Ep. 63: The CIA of Lubavitch with Rabbi Avrohom Shmuel Levine

He says good morning. Good morning. How are you? Says fine. So the first thing says to him, "How did you like it yesterday?" Says, "What do you mean yesterday?" She says, "Oh, what are you talking about? What kind of impression there was? I was had a suffic if I should make a that you make when you see 600,000." He says, "And they're all his." >> As we enter the new year, secure your family's daily with Karen Hash founded by the Reb in 1953 under Mahel. Kashana ensures that every single day of the year, including that given in honor of Shabas will be given on your behalf. that I've urged everyone to enroll every family member, men, women, and children by contributing for each day of the upcoming year. It's the ultimate way to draw down continuous brahas for you and the entire family. Head over to karanhashana.com right now and sign up on behalf of your entire family beforeash. If you've been enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe so that others can enjoy it as well. In addition, if you've benefited in any way from a monk podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at.org/donate. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid. Our vibrant connection with the rebba and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Shalom. Rabbi lean. How are you? >> Shalom. >> Okay. Thank you so much. And all the way from appreciate it. >> Amen. Um so I would like to begin um who is 11 which leaven where do you come from where are your parents from start like that coincidentally I'm a usually living as a ley I'm a kayan anyway >> I bumped into I bumped into Rabi Bar from the library >> yesterday and I said one second I'm interviewing 11 are you related he's like no but what we have in common is that I'm not a Leian. He's not a cayenne. >> I am a kayan. He's not a >> You are a kay. >> Yeah, he's not a lean. >> He He's not a Leian. He is a Cayenne, right? Yeah. Sorry, I got it wrong. Okay, go ahead. >> Anyway, well, actually, I originate from a very literature family. My grandfather, my father's father was a Musm from Paul Shapiro from Valen. He was arrived in three different cities in Russia and Bellarus and Whitewash at that time in a place called Marupul. Marupulu Vazme and what is the I forgot the third one Marupul. Anyway, he was arro there and he was incarcerated because at this time of the ankid with the you know you weren't allowed to the seventh day and learn Torah in public or in private. It's like in the time of the fed and he said that as he told the the the officials there from the he said as long as people want to learn and I'm cannot forfeit my duty to teach them Torah and I will teach him Torah and for that he was incarcerated and I think he died in prison is at first uh his feet decayed they had to amputate both of his legs And that was Mr. for for now but before that he was the chief rabbi of can't I can't pronounce that name it used to be I meanlav at that time was okay so he was probably >> the rabbis's father >> yeah and he was a chief rabbi means that he had under his jurisdiction the villages or the small cities around him and one of those was I think Marupal where my grandfather was. So from time to time my grandfather would come to his house to discuss communal affairs and stuff like that. and he would stay at his house for a day or two and vice versa when Relevik would go visit Marupal he would stay at my grandfather's house. It's funny that although he was a liter and he was a mag it was like the like today like today he was you know >> I think the said there's no misnagom today. >> Yeah. Yeah. But at that time there was he was and he always used to tell me your grandfather although he was he was a literature but he was a honest person and the is that that he once came back my father told me he once came back from a visit from from he says he says that I think he says that his wife my my brother my father had a sister Leia and she and he came back and he said to to his wife he says you know we we should start thinking about's older son Ba you know what I want to bring out is that although he knew he was and he's a little but you know he he recognized the greatness of the reb even at that age I think he was 19 years old at the time >> but he recognized his greatness even at that age. >> Anyway, what happened was that now it's known that Bisha Masmid would go around from town to town to I think he was a Shadar and >> and he would also try to get Bam to go come to that time. So it was I think my father was it was after bumitz I think 15 years old I'm not sure you know that that bracket and it was autiskus lived that it was that mas came to wherever that was my ruple or yasma and it was so and he was in the shul of my grandfather which was not but he nevertheless he fained with the with the congregants there and he said I know if he took a lot of mashk at the time and all that he said to my father you have to come to you have to you should come to it would be like that's like to take out a diamond from from the mud something like that. Now my grandfather was adesis was in the other room learning gamar just kissed him and he heard that my father told me he didn't like it but it passed you know he didn't like it that that way anyway mas p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p p persuaded my grandfather to send my father to and my grandfather said in in Eison I would want you to go to Slabotka or to one of the other or whatever was at that time you know for the literacy but since now it's the war time and it's dangerous and all that so go to I just can't learn and if you know how to learn I don't know but and so that's why and he came to that's you know he came to to he was there years and he and these underground yeshivas at that time and he was there until 194. Oh, there's an interesting thing. There's one time that Reblik, my father says it's the Rebish Satan, but he he was a young child at that time. So, I think he got mixed up with Reblik. Anyway, whether it's Reblavic or the Remon of Satan, my father says he once came he once came to the shak's time and he was there and he came to sh and there was a >> to his father's show >> to his father show right >> and uh and there was a briset that morning and the members they didn't know anybody else they knew the ro so the mabad they were my grandfather sandos So he said no give it to you he rejected it and he says no give it to either or the reb whoever it was you know one of those two so that's it that was a nice bit you know coming from somebody from >> right right >> anyway so um at one time this was in 19 in 46 at that time when people when would go out from Russia through forge passports. You probably know that that >> the story with the shalon and >> Yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Right. Right. Shalon forge passport. >> The great the great escape. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh they went to Lmberg first. So it was a couple of weeks before that shalom was he wasn't registered to be there. What happened was ank caught my father and they tortured him. They knocked out 14 teeth. They tortured tortured him very much. They said >> 14. >> Yes. And they said how many teeth do you have? >> They have more than that but most of it. and and and and they told him that the reason we we arrested you is that we know we know that you know and we're looking for certain people gave him a list of people among the ones who met and oh and and and others from you know that time we know we're looking for them now we know you you you know where they are you're affiliated with them we're giving you two weeks. Two weeks to come back and tell us exactly where they are and if not we're going to shoot you and don't think you'll be able to escape because you'll be you'll be followed. My father told me he went out of there. He was sweating at night. He was crying and he's not going to be Malin. How could he, you know, somebody else? And he said he said like he said, I think if he gets out, he saves him from there, he'll be saying he'll say every day he'll say the whole something like that. He made some kind of an ed because I think that was it because I rem as I remember my father he would every day I would see him saying till. So what happened was that he came to he he already was married and my mother was pregnant with me at that time and he went down to the shalom and he hopped into one of those and they looked at him. he wasn't registered and they were afraid that he came to to sort of like spy on them and they wanted to throw him out and he said I'm not I'm not moving from here. The story I was told by he was there at the time he was there at the time and he was very adamant. He said I'm not leaving here until this day he doesn't I mean he never knew how he he escaped because he was told he was being followed. Okay, that's that's the end of the the period of uh Russia. >> So that's how he got to to the United States. >> Okay, he got the United States. Then he went to Ellis Island like everybody else, you know, and at first he went to Boston. I learned by Foggelman Phil Gordon in Worster Worster. first was in Boston and then in Chelsea place called Chelsea. From there he went to Worcester and I was in first grade or kindergarten there. >> So you were born in America >> and I was born I thought I was born in in in Austria that was on transit >> because Okay. >> Like in the in the DP camp. >> DP camp. Exactly. >> And I came and then he got a job in Louisville, Kentucky. And when I came by mitzvah and all that it was you couldn't it's not like today I hear there's yeshiva there yeshiva there today but at that time they didn't have any yeshivist there and it wasn't was more modern or modern orthodox and I came to m so I learned a day school there until the mitzvah and then he sent me to uh to New York and I was veteran indeed. So you went by yourself as a child. >> Well, he took me at first he he took me with the Greyhound bus, you know. >> I'm saying but you were living you living in the dormatory. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What year are we talking about? >> We're talking about now 196 62 6. >> Did you see the before then? >> Oh yeah. I stayed by somebody before that. I learned in another yeshiva on the east side before because they didn't have a place for me. So I stayed by Mushbah and he would go from time to time to visit. They would go to the brickens. He wasn't a babe, he was nardic and but his wife was a beah's sister. So he was uh acquainted with the with the Labavish community especially since his family was Labavage. So the big fabans or you know Tuskisliff he would go from the east side to Kat Heights at that time was Albany Terrace or no Avenue. One of those you know was before the river started Fabang the big fabang is in 770. So I remember just still on Kingston there was those trolley cars you know the buses you know. So the first fabbran that I came that I saw the reb it was before by mitzvah before mitzvah he I came and I saw the reb was I think it was I was 11 years old in 19 I came in it was the middle of a mimemer I how do I know because everybody was standing and that's the first time that I heard and saw the reban and it made a very big impression. I never saw a thing like that, you know. I didn't know what that was all about. And uh it did make impression. I didn't understand anything. But I still remember the Reb speaking. I don't remember what he said, but I remember his voice and his and it was very very you know it had it had an an emotional effect on me at that time. later on when I started going to Bedford. So, okay. So, I was in and we finished Batford in 1966, 1965 actually. >> You finished like the high school? >> Yeah. I didn't go to high school. I learned with I was there was a class after when everybody went to high school. Rabbalam gave a class on Sakabas. Every year another I was there and um then in 1965 when I finished Bedford in those days when you finished Bedford it was like the groups were divided into three. Some went to Montreal for a year or two and then go to 770. Some went to Newark for a year or two, then come to 770. Some went to Quakabad. Now I I was from those that went to Quakabad. Now my birthdays in Tamos. I was in the in Tamos. But in those days when you would go overseas to learn, you would go have a special with. So although six months ago as I was inas when we came from pass after passes I went into again and you well I don't want to jump you you remind me after I tell you about this what happened at chabas bracius by just let me finish that you so after shabas bracious I I came I went into the Reb for this and the Reb looks at the settle and I'm going to he says you're going he says to me you're going to say so I want to make a deal with you write to me every month and he looks up with me with a half a smile and he says and I don't mean you should write to me about the But tell me, write to me about what you're learning and preferably he says it should be that's okay and that's what I did and I and I so when I was there the first month of course I did that I never expected an answer but lo and behold I did get an answer I did get a reply the Funny thing is that every time every month that I sent in sent in a letter, I always got an answer. >> And okay, I'm going to come back to that general don't want to uh forget about a very interesting anecdote that happened. So I was braces before I left. In those days, they didn't break the the shoe yet. Now it's myston. That's already after the second time they broke the sh two times and now before that the 770 was almost like dollar you know it's very very narrow was very wasn't as wide as now. So when you stand by it there wasn't such a big at that time. So if you stand in vibr wherever you stand especially if you're close to the reb you could always hear if they weren't singing loud you could hear when people went up to the reb at that time they would go up to a reb more frequently it wasn't like in the last years only when you had a battle but that time everybody went over with his own battle and spoke or or whatever whatever it wants and say so I remember this distinctly I don't know if you ever heard there was a Dubinski he was a mas he was a masid was known to be a mas >> and I heard him and at that time the only there was only the contra of the of alf weren't out yet from I think just elephant something to anyway there was I don't remember exactly I think it was so it wasn't printed yet and I hear him going up saying and he asked the when are they going to print the you know all the so I remember that distinctly that anyway I I was in now now before I before I went to I was SW the my told me you should know you're going out there is an because he didn't send people you be very yeah he's aid and stay away from him or else you also become an I'm a you know a 16 17 year old naive I'm a naive I don't know from they tell me that. So I come to and I wasn't disrespectful. I would say hello and that but then I would I would stay I would stay far away. I wasn't one of his boys. You know that and I didn't have anything tried nothing to have anything to do with him. I think it was the second month I was there that I wrote to the Reb my monthly letter. He mentioned something. I asked him a question about innov the brainwashing that I had beforehand was doesn't exist and I started with him >> sometime >> and I must tell you they made a mistake about this man you could first of all you can see it now too see the reason they were against him they considered him anif because he didn't send people to to the rebba he would say before going to the reb you have to sit and learn and you know be be learn migras And then you can go. You can be you just go already, you know, do what do it do its thing. It's like that's way I I interpret it. But um but when I started speaking with him and getting close with him, I it wasn't at all as as they mentioned it because there were times when I didn't understand something in a an answer that the Reb one of the letters of the Reb wrote to me and I came to him to ask and he saw it was the Reb's letter. He said, "Just a moment." He would Well, he went with a he put on his hat. He went with he he had his kaput on anyway. Put on his hat and a gartle and his hat and I think he and he got up and he looked at it and doesn't do that. >> We also know now that this he was telling the Bakim not to come was because told him. >> Exactly. Exactly. Now I'll tell you an interesting thing. I said this many times and it's you know it it remained in my mind I remember it very vividly you see like I said I was there in 1965 I came to in Hebrew it's I came when I came there there were kuden Zagopin Garitza who else they're older older older guys today they're already you know they're older than me and I think they're in their 80s now but at that time that was the ka that was by the reba when I was then came back at that time kuses would come not on rash I think it was from Pes they would go from PES to PES they come back after PES anyway so uh when they were there there was certain I'm not going to say names but there were certain there were two bum of that before they went to the very very attached to almost like you So they were never by the reb. So he was like almost like they they very very attached. They had a year at all. They weren't all very respected and they they they swallowed every word that he said. They would sit next to and all that. When they by the apparently they were also brainwashed. So when they came back they like they distanced themselves from him completely. There was a certain group that would sit all the way in the back and never you know never never come to him. Now it was after that when they came back and he was he was very perturbed if you would speak in the middle of his or he would say every day 7:00 if you would speak make noise then that really that they that disturbed him very much and would could scream at you and all that. But these guys were all the way in the back and they were like ignoring him and his rubberans and they were speaking amongst each others and it made a noise cuz everybody's quiet and you hear he understood that they did this especially to demonstrate that they that they're ignoring him. First he didn't say anything but then it came to a point where you know he couldn't take it anymore. I mean there was really noisy very noisy and very disturbing he couldn't take it anymore and he got up stands up and he looks at them with tears in his eyes with tears crying crying and he says for me what do you want from me how do you expect for me to be a musher to the reb to our reb like to the frequ He wasn't he was crying in that and then suddenly as he saw you know you think he's down suddenly he he flips and a very angry tone he starts screaming and then but one thing I want to tell you no matter how much you think you're musha to the rebbit to our rebush to him 10 times more than you with what are you mush I'm 10 times more to him than you are. That was really something, you know, going back from crying and then that's really something. But coming back to that, you know, since we're talking about about Well, actually, I don't know what what to say first. Should I go back to the letters or talk about go back to letters? Okay. So like I said I used to get a letter all the time at that time the two years that I was in I was immersed mish immersed I was kazar shabas almost those long ones people tell me today you know they would sit there for 45 minutes and they just wait until I finish you know and I was really immersed in that when I started learning was son he would teach he was an expert in that he's told us that is the subus of of just like sub has every every in that's in in you'll find a minuscule in in inubis so too every Indian you'll find in since I wanted to you know to know what I'm talking about but so I decided what the heck so I I not public for myself I'm sorry I'm sorry he didn't say he said not the So I the whole show I I did B for myself and every I would finish you know maybe two pro it's very hard it's not like a regular m so I would finish two pro and I would write that to the rabbit and all that okay so I remember when when the I think there was other tough tough phrase of Zion. Yeah. Other 12 of Zion that he would send at that time I didn't know but like like I told you I was immersed I didn't know anything about the outside world. Somebody would tell me then that I would end up in the Knesset or in the United Nations you know that would be like you know you're you're out of your mind but that time. I didn't know anything was going on. I just know that was my whole life and that's when it started and ended and uh so I remember the Reb sent me a reply enclosed with the mime you know. So he sent me that mimer. I didn't know at that time that this was like a mikt of koli. I didn't know at that time that there was a mikt of cli prote. >> Yeah, that other people got it. At that time I thought I was was special to me and I don't remember ever getting anything from then until now. You can give me whatever you want. the biggest things the biggest greatest things I to say the word elated I was another another you don't know what that did to me that like put me cloud n maybe cloud 20 not cloud it was it was something you know and of course that chabak it b the whole thing you know ra then later I found out there was a pro so okay but still But that was some you have no idea what that that may be. Now I tell you an interesting thing. the it came the six day war everybody was it was two weeks before the six day war the he comes into this and he gives a clap on you know and he says listen there's a there's an order from home home home uh home homeland command and some home homeront command. homeront command and order that we have to dig graves because there could be there'll be mass graves because what because the massive now is and uh anybody who wants to go to dig the graves have you want to remain to this learning you can remain learning of course I remain learning And that's what and they they there were people that went and dug dug the graves. Telling you this not because okay you'll see why I'm telling you. So two weeks afterwards it was Monday morning 8:00 I remember like today I sent a postcard to my parents st postcard you know to say something like they would send every week or every two weeks. I went to the post office at that time to deliver to drop off the postcard and it was 8:00 after was 7 to 8:30 was you go to mik the d was I think 8:30 or 9 or something like that but anyway after I went to the postcard to deliver my postcard and on the way back a guy tells me you remember who it was he says shamata did you hear said What are you what do I hear? It mean it started. So what are you talking about the war? Oh. Oh the the war. Wow. So I that you know so really it caught me. So I ran to the mis. I came into what I see is that everybody's pasting these these tape on the windows and it gives there's a bomb. the the lash shouldn't be spread out all over >> shattered >> shattered right so and then they ded and all that now everybody was at that time you had was there was you know the one in Queens now he was a ber at that time you had yeah you had a lot of from there and Their parents of course were worried about it in in America and they wrote to the Reb this is the well-known telegram that the wrote there's nothing to be afraid of nothing to make another person afraid of to fright there's no no need to fright to somebody else okay I also got a letter or telephone what was it a letter from my mother saying that come home and we all got letters every American citizen got letters from the American embassy at that time that in this and this date any American citizen here should come to Lud airport that time it was still Lud wasn't yet Bengurian airport Lud airport and there will be a special um planes going to take us back to the United States and my mother very much wanted I should call that, but I was not. And the others were sort of like they were a little nervous, you know, on me. It had no effect whatsoever. And I'll tell you why. No effect whatsoever. I was very, very calm about the whole war. As far as I'm concerned, I knew nothing was going to happen. Why? I'll tell you why. The war was in in June year the order before then what is that something like four four months before okay I wrote to the reb that I want to come to I wasn't by the reb for almost two years I want to come for pes I want to come for pes leave you know come the rabbit told me and the Reb answered like this. He said, "Look, there's going to be a charter here." So, there's a lot of miners with the charter. No, first he said actually the letter is printed in the I forgot this letter that I'm talking about. Then he answered, he said, I think it's in I think >> and he and he says to me there's first of all that you know whatever Dan says. And then the Reb says there'll be a charter there a lot of mileus there's certain advantages we're going with a charter so do it then so since told me to come and help I knew that war is not going to affect me at all nothing's going to happen to me so I was very calm you know you're coming >> yeah so you know I also didn't have to have so much it was like here I got a promise from the reb what kind of I did I didn't I didn't think along those ways you know it I is when you're you know you're nervous when you're concerned when you're you're you're tensed I wasn't tensed about this and uh so that was that now funny no >> why did I tell you about the the um uh digging graves You see like I said before when he said he hated it if he made noise in middle or tal the middle. Now although during the war itself there was no sui yeshiva but the 7:00 tany he wasn't he was a matter >> that war maybe maybe he wasn't so media who was there or not but he said it wanted so we had a had a nice group of people come and listen to it the other on the other hand had outside of the of the room where we were of the bismetrish. If you make noise there, you can also hear it inside. It interrupts it that disturbs him inside too. So as he's he's speaking, he was saying to went back and forth outside, you know, you have to go to and that was bothering him. He didn't know where the war was come. the noise was coming from. It bothered him. After a while, he said, "Who's making the noise? Go in go into in the in the go bury bury yourselves in the pits that you that you that you made that you >> That was that was so funny." >> Okay. Then in then Wednesday the news came that they captured the so I remember all the boys that were with us they started dancing they were so happy you know came in and he gave it over the head. He said what are you dancing about? What's there to dance? It's still in the middle of the war still in the middle of the war. No, that was that's the para. So, we finished the para of of Russia and >> so you went back to New York whatever and >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh yeah, I went into what I remember and that was the first time that was the first time that I was there since I got that was the didn't see me for a year and a half already. >> And how old are you now? >> I'm old 18 I think 19 something like that. So, and the Reb didn't see me since then. And that's when you, you know, you have to make so I I remember like this. We went into I went into then you still can go in. It wasn't group like later on that you still you know every every family or every person individual went in by by himself. So what I remember is that he um when I opened the door and I walked in, the Reb was in the middle of putting away uh you know like an envelope in in his drawer here. He was he was sort of like bent down like this. And and as he was doing this, he saw me. He didn't say it loud, but I I mean I could hear him I could hear him say put it like this like this and then I you know I went and I gave my settle that settle I wrote something that I had that was bothering me about something with something about with my father was bothering me something and uh The Reb told me he says look there's a difference between you know Balabos is more you know there's the like there's these and he told me the known was that was even when he was in in middle of the real he still it didn't affect Where is the they were they were isolated from the world because they could be affected by that. I mean like told me it's a difference and all that. >> Now what >> there was a difference there's a difference between then and then he tells me to look in something about that and okay that was that. So what does it have to do with your father that he's a balik? >> He was a balik at that time. Yeah. Yeah. And there was certain things that you know that I think he should have that you know it bothered me and when I spoke to him about it he sort of like ignored. So I just vent it or or you know I I share it to the web and you know saying >> count me down. Count me down. >> The devil is saying not to meddle in >> right. Exactly. Exactly. >> Okay. I went back and then finally you know after a year I went back I came back in. Now again remember I'm coming back from I don't know maybe I overdid it I didn't sleep and all that so I was very I was unable to go on on I call my at that time was summer I came back the summer >> saying you didn't you didn't meet the the bar of meas because you were in right so I mean you know I had and I just came back you know overseas and all So u but I had to do something and my head then was you know was wasn't like the concentration my father had a a friend in as a story as a story you know the charity organization >> what is a story you never heard of as a story as a story is a charity organizations that helps that helps a stock organization that helps young light or people in need with money for you know they would come to the it's like it came it was it was very famous actually that was the only that they used to make an appeal for in in 770 there was no other institution outside institutions that outside the bish that they they made an appeal for here that they made an appeal. Anyway, >> who was running it? He was a big po before he was the he was of America before and he was very very know all the shilas came to him. It was a good and Ezra actually was founded in 1902. No Ezra was founded by Audi. Audabon was founded in 1902, the year the Reban was born. And a year later they opened up this charity and this or this you didn't have to give back the money for only mainly mainly for men who sat and learned that's why it's called Ezra Torah Ezra and I didn't know at the time. So, so anyway, so this they're on the east side. There's >> you got a job. You got a job paid off for the summer. >> So, yeah, listen. So, I'm in the I'm there and is they when came to America, they as came along with him and wherever the whatever location would be as a story would be there too. So, in other words, when they came, they were on Broadway the first time in the 30s, 1930s when they came. So as a story was also on the second floor and the first floor was either on the first floor and they were on the second floor in the same building >> in the lower side. >> Yeah. But then later they went to the lower side to east Broadway. At first they were on Broadway then they went to East Broadway 235 East Broadway as a story was upstairs and some other was downstairs. Now at that time the of as a story one of them there were two of them. One of them was Rabbi Margolan, father of them. Margolan was youn as well, you know, >> Virginia Ley in Virginia. Yeah. >> So, and my father who knew him very well, very friendly. So, yes, maybe you have a part-time job from my son and all that. Say, "Yeah, he's come." So my my my thing would be I would sit there and they they got requests mainly from all the I'm going to say names and and all the you know or not from all over Israel requesting assistance for either they just made a they need for an apartment you know to help make a or whatever. And then the meeting with there would be a meeting the officers and they would take the the list of uh the requests and uh they would decide how much to give. They would then then I came to implement it. They gave to me. I would have to write down the checks and then record it also. At that time there were no computers. So everything was on index you know the index cards like at one time I would record there. That was sweet. That was my job. The implementation of that. >> We enter the month of t and we prepare for the new year. There's an essential campaign for every single one of us to make sure is marked off on their checklist and that is the founded hash under to ensure that every single has the of giving every single day. Reb explained that is the general month that sets the tone for the entire year and by securing our daily sodaka right at the beginning we will be able to draw down continuous for the rest of the year. There's a few points to first of all it's for the entire family. The Reb urge that every single person should contribute for their family, men, women, and children so that everyone in the family is covered. And the idea is that it's calculated by the days of the year. You give a set amount corresponding to the numbers of days of the year. Whether it's a dollar a day, 50 cents a day, or 18 cents a day, it's multiplied by the days of the year. And especially in a year like this year, which is a leap year, you have to calculate the days of the year for a leap year. And it's a daily thing through the money is physically dispersed on your behalf twice a day before shak and before and before and when it's actually physically given encourage everyone to take care of this as early as possible before so the year starts with this with the complete take a minute right now calculate the number of days of this year count up your family members numbers and head over to myanhashana.com. That's m ke to secure your daily sedaka and continuous for the entire year to come. Again, I'm coming from and and I'm thrust here into this was the real headquarters of the misnd unfriendly territory. >> Yeah. And I was aware of that. When I came there, I started feeling the arrows. First of all, I uh when I came there, they people that saw I was uh on the barure, they met, you saw I was, you know, the way I was dressed and all that. The way I spoke, they started giving me jabs and they started and I had to answer. They started saying making fun of the Reb this and other things, you know. And to me, this was a shock. This was this first time that I hear these things and all that. And I was sort of like, you know, and I didn't know. So I wrote to the Reb and I said this I can't take it anymore. Um I'm I'm have to go because if I'm going to answer them there'll be my nature is not if I don't answer so I'd rather you know. So the answer to me, he said since we are commanded to distance ourselves from any so remain and keep quiet. So once I get the uh the confirmation from the reb that you know I can stay that if I be quiet it's not if the reb told me that do it it's not so I I remain okay now then listen to this story the president of of of brehank was the president of of asa was a very he was he was he was a grandchild of the it was named after him. He was a big he was he was a ro in camp New Jersey and he had a golden heart. He had a very good heart and he was ready in his 80s and he was and it's and he liked me very much because he would always come and he would come in once a week or once in a month with a whole regime a whole list of people that he wants that people came to him to ask for assistance and he wants to help that he tells me to you know to to implement this assistance for them. So he would come every time with a rash and I would do it for him. He loved me very much because he even came to the one in 770. So >> yeah and and he he loved me very much and he uh because I was efficient speed exactly what he wanted I did one time this was I think in Davis I would might I would be there from 9 to5. So one time I was there, he came 4:30 and it was the first time that I would stay over when he comes, you know, if I have to stay till 5:30 or 6 for him. I didn't. But that particular day, I don't remember what it was. Maybe maybe it was after I there's something in 770 I think was going to don after the theina passing or well there was some kind of a thing that 77 I very much didn't want to miss. So when it came five o'clock, I said to Ra, I said to him, "Listen, I I almost finished. I finished half, but uh let me I I'm sort of like in a rush now. I'll finish this tomorrow morning." So he says, "Where are you rushing to?" And he says to me, "Make believe I'm the Reb. If the Reb would tell you to this, you would also rush and all that." Now again I if I know now I wouldn't reacted like if I would have known then how this would affect him. He was already older man. And so he and I said it miss because this was my life and this were the way I thought. And I said the reb you the reb I mean the reb he exploded and he says he got up and he was shaking. I was afraid for him. I thought he was going to What? What do you mean? Did you ever fire me? Do you know I go I know Gansshas? Tell me any place. I'll tell you Gshas and all that. Then I looked at him and I reminded myself of this guy, you know, the long letter, you know, >> language >> and I said, "Okay, okay, okay. I'll stay. I'll stay. I'll stay, you know." >> So, uh, >> so you got a lot of exposure to the world. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That was really exposure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, okay. So, I stayed over and I did a favor and you know at the end he came to we stayed friends. He came to he got a he got a braha and because these and this rash was upstairs looking down down from his window seeing all the came at that time. Okay. Now there's one interesting that happened there. I remember one of my jobs as a story was like this also as a story I had a radio program every every mo shabas wvd right after or before rabbi wickan it's either after I don't remember it's either after re or before and my job was >> what was the program >> the program was to draw funds for as a story you had a every day every bunch of jobs you had a different draw come there to speak on behalf of Torah and ask people to donate, you know. So my job would be that during the week to go to the person that's going to speak on what's a shabas tape him tape him and could be modern orthodox rabbis could be big or whatever you know whoever they decided to speak that was a available available for that much >> was in Yiddish >> in Yiddish. Yeah. And know. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. In Yiddish. Yes. Now I would tape them. My job was to tape them and take the tape to Mr. Baseno who was the director there. This >> Yeah. in WVD to go down to the radio WVD and give it to him and that's it. Later on. Okay. So one time I came to this m rabbi from a young Israel and he started speaking and he very nicely about I don't remember which he said whatever he said but then he said like this he said and since now we're in a time of yeah now when I heard that don't forget just a couple of weeks before that there's a where the Reb says when you say you you know people are dying in because of you know this thing is this >> saying saying that the medina is >> you're saying that this is the I have to bring this to the masses So it's like you know like with the with the with the tonus when they told me to make a ton was for you know I'll get to that >> but it has to go through me now how can I bring a thing like this when the says that this is so I went to there were two there were two it was Rabbi Margolan there was another one the vad also el you know big uh who his name was Rabbi Binski now these people or this or they never held about this they didn't hold it this so I went to him and I said listen this guy is saying I can't put this in you want to put this in I said as a story is going to say that you want as a story should say it's claiming declaring it's the the gula. So he says, "Listen, put it in, but I don't care. You just put it in." So I said, "Oh, I'm not going to put this in." So I didn't tell anybody. Didn't tell anybody. And I figured like this. I know how to splice, you know. I know how to splice tapes. So I listen to the tape. And >> before before editing, you had to slice. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, usually I don't edit. I just give it in the way it was. But this time I decided I'm going to spice it. And uh no because I remember Oh. Oh. Oh. Because I remember when he said this, I told him the robe who said it's I said, "How can you say?" And he started arguing with him. He says, "If you don't put it in, then don't don't put in anything. I won't." And he he was adamant about it. No. So that's why I went to Rabbi Riinsky and he said listen if he said you know overlook it but I couldn't overlook it. So I said to myself what am I going to do here? So I said I figured I'm going to splice it and in case this guy first of all it'll be so even if he you know he's gets angry it's already everybody heard the tape everybody heard his you know his his appeal. But then I would always say there was some kind of garble. It was garbled something. I would al he probably wouldn't know that that I did it on purpose, but I didn't care. I spliced it and when it came to that part I just took it out through that wasn't mentioned at all. Funny thing is he never called he never called you know protesting. >> So it went through. >> Yeah. Went through. Okay. So I was there from So then again I want to I want to be like everybody else like all my whatever it is and suddenly thrust into this place and the tells me stay here >> after the summer you asked the >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So stay told >> stay there. Yeah. Now this was not I didn't consider this because to me was you know it all goes through through procedure was no procedure. So this is all something you know like I never I never consider myself a >> like when you go to and all that to me was you go to you have to like in the beginning you got all these that went there so much and all they all go and they some you know they had a sew and and plow and and and make something and and you know I didn't consider myself selfish okay but the told me to stay so I stay but it always bothered me you know I so okay so I'm there now he those years revanken became a sagoren that bile as a story was already he couldn't see I would we I would have to go to him once or two days to get checks signed. He still signed checks. So the first first three hours in the morning when his head was still you know he was already bentishim but his head was still sharp. his grandson who was Udah Hanken. Yudhen later became involved in Betshan here in in Betchan in Israel and he uh became a big like a among the among the you know the more the national religious community >> and I remember once asked me he said listen he wants to become Ra Bachan and Rabbi Gur was chief rabbi at that time and you need or you need a some kind of you know uh recommendation from so he wants from me he figured that if Hanken would see if Rab Gorin would see from a letter from Hanken recommending him it would go smooth. So I remember he dictated me a letter to to Rabbi Gorin. He very much held a rabbi. should know cuz he he was a big a big double because he reborn when he was a ber I think or a younger man he came to America to show to gets me a very safer he made a safer culture of a very young age very lumpish and safer and ravankin one of the person he came was Raen at that time he was the ro you know the the main ro in in America and he was ra was very rough mash was very impressed from his lumpus so he always held for a big and that's why he was a little reluctant to go out against him when there was the whole story with im you know with >> right over there okay so he so at the first year when I was there his son Yuden used to learn with him then he became and they moved to the he moved to Ra was left without somebody learning with him. So I was asked to come every morning but be before I come to as I used to come to 910 instead of coming to story go straight to him sit with him for two or three hours learn with him and I must tell you that most of my learning I mean we didn't I went through gshasa in yanker with him in yanker >> yeah because you know his head was couldn't take built and back and forth and I and he was so fluent. He was such a god and that whatever I said I made a mistake you know in apostic so he would correct me and I would say that was really at really shimish at that time now with him and me and this was already recorded in other places also since I'm talking to you now about all this I'll tell it to you I once came into him and He uh he says to me, "Listen, I want you I want to write an article in Aparadis." You know, you heard of Aparus, a biblical journal. >> That was I want to write I want to write an article in a he'll dictate it to you. And he starts dictating I heard and I saw there is a very bad custom in the yeshivas where they eat before the that's before right after you know the after >> they're eating before >> right they eat before and he starts saying like this the reason that they make kdish and they eat before k is is is because they're afraid that they were afraid that uh they'll be fasting and not allowed to fast and uh that's one of the reasons that they're doing it. But he says and if they'll do it after you're not allowed to talk out. So he says like this. So he wrote like this. I'm telling you the gist of it. He says, he says if you eat before is the is the afterwards is not. So it's better to talk out make kish or whatever you want to do after then than then talk then >> and eating before you don't eat before it's but this is not eat okay and that thing went in in that paradise two weeks passed A letter arrives from Rabbi Moa from Shiva's tells and the letter is stated is addressed to Rabbi Hen at the bottom it says confidential and since I was his eyes took all that was I took all the I read it to him and he starts off there like this I was shocked to see to see How was pen deviated something saying that how could you say how could you slander the yeshivas that it's a minigra to eat before and and of course you know that all the yeshivas do it and you're you're slandering them and all the did it melt and this guy and you know he >> oh so was saying that >> yeah he was saying how could He was saying >> true but this is this is the minute that's done. >> Yeah. This is the minute that everybody did and you coming out slandering it and you merc that all the did it and all he started I remember a whole list. I remember K was one of them and all that. So and I read it to him could be I wouldn't have read it to him. He was ready at 90 and he was very emotional when he heard that and it got him all he was all so it really shook him up. He said right back to him. They left me. I like I know more than him and I know better than him. And this is and I have there was there was a big over there between and said they gave me the authority to say so. So you have to you know have to submit to what I'm saying and that's what he's telling him. And then I get a letter. He gets comes back with a letter a week or two weeks later and he says a six-page letter and he says, "I'm sorry. I didn't know I didn't want to be gay. I just want to take up for for my the for the I just want to take up for the covenant of the shas and the and then he goes into a whole pilful you know which then he I I spoken over with the mashstein in in and tells and goes on that but then I wanted to know you know I was very you know I I was very interested in uh in he asked me I no I said him. I said Rafa but he mentions here all these cutler and all that. So he says so he says he first he thought I was on his their side. I was taken their side. So he said I said who ever heard of such a thing? So he calmed it down. He was very happy. Then he says to me he says I want to tell you something. I want to tell you something. There was a rough here at the side. His name was Rab Goldberg. I think he once came to me with a sh the middle of Shash there. They they sing a lot and they would for a minute they would say one word and like you know and is it considered or not? So I told him says two weeks later he comes back to me. He says he was Shabas in Lakewood. He spoke to Cutler and he told him >> Hen was in liquid. >> No, this he spoke to asked Hen whether it's told it's this R was in liquid. He asked the same shler and uh he told him and he comes back to Roink and he says I spoke with him and he told me it's not Epson. So he so I told him so So I so so he tells me like so so so if he tells me so tells me like this you should know maybe he knew a lot of pillik when it comes to and he implied that if would know that I assert he would also answer he would also answer and uh okay that was that he would find would come every would always come to win and sha wasn't the same on east side a couple blocks away and he was he was in charge of that >> huh >> was in charge of that >> was in charge as a story he was a member of a good member but was the president now I remember And he was so adamant about this raid about eating before that in the in the l of asra the yearly there's always when it comes to it tells you that you have a parenthesis of hanken was against it was against eating before okay but he was always with that that was his like his you know that was his thing why I'm telling you this because I Remember Zulti the chief rabbi of at that time once came once came to America to sound the alarm that Goran is going to become the chief rabbi was that time and it's terrible if he come becomes cuz he's like a ra and he's misra you know and we have to do everything we have to protest that he's not supposed to be so he came to meet with rahen about this and Rafa I was there at the time and he says and as soon as he came came so I introduced him I said he's the chief rabbi of when he heard that he says oh very good he says to said to now thought he's going to speak about garb you should know when you before kids. It's their eyes. >> So this is a big deal. >> Yeah. And this was you know you didn't expect this what you know what's he talking about? That was >> very interesting. Okay. So so I'm with him. I'm with Rafen 197. >> Are you interacting with with the Reb this time? Like what's going on? >> Yeah. Yeah. will tell you some. Oh yeah. Yeah. You just me. Okay. Yeah. Now I'm going to tell you that this is I would say the the highlight. This was the highlight of my being within and the rebet the printed already in the back. Rhen would always listen much shabas on the radio to these shows. You know there's a story to rebapt and mainly to Rabbi Wineberg. He would also always listen to Rabbi. In those days, the Reb was very, you know, every he would speak against Mi and the Maal have to go out of the National Religious Party should go out of the government because them being >> Mi right then the government. They're upholding a government that sanctions uh a reform conversion and he always spoke about it and every afterb would give over the tany he would take five 10 minutes to give over an excerpt of the faban that you know that couple hours before on shabas and he would always bring down this thing with mudi you know the Reb's mind the Reb is demanding that they leave the coalition. One day I come in and Rafen says I want to write the Reb something and I want to write him that but I think he's making a mistake by demanding they should go out from the government because look they'll never amend the law because there's somebody uh a dominant figure in the government in the coalition now whose son is or his wife whose son is married to a Goya So once he amends this law, he's going against his own family. So he's not he's never going to allow it. That's number one >> practically. >> Yeah. Number two, if he they go out, I mean what they're upholding yiskite, you know, whatever yiddishite we have is going to be, you know, it's they're upholding it. They maintaining it. So, and he says, "So, I think the Reb should stop. You know, it's it's not right that the what the Reb is demanding from them." Said myself, "Wow, I'm going to write the Rebel letter like this. What is this?" But then I said to myself, look, I see Raen is very adamant about it. If I'm not going to do it, somebody else is going to do it. So, what the heck, you know, let him let him I as long I'll write it. I'll be the typewriter. As long as he signs it, who cares, you know? So, he signs I'll do my job. And I'll give it to the Reb. I didn't do it. He He did. I was just a typewriter. So, and I figured, you know, I forgot about it. I didn't know I didn't think the Reb is going to pay any attention to it. So, I, you know, I didn't even go usually a lot of letters I gave him and I told By Mleian, I said, "Listen, this is Mo. This is very I want you to must see this immediately and all this here. I just put it down whatever wherever it goes. You know I just went in put it down and figured and all that. It was 10:00 in the morning. I think it was on a Thursday. Yeah. Was it Thursday? Yeah, Thursday. Thursday to 10 o'clock in the morning and figure it I go to my around one o'clock or 12 o'clock I had to ask something about a certain thing and you know and I forgot about this whole thing with Hanken and I I called him up about said and as soon as he picked up the phone he goes me he says where are you I'm I'm searching for you already for 2 hours you Oh, you got an answer immediately from the Reb. The Reb says and the Reb and and that that answer there. You'll see you'll see it in the in the in the there were three answers here because I gave to Rehen this answer. Reen reacted to it. I told the Reb what he reacted. The Reb answered it again and then he reacted it again. Then Reb again something. And these three times what the Reb answers is printed already in I think I'm not sure. I'll find out. I'll let you know if you really want to know. So the Reb writes about the the first one where he says there's a dominant figure. So he says you're probably mean Bengorian. Bengurian. Yeah. The in the letter. So you're talking about Bengurian. Reb says you're probably talking about Bengurian because his son Bengurian son was married to Goya. Okay. So, you're talking about him. So, you should know that this this they the the law returned. The mi problem arose erupted after he was prime minister. He wasn't in the government then. So, golden mayor's time. This after he was prime minister. And when he was prime minister, it was gear was kala. was a proper gear. So it has nothing to do with him. Then the Reb says by them being in the government every time they're in the government >> they're from party. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a party. They're holding up. They're maintaining them. So I got this letter. I got the answer from the Reb on Thursday 12:00. I figured like this Friday I don't go in. The next time I'll see him is Sunday. To leave over an answer for the Reb from Thursday to Sunday to somebody, you can't do that. Whatever answers to somebody, you have to give it to them immediately. So I figured 7:00 in the evening. I went down there with friend of mine Rabbi Gwitz Parkway and we went down because his came from the same city as Rabhen came from his also was so I took him down there with me. So should you should see it's a friendly friendly person. We came 7:00 in the evening. I came in there and I tell him the answer and uh here's the answer. He says, "No, it's not the answer." And he's he sort of I say he's disturbed. He's going back like, you know, and but then maybe he doesn't want to speak in front of Rabbi Guritz. So I asked him to wait in the car. When he went out, I said to him, "This what the Reb says about Goya is this." So he says, "I didn't mean." So who do you mean? So he says, he starts saying, "Um, so I said I I said, "You mean Abbe?" So he said, "Yeah, aban." Yeah, that's who it is. Aben. So okay. So I went out, I said goodbye and all that. I read back to the Reb and that's what he said. Then the Reb writes back another letter to him with a bigger uh much larger letter. You'll see it in settlers bigger than the first one. He says ab the say take a look over there. The tells you there was all origin. Ab his wife is the sister of the daughter-in-law of Rabbi Herzak the chief rabbi. He has nothing to do with me with the with the coalition with the government. He's he's a sak he's a foreign minister. So you hear him, you hear him in in in in init he has no say whatsoever, no saying whatsoever in in in Israel. He has no say in any matter in Israel. His main focus is to be in the United Nations. That's it. And then he says and uh to and it's for them to be in the government even when their own rabbis their own rabbis rabbi at that time these are the rabbis that their mentors and they they follow their they told them that they have to leave the government >> they told leave the government at that time and they're not leaving the government they're going against their own rabbis remember so when I came back and I told him this he listed it and he says And he says and he he says he just he he he said that the what the rabbis since the their rabbis didn't tell them a date. They didn't tell them you can't go up up until this date. If by this and this date the the law is not amended you have to leave the government. They just said they have to leave the government. So, so a sim it's a it's a political a political threat. So I wrote back to the Reb what he said and this the Reb you take a look very sharp and this from this was at the end he says to say to say from a that's a political political threat is and they can say on any of they can also the same thing. No, it started off like this because he said there was no date that things like this. It's there's no date. You take a look. It is all day has to so from above that it's a political political threat when I told him that he was a big when he heard that it gave much I saw but he he didn't he remained quiet really heard him it hurt him but he was mab deis he you know He really that's sort of like he was mabit and that was it that was the end of that story. >> Okay. I was with Henin. Rahen passed away in Midgimu. Yeah. But this is before they say here beforeh the secretary of who was name ye by the name of Yan of Helerstein made and they were looking for somebody to replace him and I think Zamagari told Simber that You could, you know, why not put Lavine upstairs? He's in the same building and all that. >> Why not? >> Zar, he was very involved in a good he was a right. I don't know. I don't know. I never asked him. Even if I asked, he wouldn't tell me. I don't know if Zman did that on his own or he was told to do so. I I don't know, but I never spoke to him about it. Now so yeah so Elvin agreed >> and I started working at >> so you became the you became the mask yes the mas right okay that's where I start >> now it's as well or just he moved over to now the at that time was a by the name of of rabbi mayor a big his father was the mad and he he was a big mayor. Now it's >> I have a question is what what's his position in the >> president? >> So he's the president he's the >> he's the he's the final word. He's the final word. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So basically becoming the mask of automatically means that you're >> Exactly. Exactly. >> You're working with >> Exactly. Right. Right. Right. So base there was uh this is I think a week before I became masal there was a delegation of audim for raon I think mayor co rabelberg another to raon I forgot their name I think they're my rifman I forgot their names they went into the Reb to give for and sat with him for I think a half hour or whatever. Okay. I was not yet involved in at that time but I knew you were you weren't in the >> I I knew of the meeting though. No. So the next morning I went down to him to you know I was upstairs I was a story and I went down to to and I asked him tell me what what were you talking about and by the rebas so he says to me you should know to sit by the is and I want you to know that the is sitting where sit where he's in his broom and it's as though is right next to him in his daladamas because he started telling us what's going on over there. He started telling us about meetings of the government. Who sat here, who sat there, who said what, who said that, at what time and when and how. And spoke about and it's mamesh. You should know by him is mish in the same room or next door. Mamesh next door. He knows everything. It's mine. Now this lit. Yeah. Oh yeah. Now we're going back to to I'm still in another story at that time. That's when the the thing broke out the whole chaos you know with registering as he Yeah. And when the reb came out the first time the reb came out of this was lame. And if you listen to the you'll hear the saying like this. There's that there there's a subject here that I I was involved behind the scenes. I didn't want to make it didn't go out publicly about it. But I see I have no choice. Nothing's being done. So I have to speak about it publicly. And he started speaking. That's when he started speaking the first time screaming against the against the law for an hour. And from that day on until to touch until the 80s he was not one public gathering where he did not he didn't mention this all the time mentioning that and always demanding that they go out of the government demanding they go out of the government this now when the reb said when the said that you know I see nobody's that the the people gave up and nobody's doing about it. So I have no choice but doing it. I could understand what the Reb meant because I saw something. I witnessed it myself and you know then I and and and understood that that's this is what the Reb meant. What happened was like this. They sent go to Sabonim with Mosha Finstein, Rabbi Elberg and other two Rabonim went there was a delegation that went to Israel about this make the alarm to protest it to meet there with with the higher achel of the Israeli government and the Rabonum at that time to try to to amend the law. This was before the Reb was speaking about it. After all, this is the the not. So I remember with when he came back, I was upstairs in Torah came up because he also had people that he would ask assistance. He would sponsor them. He would be on behalf of them. He would ask to send them money. And we're speaking with this Rabbi Reginki. And Rabbi Reginki says to him, "No, Rabbi Elig, what do you say? How was your trip? How can you what's what's the how did you fare in this with Moody and all that? So he says to him like this I hearing this I'm telling you word by word what I heard with my own ears. He says Rabbi Ginski there is nothing to be done. I tell you if you'll take a revolver a gun point it to their heads and threaten them that you know threaten them with a revolver. They're not going to they're not going to do anything. We'll shoot you. If you're not going to amend the law, they also will not amend the law. It's the government. >> Impossible. Yeah, it's impossible. Forget it. Forget it. Like he he said it openly. Maybe there was others that said it also. You know, when the Reb says that people gave up, maybe there was others also, but this is definitely one of them. Okay. So then the started activating behind the scenes of him through >> you told this over to someone >> what >> were you just told me >> that time maybe I told this to the I don't remember if I mentioned this to the Reb could be I did I don't remember could be I did or anyway >> but he's saying it's around this when the Reb starts speaking. >> Yeah, it was right before right before he started. >> I think they were told the same thing to the Reb by the way. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Now uh so after after after oh after the the after >> that's when they started after the activated them through to activate them on in other words to make a public demonstration against it to make a ton made a tonis you'll see you know and Of course, I had to implement this all. This was all whatever they decided I had to do the actual uh implementation. >> So, I organized I organized the the uh the the the mass there was a mass demonstration on the lower east side. Everybody came. We remember came at that time and the whole yeshivas went everybody came and was there and you know we were didn't help but was a it was a big mak but this was one of the things that I had to organize everything was sent to Chicago to make something like that stayed by rebel who were there reburn came at that time and this was all through Sim Elber but of course in the back there was the reb of course here I was also involved in implementation. So if there were things that I thought that had to be given over I would always call I never I never wrote to the Reb in I would never write to the Reb about or stuff like that. That would all go through. Now the very first time I said this many times already the very first time that I spoke to don't forget I was a ber and I was didn't know anything about the reb the line I thought I was speaking so the very first time I remember I spoke about something about him and suddenly I hear the reb saying to make him ask him about this and this this later on went out like this I'll tell you every time the Reb wanted to know something he didn't ask directly to me even though I'm on the phone and I hear it he said to Rabbikov ask him this and this so I heard the question twice heard it from the reb himself and then I heard from but the very first time that this happened I didn't expect this and it was like a shock it It was like an electric shock when I hear the Reb's voice. I lost my my identity. I lost my my my my speech. I I didn't I was overwhelmed. I I you know and the Reb says to ask him and was asking him and I can't speak and he's waiting for an answer and I can't speak. So he said he said okay maybe says no maybe later and all that then we'll speak about it another time and all that. and we hug up. And then after that, when I hugged up, I said to myself, "What's going on here? The Reb is asking, and you're not and you're you're not saying anything. I mean, this this could happen again." So I started thinking in my mind that when I speak to Rabbi, even though I hear the Reb's only noise, the Reb is not around. And this is like what it says that he took away because or else there's no place for for for for over here also I had to be this this was you know this I had to be or else there's no place for me here that's you know I don't have an identity and it help it it worked because I was able then to even hear the Reb speak to but I know I'm speaking okay I hear the Reb that's like a side thing it's secondary thing but his main thing is I'm speaking I give all the answers everything that I'm asked to I'm you know was good and it came to a point where I was able even to to to joke with him or what like that okay so do I once got I'm just I'm I'll come back soon to to But what's interesting is that that there was a year and I forgot which year that I was able to get a letter from and from Gdal supporting the Lakoma parades 770. This was a big thing because they were so I got a letter from both of them. I could have gotten a letter at that time from Cutler too. That would really be the big bomb. But I figured it myself. I'm afraid if I got to him, you know, it could screw up the whole thing. It could >> He was kata was part of a banana. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I was very friendly. He liked me very much. I'll come to that soon. We were very very friendly. He was like his father. So he um so I uh got a letter from them. It was publicized of course Jewish press and then this then >> it was like a letter. It was a letter from a >> no from Mosha a private letter from Mosha and from on his stationary >> sure I wrote the letter and he signed it. He signed the date of the letter and all that. I remember okay so I get a call from one of his one of us you know the people that didn't like me that you know that was there and he said you know what kind of a stepish you made to you know what you did you got a letter is so angry at you he started saying telling me he's angry at you that you did this and that and you said it on Sunday you're not supposed to Sunday and you know >> that the praise on a Sunday >> yeah and he don't mention Sundays you know, and he's angry and we went and you know, it really frightened me a bit. I later on I found it's not true, but but he's so angry, you know, that so I remember I I I called I had to share it with him. And the Reb was out in line to listening to my story. I'm telling him the whole story and he heard it and he said he told me, "Nah, don't worry about it. Maybe next time you check it over again. Like he he dismissed it. And then he said to me in a joking way, what about did you eat the the the eggs the eggs on? I didn't know there was a minute to eat eggs. Did you know that? I mean >> I think I found out that you eat I think and I didn't know that that was it. And I said, "Vos, what are you talking about? What kind of eggs?" And I hear in the back I hear the background laughing so hard, you know. It wasn't a smile. He burst out in such a laughter, you know, and I got scared because I was embarrassing. I didn't know what the exit is about. And I should have known what the exit is about. And the the Reb is laughing so hard and is laughing. And uh later on you know I I found out that it's a mid you know so that's one thing and uh coming back to well the tonis dness that's already known I don't know there was already printed in in encounter they had something like that I don't know should I say it >> huh >> okay >> among is brought to you We live in a chaotic world. A world where for us we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. 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He says, "How come a good is not doing anything? Some kind of a tonist or or filler? How come you guys are quiet? What's all this? Well, and this is the way you're going to help. But of course to them they this was a novelty. So but Elbert saw that everybody wants it. So he decided he's going to call a meeting of all the I'm going to start one of all the members and to discuss it and whatever is uh decided okay whatever is resolved is he he'll he'll tell me to implement so I remember the middle even this the first time remember came and this guy came I remember this guy it was a big a big meeting usually meetings were just small communion but now was a big a lot of people came everybody from all the Babacha members in Austad came Rabbi Weinberg Rabbi Menick Rabbi Morazzov everybody and uh and this so the first person speaking was Reb Mentlick he started giving over the day of the reb and and was speaking very emotionally with and he got up there and those who remember Rabbi Rabbi mentally he was very emotional and he would make with his hands and his body and he said the Reb said this and the Reb said that and he was speaking so strongly you could see that the was tilting towards him like no >> you can't do it on this not a not a good idea. >> Yeah. Then came Titus. I started speaking and he says and he was also aator and he said I can't understand how you can dance in such a time such a time to be some people are falling there and and so I remember there was a a a rabbi there who from the g rabbi ro who hated you know the so he got up there and he interrupted and he said And eating you're you're able to eat and you're able to sleep anyway just you can't dance but eating and sleeping he could remember anyway they resolved it that there should be a ton actually should be >> yes they resolved that tonis because Elbert wanted it too el wanted it it wouldn't be but he also wanted it this would gave some kind of uh make it would it would give a good publicity you know be everybody is for it the big beam it'll be and everybody is now into it and Anton is and I go to is doing it so they at night was not at the meeting so at night they had a telephone conference I wasn't there they had a telephone conference with and others big rabbana the old laminsky reb all the they at that time they decided to make a tell this and they drew up an ad that has to be you know has to be publicized on or yeah and now they also know you don't you make a tus on in middle of but they they wanted the tus after and but they would notify the public during the >> Reb's position was that >> you don't Yeah. Right. Right. So, and to me, this is crazy. This is I mean, what are you you're going to tell people, you're going to tell people that there before that there's going to be a tis and and after they're going to dance for the what kind of sim would that be if they know there going to be such a time? Okay. Anyway, they made that thing up and Elwick says to me, "Okay, bring it down to Jacobson to the Algamander General. Bring it down. Bring it to them." And and uh so I didn't want to do it at first. I said, "What am I going to do? How am I how can I do a thing like that?" But then I said to myself, "If I'm not going to do it, he's going to do it. So, let me do it. I'll try to sabotage." So, I took it and I said to him, "Okay, I'll do it." Now, he knew that there was the deadline was Wednesday 2:00. He gave it to me over the phone the the night before or in the morning and he knew he suspected me and he suspected me of you know and he called me at 10:00 in the morning. He says you gave it over. So I said, "Lixon, listen. It's 2:00. There's a deadline. It's only 10." "Of course I I'll do it." He calls me 12:00. "Did you do it?" So I said, "I'm on my way." Calls me 1:00. Did you do it? Yeah, I'm in the middle of traffic. There's a big traffic jam. They go, I came down. He calls me around after two and I said, "Well, I came, but he told me it was too late. What can I do? It's a traffic jam." Okay. Okay. That was that was at night. The next morning I come into into the office raid morning and I the telephone rings and I pick up the phone and on the phone and he says, "Line, get the heck out of this office immediately. You you have to be in a nutouse. What you do? How can you speak this? You know what you did? Biggest Rabonim every 70 years said that this is that this exists for 70 years and no one had the to go out against and everybody else and you come along and you do that. What would you do get that? I don't want to see you here. You're fired. Don't come back. Don't don't show your face around and all that, you know, and and Okay. So I left and I didn't know I started thinking to myself. I know the reb who told me he wants I should be and he was telling me I didn't know how to how to feel how to act and I'm not going to write about this. This is Sha I am not going to write about this to the Reb now. I'm not going to call to tell him about this now. I'm going to speak about these things to the Reb about this you know I decide I'm going to write to the Reb about this after Shabas at that time Sha Friday Shabas I think Shabas was Shabas it came out like that you know where three days one after the other so it was after Shabas now Rabbi Gurari told me Zurari says you should have you shouldn't have done what you did >> so that shouldn't yeah yeah they told you no because since it's important you be there So but I so when he told me that I started I started really feeling bad maybe I did wrong I didn't know I didn't know I oh yeah I came to and told me he didn't fire me he says if you want I'll tell to bring you back so I said to myself why should I go I don't know if I did good or not because if I did good why should I go back and so I said I don't know. So he says, "Listen, if you want, I'll tell Ela to give you go back." So anyway, so I decided I won't say anything until I write to the Reb about it. Then uh after shabas gracious I wrote to the rebba and I got a reb I got an answer from the reb saying that I spoke about this yesterday by the then the rebb spoke about and he says now is not the time and I think he mentioned in that I could come out sharper than you did but now is not a time and yeah and especially in this he he referred to the simmon in which in the time of you don't make fast you don't you don't proclaim fasts and all that and that's why I think wasn't so you know wasn't so enthused about this whole thing was so enthusiastic about making this whole the publicizing the tonis in in the middle of because you also know the d anyway told me that he spoke about it Shabas on Shabas he spoke at that time the difference between but there was a time that you needed rain so he came to had to make a circle he had to d it took time for him to d and then it started pouring he said I don't want this I didn't want I don't mean pouring then it didn't it went with drops I didn't drop until it took time took time until he got what he wanted. All he did was he said and so this what said but they wanted they went according to where they wanted has a place in but I wanted it should be like you know like should go straight and all that. So uh okay so I understood from the reb that uh I shouldn't have done it. So I went back to I said okay I'll go back and Elberg I actually wanted I he had a this was all a play by Elberg he had to show face in front of the other that he's not labic so he had to yeah because I'll tell you >> he's saying you're saying the whole thing that he wanted the >> yeah yeah the whole no the whole thing that he fired me and he spoke he spoke to me with such you know which such degrading names >> really you I'm happy nobody heard it. So he he really, you know, washed the floor with me. So, but you know something, I'll tell you something. years later. Years later, 10 years later, when I went to Ali, when I came to Israel, before I went to Israel, I went to to Rabbi Elberg with my wife to say good goodbye. And uh you know like a uh so he says to me so he went he got a calling he went into the other room and his wife remained in the room together with me and my wife and he she says to me I want to tell you something my husband is not listening now but I want to tell you something you know you should know my my my husband admired you very very much. the courage, your your your courage and your audacity, you know, he he liked it very much. But but he couldn't. So in other words, when he when he was smearing you, whenever he shouted at you, he did it only to save face. If people should not say that he's lavage with Lavage, but he really admired you very very much. Okay, that's one. Now uh >> you want to go back you want to go back to me hoodie. >> No. >> Okay. >> What? What are you talking about? Going back to fight me. >> No. No. I'm saying you you wanted me to remind you about going back to me hoodie at some point. >> Come to that. I'm going to come. There's something now. There's only thing with that I that I didn't realize so much. I you know I mean I was unaware of that because because you have to know to me there's no there was the that's it you know but it's like this is but then there's you know so it's like two different to me the reb was so I I did not try to find favor or to I had an opportunity to be with whatever I wanted but I didn't do it so much I didn't feel like others did it I mean I he was the kadur I had the most respect for him he was great and I loved him but I didn't know to what extent I had favor in his eyes because I'll tell you when I came I remember when I was uh when I was with so it was his his his grandchild his grandson Tendler he was his right-hand man he would make appointments and he would be very very angry at his wife too people come bothering you if you don't you know they just hated it that people come bothering you all the time I would go there also if I had to do something you know with with um uh if he had assigned something I would go for but as I I stayed away I knew so when I came back to from Israel and I went to Israel in 1982 and I came back in 1984 for a wedding and weeks before I left I was there for two weeks and uh a day before I left I called a courtesy call to reba tendler and I said you know I I was see I'm going back so said when are you going back so I said I'm going back tomorrow and she said you were here for two weeks and you didn't come to my grandfather so I said no I know I remember you're so angry that you didn't want people to go and all that yeah but you're but you're something else I mean how is it that you didn't come in I was shocked to hear that, you know, but uh >> he he he Mosa really really we had a a wonderful rapport and I'll tell you one time I was sent to be at a good convention that time all the were there and the ant all the antelabers were there and I I couldn't understand why I was sent there but you know I was sent I I had I did it I was sent >> I was sent from you know >> told you yeah through throughman so they and so I went I I remember when told me to go because he paid for it he paid for my going so I said why what for So I went and all the then there was really was like after was and there was and there were all the big ones. Now there was this there was a Misha was there. I was later I was told that the reason that I was sent this was like four months after the reb came out with and at that time a lot of people were who posted it said it's I was told afterwards by not by not I was told by somebody some of these times that it could be you were sent because if they would probably want to speak about against Mipades. If they could see Alabacha there, it was sort of like deter them. It was like, you know, it was like so I was there at that time and was there too and to him the was really you know don't know but he saw me there and everybody saw me there with the Babage. This is the year after a couple of months after was and then the seda was that after kabal shabas after admiral shabas everybody with 2,000 guests there all the will be standing on you know on by the table and everybody would go past like you know they go past and say good chabas good chabas and then he would say good job good when I went by this lab goes by I said good chabas to and he says so he stopped he says you have where to eat come to me and this is they they all they all heard this this is going to eat so it was very it's very interesting and yeah you asked me about ah yeah actually What's that? >> What's that? Before the >> Yeah. >> Um, what what was some other What year was the >> 74? >> So, were there some other was there anything between and that you were involved in >> besides besides the Oh, yeah. Okay. This afterwards after the Okay. >> Okay. you know, so start with the and then we'll move on to the other stuff. >> Okay. >> What's the story? >> I want to be because the reb is not going to be. So I well I don't want to I want to be by the so the is going to be in 770. Well, he he should be to the Reb. So I asked him and he heard it was he said I was also my was also he was very happy for two reasons. He right away agreed. He was happy that you know to be by me personally and also I I I guess he felt it was like a deji from his so he agreed. I didn't tell anybody. I just told him there's going to be a crown heights and that's it. Okay. So then the cast came he came he came. >> So he had no idea that the is going to be in front of Sami. >> Yeah. He came he came and then nobody knew he came and he he was there at first. You see the pictures they were speaking before the he was with he had a big conversation with and then came the rabbi was there rabbi lip I think really the really they were able to be mash to come at the window and after the after the the after the said to him, "Would you want to go >> to go to the to the Reb to say hello?" He said, "Of course, of course." And then he he went in and they spoke for 45 minutes. And there's that picture where when he came out where label goers helping him put on the coat. Remember that? You saw that picture. >> Yeah. You can see you could see the like >> you see the reb. And then the main thing is you see that the time the time is accord 9:30 but this time because she came out 50 minutes later that is a picture was the picture of the rebi coming out you know this is very important this the clock because two weeks after two weeks later all those that the the meeting of and was the front page. The main headline that week that infuriated infuriated everybody. >> They refurated because like you you did some basically to to bring him. They were furated because because it came out from the article that Mosha went to the Rebba and the Reb didn't come to him. >> Mhm. They they felt the Reb should come. >> They were saying because you're bringing the Reb at 2:00 in the morning and you have the picture to prove that it wasn't 2 o'clock in the morning. >> Yeah. Right. When the Reb has a heart attack in 1978, all the got together what to do for you know to bring to the Reb and help him you know get well soon. So remember he was I think he's the one that initiated it and decided to erect numoist. >> I was sort of jealous. Everybody's doing something. What can I do my capacity? So I figured if I can get a letter from that would be a big. So, but I knew that if I asked to write the letter, it's going to take time and meanwhile somebody can come in and see that it's he's supporting them. If so, he's going to right away sabotage it. So, I had to figure out how to do this in a way that nobody would sabotage it. Now, I had access to to go whenever I wanted. I didn't need an appointment. And I was very very friendly with his wife, the rabbis. And it was mash. I think it was a very snowy day. Nobody was outside. Nobody would go anywhere. I figured this is the perfect time. So I figured it's enough. I didn't want you ask him to write it with his own handwriting. Well, that's enough. I'll I'll I drew up the letter that he's supporting all the all he has to do is sign it like he also does and the date. So and I bring him this and I came there nobody was there. Suddenly I see that not only is he signing but he's writing poor lines with his handwriting about the reb is and and you should support everything that he does. That's what means to support it and support it. And as he's writing, it takes time for him to write. I'm saying I want to get out of here already because maybe somebody can come in in the me and but I got it. I went out and it was 6:00 when I came out and it's it was a snowstorm and I would go to Crown Heights with the bus that goes through Williamsburg goes over the Williamsburg bridge but at that time the Reb down my recorders at 7 went home 7:00 so I knew I didn't think I would make it to bring the reb before he goes but I wanted the reb at least know there's a letter of reaing this should help him to get well. So, so I uh called up label label rael and I told him you should know I have a letter from supporting the and I hope to be there in time. If not, you should know that I have this and you can relate it to the web. I took the bus and the bus went I came to New York to Brooklyn, stopped at Brooklyn as parkway. I ran out with all my might and I ran. When I came into 770, it was the last goddish after Alenu. So everybody's standing in line, you know, people are standing in line when the reb comes out from the mismed to go to his room and I'm standing there with everybody and the reb comes out and label is in back of him and the reb looks everybody he sees me as soon he sees me he turns around to label and he makes with his hand like you know and he goes back to label them and the label immediately runs to me and he says give me give me the letter and I gave him the letter he goes in after 10 minutes he comes out and he says the neighbor asked I should tell you this I something else that I I have >> a second remind me remind me again what year was your >> 74 so this is before your right >> no this is this is after 78 this is after the this is by the after the destro after the heart attack. >> Oh, that's what this was. Okay. Yeah. There's there's another letter from >> Mhm. >> like for that you have nothing to do with >> No. No. No. Oh, I have something. I have Oh, there's something I I wanted to tell you. >> You heard of Rabbi Pali. Yud Pali. You heard that name? the one that the one that spoke by the >> yes he's the head of the from he's the one that really you know was the rebu here in in Israel at first came out a big letter in 1970 big letter all his handwriting no type all of big letter all typing against me is and all that and he and then he came out Then years later uh uh couple of years later the Reb wanted him to come up with another letter. So he took the same letter that he gave out a couple years before and he wrote underneath everything that I said here in this letter from before is still validity still valid now. Okay. Then cameshin I think or maybe lame I don't remember one of these years paldi was there in America I think for keeper or orislv and the reb asked that he should get a letter from about about again about to keep that in the to keep it So, uh, I wrote up I wrote a letter and I signed it. I asked actually actually Yeah. Sometimes I would ask over the phone if I could sign in his name. He would listen to the thing and he would give me sometimes he would say, "Do this, do that." that he would he would correct it or whatever and give me permission. This is what I did here too. And I read to the I made up draw up a letter and I answer and he he he said okay he confirmed it. So I gave him the letter to Rabbi Pali afterwards. And when Rabbi Pali went into the Reb when I wrote I wrote at the end that and everybody who can do so I don't remember exactly to to help to assist to to be Okay. So, he comes in to the Reb and he shows him the letter and the Reb looks at it and he looks at him with a smile and he says, "Tell me who signed this letter." And he put a smile. And then the says, "Take this out. This is labage. This is not a labage issue. Take this out. They say this. This is know what that means, >> right?" He says, "Take out." and u that and there was something else I showed up. Okay, there's a mighty here with this this is I would say it's really the as they say in in in but before I say to myself I have to give you background understand what the context this is going back in right before 1980 before Rabbi Salvation came to the river a month before there was and there's this usually when they made it was once every seven years all the would um all the lemons in would get invitations so they wouldn't be able to come. They'll send maybe a bra or whatever. The Reb also would get a invitation and would always send the brah a telegram with a braha that year some reason by the they wanted to read the reba so there was that da that was >> yeah yeah so he said he said I'm going to let the end they read it But there was a certain time until they read it. There was you know there was rumors and rumors that he's gonna he's not letting this and this guy say this. There were rumors there were there were reporters there to them. This was a scoop. He's not letting him read the things. So the next day there was a headline that this guy from Nabra didn't allow the the the the reading of the letter. At the end they did read it but at that time they didn't know about it. They had the reporters. It was a then came to the next morning 8:00 calls me. He says listen I give us I give us go on Coca-Cola. Yeah. And this he wants to take away this from me. His mentor is raisic and ask him he should tell his student should you know keep away from it. I mean not I want you to be on the other line to be anist in case this comes to or whatever. Now, if I would have known what I would hear at this conversation between Elberg and and Salvich, I would have brought a tape. >> So, I'm the only witness here. But I tell you, it's true every word. So, I was in the other room and El was under extension and called up Rabbi Sanic and I said, "Good morning. I have wants to speak to you. Okay. So, this is the way it goes. I hear the conversation. My brother picks up the phone and he says, "Good morning. Good." I'm going to say it in English. It was the conversation was in Yiddish. So, I'll say it in English. Okay. >> Sure. >> So, he Okay. So, he says, "Good morning. Good morning. How are you?" Says, "Fine." So, I thought they were going to start speaking about the deception. So the first thing says to him, "How did you like it yesterday?" Says, "What do you mean yesterday?" >> Yeah, last night. She says, "Oh, what are you talking about? What kind of impression there was? I I was had a suffic if I should make that you make when you see 600,000." He says, "And they're all his. He's the father of the balachu movement in America. They're all >> the Yeah, they're all his. >> What can I tell you? It's Mamesh. It was I heard him speak. He knows Tanya Mal. He he he speaks Gammorus. I I I noticed he was saying there and at one time he made a mist he sort of made a mistake and right few seconds later he turned back and corrected himself and it was his mammish you know I was later told that he would have stayed longer he probably should had to go to the bathroom and he didn't want to make a big tuml to come back otherwise he would have stayed much longer >> uh it was wonderful so then says to You know Salvetic you're coming to the Reb personality like you coming to the Reb sort of diminished the G covered in the Reb month ago >> but he so he said what are you talking about? So he says, so he told him that this this was she know this and so and so who who which was she who made it for since when he what are you talking about? So he says, so says, so he says, "So what? So what made him think he's going to say this?" And yet, what are you talking about? Who are you comparing to? Like, you know, you who are you dealing with here? You know like it was a you know everything is what >> that was that was very you know I you want to ask me something else. >> So you you got called about you you made a call about Coca-Cola. You ended up hearing uh >> much more important things. >> Yeah. Listen >> I have a I have a question a general question. How did Yeah. >> How did all these and look at you like this? >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Only few knew. Everybody thought Elber is and I'm not because there were times there were times that had to tie against Elberg. They would come to me and vent vent their anger at at Elberg that he's with an interesting story. >> Your mom So your mam is undercover. >> Well, since you bring it since you mentioned that I was sent to go to conventions two times. One time the second time I was there. I remember I went into the convention to to a couple of shabas and I noticed Rabbi Dalia who was the rasha he was speaking another another rash and he knew me very well and he so I walked by and I nodded my head sort of like to say and I said good chabas you know to courtesy I said mother and he looks at me he smiles And I hear him saying I hear him saying to the rasha that he's talking to. He says, "You know who this is? This is the CIA of Labavage." >> The CIA. Since you mentioned it, I wouldn't have mentioned it. Would you just mentioned it under covers? I'm telling you. But I'll discuss. Okay. But uh well there at one time I remember remember when the reb starting whistling the first time reb started whistling and he told mayor of Syria he would tell may the would go like this that may emotion him >> the emotion. Yeah. So they there was a picture was a fab was a fab in the middle of week >> and somebody called they caught a picture and that picture was in the like this you know you know was haste I'm a five and so when there was a a meeting of you on him one time and there was a rabbi there was the he was the son-in-law of the rashy. >> Yeah. And he was there the he was a member. He didn't like so much. >> He had a he had a brother that lived in crown >> could be I don't know. And he fascit >> Oh, that's something else. Yeah. >> Anyway, so he he was sitting there and Z is sitting there too. It's a meeting of where and he was sitting there and then he says and then he looks he looks he brings out takes out and he says, "Look at this. So Zman of course was there and he says I think he said because he was Zman was was referring to the head of David for was dancing you know so says They got this guy. So he says, they're going back and forth. He says, "You know what? Let's make a deal. Whoever is right, the one who loses has to give $100. Donate $100." Now I knew that this was but isn't it a >> what? Yeah. >> Right. Right. But but but but the Rambam brings this as a riot that you should be how you should act how you should behave when doing a mitzvah or being involved in a mitzvah. Right. He brings that passing. Right. >> Mhm. >> So, and this is what Z wanted to bring out. The rebay and the Reb wants also once there's a heard you can hear it on tape where he says that if this brings people to be close to so you do it. So, you see it's a it's a thing because that's the if you're doing something right or not right. If it brings closer Jesus guide so you're doing it right if not not now then there was inshin lamemed lit I think when the reb wanted to make a a fast day for me people should have have half day fast for >> so this is wanted a fast >> yeah and he wanted should proclaim that everybody should do it. Now I'll be mala you something now that I know maybe I told it on previous podcast but that was the first time too probably he he made a shabon made the uh the the the announcement the ad that because mi we're proclaiming a half day asked and we should say these and they put their uh view that they decided people should say that that day and I took it I know they don't care about it till they care mainly about the publicity so I put in capital iron base that was capital that year so among all these uh things I put in iron So what you had that fast day that everybody was saying the rebap and even in 770 they also said this and they also said client base could be because of that or something else or maybe because I made I was very involved in that that chabas first time I was still a ber that chabas the turned where I was standing by and he head made point and he said I should at first I didn't expected I didn't think it was me because I you know I never I was a bo still and I don't remember doing anything that that warranted it but then I've said a couple of times until I was told means you say that was there's oh then there's the there's the letter where I wrote to when I was learning with Rahen or was afterwards I had stationary. is stationary and he wanted he should write a letter to the rabuntim at that time to um you know to to to urge their followers the national religious party to leave the government or to not mood. Yeah. So I drew up a letter and since this was Rahen so I had to be this you know also that when says when it comes so I wrote down the Mishna says that there's there's you listen to the one you have to listen to him and then there's a a There's the pure shag which says even if the person that has says this has a certain ulterior motive it's not you also have to listen to him because he said he said we have to listen and I wrote this letter signed his name and I sent it and I sent it a copy to the sent that time the there was no faxes at that time yet so it was sent by mail, express mail of federal to be. He would be thead. He would bring over all these letters to every actually to frame wolf and he would give it to. So I sent that I gave it over to me would send it to be and I was told later on that the Reb every hour as soon as I sent I sent in this copy of this letter that I wrote the name of Reben to the Reb. I heard later on that every hour the Reb Mecc did it go out yet? Did it go out? Did you send it to to Becca to to whatever to in Israel send it or not? >> Mhm. Well, what ended up happening? So you did this until until you moved out is >> Yeah. Yeah. I was at over there there's a whole different we have to do with I I became a Oh, you know what it is? I became a parliamentary advisor to Yuval Neman. He was a science minister and atheist. You know what that means? >> Why did my wife wanted to? So okay. >> So anyways, so I went all the way there and uh and I was and then 1982 in 1972 there was a vote in the about that's a time when Shaki if you remember if you know if you heard he voted for it and he was expelled from >> he voted for for changing the law. >> Yeah. Everybody was against him even as he was from the Mdal from National Religious Party and even the Reb where he I remember him coming to the the Reb got up for him a little sort of like >> he was a big >> well he was always called it anyway. So um he um that time now a month before Lawrence was at you know he was the guy he was rep representative of the guy and he was very very labavage he was in in America as a story this was when I was in story as a story asked me to go to him for a shabas program for I said, you know, he was so I went to him and I made a a rapport with him. He didn't know I was I made a report with him. I made a very good report with him. Now >> when when I was now when it came to this vote so word came out that a good I think a good brought up the vote to embarrass the mdal embarrassd was all politics they didn't mean you they didn't mean me >> they were trying to embarrass them in which way >> yeah so that's why I that's why I wrote the letter to saying that even if it's they they also knew the rabbi the rabbon of of mdal also knew that they're doing this despite the embarrass it's all politics one party wants to embarrass the other party. >> How is it how are they embarrassing them? Because because it's like you're not here you have a we're gonna have votes for giral you consider yourselves pro modern orthodox right you cons orthodox you're for right you're just saying you can't go out of the government because you want to preserve yiddishkite but you're from that want to preserve yudiskite and now you're not and and they they didn't want to vote for it they abstained >> and he's shaky was the only one that voted for it. They were very much against him because they didn't want to give in to to Lawrence to the Agura. But then I heard we heard that uh that a good might take remove the law from the agenda. There would be no vote on it. And the Reb wanted very much. There should be a vote. Since I knew Lawrence, I called him up. I heard about that and I called him up and I started telling him I told him who I was if he remembered you know said listen you can't remove it I heard you want to remove it by then he knew I was lab ready because he says listen no he don't no he said like this listen we don't want to remove it but if you have any connection there to the crowd there make sure you know that that they should the mdal don't pressure me pressure them now I was back with that was it was the middle of the night at that time I didn't sleep that night that same night the night afterwards the day afterwards I was going to the for myas but meanwhile the same day that morning until the I was on the phone with the reb was on the phone and all that certain point you know I was exhausted and I had to go into the I was going to the going to the I had my you have to have a there's No, this abundance there's no nothing, you know. No, you have to go to you have to make and there's no with all this with a couple hours before and was telling me to do certain things. I said, "Listen, I don't know because I'm going and the Reb is listening." So I said, "Look, I don't know. I'm going go I have to I have to go to the tonight. I let this I have to make a and I'll try to do whatever I can and all that. He pardon me. Pardon me. And I did my you know whatever to him and when I went in when I went into the Reb I didn't expect I never spoke to the Reb. I never wrote to the whenever I had it was but whenever I wrote to the was my personal if I had personal problems a personal and especially when I go into I would never speak about these things and all that so that when I went to it was only like you know and that's it. So when I went to the Reb and the Reb just he added something that he never added till now. He said this. >> Thank you very much. And it seems that there's more to say. So perhaps we could do a part two. And thank you. >> Okay. That's me.