Ep. 55: The First Jewish Event At The Kremlin with Rabbi Berel Lazar

and I agreed and I wasn't I wasn't too happy but I realized I have no choice and uh and I remember after my father comes over to me and he tells me because you listen to the reb because you you're doing it we know it's not easy you're going to get a present and he took out from his pocket a ticket and he said it you're going to the reb for tish and that was incredible kamuven from the moment I landed till mima was 24770. >> I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid our vibrant connection with theb and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. How are you? >> Okay. Thank you. >> Amazing. >> Okay. Good. Thank you for making time of your very very busy schedule. >> Not so busy. >> Okay. So, everyone knows Lazar in Russia. Um, not so many people may know a little bit about the background. We've actually published in um some information about your father but also I want to start a little bit with your grandfather that I know there's a lot of rich uh stories over there how he became connected to the rebba and also uh the poetry with the rebba so maybe you could tell me a little bit about that so first of all uh yes I remember coming to the reb for us was also staying by my grandfather that's where we used to stay And uh it was interesting to see how he became more and more of a rebel like mame every year became more and more he came from he was actually in his young years he was very connected to many many like he always used to say that was the of Israel he was there he was one of the youngest people there >> where are you talking about where is he from >> this is origin from Hungary where the exactly took place I don't remember >> in Europe >> yeah and then he actually came to America after the war he survived the whole war in Hungary, which is a miracle by itself. And when he came to America, he was looking around to figure out like what is the new what does it look like? And the way you say story walked into some 70 protest once for and you saw the dingb standing you know the way the rebs and that's it that was that was the moment that he decided this is my he was used to all these you know shaking and jumping and everything and all the know what you saw and all of a sudden he saw the the atmos of the and he said this is this is my of course it took a lot of uh changes to him to understand what Kabad is. >> He lived in Kron Heights. >> He at that time Kabir was also living near he was working near Crown Heights. What I remember I think he lived in Flatbush but he a lot of was going on in Crown Heights Kite was the center of Jewish life in those years and uh of course there were things that shocked him in Kabad. He wasn't used to it. Many things he wrote to the Reb and he >> But what's his background like? What type of Y was he? He was connected to a lot of different uh groups. I think the main thing was Sigette if I'm not mistaken. >> He's like a whatever or something something like that he was used to. And to clarify this is your mother's father we're talking about. >> Exactly. So and one of the things that made a very strong impact on him he had when he became came to America and he became more and more fume he stopped writing poetry even though in the young age when he was young he he was looking in that direction and he thought it's it it's not enough it's not and actually is the one that pushed him time after time to continue writing his poems and the gave orders in it and asked for it and many many times the reb was talking about that but it wasn't only that it was also his work and he was a certain point a principal in Asia also in biska he had mason from the reb was very interesting to see as somebody that came from such a background how connected became to the I'll give you a small example the spoke a lot about being my how many people actually did it was every Friday night we used to sit no matter what summer winter sit with and go through but was everything giving he was big big fan of the reb you could say the rebas brought a change in his whole lifestyle everything was ma and uh he became a became a certain point I mean I saw him already but he became a real real to the he would Bul and everything was incredible. The way he wrote letters to the Reba and the answer that he got >> he would write to the >> I remember bringing was turning to him and now showing him say in a big cup he had a problem drinking wine he couldn't drink wine and uh he would get if we make wine he would get sick sick for the whole week and come turns to him and says sometimes very often the turn to him and full of gloves and he had to drink the whole cup and nothing happened as if he didn't drink it was mishim on and on was >> he had a strong strong connection to the Reb but the rebark of him I remember as a b to think oh something is not the way it should be but he had big big k of him >> I'm saying but he was also it sounds like he was one of those people where where was he he published his poetry >> yeah there are three books that he published actually his poetry is being learned today in the schools in Israel and it's a lot a lot about the rabbi the rabbits and and a lot of you can see how in the years the poetry changed and the last years was mamesh practically only poems about the but like people don't understand poetry you see mameish he he was he he got it let's say and he was able to write it down and very often answer things that he wrote but the rebbit >> so I guess it sounds like he's a type of person that I'm finding through these conversations there's many people that have talents and cashness and encourage them to use them. So that was a big shock for him because when he realized that the Reb actually embraces any talent that you have whether it's somebody who knows how to draw or paint or somebody knows how to sing, somebody who knows whatever you could do use it for and for him was a shock because he thought at certain point the poetry is not a positive thing. It's it's something that you should let go of and the Reb Farer pushed him very very strongly about that. >> Okay. And moving along to your father, your father also has a similar geographical background, right? similar a little different but my father actually came to America and wasn't learning and his brother was learning but it was when he left Europe they ended up in England and they told him when you come to America go to and that they found was actually in Crown Heights was shisha and that's why his brother went to the yeshiva and uh my grandfather my father's father said if one brother goes to to shisha then I want his brother also and that's how my father ended up in yeshiva it was just because of his older brother >> so it was he wasn't like through through people like different story >> and he was very young when he came here ready to so his older brother was already old and he was already >> he was in bedford >> right >> ah so he so he was basically learning in inhib that's what happened >> right >> um so before you before your parents. >> I remember used to learn I think in Albany and Park was a storefront and uh I think that Zuri was a teacher. This is before bedford Indian >> right a few still medium and eventually I think they moved to >> so I know in the beginning they live in 770 so I guess in the shins so maybe this is the next the next time >> this was in the shins but the later shins like I think that's when he started I think >> and your father's also very famous before he went to Italy he was like the miim of the mass of ganis the whole the whole idea right >> that that story I think that that's very famous that's famous. It's also been published. We we covered it a bunch of times. >> The whole idea very very short that my father was actually running the camp was a learning director or of >> the camp of Vadas >> I think. So >> so that ga camp >> the good camp right the good camp >> because used to go there writes about it in his in his diaries that they they went there >> right so there were a lot of but he was in charge I think of the learning or maybe certain activities also but there were kids from public schools that were there in camp and at the end of the summer he convinced them to go to yeshiva and but somebody has to pay for the tuition so he went to all of the camp and he said that's not our problem we're making camp and that's it and that really he couldn't understand how could it be how could it be that they're taking care of kids make of them and then you let them go this and that's when he decided that there has to be the Bure camp and that's when he went to the Reb and whatever the story is famous and >> he fainted almost fainted almost he fell almost faint saw that he wasn't feeling well the said he should go out of the room and when you feel better come back in >> and when the Reb came to visit the camp your father was uh was right there >> right okay so then your parents got married and they went and to Italy. So, what was it like for you growing up at in in Italy? >> First of all, this of being born was of course something that we always knew, but uh I actually grew up without any I mean my age, no friends. I was the only one in the class that was uh from practically I mean all the years that I grew up and uh >> you grew up in Milan. >> I grew up in Milan. Okay. >> But it was a community and uh you know I I I felt what was going on. Of course the main thing we got at home like the understanding wasn't something I learned there was school the school that or what is called the America school but in those years wasn't Indian to speak to kids about we heard it very little in school mainly was at home. I mean of course we saw games here and there but uh but knowing that I'm growing up as a was the essence of our life. We knew that we there I'm not there to be friendly with other kids. I'm there to be mash and other kids. That was like from day one was clear that this is the goal of my life. >> So when you were a kid your parents brought you to the Reba like what was that like? >> So at that time the sedra was that you could come to the once every two years. >> There's a rule rule from the And even after two years you had to write to the reb I think even sometimes the reb was from of the tickets but for sure without getting from the you couldn't leave even after two years. So two years you knew that you're counting till the next visit. So every two years it was I mean the first times there was mish a little child I remember as a child of bringing I remember >> remember you born >> so this is like maybe >> late beginning of the more I remember like I was already six seven eight that's I remember coming to fangan and and standing there for hours but uh can move for a child to see fabbran was like incredible was like >> I imagine going Yeah, I was going to say imagine I imagine the family had >> right. So we went the whole family inus a few times. I remember small parts of it and then of course with my bit went to my mitzvah. Actually my parents sent me to the like a month before the ber mitzvah. So it was quite a while I was here at that time. That was for sure the moment that uh I saw 770 you know 24 hours a day. I wouldn't leave Sam 70 until the rabbi left and we were there early in the morning. So I was as a young kid as a 13-year-old kid 70 was amazing. >> So you ended up coming to New York when you were a bak how'd that happen? So then actually I was here mitzvah again I was going to let a little some hours of the day but mainly was in 770 and of course all of a sudden I realized that my dream is to come to to learn in America enough of this my parents areas I don't have to suffer because of it I can come to the but that's it and there's quite a famous story I said it already once twice that um by my 14th birthday was sh At that point already I was finished. I'm done. I said that's it. I'm finished. I finished eighth grade. The whole time they were telling me you have to finish eighth grade because that's the only way that the kids are going to stay in the school. If you're going to stay if you're going to leave the whole class is going to dismantle. Everybody's going to leave. These kids are going to be lost. So I had to suffer because of them sort of. We're learning in the school which was also suffering for me. I didn't want to do it. I had enough. So uh I wrote down my father told me now you can write to the Reb. So I wrote to the Reba that my parents want me to stay another year or more and I want to go to yeshiva and u the idea of my parents was again if I'm going to leave all the kids from the class are going to not continue I wrote to the that I want to go to yeshiva and of course I want to come to the if not New York then Bruna which I wrote it's close by so it's a or Israel And uh the answer that I got interesting enough you mentioned my grandfather my grandfather also wrote similar letter to the rebound the letter later >> about you. Yeah, but exactly this my grandfather was mish very strong. they have to leave Milan and come to normally sh and um and I got an answer my grandfather got the same answer that we're going to find two or three in Italy in Milan then I should stay if not to New York not to the so when I realized right away I got the answer I realized that's it there's no two or three they're going to sit and learn with me from morning to night the other kids in my class they want to continue so that's it I'm free I can go I can go to New York that's it my dream realized. Yeah. >> And all of a sudden the anash in Milan got together interesting when somebody got an answer about their community about the amaz so the whole thing became they discussed it and they said was I remember as a child then hearing that was Vish was confronting Milan Reb telling if you're going to find there are no such friends. So where's the Reb telling you like to find what you can find? Of course you can find them. You just have to find them. So our job is to find these two or three friends. because of this answer. >> So they had to look for two or three friends. >> So they wanted to make like a yeshiva. >> Oh, so that was it was a dream of gashandlas was to make ash. That was his always dream. >> I think I think um was there a relic involved in this? >> No, >> I think I think he mentioned this. Okay, go >> the story mentioned could be >> no. The idea of making in Italy was Shiva in Ital was always this the dream. He had this big dream. There's going to be a big yeshiva in Milan. And we used to look at him and think what kind of yes is yeshiva where yeshiva whiteha who are yeshiva like anyways and I was I knew I was alone in my class. So what who am I going to learn learn with? So they're not two or three friends but they said no they are we have to find them they found them. One was three years younger than me and it became my classmate and another one was that at that point nobody thought they was going to continue learning the whole day and actually he did agree and that's it. And now the Reb said two or three. So we have two plus you had the number three. That's it. We have a class. And actually Gish Mendel taught us the whole year. He was coming every morning to teach for four or five hours. I don't think he ever did such a thing like >> a lot was sitting and teaching a lot of other teachers. But then was we learned the whole day from morning to night. Ku no started yeshiva. Later there was another story with the yes is yeshiva in Italy when they actually made yeshiva but uh that's it at that point. They told me that's it. You have to stay. I mean, of course, you have to agree, but this is what we found. We found these boys and this is what the Reb wants. Kamu and I agreed. And I wasn't I wasn't too happy. But I realize I have no choice. And uh I remember after my father comes over to me and he tells me because you listen to the because you you're doing it, we know it's not easy. You're going to get a present. And he took out from his pocket a ticket. At that time the tickets were paper like these and uh >> an actual ticket. >> Yeah. And he said he said you're going to go to the for and that was incredible which was an incredible t because the after all the changes happened then but there was was still like was an incredible from the moment I landed till was 24770 like I was a dream come true at that point I realized that going back to Italy must be Like this is crazy. Like doesn't make sense. I'm here by the I'm going to go back. Anyways comes. >> So you have you thought you might not go back. >> How can I not go back? Because they want they told me they have to go back. >> They wrote to this. You don't know >> about that. The whole thing that you found two three >> Yeah, of course. Let know. Mhm. >> And then the pashas I didn't write but I believe that wrote or I don't know if anybody wrote but in the comes and my grandfather went by I was after him and I remember how it happened that we were together by and the reb stops me and looks at me and he like looks at me and says He decided to stay here and kamu and first of all we knew that you don't answer to the so what I'm going to answer and number two is what what am I supposed to say I was completely shocked I mean of course inside I wanted to stay but told me to go back and that's what I understood and ask I was shocked and uh if I'm not mistaken all of a sudden it was like speaks to somebody speak like whatever and my grandfather came back I think pass the second time. My grandfather who wanted me very very much to stay in New York, he felt that going back was uh crazy at that time. So he tells the rebels mask him. It was amazing that on this part he realized that it's his chance to get a >> he interjected as it >> right and Reb was pouring the wine facing the crowd like the the Reb stopped pouring there and turned around and started pouring on the on the back was cl the was like can't say upset but the reb was telling me clearly that was like like >> so that's how that's how you understood it >> that for sure for sure was clear the wasn't asking to stay here and that was as it wasn't yeah I was dreaming that that somehow could happen but made clear that's not what he wants and then I went back already and it was an amazing year amazing year but wrote it about a year that was the the a year later gave me already knew that it's not it's coming to the for I mean Elite already came here and that's it. >> Elim. That's when you came to stay >> right. >> So where did you go? >> So I went to Ocean Parkway and um >> How old are you? You were >> How old was I? 15. >> 15. So you went to Ocean Parkway. >> So I was in two years in Zal in National Parkway which was amazing. was Rabbi Ushbal, Rabbi Buket, Rab Labovski was Dan Hollen used to come for bringing >> Oh, he still used to come to bring and teach and was there in Ocean Park. They used to send a lot of people talk about how they were sent from 107 to >> and that was the only they got to reel to give them shim used to come give shim to the so used to sneak in and then to come for bring for the holy sh sometimes. Mhm. So just give me a little bit the lay of the land and then we'll go back there. So, so you you're in Ocean Parkway and then Mimal was in Ocean Parkway and then actually the end of Mimal at that point decided we're going to go a group of Ban said we're going to go to Teras that was considered then the Shiva know if you're trying to move the Shiva told me clearly they're not give me at that time I don't know how it is today but that time you wouldn't be able to go leave the yeshiva without you can't switch to different isha without no ish to take you unless The previous gave permission >> and the said you can't remember having conversation and they told me was is good. I said good is good. He said no and I was supposed to go to Marsan. That was the original plan and then all of a sudden started this whole idea again about the yes is yeshiva in Italy. They decided that this is a moment to study yeshiva in Italy. There was a lot of local bim that would have been ready to go to yeshiva and not go to university or whatever if they would have opened the yeshiva and they drove me crazy that I should go to to go to Italy was actually before maran normally all the end of maran 3 years later told me no you're going to go now it's was like a lot of in and out but we went out there was and then was supposed to be a year was a year and as usual after the year they said you can't leave it now you have to continue otherwise yes is going to fall apart so we went back for half a year then was there was going to be for half a year before we went we went gave us and everything and one time before that's it we knew that's it the is over we said a year then half a here and then again said no you have to stay another half a year how could we stay it was so the was are you sure that you fulfilled everything that the told in the are you sure you you did everything that the said >> kids are in back and forth >> a trap >> yeah back and forth the was we should write to the and whatever the says we're going to do so of course we wrote a letter to the we showed it to him and he said and the letter was that we're ready to to stay till the end of the and says no it's not the way he read it we're ready to go back to that's the way he write it to the so of course we added those words and the answer was crossed out no if if not underlined to live so we stayed another few months and And then that's it. That was then later I went for one year to Marsan but I told another right away that's it. My two years of being away from the I did >> you did already. >> I did and more than was agreed. So after Maran I'm not going to go to I said clearly you want me to send me to Australia whatever it was. I said clearly I'm not going anywhere. It doesn't make a difference. I had my whole life I was in shikhas. I was two years in now I'm in 770 and uh they realized that's it there's nobody to talk to and I came to 770 and of course they didn't want to let me in because I was only 20 years old so at that time he didn't allow bam come 20 years old was mish I had a call within didn't want to accept me as a talmid app I made a deal with him that I'm going to be every morning 7:30 by I won't miss one day every morning he used to come and check on And they led me to 770 and it was in 770 from even meal when I was in Maran. You did every shabas whatever >> every shabas I came to >> every shabas >> every and I was never shabas in marstone I don't know what >> I was in mar and I was here by the every shabas but told me one shabas you must stay so I was only one shabas in marstone >> I never saw shabas in maristan I don't know what it looks like and actually the reason that they let me go was because if there would be a surprise forin I would over the inh that was at night every in any case any shab was abran I used afterward. So that's why they gave me permission every Shabbas to go in case there's a surprise for bringing I'm going to be the at least be able to after Shabas I should come back right away. So that was >> from Z7 till end of it was in 775 years. >> Oh wow. So let me ask you about let me ask you about that. So I want to hear about the years that you're in 770 and Maran 770 but before I get there. So you're coming from Italy and yet you come here and then you leave but what like what was it like that all of a sudden you're buy like what what was that what was that like for for you? No. First of all already from Toshim I was I was big in a certain way when it was in we were in parkway of course and we used to try whenever we had a chance to come interesting me maliff you'll see there were many many surprise for bring and I remember like we used to be like already say that we used to here that's it surprise for bringing surprise we used to run the street grab the first car and run at 770 was We were more living in some 70 than in like I give you Friday coming back from right away 70 m. We were the whole night in some 70 when there was the famous revolution, right? So I was there in 770. We stay around 770 the whole time. Like any free moment we were in 770. Of course we had we had to learn ish but the the I don't know the free time. What does the ba do in the free time? You go some 70. You run 770 for M and 770 for whatever whenever you were able to run and be able to come 70 that was the any moment was for example Pes and never went home and of course tish nothing to talk about but I didn't want to go home that's why I was to be here and everything I never went home for Pes there was not such a thing when I from I left Italy I never was back home for Pes I knew that I came to the that's it's uh there's nothing else and that's why leaving for those two years was very very very hard was mamesh heartbreaking I decided that's it I'm not going to do that ever again and then come to 770 already that was incredible actually mdal already maristan was I could say that then we were mamesh mgb in 770 it was like uh you know the whole everything was around 770 >> so you you mentioned that you did kazada in in the Shiva. So I mean young you're a young bak at that point. But I'm think right away you you you were able to to to focus and and make sure you understanding the and like >> I look back now I say I didn't understand anything. I was very stupid and but uh yes we tried first of all if there was a winter months I used to go to afterwards and then come back to the yeshiva sometimes when there was a surprise for it and was ready so late and the holy is waiting so I didn't even have time to go to so but they say there was that after the everybody sit around the >> you're saying the isab actually used to make right away after the used to sit with >> no in his house >> but also wherever people went they said there was the finished and that's it what was the first second everything we went through everything again and then was the big official which with a tape and writing it down but right away after the so it was automatically that like And when you knew that you have to make you also heard in a different way which is within also it's not only because you're trying to remember remember to say and so you're concentrating on remembering sometimes you're not concentrating so much on >> understanding but in in a certain way it's also a certain bit because you want to hear the you don't want to like understand it like and then you're going to process it and you're going to get to it. It's hard to explain to somebody today, but once it was a Fabran and Shabas, the whole week the coke was an incredible coke in the liquid. They came out the whole week was non-stop the liquid in the pockets. You had the liquid and this like let's say wait people learn Rambam let's say right and you have to you have this any free moment you're going to learn Rambam and was the whole concept that I remember I had used to tell us in the pocket >> we used to say why do we have pockets in our jackets have one pocket one pocket and that's where you live the whole the whole mish the whole week and the was not only about learning it was artist and and >> you were involved with the artist. No. >> Yeah. March and that year that was in the the artist which was an amazing year for artist was probably the year of artist. >> So explain a little bit about what what the artist is. The artist is there were different artists was 70 started the artist originally but actually those year Malid was very very almost didn't go out. Then there was the artist of artist of Maran. By the way, the reb gave a roy between the different artists. So they shouldn't be copying in you know it should be but that year it was a >> huh what do you mean they should be >> that they shouldn't print the same ideas and if somebody has a sh in one place they shouldn't answer >> unique they should be >> they should be coordinated but was incredible first of all what that pushed was you heard it again and again wanted people sharing right 99% of artists in those years was in and so mainly was in that was mainly the artist somebody once people started sorry started laughing that's what the artist is all about like put into was a different special place that mamesh wanted Bhan to to put in a lot of said that you go to you show but was the place late last memorial and and somehow that year was an incredible in all the years you saw the came down Friday night in the back of the cedar was all the cave and by mamish Look at the cave to You can see the reba was mish readings art after art and he used to think you know he used to try to watch maybe the order that I wrote the is reading it and like and what is the going to talk about on shabas and >> because the interacted with the artists right >> almost every spoke about order and if speak about then shab the cit came out to the with arrow sent with co one of the special special thing was that the seder was that who got in those years nobody There was no such thing getting >> unless you wor in the or >> or in the or in or the only people that got and all of a sudden you're getting of the because the Reb sent it to the was an answer to that all the answers you know the mas showed you what the Reb wrote you were able to mic and that's it and the Reb took it back and came this came to the but the and the whole and Reb spoke for bring and and Shin Russian And then the whole week was a co to try to find the sh and then after everybody wrote all their and everything hundreds of people they were the whole week try to figure out the answer comes shabas and he gives an answer which is completely like >> it's very interesting that also like was like teacher was like sharp like sharp with like that sharp wasn't the word sharp and every The knocked outb was trying to gave and everything. All of a sudden you keep on answering these answers which are out of the what are you answering like are we talking about what are you and the the answers of the Reb were like mindboggling like was incredible to see how the Reb give answer that nobody to think about. I mean one of the famous ones was about and what what's the why should they they gave so many different answers from before was the whole week the whole was like who's going to get the answer is going to come and say oh finally somebody got the answer why was the answer why because from the h is the one that actually is like he makes this >> barks >> barks on the le and even though it was that it didn't happen I mean only the rabb like the famous thing is Frank no the rabband >> can I think the always says a lot of times that the things are so pit therefore nobody realizes realizes it and that's the We're not not using your >> wanted to start understanding. It's very interesting that I think is talked about enough that that the was interacting with the like >> I tell you even more than interacting if you want to say it in a way the the whole was waiting for the was like built this wasn't just okay he's going to come made it and every word was like it's incredible to think of the way not only moving thousands of people in the room, no microphone, the noise from the air conditioners and everything and you could hear a pin drop and but the the attention even though the spoke about many times bringing and but the truth is I mean I'm sure meant there was one person sleeping bothered the m but the alum was it it's incredible to imagine how focused you are for five six seven eight hours it's like today when you watch Fbran and you know people watch a whole fabbran and and people don't have the patience to sit through a whole fabbran. You're talking about fabbran after fabbran after bringing and the amount of information you have to also internalize it and and and live with it and it was incredible incredible how the was able to every come I remember as a as a young kid I used to say more or less he repeats the same things time after time there's no there's nothing new okay he's going to it's to hear it again there was not once the repeated the same thing by The already said once before there was no such a thing ever. every was and and to get this information and to try to grow with this information was incredible like from everything everything I mean there's certain moments and talking about you know being with certain moments there were and those was was just incredible just to be able to watch it for a second right and you're there for time after time but um there was nothing like abran as much as all these gil you want to know the atmos of the was incredible they used to scream by for hours people don't realize the whole 770 and you could hear the reb anywhere you were standing and and and and the reb was mamish gigos gigosen everything in so and but what's what's interesting is that for us today and I mean you don't that's not available for for us but the are available >> right but I they're available but it's not the same I don't want to make anybody disappointed but watching bringing in a video and watching being it's two worlds it's >> explain why >> because uh I I give just an example when from the moment that the started people also don't later lately I've seen people mix it up there's a when you say there's a says it's when the says they seem to do it for some reason yeah >> but when the by me till today when I hear the I get a shiver mameish till today you have no idea what happened in the room at that moment it wasn't like you felt that's it the is coming down not only you see the face changed completely like went into a different I don't know how to call it mode world whatever the rebb till then reb was talking to us and then you see that the reb's somewhere else from the moment that they started singing the niggan wasn't only and uh and that's it. And when the Reb started singing the M was like you it's it's impossible to describe what it means here you know it's like was if normally you say you know there's no gashmi it's like it's something else so you try to see that through a video it's impossible you can't uh >> among is brought to you We live in a chaotic world. [music] A world where for us is a we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. Yet we know that the is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it. provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. Whether it's the monthly magazine, the way it all began, whether it's their hair books, their hair online content, and so much more, men, women, and children throughout the world benefit and use these tools on a daily basis. Whether it's children enjoying the children's magazine that comes along with the regular dehair or enjoying the children's podcast. 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So you're basically what I'm hearing is that in your mind the primary I don't know what we call it of the is like primarily the >> for sure if you're talking about the way the rabbi changed us was through >> you you're talking about the interaction >> the experience or you talking about the what the rabbi was saying >> everything the fbranian I And everything else was amazing to be to dollars. Everything was incredible. Like every to watch the walk in 770, walk out of 770 and uh anything that happened like whatever happened was incredible. But the the feeling that the reb is changing you and and the feeling that you are mameish connecting with the in a very pimical way is for sure the fbran nothing like it after every fbran you have to understand that in those days people didn't fing too much didn't forbr thing was after every fbranian people used to walk out and like be drunk was after every FBrion, but you felt and you saw it in the air. You saw it like was like, "Wow, this was incredible. This was like never there was never such a fraion ever." like every was there never such fang ever and and the whether whether the first the second was was like incredible was mish like so let me ask you maybe there's um throughout your years in 770 are there I don't know one or two or three particular fabingans that stick out in your mind as that had that that were I don't know very had a big hashbah and a big change a new like something that sticks out. for sure in our years was that first of all of right and of course but was only the kinus was we sometimes before and after but in those the the way the came back to it again and again not only the lness of and the idea of and the way the showed that you know there's nothing better than from our class everybody went out on there's not one person didn't go on wasn't shak Like the was and like like the saying the last in the youths like the and then slowly there were a lot of other themes on the table right and then in the middle of the mems that's when again picked up and became theme every forbidding was about and everything >> the late the later mems >> yeah I'm talking about when I came to7 started and of course was like was the and and every was another bombshell about like felt that teaching you how to do and how to what what it means to go as and where you see in the m was like you know all the pares told this it was ongoing was like uh that for sure was the one of the highlights but then uh depends if you look at again there's memor that was to here and then there was sometimes fabbran spoke about Indian and went another went on and people had shlist and the reb to going back and whether was the start in the kin or was again the rash anything was was just incredible was uh so you you were maybe I'll ask you about this a little bit I mean you lived through the whole um of >> right I didn't live through it we were in some 70s so that's >> you were there your body was there and shaman was there and all shamas were there your body was there >> so >> I mean this is something you can speak about for hours the whole uh the whole situation but first of all people today after the people take it for granted there should have been the truth is wasn't that wasn't like nobody understood even how it's going to be such an like the whole worry for sure the whole >> I heard from I heard from other people different things like >> no this was sure listen the people that understood you spoke to people that were involved they didn't know how this is going to end You have to understand that somebody that is poor and he's asking give me a little like um I have no money. Why did he take this for him? Because he wanted to sell them. He wanted to make money. So on one end you have somebody that is claims that he wants to get a he wants to get something. He didn't get anything. He got zero and then this is this know community has endless amount of uh >> resources >> resources and and just give me a little money and that's it. like uh and uh and then and any shaft will try to make some kind of like today you see like you don't go 100% on one side and then it was the whole question it's going to be a jury won't be a jury and then they took the when sift name came up was a big big discussion is it good for us not good for us move on and then came the time of the mishb of this the biggest they were supposed to testify for us it wasn't easy I mean practically most of them failed. I don't want to show them saying names but because it's not easy to explain this what was trying to be brought out. I mean everybody talks today about the rebbiton's the position whatever it's called. It was above and beyond any of all the big mumim that were prepared for hours and everything and nobody did such a job. Nobody was able to bring out the >> seame. The guys that got up on the stand >> right and and the cross- examination wasn't easy. These lawyers are professional people to bring you to a corner and then you're stuck and then and and you can't lie and you can't you have to it wasn't easy. You're sitting there in the in the hall. I was there every day. I was lucky because all the it was a girl who could go in were getting very upset at the Lab. We took over the whole place. It was like uh so 70 moved to the courtroom and there was noise and everything and we had and they were saying listen what look what they're doing and everything but whichever from the Israelis that was he couldn't understand anything what was going on so they gave me their place I was there every day >> what do you mean >> the way there was I mean there was some that came every day and sat in the front row and then there were a certain number of seats for the Bahim. So let's say there were 25 places for Bharim. So from the whole 770 they made a girdle which Bhim could go in to be there during the hearings. So when the name of Israeli Bhan came up, what would he do? He would go in and not understand anything. So they asked me I should go in and write down what's going on and send out. So the whole >> So I was there writing down everything and every page that was written up I sent it out. >> So you're they were passing on your papers. >> Yes. Yes. So they went out from the courtroom the broom waiting outside to hear what's going on. So I had to write quick and finish a paper and send it out. Write and send it out. That's how I got the place to be inside. So I was there for all the years. >> You're the man of the circus. At that time we thought that actually we didn't even understand that they're writing a standogram and then we thought they were going to publish this one day and then said to the migillas that was mamish very strong against we had a plan that we're going to print encyclopedia of the with everything the issues that were discussed by the >> by the way till today I mean people have it but it's not all the >> didn't want it. Yeah, >> I'm not sure they wanted all this for him but they done not so they came out a whole bunch of sword today bunch of some sort and came out but the whole court case about it the story I don't I'm not sure that that's what wanted whatever it's to hear the again and hear the was very very sharp not to >> whatever but um to expect that the sag would be the way it was I I don't think too many people expected such And you have to understand wasn't only we're going to win or not win. There was the whole lubab on the stake if right when I understand that there would have been impossible but if would have lost wouldn't didn't take this is the issue of this wasn't a serious was everything was like and everything from it was clear that this is going to be like right >> you could hear me saying it was talking to >> right but was screaming You could you were able to hear it >> mamesh came over and he trying to calm the downb was and >> so what did he hear that was said all the but the was about wasn't about and um and to expect such very few people I mean I remember going on the train to the court case and they had to prepare like they were working over time like the day before was a hearing and then they have to work the whole preparing for the next hearing we're going to be the next and and trying to get as much as they can and says to do one thing and then they listen to the reb they should say what the reb says in it wasn't the's argument wasn't a you know normal court case argument pill can proven you know whatever said that's what happened. So you're saying that the the great symptoms of >> I'm saying big they were very very worried very worried >> and you're saying because of that that explains the the tremendous of >> I say because it's the same way that you speak about that that was a moment if notus would have ended I believe that if again would have been impossible same way to without it wouldn't have been impossible. >> I don't I don't think people understand what that means. Why? >> Why? Because this was as if you're saying as it Lubich stopped existing. So the whole afterwards is not really it's not really the truth. It's not really it has to be has to be that the world recognizes as the is the and if you come and say that it's a mean is not the that's the so it wasn't about who's going to get this for him was about where's the will the world recognize that is the and again the could have made nobody knew about it he got this for him and and that's it and nobody would have known nobody should have kn the way the world runs people would have suggested to the reb. >> They did, I think. No. >> Yeah. I'm saying and and that's it. Let's keep it quiet. Buy back this. The guy's gonna have some money and that's it. Nobody's gonna hear no, no talk, no no danger, no risk. So the mat where am I saying it? That the the was incredible. I mean I give you a certain point the B decided they're gonna say till every day for us six o'clock in the morning 770 was packed every single day 6:00 to 7:30 till >> the only time in history >> no there was another time after >> oh okay after spoke the yeah >> that was 70 was >> but 6:00 in the morning >> right >> 6:00 after mikvah 70 was act every single day. And uh again the was incredible. you saw the and everything was like was not a kuf but um >> so the moment of was like a burst of >> for sure >> relief was first of all just you should understand was border by us that mash is coming in five minutes it wasn't the same way that Remember was it that's it is coming like people were waiting any moment when is it going to happen was over and didn't come so then oh it's going to be like and then and it's really didn't come was like a shock like we were so sure but after after was clear as mash Like people thought that it with the we're going to go into the was this was like the biggest ever sadly. to what he say about that >> that uh [panting] the question of adm is it's a strong question has no answer >> see that that was a that was a height a hype that u we felt that I mean spoke then was even greater than greater than everything but we felt that we are not only witnessing you know or whatever like this never happened in history. It was like you were there a moment of uh actually it was interesting because with the whole everything when when they announced the reb will come down to like >> we didn't expect that to happen in those few hours >> ded upstairs >> no was ding upstairs over I'm saying but even the reaction of the reb to the surah we heard away the way the masim came out and like and We were going crazy and and all sudden downstairs also the we thought this will be some of you know and everything and was there and saved the situation started saying I mean the spoke >> after spoke and was also >> which it's interesting Because actually the Reb said this other times that it's the that explained but other times it says that I think you know. Yeah. But I heard the Reb said other times also before this. So so >> but the word was like that was the Gushbank. Okay. You know you guys are crazy but >> you guys are doing the right thing. I mean listen but people talk about it that the's reaction wasn't on the same wavelength as but the said every night then right and also the there was the upstairs in 70 about writing to the and everything I mean for sure was like but if the sim was the way that expected there should be the sim people were like we didn't go back to our rooms we were like in 770 or 770 or whatever was a week later we came back to our room. We didn't recognize like when we left like was uh so I think it doesn't make sense for me to sit with you and not ask you about in in Russia. So I want to know a little bit about how it began and also like I mean this was all at the time of before the fall of communism and after the fall of communism. I mean I when I was growing up this was like it wasn't this wasn't stories that people were living through this or like it was fresh but I think by by today I don't think people people take it for granted that there was there was the whole mativ and there's how it happened. So how did you get involved in this and how how did it start? Now first of all even it was a little kid you saw in the and we heard and what's going on in Russia was was a known thing that this is mish the same way there's mudi and there's there's Russian Jews like this was the issue that was mamish and and he saw the reb crying when spoke about Russian need and what's going on Soviet Union was I mean you had to be know Evan that when Reb spoke about what's going on wouldn't touch you the Reb would cry front of the like in ways that and nothing else I don't think there was anything else that Pashet cried and you saw like the V took and um going back to how did I get involved? So first of all the whole of in Lubavich was about that number one and of course hearing stories about what's going on not what was mo what was going on in those years you know people used to hear hear in bits and bar levy coming back and showing the videos and then cats going to Russia and then different stories of then when some people started coming out of Russia I remember when came to 770 and other they came out it was like this uh very very everything was no secret. Everything was quiet. Nobody could know anything. But then all of a sudden the reb started sending more and more mainly raonim to Russia. So was uh again people used to go up to get mashka and they didn't announce anything. So >> everyone knew >> everybody more or less thought that probably that is that but you can't even talk about it. Yeah. Not a lot of talk and kimu starting from in Russian and then they spoke in Russian some 70 nobody understood a word they were speaking to everybody understood that something is going on something is happening so I believe that every bok then had a dream that maybe one day they'll go to Russia and they started sending bim certain point started sending bim I don't think there was any boh in some in those years they didn't have a dream that will be So when they asked me of course right away I said I'm ready to go but you have to get shoes from shoes from the parents and then right to the and uh actually when I went was a because what happened till then they used to send mainly and used to come for to Russia for a week giveim and then a few months later another came mashia whatever and again >> who is who is there who who are they going to >> they're going to all the first of There were still very few but there were some that stayed right mainly but also there a few more and they made the bal more or less they're the ones that convinced young people they were interested to start learning but nobody was teaching them. So the biggest problem they had that there was nobody teaching is to bring upon him mainly to teach. But each came with his shim and he gave whatever somebody else something else and then uh and he used to leave and then next came and then he gave shan on a different topic. So people were getting all mixed up like how could you learn such a way so they decided they're going to start a yeshiva the shiva will be meeting in apartments on wheels every day somewhere else but the and the could come to and start learning and so when I went actually that was the first group that started going for a month and a half the idea was to teach and then the new group would come and take over and that this way you have almost the whole time you have teachers And they're learning they started learning like like but already learning already like with whatever there were people that were very very intelligent and and moved on. So the main thing was actually teaching that was our if raon was also pasing sh and ishu else was mainly from morning to night teaching the people there and uh that's it and then groups of bam started going so it became a very very in thing to go to Russia every month a new group went and to go three times as a ber so it was normally people went once and that's it was enough for them like they had the experience. >> They did it. >> They had the experience and it wasn't an easy experience. You have to teach from 6:30 7:00 in the morning to 1:00 at night and the whole time you're on this and you have to prepare for it. You can't just come and teach. The people there were very very intelligent. People used to all of a sudden out of the blue ask between here and there and like as much information as you had that's how you managed to get through and and uh that's it. And then after we got married so years later the we wanted to go right after we were ready to go. >> So you somehow connected to the Indian of Russia you went back numerous times and then so that's you decided you're going there permanently. >> I I went there many times as a ber three times which was very rare in those years but I was very very connected to the people there. Even when I came back when I had the lunch break in Nishib, I used to run to which was the organization that was in touch with the people there. I used to call and ask them what do you need, what can we send and what are the problems and whatever. I try to shoot them on the phone, >> right? So when you're here, you were on the phone with them, >> right? And getting a phone line was also very difficult. You had to order it was a whole wasn't easy. And uh one of the things was also sometimes the shist to the reb so they could ask me and then I would send in the settle. So whatever was very special to be connected to these I believed. >> So you were you were giving over answers from the >> not all some things went but was very very special to be connected to these people. MSM. The amazing thing was that they never saw the but they were in an incredible way like everything for anything like the new came. So they all gathered to be able to have a phone call and hear the niggan and then everything every what the speak about was like they wanted mish incredible thirst to hear what's going on but they were mish disconnected. So we felt that we try to give them as much as we can. After me and my wife wrote to the Reb, they were ready to go on to Russia and the community there was asking us to come and said no. That the first year answered to be mit. So it was more about my wife than about me. She they should be in a community that has n >> I guess because Russia is a wasteland a year later >> she stayed she stayed in K went to K >> and then that was tough shinon which was also that we spoke then so much about Russia prefer that was to speak about Russia about the the problems and the and then breaking this iron curtain and then they start speaking about the niss that we see which was incredible they once used the skulta what's going on in Russia. >> Crazy. >> And then um >> so so when you moved there was was right after the fall. >> No, was before the fall was still the Soviet Union was still communism but it got much easier. When I first came the first time which was then was the beginning beginning you saw the beginning nobody believed it's actually happening and it's true. Nobody understood what it meant that they saying, you know, these words glasnness to prestroke or whatever. They're going to make changes. Nobody believed there going to affect religion or whatever. They wanted to show Ku that they're open, but there's still going to be communism. Communism and communism was still there. And the Soviet Union was there and was there. So there were some we saw some changes, but with mish nothing compared to what the Reb was saying it's going to happen. And a and while you were there that's when the whole thing >> and slowly you saw big changes and then once we moved there so it was actually was an incred was once we were already there but the reboke then kanuka live in the >> I was I was going to ask you about tell >> so what happened I mean there was first kanuk live was actually when I wasn't there yet was shaun kanuk shaun and they did it then in the shul was not such a big crowdf was already we took a big hole the fier part of the television station where the central television station is so we could have a satellite it will really work well and there were a few hundred people was still a fier small and then came non base kanuk base and that's when we thought let's do it big so we had this idea what's the biggest hole the biggest hole was in the Kremlin It's a hole that has 6,000 places and I had somebody helping me and I told him that it said we want to do it there and this person actually said you know what we could try. The only one that can give permission is garbage. He has to sign it and that was the first religious event in the Kremlin. >> Wow. >> We're talking about the Kremlin which was fighting religion all of a sudden gives permission to make a religious event. When we finally got the permission and actually Gorbach himself signed gave permission for it then they were they started screaming at me that I'm crazy how could I do such a thing mishuga in the Kremlin and the rabbis is going to speak in the Kremlin I felt at that time that >> what was their opposition >> because it's place of tumor I don't know it's a place that is not fit for the >> they don't understand how >> it was a big city I'm not going to say their names they were mameish screaming screaming they were mameish like uh and uh I decided that's it. I'm going to write to the Reb. And I wrote the whole thing to the Reb. The people are saying maybe we shouldn't do it, but we already ordered the place. We already have the place and we feel it's going to be a big big and the answer was ask which I didn't understand what it meant but asked then label as what does it mean? He says if the didn't want it to happen the would have told him not to do it. asks go ahead and have the which was a miracle the way everything happened. But uh there was 6,000 places in a few hours all the tickets were sold and then people were trying to buy the tickets ready to pay mugan amount of money in those years to get into the Kremlin. When the event actually happened that night there were probably 15,000 people trying to get into the into the hole. There was a anti-semitic demonstration like 50 people standing there were not going to let the Jews step on the holy stones of the Kremlin. It was like a but after spoke in the Kremlin that's when the Soviet Union fell apart and there was a then >> what do you mean I thought it was before this in the base you're talking about that's when the that's when the flag of the Soviet Union came down from the climate. >> My whole history is is needs refreshing. So I so the the the end of the fall of communism was in the base. >> Yes. The official ending of the Soviet Union >> they took the flag then >> that was after the spoken >> a week later. I mean you could look at the date and look at the six of the whole of and and Russian the revolution everything was if you look at the then of those weeks around base you see mish telling what's going to happen >> right and you can see I mean the whole thing and we can see that the's attentiveness the way the is looking in the video >> that was incredible >> and and I can imagine for the people >> the first time that the people saw the reb talking about a whole of 6,000 people the first time they're able to see the reb in in Russia but the whole we put up signs in the city of Moscow about this concert is going to happen and it was the Reb is going to speak live from New York >> and then the streets of Moscow you have the Reb's name on a big sign and tickets tickets are going to be sold you can't sell the tickets on your own you have to sell the tickets through the whatever through the Kremlin uh >> offices >> offices was like in three hours you couldn't find a ticket was like crazy with mammish So when you went to Russia, you had in mind I mean you you you thought that that this was going to happen or you had no idea at the time. First of all, we went to Russia was was the first moment that we got permission to go there for more than just a tourist visiting. In the first times we went as a ber we were tourists officially supposed to go touring and they were following us KGB after us and staying in the hotel. You had to pay crazy amount of money because you were official tourists. What we were doing weren't allowed to do it really and um used to sneak out of the hotel and then take the metro the train because you can't take a taxi because the tax is also KJB people. they're going to see where you went and people the local the main thing wasn't us was risking putting the people the local people in a risk but uh thinking there's going to change the local people told us clearly nothing is going to change like don't even dream that things are going to change was clear like the even though they heard messages from the Reb that the Reb said things are going to change the people there said clearly like the Reb is talking about the Indian in >> but but you you thought you thought that what mean the Reb said it's going to change or like whatever I don't know. >> We didn't understand what it means going to change. Like we thought, okay, it's going to change. So it won't be so tough. There won't be a KGB next to each home of each and uh and you couldn't talk to people in to walk into Shuli, tell you can't talk to this person because the KGB is going to call him tomorrow and interrogate him and he's going to say what happened and like we after being there for a month and a half, you were afraid to talk. You got into the plane and we knew that's it. We left Russia took time to realize you know what you can start talking you're under this fear that they put you into this from the moment you land they make you understand that they know exactly who you are and what you're doing and we're following you and uh be careful so to think that it's going to change such a way okay we'll change something is going to change but the happened in afterb spoke I mean you look at the is mainly talking about Russia like was incredible. So what happened later with the mist with the buildings with with the whole taking over that for sure was not >> nobody dreamed that uh that for sure nobody expected such a >> change in in the country that was the biggest anti-semitic country in the world that today is probably one of the safest place in the world for Eden >> Eden >> and and everything is like somebody asked like what do you have besides It's like so what what's besides >> another >> so the whole thebish like the crazy thing is that this was something that the was from the this was so near near and dear and important place by the rebba and then this uh and how it all transformed. So let me finish let's finish off but I want to ask you one last question. You mentioned that the I mean the Reb said it's one of the gula the the fall of the iron curtain and and everything. So some people ask the Reb spoken at the gula things are changing and right the whole communism fell without a war so is the is the world getting closer to that or we're not now we're back to muham like is not here 35 years like what's happening here so I'm not a maven to understand what's going on in the world for sure and for sure not to be a but this is the way I always think lately I've been thinking about this a lot like what is the first of all it's very interesting when you start thinking about it what is the almost every in those years mainly but also started the is sharing with the news what's going on in the world when was the telling what happened in the UN what happened to this meeting and what they read and what they what they said and what they wrote and what what for bringing the news like this doesn't make sense on one end and other handb is speaking about things and everything like that that's it like dismantling all the and you see what's going on today it's mish the opposite like it completely turned around the is wasn't fulfilled I think that the wasn't telling us the news the was telling us what is what has to happen was telling us at that moment was the beginning of the mat and now has to happen now has to be our work in order to make this happen to make this a reality. So the Reb gave in in invest that this is the mitz the mits and mitus of the world is the way the helm is going to go away and it's going to be gillus did it happen no we're not the should happen we have to has to be the whole of in all the from first of all from the first and then the first of it's all about the in order to make this what the ghoul is all about. So all this is telling us the way it's going to be is telling us understand what is it going to be that says exactly this the way it's going to be and is telling you not the news is not going to tell you something's going to happen now is telling you this is the plan this is the way they should bring everything down Now start working now make it happen. So it's our turn the reb's words that come there should be our we should be the caim to be this. So for sure that the world is ready for this. For sure the gil already took place now has to be the has to be the >> now we have to do it >> right >> to say >> and when says learning of what does it mean that once becomes yours it's not only the said learning is learning the right but once it's not only the saying the it's you learning the internalizing and becoming you then that's the gula Okay. Now, thank you