🎙️ Episode 19: The Investor Who Beat Wall Street—and the Poker World Series

Imagine for a moment that you could sit down with the director of income strategies at Alliance Bernstein. And that fellow is also the world champion in poker. Fascinating conversation this week on Jewish Grit. We're here today with Garishan Distinfeld, director of income strategies, World Series poker champion. Is that true? >> I I won a prestigious tournament, one of the big tournaments uh back in 2021. Also made the final table of what's known as the main event in 20120. >> Wow, that's impressive. I don't think I've interviewed anyone that can do anything with poker. I've interviewed a lot of successful people, but not in that realm. I want you to think back on the last two decades of your career. And I want you to think about a moment where you had to gather a lot of Jewish grit, inner strength, and what that moment was and how you got out of it. >> I'm a frequent guest on uh CNBC and Bloomberg TV, and I was on Bloomberg TV two weeks after October 7th. You know, it was, if people remember, it was the it was the morning, it was a couple weeks after where, you know, the media was reporting that Israel blew up a hospital, which was total fabrication. Um, and you know, the host of the program, who I know very, very well, he was basically playing the both sides thing and on the news in the morning, which I understand why. I messaged him. I said, "You and I both know the real story here. There's no way that Israel's at fault here." And he wrote back to me, "I know. I know. Whatever." Anyway, then he literally calls me. He's on live during a break. He calls me and says, "Okay, I I just want to make sure your head is in the game, and we're going to talk about investments today. we're not going to talk about Israel. I said, I'm good. But, you know, the the you know, the the overwhelming need to want to say something in that moment, which I didn't I didn't address it. It's not really my place. >> That's a powerful moment because I think that a lot of us after October 7th, like I I know my team at work, we had a hard time just working. We could we just couldn't. And people I I noticed like a few times just like people were crying like, you know, and someone was just crying like So, yeah, I think it did take I think the Jewish people took us a lot of grit. Gian, tell us a little bit about um the last 20 years of your career. You're in the world of finance, I'm assuming. Are you with the same company for >> Yeah, I've been with the same company for over 27 years. >> Wow. >> So >> that's that's original. >> I started at Sanford Bernstein. So Alliance Bernstein is a combination of two companies. Alliance Capital bought Sanford Bernstein in the year 2000. I started at Bernstein. people might know the name Zman Bernstein who was a big philanthropist and uh very interesting larger than life type character. >> Um so yeah and I've I've been there for yeah 27 plus years. >> How did you guys cope with some of the very serious uh challenges in the markets whether it was the crashes or the dips or the struggles? >> Yeah. Well, you know our job is to be steady in the face of that. It's hard uh emotional. We know that most markets if you're investing sanely return you know well above average inflation above inflation returns over time and we have to deliver that for our clients over the long term and you know the blips tend to be more opportunities than they are but at the same time when they happen right nobody wanted to invest in the middle of the global financial crisis or the European debt crisis 2011 or during COVID those are very scary times but um you know right now in my view it's actually a little bit harder where most things in the market are fairly to overvalued. It's hard to find investments that over the long run will deliver the same kinds of returns that investors have gotten gotten used to over the past three decades. >> How many what percentage of your company is Jewish? >> Was probably larger a few years ago. We're based in New York. We have offices in 30 different countries around the world, 20 different cities in United States, but you know, we had most of our employees in New York. Five, six years ago, we moved a large portion of our people to Nashville, Tennessee. So you can imagine that that there aren't a lot of Jews in that population, although there are some. It's probably somewhere in 5 to 10% range. You know, since October 7th, I think the Jewish doesn't matter observant or not observant. We we've had we have a you know, called Jewish days of understanding. We have Zooms that are led by by people and and just, you know, there are definitely some people I didn't even know were Jewish that have appeared on these things. So there's been more of a connectivity, I think, since then. take us into the world of poker. How does a guy who's making sound financial investments for people get into a world of well risk? >> Yeah. Well, I I deal in risk. Um so, look, the the poker thing is first of all, I want to be very clear. I'm not in favor of gambling in general. Uh I I discourage it. I tell people not to go into it. And for most people, poker is actually not appropriate. I don't play poker all the time. I play one week a year, literally in Las Vegas. I viewed it as a challenge. It has a lot of similarities to investing, dealing with incomplete information and other things. And you know, I I I'd watched some on TV growing up and stuff and, you know, always wanted to win one of these, a World Series of Poker Bracelet. There only about 2,000 of them that have ever been awarded. It was incredibly unlikely that to to win it, but it's something that's possible. I wanted to I'm I've done a lot of things in my career at work that people said couldn't be done or impossible. That that motivates me. So, I started a school in in Tene, New Jersey that people said couldn't be done and and I did it. There's a fine line between impossible and improbable, right? Like impossible I say is I could uh hit golf balls all day long, I'm not going to be on the PGA tour. And if I played, you know, LeBron James a thousand times, one and one in basketball, he beats me all a thousand times. I never win. So, poker is is the kind of activity where there's a lot of skill involved, but there's also a lot of randomness involved in the short run. So am I as good as the top professional players in the world? Not even close. But I can compete with them and have a chance to win. And you know one So I I had two successes. The first was actually during COVID which the what's known as the world the main event which was the world championship of poker was played mostly online until the final table in Vegas which I I made. Um, and I decided at the time, I'm not even sure exactly how it happened, that, you know, I wanted to make as as big a kid as Hashem as possible while doing this sanctification of Hashem's name, meaning giving giving Jews a good name. I I would say more than anything, but it's also just in line with my values. I said, look, I I I'm coming full circle now. I said, I don't believe in gambling, so why do I do this? I don't For me, it's not gambling. For me, it was entertainment. I do very very well. I'm I'm fortunate enough to be able to give a lot of charity. So for me, you know, this was a challenge. I expected to go into it losing X amount of money. I spend whatever it is a year on it that it's like it's like entertainment for me. It wasn't going to change my life losing the money. So since I wasn't doing it for the money, I said, you know what? Why don't I just give anything I I I make if I if I'm lucky enough to make money, only about 5% of poker players make money. I will give it all to charity. And maybe that's why God was on my side. But um I I I finished seventh in that World Championship event in 2020. But the next year I came back and played in another event with 800 people that I won this at. And >> how much did you win? >> Uh and that one was 204,000. Yes. I donated all of it to charity. And uh look, my my wife and I have been blessed. We have financial means. We we we thankfully are able to give a lot of charity to start with. So I didn't need the money. C >> can you take us back a little bit to your professional career? Where was your first job and how did you get it? My first job was at Lehman Brothers and I got it through YU. I didn't really put a lot of time into a job search or anything. And I it it was just it was a back office type job. It was very boring. I I wasn't into it. So I knew soon afterwards that just wasn't wasn't for me. And you know then I knew someone who knew someone who knew someone that had an inn at at Bernstein and they hired me. Great story. Um I think it's a great story. The the guy who hired me, I was 22 years old, right? The interviewer goes to me, okay, so I'll be honest with you. I like you very much, but I have you and I have one other candidate. So other candidates been doing this exact job for 20 years. You have been doing it for zero years. You're barely out of school. Why in the world should I hire you? So without batting an eyelash, I said, because I'm much cheaper than him. He laughed. He gave me the job. And the best part of the story was he came he he knocks on my door like four or five months into the job >> and says, remember the conversation we had about I could have hired someone else? He goes, "I made the right decision." >> Entry level, I'm assuming. >> Entry level. Very entry level. Yeah. >> And then how do you slowly but surely climb the ranks? >> You always need a little bit of masle, a little bit of luck in your career. Um, you climb ranks when something happens. Usually something happens means there's some turmoil, someone leaves. And every opportunity I've gotten was really just something happens. So, you know, I got I got my I was I didn't really start on the investing side initially. I got my first chance in early 2000. But what really made it was Alliance bought Bernstein and that team liked me so they just took me on the team. So that was the first break I got. Then look, I I did some interesting things. I thought outside the box and I've always kind of pushed the envelope in my career. And then when there was, you know, the head of of that business uh left to go take another opportunity in 2006, I at the ripe bold age of 31 was put in charge of the business, which um which is very unusual. So, but I I there was some troubles in the business, but I I I I turned around our performance. I we raised a lot of money and uh I did that for a number of years and then um I took over a larger responsibility. But then then the head of fixed income alliance currency left in 2018 and I was given the co-head job of fixed income which is we managed about 300 billion in assets of the firm's 800 billion. >> A nice chunk of change. >> So it was a it was a nice job. So I did that for six years and then you know re more recently in the past couple of years I've kind of just taken a step back from that and just went back to managing you know a pool of the money about about 60 billion of it and just not having to deal with some of the headaches you have running running the entire business but yeah I've had a very fortunate career I've had people come after me I I uh I could have left to go to many other places but the company has been very very good to me I've been loyal to the company uh it's a very employee friendly type place. It was It was good. It was no problem being a Jew there. No problem being an observant Jew there. So, I've been happy to have spent my entire career there. I suspect you never know, but I suspect I will end my career there as well. >> I'm assuming that is part of your responsibilities in the company you hire and fire. Is correct? >> Yes. >> I know many of our students and our viewers are people who are just getting their first job or and they're trying to position themselves to to be marketable or market themselves. What are some things that you look for when you're trying to hire fresh talent? Uh when you're sitting at the table and got someone across from you, what are you looking for? >> Yeah, look, I think so many of the of the hard skills have become commoditized over time. We mostly talk to very smart people, people that are good at math, people that are good at reasoning. We're looking for the intangible. We're looking for those people that like are just intellectually curious, think outside the box, embrace technology. You know, one of my a lot longer topic, one of my pet peeves is how people think AI is going to replace everything. It's been happening since the industrial revolution. Technology has always replaced people and people have moved on to bigger and better things and that's going to happen here, too. So, you know, what what I often say to to young people at the company is a measure of your success is going to be do are you leaving the job that you have right now when you take the next job in a better place than it was when it started? Did you improve upon it in some way? um did you make it more efficient? Did you make it more profitable? Whatever whatever it may be. So, I think a lot of a lot of the softer skills, you know, the the the being able to communicate well, um being personable, being someone we think we could put in front of clients, just coming and saying, "I have a high GPA at a good school and I majored in economics and I'm really, really smart." That's like kind of baseline these days. It needs something to have a little something extra. What do you wish you knew when you were first starting your career, your married life, uh, raising children that you know now? >> I I I wish I fully appreciated that my kids literally watch every little thing that I do. You know, it's it's so true what they say that, you know, the best way to educate your kids is not through lecturing them. It's through them observing your actions. So I I I guess I didn't I didn't fully appreciate also, you know, this is a common thing. You know, realize that my parents were right about a lot of things and the same thing my kids think that I'm wrong about, I'm really right about now. >> Talk to us a little bit about your daily schedule. >> So when I worked in New York, uh I got into the office very early. I used to go to uh 6:15 uh morning prayers uh on the Upper West Side. I drove in from New Jersey, left my house at like 5:50. Uh, I got to the office around 7 and usually would stay till between 5:30 and 6:30. So, it was that's when I wasn't traveling. Now, I have a little bit different schedule. I actually I move I move to Florida and I commute to Nashville where I'm there Monday to Thursday most weeks. So, there's a little bit different there. I'm in the office very early, too, because it's we work New York hours. So, there I'm in the office before 7 a.m. local time, which is before 8 a.m. New York time. Uh, what do I find time for? Um, find time for various community projects. Uh I believe it or not I don't play any poker. Like I said I I'm an avid back gammon player. I'm a kind of obsessive. I play a lot online. I go to I've gone to tournaments. It's not doesn't the prestige of poker has. There's no gold bracelet for winning a tournament. >> You know for many people their definition of success as their career changes as their family situation changes changes. I'm curious in in your life you know you look back over the last 20 some years um in your career and your family has your definition of success changed and if yes how has it changed? If not, what is your definition of success? >> Success when I was younger meant making a lot of money. >> Success now I I I you know, thankfully again, I've been blessed. I have all the money I need. Um success is is more what's what's the meaning in my life? What am I giving back? What am I doing with the fact that God blessed me with so much u material ability and the ability to to use my time also? What am I doing with that time? Trying to pass down to my kids. Look, my kids could have got done many different things in the summers and for the most part they've volunteered. They've gone and volunteer programs in in Israel and and elsewhere. The word for love in Hebrew is ahava and aa the root is hav to give. You get more satisfaction and you ultimately love something more by giving more to them. I'll tell you success in my career, believe it or not, is not about making the extra dollar anymore. The thing I get the most joy out of is seeing people rise to the occasion. people that I've either hired or mentored that do great things within the company that gives more satisfaction than anything. And you know, when it comes to a legacy um of just from a career perspective, I want to I want people to I hope people remember me fondly, but they uh they were impacted by me and they continue to do great things long after I'm gone. >> What makes you most proud of being a Jew? I I I think the fact that you can go anywhere in the world and have a connection with a person >> if you had an an audience of our entire constituency 70 to 80,000 students and young professionals and you're they're all in one massive theater uh Metife Stadium and you could tell them one thing what would you tell them? >> One that your integrity is everything and related to that everyone is watching you. If you are a Jew, people rightly or wrongly are going to associate your actions either positively or negatively with Judaism and the Jewish people. So there's a spotlight on everyone. So always carry yourself with integrity and always strive to put the Jewish people by your actions in the best light possible. >> Fantastic. I think from my perspective, this was a great investment of time and I hope you feel that way as well. Thank you so much. to wish you continued and success in all of your very beautiful pursuits. >> Thanks for having me. >> Thank you for listening to Jewish Grit, an Oly mentorship podcast. At Oly mentorship, we believe that everyone needs a mentor. What better way is there to tap into your personal and professional potential than with a Jewish mentor at your side. Learn more at oli.org/mentorship. Don't forget to keep listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.