it because of the spirit that Hashem puts on it. He will not judge people how they look. And if I was standing with you in CVS in a drugstore, let's say you and I were standing online waiting to pay and I turned to you and I said, "Don't look, but the guy behind us looks like Jesus." Hey, let's say I said that to you, right? Don't turn around, but the guy behind us looks like Jesus. You would immediately have a sense that when you turn around to gra to to snatch a glance, here's what you would see. There's a man who's believe probably 6 foot, 6'1, 6'2, gorgeous hair, beautiful eyes, perfect uh facial structure, a little bit of a beard. He's a knockout. That's what you would find. And in fact, if if you we were going to create a god in our image, that's exactly what we wanted. Jesus. Look at Superman. What did he look like? What did Christopher Reeves look like? He looked exactly like that. He He will look perfect. He looked like he was chiseled out. Look at all the They look fant. Why do they all look so good? because that's what and if you dig up the old uh statues from the ancient world of Hercules, they all look that way. They all look crazy, insane. Why? What Christianity is in some is man's failed effort to create God in his image. That's what we would think God should look like. Conversely, in contrast, Judaism is God's successful effort in creating man in his image. It's just the exact opposite. So that's what it is. It's Hashem's creat. And therefore, from a Christian perspective, God Jesus is perfect and he's beautiful. He doesn't have a split end. He has hair to die for in sin. And what are you in Christianity? You're a sinner. You're filthy. You're dirty. You can't save yourself. There's nothing you could do. which fits seamlessly with the low self-esteem where we feel lousy anyway and therefore it it what it does is it metastasizes to that vulnerable cell and it rides the vehicle of low self-esteem that I'm a sinner but I am a sinner I I managed to fool everybody else but I know what a lousy person I am Jesus is none of those things he's perfect and therefore and he died for your sins borrowing from the ancient pagan sacrifice sacrificial system where virgins and babies were routinely killed and offered to the gods in order to appease the gods. And I ask you the question, why in the ancient world were the Aztecs, the Mayans, the an why did they in the Levant babies, why do they use virgins and babies? Why not bank robbers and murderers and rapists? The reason is you know the answer because a virgin and a baby represent innocence and that's what that's this is an ancient pagan mythology that simply synchronizes with Judaism and it it is purporting it's dressing up as Juda but it's nothing has nothing to do with it. It's not people routinely and you wisely point this out. People routinely think that oh Christians think that the Messiah has come and Jews think he's going to come. That's the least of our differences. It's about not only who the Messiah is, who we are, and who God is. That's the difference between us is something striking. However, what do the prophets say? The prophets urge us to know that we're created in the image of God. Seek Hashem when you find him. Isaiah 55:6, God will forgive you. Why would God forgive me? I want you to know there are people in my life, and I know you, the viewer, are thinking this. There are people who've hurt me, and I'll never forgive them. Never. Why would God forgive me? I wouldn't forgive me if my husband, if my wife would know what I've done, if my husband would know what I done, he would throw me out of my head. God knows everything. Why would he ever take me back? That's the next verse. Cuz my ways are higher than your ways. My thoughts are higher than your thoughts. Isaiah 55:89. This is so spectacular, so delicious. So these are the rabbis of the Jewish people, and that's the prophets of Israel. that yeah, like you said, that is exactly one of the ways that you can understand the beauty of Judaism um by really diving into Isaiah and and the Messianic era. What does that mean? Because that is a completely different religion. You can't, like you said, met metastasize Christianity onto Judaism. it it doesn't work because at the end, if you just look at where we're both ending, it is two completely different stories that have nothing to do with each other. We continue, we we get closer to God. Um, in Cabala, it tells us that we go closer, we move into this circular world where Hashem is in the middle, so to say, and where where our consciousness is is coming directly from him. It's not coming from a teacher or from anything. we have this new Torah which I know that um and when I was in Christianity it said you know when Messiah comes they use this verse of there's going to be a new Torah um in Judaism if you want to maybe explain that a little bit too we understand that as a new understanding a new comprehension of the Torah that we've learned that we have now not a new book we're not getting a new testament >> as it turns out Christians represent it and you said that quite accurately like like there's a new Torah but in fact if you look through Tanakh, you'll you'll be you as the Christian will be disappointed to find those that verse that Hebrews chapter 8 purports to quote does not exist. What it really says is that there's a new covenant. What does a covenant mean? Well, it means a promise, a guarantee. And the context of Jeremiah 31:30, 31,32 is the following. that were as when I brought you out of Egypt and I brought you to the land of Israel. I God was faithful like a husband to a wife. That's a big theme in Jeremiah that God was the faithful husband and the children of Israel with the faithless wife. That's very It's not just Jeremiah. It's all over the place. Now Jeremiah, I I want to do this because it's so intense. It just chapter 2 three is all is about this like I was totally loyal to you. I never betray and you slept around on me. Not only that you went into another husband and Jeremiah said I want to emphasize this in a way I never did but this is going to break some hearts. In Jewish law, if a a wife betrays her husband and is unfaithful and then marries another man and then eventually breaks up with that fellow and she goes back to original husband, says, "I want to come back." The husband may be inclined to forgive her and take her back. But there's in Jewish law, he can't take her back. He can she can never return back once she is gone with another man. Hashem says that is the law for man but I will take you back even so this is explosive mean there's nothing more in it just makes your head explode when you hear this and God says but I'll take you back that's what kind of a husband I I love you I just want you home I adore you I created you after all so Jeremiah then says that however what's going to happen is I'm going to restore you back to the land and that will be The new covenant, the new restoration of the Jewish people when you return back has nothing to do with a new Torah, a new law. The Torah can change. The Torah is forever and ever. See the last passage of Deuteronomy 29. The secret things belong to the Lord. But that which has been revealed belongs to us and to our children forever that we may keep all the laws of this Torah. So if I have to choose between Moses of blessed memory and Paul not so blood blessed memory, I'm definitely going with Moses every time. This is very very clear. The new covenant means that when the Jews eventually are going to be restored back to the land and half of the known Jews in the world live in the land of Israel, which is unbelievable. No period during the second temple time was there half the Jews living in the land of Israel. Vast majority out. I mean, not since Hezekiah was such a time. When you fully restored back, you will never be expelled again. The passage goes on to say, look at the sky, the sun, the moon, the stars. If they'll pass away, so will Israel pass away. So the new covenant means a promise of a restoration of the Jews. Had nothing to do with a new Torah. Just the opposite. In Ezekiel chapter 37, a messianic chapter verse 24 and 25 is talking about the Messiah. And I want to tell you Christians, you believe, Christians that Ezekiel 37:24 and 25 is speaking about the Messiah. It says that and they will keep my laws and my statutes. I beg you, read it for yourself of the Messiah. He's called David. So there's nothing. What happened is that whoever wrote the epistle to the Hebrews in chapter 8 says there that God has done away with the Jews, he's rejected the Jews. See verse 9 of chapter 8. Meaning it misquot Jeremiah 31. Jeremiah 31 says that I was a husband to them. And Hebrews 8:9 says, "And I disregarded them." And verse 13 says in that there'll be a new the old one disappears and is finished completely. That's exactly the opposite of Jeremiah's. And what Christians are doing is they're not really quoting Jeremiah. They're quoting Hebrews which is corrupting the original text. It's really mindblowing. >> Yeah, that is it's amazing how that can happen. And you like you said so clearly, you can just open up a new Kings James. You can open up a a King James version and it's right there. You don't even have to look at the the Jewish Bible. You don't have to look at the Tanakh if you don't want to. It's it's mind-blowing how I mean just a quick question is like how do how do Christians circumvent that? It's been a while since I've been brought up to learn how to do this as a child. So I don't remember how, but when they're faced with this end of days that's that's spoken about and the messianic era in the Tanakh in the Old Testament, what do they do with it? >> So I'll tell you and what you're going to hear is not going to surprise you and you will certainly recall this. What's really happening is Christians, not all of them, but Christians by and large and very nice people, I imagine. I'm sure. But what I mean I'm I'm just saying and it's very clear that I'm I'm not saying that like it's very clear that I don't say things in order to get Christians to like me. I know that didn't but I'm I'm obviously not doing that. But here's what's really happening. They how is it that you can have an intelligent Christian, an intelligent Jew, and they both draw opposite conclusions. Now, one thing that of course is a elephant in the room. The Orthodox Jew can read Hebrew as fluently as a Christian can read a newspaper. It's just little boys and little girls. And I'm going to say this, if you're a former conservative Jew, I don't God for mean to offend you, but I'm just it's just very I might as well say the truth that any child going to yeshiva, they can read Hebrew. It's this and Christians in contrast are not taught Hebrew when they go to Christian school. They're not they can learn in college. There's very very very rare exceptions. But that's not the point. That's not that. So that is a big elephant room. But there's something else going on on the on the granular level really on the not not just the molecule but in the atom. I want to explain to you what's really going on. You have two good people. One's a Christian, one's a religious Jew. They both look at a text and they see something opposite. What's happening here? Both are seem to be acting in good faith. And each one thinks the other one's nuts. The Christian is wondering, I could tell you this straight away. The good Christian is going, how could it be that the Jews who win so many Nobel prizes in the hard sciences, they're winning nearly 30% Nobel prizes. They delivered my baby. They kept me out of jail, did my tax return, and invented a vaccine that kept me from gaining polio, and they figured out how to get penicellin into the shape of a pill in 1941 and probably invented more medicines than any other. How is it that people who are clearly have a reputation for their intelligence are so blind that they can't see that Christ is king? How do they do that? You follow? I I assure you the viewer that this is what the good Christians are thinking. I'm not talking about Candace Owens. I'm talking about the good thoughtful Christians. They really are perplexed by this. It bothers them because they re Judaism they believe is the rel religion from which Christianity emerged. All Christians will tell you that. Conversely, full disclosure, Jews look at the intelligent Christian, the the soberminded Christian, go how could you believe in this stuff? How could you possibly believe in Jesus? Why would you possibly think that he is God? Why would you believe in the tragedy? Why would you think that God has to come as a man and die for sins and then rise on the third day? How could you believe that? That you should eat the blood of the Messiah, whether that means literally or figuratively. How could you believe that has nothing in sense? So, there's something weird going on. And what I would like to do with you, with your permission, is to decipher this what appears at first glance to be a conundrum that's almost as unsolvable, but it's really easy to to solve. Let me explain to you what's really going on. What's happening here is the Jew, like you have Jewish children. So the Jewish child goes to yeshifa and is studying the Torah in Hebrew. He's reading through it. At some point, Jewish children realize, especially if they grow up in a country that's predominantly Christian, they realize that their neighbors believe in Jesus. They're not sure exactly what they believe in. They know it has something to do with Judaism, but they know it's very, very different. And eventually they come to little learn a little bit more about Christians believe. And then they go, they compare that to the Hebrew Bible. They go, there's no relationship between two. and utterly reject it. When I say reject it, they're just flabbergasted that anyone could cuz what they're really doing is they're reading the Christian Bible or they're studying or apprehending Christian teachings in light of Tanakh and they're going we're definitely do not want to be Christians. Okay, I mean we'll be nice to them and work with them and so on but this is completely alien. Now what is the happens to the Christian? I'll tell you the real truth. Sabine to the thoughtful good Christians. They're taught the following. When they go to bed at night, a little Christian girl is tucked in by her mother. And a mother says to her, sitting on the side of her bed, you know that Jesus loves you. And my mom was right about so many things in my life. She was right about the boys I shouldn't date. Actually wrong about this. And we would pray to God and we'd pray to Jesus and she would say, "You know, you're going to heaven with and you'll be with your with grandpa in heaven." And they'd pray together and then she'd give you a kiss on the forehead, tuck you in and and then what happens is Christians, these Christians grow up and what they then are doing, they're very, very familiar with the stories in the Gospels, very familiar with sweet cheeses. All Jesus doing is going around healing everybody. That's all he's doing. and no one thanks him or rather they curse him like what a horrible people that is whatever but I like Jews but this doesn't make sense and this is just terrible what happens then is they then encounter the Hebrew Bible now just full disclosure Christians are like religious Christians are are familiar with most of the stories in the book of Genesis that's the one book in Tanakh that they're way more familiar with than any other book in the Hebrew Bible they certainly know of of course about the record of creation, the flood, Abramite, they know all that they really are familiar with. And I would say everyone is because that's the formidable events of human history. But the key is what they then are doing is when they read the Hebrew Bible, they're reading it through a christoologgical filter. When when Abraham is greeting uh what he thinks are three strangers, but are really three angels, they're going that must be the trinity. So they're simply seeing that whenever there's an angel L or that's sweet Jesus who's just showing up to everything. So the Joseph was rejected by his brothers. Oh that's Jesus who was rejected by his kinfolks by Jews. So they're reading the Hebrew Bible through a Christian filter, through a Christian grid with Christian glasses on and therefore they're coming up with sweet Jesus and are utterly perplexed by why the Jews don't who are smart who are in every way I trust them with my baby. My doctor's a a Jew who doesn't who's unsaved and doesn't believe in Jesus and he's very I trust him with my life but not with my Lord. That's what's really going on. Now, why is the Christian wrong? Let's just solve the whole thing and and be transparent. And the reason why the Christian wrong is is incorrect here. Why is that wrong? Was very the answer I think most people grasp at this point. And that is that Christians and Jews actually agree on something. We have spent a little time together talking about what we don't agree on. I'd like to propose that there's something that we all can agree on. Although this is a little uncomfortable, but I'm going to say it anyway because that's what we're doing here. We're not going to just talk about what we're comfortable about or not. All Christians when pressed when pressed would concede that whereas the Hebrew Bible can be the word of God and the New Testament false. It just can be. However, it cannot be that the Christian Bible is true and the Hebrew Bible is false. That can't be. That's a very critical point. This is everything. If you can wrap your brain around this, you'll get it all. It is axiomatic. The Hebrew Bible could be true and the Christian Bible just falls. And it's just like the Book of Mormon and instead of written in English, it was written in Greek. It is impossible for the New Testament to be the word of God and the Old Testament as they called to be false. Why? Because the Christian Bible is pointing to the Hebrew Bible constantly follow. And therefore, the only way to approach this, if you want to call it a conundrum, the Jewish Christian question, is to therefore begin with the Hebrew Bible because that has to be the word of God. That's the national revelation. That's the foundation of everything. And even the Christian Bible says, even we are told Jesus says in the sermon on mount concedes all of this. Paul even says if Jesus didn't rise then our faith is in vain. 1 Corinthians 15. So I'm nothing I'm saying is innovative. I'm not strawmaning. I'm steelmaning this. Thus, therefore, Christians should say, "Wait, I need to study the Hebrew Bible and then evaluate and test the claims of the church in light of the Hebrew Bible, not the other way around." If Christians would do that, they would immediately recognize that the core teachings of the church are incompatible with Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel and would utterly reject the doctrine of trinity, utterly reject the notion of vicarious atonement because all these were opposed by the God of Israel. That that is so exactly my journey that when I came to Judaism because I was like I have to compare the New Testament against the Old Testament. I can't do it the other way. I have to make sure that again that the Tanakh this is true. And if there's anything false and everything gets thrown out but if there's something wrong in the New Testament then that gets thrown out and we're left with the original. And and that's that was my that was literally my journey. I remember when I was asking questions about you know the messianic age or just basic things like Trinity um we kind of spoke about on last time on the podcast last time but one of the other things that I was brought up to believe before I even explored Judaism was that there was this concept that Satan or the devil hand selected the Jews and blinded them to the truth. So, I was brought up just knowing that Jews were blinded to the truth. They were blinded by Satan. That was the wording that was taught to us and told to us that that's why they can't see the truth. It's right there in front of them. And you know, no matter how much you try, you you then if they if they say no, it's just because they have Satan glasses on, you know, and it's really it's really sad that that is even a thought. Like we don't we don't believe that. We don't believe that Satan's blinding anyone else to to who Hashem is. We just we believe that everybody has their own path and everybody has their different ways of experiencing, you know, God. And hopefully everybody eventually one day does come to see the falseness in their own religions, though it's not a very it's not a very pretty and comfortable thing to sit with. Um so yeah, it's it's definitely interesting to see how they bypass how they bypass that. Um, maybe just also a little bit I wanted to ask you about since we brought him up the the devil. The the Jewish concept of the devil in the messianic era, well, sorry, the Christian concept of the devil in the messianic era has nothing nothing to do with how Jews understand that in Christianity. Um, and again, you can you can I'll open the floor to you on this one. Um, there's this battle since the beginning of time between God and Satan. And it's the light and the dark and there's a battle and God has to get stronger and has to, you know, and and and fight it. It's hard for him and it's this big big big battle and it's eventually going to come to this big end. Um and in Judaism, we don't believe that at all. We don't believe that there's this force that's greater than God. We believe that God created this force. And I remember first understanding that I'm like, "Wait, you mean believe that God created what I knew was the devil was that the darkness is the evilness in the world?" I couldn't wrap my head around that. >> So, as it turns out, Christians don't believe the devil or Satan does this at the end, he is always the enemy of God. And for those who are not familiar with this, Christian, the New Christian Bible is very clear about this and Christian teachings just go with this. And that is that Satan originally was the highest of all angels, went into rebellion against God because of his pride and became the arch enemy and blasphemer of God and e and this plays out in the book of revelation. All of this is complete pagan dualism. Uh this would have a very comfortable place in ancient Persian religion like Zorastianism. The notion is that there's a good God and a bad God. And in fact, in case anyone thinks that I'm mischaracterizing him, Paul states explicitly uh into his letter to Corenth that in fact the devil is the Lord of this world. So just know that we're not I'm not strawming anything, misrepresenting anything, and all this is pagan nonsense. the I'm sorry to use such strong words but it's very clear in Tanakh that Satan is a servant of God and the reason why Satan was created was to tempt man or else we would have no free will meaning because we are created in the image of God it's very important and I beg you the viewer to listen like you've never listened in your life we are created in the image of God our default is to want to serve God. But there's a problem. If there was nothing that was pulling us away from God, we would have no free will and then virtue would be impossible. Moreover, we are promised by God in many instances that free will is a gift by God and created by God. Before I place a good life, death and evil, you should choose life that you may live. Please see Deuteronomy chapter 30. Verse 15 through 17 as an example. It's right there. Choose life that you may live. It's very clear in the text how. So therefore, Satan was created by God is a blessing. Thank God for Satan because if no Satan, we'd have no free will and the virtue would be impossible. Moreover, if you look at Tanh, Satan is rarely mentioned. It's in there. He's in there. But why do I say thank God is rarely mentioned? It's not intuitive. The reason that you might attribute the reason it's very easy to assess he appears so infrequently explicitly that's very easy to assess exactly what his job is. The most famous time no doubt is Job in which Satan comes before God and is in the company of all the ministering angels and he presents a case in that there's a man named Job. This is the oldest book in the Bible. It's not about a Jew. Job wasn't Jewish. But he says, "Look, Job is a righteous man. But as it turns out, Job has everything going for him. He has a big family. He's very wealthy. He has all the comforts of life. And perhaps if those were taken away from him, perhaps he would curse you." That's what the text says. And God says to Satan, paraphrasing, that okay, you could do anything you wanted to him, but you cannot um you can't kill him. You can't take away his life. And that's ex and Satan follows God exactly according to plan. Now every throughout the book of Job, every Job is suffering miserably miserably. Women do very well in Tanakh. Women generally is generally saying listen to the woman generally but there are notable exceptions. Job had a wife that you like want to kill yourself. Job had a wife that advised him in chapter 2:9 that why don't you man up curse God and die. Brilliant advice there. Right? He had companions that were telling him you know the worst advice. Job at the end of the book is successful in that he does not curse God. does curse his life. He wishes he was never born. He curses the womb in which he was conceived. He does. But he never never curses God and begal because this God restores his family and his fortune manifold. By the way, in Christian theology that can't happen because how could Job be righteous? It doesn't even make sense. But the point is it's so transparent that Satan does the will of God. If Satan was an enemy of God, why is he coming to God for permission to do and to do what he suggests and God restricts that and Satan follows him. If God wanted to destroy Satan, he could do it in the blink of an eye. It's so silly. We have many examples of Satan to come before God. God says, "Get out of here." He there's another example when he bought Yeshua Ben Sodok and he said he has dirty cloth. I'm not going to an explanation of Zachariah. God says get out of here. say, you know, this is not for you. It's it's I'm not going to go into why, but Yahushua was in fact innocent of the charges levied against him. Put clean clothes on him. The key point is that Satan is a blessing from Hashem. It gives us free will. That's his way. He was created for that purpose like the other angels who are do have a job to do. Now, but Christianity, as we said early on in this interview, is simply synchronizing. Its core values and view, its zeitgeist is one that's utterly pagan and would be at home in the ancient Athens, in ancient Greece, in middle Platonic thinking. This is the way they thought in the ancient world that this world was a corrupt, filthy world. That's why Paul, you know, looked at looked at the resurrection like why would you want to resurrect in a physical body, a spiritual body? 1 Corinthians 15, whatever that's corrected by the gospels. I don't want to get too complicated in this, but all these ideas are pagan ideas that the church then synchronizes with some outer shell veneer of Judaism. It's very superficial. They're using Jewish terms, no doubt. But Satan is a blessing. And the church has it all playing out as Satan is like this formidable enemy of God. And now I know Christians are thinking, "Well, what about Isaiah chapter 14? What about Ezekiel chapter 28? It's all nonsense." Read Isaiah chapter 14 in context. That's talking about uh the king of Babylon. Lucifer is not there. It's the King James that put it on there copying Jerome's Voggate. The word Lucifer never appears in either the Hebrew Bible or Laavdo, the Christian Bible. It's always stuck in the King James because Lucifer is the name, the Latin name for the planet Venus. Don't ask. And then uh Ezekiel 28 is talking about the king of Ty. It says it openly. And you poor Christians are being taught this and fed this in church for three hours straight. And all of it is incompatible with the Hebrew Bible. >> It sounds like it's almost incompatible with some the Christian Bible in a way too. Why why did why did the Christian leaders when they were putting Christianity together and they were constructing it? Why did they seek paganism as a place to have a reference point to these ideas of a power greater than God or like we were saying like a a beautiful image of a man. Why do they go towards paganism specifically? I I know a little bit of this answer, but um I know that there is a pagan religion that had a a a deity that was born of a virgin. Um there's another one that had one that you know died in the way that that they say Jesus died. But but what was bringing them to this? What was happening in the world that they were like yes let's use paganism as this place our reference point to construct this Christian religion. >> I'd like to take a journey with you very briefly into the ancient world because their world didn't make sense. So well in order to understand the ancient world we have to really divorce ourselves from the world we occupy and navigate in and enter into a very different kind of world. In that world suffering and death was ubiquitous. People died for no apparent reason. They didn't know what cancer was. They didn't understand what an infection was. In the ancient world people were most likely to die of infections in their mouth. They didn't understand. They didn't know what they didn't understand microbiology. They didn't know what an infection was. They didn't know what cancer was. I married a girl and three months later she's dead. I don't know what happened. She was beautiful. This was the ancient world. A woman had children and then most of them didn't make it to adulthood and mothers died on the birthing table. It was just a world where there were broken bodies. Even if you ma if you managed to survive, people lived with suffering constantly. And not only were people broken for no reason, it didn't seem but wheels were broken. Everything was broken. People suffered miserably. I'm not going to ask you this question, but I I say this to the viewer. If modern medicine did not exist, would you be alive today? You certainly at the very least are not sure or you're saying I'd be dead, right? So nothing should be very foreign to you. So the world is a very broken place in the ancient world. This is how they thought. It's just like the 7th day Adventist church. They they were a a millinarian Christian group that emerged out of a kind of thinking that was shaped in the 19th century thei in the United States. So this was the thing in the ancient world. Now one other part about the ancient world. They glanced at the sky at night and they saw something that most of us cannot see. And then they saw the stars. It was very plain to them because there wasn't all this light pollution which we're used to because we live in cities. There's so much light. We can't see anything. We can just see the moon basically. But if you ever travel out to a place where there isn't, you could see the stars and they observe them. and they actually needed them to navigate uh because they didn't have cell phones. The art of reading the sky has become obsolete. It's intriguing but it's obsolete for us. It doesn't we don't need it anymore. We have all the information more information than we can use all and two is we can't see it. But one of the things the ancient world noticed it was very obvious to them is every star in every constellation was exactly where it was supposed to be. You know, watches just a a mechanical system that keeps time is a relatively modern invention. They would look they would know from the time they would know time of the year. Everything moved with precision. Imagine that. So the world around them was broken. The world around them was filled with injustice, sickness, and death and horrible suffering. Horrible. And conversely, in stark contrast, the celestial world was perfect. And they came to the following conclusion that the celestial world was created by a good God, a perfect God. And this world was created by a god, no doubt, but a broken god. In middle platonic thinking, a demiurge, which is kind of a not a very good god, a broken god. And really the whole this is whatnosticism is and the goal in life is how to escape this broken world and to enter into the world of the true of the gods to escape the this broken world. That's why the idea that yeah you you have to sleep with someone in order to have children but really this all everything goes on this world is really disgusting girls. That's why celibacy is extolled as a virtue in the Christian Bible. Where would they get that from? You couldn't get that from Tanakh. But you would get it from Paul says this in his letter to Corinth that he says to other people. He says, "Look, if you're a virgin, if you be like me, find don't. If you if your passions are so there, it's better to be married than to burn." So he says, "If you can't control yourself, then it's better to get married." What a crazy cycle. Babelis, I apologize for being but it's just so because what they viewed as everything of this world. I mean Augustine suggested that married couples if they're not trying to have children they should sleep apart. And to them although Mary was conceived in the Orthodox church they literally hold that although Mary was conceived from a man and a woman but it was passionless. They had no pleasure from that experience at all. It's a very sick world, a very diseased world. In the Torah, there's actually a mitzvah for a man to bring his wife pleasure and he and he takes this promise on when giving his wife a kubu. It's like so but that's what everything of this world is garbage and and incidentally if you think this is just Paul in the gospels Jesus we're told extols the virtue of celibacy. What? So this is so alien again. Is there a outer veneer of Judaism? Yes. But all these are pagan ideas that this world is governed by a lesser god. This is the way people in the ancient world thought. Was there a great god Jupiter or Zeus? There was. Was he perfect? Absolutely. Did he want anything to do with you? He doesn't even know who you are. Did you pray to Zeus or Jupiter? They never did. You prayed to a little local god. There were state ceremonies to the great gods. But God was so detached, you needed, and this is the key point. Now you're going to grab grasp everything because we're going really deep here. If the great God is so perfect and you're nothing, you're a filthy dirty sinner. Romans 3 4 5 I don't have to tell you that. 3 through six, you'll lose your brain. So if that is indeed the case that the great God is perfect and you're garbage, you're a filthy sinner and you occupy a body that's grotesque, then obviously there has to be some sort of mediator between you and the great God. And that's exactly what Paul says in 1 Timothy 2:5. He says there is one God and one mediator between God and men, and that's the man Jesus Christ. I'm not making this up. That means that's exactly what Paul is saying. That means if God is inaccessible and you're a filthy sinner that can't earn your way into heaven through your works, everybody who's ever gone to church has heard what I'm saying. Now, it's only the Jews that grew up in Brooklyn have no clue what I'm talking about. But all the Christians are going, "Yes, listen to this rabbi. He knows what he's talking about." Okay. So, that Jesus is the mediator. What does that mean? He's the bridge between the great God and you, the disgusting person that's broken and is a a servant and a slave of the devil. Full stop. >> Yes, that that is literally what we were taught. And I remember that verse um was it was one of the hard ones that I had to kind of break down when I was moving to Judaism because I'm like but I I need to have this mediator. I can't I can talk to God, but it's not the same. There needs to be this buffer, this relationship, this this bridge between myself and this great God. And what I love so much about Judaism especially I'm really connected to breast of Judaism um and his it's a it's a breast of Judaism is a sect of of of Jews and one of the teachings there that this rabbi Rabbi Nakman of breast he taught that over 200 years ago was this idea of this prayer called his bod where you go out into the forest or you just pray to God one to one it's like having a face tof face conversation with him there's no prayer book. There's no intermediator. There's there's just you and him face to face. And I always was looking for that in Christianity. And I I felt wrong. I felt like, okay, I have to pray. Oh, g bring make make sure that within the same 20 minute prayer um that I'm talking to to Jesus, the Holy Spirit, you know, to God, like all three of them. Um, but when all that noise settled down and when I was able to be like, "No, I'm not I'm not broken. I can have a direct face-to-face relationship with God. Um, and I can talk to him like he's not like he is my best friend. He is he is the one that knows me the most and he wants a relationship with me. He doesn't want anything else in a relationship for me." That's what I love again so much about Brussel facetus is that it teaches that God just wants your heart. he wants your relationship. And and one of the beautiful things that I have to say is that I did experience that a little bit in Christianity, but with again all the buffer of, you know, the Trinity in there. And when I was coming to Judaism, I knew this was right because I'm like, I know deep down in my heart that God wants a relationship with me. And I was taught it in a different form. But when you experience that, God wants a relationship with you. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. You have the same issues and problems as everyone else in this world. But he is desiring a relationship with you and him. >> I want the viewers to know this. Rabbi Nman who lived roughly 200 years ago um he wasn't inventing a new religion or anything like that but he just exemplified and able to codify ideas that are in Tanakh about a personal relationship with God that Hashem is close to you. seek him and you find him and he just was a great teacher like Daniel a blessed memory was a great teacher the children of Israel as Isaiah was so nah just codified ideas that are all beautifully latent it's very I just just want to say this it's intriguing that in Isaiah 45 in it is very famous why because that chapter begins with that Cyrus God says is my anointed in that he's going to tell he's going to tell the Jews to go back and build a second temple to leave Babylon and go into the land of Israel. It's very famous. He calls him my anointed. Now, God chose someone who is an idol worshipper. And he actually says in that same chapter, don't question why I'm using such an odd person to bring about a redemption. But God always is using some odd ciruitous way to get us through a wilderness, to get us to the promised land. And he says, "Don't question this." He doesn't know my name. And then Isaiah goes on a full frontal assault on Zorashianism, which was the religion of Cyrus. Cyrus was Persian. Zorashianism and a fairly ancient religion was his religion. That's why in Isaiah 45:7, please Christians look it up for yourself. I form light. I create um darkness. I created evil. I the Lord do all these things. Ra literally evil. By the way, many of the Christian Bibles don't like that that God created evil. It's unbelievable because it says literally God created evil. So some of the some of the translators, what do they do? They mistransate the tax. It actually says ra which means created rah. What does rah mean? Evil ra simple root rah. It's all over the place. But they don't like it because God in Christian theology can't couldn't have created evil. Right? So what did they do? What do they do? This will your brains will explode out of your head. If you open up many translations like as example the New International Version, they change the translation to not ra which means bad but rather disasters. I'm not kidding. Like I created earthquakes or volcanoes. I'm not kidding. I'm not making it up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there are translations that get it right like the American Center. Many of them do. But many of them can't handle it because God created evil. Which it says openly or we say in our prayers every day, I created peace and I created evil. Says it openly. I the Lord created all of it. But the that for the and we say that in we have a blessing where we say that it's based on this passage. God says I create evil. But the Christians don't know what to do with this cuz God did not create evil. Evil is a product of the devil. You follow? So it changes like the NIV. A lot of them translated. And I mean the King James does get it right. Many of them just they they literally I'm sorry. I apologize. They rape the text. There's no other way to say it. They literally they make the text say things that just are not there. So he creates earthquakes. That's not what it says. Ra means evil. Now, here's we're going to go to a very holy place. I want to just lock it up with this. It's really why does Isaiah attack Zorastianism? Now, you figured out the answer already here in Isaiah 45:7. Suddenly, the full attack on dualism that there's a a good God and this bad god, right? Like 2 Corinthians 4:4, like Satan is the Lord of this world. The reason why it's there is because it's attacking Zorassium, the religion of Cyrus. It's so brilliant. It's unbelievable. It's so delicious. You can lose your mind on this. So God God first says, "I'm choosing Cyrus." Why do you choose Belelffor? Why is Trump sometimes is a little odd? Why do you do it? Why not? Don't ask me why. I use unusual people. Why this person? I don't don't ask. This is my plan. Don't ask me. And by the way, as long as we're talking about Cyrus, Zarassium is wrong. It's evil. I create evil. Not the bad god. It's that's why I pray that you, the viewers, would study Tanakh, drink it. No, there's not one letter extra. It's all meal. And the great rabbis of in recent times Ezra of Nakman of bless blessed memory and many other sages they're not creating new religions to have a personal relationship with God. There's actually a mitzah in the Torah. I'm just going to say this because I want to I love what you said. I just want to emphasize there's a mitzvah in the Torah to worship one true God. There's many mitzvah that but and the separate mitzvah to love Hashem. It's a mitzvah is a mitzvah 16. There's another separate mitzvah to have the vus with hashem to to be completely interconnected the almighty blessed be his holy name. The we were blessed with great people who are regular people who emerge to be great not just scholars but great human beings who are our inspiration who are able to codify and help hold our hands but they're not introducing anything new. They are really simply like saturating so we can see all the beautiful colors of not only the physical but of the spiritual. And may we through this these kinds of great teachers and the prophets of Israel to whom we are all grateful. Uh may we see the coming of the true Messiah, not a false messiah, a true Messiah quickly in our time. >> Amen. Rabbi, thank you so much. I I said it before, but I do believe that you are one of Messiah's um right-hand man. You are doing that. You are bringing that in. And um yes, you need to accept that. That is true because without without voices like yourself who are excavating our own Torah and excavating the Christian Bible and helping Jews who are stuck or or trapped or just unknowing, not even in a place of just they came across Christianity and it spoke to them and you're helping them bring them back. Um, this is Messiah energy. This is what each person needs to do. We all have a role. We all have a task to to shine light and then whoever those truth seekers are, they will find it and they will find this podcast. They will find your your teachings and your websites. They will be inspired. Um and that's all we can hope for really. And so I really really thank you so much for giving such a so much clarity um to me and our viewers on um the messianic era and the questions and the the conversations that we had. This is this is a this is a delicious episode and um yeah again and thank you so much for your time and for your dedication to helping Jews who are who are lost in Christianity and and finding their way home. >> Thank you so much. If you enjoyed this program, please like and subscribe. Nasa so Oh.