Ep. 54: Shortly After Discovering the Rebbe, He Was Contributing To Chazarah with Rabbi Eli Touger

Everything all these things that ever pushed it but they never said something but when thought how to apply it we got it done. That changed Lubavitch into oh When Rebbe says something he means it and we mean it. We're going to try to get try to make it happen. And it was it was semi new at that time. I mean like no People been talking like this but they never did it. Now we did it. >> I'm Yossi Chaim Men. Welcome to Among Chassidim by the Rebbe an ongoing fabrengen about life as a Chassid our vibrant connection with the Rebbe and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Shalom Aleichem Rabbi Tauber how are you? >> Baruch Hashem Baruch Hashem. >> Okay thank you so much. >> My pleasure. >> I am very curious I know I know much about you through your works there's the sichos sichos in English and the Rambam and many other projects. I am not so familiar with your background and I'm curious um you weren't born doing sichos in English right? So how so what what what what was the what was the story? Where where where were you from and how did you uh how did you start coming to where you are today? >> Okay look all stories are stories. Family comes from Borisov. Borisov has a long history in Lubavitch. It's [clears throat] a small town about 50 viers at a at a Minsk. Don't ask me what a viers is that's about it a kilometer or so. So Borisov is is a small town 50 viers Minsk >> [clears throat] >> from Minsk. It was a Lubavitch town. Ber Berisov was a well-known Mashpia. My family grew was there for many generations. They were the Khabat Hasidim. I've got a total of 100 from my from my my alter zayda. Rengaza. The real gaza, the roots, the core. That said, >> That's so interesting. >> Our family came to America in 1905. 1905, when you came to America, there was no official Lubavitch in America. The Khabat shuls all over the place. Unfortunately, most of those Khabat shuls are no longer Khabat shuls. Shuls because there wasn't any official uh leadership really until the Fiddler came out became couple years before that slightly but not really with Rabbi Jacobson came. But, as such, there there wasn't that much much background around for Hasidus. So, the family became American. I grew up conservative, you know, strongly right-wing conservative Jew on Long Island. But, you know, we we knew of Torah mitzvahs. We kept a lot of it. We didn't keep a lot of it. It's about the best That's the nicest way of saying it. I grew up I grew up in 1960s [clears throat] I mean, I was born in 1950, grew up grew up quote unquote in 1960s. I don't have to tell you what what was going through America at the end of 1960s. It was a whole >> have any Khabat Khabat identity at that point or not I mean, you didn't even know about it growing up? >> I my grand my father I remember driving through Crown Heights at one point. We were going to Brooklyn for whatever for whatever purpose. My father points to 770 and says, "We come from here." But, he didn't tell me anything more about that. He didn't That's just He said, "We come from here." And I didn't understand what he meant by that. He didn't want to explain it to any further, I guess. And he left us He left with that cryptic statement. So, in in a nutshell, I met the Lubavitcher Rebbe. >> When you were like a teenager? >> right before age 20. At that point, many Americans were looking, searching. This is You know, the the Rebbe spoke more than anybody else really about definitely in the Jewish world about looking for American searching youth. Like, I wasn't hearing those signals at that time, but yeah, he was speaking about me and my generation. Like, Jewish American youth at that time, we were fueled with the '60s was was full of idealism, full of energy, wanting to change. On the other hand, no direction. A lot of people were were turning east. I had many friends who went to India, China, Japan, looking for roots, looking for look looking for purpose, looking for for meaning. Having grown up with a strong Jewish heritage, I felt my people before I start looking in foreign fields, my people I owe it to my people to look there first. >> So, that that was your own like your own decision before I hear from others that the first they went to other places and then they went to look in their back pockets, so to speak. He's saying, "You on your own >> Let's put it this way. I did a little bit of of of looking in the other pockets, but I really felt that Look, I went to Colgate University. Colgate University is a very special place. One of the teachers that there in Colgate was He was a guy who he studied Hinduism by spending 2 years in India. He studied in Zen by spending 2 years in a Zen monastery. He told me and he told and he taught me, "Don't just get caught up in a fad, you know, swayed by a current. You want to do something, do it right. Study it from the inside. Let it take time." And hey, if I'm going to spend serious amount of time looking somewhere, you start You don't go somewhere else first. You go home first. That was a very clear realization. Why go somewhere >> he told you? You never heard of this professor? >> No. Actually, he Actually, he told Actually, he told me that. You know, he he he Again, this is very curious that people didn't ex- People said hints, didn't explain it. This is, you know, "You're Jewish. You're looking for spirituality. Why don't you look into Chassidism? This Lubavitch." And he didn't tell me what Lubavitch was. It didn't really excite me very much this idea of Chassidism cuz I know everybody who who's grown up in a secular America thinks that Chassidism some something very back- you know, all 18th century, 19th century, definitely not 20th century. So, we didn't really When he said Chassidism, no, I wasn't very interested. So, but you know, he Yeah, he actually did say, "Look into Lubavitch." And um But it wasn't it wasn't him per se. I went to Israel just to look around and slowly but surely I met Chabad there. And invited me to Yeshiva to Yeshiva in Chabad for Shabbos. It was a little bit of an approach-avoidance conflict because on one hand I recognized that it was something real. On the other hand, it was very different. I mean, very, very different from the lifestyle that I was used to. And I had to think seriously whether I was going to actually make an experiment for this or not. I decided give it 2 weeks and then and then 2 months to see if it's going to sit sit comfortably, become real for me or not. >> So, what was happening in Chabad then? They had the Bal T'shuva Yeshiva there? Like what what was going on? >> They had regular Yeshiva the regular Yeshiva which is still there now. And then Rabbi Gavriel uh had a Bal T'shuva program. I was lucky cuz I knew Hebrew. Both I again, I went to a very good conservative Hebrew school so I learned Hebrew as a kid. I've been in Israel 6 you know, close to 6 months. So, my Hebrew got better. So, I was able to semi-integrate into the regular Yeshiva pattern. Like uh my A lot of the classes I went to most I I I looked up to to Rabbi Gavriel and the Bal T'shuva the as somewhat of you know guidance in the place I felt most comfortable with because the Israelis were definitely a different breed. That said, you know, I could I could study with them. You know, I knew the language. The Gemara was something new, but not something impossible to study. I mean, that's really like a very fundamental point. Gemara is actually very easy and people can pick it up if they get out of the illusion that this is difficult and realize that this is easy. They can pick it up. >> One second. You you realize that coming in fresh because I think I think some people in Yeshiva their whole lives are not convinced that Gemara is easy. >> Yeah, cuz they cuz they look at it that way. It becomes self and that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. >> [snorts] >> When you look at Torah study as easy, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. And when you look at it as difficult, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In other words, hey, I I raised my kids in Israel. That's a whole second story, but but I raised my kids in Israel. They were learning Gemara at age 10. Now again, my kids are are somewhat gifted, but they had classmates and they so weren't so gifted and they were also learning Gemara at age 10. It's not so It's not something out of the question. The ordinary in Israel, quite the contrary, it's common. So, if a 10-year-old can can study this page and understand it, a 20-year-old who's been through acade- some academic background and training can definitely understand it. And on the contrary, those people who don't don't really want to. And I did. And my attitude was if I'm going to do this, I'm not going to do this as a second class citizen. This is studyable. I can study it. And I did. >> Mhm. So, let me ask you um So, when you're coming from to Chabad and you're seeing the the bachurim, you're seeing the Lubavitchers, you're seeing frumme Yidden, what is it that I mean this is there was a search here, right? So, what is it that you're searching for and what is it that you're finding there? >> Look, first of all what we're sear- what I was searching for what not an I but I say just what every baal teshuvah teshuvah is searching for is a way to integrate your own spiritual desires, your own spiritual feeling, your own desire to come close to Hashem with your actual everyday life. How you live in this world. Now, I won't say that every person in Chabad was an exemplar of that. I wish I could. But, you know, but everyone was semi trying in that in that goal in that direction. I got to to see Chaim Kesselman. He was an exemplar in a in a very real way. I don't I mean I You know, there are different approaches among mashpi'im. Not everybody venerated Chaim in the same way that the people in Chabad did at that time. But, hey, this was a person who davened hours. He had real feeling in his davening. I didn't but many did watch him from his He would He would go to the issue He would go to the Yeshiva attend davening in the Yeshiva then go home and daven. I didn't go I wasn't among those who went went went and watched him him through a window at his house and where he davened. Uh many others did did. He would daven for hours. He would sing and dance in his davening. It was In other words, here you had a person who for him Judaism was was not just a religion, quote unquote. It was a fire. It was real. And he was there. There were others not quite on that level, but exemplars, people you could learn from. And I was willing to learn. And that that's one of the the first things a bochur has to when it comes to the Yeshiva you have to say, "Oh, this is something that I want. I want to see the see this, see if it's real for me, see how I can make it real. So, I look for at people who it's real for them. So, there there were many people in Brooklyn about who had that. >> So, at a certain point in Crown Heights >> [clears throat] >> you kind of migrated into the regular Yeshiva? Is that what that what I'm hearing? >> Well, more or less from the beginning. >> So, you had a relationship with the Rebbe Simcha Elchanan? >> Somewhat, but not really. I He was much A He was He wasn't so well. He was sick most of the time. This he he passed away 6 months after I entered Yeshiva. He was and he was he was back and forth from the hospital, so I didn't really get a chance to get a personal relationship ship with him. Well, my personal relationship was a lot with Reb Yankel Katz. Yankel was very He was the Mashgiach in of Seder Nigleh. I very special Yid, Mamish. You know, like I can tell you that like a guy who knew how to learn, loved learning. But I'll tell you a story that I had My I sent my son also to Farbrengen. He learned under Reb Yankel as well. He was close to Reb Yankel. He was cute. Reb Yankel never told him about the My son He never told my son about the close relationship that he and I shared. But you know, he obviously gave my son certain special attention. So My son wasn't wasn't great at keeping Seder. But he loved learning. So he come to Reb Yankel with questions in learning. So Reb Yankel says, "Oh, this is a deep point. That's something I got to take time to think about it. Now it's Seder. I don't have quite time much time to to learn it over. When I go home at night, I'll look into it. You'll probably look into it at night also. If you call me before before 11:00, I'll be happy to discuss it with you. After After 12:00, 12:00 is difficult. I used to be able to take course and I I used to study to one. But now I'm 80 years old. Can't I can't do that I can't do that anymore. Think about how old >> [laughter] >> how old he is that how small he feels. That was the time that was the year Reb Yankel was. I mean this is like I get I got learned and he loved learning. And he spread that and anybody who took him seriously picked that up. Now that's something unique. And then of course there was I studied personally under Reb Mordechai Ashkenazi. Reb Mordechai Ashkenazi the the Rabbi of Chabad. This was a a genius of a guy. Used to come to shear and like roll off acronym. I don't think he prepared. This is stuff that he was saying from memory. And he just had one after the other. Learning condition this is this is a magnet here here. It was just you know the guy guy was brilliant encyclopedic but also a very effective teacher. Like he's he was it was a block shear. Kishka Gemara Rashi Tosfos carefully each Gemara each each line of Rashi each line of Tosfos explained. And then peppered with acronym we show them an acronym. He taught you the basics and then how to explain the basics into deeper thought. Well this was you know Shmak. Mhm. See this you know, again see this I want to say it openly that this in fact about wasn't it didn't have the flavor, the intellectual flavor that Chabad really is known for. To put it bluntly they were interested in teaching you, inspiring you how to daven. I mean I didn't hear Yisrael Machain teach Samach Vav. But I was told that even that he would study the the school of pieces of Samach Vav best and then take out a small devoted to Kvod and practice the Avodah. In fact about they were very emphasis they were give they were putting a high emphasis on davening. Which is I can very important and the Chassidisha Yid has to know how to daven. But he also has to learn with what to daven and just you know, being inspired oh There's a classic story. One of the Alter Rebbe's Chassidim daven 4 hours every Shabbos. And the and it was a simple person. His fellow Chassidim asked him what are you doing what what what you do doing daven 4 hours? And he told them the Alter Rebbe taught Zocher v'Shomer b'dibur echad ne'emar. The dibur echad the one the one board of Anochi Hashem Elokecha has got to be the zachor v'shamor in your inner being. And that's why that was the four hours. Now, one of that's very inspiring. On the other hand, as Kabbalat Oht, it's a methodical process where you review ideas. The emotions springs from the intellect. It's not just a emotional charge, I want to come close to Hashem. So, that was a little bit lacking in like as about shuva, I was in every about shuva is into that emotional charge. But, having been be being fed that on a constant basis, I felt a little bit um hey, there must be more the the chassidus in this. So, I wasn't I was pleased cuz again, this is it was chassidus, it was rich, it was ruchnius, which is American again, you you know, we never I was never exposed to this. You know, you know, nobody taught this the this on on the other hand, the intellectual development of it was kind of lacking and I felt that missing. And also like the next the next point is was they keep they kept telling us rebbe, rebbe, rebbe. And like I see, you know, it's cute. The rebbe is in New York. I'm an American. So, what am I doing in Israel? You know, like it came very clear to me that if if this is what we're based on, go to the source. And so, after a year and a half in Park Abrahams, you know, I wanted to stay there long enough that I felt I could walk into 770 as one of the guys. Not just the guy learning in >> So basically So and they say a guy stuff of I was at the fire. So you come in and you see everyone's talking about the Rebbe. So So what So what are you guys doing here? The Rebbe's in New York. The Rebbe's in New York. So that's that's what propelled you to actually go. There's one personality in Chabad that you didn't mention yet is the Mendel Futerfas. Did you have a connection with him? >> Mendel didn't get to Chabad until I left. Mendel got to Chabad after 1973. I spent a lot of time I have a very personal relationship with Mendel from 1972 when I was in in 1977 when I was in Cleveland. But I'll get to that I'll get to that later perhaps. But uh And then in in that he he he got to Chabad in Shalom Chai passed away in in in 1970. He just gotten to England at that time. Mendel. And he came to Chabad and in uh when he when he finished in the Rebbe the Rebbe told the Rebbe told him to sign up as a Mashpia in Chabad. The He looked at the Rebbe and said, "Rebbe, I've never been a Mashpia for Bachurim. You know, I was always dealing with Balbatim." Never Kish Mashgichim as Kish Mashgichim. Kish Mashgichim Kish Mashgichim. Those are the Rebbe's words to him. He told me those that personally. In other words, he felt that he was really that was you know, this wasn't his job. The Rebbe wasn't saying that really, you really plastic for driving so much beer, but there's a lot of kids that blow up. Be an example for them, you know, an example for the bathroom to look at that you'll at least see a serious yet. So, yeah. But he came to Harvard after he got married. I already I left Harvard base, so I'm so I I'm missing Harvard. >> Yeah, I got it. So, you decide that you need to go to the source, you need to go to 770, but you first you want to be prepared and be able to jump right in. So, that's kind of what you were doing at Harvard, I guess. So, you then So, then you arrive in 770. You said I'm at base already? >> Harvard base. Right after Harvard base. >> And you came to learn You came to learn in the Shiva in 770. >> Come come in. See the rabbit walk walk into my room. Make a broccoli and onion. That's And start from there. >> Okay, so go. Start. I'm ready. So, what happened when you came top top of the moment base day after putting what tell me about that experience? >> Look. So, being accepted in 770 was like I had a path to the Shiva. But after they never had about Shiva is coming into 770 straight. And they had people who were raised in the above the ship. Yeah, they had a couple from way before who got into who who went to the above the high schools as kids and so they grew up in the they grew up in the system. But a guy who you know, 20 years old, I learned Harvard and um I'm now here. I can learn. Take me to Shiva. It was the David never asking was like um I can see you you look at my mental settle and say see that they want they want me to take you in but I don't know. Why don't you try how do you do it all right? And I said no I'm not I'm not interested in how do you do it all right. I'm able to learn just with to learn with the best of the book of what you have. You know. It was back it was a little bit back and forth luckily that year that was actually base at that point was that was in now there have been other people since then but that was you know what I mean. So a lot of people talk about came in what you mean to say to me then. So you know what the people who knew me from were able to convince to to accept me and uh especially at that time directly after after Pesach that year they opened the Torah. And they needed you know instead of having to sell down as it is now now down 770 they opened the Torah. So nobody wanted to go there. I mean nobody wanted to go there. Right? They didn't have a spoken about it then. But yeah. So my mind was on going but and I had I wasn't so sensitive to learning 770 at that point. So I was you know okay this is where you're supposed to she wants you to go you go. And so because because of that you know I got close to Mendel. Who I that was part of his project to certain center of the Torah. So like and No. Brochure Also, the Remnick was was a very interesting person because he can He was with David David's prize Talmud. >> David >> Yeah. This was like You know, what do you You know, the whole method of of learning a Rishon, seeing what she taught so which David David taught. If you look at the shot in the Shas you heard of which is which is left from him, Remnick picked that up. He took it also to Achronim. And he was like very interested in conveying this to somebody. You wouldn't believe people were interested in learning from him. What can I tell you? [laughter] This is like, you know, There's There were There were people who learned in France. You know, the Fezners, the Volshanskys, the s- the s- Yidden who common sense people who would would learn the Goldbergs, people who learned in France when the Shas was there. They had a Shnitten Nigleh which which was there so they were the Bal Nigleh 770. A couple of Israelis who because of the familiarity in in of Israel, you know, they they also were Bal Nigleh. But, there were no Americans who were Bal Nigleh. They They didn't They didn't like it. >> Mhm. >> And Remnick was very happy to find somebody who who who was interested in in listening to him. And he was in a very solid way of teaching you how to learn. You know, you know, you you want to learn to learn how to learn an acronym. He was amazing. Methodical, slow. Where he you know, to see to show you how it so works. To show, you know, it was just very beautiful to watch and learn from. How do I other people didn't get excited by it? I did. >> going to say I heard a lot of people talk about the Mementic. I don't know I I haven't heard such a analysis of his children like I'm hearing from you. >> Look, Mementic was a father to Bakrim. Used to care for didn't have any children of his own. Used to care for for Bakrim as his own kids, really. You know, if you felt you know, if you didn't have a coat with Mementic notice that. You know, things like that he he was very careful about and every and every knew him for that. Every knew him for you know, his Kabul so for the Rebbe. I mean, beautiful story out. I I was once giving a a a sheer or whatever in a conservative shul in New Jersey. The rabbi of the of the shul was in New York. He picked me up. We we drove to New we drove to New Jersey for an hour together. So, talking to him he says, you know, why do you invite me? What kind of interest in Hasidic? What what sparks your interest? Well, I went to for bringing once. He says, oh, really? If you you know, what what sparked your interest? After all, you don't understand Yiddish. Yeah, I'll tell you what really what really sparked my interest. There was one man, tall, slight little bit heavy set, standing by the Rebbe. And he stood there with absolute intention. And >> [laughter] >> like a soldier focused totally on When I said if somebody if I saw a person who could have such concentration by watching the Rebbe, how that happens interested me. And that's why I was interested in That's what interested me in Chassidus. >> Right. >> In other words, when the the cover the end >> Mhm. >> just by being who he was. But yeah, you know, it's really unfortunate people didn't understand him as a teacher. Again, that's in general what the Americans never never picked up on learning Nigleh. >> The American bochurim, you're saying? >> The list. Yeah. >> So, um Okay, so you were you were cover from the mental again in Nigleh. You mentioned earlier that when you were in Crown Heights, that there was a lack that there was a lack of I don't know what the word is, but the Chassidus was more in the avodah aspect of it, and there's more to it. So, I imagine you met the Rebbe Yael in in in in 770. >> No, no. I I I had friends really at that time. He didn't give shiurim in 770. Private people used to Private bochurim used to come to him in in in in at home and elsewhere. He didn't He didn't teach in 770 at that point. But he taught in in Ocean Parkway. There was a group of bochurim 770 who went to were were sent to Ocean Parkway each year to be kind of semi There wasn't There wasn't a sent term shluchim then, but that's Today, that's the idea of sending bochurim as shluchim. That's the That's the same concept. So, there's a There's a group of bochurim who were sent there and you're you're would come to Ocean Parkway to to teach. So, I realized that I want I wanted to hear Yoll and I wanted to and I therefore wanted to get to go to Ocean Parkway. Luckily, I had a very you know, because of my relationship with Reb Mendel lick I was able to sort that out. You know. He was he did that for me and Baruch Hashem. And then I remember the the first class that Reb Yoll gave was nothing special. I mean, you know, tight said a mind tight did said it tight did you know, tight smack. But nothing special. Second class we learned about united at that time. And the point that he was he was teaching was the city the kaylim are malbus pnimius and malbus tzionis. That the or which is which encloses itself in the in the kaylim the inner dimension of the or of the or is hid and that could only the outer dimension is revealed. And he he started to explain that that. He asked the question. We get exactly the the the question but it was and he asked the question and wanted bachurim to answer it. Now, most of the guys were like they knew Reb Yoll was playing with them. They didn't want to answer cuz he's just playing with them. But I wanted the class to move. So, he's waiting for an answer for somebody to answer. So, now I'm I'm not I'm personally embarrassed. You know, he'll probably shoot me down but who cares? Let's get this Let's get the show on the road. So it's and I had actually learned the Maimer which was focusing on that same subject that morning. So I repeated exactly what it said in that Maimer. So Rebbe says, "Yes, that's you know, there's nothing wrong with what you're saying, but there's a logical development that's lacking from that. That you take you got to go this point and that point and then you know, so how do you deal with that?" I didn't have any answers to his question. He says, "Every Yes, have you have any answers?" Nobody else had any answers. And you know, then he went out so it gets back to my original question. And so so so people were playing with him again. Again, there was still a degree of you know, like he's pushing you. Okay, somebody's got to say something so somebody goes further. Anyway, ultimately he he start he start he starts, you know, pushing this guy down, pushing that guy down. I get very upset. He says, "So this is taking half an hour already. He hasn't said anything yet. He's just So I go I go out, get the Maimer I was learning this that I had learned that morning. I read the Maimer and this is what it says here in the Maimer. This is the chat." He says, "Yes." "Yes, the Maimer knows chat. But tell me, can you answer the questions I asked you in the first place?" No. "So if you can't answer them, then you haven't understood. Yes, you repeated the Maimer, but you didn't understand what it said." I come to Maimer I read as I am on the file. As they say in Hebrew, the coin fell. You you knew exactly Oh, that Chassidus isn't just saying those words over again, repeating the and the the truth which the which the Rebbe says, it's assimilating them to your own understanding, putting them in your own words, able to to explain it to another person who doesn't necessarily know what it is. And have you all thought that? And you know how should put it? That's what I try to do. I personally and I thank God because you always a gift. >> So for you that was like a new experience that you haven't that you haven't you hadn't yet experienced earlier in about or whatever that that was a new experience for >> Everyone you all was a new experience for every person who who ever took him seriously. There's a very big difference between the Rebbe and the Rebbe and the Rebbe time. When the Rebbe speaks what he says it's it's a little What can I tell you? No matter how much the Rebbe speaks about taking the or of the Rebbe to and putting it into conceptual into a conceptual framework that everyone can understand. But the Rebbe it's Rebbe time. Or what he did them to make it real for them it has to be taken a little bit further, taken from It's a beautiful um article written by Rabbi Began. Rabbi Began was among among the other things he was also the editor to Rebbe time. Now Rabbi Berel Lazar wrote a translation of Pokeach Ivrim. Pokeach Ivrim is written in Yiddish, a very Yiddish, a very street street Yiddish, the kind of two Yiddish which many people who know Yiddish don't understand because it's too street Yiddish for them to understand. So, Yitzchaki translated it into Lashon Hakodesh. When Khatskele wanted to publish Yitzchaki's Sicha, he had a big problem. Because was a Rebbe's Sicha, it's not a Chossid. Sicha is is a Rebbe's domain to say, not a Chossid's. And he bring he writes a very clear clear exposition. He says, when the Rebbe says Sicha, this this is Elokus in Seichel, the Seichel of of Elokus. When when a when the Rebbe says he says Sicha, it's not human intellect looking at an infinite God, it's an infinite God coming into human intellect. So, the problem is though, when you have human God coming into into infinite into mortal intellect, it's not it's not quite mortal intellect yet. A human being has to break that down into his own words, into his own Musagim, his own conceptual framework, so that he can understand. Yoel did that. I mean, obviously, [clears throat] the Rebbe gave him the tools. But that's you know, like people people don't realize how much of quote Yoll's explanations are found in a sicha there and a ma'amar there, etc. That said, the way he formulated it was something very unique. There aren't Again, he had a tradition. He He had heard from his teachers, from Moshe Gurary, from many people who had studied masculine from from the previous generations. But, he was unique. And so, people who Not many people really I A lot of people He He didn't speak It wasn't easy to to listen to him. Not every Not everybody could grasp him. For pushing intellectually, he was he was a little bit abstract. And speaking And speaking to him was not the easiest to grasp. So, they didn't always have what what he was say saying and you you know, I mean, I was amazed. In the In the last 20 years of years of his life, he would say a shiur in Shabbos morning 770 in in upstairs in 770 The last uh place was upstairs in in in in 788. Maybe 25 people came to it. Think about that for a second. Yoll was saying chassidus. He's explaining it beautifully as only he can. And 25 people were able to get out of the bed Shabbos morning to wanted to come and only and only 25. I I was just amazed. I mean, I used to come in often specially just to hear him, you know, just hear that shiur. I I living in Crown Heights at that at time. But but >> The Friday night his Friday night sheer had a bigger attendance though. >> Yeah. But it was First of all, the Friday night sheer cuz it was semi it had to be attended. You know, it was like but but it was saying to you what what else what else we could do? >> Right. >> But also it wasn't it was packed, but it wasn't super packed. Come on, let's be honest. And and and probably maybe 60 70 Bochurim of the 200 Bochurim in in 100 plus Bochurim in in Yeshiva. And couldn't hear all the well easily also, but you know it it had a better attendance than the Shabbos morning. That's one was basically for Baal Habatim. But and the kids are not everybody tuned into it all. But if you did, you got something from it. You learned to think through Chassidus. And and that made a very difference. >> Um >> difference between I It's cute because there was nobody who who spoke Kabbalas Olam more than Yoll. Nobody spoke of Rebbi more than Yoll. But he did it in a way where this wasn't just rallying around the flag. Oh, we've got to do it. No, it wasn't just it was a message that came from the inside to the outside. Not oh, we've got to do this. We've got to do this. >> Right. Okay, it's very fascinating. Um so I want to hear also a little bit you talk about Divrei Hadavah Divrei Hatamud. Let's talk a little bit about the Divrei Hadav. So you arrive Purim or after Purim Lamed Beis. what was that experience seeing the Rebbe for the first time and subsequent farbrengens, what what what was what was that like for you? >> Look, I had to learn this. Nobody going to tell you that. No, wasn't brought up in a Lubavitch home. I've heard a lot about the Rebbe. Had to learn what what it means to be what it means. First of all, here the idea to to listen to a farbrengen for two, three, four hours. Americans don't do that. I mean, you know, if an American hears a speech that's an hour long, he's tired. He wants He doesn't want to listen anymore. That's just, you know, the best speak, you know, no speaker is supposed to speak for more than 45 minutes. So, the Rebbe the Rebbe was punctuated by nigunim, etc., but the ability to halt cough for a through a whole farbrengen, that required training. And you know, that that took that took time. And you wanted to do it because I mean, oh, if this is this is where you are, you want to you want to be able to you have that. But, it was it was very it was very hard it was a hard skill to pick up. >> What was the still like it was it still like a language barrier for you at that point or it wasn't the language, it was the it was the typing? >> There was a little bit of a language a little bit of a language barrier, but I but not so much language barrier I picked up more or less um early. But, just Hey, how many people can How many people can sit and sit you know, watching is definitely different from from being there. But show me people who sit through a through through a video of a brengin today. I mean, without fidgeting, wrapped attention, focused, you know. So, uh It's not It is not an easy skill. And you wanted to know what the Rebbe said. And the of course, you know, chazara was a very big thing. You wanted to be like if this is >> [laughter] >> you know, like I should put I always had a an achievement-oriented so you know, if chazara if it's you know, so if the chazara is is important, so I want to be able to do that also. And it was very very cute, like I was never very good at at following momish word for word. But I was but I was very good at ideas. I could I could get a bit the binyan of a sicha. So, quite often with the chazara, it was a you know, like other guys, you know, my job my job in chazara was often what's the flow? What was the next stage in in the in the farbrengen? >> And you think it's not so much the memory of the wording that the Rebbe used, but like what's the hemshech basically? The hemshech inyanim. >> Yeah. The hemshech ideas cuz you >> I've actually heard your name when people describe chazara those years. I've heard your name mentioned as a contributor. >> Yeah, I could say that I was not a I was not like there were people who were very good at following the words. My my emphasis in in chazara was the hemshech inyanim. And you know, the found the the flow of the farbrengen, the and the way the ideas led one led to the other. >> So, you were able to do that within a short time of you coming to 770? >> Yeah. Once Once I picked up the Rebbe's Yiddish, I mean, you got to understand, the Rebbe's Yiddish. I still can't speak a good very a good bal batish Yiddish. Like the >> So, how did you communicate with the Yale and all these people that we meant like >> First of all, Rebbe Yoel, I used to communicate a lot with him in Hebrew. He Yoel loves speaking Hebrew. Cuz that's his natural That was his natural language. He He was born in Russia. In Russia, his his parents probably spoke Russian at home for a while. For a while, he he also spoke Russian, but you know Um He He He He likes speaking Hebrew. He's He's cute. So, I I would speak I would speak to him in Hebrew. But I You know, I also learned I learned Yiddish. But the Yiddish of Hasidism and the Yiddish of I'm saying a bal batish Yiddish >> Yiddish, like >> How do you get Yeah, you know to serve supper in Yiddish is very hard for me. I mean, to um When When my When I was teaching When When I had raising my kids We taught We We spoke to them in Yiddish till they were age six. At that point, I said, "Wait a second. I want to be able to communicate with my kids." >> It's important. >> So, when when they got to When they got to Hasidism, but you know, but with with just everyday stuff, we switched from Yiddish to English. >> So, back to the Rebbe's So, you're saying the Rebbe's Yiddish is what? >> Oh, it's It's half Gemara, half half Kabbalah, half Kabbalah. It's It's It's not It's not a bal batish Yiddish. >> I mean, I as a kid, I would listen to I knew Yiddish as a kid. And then listening I would listen to the sicha, I didn't understand three three quarters of >> Exactly. >> [laughter] >> So, I was doing the opposite. Because I I was able to understand the Aramaic, the the Aramaic Gemara, the the Kabbalah. I was therefore able able to get get the idea of this. >> Right. So So, it's very fascinating. I mean, it's it's very fascinating that you were able to to pick that up within within a short time. By the way, I mean the Rebbe's Yiddish I was listening recently to a few Yechidusen. There's a few that have that are recorded. And the Yechidus that Rebbe does speak a little more of that uh you know, the conversational Yiddish. It's like it's a It's much harder. It's much It's a lot more you know, the vocabulary. I don't know the vocabulary, but the the expressions that Rebbe uses is very different than the Sichos. So you were So you were So you come to 770 and you're you're totally in. You're you're listening to the Yael. You're you're you're about you're about to have blingen. So what was the When you heard the Rebbe speak, what was the the the new I mean you said that when you were in Crown Heights, everything was the Rebbe Rebbe Rebbe, but you know, they don't know what what what what it's all what it's all about. You come to 770 and you're hearing from the Rebbe directly. So what is it? >> It's real. One of the classic things in is that and a main this is what he means what he says. You can hear a person speaking honestly. He's not just talking about a dream, a goal, what I you know, the Rebbe speaks Whatever he said was very real for him and therefore it was very real for you. And it's like that was what as Bochurim Mivtzaim meant something to us. Why? Cuz when the Rebbe said Yidden Yidden to lay on Tefillin that every Jew should put on Tefillin. Oh, yeah. So that's part of our job to go out and go on the street and make sure that every Jew puts on Tefillin. When the Rebbe said every Jewish and Jewish child should go to a camp, a Jewish camp and that's actually like like the first thing I did I did in in um in Sakh. This was Shmuel Zalman Dovid Okunov that I ever spoke spoke about Mivtza Ois U'Mitzvah started to always It's right before the the half year before the Yom Kippur War. He started speaking for Mivtza Ois U'Mitzvah started to always It's a classic You know, it's it's now in the annals of Lubavitch history, quote unquote. that I was knew quote knew this knew the Yom Kippur War before half a year before it happened and gave the and gave the inner message message to defeat the enemy beforehand. We didn't quite understand what was happening in the ruchnius and what was happening in the future developments. We just know that I ever said something. We took it seriously. And I remember going up to Dovid Raskin afterwards. And Dovid and I had become friends over over the over the Cuz again, Dovid took the Dovid There was no They when they they titled the book of by Rabbi Dovid Abdi Dovid. And that's really what it was. Okay. There was no person who wasn't that I ever avid like Dovid Raskin. And like this, you know, when when the Rebbe said something, it was real. And Dovid took that, you know, poof. So So he said So I remember going going to Dovid Raskin. So you have to get every every kid in We have to go out and try to get to do something. He says, "What do we do?" I says, "Look, let's develop a program that every where where we can get kids into camp. We'll go around to every Jewish school. He was you know educational day school school school put up flyers in the streets. And every every Jewish kid in New York forgot the Rebbe's message. Come that was a little bit of an overstatement. We didn't actually do that. But we hit every official place in every official school that with that the Rebbe's message. We rented seven state seven cars going all over all over New York City to this. I remember David being excited. Seven cars doing the doing the Rebbe's seven chariots for the Rebbe's word. It was a spiral at that time cuz nobody ever done that before. But yeah. These were what made it happen. Bochurim who took the Rebbe seriously. The same thing that that year the Rebbe spoke about Chanukah that every Jew should have have a menorah. Oh, every Jew should have a menorah. So we we went out. We bought up we went through through every Jewish Judaica store so I bought up all the menorahs gave out menorahs in the street. Then we we ran out after a couple of days. There was no more menorahs to buy. And David knew somebody who had a metal factory. We made our own made special menorahs for menorahs for us. >> Those are the famous Simcha Simonites. That's when they were created. >> Thousands of you Yeah. Where did this come from? Cuz Bochurim heard the Rebbe and they said, "Oh, he means what he says. Let's make it happen." That was that was what That was the spirit of the Bochurim that that started that at that time. In other words, it was unique energy which, you know, beforehand there wasn't that same degree of manpower. And I would say I don't Whatever the flexibility wasn't there. We We got it done. And that's what's, you know, I have to start it. Thanks for It's not the Rebbe's initiative. Thanks for the Bochurim's initiative. Everything all the the this is, yeah, that Rebbe pushed it. But the Rebbe said something, Bochurim thought how to apply it, and we got it done. And that changed Lubavitch into like, "Oh, when the Rebbe says something, he means it, and we mean it. We're going to try to get try to make it happen." That was the spirit of go you you know, like it It and it was It was semi-new at that time. I mean, like no People had been talking like this, but they never did it. And now we did it. >> Right. >> I mean, the Mitzvah Tanks had been there before, but it wasn't quite with the same energy as as this as this, you know, we I mean, you went out to Friday Friday morning, you Friday afternoon, you you went out to the school, and you you went out, but there wasn't It didn't It was a personal thing. It wasn't It wasn't have the the the new fire, the the energy that that this Rebbe did. >> Right. And that was what was happening all your years. Let me ask you another question about the Sichos. The Besides those Sichos when the Rebbe speaks about Mitzvahs and all those things, but my my other question is about what about the Rebbe's sichos in Torah, like the Rashi sichos, the Ma'amorim, the Siyumim that the Rebbe makes? What was that to you that was different from what you heard from a Rosh Yeshiva or from other people? >> Look, you look at the Yalkut Shimoni on Seder Olam. What the Rebbe explains there with Modeh Ani, that like that's a classic, he does it in in all four in the four parties of Torah. But really, every Rashi and every Rambam, when it's magnified by by Pnimiyus HaTorah, it's a different Rashi and a different Rambam. And so, that's that's why so many people have have trouble, you know, great Torah scholars will look at the look at the Rebbe's Rambams and they're oh, some of them pick it up and say, "Wow." And some of them pick it up and they put it down. Cuz they this is a whole new way of of thinking a Rambam. Same with the Rebbe's Rashi. When the Rebbe's you know, when our article go go go put out put out translations of Rashi, and they didn't put it in anything from the Rebbe, part of that was political, but part of it was quite honestly, it just the Rebbe's way of thinking, the Rebbe's way of reading a Rashi is so radically different from the way they do, it was hard for them to understand. And therefore it didn't go in. In other words, it was a whole new approach. That's one of the things, you know, actually want to go into what we we've done in translating in translating the sichos is that we've shaped it. On one hand, we're very true to the original. We keep and we have a very clear, you know, it's face-to-face translations. There's no deviation from the source. On the other hand, there's plenty of explanation so that a person who's not familiar with that style could understand what the Rebbe is doing. And that's very important because as I said before, the even a the the transition from Elokus the Elokus cooked of seichel to how a normal person understands it's a transition. And what's taking the way the Rebbe understands something and putting into an American conceptual framework requires a certain shaping. And uh yeah. You learn, you know, you learn to do it yourself, but um if the text could be if that can be made available, that's what we try to do in our in our translations, it's very valuable. >> Okay, so maybe this is a springboard that you can talk to me a little bit about sichos in English. A little bit like a little bit of how you got involved in it and what was the seder of doing it and and what it's all about, what it takes, etc. >> Okay. Since it was started I actually wasn't in New York at that time. I was in Cleveland in Cleveland. Um I was in 1977. And actually At that point was the first time do it time there was a real large amount of chuva throughout throughout the America and throughout the world for that matter. People didn't understand the edition wanted to hear it in English. That was the first time it was simultaneous for bringings in sign translations at the bringings. And people wanted Oh, can we get copies of what the Rebbe said? And a couple of that time came of the Rebbe Weinberg Okay. I'm going to call this. It was a bunch of people who they could do this. They wanted to do it. And they started. Quite honestly, it was a little bit erratic. And this was So I came back from from Cleveland. I was in Cleveland as a Rebbe and just got engaged. Shortly shortly after Purim is interesting. I have a Purim kind of figures as figures as as a transition point. But shortly after Purim Purim I came I came back to the Crown Heights right before before my wedding. And they said, "Oh well, you're here, great. Take it over. We need somebody who's who can do this on a regular basis. Do it." So, we started and I started shortly afterwards. You You and Yona Epstein came in. You Yona did you know for the the organizational work. I did the translation. Yona did the organizational work. I have to you know like Yona know how to Yona gave himself over 24/7. 365 days a year to making this the project happen. I mean like you know, guy didn't sleep or you know, he literally had had a had his bed in the office for many years. Really, he put you know, his bed was in the sichos in English office. That's That's where he was 24/7. >> When he was a bochur. >> Making sure the most Yeah. Making sure the most of it happened. It was This was just like uh so, it happened. So, um you know, I I I I wouldn't say say that I had that My My bed was in the office because I was just getting married that time. But, uh you know, no you We We started putting out the sichos. We still the first thing Lamed Tes from the second half of Lamed Tes, we got most of the sichos. And um from Lamed Tes on, it came on a on a regular basis. >> a question. How What's the process of translating the sichos in English? You're doing it from your own hazara or you're copying the hanachos that are coming out and translating in hanachos? How does work? >> We definitely definitely definitely copy the but we were doing something like what does it does I mean actually David Feldman >> [laughter] >> used to used to say I wish I could do what you did. Because we would summarize the because >> Now it's like on hand it wasn't a full translation cuz >> Hey the the English was 40-50 pages the Hebrew was it was it was already cut down to 20-30 pages. We wanted to get 10 pages 15 pages in English that's you know most people can can read 10-15 pages in about half you know seriously studying about 20 minutes. That's about that's what we wanted to get to. We didn't you know like when you produce a 60 page document it's self-defeating nobody's going to read it. >> Right. It's actually very um I mean I I I use them myself if I if I'm watching if I'm bringing and I want basically a good synopsis of the because basically you have the whole because without every detail just to get understand the the the because in English is great for that. >> Yeah again again I guess what I didn't what I didn't write I did the same thing. Get a flow chart of the ideas and give it give it over. You know later we we changed a little bit cuz the was but even even in the even in the later years is from you know from when on when you when I started I took a I did the sichos from Leman from Leman Kest in to Mem and started getting them in Mem in Mem Kest. But from you know even later sichos when we're more attentive to people who at that point really want we want to hear exactly what the Rebbe said. So we're more thorough in in getting word for in getting you know like I said not word for word but uh more more truthful loyal to the to the text. But uh yeah. You can't be totally you can't be totally stuck on the text on the on the text you have to in English wording you have to you have to craft it and synopsize it to a certain extent. Now Likkutei Sichos we don't do that. Likkutei Sichos we give I'm going to we explain what the Rebbe what the Rebbe what the Rebbe writes not not synopsize because it's a different process. Likkutei Sichos is a direct translation of what the Rebbe said expanded. In other words when we do when we do a sicha we want to we want want to frame it in a manner which any person can more or less understand what the Rebbe says. And that anybody who opens Likkutei Sichos will take a look and hey I can read it what it says it makes a logic it's a logical sense to me. You the terminology it's a little bit foreign but it's explained there and I can follow it and go go through it step by step. >> Are you aware of what the Rebbe's reaction or to to this whole idea of having the sichos in English was? >> Look the clearest reaction this was Taf Shin Lamed this is and Taf Shin Lamed Lamed Tes we were in diapers we were mostly in diapers. And at that point with Rabbi Mordechai Mentlik and director of Vaad L'Hafotzas Sichos had Emmanuel Schochet produce a translation of of Likutei Sichos 1 to 5. Which is In English it's 1 to 5, but in Hebrew it's in the original edition it's Aleph and Bet. Now, Emmanuel is Emmanuel. He's like, you know, there's very few people like him. But um so I don't know the full process of how and what, but before he published it, he he put it into the Rebbe and the and he asked the Rebbe's permission to publish. And the Rebbe said, "Shayach l'Vaad Sichos in English." We got nothing better than that. In other words, it's that that was our direct >> mandate. >> Stampa. Yeah. No, and later we put out a series, Timeless Patterns in Time. The Rebbe gave us his his shaar. The the first this was this was adapted sichos. You know, not at all a direct a direct translation. And the Rebbe he said we could we could use his shaar. Did that You know what that meant? In other words, the Rebbe saw I mean, this is >> [laughter] >> I wouldn't say we were perfect at that time. Far from it. We were very, you know, we needed a lot of improvement. But the Rebbe trusted us that we're going in the right direction. We wanted the community Sukkah and he felt that all these guys you know, Yona myself, other people working with us we're committed to the goal and as we get better at it as we we work at it we'll get better at it instead of you know, like one of the biggest problems you know, people say that the enemy of good is is not bad, it's excellence. >> Perfection, right? >> People Yeah, if you're not perfect we can't publish you. The Rebbe was very much get it out, get the message over, the message will be effective, it'll do something. And if not and we'll go from there. >> Right. Um I'm saying and the the the idea of making this the sichos accessible to the English speaking crowd. I mean, this is a major step in the Farsi some ironist. I mean, it it's uh >> Look, there are how many sichos did I ever speak about shivim lashon? And somebody finally did that. >> And uh and and and in recent years you've been the set of the sichos that you're working on now, which is a total new project, a new access that gives that it gives to people to to the Rebbe's data, right? That's that's the most current and recent endeavor that you've been uh relation with the Rebbe involved in. >> Baruch Hashem. Yeah, it's an am- it's an amazing thing and uh you know, we did six volumes where we showcase the Rebbe person on every parsha and then and every yuntif selections of Likkutei Sichos. Those are that's the blue set that people getting to know now. And last 2 years we've working on Aleph and Beis. Hopefully by this way we Aleph and Beis will come out. We're now on the final production. >> the plan to to go Al HaSeider to translate to Likkutei Sichos? >> Let's put this way. We did Aleph and Beis. Now we're on Gimmel and Daled. I've got questions afterwards what what's exactly what what we should continue we don't continue quite on just like Aleph and Beis and Gimmel and Daled. Uh there was a gap between before Chelek Hey came out. After we started editing those Sichos which became Hey Hey to Tes. And and those Sichos are totally different with a different goal than Aleph and Beis. So again I don't know if we're going to go What's the next stage after is there after Daled? That's already a inner um >> I mean eventually everything is going to be translated at some point. >> Well, yes yes, but because look This is one of my my points in translation. If you have a physics trans textbook in Yiddish, can you and I understand it? Mostly not. You You know what I'm saying? You have to know the jargon of the of the subject before you understand it. So when you're doing a Rambam or or even an intricate Rashi, is that shayach to everybody or is it shayach to somebody who is a student of that? Now on one hand obviously whoever said the sicha edited the sicha is shayach to everybody. On the other hand That's stuck on this attracted everybody. That's our our internal That's our internal debate debate. >> But but that And I but that you just touched on something. The Rambam you actually did translate in its entirety. What was that about? >> Yeah, look the Rambam translated in its entirety A because the Rebbe wanted people to learn it. And again, this is something where I took the Rebbe seriously. Nobody else did. Except Henoch Backshaw. >> He's >> Beautiful. >> He's the one who published it. >> Yeah. I remember his words, "Will this make the Rebbe happy?" I said the Rebbe will be overjoyed. He said, "If there's any way to get my get done then we're going to do this." You know. But the Rambam was a specific thing. You're learning Rambam. Now that Now Lubavitchers learn Rambam. Nobody else in the world learns Rambam. Rosh This is This is the unique thing of the Rebbe. I mean he's shifting subjects a little bit, but a Rosh Yeshiva learns a Rambam when he has a when he has a kasha. He wants to make a pilpul a cooked up Rambam. Either to make a Either because he wants to understand how how Rambam looks at the Gemara or mostly because he wants to make his pilpul and put the Rambam in in his pilpul. [clears throat] One or two of the other, but it's not learning Rambam as Rambam. Rambam he wrote his book to be learned al a seder to know 613 mitzvahs that you should go from Torah Shebichtav to Torah Shebe'al Peh. And this is shalem Torah Shebe'al Peh. So every kid from from 10 to 15 should 15 should learn my safer. That's what he writes in his hakdamah. Nobody ever did that that had that sense of learning Rambam. Well, they do actually do that in in Yemen in Teiman. They did in Teiman for many years. But, definitely outside of that of that small community in Teiman who really they actually followed the Rambam's halacha. But, everybody else in the Yeshiva community never learned Rambam. And that that that's a new revolutionary concept of Rambam. That oh, learn just learn it keseder. So, you want to understand the 613 mitzvahs. The Rebbe Mishneh Torah is that Rambam. This is This is Mikra Rashi is Pirush Mikra. Halacha is the board. This is The Rebbe had three teachers. Right? If you hear What are three people that Rebbe would always mention by the Rebbe? Rashi, Rambam, the Rebbe would mention them. How about this um I I did Torah and Halacha was divided to Mikra, Torah Shebeal Peh. Rashi, Pirush Mikra. Torah Shebeal Peh redacted Halacha Rambam. Gemara, not the book of Gemara, but the thought process of the Gemara. Who are the consistencies after the Rebbe? And these are And the Rebbe was That's the the Rebbe the the Rebbe in in all all those things. Yes, the Rebbe would have mentioned everybody. But, Rashi, Rambam, the Rebbe would mention them. Cuz in in these three disciplines, he was dedicated to the the teacher the king of each three. Yeah. And so, They go Go Second So, again, taking When the Rebbe was speaking to Rambam it's a totally different Rambam the actual that's what they say. It's and the other hand and it's taking the Rambam in a very in a much deeper way than you would get it just from the text. Rambam in the text is just to teach you how to mix it. The Rebbe is deeper than the most than Rav Chaim or anything else in the sense he's he's taking much deeper. But yeah. He's focused ultimately on what on what Rambam wants. But yes, so so going into when a sicha on a Rambam is really you have to get into the Rebbe's motives, you know, way of thought. So is that shiyach for everybody? I don't know. And on a constant basis we have you know, we do send samples of how the Rebbe did this. You can see how how the Rebbe attacks a Rambam. We just we have samples of Rashi. But most of our sichos are focused on the avodas Hashem cuz quite honestly that's what people are looking for. Want to see see how the Rebbe taught you how to face life's questions, answer your answer the personal issues which you come up up in relationship >> So you're you're you're assuming that someone that wants to learn a Rashi sicha or nigleh sicha probably is able to look at the original. Is that that assumption? >> To do it well, yeah, you have to. I mean just said like like I said to to learn a psychology text textbook or learn a textbook in physics. You've got to you got to be somewhat of of an expert in that. So yeah, if if we give you a if we'll spell out the specific sicha we we we do that we it, but to do every Rashi Sicha you really got to be be into Rashi to do that. So, that's this this my my own personal question whether we actually will do that or not. >> Right. So, my question is do you think it's beneficial for someone that is learning in Yeshiva as a Lubavitcher and then grew up in that system and he knows Lashon Kodesh well, he could read the original. Is there Is there Is there a benefit for him to utilizing in things from Sichos in English for his own understanding or it's not necessary? >> Let's let's step back. I got grandkids. Go go to Lubavitch high schools. My grandkids unfortunately don't know Yiddish perfectly. Some of them yes, some of them no. Even those who do it's not perfect. They're not perfect in it. Most a lot of them are not. They're very and they're all fluent in in English. Their English is better. Even those who know Yiddish, their English is better than Yiddish. So, in in Eretz Yisrael, the people the people who are learning who they speak Hebrew they're learning the Sichos in in translations. In Lashon Kodesh. People think, "Oh, it's in English." It's not It's not holy. There's no >> [laughter] >> The holiness is gone. On the contrary, I I look at that as a ma'alah. You're right. It's The holiness is not is gone. You start to understand you know, it's very easy when something when it's a holy text in text you're saying to >> holy >> I learned the Gemara. It's not but it's the Gemara is up. I understand going to convert. I'm learning the Gemara, but I'm listening but I'm sing-songing it all along. and I don't understand a single word that I'm saying. If you read it in English, you're forced to look at the words and understand what they say. And that's what the Rebbe wanted us to do, I think. To understand what he meant. So, yeah. Now, so I think at a at a beginning stage, it is definitely very valuable to Again, we have facing translations, so you know you know we're not telling you not to learn the Yiddish. The it's on the it's it's two columns on the same page. Not even you know it's it's not even one page on the other page. >> You look at the safer here, yeah. >> columns on the same page. Yeah, so that you know the that it's the same >> that I I think that was an amazing I don't know whoever's decision that was. That was an amazing khiddush of this latest volume. It's not >> It's spotlight design. They they're you know like I have to you know like I remember we some of us saw some of us argued with them because it's easier to read English as a separate page. And they wrote and they were right about it. Is that no, we want people to go back and forth. >> No, but it also makes it like you don't have to be oh it's English forget about it or it's Hebrew like anyone can open the safer and utilize it, you know, yeah. >> And you see immediately that the Hebrew that the Hebrew and the and the Yiddish or the the Yiddish and the and the English are connected one to the other. So, that's you know, Baruch Hashem. And that's that that's the the ultimate goal there. But so again, I'm not saying that that you should that person we we read only the English, forget about the original. And definitely >> [clears throat] >> Excuse me, as as you go all go go deeper into the text, there definitely is an advantage in seeing Russian around, seeing the nuances of the original that you that you can't um really get in in English 100%. >> Right. >> Having said that, I I have friends who read my translations and they know Yiddish. Hey, what you did here is amazing. I understand the secret much better than I did in the original. Cuz we taught it. I mean, we've got an amazing staff. And in addition to all my own, we have Shalom Weinberg adds, Shalom Zuckernis and he adds. Shmuel Schwartz adds and his brother his brother's Zalman Mayor. You know, a bunch of people working on this. You know, solid minds who put in each one puts in their their own effort to make this this work accessible and understand and that there's you know, the full depth of what the Rebbe is saying is there. I know it can't be perfect. But like I said, I have friends who understand what they didn't understand the secret very well. They look at what we did as the same. You know, this is a It's amazing. Yeah. >> Okay. Definitely a major major I mean, the the the vast the the the volume of what you've done is it's pretty remarkable. And Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada Yada should continue being made fits to my honest heart, sir. And I really appreciate this conversation. It's very uh very intriguing. Thank you. >> Okay, I'm talking to you.