🎙️Episode 18: Can AI Replace Marketers? with Tzivia Cohen

This week on Jewish Grit, we're going to be sitting down with Civia Conn, CEO of 14 Minds, a marketing strategist who built her own business from the ground up. Civia shares the grit behind her business, what it took to grow, and all of the challenges that she had to overcome as she built her marketing agency. A powerful story of her courage and her growth. You do not want to miss this. Listen this week on Jewish Grit. Hi Sevia, thank you so much for joining us. >> Thank you for having me. >> So can you tell everybody a little bit about you, what you do? >> My name is Civia Cohen. I live in the five towns and I run a marketing agency called 14 Minds. I've been running it for over a decade now and it's been through a lot of iterations. Um done different type of projects, worked with different type of clients. Um, for many years we worked with nonprofits and currently serving nonprofits and missiondriven businesses with campaigns and a lot of consulting and strategy work. >> Can we go a little bit deeper into like what type of specific marketing you support? So, a nonprofit comes to you or a missiondriven business comes to you and how do you support them? What do you do? >> Sure. So, I'm a strategist as at heart. Um, so I always go really to the big picture and try to help them figure out what the big moves are. Many times they come with a project and then also a list of problems like foundational big picture issues that are causing really big problems in their growth and in their day-to-day and then they'll say okay and we want to do this project. So I'll usually say to them okay this project sounds cool like how do you think it's going to help and that's starts the wheels turning and then sometimes we'll do the project but we'll also figure out how we can incorporate some of those bigger pictures. Usually it's around branding or messaging, positioning, um the things that really hold an organization back and sometimes we'll just do the strategy when we have clients that are open to do things like exciting like that and we'll just help them figure out the big picture and it's the best thing when you see like the light bulb go on and they really get it. So that's what I love the most. >> So how did you get into this? >> So I started off as a graphic designer. So I went I got my undergrad degree in that and I started working in it. Um, and then kind of as I was doing it, I realized I really loved the marketing piece of it, even more than sitting down and doing the nitty-gritty design work. So, I actually went back to school. I ended up getting an MBA in marketing. And from there, worked a whole bunch of different jobs, but my heart was always in starting my own business. Like, I knew that this was what I really, really wanted to do. Took a long, long time to build it up. I went from working full-time to working part-time and along the way building up clients on the side. And it was only when I really felt like I had a business, I quit and I worked for myself. And then after a long time, I hired a part-time employee and it just grew really slowly from there. >> Wait, so let let's go into that moment right there because I think we've all had you know a career and then you know our 9 to5 and then you kind of like pivot into your own. So what was that moment like? >> So I wish I could say I remember a moment. Um I don't remember like the day it happened. I guess it was because it was so gradual. I just know that I hustled. Like I remember um when I did quit that last steady paycheck, I remember saying like, "Okay, I'm all in." And I walked into stores and I asked to speak to the manager. I cold emailed. I asked all my friends and family. So it was a really really gradual process. And I think it even took me a while to be able to say like I have a business like I have an actual business versus like oh I'm a freelancer, I have a hobby or whatever it is. >> Um so it was a really gradual transition. I never took on any risk. I never took on any debt. I went really slowly and cautiously. Um, I did make a lot of mistakes. I'm not going to deny along the way. Looking back, there were things that I wish somebody would have told me, but I think it was meant to be that I learned them the hard way. Um, you know, the business has been different sizes and had done different kind of projects. I think that it helped me to do it gradually because I was able to really learn. No one can really prepare you for the life of running your own business like and if they would have, I probably would have ran for the hell. So, that's the truth. But I love it. I've I've always loved it. So, how do you market yourself as a marketer? Like, do you ever find that challenge >> the worst? It's like the shoemakers kids have no shoes. So, I mean, there's two issues. There's the problem of just finding the time. Client work always takes precedence. I remember so many years I would like sit down with my team and this is the 14 minds marketing plan and it like would get buried at the bottom of the pile. So, that challenge and the challenge of like getting over my own imposttor syndrome saying like I can or cannot show myself in this way. Um, I really learned over the years to find what works for me, like to really pick a path that I just feel really comfortable with because I realized like anytime I would try to do certain things that like it looked like were working for other people but didn't feel like me. It didn't go anywhere. I felt uncomfortable. I looked uncomfortable and I think that people realize that. So, I found different things over the years. Um, the biggest thing for me has been writing. I'm a big writer. I love to write. So, I've written emails and articles and newsletters. I posted so much on LinkedIn which was a huge piece for me early on. Um it really built up a network and I had people on LinkedIn who just read my content and referred me and I was shocked because I would get a call from someone who would say, "Oh, so and so from LinkedIn sent me to you." And I'm like, "I've never met this person in my life." Wow. >> And they really felt like they knew me because I was showing up there regularly and I was just being me. How do you deal with the duality of privacy? Like you know not only with your clients which are you know you have confidentiality agreements with your clients right but you might have like learn something really good by like an interaction or by you know a strategy or something like that right you want to show like look they came to me with this problem and I was able to solve it but you can't really do that because of conf confidentiality and then how does privacy play out in your own personal life of what you feel comfortable sharing or not sharing. So with both sides of the question, I have always eroded on the side of caution. Like if something inside of me is saying it could backfire, even if the it's like a 1% chance, I'll just stay away from it. With client work, I usually found you can change enough details that you still get the main point across that you want to get and no one will recognize themselves. So I've definitely done that over the years, just kept it vague or just say a client versus like the specific. Um even when I didn't think the client would mind, sometimes I felt like it would be a little exploitive for me to like go plaster what I did when they paid me to do that, like it was their work. So, I really tried to be very cautious and keep most of my promotion about just the topic, the expertise, maybe less about the specific examples. And then on one-on-one client calls, like if I was on a sales call where I knew it was just speaking to that person, I I would share real stories about actual projects because that I felt in that setting that that that's okay. Um, in terms of my personal life, I always go with my gut. Like I'm very into like your intuition knows what should and shouldn't be said. Uh, I kept my private life for the most part off of LinkedIn. like small things like I posted this this week that I started working from home. That was a big life change, but I felt like it was very relevant. I tend not to post like irrelevant things. I personally feel uncomfortable when people I know in real life will come over to me and say like, "Oh, I saw that on LinkedIn." So, if I would be bothered by it, I'm going to keep it to myself. Um, and yeah, I think like don't forget about the real world because that's how you can develop real relationships. and off of LinkedIn, I've always had work relationships that I've like we have real talk behind the scenes and they know me and they know the real story and like I'm more comfortable that way. >> I want to go back a second because you said something that was really interesting that you know you were a graphic designer and then you went into doing creating your own business. Sounds like you didn't go to school for this for business. >> So I have an MBA. I think that what it got me the most was credibility. Okay. I think as a young Jewish woman in a man's world to be able to say I have an MBA made people think twice. They were like oh you have an MBA. They weren't expecting that from me. So I think it gave me a lot of credibility. It did I did learn I learned accounting. I learned calculus. I learned a lot of things but the real work was on the in the field. >> Did you lean on any mentors and how has mentorship shaped you? >> Yeah. So you know what along the way just the universe was taking care of me and God was taking care of me and I met the right people at the right time. Um the first mentor I had it was so interesting. I reached out to this like fledgling magazine and I just said like hey you need help with graphic design are you interested and they're like yeah so we partnered I started designing for this magazine and the investor in the magazine was like can we talk and he ended up being my first mentor he sent me tons of clients I don't even really know what he got out of it he really like in in a sense I worked for him for a bit but he really started me and then when that relationship sort of started dying out another relationship like came another opportunity and I did that for and it just like one thing kind of organically led to the other. I'm also a big reader. So I would say like in on the topic of mentorships, authors have been my mentors all throughout. >> How do you bring spirituality into what you do? >> So I'll be honest, it's only in the last few years that I even considered that question. And I found like midlife got a little bumpy for me and I had to start asking a lot of hard questions and the line between like business and spirituality completely disappeared because I just started like exploring different >> I I've always been Jewish and I was raised religious but I think I took a lot for granted and I started answering some of my own questions and attending different classes and getting different perspectives and just learning how much the world is created for me and all of the circumstances of my life are for me. And that thought is just it's calm. You can't do things when you're panicking and if you don't have like something to fall back on, you just it's survival mode. It's chaos. So for me, it's been a game changer to integrate it. And when I say integrate, I really mean it. >> So what do you do to integrate it? >> So I like go to classes now like 11:00 on a Monday. I will go to a class in like spirituality and mysticism. And there was a time like the thought of attending a class and not working at 11:00 a.m. on a Monday would have been just completely unthinkable. And now I can't get through the week without it. So, it's really it's added a lot to my life. >> Wow. And what other practices do you do? >> A little bit of everything. I'll be honest. I'm in a very exploratory phase. I have done um breath work and journaling. I started journaling in the morning um three pages a day and that's that's been like it's brings it all together. Work and family and spirituality, whatever's on my mind. That that's been um pretty big. I also started giving some of my own workshops in my house on spiritual topics. Um, I meet with like a small group of women every month and we talk about different challenges, not necessarily work, but everything. And that's also like very new for me. Like I would give workshops about marketing exclusively. >> How do you stay grounded in business, family, kids, clients, like I feel like, you know, you trade one boss for like five bosses when you have your own business. So, how do you stay grounded and keep everything a flow? >> So, what's really worked for me is having my own business. I answer it to myself. I think that gave me flexibility that if I needed to be somewhere at a certain time, I wanted to show up for my kids at a certain time. I was able to do that. And then I made up the time when it was, you know, at night. And did that mean yes, I worked on every vacation I've ever been on? Yes. Did it means I did it mean I answered emails >> after having a baby an hour before? Yes. Um, but that was a trade-off that I knew that I could make. So, I think you really have to know yourself like that. There's no solution. There's no having arrived. It's like it's a process, but if you know yourself, you know your capacity. I I have friends who run businesses that do things like I could never. Um, and they can push themselves. I know my limits. I know when I need to get to bed at night. I know what my kids need for me. And I will make sure that everything gets prioritize. Like, you know, if my kid needs to be taken for breakfast one morning and the client meeting has to get pushed off, it will happen. >> Um, and there's always a trade-off. You can't have it all. But I think if you're even asking the question, you have to rethink it. Like, that's not the right question. The question is like, what do you want? What are your values? What's important to you? So, that's what I I tried to go by. And my kids are a bit older now. has gotten significantly easier. I will say running a business with babies is will really push you to your limits. >> What happens when you have those goals, you have those ideas and you're on the right path and then all of a sudden a boulder comes and knocks you down, right? So, um where does your grit come from and can you talk about maybe some of the challenges that you face in growing your business? Um how you got over them? >> I made quite a few mistakes. I think one of the mistakes was what I now call like shiny object syndrome. like someone would come with like this really cool project and I just I like to be involved. I like to try new things and I would get excited and then I would look back and be like that was not a good business move. Um the biggest thing I I did wrong was try to grow too fast. I realized in hindsight like I don't know how I I let the ball drop but things were going amazing and I'm like let's double it and the revenue was flying in and at the end of the year I looked at my numbers and I was like wow. So, the hardest day in my business was January of 2024, I believe, and I fired half my staff and I called my husband sobbing. And I'm getting emotional now. And I said, I just let them all go. And I felt like the world's biggest failure. And it took me a really long time to build myself back up. My confidence was shot. I am a failure. What was I thinking? How did I let it get to this point? And I rebuilt. I did a lot of work on myself and on redefining my um definition of success. I realized what the team looked like when it was that big. I didn't love it and it was a difficult environment and now we're really really small. I scaled back even further. Um I do mostly consulting and strategic work. So I need very few team members and the team members I have that are like literally my sisters and it's working really really well for me and I just realized like I thought success was if you ask me what's my goal big office. It had a very specific vision. and it had glass and I sat behind it and my whole team sat in front of it and I realized that's not success. I now work from home alone. My team is virtual. Um I get to meet really cool people. I love what I do and I've really dug myself out from the hole of saying I failed. I I found what works for me. Um and you asked about grit and I think that I'm a grandchild of Holocaust survivors. So if there's anyone who knows grit, um it's us. And my grandparents came from Astros with nothing. My grandfather had multiple jobs. He built a amazingly beautiful religious family and he loved he was just a loving joyful man. And I think I got a lot from that of just the sense of like life can throw anything at you and it's how you react. It's it's on you. >> What advice would you give to a young professional who's looking to go either into marketing or to starting their own business. >> So I would really recommend working for other people before you start your own business. I did work in different jobs. Uh you learn a lot. You need to learn. There are people who are able to go straight into their own business. But I think that there's foundational skills that you can only get working in an office setting, working with people who are older than you and more experienced. So that's first of all, yeah, >> go out there, go into the real world, get experience, say yes to opportunities, take on free work. I did a lot of that. A lot of like proono, volunteer, friends and family just to get experience, just to get your name out there. Um, really find what you love and what speaks to you because that is where you'll be successful. like you can't just because it's something's supposed to work or something is hot now that's not a career path that's it's you know things come and go but your passion could sustain you um in terms of going into marketing it's a wild west out there like so the advice I would give is go all in on AI because that is where marketing is going it's changing the game by the minute um I think within probably two years marketing the landscape will be completely different jobs will be completely replaced by AI so I would definitely recommend commend that anyone even thinking about marketing first gets very very comfortable with AI read I listen to a weekly podcast just like getting in on the trends because you can't really keep up but at least you know where it's going so that's that's the future and also remember that at the heart it will always be relationships and people and that's never going to go away and it's become going to become even more important as AI takes over the world right so learn about being a people person and have relationships and psychology is a big piece of marketing so go explore some psychology I would say read read everything. I I read everything. So, keep reading. That that would be my best advice. >> I want to talk a little bit about AI because you just mentioned that that's the way marketing is going. >> So, it has been the most exciting transformation for me because around the time AI became super accessible was also around the time I was downsizing. And all of a sudden, the things that I needed all of those people to do, I could now do within minutes. >> So, interesting. >> So, so much of we do, let's say, is research and analysis. I can do insanely in-depth research and analysis within 5 10 minutes using chat GBT. You have to really know how to prompt it. You have to know how to work with it. You have to know how to engage it. You have to know how to push back. Um, and take everything with a grain of salt. What I tend to do is I check sources. I'll say, "Where'd you get this from? Show me." And go back because it does make things up and you have to be careful. But it's gotten a lot better since it first um chat with you is the one I use the most and it's gotten a lot better. But I can now do better faster work. So let's say even with my strategy clients in one strategy session with a little bit of prep before with chat GBT and a little bit of like followup afterwards I can give them four to six weeks worth of work. >> Isn't it amazing how like no like how the landscape has totally shifted from like 10 years ago when we were starting and you need all these people and now you just need this one platform that will support you and everything that you need and it gives you actually better results. >> Yeah, it's it's definitely better if you know how to use it, if you know what to tell it. the output is absolutely amazing. Um the the power is just it's it's unthinkable. And anyone who's like scared like oh is it gonna take over job? Yeah. But it's going to create so many new opportunities. You just have to be a little bit ahead of the curve. And the world is going to need thinkers. The world is going to need people who know how to have real relationships and not just robot relationships. So there's going to be so much opportunity. I'm only excited about it. It does not make me nervous at all. >> What makes you proud to be a Jew? >> Wow. So, like I mentioned before, I'm a grandchild of Holocaust survivors and I know that they went through hell and they worked really, really hard so that I could have been raised in a religious comfortable life. And I feel like I am of the generation that we're not being persecuted. We live comfortable lives. We have access to so much. And it is our job to really show the world what it means to be a Jew, to be a proud Jew, a successful Jew. And I really take that mission very seriously and to try to make a good impression everywhere I go and to feel the unity of just being Jewish, especially since October 7th. It's been so meaningful to me to like see how the world has turned against us and we've come together. I think that it's it's really important to me to keep perpetuating the the legacy that they left behind and use the resources that we have that they didn't. >> Thank thank you so much, Sevilla, for sitting down with me. >> Thank you for having me. It was so nice. Thank you for listening to Jewish Grit, an Ol mentorship podcast. At OLEM mentorship, we believe that everyone needs a mentor. What better way is there to tap into your personal and professional potential than with a Jewish mentor at your side? Learn more at oli.org/metorship. Don't forget to keep listening on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.