Ep. 52: When I Discovered the Reality That Was Always There with Rabbi Simon Jacobson

For me abr was like a living terra t coming alive in so many multi-dimensions you know there's one hand there's the m the the ideas that the shares or then there's the emotional feelings whether it's the nigunim or even the ideas that is sharing that are very personal or you know that that stimulate the emotions and then there was the whole the whole vibe you felt the you know bring by the Reb was you felt like you were traveling to another time and place. >> This episode is made possible by Kamish. To learn more about Karamish, stay tuned later on in the episode for more details. If you've been enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe so that others can enjoy it as well. In addition, if you've benefited in any way from a monkin podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at their.org/donate. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as our vibrant connection with the an inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day Jacobson how are you shalom wonderful to be with you >> okay great this is a special edition of among as we're recording it live there's an audience at the kinus hashim the regional kinus of New York and New England and Safel Connecticut and I hope everyone here enjoys and all our listeners enjoy. >> My pleasure. I [clears throat] look forward. >> Okay. So I'm curious um I would I would like to know you have two zedas and they're both they both have a fame in different ways and I want to hear about your zas and especially about your father and then we'll move on to Rabbi Sim and Jacobson. So you pick which zed that you want to begin with. Okay. So I'm a a good interesting combination of kum and gaja. You all know what that means right? Um I'll start with my my father's side. Okay. So actually our name is not Jacobson family name is Jakobi and uh for many years that was a family secret but now Georgians have become very wealthy. So it's like everybody wants to be Georgian. So now Yakabash really we're thinking even of changing it back but we haven't come to a consensus on that. So Jacob Ashilli means in Georgiani is son of Yakov. When surnames were given just as an example since we're talking's [clears throat] name was not the Mitbi. >> Yeah. So uh so Yakabashi was the name of my father's father. His name was Sim Yakabashi. I'm named after him. Um and he himself was a Georgian Jew born in a city called Koutayi or Koutis Georgia. Um just for the record, Georgian jewelry goes back traces its origins all the way to Baish meaning by Gasbl when the Jews went to Babylon. So then they migrated north which included Armenia, Georgia and so on. So even when the Jews returned to build the second base of Midish with Ezra many remained in Bville would be Persia, Iraq and so on and many remained in Georgia. Uh just again aside you'll see there are very few kahanim if any at all in ginim because Ezra made a condition if you want to stay I need the kahanim and the lvim. >> Okay. So my my father's father's family traces its way back thousands of years literally. I've met many of them, cousins and so on. And uh my grandfather was uh obviously not a kabad by birth. He was a Georgian Jew. they're considered somewhat um and um but in or in that would be equivalent of 1918 1919 he was traveling to Italy on behalf of his family business and the war world war I was taking place which is one of the reasons that Rashad moved from Labavich to Rustv because it was the front lines so he couldn't really travel so he ended up in Rustv for rash that year and uh he saw running to the rebashab so he was intrigued and he followed along and he was taken by the rebashaber and that whole rashan experience it's a long story which I don't want to I know we want to keep time limited but briefly bottom line he ended up staying inv the told him to become go to >> one second but when you a Georgian Jew ending up in av like he spoke Yiddish. >> He spoke Hebrew. He didn't speak Yiddish at the time. Later he spoke Yiddish. Um I remember I never met him cuz I'm he I was born after his passing. Um so he yeah he spoke Hebrew with the Reb but then he joined became a tom. >> So instead of going to to Italy Italy for business matter fact the Reb told him that one day he'll go to Italy on my behalf. which means there's aid. He's referring to my grandfatherbuch a year that the Reb told him he'll be going to Italy and it was McQueen 37 years later which is a whole again there's a lot of details around it. So bottom line he stayed there began to learn and was taken by and became a full-fledged and he ended up marrying um the niece of who was a of the tom >> right so he of his niece so it was like the first intermarriage between Ashkanazi and between Kum you know and uh my grandfather and my grandmother was a blueb blood. It goes all the way back to the alterb. My grandmother's name was Freda Kadosh was their family name. Her father was kadosh. My father's name Gshin Ber is named after Gish Parah because his mother his mother Freda was a great granddaughter of Gish Parah the great of the so that's covers more or less my grandfather became sim that is one of the 10 ines in 1923 that made the do everything possible to the last drop of blood to be mafish for the Jews in uh in Russia. >> He was part of that group. >> So he was one of the 10 and he was arrested ended up in Siberia but because it was Georgian connections Stalin and Beria were all Georgians. So they were able to their mafia was able to figure out a way they didn't get shot. But my father was the oldest of three children that he had. My father Gashin has had a brother Betal and a young brother Shalam Jacobson who was born actually in Poking later in Germany after they left. So they left like many Kabad families 1945 from uh Moscow. My father was born in Moscow and they ended up in Ping. The Reb's mother for example was in poking in Germany when the DP camps and they ended up in Toronto 195051 where my grandfather and grandmother are buried and he passed away in 53 1953 he met the rebba when the rebba um in [clears throat] he was there by fab was like the referred to him the but he was really broken physically by the torture in Siberia they broke his spine, you know, his spirit remained strong. But, uh, my father would tell me that. So, he passed away at age maybe 50, 51 years old. And then my grandmother passed away within another year or two later. So, my father was left as a yasum was called a kaiki yasum both from father and mother by 19. And he had two little brothers that he had to take care of. So, that's briefly covers. So my father grandfather was a was and then he continued that work in Italy on behalf of the 37 years later in the zik is sent in >> it's a little confusing it looks like the was the one that actually mentioned it but the obviously reinforced it so we are still working on the details to be honest not >> and then he went to Toronto afterwards >> yeah he went to Italy and uh in Europe and he was continuing the of uh I mean if you want me to go into details I can go a lot I don't know you you control the time here >> well I think that >> we have till uh 6:00 a.m. >> 6 a.m. Good. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that um a general overview is good because you have a lot to share on your own and I want to hear about your father. So maybe maybe >> tell us a little bit about uh your other Yanka Lipkar. >> Yeah. So that's my father's side. My mother's side. My mother's a Lipsker. Her name is maiden name is Lipsker. She's the oldest of nine children of Yan Lipsker who uh married to um Luba Ala Table who her maiden name was Lepker. So we're like cousins with the Labovskis. We're cousins with Feldman. We're cousins with the orphans. They're all sisters of my mother's mother. My mother's father Lipkar that was born in Palava. So the the big lipskar family there's a big one in him label label lipskar was older brother yank was a younger onekar is another brother an example is a is again a cousin of my mother's who married is also lazarov just to give you the so these are large families they were born in palava they were originally I think not kabadim the lips um I think they were um I don't remember right now different sold but bottom line then in Russia you know people went to the yeshivas so my my grandfather Yankypskar came very similar he ended up in Kayis ironically not nothing connected to the ther side because he ended up doing good work there and business and he also they opened the yeshiva there and my mother was born in Kay Yes, my father was born in Moscow. So, it's a little twist of things. Last year, my mother turned 90. We actually took her to Coutis to her birth place >> which was also an old cemetery of my my ancestors. So, Yankalyp to cut to the chase was in Paris for a number of years. Some people may know that the Reb when he came to Paris to meet his mother Kana Rebana, he trusted my grandmother's cooking. She was the one that brought him food was only trusted her just to put things in context. Then they came to the United States in around 1947 but they saw the freed they the fba told them to buy a farm in New Jersey. Farm was still a industry. There were people bought farms in vinand and other cities in New Jersey. And then that was not sh anymore. So he moved to Crown Heights. my grandfather Yankee Lipsker with my grandmother uh with my mother and her and her siblings. So I have a very famous uncles you know the gab of770s alipka better you know um um and others and um he became a gabi after Gordon who was the main gab in 770 he passed away I think it was 1969 so then three gabo were were were elected or appointed my grandfather Bulvski and Shia Pinson. So my grandfather became one of the Gab70. He was involved mostly in the choosing the Kazonim. Um I remember him always arguing with my grandmother. You know he would always say what do you think about the for the my grandmother says you can't have couldn't hear the and my grandfather says better you can't hear that knows and you could hear doesn't know. every shoppers they would have this argument. I'm the oldest grandchild so I was always sitting there just to give you a little taste of uh that world. My grandfather had a famous Grace grocery store Lipster Superet which um lost more money than it made. >> Today it's >> today Khan today Khan turned it into a whole empire. by my grandfather. First of all, he gave cigarettes either at cost price or free to the Bah that all the grandchildren were getting ice cream for free. Anyone [clears throat] that said that I can't afford it, she you know, I mean, it was uh let's put it this way, it wasn't a business. It was more of a a therapy session cuz my grandmother, people would come to her for counseling. This is my childhood. I don't know if any old-timers from Crown Heights, but it was a fixture on Kingston and Union. We're a continent today. So my grandfather was the Kazan. He's also a a I guess a uh an amateur carpenter. So he would build he had the woodwork in his basement in 770s that the Reb's table has a certain look. There's a certain >> Yeah. Yeah. >> upstairs also. >> Yeah. >> One upstairs that whole set. >> Yeah. Anything that looks like those uh I don't know how do you define it? >> Whatever checkerboard I don't know you know these. So he built it all in the basement and then they lived on president between uh Albany and Kingston. My grandfather passed away in Toshimhi 1985. My grandmother years later and um and that's my mother's uh genes and I'm this strange mix of Georgian lips, you know, it's it's it's a complicated. I mean, we're not going to do group therapy here, but if you want to understand some of the Mishagasa of the Jacobsons, you have to get to know the how these gene the gene pool. >> That's why I asked about it. We need to get the background. >> No, I understood your what's going on here. Yeah. >> Okay. So, let me ask you about your father. Just for the record, if you want to complicate matters more, when I met some of my guru cousins, they let me know that my grandfather's sim father actually was born in cuz he had to run away from Guru was born in his great-grandfather. Then he came back to Guru. So that really messed everything up. Now you have angle shamans. Yeah. I don't know how that fits in. >> But uh >> so in other words, if you guys think you're weird, so am I. >> Okay. >> Okay. So let me ask you about your father Jacobson which is a unique figure in labavich and unique yakas with the reb [clears throat] >> journalist and later al so let's hear a little bit about that and also this some of this you witnessed firsthand I imagine >> yeah yeah my my as I said my grandfather passed away before I he was born passed away in tiny giml I'm born tough shining z so 1956 uh it's probably noteworthy to mention my birthday is tavis I turned 30 when the >> the um so my father is the oldest as I said of three boys three children he came to crown high even though his parents were in Toronto he came to 770 basically 1951 so you'll see him in pictures yeah he got married 1955 to my mother I'll tell you the story in in a moment. So my grand my father came to 770 and you'll see him in pictures. There's quite a few pictures like you know in the early B in those years um he was already had a how to write as a matter of fact in Brena when he learned in the yeshiva my father was in bin um so he was uh caught writing an article in Yiddish for a Yiddish newspaper in Paris >> already then. Yeah. Yeah. He's already a troublemaker. >> What did I miss and do? >> Oh, don't ask. Um, that's why I was sharing it. So, so I was never in bin, but my father told me that there was a room that was like a cathedral like you know where I guess where Galim wants me to do confession. So, Ra Nissan would call in a ba there and he got my grandfather to come from Italy and they're sitting there and [clears throat] my was like trembling. He says, "Get this is my way. My father would tell the story. I'll translate. He says to read a newspaper in lab. It was like completely No one ever read a newspaper and and you're writing a newspaper with your name. At least you should have changed your name. My my father was like this guy. I guess I guess he was never a conformist. So, you know, he said I made believe. I'm like have I feel bad but they didn't really I felt bad that he slept my father from Italy and so I think they threw him out of yeshiva for two weeks. Um and uh after I said so what happened? He says my father I said I said but how did your father react? said my father says G better as long as you're in your yeshiv you have to follow the rules afterwards do what you want but now you're oh [snorts] that was uh so he was already a writer basically I mean it wasn't wasn't professional so when he came to United States he went straight to journalism >> while he was in the yeshiva in 2017 >> yeah no but not like like part-time wasn't like a full-time job he started writing like he would write an article for the Herald Tribune there was a newspaper called the New York Herald Tribune >> in English. >> How do you know how to write English? >> He knew he I guess he learned how to write his he always had a very strong Russian accent, but but writing was was perfect. >> Do you know if the if he spoke to the Reb about this then? >> Yeah, I'm sure he did because I'll tell you why. So my father started No, he wasn't writing like professionally like he would write he'd submit an article here and there and then he got I don't know what year he began to write for the Tug Morgan that was a daily Yiddish newspaper. um daily probably mid the mid youth like a probably tazv when he got married approximately I would say I know because the rebba you know familiar with kit labavich it's a whole para of its own you cover it >> it was reprinted it recently cost reprinted >> yeah so the rebba was the editor of it that's where we wrote an article covering >> labavich so chuv sub had a column but it also cover labavich events in the in the what years was >> then it stopped inv I think the rebba renewed it but he had zmanov who was a very talented writer himself uh he did say forunim and stuff like that he had zmanov become the editor and the reb suggested to my father to work for >> k labavich >> k labavich so my father was definitely involved in writing Uh, I don't know. >> Kadesh, >> Kadesh, but was the columns in Yiddish at all? >> I think it's in Hebrew, though. >> It's all Hebrew, so it could be. My father was fluent in Hebrew. In writing, he could write Yiddish, Hebrew, Russian, even German. He was he was good at languages. I saw stuff from him, but I never really I can't tell you exactly how much he wrote, but that's where I know my father was married to. So we're talking now 1955. So Thomas on tape you could hear the Reb says but not on ink. So clearly he was a ink guy and the Reb wanted to make sure he should say on the real thing not on in you know as a metaphor. So he was clearly involved in writing and then I guess I know I know he became a he there was a thing called radio free Europe. I don't know if you ever heard of that. >> No >> it was radio broadcasting that was reaching the Soviet Union cuz you know so was a iron curtain. You couldn't get in but radio could get there. It helped people get information outside of uh Soviet Union. So we have pictures. I saw my father speaking on radio. So he was involved in media basically. uh years later I asked my father why did he go into media you know all your friends became you know tikkatage selling schmatas or whatever they did so he said because newspaper covers everything everything in life is is covered in a newspaper I also asked my father then I was a little kid I said what do you do in a day there's no news you know there's no such thing but as a child you think one day what's happens when there's just no news you know so my father said the headline will be that today there's no news you know That's news. >> Yeah, that's the news. Um, so those years 55 56 basically when I was born he began to be a ongoing writer and editor and >> Tomal and it was a in St. Louis there's a newspaper was called the Jewish Post and Opinion or something anybody knows uh St. Louis Jewish. Um, so he was writing, he was a he was a writer. Uh, he was very good friends with Ellie Wiselle >> from the tug. Ellie was wrote for the tag and Janelle >> and for the forward also for the forvit. >> Your father wrote for the forwards. >> No, no, my father. The for was a socialist newspaper, >> right? >> Um, there was a Yiddish newspaper called Yiddish Fryheight. That was a communist newspaper all daily. That means they had readers. Um, and they were all on East Broadway down in the east, the Lower East Side. I remember I would sometimes go there. They had all these Yiddish writers, you know, they were all like, you know, Groyan, but they were brilliant chomping on cigars and and, you know, whatever. My father was only from a Yamakard. But I remember going there. It was an interesting site. all like the Yiddishist and all this these intellectuals that that my father hung out with and and to was more the conservative more they have no >> it was more conservatives it was more there were none of them are from there was no such thing as like a media or what you have today from world was very small then and they didn't have newspapers but it was more conservative more so my father uh met Ali Wizelle and they both they he was a journalist Ali Wizelle at the time and he was a correspondent for it's irrelev it's relevant you'll see in a minute it's connected to the rebba he was a correspondent for which was the largest daily Israeli newspaper at the time and in 1959 1960 he went to publish his book night it's very famous book in English huhel memoir. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. But it's a very but it's a very came that was the book that you know put him on the map. So he asked my father to take over his position. So my father at night would those days there was no email or anything. So it would call file. They would send it like by telegram articles. So my father was the correspondent for in New York and the in the UN. And so that just broadened his journalistic connections. Um and that's what he did. That was his work. He worked for the government for a while as well. So 19 just to give a few little you know anecdotes about my father and the relationship with the rebell you're connecting it some the rebba. >> Yeah. Yeah. You'll see in a minute. Yeah. So so this is now early 60s now. Um the Reb was obviously always into um really the the idea of a fata using newspapers. We know even back in Europe when he was working for the Fredba the Reba himself would publish some of Fredba's sikas in the newspapers in Vasha and Warso and so on. So the reb was always using newspapers wherever possible to be publicized like Nissen Gordon was a colleague of my father's >> another labure that >> and the also the came out to his Levia when he wasn't coming out anymore it was also very m of him because he did a lot of good work for he would write about the write about >> had him and the did the citizenship >> made sure the Nissan Gordon was in the room. Oh yeah. Yeah. So Nord was a son of I mentioned before the Gab of 770. Um so the early 60s I don't know I can't tell you every interaction like what was the first time the Reb spoke to my father about newspapers? I don't really know but I said likeavage. So my father clearly was interacting with the Reb. Um my father was also a ysum remember and the rebba special ku to people who didn't have parents because like the reb felt it was so my father before getting married the actually like called him in g some he didn't have parents my father went to without his father and mother um um so I'll just say that so my father because he had a yasum two two brothers that were so bal was already 161 17 so he was in the dorm Labavage Babage Shiva but Sullam was a seven-year-old boy. So my father asked the Reb what to do? His parents are he has no parents. The Reb said bring him to New York and hire the Reb told him hire a family that has a lot of children. Pay them to take him in. Reb said don't go to family members. Find strangers. >> Yeah. Uh the obvious reason didn't say the reason the obvious is because yeah you don't want to have favors from them and then they'll feel you know it's uncomfortable. So my father looked who's the biggest family in Scar Heights the Lipkers they had nine children. So he went to my grandfather Yanka Lipkar in 770 and said to him he has a a 7-year-old boy and he's ready to pay every month whatever. And my grandfather said from his end absolutely but he has to ask his wife. and he went and my grandmother said immediately we have now I will have a 10th child and they took him in like a like like with all the love actually she probably treated him better than she treated her own children so my father would go visit him and of course there's a eligible bachelor my father and an eligible oldest daughter of the lipkers my mother so they met that was the and they got married in Taz so That's one part of it that was messed. Um in the early 60s the first interaction I know that Eba with my father was um >> interaction you mean conversation. Yeah. Was in in in the Vatican city of a via there was what was called the ecumenical council. the the Catholic Church was going through a whole change of like eliminating officially blaming Jews for killing Yoshka etc. So my father asked the rebba that he's being offered by his to go fly to Vatican. It was a historic event to Vatican City. Should he go? Cuz on one hand Vatican City is like you know Vada. So my father myb said absolutely should definitely go and before you go you should read a lot of books on Catholicism really >> because they have all these secret ways of doing things and the more you know the more they'll trust you so you'll be able to get more information. That's what told me you should do his research. So my father became an expert like like I couldn't believe it like and every time you know they chose a new my father knew every secret like you know the white smoke and the blue I don't want to go into it's not really the point of the that um podcast but but they never had this interaction with him and my father was there for a few weeks and he covered the story. Another interesting point, Aishman in 1961 was caught in Argentina by the Israelis and they, you know, the trial of Aishman was a big my father was the one that broke the story >> in in general in the world. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Because he was inside connections with the Shinbet with the >> in the tug marginal. >> Yeah. >> That was the Mar was the first one that broke the story. He knew already that they're going to do it, but it was a secret. So as soon as they he's able to publicize, he was the first one. He had he had he was very well trusted. He's a good journalist. He knew how to get people. He he knew. So the Reba used my father in that way in a very more than I even I know. Even my mother not we don't know as much that would probably speak to my father almost daily. I found this out later >> in person. >> No on the phone through Rabbi Khadakov would call. The Reb was on the phone. That's usually but the Reb would speak. I'll I'll share a few interesting I mean this can be itself it own. Oh, no. Sure. Sure. Yeah. >> It's made. So later my father didn't talk about it. It was very confidential everything. Um but later I I found cuz my the Reb saw my father like a trusted source cuz my father had connections in Washington, in Israel, in Russia. So uh so this my father broke the Aikman story and I don't know if the Reba if my father interacted with the Reb that I don't know but with the the Vatican City for sure then just to go through a few other parases um in 1967 was of course the Muhammad six day war and the Reb that was of course a big thing by the reb um after the six day war my father decided I'm not sure how it came up that he wants to go to Egypt. Wants to go to Egypt. Now he's a Jewish writer, not just a Jewish writer with a bear. You're talking about President Nasser in Egypt was alusha. And my mother said to my father the other go to Egypt. It's a sak they can suddenly you can disappear and where are you? I don't know. So my father said it would be a real big scoop for him to go because right after that not mish was the next year. So my father said you know what he asked the reb asked the rebba said it's a good idea but because there's sak involved the reb gave him a whole bunch of advice said the first thing as soon as you arrive go to all the embassies the American embassy the French embassy the Russian everybody should see you and take pictures with everybody so in other words they can't suddenly say he disappeared you know because he's here go to all the embassies and be very public everyone should see you're Yeah, that was the Reb. Then the Reb says, "Send postcards from Egypt to any everyone you know, wherever they may be." So like, you know, just make sure they know that you're not they can just like make believe you this, you know, one night. And the Reb actually gave my father two pairs of film. I'm not sure what what and he said that when you go there, there's an old Cairo synagogue. There's no one there really but if you go there you'll meet a Jew and he met a Jew there and he gave him this film the Rebus my father I asked my father what was this he said he had no idea like it's like a sadikist type of thing so the Reb was involved in that sense and my father went and uh and it was a big thing then he he couldn't go from Israel he went through Cyprus and then he went back to Cypress and from Cypress he went to Israel it was a big hero like all the front page Christmas they had pictures of my father and a camel on a camel sitting with his Arab garment you know clothing and all that and he was like you know cuz he was like and he interviewed Nasser you know it was a big thing um that's sad and some of the ind the visuals that you mentioned like Ellie Wizelle is >> oh I was going to let you talk about Ellie >> Wizel and there's other characters that the had a whole >> Nataniel and what is that story >> talk about some of those characters that I think was because of your fathers, the whole >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The truth is I we could talk, you know, I want to respect your structure here. I could talk about >> I want to hear a little bit of more about these characters and then the algamina and then we'll move on to Jacobson. >> No, no, good. I'm I I don't mind any way you want to do it. Um so Ellie Wiselle was very close with my father. Really close. And he was very angry and very you know his the Holocaust had really affected as he writes his his amuna and all that and he didn't want to get married you know was like God disappeared for him and uh and my father would always tell him you can't live that way and um they would have these conversations and then my father said to him why don't you go see the Reb he didn't want to go you have pictures already in tough There's a picture of him in a beret sitting behind the rebbit. You ever see that picture? Very early picture. If you can get a hold of it, it's it's Kadai. He didn't go to yet. He came to Fabang. >> And that was through your father. >> Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Cuz no, he was not he was not interested. My father said you should go see the Reb talk you could talk to the Reb openly about all your things. and I think maybe even earlier he came to Fabang and uh and he wasn't yet so famous was just he was just beginning to and then over the next few years um again I don't know the whole really but at some point there was a a famous and then there's the follow-up letters that are printed today this was my father was the one that orchestrated it meaning got him to go and and then with the rest is history. Basically, the Reb telling him that you're creating a second holocaust. You know, you're just you're doing what Hitler wanted there shouldn't be a continuation and the Reb persuaded him and then wrote him this long letter in Yiddish. We have this long letter. was printed um beautiful letter like a realiz and that's when they connect you know he tells the story say then he came to I remember the second after he came to that that's when the reb spoke on our on the holocaust was because of him >> him >> yeah he spoke about like you know how do you how do you address it that's I I used it also that my book meaningful because very the yet we have tus like you know you don't have to defend all the was definitely yeah he was there which was not uncommon when there was a writer or something that every >> famous with yeah exactly so yeah so my father was like instrumental in many cases like this I'll give you another story for example Um he was a rabbi in Queens, the largest young largest young Israel in Queens. He was the head of the RCA which is the sabon of you know the wudonim [clears throat] know the name everybody it's a famous name when my father passed away then I heard a lot more stories cuz people came Shiva so there's this rabbi came he was already older and he told me >> not Hollander not no no no [clears throat] what not Hollander famous name Not not Hollander. >> Who? >> Not Bamza either. No. No. This is the common bomb. >> Yeah. Um, no. There's another one. It's a lesser. It'll come to me or it won't come to me, but we'll we'll we'll stick it in somewhere. But it was very fascinating. He said to me that around the start of called the RCA, Rebbitical Council of America or something um wanted to come out with a uh about something the Reb did. I don't know what like something the Reb said that they didn't agree with and they were going to come out with it publicly like that they disagree with it and my he says your father called me cuz he knew me well. He says, "Before you come out, why don't you talk to the Reb, you know, let maybe you can resolve it without uh coming out." He says, "The Reb is going to talk to me." The Reb does everything on his own. He doesn't talk to anyone. He says, "No, I'll talk to you. We'll schedule." So, my father got him a he went to and he told me this. He told me himself. He said, and everything was resolved. They discussed it and he came back to he says, you know, we resolved it. there's no issue here. >> So was not even we don't even know something. So he says to me, you can't know how many things your father prevented be behind you know back what they call back and uh diplomacy back channel diplomacy because that was one he says there were others also because he knew a lot of people. So he was able to diffuse things that could have been against me. So um this was what he told me which was very interesting. So, and my father didn't talk about much. So, I don't know how many, but there's no question that he was like a leazison. I do know this that anything happened in the news, he'd get a call right away from Kadakov to double check what's going on. So, he was like, I'm not saying he was the only source, but he was one of the main sources for the Reb. >> So, he was the Reb's man in the in the journalistic. >> Yeah. Like in especially Israel, I'll soon share about the diplomats. He would bring some. So this was um um those years I mentioned and uh tough lamemed bay the next well alf I should mention quickly many and people know these stories because my father publicized them I've shared them um lad he went to Russia again the rebba gave him he had a long long with the rebba Russia was very tough then on the yidden a year later they would start letting them out olive Resnv was the So my father went my father spoke fluent Russian so nobody trust >> was he a Russian citizen >> I don't know if I don't know if he was a Russian citizen anymore but uh >> he was able to go >> yeah he know for sure as a journalist and um and nobody trusted him the Russians thought that he was a Israeli spy theim thought he was a Russian spy because he's called so was it was it was a para but he ended up going uh and the reb gave a lot in there because there a lot of Russian Jews and the Reb told him this is so this we can talk for an hour just for the record. The Reb told me you come back come right into me cuz I want to hear of from so the Reb said very close to my heart and we know the Reb would talk about them all the time. So that's what happened. My father had a so famous all night from 11:00 p.m. till 6:00 a.m. 7 hour when he came back and it's unbelievable. It's most of it is already it probably deserves its own par. The Reb spoke my father gave the Reb the Russian because remember it was a prison. You couldn't write in America and they all wrote tat fat z they couldn't writeba and when the rebba got my father gave him like a few hundred of such notes and the rebba took it like my father said the reb was holding it like like a child >> like it was like a and the started reading slowly it's like tied up and started reading very slowly and started crying so my father felt very uncomfortable he's standing there so he decided to edge himself self out. He'll go out of the room when the devil wants him back, he'll come back, you know. He doesn't know, you know. So my father's about to make his escape, you know. And the re said made like this to them. You should stand. So he stood in the corner. He says it was a sight like being a kesh kadoshim crying like a baby reading the the notes from the Russian because they like you know poured their hearts out. So it was aid of that nature very emotional and at the end of that the Reb looked out the window and there was starting to get light outside the Reb stood up my father said the Reb was like fresh like like like the night didn't even pass and that's when the Reb said a famous ending of the he said ah anat that's what the Reb said he saw the light and so you could touch a lot of perushim in that because after they spoke about a lot dark things and the Reb said ah I remember because when my father came home he said I'll tell you what the last thing the Reb said you know you know that there's always a new day new hopefully anybody it's closed my father comes home middle of the day. I never saw my father even at night, let alone middle of the day. My father was very dramatic. He says to me, "I'm out of a job." I said, "What does that mean to like you know like I thought like we we going to lose the house? Like you know, are we going to live in the street?" He says, "No, not exactly, but he like he made it like I thought out of a job." And then the algor was born. And >> when he was born, what happened? There was a conception and a birth. Wasn't there some I'm just kidding. Um like like babies are born. I I'll tell you. I'm going to tell you. Relax. Um so the alg the tongbang was closed. It was a big shock for the whole Jewish community because it was without warning. The furvitz was owned by the radio stations. They had a lot of money. The the unions were killing it and there were less and less Yiddish readers. I mean there's many reasons and my father um he was a young man he was bay he was born sadik dalat that would make him what b uh >> you're the math major >> I am um okay so let's let me count >> yeah um sadi talid is uh okay whatever he was 32 30 38 years old so he right away felt he wants to do something we didn't have money and the rebb the rebb was a big encourager the rebb right away there's a lot of stories theb open the sight right away and theb said is in Miami you know the reb says I'm here and nothing's happening >> so so it's but I think their their newspaper was a s newspaper algam was supposed to be a lab newspaper >> oh I'll I'll I'll share exactly what happened. So the Reb was encouraging it a lot. My father needed some money a little you know. So then a few people came together. Menal Shamp was one. Um he brought a few partners of his notes Zeldas and a few people. Um [clears throat] I remember Titlebum and Label Mchkin owned a building. So they put the building up whatever they put together $30,000 maybe. That was relatively used. this money, >> but they weren't looking to make money. It was just to get it going, just you need something. >> It was a polar. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was. Um, and my father was the the person, the editor and the publisher. And uh so a lot of stories about this, but just briefly asked about my father asked the Reb, does he want a lab? So the Reb laughed and said, "A labavich is a do." said is aban which means subscribers and to get you know it's two different objectives. So >> why why are they not why why are they different? >> Cuz then the whole newspaper is not for your you have to do other things and >> to intrigue other people to intrigue readers you need to write things that are not necessarily in line with >> Exactly. And it's also not the mission of the newspaper. For the mission of the newspaper then it's more of a it would be more like you know like Exactly. Good. Very good. Exactly. Right. And and it wouldn't be credible. It wouldn't be seen as it would be seen as a kabad propaganda, you know, kabad teachings. It's not a newspaper basically. And then a few other things my father just to give another story that a good one with the reb um my father says some are saying that the newspaper needs uh a vad you know censorship bureau and people who look at all the articles >> no no to make sure all the articles are right the ads it's all Jew spiritually >> yeah yeah exactly So my father said to the I'll ask theb I don't need. So my father asked the whether theb thinks there should be like or whatever. So theb said what what will you do if they tell you to close the newspaper? So my my father said the rebba says I should get them and I have to listen to them. I'll do it. I'll listen. So the Reb then picked up his hands like this and he said mentions that was the has to learn 24/7 and one second that he doesn't reading a newspaper is so how could give a for even if it's kosher articles you know that's what the said he said as newspaper is for Jews Don't ask. Don't listen to him or don't ask. And then when you put in a vote from the in such a place, you're reaching even s like talking about >> that's what he said. >> No, you read before and the American liked picking on the reading newspapers. >> He said New York Times, you know, like that. So, so you see the Reb is like not just common sense the wisdom the was not saying have a newspaper that's it's not uh says you should learn so that was the Rebba's approach to it and um and yeah that that's when the Reb told my father the story actually that when he was in Warsaw the says the told me to go find the newspaper to print the deb Buddh So he said I went to look and I came back with a list of three newspapers four newspapers. So the said was like a million Jews before the war. So the said to him he's telling this to my father. So the started laughing he said and said I want to reach Jews that don't go to so my father said so which newspaper did you find so we found you know one of these socialist newspapers was pointing out that there's there's different kibushim it's not you know you want to have a a cave that's one thing this is a newspaper The Reb also gave the name Algamor. That was the Reba. >> Yeah. The name. >> Yeah. Yeah. My father asked the why. >> Joural. >> Alam Jal. And my father asked the Reb why cuz Algam is like saying like general newspaper or you know it's a strange name. So said that's what the Reb said. Then my father asked should it be cuz weekly was daily. So the Reba said to him, so I remember my father saying to me, "What is the Reba thinking that there's going to grow to Yiddish readers?" So I said, "I don't know." And today with internet, you can't even call daily >> cuz you updated every minute. And the said, "Why do you have to be my bullet?" So >> there was English right away also. No, that was later. >> That came later. Another outstanding thing that I can mention is so algina became for the reba very the I think from then on the kuim dramatically changed my father became even more closer to the rebba because it was like you know he the publisher >> at the at the end of the day it's not a newspaper but whenever the came out with a mitzvah whenever there's major >> yeah but remember the credibility was that it wasn't it wasn't being paid by labavich to to publicize the rebba my father was independent Okay. And it was news. It was >> Yeah. And my father independently chose to do it. So it has a different meaning than >> right away start with the in the >> No. No. Mayor Blau came later, a few years later started the gaden. >> Yeah. Um and uh there's a lot to say about this, but I'll just say one thing. The kiper war was right. So yipper war um my father was of course covering the reb went out. There was a lava before sukus and the reb went to be malava on the way back I mean the bhim from that time we'll tell you the story on the way back the ever saw my father standing there he called him over and he began to talk to him as he's walking back from Kingston to the 770 and he ended up talking to my father like 20 minutes and he gave him a full interview he said it's an interview so my father made a special the newspaper was once a week that week it came out twice with a interview front page >> exclusive interview with theb that's when the rebba said to my father later he would say in the faban that they should conquer Damascus and Cairo you know the sukus and the rebba speaks about it so the so my that was like a full interview that was like seen on the street the rebba spoke to my father like 20 minutes >> and he and he published the whole And then over the years this became uh the I told you I don't I know maybe 10% of it because it was ongoing uh people I will correct a few people think that the Reb was my every article it's not correct when my father wrote something that the Reb said and he would often send it into the Reb to make sure it's accurate and the Reb was often mia that but overall my father didn't take dictation from the Reb what to My father was a smart man. He understood the rabbis and Ashkafa and he presented and there were also controversial things. There was a guy, some weirdo that decided to put an ad in the algorina and signed at 770 Eastern Parkway and my the Reb would get the first newspaper. They bring the so to speak Wednesday night. They would deliver right to the Reb. The Reb [clears throat] saw this ad. My father got a call within minutes from Rabi Khadakov. Who's who put an ad at 770 Eastern Parkway? It was like some strange ad. I don't even know what it was for. My father said I thought it would it was cleared by you know from from you. She says no that was but my the newspaper was already printed but it was not delivered to the news stands yet. So my father called them they threw them all out and they got rid of the ad they changed it and they reprinted the whole newspaper. There were I mean there were some events like that. There was another example story was a guy called Schlam Shamir was a writer in algor and he was a his grandfather was a gabi by the gba. So he came from but he was like more liberal and more secular. So the rebba was very strong behind tin shaw. There was a few tin in malv and a few other times. So he wrote an article criticizing the tin saying things. You need an army. You need to be smart. What's supposed to fast and think it's going to save Israel? >> The Reb by the next. >> So, so you're saying that there's no censorship like your father an article. >> Yeah. Exactly. You know, criticizing. >> He didn't say the Reb. He didn't mention the Reb. He mentioned the cuz it was like good officially, >> right? >> But the Reb was behind it. >> Okay. >> So, he didn't mention the Reb. He didn't mention any names. He just said, "What do they think that they're going to make a tinus?" Yeah. My father published it and uh I also he was a weekly columnist. My father couldn't you can't tell a weekly columnist you write this and the Reb was fine with that. I'll show you what happened. They never yelled by the about it. Reb said you know like was very upset about and my father was sitting at the at the end of if I may say this Abiel goes over to my father manuval because he calls thebish my father wasn't happy so my father wrote to the rebba that he's apologizes that he aggravated the rebba wrote back to him or said I'm not sure the rebba as as a doctor for you know you're the publisher of a newspaper you have a columnist you can't tell him not to write something and I do the next week my father wrote an article criticizing Shamir that he could do that's the way you do it in a journalist you can't because then the newspaper loses its >> credibility >> yeah so that's another passion then there's a famous natanya mur story I don't know if you want to go into that because I did a few gems on that a few >> and you said there is um Israeli diplomats. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Those were the two things. Natanya Almur is a longer story. He was like a writer for the algor but also a very anti-Israel. It was famous story by Kesha. >> Say >> you want me to tell it? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So briefly, Nataniel was a actually came from before the war. He came from Poland. He was a knowledgeable guy. He was one of the who's the most aggressive. There was Hagana. There was Lei and there was the Stern gang. Yeah. They were the um he was from the very radical anti-B British you know they bombed King David Hotel etc. Um so he was a big big Zionist but then when the country became the state of Israel was founded in 1948 he saw the politics and the corruption so he became very anti you know because he was more of ideological type of Zionist and he was became very pro unfortunately pro Palestinian or whatever you want to call pro-Arab and he would write these articles that people like were furious. So my father in his colorful way decided a perfect writer for the algame man you know um [laughter] now he wrote a lot of beautiful articles he was a good writer but from time to time so my father's contacted him he knew him I said he wrote he read he wrote beautiful yiddish would you want to be a columnist so he said you know what I write about you know he says yeah so you know people can criticize so my father he became a writer So I'm not saying every month, you know, once every few months you got an article that my father got all the hate mail. How do you print such articles? Whatever. Um you could say it was a sell it sold newspapers. Okay. You want to say that? >> That's what I was thinking. >> Yeah. I I know how kabad people think. Um I I grew up I have soft spot for kabad, you know. [laughter] Um so anyway but the story that comes out of this may be worth the whole par so but he was also very anti-religious because he was like very anti-religious even though he was he was but um my father never would push anything on him but one day I guess my father had I say to us he tell so was in New was traveling. So my father says to him after maybe you want to come you'll drive from Manhattan after Y and we'll go I'll take you. He started laughing and ridiculous. He says I never saw he didn't look at a reba already 30 years you know he was like so he says no the is worthwhile you're in New York it's a good place it's like the same idea like with my father introduced people. So after a while, okay, fine. He says, "Will the Reb accept me? I mean, he'll know what what I write about." You know, he knew that. So my father says, "We'll see. You'll see. No one's going to hurt you. Don't be afraid." Um they come to they go by and the my father tells the Natal [clears throat] this is Mameish. First of all, we have the story. He himself wrote it. So this is like, you know, it's not a rumor. It's not one of those. So, so the Reb says to him, "Oh, I read your articles every week." Okay. So, first of all, reading articles and his articles. So, like he was like all confused and then the benchm [clears throat] I'll tell you in English. I'll say when God blesses someone with a to write, you have to use it out to the fullest. So you have a column. Your column has to always be filled with your words. Every week you have to write. If you don't, you're not using our the Reb tells him. He was like now completely like, you know, so he says to the Reb, the Reb is you know cuz he's thinking the Reb is reading and giving him like this. The Reb agrees with everything I write. So the Reb says, you don't have to agree with everything you read. you have to continue writing you come to the so the rebba tells him now he was really now like very flattered of course and the reb was taking the time remember theb didn't have conversations there's very rare >> and uh my father was standing on the side I heard the story straight from him afterwards he came to our house and um then the rebs to him like this I have to say he said made of our neighbors from people I know you're not afraid of cuz you know he wrote that but from I want to know if you have a you know any fear of hashem so when he told the story he said he didn't want to lie and say yeah yeah yeah you know you know like that and he also didn't want to say the truth it was respectful he didn't want to say I don't believe in this so he said A Jew thinks. That's how he answered. A Jew is thinking, you know, like so the Reb said, "Thinking is not enough. I'm asking you an action, not what you're thinking." So then he responded like this. He said in the that's how he answered at least I'm like the Jew in the story of now he didn't tell the story but the Reb right away knew what story he meant so I have to share the story is the Yid that was smoking on Shabas said you probably don't know what Shabas today he said I know it's chabas you probably don't know you're not allowed to smoke he says I know you're not allowed to smoke and that's shabas and smoking I'm doing it. So because the turns to the Jew doesn't want to lie. So this was he's telling the Reb, at least I'm like that. At least I'm not lying to you. And he said the Reb without missing a beat said to him. >> That's what the Reb said. He was like that that the was being on someone else and you're talking about yourself. He was like >> reminds you so it reminds me of the says but the says the that the guy wasing the says doesn't mean it's the middle of you have to go and sh >> Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, he was so uh blown away by that the Reb is and how he talked to him like you know the Reb didn't yell at him how could you write such articles like most people would do [snorts] he I remember he told the story he was very moved I could see he was like transformed even but story is not over he was so intrigued he decided he's coming back for you know the was giving then and he comes back he goes by the rebba and the rebba says to I hope you're not going to turn me into Russia. He says, "How could I turn the How could I turn the Reb into Russia? Who am I to turn the Reb?" The Reb said the says that if you speak, you're like a Russian. If you don't continue writing your column then what I said to you would be so you'll turn me into so he says I promise I'm not turn the I'll always continue to write you know this is the I mean so many just from the story it's unbelievable okay story's not over this is around three years later unfortunately he tells my father that he has yet Maka and the doctors give him only 6 months and uh and he sends my father two envelopes to be published post posumously after he passes away. You know he did pass away unfortunately and my father honored his request and he printed the articles. The first article the second is more about his life. The first one he writes like this. He writes, "Dear Yiddish, dear reader, as you're reading this article, I'm being done. They're judging me in Shaya." And they're reading and I know I did not live the life of a Jew. And I'm sure they're reading me a list of, you know, what I've done. And I don't know if they're going to give me any time to to uh defend myself or to like, you know, make my case but I know everything they read that is read below is read above that's what he writes so he's writing this article he wanted to be published after he's not here when he's so this will be his statement for the best this is what this person is writing so he says I don't have many but what I have is that told me I have a to write and that I should promise him to always write my column so I'm writing my column my final column here. This is the story. What do you think? Yeah. So, so now Jem contact me few years ago. I the story many times in my talks and Jem said to me um you know they didn't they they believed the story but they wanted more evidence you know. So I said first of all the article he printed the article he write it's it's a can't find the articles but they did find first of all there's a picture of the rebba and him and then they found took a video so they have clips but Freden didn't take full videos he only took clips and they hear that saying they hear the words so they knew that there's definitely and and and they see clearly that is standing and talking to him for not 30 seconds. No. So, everyone knew something had happened, but they wanted. So, I said, "So, let's just find the article and you just print the it's it's close. It's he wrote himself." And then we finally found that my father writes, "Next week, we'll publish the article." But we didn't find it next week. So, I said, "Let's look next year. Maybe for some reason, my father probably couldn't print it." So, that by his yard site next year, they found both articles. So was so then they inter I did like two living Toras just on this it's a you know it's like it's a it's unbelievable story so many ways. So this was a little taste of uh gersan >> before but I think it's a it will be a sin to talk about the algamin if you don't speak about the mif >> okay that's lv also that same year yeah so my father after tman lmed my father printed a picture of the rebba with two fingers you know the famous picture >> motioning to whistle Yeah, but the two fingers are in the Reb's mouth. It's not just uh and this I remember I was 19 already. Yeah, I was a ban 770 and my father comes Friday night to shul and I see everyone he's attacked by gitabat you know uh I'm going to say all the names you know that uh and they attack oh people yelling at him to print the picture like theb you know my father was like he was he was he was perplexed was bothering them not just there was a disagree didn't even say by it's not like some secret picture from not not everyone there were [clears throat] people who they're not that said absolutely but there were people they attacked him my father he was not my father was not a guy he could intimidate but he was uncomfortable obviously because they were yelling at him so he said like my father would always say write a letter to the editor that's what he always would I use that also when people have comments. I say write a letter to the editor and you're the editor. So write a letter, you know, and what does my father do? So they wrote a letter that in the name of they're making a >> So my father in classic style, what did he do? He prints the letter, prints a picture of the guy that wrote the letter, prints a picture of himself because he's being criticized and prints a picture of the again so people should see the full story. [laughter] This is my father. This is classic. You know, it's a story and he writes now saw all this but he didn't react. So it goes four months later I think the sixth or seventh you could you could all hear it that's how the started [laughter] and you can read the it speaks for itself the did not like the protest you know that's when he brought that that also had the same problem is making some assaults etc. And the rebua you know the whole the whole thing what I will say on this is this and he gave it my father but I knew my father very well he was he was a very intelligent man he understood the rebb's approach extremely well he's everyone makes mistakes but he I printed a picture of the rebim it's not was not you know today most people would say the did it not like we have nothing to hide Um he was he he was mav and the were still like you know old school. The same thing happened by the wayson's pictures. Also my father got from Gansburg a bunch of pictures the day of her wedding Udal kisliff and he printed a whole spread after the hostalas. >> A few pictures. >> Yeah a few pictures. And there was also people complained that was less but still there were people say how do you print pictures like you know like I remember my father saying well you want a rebbitson has to look like a sabbonson we have a beautiful rabbitson what's wrong with having a beautiful you know but whatever and um here too my father didn't have an issue first of all it's a newspaper he's not printing it's his mistake it's it's a it's not like uh it's not a kos you with the imamal. There was the whole para there answer >> yeah it's a sinner right the whole thing and even there >> huh >> right and there's that settle with the reb like explains >> explains that >> yeah but then he gave it to the >> but first but my father is not a he's not a you know so after after shiva after afterba stood up from shiva the called in three people into his room in the house He called in called and called my father and the rebba gave my father a2 $470k and gave for the article and the pictures. So my father said to the and that's when the rebba said to him he says um theb said to him said you should print more. So next week was another spread. Yeah. Um the Reb has covered the Reb once told my father that my father said people say the newspapers and the Reb said you know it's a that's the story so that's a little picture but in between over and under my father was involved in so many things I heard um after my father passed away By Klein and Udel and label told me whatever everyone knows there's even more my father I had a mini stroke uh on in Toshim hey I think it was yeah before Pesak and my father went by for matz the reb wasn't giving matzi yet he was giving through the kyungalite but my father got every he got full matzas and everything my father walks by and he was very depressed and also weak you know and uh my barl Ginsburg was standing behind my father because he was a kung And the Reb sees my father like this and he says like he said what's bothering you? He says it's my father you know like he said I can't do anything like he's weak and the put down the mas the raised his hands he says I'm older than you and I do everything. That's one nice story. The final one I'll say well fine we can as I said I can go on and on. of was the only time that Fabang the first day also. Um my father was in the hospital then because he had diabetes. He was and keeper in the hospital then by the rash the first day which was never I think only the maybe the first year the Reb spoke a little but was only then. So middle of the the Reb looked for me cuz I was a surprise. I was sitting like was right under the Reb's table. So the Reb wanted me to say I said label grown told me later of the record this was of your father >> I didn't ask him how he knows but you know that's what he told me so which was not appella cuz my father had this like you know the was not him but he did his position you know so uh listen the story suddenly everyone's calling me I don't know where I was my wife is calling me my office is calling me. My brother is calling meron is desperate. The Reb wants to see you. So I come running. The Reb comes out and he gives me two pieces of and he tells me a sweet and healthy year. And then he says the smile of that if he finishes the for which he was sent to the hospital they'll release him. So he was in NYU hospital and was it in 1 Avenue and 20s. I ran you know I took a cab I remember and I went there right away. I brought the cake and I told my father my mother started running around doing my father called her back. He said it's my not your visitor here. Um and I don't know what my father did. He probably did his things talking to doctors but was already very old then. He was like not weak, not the day after he visits my father. The Reb asks second. Yeah. And um so story I think I tell the story a lot because it's the Reb's attitude even who ends up in a hospital who goes on hospital to you go to hospital because you have no choice >> but the Reb sees everything as a >> right. So that's a little taste of >> that's a whole story of your father. >> Yeah. He had a talent to be a journalist and grab it. >> Yeah. Um I you know I'm very proud of obviously but I'm also I know that you know people say it's like I'm subjective a bit but uh yeah he was he brought the rebba a lot of he did he was a warrior. I didn't even go through the par of sat and aud start attacking the rebba. He went to war and that was I think that was where he was to his biggest uh kovim because my father lost they used to send us I mean they would they terrorized my father they beat him up they beat him up in sul once but he was like this was the the late lits in the >> yeah the tal the pum in my father was the central figure there cuz he every week he called him the tamay this poison and mice. He he like brought them to their knees. He was like he went immish went to war and I know the rebba was behind it was m you want me to talk about it >> you know. >> Yeah. >> Okay. It's fine. Um, so you probably know of course s mash about Israel and even though the sat and the and the rebba did see each other and giml and so on but as as the years passed um the tensions rose you know especially after the six day war when the came out with alula of alm attacking six day war is my sutton and not allowed to go to the so you can imagine and was very different but it really it really exploded invim and the s went crazy but then it was you know the rebba said what do you mean a doctor saves your life doesn't matter if he's from not from the whole thing you asked the three questions you know you know that para right I'm not going through all the details but bottom line is that they then began to do their satik real terrorism they printed then m I don't even want to repeat it the worst possible thing you could write about the reba I mean like like mash pashkville the pashville came out then and then I was on the mitzvah tank when they almost turned over a mitzvah tank in Williamsburg put him >> you're on the tank >> I was on the first tank it was happened twice they They almost turned it over and they were burning the reb I mean I didn't want to repeat it such a busha but I have to say it for the story they did things mish in the worst part you know things you hear I mean later they would throw the a dead dog in the oil that was a little later you know things mish behavior of Nazis the guys that cut the beard of of of menar and the same thing with with pinakor and and the rebba was their target. So my father began to go, he had the newspaper every week. He would attack them and for them that was the worst because it bad, you know, they wanted a good name. He attacked them. They say, "Why are you attacking? There's a few terrorists." Yeah. Yeah. A few terrorists, you know, he he went a war against them. Every week in the 10 pages, maybe 10 full pages of protests was involved. They got every from to to the a kadesh of the Reb >> of the Reb or what was the shamelessness? It was >> No, it was the Reb. It was all cover of the Reb because they were the Reb directly pictures. I mean the worst possible way. It was a it was a real war but media my father Algaman was a very big newspaper then it was very popular. It was the only there was no all there was no amies and there was no amidas. There was no there was Jewish press and there was algaman for it. But you know >> as Giml Tamas approaches many will be donating to Kamish. Kamamesh is a fund that was established shortly after Gimlamas. The objective of the fund is similar to the that the Reb himself established and the idea is that a fund needed to be established to strengthen and continue all of the Reb's and so on. Over the years, Kamamesh has engaged in many activities offering seed money in various of around the world. Most recently, Kamamesh has engaged in supporting and financing mitzvah tanks to combat the negative forces in the world and do the Reb's work of Asim approaches. Many feel that it is an appropriate and positive thing to donate to Kamish in honor and in connection with Gimamos. You can donate to Kamamesh through going to magbis.org m agpbis.org and looking for the tab of kamish. >> I remember when Wednesday night when the algamator would come to bench it was a line till president street. I'm not exaggerating but hundreds of people were buying the newspaper because was it was it was exciting news. >> Yeah. And the reb of course would get it every week. >> And remember came to my father and said it's affecting our business. We have partners s my partners. So my father saying they're not affecting my business, you know. So that was covered. Um and uh we would get every mai shabas and we're getting 20 pepperoni today for pizza pies. They broke our windows. No, I'm I'm I'm not this is not exaggeration. By the way, if you know that it's hard to imagine today mom is terrorism. They broke windows. My mother my father worked late cuz he would send he worked late at night. So my mother would get calls in the middle of the night. We we kidnapped your your husband or he's dead and they knew where he was. So like so my mother was always you know terrified. I [snorts] remember my brother was learning with his in in our house and a stone came flying was it was it common and uh but my father was the opposite. They didn't know who they're dealing with. You know he's a real sne intimidated. So it got stronger and stronger and he went every week. I mean I'm trying to remember it was just it was it was endless. But slowly he he won. I mean Labavich won. That's when Zion the Tala I was there. So we the tal we went to Williamsburg and um we were warned already that they're going to that we shouldn't come but the Reb said we should go. We go go every year. As soon as we got into Williamsburg, Jewish Williamsburg, right away they're already surrounding us and throwing eggs and misuses and they didn't let us go to the shors and then they started looking they started they got beat up because of my father and I think another grown got they all thought it was my father. I thought my father came. He didn't come to the but they're looking for Ghanian bet you know Gian Jacobs the Gal they call G. Anyway, that's when the said basically no longer the finished that was that was a real uh big one and that was lit then and um it it slowly got then what they did was probably the final straw they firebombed alg had office in Bay Ridge and they posted firebombed it the night of the newspaper supposed to come out the next day middle of the night they threw malotov cocktails. I'm talking about real terrorism. The whole building was in fire. Everything the whole building was burned down. My father came and he remember when he saw that they did the wrong thing for him. He said, "Oh, no, no." He went to Empire Press, they redid the whole newspaper with big pictures of the fire and he wrote the big headline. He said ne not Stalin and not Hitler brought us down and definitely not the mis from the when the s you know that's how that was his headline because Stalin and Hitler didn't destroy us. We're not going to let the s that was his uh voice and that was like a big one because he like really and then finally they became they could not withstand the pressure cuz everybody was reading that satir was was a terrorist every week with pictures. So they finally quieted down but not entirely. They still would went after and then the story with the oil with the dog that was like by the rebu that was like >> yeah [clears throat] what year was that meal? >> No masim that was in lament I think. >> No the late laments I think. >> Yeah >> was like a mdala that was later. >> Yeah. It was. >> Yeah. So there you go. Pretty colorful right? >> Indeed. Indeed. starting to understand some of the psychology of uh the Yakabash feel. >> You're getting it. >> Okay. >> Okay. I think it's time to um >> start a podcast with Simmon Jacobson. >> How many Okay. Whatever you want. I'm not as colorful as this. What can I tell you? I'm very boring compared to this. >> You have a very different colorful uh different experience. >> Okay. You guys are enjoying. >> So, okay, let me say >> so so we're here and the eyes are gone. [clears throat] So you obviously grew up in a very colorful unique um in Crown Heights and at the same time you're in [clears throat] with everyone else and everything like that. >> Yeah. >> So so everything that's happening in Lavich is basically in the Bayer from from when you're a child. But we we all know that you have a unique um [clears throat] unique story with yourself with and with so that's kind of unique to you. That's not something that your father did. >> So I wanted I'm interested in a little bit briefly about what it was like for you to grow up as a child. You mentioned a lot about your father but but about around the rabbi. >> Yeah. and the whole idea the way you got into the hanus and and everything like that before we get into the details was that something you knew you're doing at 12 years old or this is something that developed at a later point what's the story over there asked asked a long question about >> No no no I got it I'll tell you I'll tell you okay so I was born the oldest of five children a boy girl boy girl boy uh some of you may be familiar with my youngest brother um And yes, I went I went one year the first year I went to Hol kindergarten but after that I went to Babish Shiva Bedford and Deinine famous Bedford and Dean till 1969 there was the fire then we moved to Ocean Parkway I'm just giving you a little lay of the land I was by mitzvah in the year of tin lit the year of mash of Mashia we all thought Msiah was coming that that Friday afternoon. Um, and yes, I'm a oldtime Crown Heightser, born in Crown Heights. I born on St. Marks, lived on Sullivan Place, Montgomery Street, where my mother still lives. And uh, that was my so-called upbringing. Now because I lived in an interesting home, I mean what was unique was on one hand it was very intense because uh you know obviously it was all the traditional kabad uh customs. Pesak was uh the Russian style pesak were no processed food period. Everything was made, you know, at home. Potato potato starch, boiling sugar, colula, no milk, [clears throat] and especially when we went to my grandparents, lips are um OCD level. Um so, no, it's important. You'll soon see. But but it was be I honestly had beautiful experiences. I was in the right place at the right time, you know. Um only really wonderful memories. My grandma, as I said, Pesak by my by the lipskers was was something else. You know, everybody has their own plates and all that. Um so I had a lot to laugh at as well. So I remember sitting by the pes I was maybe 7 years old. Um my uncle, my youngest uncle. Um I'm sitting near him and [clears throat] comes to the first C. This is a taste a little of my uh upbringing. Um so there's a saber, right? You have to lean recline. So I'm reclining and he decides I'm not reclining enough like you know a seven-year-old lie alone. And he starts telling me you have to recline more. He starts like pushing me. So I said, "How much what's the like share of reclining?" You ever heard this? Like you know how much do you have to recline? Like what angle? Um and so I said, "What?" But then I I got like upset. So I said, "Why do you have to recline anyway?" He said, he starts hanging my head and says, "You have to be free. Be free." That was a classic example. And I So again, I did not need therapy for this. Uh it wasn't one of those. I found it amusing. You know, I found I I had a taste of what we call uh dogmatic Judaism for lack of a better word. A lot of that. >> Yeah. But my parents' home, especially my father, was the exact opposite. It was a be it was like it was never, you know, I never got a slap from my father even though the principal thought I did. You know, that was one of the ways that um but my father was very laidback and very uh easygoing, very comfortable in his own skin. So today when I look back at it I see there are a lot of insecure Jews and they use Yishkite as like a a crutch. But no I still I there's no By the way I speak openly because I don't again I don't feel that I was abused. I I was I feel I was entertained you know [laughter] that's how I feel. So I look at it more like I'm saying it because I had friends to be very honest my classmates that were abused that they had fathers that were you know mamish terrorized them you know I have guys that I know from my class that today um completely left yushkite part of it because they were it was trauma traumat traumatic for them I'm not justifying that I'm just saying so I was aware I became aware later I wasn't aware then I was a But so I had the reason I'm mentioning it is because it helps explain a lot of my own life because on one hand I was exposed to it all but on the other hand I had the the freedom because of my own parents to be very skeptical. I could ask questions you know an environment like that questions were not allowed. He asked a question like I remember I'm not going to say which teacher in the Bavaj I asked a question I said why do we have to learn all these hairsplitting details in the Gumar you know you give mortgage contracts and credit card statements to lawyers to read for you you don't have to read every possible scenario I remember the my teacher came over and gave me a slap he says you [laughter] know he was half Right. Um like >> she did she there was some abuse. >> What? >> That's not That's not abuse. >> No. No. Also not because >> that was normal. >> No, it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was again it was trust me compared to real abuse was not at all. I found it uh it it troubled me for a different reason. So for me, and I'm being very open with you, it's not something common in the kabad circles, but I'll say this. I was not inspired. I was uninspired. I was bored. That was really the biggest thing. So I learned I learned I had a good head. I was able to learn a gam but sometimes I learned and sometimes I didn't. There were there were months I didn't even know what we were learning very straight. It was a lot of waste of time and there was no real and there a lot of good a lot of good teachers we had but they didn't they they a guy like me you know I was also more of a like a more rebellious in a way more troublemaker. I wasn't like a goody goody kabal selnik you know you have to I was more creative and so on I'm talking in retrospect I didn't know it at the time and it was like yiddishkite was very mitzvah let's put it that way very cultural we did it why you know ding we all know I mean I'm telling what I'm saying here I don't think anyone in this room or anyone that's grew up is going to disagree that they had a similar day maybe it didn't bother them me it did bother cuz it was like media mediocre. It wasn't like you know I always felt that you want to be do something passionate with your life and this was when I started becoming thinking about things like this I'm talking about now 14 15 16 uh I was very curious >> I was saying was with the also like mediocre then >> the reb was the like the the king on the mountain I respected the rebba of course but I didn't have a personal connection the [clears throat] I remember those years we went for for toad whatever stopped it. So I went but what what what was your I wrote the same note I wrote last year. They told me I said what do I write? They said write what you wrote last year. I personally copied what I wrote last year and I said to myself what it's ridiculous I'm wasting the time wasting my time. What am I going for? So there was a between some said others said so work on yourself prepare yourself. So it was very mechanical. So it was not negative was not it was nothing. It was like that. So the Reb was there. I I was part of the scenes, you know, I I I got caught up in the excitement of it. But personally, no, I didn't I didn't understand yet at all. Uh was our remember he asked me he said what's so I said I remember he said to me that's what he told me [laughter] he said like a joke but that was that was myid um and but I'm not surprised because today I talk to people And I recognized right away where one guy said to me, I said, "You look this." He says, "Yeah, you know this 39 plus 10 this four worlds." He knows there's four worlds. He says, "I don't know where it is exactly in outer space, but there's four worlds." You know, this I I'm not trying to be funny. I'm just really trying to describe what what it was like. >> So, what happened? >> I was bored. I was bored. We played basketball. We went to the pool room once in a while. The big trouble we made was no remember we didn't have a lot of options drugs had not entered yet there was no such thing as pot didn't exist not that I was looking for I'm just saying so it's very innocent and I was not rebellious in the mice of a pale sense it's not like I needed to go out and do things out there in I was very rebellious the truth is as I look back I was looking for a purpose in life and I was not really feeling yeah I know it sounds strange because kabat is all about purpose admission, but I was not getting it at a 15-year-old boy. It was like, you know, was not said that way. Maybe the language, maybe. I don't know. I'm not blaming anyone, by the way. That's what was my my life experience. >> So, what happened to you? >> Um, I still don't know. You know, I'm still wondering. Uh, that's why we're here. I thought I'm going to learn from this that is going to teach me a dead, you know. Um, so so I I and I wasn't I wasn't miserable. I was just bored. You know what you means bored? You just sit around and you know um and again there was no nothing very dramatic about it. Like I didn't you know I saw guys in my class that had real problems at home this and they they got into trouble. Guys got in trouble gambling and this. I mean there were they were problems. I didn't but me it was like you know going through but I was like a rebel without a cause. That's probably if you want to sum it up. I wouldn't know those words then. Now I know. And um I really was thinking I was looking for can I find can Yiddish be legitimate for me not because my parents and everyone around me says it is. Can I live my life as an adult and embrace it because I feel it resonates with me. That was in a way the if if I were to able to pose it as a question and I asked people and I knew you couldn't talk about it much because as soon as you say anything like that you're right away labeled as a a heretic you know um so it was more quiet was more internal um and again I didn't do anything that was that would jump out that someone saw me they wouldn't think I'm going through you know but I was struggling internally and what happened was [clears throat] it's a series of events I got a little older and I like 15 16 now. I remember the first thing that really struck me was I used to ask all the mashim and my the counselors you know the head coun you know the guys you knew I said so how do you know there's a god you know I wanted to hear what they and everyone said the same you know the same uh slogans but I remember asking one guy I said how do you know there's a god and he said to me um I could tell you who it is it was a rabbi in Brighton he was the head counselor in camp I think it was Gimmel and he said to me because the world is gul these were the words he told me everything is finite and finite things can never turn into infinite so so it has to have a beginning that was what he said and I happen to like mathematics a lot I like physics and math I I I did a lot of reading on that and I knew that's correct it's a it's a mathematical rule you know the finite never reaches the infinite and I said how do you Did you hear that? Cuz I intrigued me. It intrigued me personally. So he said, "I'll show you." And he shows me opens. He shows me and I was first time I ever saw something in a uh it's very very intriguing and I started reading it and I started looking more and this was like I mean you know life is accumulative. There's no one thing that happens. I didn't have one thing. Oh, I saw the truth you know. So it just triggered something and I began to look more and again I was looking for for EMS. I wasn't looking to it wasn't like a yates thing that I'm looking just to to have fun. I was looking for real real answers and that began a process. The way the best way I put it is that I began to hear uh the music of Yiddish through I realized it's the spiritual that I really need that the mechanical because I knew I I learned I learned I learned my whole life that was just not you know that I knew the rules and I understand their importance for rules it wasn't bothering me but the rules didn't I didn't excite me let me put it that way didn't excite my soul I don't know maybe it excites yours Um and this did I be I I realized that the spiritual resonates with me. I started understanding you know soulful things and then I started hearing the differently. Then I heard a no longer as just uh a dukashi and then answers brilliant as brilliant as they were they were more academic. I started hearing that there was like a like a poetry a music I must say. >> Were you listening to the before? Yeah, but it was but it was I I learned I read a like I read on >> No, not readaban. >> Yeah, it was by Fabrangans. Yeah, but they were I didn't also the same type of lack of inspiration really. Not the nagun and the himself talking about the t was very deep but like learning a deep deep learning it wasn't that emotional for me. It wasn't didn't touch my >> Yeah. Does that shake it? Like I'm I'm trying to understand and I'm trying to hear from you like this change and like >> No. [snorts] So then I then I [clears throat] realized you know there's a certain maturity. I started realizing the Reb speaks you know you all learned the baritzvah. >> Yeah. When you when you said the mitzvah you understood one word you said >> um >> besides >> okay there you go. And then the Reb says that's not even the right translation. Right. >> And they took it out >> right. Yeah, exactly. So that that's how I heard it, you know, again I could hear the but the was gone. I again no not to resonate I would run I need to hear this because it's so important for my life. No I did not have that and again I look at myself I'm not I'm not blaming anyone and that changed. Then I started I I I it resonated with me. I started understanding like esospheris was no longer just a number. It was like telling building blocks of what makes us tick. I I I understood that very pretty quickly. I didn't then I started the more I got involved the more I I was intrigued by it and I like was drawn to it and then I realized this is a profound system. I always knew that Idishkite is here for 4,000 years. It's not by accident. It's not like a bunch of idiots just passing it on generation to generation. Jews are smart people but I just didn't know what the code was. It's like you know I can you see there's something here but I don't know but I don't know what it is yet. Changed that dramatically. It didn't take long. A few months I started I learned a lot and then I started understanding that it's code language really. You say the word just a word you have to explain what it means in in a spiritual way in a personal way and it became clear then I started understanding when the says that's what he means that every word who cares about a mit today but when you understand theem then there's lessons you know that it came alive the came alive for me >> beautiful >> that's really what happened and this is the year Then when that happened, I'm I'm almost like an extremist. Once I get intrigued, I'm in. I don't need like you know was I wasn't like lazy. I then like became excited about it. That was the end of Ocean Parkway. Then we went to Marstown and then I started getting very intrigued by the process of Fabang the Khaz and I and I went I went as I said I once I'm in I'm in all the way >> that because I guess you said you're an extremist. So now that you're in, you're in. So if I'm in, I need to be not just buying it. I need to retain it. I need to I could and to be very honest, I wanted to go to the top. Not ga, you know, I wanted access. >> You don't have any ga? >> No, I have plenty of ga, but this was not what's driving me. Here was more I wanted like if you like music, I want to be good at it. >> Right. >> Like that. >> Okay. So, so then I I began to uh hang out by and be with Kazer and I would listen. >> But while you were in Maran >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You come every so stay with the bus go back to Maran after >> Okay. >> So I would like hang out and I started getting to know who the [clears throat] know I became friendly with David Felman with David. >> What year is this? >> Lammed V. Lammed H. Lammed Hammed Hay is really >> who are the characters that found they were just beginning to reform. You know you you had on your podcast they were beginning to reform. >> We had and yeah so who are the guys? David Felmanov um and then they had a team that helped to name Wahberg. Yeah, >> he was also >> he helped in Mikas more research and I didn't get involved directly with them but I got to know them and by I would like pipen something though said I would say you know I heard this there was a little democracy by >> yeah yeah yeah but but anyone could say oh you know there's sometimes say you know and it was very easy in that sense And uh as I as I and then that was lamemed then when I came back to Mar for the yeshiva Sunday night. So I already started I was I was intrigued also by the process of memorizing that the Reb speaks and there's no recording and you have to remember it. It was like a challenge. It's like you know can can you remember I didn't know if I could or not but then I began I and I was I was I was pretty good at it. Then you get better you know. Um I remember I kaz fab once and actually walked by uh and he and he came over to me. He said they good. I remember. So it was like encouragement you know from someone that and uh and I but really nobody really you know as in they don't give you any compliments and nobody cultivates you. You got to cultivate yourself. So you need to have a lot of self-confidence because if not everybody's battled you right away. Who do you think you are? Who you? Yeah. Who are you? Yeah. Um or go away, stay go, you know, like that. Um then that was Martown. Then in Lad I came to 770 and I was not a you know going to what do they call it? Uh a a bench presser. What do they say in a bank? I wasn't like that type of masid. And then the Reb sent a gift night. The Reb called him Mentlik and I was there in what's going on. What is it? >> I thought I'm talking to insiders here. Okay. I'm just kidding. It's all right. I'll tell you. I'll tell I'll tell you. So I came after they sent all the B in my class to different Seattle began. Then Miami was already Yeshiva. in Melbourne was yeshiva in New Haven Cincinnati a few other places I don't remember so I don't know maybe this is confession time mo here again I went to who me and him would always have and he said to me >> he was the and and once I was intrigued I learned a lot from these cuz I was absorbing and I was like very I was it was the good But I learned too, but you know um I remember so told me you I'm going to send away to the worst possible. So I remember the last and we're all dancing. We're half old. So I went over to Schmoolik I said if you want to really do me a favor I know you don't want to don't send me anywhere. I belong in 770. I got to be there. So he said if you want to be there then I'm not going to let you to be there. But I ended up not going anywhere. Thank God. >> It's amazing the relationship that you had with your >> Yeah. >> No, we're actually very good friends nowadays. Um anyway, I ended up 770 learning and then the Reb uh NITL was Friday night. That's not a usual cre. It's like a little uncommon. And the Reb the classic way that transforms everything. So NL what what did Baham do night? There's no chess. It's shabas, right? There's no uh anything else. So, it was an official bull session bull session in long shabasim that start 5:00. So, from 5 till 9:00, you're sitting for 4 hours officially uh you know, shooting the breeze, whatever. You know, people would actually have topics they came to talk about, you know, all the lionists and the politics. That was the nle Friday night. So we're sitting right after Maid and Mena goes into Reb's room and we don't know why suddenly Mena comes out a little nifa upstairs in 770 all the B was packed all the B were there the Reb has a two we were all so intrigued like what's going on here and it's interesting you know you're not supposed to learn but the Reb came out of about learning you know interesting thing and they all was that the Reb wants to establish two things and because that year a few months before a month before the came out with B said who printed yeah and he wanted the light to make until they should finish and whoever wants to volunteer encyclopedia of the of called they never gave the name everything and that do it. It's like hit like that was the the real uh and I to me it was like a gift. I thought it's m for me cuz I was like sitting and learning alone but research and preparing and wor was like up my alley and uh and then not shabas we all started like 150 bim and by Sunday morning it ended up six guys [laughter] as usual and I was part of that mus for a good few years then while I was also involved in the writing the fab and the so this was be this is my beginning of my career So you were telling >> so to speak. Unpaid for the record. >> Yeah. It's almost still unpaid, but uh you know >> it's coming soon. >> Yeah. >> So >> maybe once people hear this podcast. >> Sure. Yeah. >> We'll make a a charity campaign. >> I'm just kidding. [clears throat] >> We'll split the We'll split the process. >> Split the proceeds. [laughter] So sayim >> I was discussing with you last week about some of the process what what what did it mean what what was the undertaking? >> Well nobody knew about the we knew there was but that was like four overwhelming like 40 50 volumes everyone knows but that was it. So we had no clue what it was but it was clearly the Reb wanted it. In the beginning we mamish had no idea. I remember even talking to Rabel and to me and I said what does the Reb want? They said I don't know nobody ever really learned. I mean these guys learned privately but it was not like you know even today how many people know what is um because so many but now in retrospect I see the value basically has kidis in it. is like das brings everything from and uh so essentially it's creating which are entries let's say you want to know about snow what does say about shell you go to you'll have everything you need now remember this is before Google and before AI so it's all a physical encyclopedia today we understand that probably this is a speculation that ever wanted to say for but was working snail pace of one volume every 10 years I'm not exaggerating so I think that was another way of getting an encyclopedia and that's why the said we should start from to and work our way backwards we thought maybe he could meet Rabel halfway we didn't actually do that but um [clears throat] so it was six years a project that bo did I you're working with only the printed or No, no, we started with printed which were many at least 40 printed and so let's say I did let's say the first I did was so you find everywhere near that talks about we would make photocopies of it then organize it like in structure what is when will it happen and then you had like what's called a full entry you know the same thing on I did it there was t was a Um this was taking all the printed books and the Reb said the end of every entry all the indexes from all the on the same topic. So if you go to at the end of it you'll have everything from the on all in one place. So at the time we didn't understand the value. Today a lot of people use it. It's excellent for research. I'm telling you you want anything um you can find it there and all the and all the so you like find you can it takes you everywhere and of course and every Friday we had to give in a list to the reb we've given and the reb would comment and it was it was a real it was for me it was a mamish gift from above because it's gave me a real project it was research Arch was everything I was good at. I I I [clears throat] knew I could be I wasn't good at it yet, but I I I learned on the job. It's like a research project essentially. I've told I told us before I spoke a few months ago to Danola and Babach Shiva. I said you have to create projects like this for Bim who can't not everybody's ready to sit and learn six hours you know they need research learning research. Learning what's wrong with it's it's learning >> projects. >> Yeah. And we did it. It was a it was fascinating and the reb would interact. Then I remember the first time that it was like a big then later when the manuscript started being coming to from from you know the handwriting of the Reb told us to compare >> this mean from Poland >> from Poland came upon. >> So yeah so then the Reb told us to compare it and >> it was a big job. >> So what happened when you compared? So I think I shared some stories with you, right? >> Yeah. But no one else was here. >> Yeah, that's a good point. Um, so I have to give a little history in uh the when he left Russia. So we know he left some libraries in Russia. That's where the library that the Reba wants wanted to come out. But he took some things with him. We know this whole story with this he took with him. But by the the Nazis confiscated some of it. So the didn't bring everything. So in 1978 they found boxes of the Reb's handwriting. So it was a big sim by the Reb. He sent and Okay. So they brought the books. So being that we were working on the Reb said we should compare everything to the original manuscripts because the Reba when he published it didn't have the original he had a hat means a copy and the copies usually had mistakes. So there's a lot of interesting stories how the Reb the Reb would sometimes in when he had a bad copy he would write in a footnote that there's missing a word here and the Reb would fill it in. Then when we looked at the the wasab in most cases but there were a few places where theb wrote something that was different than what the wrote. So what happened? So we asked the what to do. I'll give you an example. Uh I think it's in the talks there about so he says something like I think that the I don't remember what maybe and blank in the he had it's just a blank line from now I'm looking at the actual handwriting and he writes and I look it up. Yeah. And it says there when he had a blank he wrote a footnote that he looked in did not find it in but look in that the same idea. So what do you do now is telling us where it is. The reb writes he didn't find it. So most people would say the is not valid anymore. Now you have the who wrote the in the first place? Everybody following? Okay. So I wrote to the Reb and I asked what do we do and the amazing answer the Reb said leave my order as it is and in the footnote under the right after a while the original manuscript of the came and that's what it says there. So in other words the Reb's words are just as holy and the Reb left that and the there's a lot of examples like this that we had interactions. Now you have to remember for a baka like myself this was exciting because you were like interacting with the rebba and learning and research and you know I remember waiting for an answer on this. I went I was so I couldn't even I couldn't breathe. I wanted to hear what I was going to answer. >> Who wrote all these things in? >> Well, I wrote a lot of them or other people in the we had a few guys. The first the original editors were myself um uh Manasha Perman who's now in Chile. Um Mayor Schneer, he's in Montreal. Uh Rifkin, a guy called Feldman, he's Israeli. Ar Molan and uh what was his name? Um Matasov he's a in um the oldest one of the older brothers high older than Ella >> Madison >> no no no much older he's married to a pinson anyway there was guys now they were older I was the youngest by they were all married so I'm suddenly left alone in this whole so I I created a new staff me a whole bunch of these guys that were here that told me they were part of it. So it ended the project finished me giml so it was one of the few projects that began and ended >> it actually ended >> actually ended and the reb was very happy six years it was a project of six years I I I only worked there for 3 years cuz in lit I started really getting involved in >> okay so now tell us about the >> okay so now comes the I started helping I started becoming more involved and I started looking over the adding I I wrote a few of Um but the main writers David was the main writer in the Yiddish there was no nothing was Hebrew alv took over after three griml went to Argentina myim um and that was the the work in night filman decided to go to a lot Israel so that I was the natural guy to take over he asked me to become the writer so I became the official writer And basically shabas my first shabas that I wrote from beginning to end and that I did till the stroke the week of so I did this for 13 years as the official writer. I was already from so basically 15 16 years that I was fully immersed in this work. you know when they had the heart attack for example so you know he was the that's when I really started working with Rabiel very heavily was writing the and I would s work with him so I learned a lot on the job >> see typically he wasn't writing enough >> no no but that was a special yeah I I always tell the story just as a funny anecdote was a a character tremendous I mean of tremendous sat because I learned a lot from him because he was uh the things that he had his strengths were unbelievable he had also mishan like everybody um and we but we were very close and I remember he would uh one night it was like 4:00 in the morning like now what time is um and uh he was working and and I was like you know bringing my safet I was looking up things whatever and he says to son he says to they'll start for you like middle of 4 a.m. was asking you like do I want to do a favor for so I thought was he want cigarettes or coffee I don't know you know what's what's the for he wasn't sending me to or something so um so I said so he tells me I should learn the so I told him right now he says you know so I said why why is that a he says Everything is if you knew we'd have to sit and look and search and ISIS and Zak and everything would be half half of the work would be done already. So I said I'll get back to you. I'll let you know you [laughter] know anyway that was a funny and he told me a story actually said when he was a bakb asked all the misha in 770 to take a safe and learn it from beginning to end for that year you know learn it solidly. So he took the and the told is that's not you should do. So he did he knew like nobody every letter he you tell him a letter he could tell you what page it was on exactly he was like because you know the innocent he learned the but that's when he that's I remember that was like so I this was the experience like every day I was surrounded by such experiences it was very rich uh what should I say you learn a lot from uh Abiel was there from the beginning so it was tremendous experience and then when the reb was mia you learn from Hos I mean >> so one second one sec okay so >> go go go go go ahead >> so I want to ask you about some of the process and the reb's interaction with it but before can you explain to me the reb's fabans general what is the what is the uniqueness of it what is the contribution that the rebba brought with fabangans that didn't exist before by all the other What's going on here? >> Do you want me to say this to a kabad audience or to a larger audience? [clears throat] >> I'm kabad. >> I don't know what you are cuz we didn't interview you. Ah, the mystery of of the the Mr. Okay, I'll answer in the broadest way I can. Um, remember I know um through the lens. So even though we learned of course especially I'm very familiar with because I worked in it. Um so when you ask a question like that for me the challenge is can you really talk about the of the without talking about the ofidis in general because the reb come out of nowhere theb tookidis and [clears throat] he added to it and added them. So I that's why you know it's a really a full good answer. >> Can I narrow my question? >> Huh? >> I want to can I narrow the question? >> Yeah. Yeah. Of course. >> What what's the uniqueness what of a of the fab what is this? What is this experience? What's going on? >> Okay. So you don't mean the the t per se. You mean the >> includes the t also. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, it's a very um it's a great question to be honest and I think many people have different answers and they're probably all right, you know, cuz it's like asking someone listen to a niggan. What's the experience of a niggan? You'll have one experience, I'll have another experience. You know, [clears throat] for me, a was like a living tada coming alive in so many multi-dimensions. You know the expression multi-ensory you know it gets all your senses going your sight your sound taste touch and smell because it had everything you know there's one hand there's the m the the ideas that the shares or so then there's the emotional feelings whether it's the nigim or even the ideas that is sharing that are very personal or you know that that stimulate the emotions and then there was the whole the whole vibe you felt You know was you felt like you were traveling to another time and place if you really were involved you know you're immersed like going to a different world to me that was like travel to a different world especially the years once I really was in Khaz to me I was not even there I was just like in the just listening and absorbing I wasn't I wasn't processing I wasn't thinking oh you know this is a nice scene here's how I'm going to describe But I was like in the scene if you know what I mean. It's like you know you ever get you you're listening to niggan and the niggan completely consumes you. You don't even know where you are. You know that's how I for me it was like just you transported you to another time and place and like the rev captured the whole of ta of elus of emis you know my b my book toward a meaningful life I write in the epilogue that I wanted to name this book reality reality um because for me the rebba captured emis this is what's real you know we live in a world that the table is real the food you eat. These are all superficial things. Calls it the outer garment, outer lavush. You got an experience of the inner forces. I remember thinking many times I remember um the speaking about I'm speaking now exactly as I remember the fab and I was then 18 years old and uh so it wasn't wasn't it wasn't it was you feel like experience like you're experiencing ma and here's exactly aish I had I felt like the reb seeing something we don't see and describing it to us. Like you know, imagine someone's looking behind the curtain and you're sitting on this side of the curtain and he's telling you what he sees. And remember the Reb describing how you how the the is the between where you can take now material object and turn it into. So you're taking here take a piece of wood you turn into energy you know that's like a big thing you know you take something you're transforming it and I remember like the way the reb was speaking about it you could feel it happening for me now you could say this is all fantasy and so on but I didn't feel it that way I felt like it was a real that was me was an experience otherworldly experience and then you had to re-enter into a a dark corrupt world that that's another challenge And uh and as I said multi many on many many levels. I remember times when we when would come in they sang uh they sing or other certain you just felt you know you ever see the videos when the walks out like parade they sing an you know it gives you like a shiver like your spine you know you feel like it's a different you know the reb walking with that regal mus look and an you know and times by fab when the reb was very emotional about golas or sort was it was life. I I there's no real I don't have you know I I don't want to limit it to a an an intellectual um experience. It was a human full human experience and in many ways it was like like love in a way. I mean in a kadushik way you know like love love of you feel love of God you feel a love of people you just feel an ems and then the sad part is when you come back to your reality and it's so different and I'm just giving you a little taste of experience. >> Okay. So now when I I just have to add that now when I do my work I write or teach I try to capture that feeling and convey it. Yeah I'm not saying you always do it well you can always do it successfully but I think that is cuz if you can give people the thing that transformed you then that's like the ultimate to me that's like the repaying the debt that what you receive you're able to share and I really believe that that when people like teach especially the reb it's not just teaching facts you're teaching life and you want people to feel it's like almost like anyone that's a parent it's not you're just teaching your children do this do that you're teaching them uh how to live life >> how to be a mench you know >> so you when you started writing the so I understand you were helping then eventually you started basically transcribing the entire yourself so what happened over there >> okay so I already shared shared how I started getting involved hang out I started looking over the uh at the end of less early me David felma moves to Israel so my official first I wrote was shabas kanak shabas paramikates tshin me the end of basically 79 1979 obviously I remember it very well because I worked very hard it and the Reb gave me a good cababalon. He probably at least five six pages of that I have just from that questions made then on made a on some reason I felt that really like later on which made it very hard for me because it was very hard for to write but that was the first one that I wrote and I remember the first night after I came home. I had a typewriter. There's only typewriters. Then I started typing and I tell you uh the first page, you know, it didn't work. I took the pager page and crumpled it up, threw in the garbage can, probably 30 pages like that. And it was already 4:00 in the morning. And I said, I I maybe I took upon myself a job I can't do. This is ridiculous. I couldn't get by one page, you know. And um [clears throat] my father woke up early. He comes out. He says, "What's bothering you?" I said, "I supposed to write this faban. It's a faban of four hours. I can't even get one one page done." And I was like I really was frantic almost cuz it's like everyone's cuz I I took this and I said maybe I just took I I thought I was overconfident. So my father told me he was a writer. So he said, "You keep doing it. Maybe it'll be another 30 drafts and ultimately you'll get it done and years from now it's still going to be difficult. The only difference is you know you could do it which was Mish the best advice he gave." So by 6:00 in the morning I got one page out and I ended up doing it. Obviously that was my first uh shabas. There was no there was a fab and that's how it started going. >> So what was the what was the process? How did it work in how >> so that's the s now remember we had to write a faban before the next faban and then had to go out the mail and so on the process was like this the spoke as you know by there's a whole process of which I didn't even get into how you remember I'm not going to go into that right now um but you right away start kazing immediately in your mind right After the Reba finishes the you have to review the whole >> in between. >> Yeah. When they're singing, you're busy thinking. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you make like a mental map of the whole and then there's a process of how you remember and you remember very important rule memory. You don't remember what was said. You remember what you remember that was said. You understand? So you have to constantly make a copy of a copy of a copy in your mind. So by the time Shabas ends depends how many times you reviewed it that's how well you remember it because as every minute passes it starts fading but the more you the more you review it the more you remember >> so you do it in between the >> then I would do it right after the faban as I was walking home and then maybe four times before the was over [clears throat] >> and then then before even at the table when we sat at the table in the later years. >> No, no, even by by by by like the shabas after >> but the mess the fab could go like to land the shabas. >> Oh those you didn't have time. Yeah. But those that you had time. Yeah. >> You did it by by the >> then by Shabas like an hour after Shabas we'd come together by which was downstairs in 770 in the center. There's pictures of it. Rabel would usually be the one that Khazers. Sometimes he'd ask me to kazer and then everybody would pipe in would take around an hour and a half, 2 hours. There was always someone writing notes and we slowly reconstructed everything. Um, and then we had at least a document so there was something to work with. Then I would sometimes remind myself something in the middle of the night. Oh, you know, we forgot this piece or someone would call me and say, "Yeah, you know, I remember this." And then Sunday I spent most of Sunday researching like learning the or >> you didn't do before. >> No, because I didn't know what the Reb would say. No, I [clears throat] did general terms. But now you know what the Reb said. So researching more on what the Reba said. I would research usually till Sunday evening and by Sunday night I started writing the first draft cuz by then I had Did you write notes by Khaz? >> Yes. Yes. Sometimes I wrote or someone else wrote. I had the notes. Um but you had to like you know this talks about yesesh and yes you had to forget everything before you start remembering. So I remember it then everything became one big confused mess. I don't know if you ever wrote anything. There's always confusion before you get clarity and everything got confused. Then you slowly start picking it up. You start saying ah this is the so whatever you heard by the fab was just an initial understanding. Now after research you really start getting to see the real of the Reb and um and that's when I would start writing. So by Monday it took around 2 three days by let's say by Monday morning I slept very little because sleep is not good for memory. Um and by Monday morning I usually had the first and I would give it out to a few people. I'd give it a who at times would review it sometimes he wouldn't and then I would give it to Shamanov um if he was available label all time different people you know typed draft and they would give me back their notes and meanwhile I'd continue writing the next the next uh simultaneously the mym writers this would write the mimer And by Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, depending on the size of the fabang and I usually had the full faban ready, first draft, but then I would take everyone's comments. Sometimes the comments were very aggressive. Some people said you wrote it the wrong way. I don't agree with how you wrote it. Sometimes people did agree. I I remember I had such arguments. He said he thought it was a different approach, you know, because you were not creating Yesh. remembered we didn't have a tape to refer to it was all for memory. So it's possible that somehow some subjectivity based on the >> well what what let's define what subjectivity is. you relying on humans that could be making >> it wasn't negas like a negativity in the sense like that's why I wanted others to comment >> right >> you know for example sometimes people comment and I said yeah you're right >> they they pointed out that you know sometimes I wrote something and when you read it when I read it myself back something's wrong I'm missing you know because it wasn't uh but but a lot of things would become clearer as you wrote because then you suddenly realize that what did the reba actually say here, you know, once you write it out, once you saw, for example, a and you see ah the Reb was using this and then you realize what did the add to it. It's hard to explain without showing you real examples, but it's a real process, a real serious process of a combination of memory, research, and understanding on like >> and average is uh 30 pages, 40 pages, >> much more, >> 50 pages. Noah an average that's pace of speaking every hour of speaking yielded 20 pages double spaced 8 1/2 by 11 pages so 5 hours of speaking is 100 pages an average was 3 4 hours so you're talking about at least 60 pages and we did pretty good almost we almost got almost 100% like in other words we didn't the the memory was so it's a combination of all the things I'll give you an example Um here that first spoke so asked what's okay so theb spoke about it and we remembered then I look in what the said says in but in there's more details and then you realize that added a detail that didn't say in but you don't know that until you look in so you have to combine what state and what you remember understand and then you look at and another duke. It's it's it's it's quite quite complex process and then you get something that's solid. Now sometime says something that doesn't say anywhere. So you have to just reconstruct it correctly. Then there are times that you heard the that we had a question and then I would write right away to the Reb that this is how we understood what you said the said and the Reb would clarify. >> Okay. I want to >> So, so bottom line is by Wednesday we had everything pretty much in place. >> So I have a question for you. What was um what was easier for you to write the before or the second part and everything else? >> It's a good question. There's no rule depending how complex those were. Sometimes a like going back the first was so difficult because the spoke about a very so the Indian was very complicated. Um on the other hand the is easier because it was structured. You had a rashi you knew the rashi that we knew he asked four questions. So it was more structural easier to uh to uh write but it all came down to how complicated the topic was you know how well understood it was um if it was well understood there are times I didn't understand the well till I finished writing then I realized ah that's what he meant you know there's things like that um >> how could you write it if you don't understand >> cuz you write what you heard >> and you try to make a structure so it's like a tape recorder >> yes stickle like That's >> it's a memory. It's not a >> memory, right? And then you start seeing. >> You have to have a good memory to be. >> Yeah. Yeah. Memory was more important than understanding first. For sure. And then comes the understanding part. And then comes questions. That was a very exciting part because once you had questions, you could ask the Reb. But you could only do that after you really about it. You can't just ask the Reb, you know, question. So tell tell me about what was the interaction in the question that the would ask like give me an example or two. >> I'll give I was I was actually going to give this example that I started maybe this is a good time but I'll give another one first an easier one. I'll give you an example. Um it talks about and which is higher and the is the topic the rebba spoke about. So I remember once writes that uh independent what it says in an is always the highest level because we see even the case where let's say that's the example given is eating a meal but let's say a person had a bad dream so for him tinus is because the tinness will like get rid of his bad so is this is higher that tanuk is higher. So says it's a lie that the is higher because the not to eat is stronger than the tanuk to eat but theb said in the lie that is higher. So we asked the how's what it says because the reb quoted the but it seems to have a different conclusion. So the rebb's answer was if you look closely says If if is lower wise you have to say an even if it's not an you want to fast the fact that that the turned it into mean is really ultimately what you want the only difference is that here created the but you still need an so this person has an from not eating that's an example very quick example we have hundreds like this probably hundreds of such questions sometimes there are more complicated I'll give you another example about Um the Reb said is about to come and now it's going to be only no more wars and no more deaths. That's the said middle of so I wrote to the on Sunday morning on the ben it says that either 2/3 bes is is third two/3 either two/3 of the world or two/3 of two/3s of the world is going to be destroyed before mashia comes with what the rebba said we always wrote it respectfully and so on and the rebba wrote back to me uh So I knew the has a lot to say on this because he didn't just write an answer. He said he's going to speak. So then yesterday was nobb starts second I knew he was referring to this question and a whole just on this topic. So that's another example and the Reb is basically there was it's already printed today you look it's not a as this whole grew out of a question and there are many there are many that purely came from our questions and many times the Reb said that he's f wants to we should ask so in order that he should answer so the reb's answer was bottom line is that he said the says Why would how could he destroy twothirds of his own creation? So the Reb's answer then was that he's not going to destroy them. it will be so it's like a so that's like called doesn't say it says kan is like b I mean that's it's a whole stop that's some examples there many there many >> what was a story that you >> so this one was already I was going to give a little more controversial one so um briefly the says connection time of Yeshua all the passed away connection to the stalkus of the said but is bunch of so the Reb said something that he never said he said the truth is a generation could have many but it's too too much it's likeish if it's they'll blind us. So that's why you only have oneb. So really many because it's a bigger gill. We always know there you know. So I wrote to the rebs and I quoted the Reb himself said when he asked the that what the time of the sobb said to the rebba said his name his second name he said there said his name is not so I quoted all that and that was that and I wanted to see what the you know the rebba said here he's speaking usually it's the mil you have one you don't have two then I decided [snorts] I'm going to go on the limb I'll take a risk I'll write something that I know I can get a good flick you know a real kaik and I wrote maybe with what the rebb is saying you could be mas what will happen after all the come back so you'll have the who's going to be the so based on what the Reb is saying could be many because the gill will be so big you understand so it's not something uh and I knew that this can be very the may not like what I'm writing and uh >> it was a question >> yeah maybe so the Reb responds he didn't answer the rest of the questions he just circled this and he wrote to me You understand? [clears throat] In which sniff in which uh branch of tempim are they learning and and being trying to figure out these very sensitive matters like this in other words where who is maku basically you know what do you ask me such question so I don't have any regrets asking you know getting a like that from the iss that I is So I felt >> there were other that the man got about the >> Yeah, we got plenty of >> about the sometimes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes m this Yeah, there's a lot of bad critique. I have a lot of stories like that. >> But thank God I got the people got a lot worse than me. >> How did you take those those things? I always took it professionally that the Reb is a ultimate surgeon and he's teaching you precision and you know because at least for me many of the mistakes were not stupid mistakes they were like doc like you know things that were subtle that caught it I remember that once wrote to me that I missed a whole you know what it was there's a story if you have two things to do how do you know which is the right thing to do so One way is by knowing what where you have most resistance. The thing you don't want to do is the thing you need to do. So we wrote it. We wrote the story. The Reb writes that we missed the now you tell me which so the says if you have like you know person that is carrying a heavy weight and he's your and there's a s you have to help your s first. So by the reb that's a to the story the thing you don't want to do stand by the reb that was a m >> okay but when you're on the reb's level so no I did not feel bad I was we learned I learned I saw it as a learning experience from the rebba I learned how to write much more precise I learned dika things that I I for me it was training it's like imagine a master uh musician and he's showing you that you're playing the piano not so perfect That to me was I mean I'm just I'm just giving an example. I learned I you learned from the best. I I saw the rebas the best you know by all means I I was I embraced the Reb's critique very positive. There were guys that had thin skin and I remember there guys that had big egos and they like you know not they were competing with the Reba but they got insulted you know I never got insulted. I saw it always as you know pour it on from my point of view. Okay. So there's a there's many many and answers. Not going to cover all of them. Um in fact we've been printing a lot of them recently. Um what happened late in the later years it changed that started to be ma every and every shabas and then the whole the whole sign of the changed also it's much shorter and the classical has stopped what happened then well um a few things I think first of all we got better and better the better we got the less cigars that have been needed to be honest because like Rabiel told me many times in his early years the Reb would sometimes rewrite not because the Reb because it wasn't written well so we learned a lot I learned a lot from the Reb himself so we got better also technology the Reb recognized that for example the is being printed in Kabad or Algam and faxes and other technology so I think the Reb saw that as an opportunity to get more of his words out there. So I think the rebba put more time into basically the end of me the rebba started being ma more often by it came to me and maybe and also the court case and the you know usually so the rebba started being every week basically from end of early every almost >> so in the beginning it was more of like but then it changed to more like aut yeah is built mug. Um then started being ma these built mugs. So we started preparing them in a in a much more thorough way. >> Why? >> Because is going to be mad. >> So it's not just a transcript. >> Yeah. So now you could elaborate more >> saying since the is being Yeah. >> So therefore it it should be reworked a little bit like like look at the >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> And and then we started doing that. So by the time of me came around, we were preparing a lot more knowing the ma. Now if the Reb was not my gear, we wouldn't have printed it. We would go back to the original an could be a little more you know not so everything is spelled out you know in the you can really go much further into it to any topic. >> Okay. So I want to I want to go to Nal and maybe we'll conclude with on the on this over here. So obviously has been it's a whole different thing the Reb has been every week you know the whole thing it's different than there's no shas I mean the shas too but but it's it's a whole it's a different work you're writing something it's a whole process >> um >> and then in there's a there's a the signant of the is very different things are changing the way the reb is speaking and what the reb is speaking about what is something you want to highlight from from that >> first of all where did you hear that new knowledge is so different than non for example >> I don't mean I don't mean non vers I mean later later years >> well let's I have to clarify this after the rebbitson's things change dramatically not right away by the way the first after wasab I wrote that was pretty much a usual mean same structure obviously the spoke about the reb after pes The started shortening like half instead of a going till 6:00 it went till 3:00 or 5:30 3:00 the started cutting out the rash already end of summer after more or less almost everything went the end of the stopped saying my so the whole structure of changed Then and that's one thing. Secondly, the Reb started combining that like everything was like connected and gul became very much as the time passed like by by time meas and noon especially noon everything was gash and it became harder to uh discern identify the theme like in the early before it was very clear that everyone was speaking about or going to speak about whatever here he started mixing shu and the para and this. So the sikas were a lot harder to um to write because we had to like find what is the central theme and the reb would always give us a structure. Now we had to create a structure but the reb it was almost like everything was like it was combining everything. So it was the reb style of speaking changed and um but we still used the same method of writing like we always did over the years cuz we that was the only model we knew. So the only the real changes I would say is not so much in the structure of the themes. Gul became very very dominant like you'll see gulas everywhere like the devil will say right away that was not the style before. So gula became that was a a main difference in my mind and and harder to to identify the themes but since the reb was mia we could ask the and that's how we got through it but it was a lot harder work it was a lot more difficult does that make sense >> that was the main changes um you know I mean I'm not getting now into about about you know what that means that's already another discussion but all of it became came also a sense of urgency. You could sense that the reb was speaking much more there was that language was much stronger. So maybe we'll conclude with this the you know the the is the last we have from the >> Yeah. >> So in a way from the in the last year >> Yeah. >> So what is that message? What is the overarching message that the Reb is giving to in the >> Okay, good. Very good. It's a good place to sum up. I I think I'll answer it a little more broadly being that I started writing, you know, connected to everything we've been talking. I started writing tim President Reagan became president tim 1980 that ever started very strongly shr in 1980. So I see many many ways my career in the Sikh is very much aligned with like the so-called last the last kuf that is that you know the reb was building up like the says but then you don't hear a lot more in the earlier you know those and then the built and then the houses but the starts you know a little more forward starts you know we went from sometimes the way put it so you saw that clearly I saw it every day in this you know every all the I saw this the shift that was becoming much more global more universal you know you know so when it came and the started much stronger about that puts the belt is great. I'm I'm using all the two everything all that wasn't like an out of the blue. It was a continuation of like okay we're coming now to the end of the story. So the Reb gave us the final marching orders like like Rabbi Kyanski said and many of that now we we're ready to do the final push. So I think it's what the said that we have to do everything possible to bring the gula. Now it was always but it was more through and more through now it became like you know we got to teach the world the real thing that this is it and started with um the yalmani and all that it was all if you look think about it was all a logical process people make a big mistake they say the was I don't want to even use the word but like you know the after the was more desperate I don't see it all that way. The was very methodical. It was a stages. So whatever left us with, you know, I don't know Gimlas, I'm not trying to explain Gimmel Thomas. He left us with the final marching orders that the world is ready to hear the real thing. You know, teach them realism. Look now with AI and everything. It's obvious the world is ready. the things that you know the Reb was ahead of his time and said it already. I saw Mess and through NB and that lens that the Reb was seeing that this was now coming to like like the the eruption is about to happen and that was the tone of the very urgent and so on. So we got a job to do. That's what the left us. >> The fact that it didn't happen then is our fault is our fault. >> No. Yeah. It means we didn't do what we had to do. But but you know what we could also say why did the have a little on us you know we're simple people just bring the gula already but >> yeah I I don't like to say so anyone I I I will say that I did not do everything I have to do you have to answer that question yourself audience should answer that question you have to look at yourself you can't stop pointing fingers at others that's not the dak everyone's going to say it's your fault you didn't do on this you know like the guys that are they say I'm not if you Mus there'd be no there'd be peace. I said what does that mean? He has to agree with you. Yeah, if he agrees with me there won't be a mus. Of course I understand. My point is that we have to look at ourselves and the words are there. He says makes the it's to me it's all about a revolution of your you know should reach 8 billion people not just a billion. >> How's that between the and alchemy? >> Yeah exactly for life center. Yeah life center. >> Yeah Jacobson. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> [applause] >> Is that good? You have a show for 3:00 in the morning. >> 3:00 in the morning. Okay. Very good.