Ep. 37: When The Rebbe Explained What the Word ‘Frum’ Means with Rabbi Levi Garelik

Now I have I have a few smikas but but this is my sm where she writes I was only three years old at the time. Okay [music] and her signature I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid our vibrant connection with the reb and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Today's episode is brought to you by Ken Hakamish Kameish is a fund that was started by the right after in honor of the stay tuned later in the episode to hear more about it. Okay, how are you? >> It's a pleasure to be here. >> Okay, and today is a special podcast that we're doing. Um, it's not visible in the uh on the screen on the cameras, but we have an audience of many many Bahim that are watching uh us have this conversation as part of the so it's a special special edition for being here. >> My pleasure. Okay. So I want to begin and ask you um many people have their own story but then there's a story that comes before then. So you have illustrious fathers, illustrious zedas and maybe we uh can begin that way. I was thinking perhaps we should start with talking about your famed zeta. How does that sound to you? >> Excellent. There's plenty what to say about my zedi. Um just by introduction I have two zadis my father's father and my mother's father. So you're starting with my mother's father but my other zadei was also gelik and they both learned in labavich. My zed ended up later in Israel which we'll talk about later if you want to. My zed shalom is as follows. His Zeda Shalom Zeda, his name was Zusha Posner. My uncle Zusha Posner is named after his zeda. His Zeda and his brother came to America in the 1880s. Their son, a whole bunch of sons, but one of them, his name was Zalman was a Ber and he saw that here in America he cannot be from he went back to Russia. As a matter of fact, Rabbi Jacobson Jacobson in his ziki writes the history of in America. He remembered my Zadi Zeta from he was actually in Rland. He was a he was a uh shoe maker. He came to America and he made a shoe called the Posn shoe. I have one at home uh an original box called the posn from 1920 1930 and Rab Jacobson writes in but his son went back to Russia. He went back to Russia and Mazi was born to Sam base same year as the yearb when he was about 17 18. His father Robert Jacobson actually has the story in his uh he was doing some business with some go and they got into fight with the yidden and they took the yidden and put them on a raft on the river. They blew it up and everybody sunk. My Zi was then a ber and he waited a few days by the water when the bodies came up. So then he recognized his father, put him on his shoulder and he brought him the cave. >> Earlier in this just introduction, I was once walking with my in front of 770 right after my inh. And all of a sudden he stopped by 770 and he looks up at the building and I saw he like went somewhere else and he tells me ley was after PES this week is my it's 70 years from my means accepted >> labavich was hast hundreds and thousands of bhan came to labavich they weren't accepted Most boys who came that wanted to be accepted in labage were not accepted. Marose came in tishati came and his whole group that came with him nobody was accepted. He was the only one by Masla. No long story but Madi had haram Masl. He came the last Zman of Loavic the last semester because the Reb Rashab left Lavich in Tesh inv right after T the so to Ainh was the last semester. Mazed was born summer B right after his barit was inh. And he did not need to go through a test in order to get his niscabel. Why? Because he came from a city called Ramen in Ramen. The maspia was raichid. Anybody who came with the masid didn't have to go through test automatically. So was in Loavich in Teshin. Then later was the story with his father toes pay four years later when the reba passed away. He wasn't there in Rasttov. He was in Rasto for Tish. He told me a lot of stories about that tish. Just an interesting point. He told me that sukus he saw himself the was sitting in the sukbi always said he didn't say which he was talking the mazi was by he always said there's a very famous story that I'm going to get back to the story of the in a minute that he used to say back and forth The story is in Loavage, the way it used to work is the Reb set a mimer every Friday night and the mimer used to be Friday night before Kavno after Kadesh. They would stop they would go to the center of the room. There used to be a a me four uh tables and uh there were two chairs in on the two sides and inside the rebab would sit in one the in the other and the rebab would look into the eyes of the KB during the whole m that's how the old m went for about 45 minutes to an hour but one time so usually used to come first and then the would come but one time somehow the rebab came and the fid wasn't there yet. So was waiting till the came. So that's how used to say the story you know anyways Mazi used to say always. So inh he came to he was accepted in labage to pay he was there for for and >> you're saying a story in the so in the he says he says place he says they also had on the place of the absolutely no rain anyways that was till then pay bay he was in pave he went to jail if you want I'll tell you later the story >> he married? >> No, not yet. He became a tough pi 1915. Actually, my Bobby was at Satling, famously at Satellin, a sister. Her other sister was already married to Fagen, the secretary of the Fedbe. Unfortunately, they all got killed by the Nazis. But uh my was a inh his Bobb's brother had already moved to Israel. He was one of the khalim one of the pioneers that you know they were starting the whole Zionist movement. So he was able to send a a visa for my bab and her mother to get out from Russia and they in turn sent to my Zadia visa to come to and that's how they all ended up in my parents my grandparents got married in >> but what was the mat then wereim trying to leave Russia or they were supposed to stay like what what was the whole situation then >> all the time tried to get out of Russia from the early time of the Rashab Russia was not a good place for it yet. >> So the fact that that the remained and all the remained was not necessarily by choice. Is that what you're saying? >> It wasn't by choice. No. Uh the rebab had an idea of go don't we know we have only one picture of the rebab passport >> because it was a passport because he was planning to go to but then it changed and if the fid would have been able to leave Russia earlier I'm sure he would have done it earlier. Yanet Titan you couldn't there was no way you could leave Russia. was it was a gunf to had to to leave that's why so some the did not let them leave the also till till the 70s ' 80s there were many people that didn't let them leave >> there there was a point that there were encouraged to stay >> some >> because there were other yidden that left right when communism started just just they just left >> those who were able to left the problem was everybody was afraid to leave because you're going to come to America you're going to become fry you're going to come to you're going to become fry My great uncle this great my grandmother's brother at fall I remember him very well I met him in when he came to he fasted on the boat going to for eight days almost fast he had potatoes whatever but the imamish he came to they told him you want to join theim you want to become part of the pioneers you have to take your fillin and throw them in the sea by the time they came to my bub and maza he was totally fry and my's mother her her son she begged him come to shul he walked halfway and he went back home now it was everybody knew you leave Russia is here in America you know yet thousands of thousands of shs >> in Maplewood the shul is whatever and is a reformed temple an lubit That's it. Here in America, everybody became it was over. There was no way. My el went back to Russia as a buck, >> right? >> Anyways, so then my ZA had in America grandparents, uncles, and aunts while he was in. And he sent a letter to his Zadi if he could send them an affidavit. An affidavit is that why should America allow refugees? They have somebody in America who's going to take care of them. So then they they could let them there's many letters for example the Reb's father the worked at the shul in Boston sent an invitation to the this would be able to bring him to America la didn't work out but that that's what an affidavit is that someone in America is taking responsibility for you you're not going to just be on welfare so my zadei zadei wrote to him I'll send you an affidavit only thing is you have to be careful because if you come to America you're going to have to cut two things the board and the suk here in America it's not going to work so my zi decided they're staying in staying in they were poor whatever but they're staying in came so was so he was one of the people who was during that trip so he asked me asked for for some kind of a job that he was going to get and the told Zi show him do for in America. Nope. The Reb said do for in America. So he already right away sent a letter to his and he said I'm planning to come anyway. So send me an affidavit. So if went was in town of by by t was very here in America the famous t mazi and Bobby got there around kisliff time >> to New York >> to New York New Jersey New Jersey the way my Bobby would say got to New Jersey and midol it only took a few weeks and my Bobby saw she had two sons at that time my uncle Zalman Zalman Pner and label they were there they were they're the Palestinians because Israel then was called Palestine. So in their passport it says they were born in Palestine. We used to call them the PLO's. Anyways, so they they were about four years old, four and three or five and four, you know, when they came to America. And my Bobby saw there's no way that they could become they could stay now. So she wanted to go and ask for fromb. The problem was that in that trip the did not give to women. >> The trip in America >> when that trip that first came he only gave you >> the whole year. >> The whole year only if it was a group of women. >> Yeah. the nob the curtain >> I don't the other I know I know lake was by the was with his grandmother >> yeah so there were definitely stories but I'm not sure exactly how >> but one thing is sure when the fidba was here in America only groups her masle was that who was the secretary with the feed kache her brother-in-law he came to America so she told katcha if you see any possibility that I could go into the feed let me know. Couple days later, she gets a call. Those days the telephones were these, you know, like that. People don't know what telephones are anymore. And uh and calls her says, "Come right now." I think that the then stayed, believe it or not, on Brooklyn Avenue in >> we recently wrote in the deer an article about it. >> Oh, yeah. >> There was a house. There's a special house. I can't remember if it was >> I think it's still there. >> I think it was New York Avenue. >> I'm not sure. I know it was right. There were two houses, >> but at that time 770 was still a grass. There was no building there yet. The building was built in 1933. That's 4 years later. >> Anyways, so she right away came running from New Jersey with the two kids. She came to the house where the KB was and she waited. All of a sudden, the door opened up's room. Kacha came out and he saw my B. So what did he do? Wugarid. He walked away and he left the door open. Didn't say anything. My grandma didn't ask any questions. She took the kids. She charged into the room of the and she told the why didn't your grandfather >> My grandfather was at the >> So he was at the also the come made we had a cousin that helped out whatever but he was at the she couldn't wait. She couldn't call him and does it just wouldn't work. And so your grandmother asked my grandmother told the how are we going to raise her Jewish kids. She says the was sitting without histo like very very with a big smile and when she said that the said in the family this different versions but I this I can only tell you the way I heard it from my Bobby. The Reb said you're going to raise over here very nice, beautiful, Jewish children. She heard that she ran out again. She didn't want to get anything different and she left it at that. So this was in by the way there was a journal called the hatim. The atmium came out in Poland in those 10 years that the vid was in Poland between 19 uh between tristadik and tough shin those 10 years about seven or eight came out one the one at the end didn't come out because of the war. So if you look then they printed them all in one book. If you look on page 500 you'll see a from Shalom PNER Lindon New Jersey. I found by my Zadi an invitation to Rabbit Shane the Rabbitson's younger sister with Tendal two invitations one the regular invitation and one an invitation ane in Lynon in Lynon New Jersey. >> Oh so was sending to America. >> Sending to American invitations. So the regular invitation is the regular and the other one is obviously to those who can't come they should in their place say just I have a daughter her name is Shaina after she married a menal so I framed these two things and I gave it to them as a present the um >> which is something that I want to talk to you about later you're naming your kids for the deb okay we'll get there >> plenty what to talk >> okay >> yeah anyway so and my my Bobby and Zadi were here in America when the freed came to American tough shin right 10 years later my Bobby and Zadi at that time were living in Chicago because my didn't have paros and rabbi Jacobson Jacobson found the mijab to be a shamish in the famous bon in Chicago came off the boat sort of the most of lobavich I'm talking about the the money of labavich at that time was in Chicago there was even a have a minute that Vid G was going to move to Chicago, not even to not even to Brooklyn to him to New York. But anyways, so a few of the people of Chicago went to greet the freed my didn't have a penny to his name. He didn't have enough money to buy a train ticket to go to New York to see the Reb. So he told the guys, whoever was going then, do me a favor. When you see the Reb, give him regards from Shalom Posn. When they approached the and told him that they have regards from PNER them. So said shalom sher that was is the throughout those few months my Bobby and my Zadi collected penny to penny to penny to penny to penny. So in the summer my zadei was able to go and visit the fidicibe in New York. Two years later, tough bays the fidici went to a visit to Chicago is a story for itself. My Bobby cooked for the fida when he was there for almost a week and we have today actually the silverware that the fid used and we use it by all the weddings. That's what they use for the plus because she cooked the frib's rabbit sent my Bobby a present a set of 12 uh you know silverware spoons forks everything so this was all div but that was a touch base so Madi was in Chicago so when he went to he told that he has now also an option to buy a hardware store he wants a him and somebody So told him show them do in Pittsburgh and yes you go to Pittsburgh and open up Aisha. >> How old was he? >> Made was born tough summer bay and this was tough in bay. So 50. >> So 50 40. >> So at 40 years old is telling him okay abandon all these panosa things go up. >> Go to pitts. Now interesting is I was always under depression that he went that summer in Topshin Bay a couple years ago. I went to Chicago to speak and I said this story and I actually I found in the stuff something very interesting. I found a sha that the feed sent to the benedul for that Russia when he came to America and it still had the scotch tapes you know that was hanging on the wall. I guess my zade took it off after y and he put it away. So mamish original. I went to speak in Chicago for you to kiss. So I figured let me bring them a nice present and I took that and I put in a nice frame when I came to speak. So I came in with this thing. Nobody knew what's inside and uh I told him know it's Rashashana, right? Rashid, right? So we got to do something about so I invited Rabbi Herz the in Chicago the of the community that he should open up and uh everybody was standing there anyways la and he saw it so he read it out loud you know it's and then he got very emotional and I asked him why you so emotional and public and he said because Chicago had hundreds and thousands of letters from the feed everything's gone And no one knows where anything is. And here finally they have an original eting there in the lobby where it says that this was found in Rab Pner's archive. Who was the shamish of anyways? So tshin bay. Oh so then when I spoke I told him the story and I was sure that it was that summer tshin bay afterwards came to me Mr. Kasovski Allam just passed away not too long ago and he told me Rabbi Gerelik he went to Tshin Giml 1943. So I said how do you know? He says how do I know? I was in his class then he was my teacher and what happened was the Fed told to go to Pittsburgh. This was invat and talking and and uh and the teacher who taught that class right after Pesak decided he's not continuing to teach them anymore. After Pes it's only one month there's no yeshiv he wasn't he was a and mazed couldn't watch how all these kids are going to be without a teacher. So he stayed and taught them for a year and a half. >> Which school is this? one of the program >> local schools there that was connected to somehow >> so he stayed for another year and he went in touching gimmel in the summer tak started looking at the letters I see tak that he went to touching gimmel >> anyways he took a year before he left he resigned from the shul because the rabbi told him the feed told him go to so he went over to the president of the shul and he told him that he's resigning she said what's wrong what she says no I'm going to Pittsburgh he says why are you going to Pittsburgh he says I'm going towards Pittsburgh to open up a yeshiva So the president told him like this when David Van grows Pittsburgh yeshiva when his grass will grow that's when there'll be yeshiv in Pittsburgh that was very encouraging you know for my besides all the other problems that there were those days anyway he went to uh Pittsburgh my puppy and they start actually the yeshiva started a year before that a mutine who later was in the Bronx he was a bucker still he went to Pittsburgh first those days it was musical chairs you the going from one place to another for a few years and >> you mentioned I thinker was ra was but liber musical chairs >> no but I'm saying groner who later went to Australia he was in different places in the United States hersel fogam was different places the way hersel fogman would put it rabbi hersel rabbi hershel fogman Harry Fogman he was in worester but he was in different places first He says until it was musical chairs the music stopped wherever you were that's it anybody wanted to go further he used to come to the and say you know used to send me here he says sent you where you are now you want to change go to don't come to me >> that's what the says that all the should continue I mean he said it publicly that >> that's it no musical chairs it was over [snorts] anyways So Maza opened up the yeshiva. He continued they started a little bit but then of course took it to the next level when the first and of course my Bobby and Zadi told that it's very very hard everything said this again I'm telling you the way my Bobby told me the story said you should plow in seed And I will shed tears that it should grow once the said that you know there was so this was my Bobby and Zadi. Then came top and of course my Zadei came to New York. She found out that my my mother was a little girl and she told me she remembers howd you know she was crying like crazy. He came to New York. He came with her next morning and he was one of the people who had the to make of the and he did he got the left hand you know the hand that the used to put on film. He got the left hand. Um uh that was basically and then the rest is history. Rest >> is history. >> Okay. So before we go to your parents, we have to go to other >> Yeah, there's still plenty to talk about shalom. I mean I have a lot of other stories but this is just immob was out there by the first of all the reb after 1978 the reb stopped going out to the reb used to till the heart attack the used to go out to every single used to come in front of70 the used to come in front of 70 Raona would go into the rabbi to the lava is here the funeral. The Rebu would come out. The Rebu would walk on the sidewalk, cross the street, go till the fire hydrant, it's that fire hydrant still there in front of now it's in front of the museum. Those days it was front of 796. The Rebu would stop the cars would go. Once all the cars were gone, the Rebu would come back, wash his hands outside and then go inside, go into the Zal. do it just for historical purposes. The way it used to work is you walk into the zal on the right side there's a table with benches and over here there's a table of benches we used to take away that table on the right side the one under the clock take away the table the place was emptied it was just a bench and the reb would come in it would sit down on the beginning of the bench his hands were wet because you don't dry your hands after and the reb would say yes I guess it was said that's the meaning and the reb would move from one place to another on the bench because you're supposed to move seven times I saw it dozens of times and the Reb would you know move it. So, uh, but the Reb would stand by the fire hygien for 10 minutes max. You know, once all the cars are gone, >> that's a long time. 10 minutes. >> I said maximum. >> Yeah. >> Less the cars to go by it took 2 minutes, another two minutes, whatever. >> But my Bobby, I didn't see it cuz I went to the Leviath till the airport. The was out there for over a half hour or 40 minutes or something. There's a video. >> The video of the whole thing. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's amazing. And you can see how Robert Groner goes over to the Rev and Rebe continues looking and everybody wanted to know why. I am not going to tell you why because I have no idea why and nobody knows why. But one thing that I will say is tiny after this was somewhere three four months later I don't know if it was in s the reb wanted my uncle label posner which also just passed away unfortunately to go to an to California which he did as a and that's why he wasn't here because he was in California he got married two weeks later that was the first one that was by But he wanted to come for your >> the first one after the >> afteras afteras >> I think the didn't do it the whole didn't do it before the was but another para so and the reb wanted my those days to go from New York to California it was a story you know and she asked the reb and when the reb said that he would like label to do that my reply to the was haste in the summer. Now she had I found a letter from to my parents that the Reb sent up a bottle of wine to the ladies shower then a few minutes later sent out a second bottle for all the ladies there only zank and jealousy. Okay. But that was my Bubby [snorts] was special lady. Anyway, so that's uh my Bobby and Zadei. You know, everybody heard of Dr. Tski. Dr. Tski was in Pittsburgh and he was he was very close to if you want later I'll tell you a whole story. But uh was he learned to lab and by him he never said never always the he told me once who are you named after I was trying to figure out the asked me since when the what was the occasion I figured out it was that asked him that [laughter] >> but he told me >> okay anyways >> didn't do that. >> What >> was and that's it. Never never did he say or you know garnished straight. One of the integral components of being aid are theim and whether it's orim these days give us an opportunity to connect with ourim to connect with each other and be better. What is the story behind each of these days? [music] How did the rabbi commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, [music] and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much much more are answered [music] in the new set recently published by Dher. Our days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have the set. Go to.org/ org/our days. Order your set today and start living with my his family was basically lobers because I think that his father was even his family was >> nope >> they weren't that's how he ended up etc. No, the posers. No, they all came to America. >> So, >> there's even that there's brother and somebody asked Mazdi that. So, Mazdi was always, you know, they always lived with the future, not with the past. If you want, I'll tell you later a whole interesting story about that. And we asked him once is it true that we are any he said the man of like but he didn't deny it and he didn't uh there was a but I'm not sure. >> Okay. Anyways yeah he was all the brothers were he actually was he was the youngest the youngest of the boys and he ended up in labage because of his older brothers. One of them was aer was a sh for the I mean yeah they were all and if I'm not mistaken his father was and we're working now on the whole family history so I'm going to get the exact details but anyways so my he learned to labavage now after he got married he moved to Crimea now Ukraine Crimea Tutta now Crimea was full of yidden simple all those places that I think that the the the names on the train stations were written in lash kadesh with the olive base, you know, the transliteration and he would go from Shabas till Friday around the littleet teach the kids, you know, do all kinds of stuff paid. I think it was it was before my father was born for sure. was still time to feed. He had my my Bobby my father's mother she was Arilin in of the vil gun >> cousin of the uh former president >> second cousins when when they came to rush to Israel they second cousins the same family so the when he uh he he had brothersin-law who were very wealthy they weren't but they weren't you know they weren't uh they weren't fine you know and they decided they're going to sell everything. Get a few pieces of gold, put it into their leave Russia and and Maza said he's not going to until they were going to decided to go to Israel. Those days there was a whole big tona to go to Israel. You know the Zionists were starting and because Russia was bad as we said before Russia was a tough place. So they decided they're going to go to Israel. So Mazdi said no he has to first ask the freed can't he was there by the way in the freed was in the know the whole story was there in the train station the at that time my father had two older sisters Pam and Zalmanov they were let's say five and four little So asked Maza, what did the kids say about going to Mazda said actually when he asks the kids do they want to go to the eld idea what is like you know behind Pluto okay >> Pluto's not a planet anymore >> right is but is he still there um so the elder is evil gain the elder one says she wants to the the little one a fouryear-old three four year old whatever she was like whenever you say they were going I don't want that's what he told so said you have to listen to what little kids say years later after the ever left was Andy he was arrested I don't know how many times all the Russian lobavichi kids knew if your father walks out of the house with talent film with police that means he's not coming back they all knew that my whenever he used to walk out with the talis with the police he would tell the kids that's what he kept and he has to come back every time he came back. So u and eventually they all left Russia. Of course my Zi had always heard that when they left Russia the family wasn't all united because one son stayed in Russia came out many years later my uncle and my Bobby my father's mother had passed away in Tshin in on the operating table in Kharkov the operator she went bad. So that's why the family decided whoever is in Israel will all have a place inim we'll all be together. So that's the basic story of maz. He came to he was one of the first people to uh settle in. He had a lot of letters from the reban and he never left after that. So he wasn't there by my father's wedding but uh yeah but he was a stownid. Okay. So I want to go to your parents and um so your father first of all you there two different stories your father and your mother. So your father maybe we'll start with your father. Your father was born in Russia >> until a few years ago. No one knew where exactly he was born. He was born in Janoya near >> How old was he when he when they went there? >> Oh no no no no no. >> Go go go. >> After his bar mitzvah he left with everybody with the famous Shalon. And now one sec. Let's just get a little bit of history here. Once there the war broke out, the second world war, the place was going bananas, right? So my father was in al- Mata, there were refugees, they were just running running anyway. So a whole bunch of refugees came to al- Matab where's father was the rabbi's father was so he was there for over a year maybe even two years I don't know he was there for a good while and that's where he met labelaskin who later became the shik in Morocco because they were both two little kids in the in the train station for two weeks till they finally found a place where to stay and from then they were good friends till till the end so um from al- mata then they all revited to tashken to Now what happened was people wanted to leave Russia but it was impossible impossible I think even the the the train system I think was different in Russia the train tracks pushes so people shouldn't be able to run out you know so um when the Nazis came into Poland in 1939 right the Jews in Poland had no clue what the Nazis are planning to do they just knew the Nazis are conquering ing countries, but they didn't know what they're going to do. So, the Yidden were split into basically two camps. Some said the the Nazis are mentioned, you know, some said no and they ran away to Russia. So, those that ran away to Russia, most of them got saved. They ran till Seabir, you know, as far as possible. >> Well, eventually the Nazis went into Russia. So, >> yeah, but they didn't make it all the way down there, >> right? So, they had to they had to go deeper into Russia. >> Sure. So but but most of them got saved. SKov it was hard. It was terrible but but most of them got saved. Those who stayed in Poland all went to the concentration camps. Yandic. Now Stalin for some reason made a very interesting law after the war was over that all those that have a Polish passport could come back from Poland from Russia back to Poland. So what did do? They figured they'll make false Polish passports in the which is a parish for itself. It's a long long story how they >> that's how all the Russia >> right and when you look there's a there's a paper that came out not too long ago that has a list of all the people on that first page of his mother and on that same page is my father my father's family the mam is on the same exact page they were on the same train and there was a whole story with my two aunts how did not want to leave Moscow and go she was afraid and then they went up and they told her she said with them I will go a whole long story >> so was But I sort of go back to Al Mat. Why were Why were Why were they in Almata? Weren't most in in Tashk or >> afterwards was later? >> Yeah. But from Al Mata they went to >> So I remember I once spoke to your father about um things that he remembered from the Reb's fathers. Maybe maybe you can talk about that a little bit. >> My father never saw the Reb's father. >> He said a story about steps. That's how I remember something about steps that he almost saw him. Am I making that up? >> I don't know. the main he never saw that's the fact >> because they were in a different part of town and my was afraid to take my father went a few times he did but my father never saw as a matter of fact when it was 30 years from from the from his he passed away in tin 1944 this was 1974 before my father was and the Reb said then by the all those who were mishamish my father should say with me and my father of course didn't say then the rebb um something happened over there but there was one fabangan where the I don't think I don't know if it was that fabbran or a later one where the reb asked Davidaskin because to stand here on Reb's left andreb's left here to ask my father who was standing in that if he was ever was ever mishameish my father smiled you know he didn't respond because then asked knew so told was a soldier soldier number one >> that's that's your father's signature look >> yeah my father wouldn't answer the My father always if you remind me later I'll tell you a whole saw a video by Dal Reb is asking him questions. He doesn't doesn't say >> my father my father I have a whole story to explain that he never answered a question ask a question it's a question you know the reb doesn't need you to give him information the reb knows information he doesn't need you to whatever anyway so then he told the so the rebba said asked him if he ever poured a cup of tea of course my father didn't answer And the Reb said from still they should sell my father was very close to the Rebana when he was s Russia s pucking my aunts were very close to the >> this is after the stalkus of the father >> yeah after not even in alatan this is already later and they helped her a lot it's a whole long story they helped her a lot so and she sent a beautiful letter to my aunt later years later to there was a time they were running whatever and and she my aunt stood in front of zakhan because the Nazis were shooting And she >> mean the Nazis for sure >> in the in the train station over there epis >> the Nazis >> seemingly the the Germans the it was epistori I'm not exactly sure the details >> this is so this is before though >> later later they go after do you know how many Jews got killed after the war >> by the Nazis >> by the Polish and by the by the so there was they were shooting at them and my aunt stood in front of the rabbit zak to block just in case there does and appreciated that for anyway. So there was one year, believe it or not, Gimmel Gimmel. Yes. 1983bas said that all those were shabish. My father should say and my father didn't because he figured last time was just you know finished the next Shabas next. So the Reb spoke at first s the second the said we have to be mashim we have to fill in what we didn't finish last week the first thing is the summ always when he made a yardite the next shabas he would discuss it maybe once or two times or three times and the spoke for a long at least a half hour 40 minutes on the sem and then the rebba paused and the said and there's another thing that we have to fill in here and the rebba said that uh last week I asked that all those that were mish my father should say there's someone here I'm not going to say his name cuz he's standing right here who did not and that I went in the whole thing yeah he's tak humble this and that and whatever but being that this is something has to do with me with the kibav of my father so therefore it's missed and then the said and if he doesn't think that I mean him is you know and went back to the for another half hour at the the driver turned like that towards my father. So my father said and that was just al mata that was um yeah anyway so so my where we were back to to my father >> I I guess we're talking about now um how they left Russia >> right okay so I said then the Polish passports right so they went out my parents my father went to pocking he was there for a good two years I think >> was also was there too right that's why father didn't see the deb in Paris because My father's she went from pocking to Paris in 1947 and they weren't poking till 1948. >> Mhm. >> So that's why my father didn't go to Paris so didn't see the reb. >> Right. And from parking they went straight to >> No no no no they went to Paris. Sure. >> Oh he learned to >> it wasn't so much learning bino that's what the yeshiva as all the plate they moved they move they come to bino. >> Oh all the plates in Paris moved to that's what happened. There was a hotel called Hotel Mader. That's where all stay all had you all got one room or a half room or whatever and they all stayed in the mad for years. That's why 19 54 the Rebbitson you know the trip to to Paris a secret. >> Why? >> Because the Rebe wanted to have p first firthand information how the plate are doing. >> Nobody there was one person only that knew that she's coming. followansky and he was put in charge >> because he was he was there >> he was there he was in charge he was ink >> dishka so therefore but otherwise nobody knew who the rebbiton is what the reb wanted to have firthand information of what's going on okay anyway so my they were in parking then the >> I think the went with her to the airport I think that's what they say >> say again >> they say that the reb went with her to the airport >> war bun told me himself >> what >> the first year after had to speak for the ladies you know Mr. to give a sh than in Crown Heights. I mean, I still do. And I went over to Rebel, personal friend, and I asked him, "Rabbel, you have to tell me something that you never said yet because I have to speak for the ladies." So he told me that he till now he never wanted to say it, but he's going. And he said that when the Rebbitson went to the airport, they went to the same taxi. He was sitting in the front and the Rebbitz in the back. They came to the airport, he slept the suitcases, he went to the check-in. The Rebbitson were standing over there in the back and he did all the check in all the paperwork. The Rebbitson just came for a moment. Then when the Rebbitson had to leave to go to the plane, the Reb asked at Barl Ununic if there's a porch from where you could see the planes and he said, "Yeah, this is upstairs." So they went up to the porch and they waited until those days we >> before 911 you could go all the way. I was going to say those not even Yeah. before we used to walk to the plane. We used to get like on today only the pressure. >> You mean you mean that you you walk on but I'm saying today you can't even go that far the security. Yeah. >> Those days you soon tell you about my parents wedding the everybody went on the plane and came off you know >> but um so the reban the battle went upstairs on the porch he said and the rebu waited until the plane when the plane took off. So the re was staring. This is uh Yeah. So, Rebbitson went to Paris. She went for about three weeks. >> Sure. There's actually postcards from Italy. She also went to Italy then. >> On the way back? >> No. No. When she went when she was then in Paris, she was also in Italy. >> Mhm. >> Where, what, when, I have no idea. I only saw the postcards. >> And she was by herself the whole time? I don't know. Okay. >> Don't know. Okay. So, uh yeah, getting back to my parents. So, then my father was in Binois. from Bininoa that's where Dishki was sending all types of people. So in 1948 or 49 a big group went to and that's what started Fakabad. It took a while till it became Fakabad. It was Safaria and the next door was and then finally they all settled in Fakabad. This was still in >> and some of the faculty in in Paris went also like Niss stayed and then went Fakabad who was a third or fourth cousin of Maz. He also they all went to Fakabad. They all went to a few stayed back and a few went. Yeah. So my father went to and he learned to move over there in Tel Aviv. He learned by Brook he learned by Yeah. with different people. Now right after it became aua of going to the bin. >> How old is he in B? He turned Bud B. He was 20. >> So it became [clears throat] a tuna that everyone wants to be. >> There were few. >> Who was in charge of bringing that tuna? Where did this come from? >> I I it's seemingly and Brook even to a certain extent he was talking about his cautious you know >> so they they they already raised with this >> yeah yeah yeah they were it was very interesting how how right away already you had to for example big people like zavin was one of the top people in you know he was a roommate to the rebb the asked z when the rebb him. He wasn't yet. He sent him on a on a on a short trip somewhere because wanted to give the a report about the Reb. This is a story that he said on audition many years later in he came to speak about the Reb. So he told him this story. So he says that there was no question. He says but I was more impressed with his shai. He says because we were said because they were traveling the food that they had was from 100% but he saw that the Reb was hesitating because the kay that they had from Natila was episil on the kali. So the Rebi in a very uh you know delicate way didn't eat but not because of the cases of the food because there was a question on the ca and dy this is so people like Zev and they all they wrote a kavis kash is a very very strong so you know to become so uh that's how it happened so few leas managed to go already I think you came 1954. My father had a problem. My father was there was a group which is still around to a certain extent called Yadlaim against the missionaries and my father was one of these guys and >> he was against the missionaries. Those days there were a lot of kids that came from ton >> he was part of the organization. He was working. He wanted one of the volunteers. There was Shan Berich was in charge and and uh >> there people that were involved. >> Yeah, it was big people. Sure. And uh one day see the missionaries they gave presents to the kids bicycles and they gave our guys gave candies. Yeah. >> So one time my father got really angry at one of these priests or whatever they were. My father gave him a zet say as they get the boy. >> So the next day the police came to the put all the boys on a >> lineup >> a lineup. My father used to have a hat and and glasses and no glasses. So he came to the lineup with a casket with glasses. The guy pointed him out in a second. My father ended up in jail with another tobacim. They were in jail for a little while and uh gradu when he came home. So he told his father that I was also in jail because my zeda was in jail. Says yeah been in jail comparing the jails of Israel to the jails in Russia. >> Anyways, but uh so he had a lot of problems in his passport. So it took it took him over two years to be able to get papers to leave Israel. Even after he left he >> I heard a few stories. He went to >> he was in London for a half a year. >> And didn't he go is this is this a true story? He went to Benon's house. >> Not to his house. I sent him a letter. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. is there's a few letters I have a few letters that he said I got it from the archives of the government in Israel to been to to a few people that he had to write letters and explain >> he was working very hard and and getting >> he told me and and the truth is there were some bim the reason why they didn't go to the deb at that time was because they knew they have to waste a year to be able to push it put together the paperwork and they said that's not how you go to the reb you don't waste a year of yeshiva that was the >> debate the the debate >> there was sort of the But uh yeah so po my father finally just forant my father the first letter that he got from the okay he got a letter you know because he's asking about coming to America [clears throat] couple of months ago I got a hold of a letter from the last line of it there it says that I'm attaching here a letter for my father and you'll give it to him and explain to you'll add whatever needs to be added. So that first letter that my father got he got it through so was his mashia I mean to the extent that the rebba sent him the letter through so was a big uh big effect on him anyway so then he came finally came to the This was the same month that the Rebu was sending the famous story >> I think was >> okay >> well could check whenever that was >> check the records okay >> okay >> basically there was some fedí that came and they made this pogramic fakabad with the five boys and got killed so the reb in the summer he sent 12 15 buck to represent him. So this was in that uh that month and uh so then he was in 770 for a good two years. Then he became a machia in Newark. Newark is now is Marstown but before they were in Newark was Mashpia in Newark and then put him became a host. bring that day. got an answer >> before the >> what? >> By the >> by the Reb gave him a piece of cake and to my Z >> and that was the >> it was in the morning the Reb already uh sent out you know come put him >> so before you move on I have a question about your father um someone actually asked me recently I hope he doesn't mind that I'm sharing I'm not going to share with his name but he he's been listening to some of the interviews that I've been doing and he he didn't go to this this fellow. So he asked me he keeps on hearing about everyone talks about so much. It's like uh what is it? What is it that that was the question that he asked me >> to in one sentence my father was a person who lived reb 247 no gimmicks no garnished straight reb was in Italy there's Italy there's my father he's there because the Reb sent him and there was nothing that he did before he thought what would the Reb want me to do in this case and he was always right I'll tell you a story the first few years my father got letters from the rabbi galore every two weeks every two weeks he got a These were responses. >> Responses to questions to this that from which all the letters was. >> So your father did write. >> My father wrote. Yeah. Sure. My father wrote. >> You said before he didn't speak but he did write. >> Yeah. Writing. Yes. He always write. Yeah. Wrote the always wanted. Not only that if if he did imagine was one the day after day the sent three weeks I didn't get any the has plenty what to do. Yeah. It's three underline three times. That doesn't make sense. My father tried to write to the because the person kept on always I have a whole bunch of letters where the Reb is complaining why there's no letters. So I don't know if it was about 10 years into the told him when he used to come every year for it's so another par and the told him till when will I have to carry you around like a child in the arms and my brother says the went like this and the Reb said inadab think inabad and you'll be to my to my intent my my intentions I again not because it's my father any time that we did something and I remember many times there was a question to do it like this or do it like that and he would say I think maybe it should be done like that he was always right always there were times that there was no time to ask that. There were certain big things in Italy and I remember my father had to make a decisions. He was always right. Always. But it and I I remember sometimes he had to go to a big meeting, you know, with big people, government people or even in the community. He would sit up a whole night with the onion papers in other onion papers. A whole night go and from there go to the he was in the and that's how he went. And >> that's how he prepared. >> That's how he prepared. And he was always successful always. No matter who he met, if he in his later years finally, you know, we got to be with Europe and with the head of the European Unions. My father used to go to these meetings and everybody was sitting around the table, you know, and everybody know my father. My father once in a while would you know and then he would turn around to Mcken, you know, do we still have to sit here? You know, the world didn't exist to him. It was only and that's it. you know, the rest is uh >> we have, >> you know, we're always looking, myself included, for ways to stay and be connected to the and not just anyway, but something tangible. The way to do it, especially around is a little bit of the background, which is the is a fund that was opened by the immediately after the passing of the during the Shiva fact it's the only corporation that the Reb himself opened and the idea is really for communal needs that relate to women women's education women that are struggling financially and the general welfare of women and girls and here's the interesting part the Rebik gave instructions how how to give rabbi said to give in increments of 470 which is the gamat of theson's name whether it's $4.7 70, $47,470, or 4,700. Giving in these increments is how the Reb directed us to support this fund and honor the Rebbitson. This past year, Kamish [music] gave out over $1 million to Kala, to women and girls programs, and to McVice. To me, when we do this, we're not just donating. We're fulfilling a specific request that Reba made. We are connecting ourselves to the rabb and the rabbit. I will be donating to [music] this and you can too at karenhamesh.org. That's k e r e n [music] h a c h o m.org. Okay. So, back to when he's a bak. I mean, you you got an engagement already. So, first of all, there's two things. Number one, I'm mixing two things. Maybe I shouldn't. But first of all, I mean there's so much that your father received from the rabbis. I'm interested to know if that was uh like when it became that was before. But my second part is that in general the connection that the rebba had with the bakim and the yuds was like a very special deep and open I mean meaning meaning there's many bakim or a lot of the bakim that had that that connection to the rebba. So yeah it's not a I don't know if that's my question or that's I'm segueing into that discussion with you. I don't know if my father as a ber had more cure of him than others. The Reb definitely saw in this guy Emkite, you know, that to him the Reb is everything that for sure. And I guess that the putting that together with the fact that they were the first ones to go overseas, there's another very important element here to realize. My father went on a typus that nobody else did in the next 60 years. My father was sent as a RV of a community. In other words, the Reb wasn't sending someone to open up a base Kabad and expand and conquer the world. The Reb sent him as you're taking a in 770 learn from the taking him and you're sending him to become from Balabatim. Okay. I don't know if anybody could understand the oxymoron here. Okay. And even in the first year saw that so first of all the should do something like that that was very out of the ordinary take up and send him. Now did the rebb did tell my father to make sure to get etc. You know >> this is for the or before? >> It was both. >> So after >> both. Yeah. Maybe even before the kass after the kass but uh there was a ro in in Newark his name was arav pitz he was a tom actually from before before >> from >> yeah yeah fromk I think it was yeah he's in the seat >> but his daughter actually worked the grits for a while and uh she told me when she was a little girl that her father came from Newark to my parents with her father because my father was very close to him Newarka and um and the Reb sent him to be in a place and from that to build the misus and that's what happened. So the whole was a different type of it's not the sent you know to this city going go and start opening up a school and yet no went to a established community put him into not before that uh there's a whole story how that happened but uh I think that that's the and the main thing is my father no matter how many years he was in Italy He always ded he always continued learning my learned a lot of nigler too of course no question he had a lot of shas that he used to get from and you would never think that he left 770 infal came he walked into our house and he saw the picture. He said, "Ah, you know, you already all the chief rabbis of Israel from they all the chief rabbis of Israel were in our house. All of them. Not not from all of them. They were personal friends of my father. And my father was this guy who learned in nine days that was his >> and that's how he um >> but they saw that he lives you know the says why do people fear in the fear because of his whip not because of him is because of the is automatically the people going to be bottled to him it's upon him I I think that when they saw his battle to the Reb, I think that's what uh what got them. >> Okay. Fine. So, I have a few questions about um the perspective that you gave. I think you encapsulated some of it. Um I just want to go back to the story a little bit. He got so he got engaged to your mother and I believe that the Reb was very much involved in that. No, the one with the real shot was the Rabbi Jacobson Jacobson. But the Reb for example the Reb sent my father to Pittsburgh to the Fabang but really it was so my father could get to see more who the family is. >> Your mother was living in >> my mother was a Bis. She was a teaching from >> Yeah. and Rabadikov gave him I think $75 or $100 Y to buy a present for my mother >> and they weren't engaged. >> They weren't engaged yet. And Lurman then lived in Pittsburgh and he went with my father. >> So your mother is American >> like the as American as the flag. >> She's born in America. >> Mother was born in Chicago. >> Okay. So she's born >> by the way when says >> because she was born before tarin, >> right? >> She was born in sadik test. So >> so an American girl with a Russian >> and it was pretty interesting. My aunt Darren was uh she was very perturbed by this but >> was pushing it pushed it. Yeah. So they got married in Thomas. >> So what's okay? >> They became the those days wasn't the was bas in Pittsburgh and was if you want we'll talk about that about >> it was in New York. >> Oh >> the sound right. What happened was the reb was beside my uncle Zman Zman poser his was in New York the time of the ka was from New York Rabbi Kazanowski's daughter and they all went into by the way then that's when my mother was in by she remembers very well there the next year my uncle label got married in New York and was kadesh So the Reb was ready by two weddings of the family came to my parents wedding eight years later. Now my mother and father wanted the wedding in New York so that it could be gadian because till 1960 >> but then everybody was only if you're going but there was no question that they most of the then were going to go on and my grandfather as much as he wanted the to be in New Yorkers the problem was that he was in Pittsburgh. The yeshiva he has is in Pittsburgh. the donors that he has are in Pittsburgh and come to the daughter. He goes to New York. So get passed. So they didn't know what to do. He also wants the wedding in New York over there. You know, how do you do it? So they went to and they told the Reb the problem. So the Reb said, "We're going to make a compromise. We're going to make the here and the wedding in Pittsburgh." And the Reb said, "We're going to make the Koopa earlier in the day." Normally the hus were five six o'clock you know by the way a little bit of the history of the kupas is 770 the reb used to go to the hall the first three four years the reb went to the hall of the weddings at one point the reb said it's pressure too much time and he can't the first after that was so he said he's not getting married if the reb is not so he asked the reb if he makes the 70 would that be okay said sure That's why >> but he's the one that actually got it. And so the Reb said what he's going to do is they're going to change the schedule, make the earlier in the day like 1:30 or 2:00. And then after the go to the airport, take a plane and go to Pittsburgh and the meal is going the mud is going to be over there. And the Reb I think the Reb said that anyways most people don't come to anyways. Most people come later to the dinner. So, nobody's going to know the difference. Anyways, I'll all time to say that a a cute uh episode about that. I had a cousin from Manhattan, my Bobby's cousin's son, whatever. He was my mother's agent. So, he came to this to the Koopa. Those days, the system was that you could only take two the photographer was only allowed to take two pictures of the Reba by the Koopa. Till 1954, you have a lot of pictures. around 1954 I think it was that I be called a photographer. He was my uncle's brother-in-law by the way. My uncle label and trainer the photographer married two sisters. >> Okay. >> So my uncle label's wife and trainer's wife are sisters. >> Trainer studios. >> Trainer studio. So so the the rabbit told Trainer of the Hoop you can take as many pictures as you like. Of me only two. So there's only two. You come to my parents' wedding, you see a spread of eight, 10 beautiful colored pictures. Everybody had black and white and it's all colors and all these pictures. How did it happen all of a sudden? Because this cousin of ours, he came with his camera. He was a rich kid. He had a camera that makes then in 1958 colored slides a club pictures. You know, he didn't know from nothing. So that's how we have all these beautiful pictures. As a matter of fact, one of the pictures you see a whole bunch of kids with slappers and ties me Katlarski David Lane all these guys and they're all over there. So I asked them once, "What are you guys doing over there by the hoop and with ties?" What happened was this was dal tamos Sunday the in bedford and dean in the yeshiva they had graduation that day mam all the boys heard that is mad kadushi so they all ran away from the graduation they came to they're all sitting there with graduation >> this is >> so they that's and that's not what happened they went to Pittsburgh >> they went oh but I'll just tell you something >> I'm getting confused with the your aunt >> that's another story >> yeah okay >> that's a separate Sorry. So, so my this cousin of mine told me that they actually went to the airport. He drove the car. He had a car and he drove to the airport and he also went along with them to Pittsburgh and a lot of Buckingham went Buckingham couldn't afford to go to Pittsburgh. So, they all went at least to the airport and they all went on the plane like we're talking before you know you go on the plane and we're saying finally they had to leave. So the pilot goes on the microphone. He says, "Okay, whoever is not traveling, please go down so we could go." And the Anyways, find all the brim go and they started dancing by the stairs over there. The plane took off and they saw out the window the brim dancing. They got to Pittsburgh. As they landed, the pilot goes on the on the microphone and he says, "It's impossible. It's impossible. People had no clue what happened. And all of a sudden, he says, "All the people sitting on the left side of the plane, look outside." They look outside and what do they see? Bim dancing. [snorts] Everybody's going crazy. Anyways, they finally stop. They bring the stairs and the buck are there dancing. Now, normally the pilot is the last one that goes off the plane. Every time you go off the plane, you see the pilot is still sitting there, right? Not because he loves the place. I think it's the law that he has to be the last one off the plane. So the here the pilot was the first one to go off the plane. The pilot runs down and he says, "How did you guys do it? How did you guys do it?" The guys are looking at him once. Finally, he told him, "You were just now dancing over there in New York." They understood those. These were brim that the day before they rented a car they went to Pittsburgh to help by the lab by the so they came the day before it's more cheaper rent a car six guys you know >> and they figured if the come to the airport we may as well meet them at the airport >> so that so the pilot said a line unbelievable line he said ah you guys you all look alike and you sing the same tune [laughter] that was a >> another interesting thing that happened though by is the day before was Shabas. The was a Sunday, Dal Thomas. The day before was Gimmel Thomas. This was the first time that Gimmel Thomas fell out on a shabas since yuchat though a lot of fabangans that if it was the middle of the week the reb did not do the reb would do only the big ones but like a tishvat or a zion you know all these other days the would only if it fell out on shabas this gimlas was on chabas but something very interesting happened there were three in that chabas my father David Gurkov later lived to New Jersey and um Hebra from St. Lewis three kasani mean one shabas in labavich those days two happened and label grown happened whatever there were over three I think this was the first time in labavage so the three fathers pner yankov and lab the three fathers this was all upstairs in the small z you know so they went over to the reb after dvening they asked the rebanim So the Reb said was hasteim it's of course we go and that's the famous which is printed in the back of where the says but will switch from death to life switch of death to life is much more than going out of jail right >> so so the reb explains the difference between the personal things of the rebba or the general when it comes out to that's but the fact that was changed from death to life that is a personal thing of the so that's thing of they have to take and that was all that chabas of that so that's the story of the wedding after the wedding >> and by your aunt the same thing happened >> that totally different the same thing that the wedding for totally different But that wasn't because it was already in the family. >> I'll tell you if you want. I'll tell you the story. >> To make a long story short, my aunt >> she my mother opened up a kindergarten in Italy. So she was there for Kafal 1961. My >> she worked by your >> my mother for a year as a she was a teenager. >> I just saw a letter from from the >> Sure about that. >> Yeah. Sent a few letters. >> Beautiful long letters English. >> She was writing to the about the hardship she was having. And >> they brought them all in English. Your mother also, right? >> Sometimes, sometimes English, sometimes Yiddish, sometimes Hebrew. I'm not sure exactly what to say there was. Why these like this, these, like that, but having all three languages. So, Sarifi was there for a year. After the year was finished in the summer, she went to Israel from Italy. She went to Israel. She became a kala. She met him twice or three times, not even. and she became auas. She went back to New York. Now she went back to New York comes Elo and my mother wrote to the Reb that she doesn't have a teacher for next year. She doesn't know what to do. I'm not sure exactly the details how it happened but wrote to the I think the Reb said in other words if she agrees to that she should go back. And so went to Italy for a year as a kala and the date of the wedding was for next tamuzan that year when she was in Italy the tipple that's the family in Italy that because of them my father ended up in my parents ended up in Italy they they were the ones running your shoulder with so Mr. Simple offered to give her a ticket to go to so she could see. She hardly remember what it looked like. >> He wasn't in New York. >> No, no, he was in. He was in. And um and that's when the Reb sent to her the letter that the middle they shouldn't between engagement and the wedding you should see each other. So that's not a good idea. That was to her. That was the So she didn't go. About a month before the wedding, my grandparents went to and the Reba asked them, "What are the plans for the wedding?" So they said, "We're planning to make the wedding in Pittsburgh." This was two years after the Reb stopped, >> right? The Reb didn't do it anymore. >> And the Reba on his own said that he had an idea that he would like to be kadosh fork because she went to Italy for a year. She would you would like to miss out but the made two to know him two conditions. Condition number one is that they have to that until the no one should know about it and number two that they should uh put together a bezdin that the best should pass and there should not be because the reb stopping and all of a sudden the is making an exception >> so as long as I can people you know >> okay >> and I also know who that was the best was my uncle Darren Dr. Tski and Rabbi Chin. There was a rabbi in Mikisport in and the Reb said no and the fact of making the here and the wedding there. You're very experienced. So um >> because my parents happened >> that's how it >> Okay. So after the kasa your parents lived >> crown heights >> crown heights and >> but but for that summer my father was a mashpia or something in general for the summer while there was a mashpia in camp. So he used to come once in a while to crown heights you know to spend the day in 770 once in a while. And one time he was walking in the hallway and Rabbi Khadakov saw him and Rabbi Khadakov told him that uh you and your wife keep on writing to the Reb you want to go onus by the way the started the whole that's a week and a half after half my parents wedding that's started that the afterwards all after started so I told him you you keep on writing to the you want to go people like you cannot be sent on. So my father said favas like what did I do wrong? So he says no no you didn't do anything wrong. My father at that time was a mashpia in Newark in the yeshiva. >> So I thought there was a story that when your father was supposed to become mashpa he didn't want to because he's not going to be able to go on. Is that any truth to that? >> No no it's not true. He he wrote to the Reb before he went on before this whole thing. No, after the Reb said that he's going to go on. So he wrote to the Reb that he was hope something about that. No, >> but I'm not I'm not following the story because >> No, but what when he went to Newark, what what he wrote to the Reb was that he doesn't want to go because he doesn't want to leave. doesn't want to get a job and the reb said no no this is still considered tempm or something like that no those days no there was no talk of when he was a bak no >> oh he when he was a bak he was in New York >> oh okay okay I didn't understand it okay >> he went to New York the bakham then wereper title bomb >> these so he um so he was in your so his whatever tells him You're in Newark, >> right? You're in New York. And the Reb doesn't take people from one Moses to another Moses, >> right? >> So my father told, "Oh, that could be taken care of." >> The person in charge of the yeshiva's then was the Rashag. The Reb's brother-in-law. His office was on the third floor of 770. I you never saw this, but when you walked into 770, you know there's a there was a sign and the sign said over there that office from the United Lab is a floor beta nam elevator. I remember the first time I came to Dre and I saw the word elevator. I want to know what word is that it's not Yiddish. What word is that? Elevator. Yeah. Anyways, so my father went upstairs to Dashag and he told him to get married and he needs a raise. So as much do you need then he used to get I think 70 $80 a month. He says I need $2,000 a month. [snorts] So Dash says two are out of your mind. I can't give you $2,000. My father says, "This is what I need. Take it or leave it. I can't give you $2,000." I said, "Are you firing me?" My father said, "Are you firing me?" He said, "I have no choice." What do you want me to do? So, my father said, "Could you do me a favor? Just give me a little settle that I'm fired. I'll take care of the yeshiva later and everything. I just need a settle that I'm fired." And I gave him a title that he's fired. My father went downstairs and he brought it. In other words, within 10 minutes, he took care of the issue. Rabbi Khadikov I don't know if those who remember Abraadikov he was as he was smart like anything unbelievable he was unbelievably clever clever person but he never showed any emotions or any you know so father gave him the settle okay thank you you know nothing and then about two three weeks later he meets my father in the hallway and he asked him would you be willing to go to Europe. My father said, "Sure." Hey, one minute. You have to call your wife first. My wife, my mother then was in Pittsburgh. She went there for two weeks cuz my father stayed in 770. My mother went there. So, uh, my father said, he's mas don't worry because my mother wanted to go for more than my father. And, uh, and then my father told which country? says, "What difference does it make?" So my father says, "No, no, no. Doesn't make any difference. I'll go anywhere." But because he had a passport with full of problems, like I said before, so he says, "The earlier I know where I'm going, I'm going to start working on a visa. It probably could take a few months until uh goes Marshall Italian, you know, like for example, Italian." >> Mhm. And uh the rest is history. And that's why T my father my parents had to go New York Paris Milan because you know Gitki worked out a visa for them from Paris to Milan from France to uh was a whole story it took about this was al closer to Rasher and they went to Kisliff >> and there's a whole story when they left >> yeah there's a whole shalom and sure >> first of whole mener is got me from his father's diary growner describes the whole of shalom was because they left on a Tuesday there was a big shabas and a big one on Sunday night you know but um they went to not the day they left before and the reb asked him why parents are like shocked We kept on writing how happy they are that they're going against and is asking are you going to do it and gave him a whole bunch of said sometimes you go on a plane somebody may need a met somebody on the plane and he came to my father my father went on around the plane started looking for Jews he didn't find anybody then about two hours into the flight the guy comes tells my father [laughter] seemingly this guy was init Mhm. >> He was in before the told maybe they should learn Tanya and now he was on the plane. He had no Tanya. So, but um yeah and then they uh the the Reb came from his house and he's going to hold you know because my parents were about to leave and asked the grown what's going on. So the reb came out and he waited till he went to the taxi until they left [snorts] >> and then your father right in the beginning he didn't come back to the rabbi. up. What happened was like this. When he landed in Italy was utlv they left you basis. They went to Paris where they were vabas and then Monday youth test they got to Italy Monday Tuesday and and the fab. So they sent a telegram sent a telegram to the he got and by the said somebody should say for my father because That was that first day they were there. And um what did you ask? >> He didn't come back to the in the beginning. >> So came first. It's the first that he's missing. >> He went bananas. So he told my mother, I'm going to go every you'll see. It's like saying today I'm going to go every day to the moon. Today you you can't do that. My father said just to give you a little taste of that came put him my father decided he wants to go to New York he couldn't make it put him came and my father decided he's going for the last days of pes to New York and he actually got one of the tipple brothers he had he got him a ticket and my father was going to come for the last days seemingly my father wrote before >> this is the first year of >> first year to Italy. People didn't travel those days that overseas like this. They need a penny to his name and he wrote to the Reb that he's planning to come for the last days. You know, it's all taken care of. And it's second or third day of and he's downstairs. He's the happiest man on earth. He has his ticket. He's waiting for the taxi. As he's waiting for the taxi to come pick him up to go take to the airport. The mailman comes. The mailman comes. We lived in an apartment building and the mailman puts letters in the boxes and he sees that he puts someone in my father's. My father said, "Let me see what the mail is. I'm waiting for the taxi." Anyways, was a letter from the haste to leave whole thing. Anyways, bottom line is no such thing. And my father stayed. >> The Reb got a report that he was leaving. >> No, my I think my father wrote he wrote the >> Yeah. Rebu. >> No, my father wasn't going to come to the without permission. >> So he wrote to >> he wrote to and that letter came as he's waiting for the taxi. That's why people see this letter in it. It doesn't say to who to what. You don't see the of the letter. If you know that it's to my father and he got it as he's waiting for the taxi. This is Mishnal and the Reb sent it a week before you know because those days you send a letter from New York to Italy. >> Were there official rules then about when you're allowed to come to the >> not yet it started like the following year because that's the next year more now. It started the rule of the two every two years but my dad rule did not apply to my father that rule did not apply to my father at to a three extent my father's till 1977 he used to come once a year two times I think he went twice after talf that's when he started coming every every six weeks every you know every he was here one time told him As long as you have a good reason. I'll give you an example of a good reason started moodi. The gazer of mudi which I'm sure you have plenty on this and my father would ever got very involved in that. I could talk who knows how long about my father's involvement. And what my father did in Crown Heights there was a group called eager lean kiadis. Nobody knew who's behind this. One of them is still alive. I'm not going to say his name. If you want I will. But the people who are gone is Ich Springer and whatever it was. >> That's a chauffeur. That's the same name. >> Chauffeer association. These were the two. >> I think they had an office in 788. Yeah. >> I think I work in their office. >> Yeah. Springer Davis Hill. No. >> No. I'm saying I think where I sit is was their I think. I'm not sure. >> Very very possible. So my father made up with them. My father made up with them every month send me a letter that you're making an aifa and you need me there. So this my father always had in his pocket one of these letters in case of a will ask him why did you come he'll be able to pull out never asked him but I'm just saying he had so that's when he started coming a lot but the first year he he came for and every year he came for I think he missed maybe one or two years but I'm saying on the general rule he came every year for for two reasons number one because of and number two it's August in Italy is dead. People are gone. Wouldn't know the difference anyways. And uh so it's like, you know, catching two birds that I in one shot, >> right? >> And uh Okay. Soal, there's a I think there's um about your father. First of all, I'm thinking of at least five stories that I know about your father that we can talk about and I'm sure there's many hundreds that I don't know that you can share. And this I I think we uh hope there's a book being written about this >> preparing a book. It's going to be literally thousands of pages. >> Yeah. I'm saying this is we we we be we could be sitting here for for days talking about it. Um so >> let me let me just say my father got ble hundreds correspondence between my father. When I say I mean you have to understand that all all the letters from the Reb secretaries were all either dictated by the Reb. They for sure had to go through the Reb. There was no such thing mosquito sending out a letter unless just a letter saying you know a standard but any letter with any everything went through the I have letters many that signs and I see that the corrections are the it's obvious okay so I have lean hundreds of documents and you put the story to each one of them you have right away Yeah. >> Among is brought to you by We live in a chaotic world, a world where for us is a we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. Yet we know that the is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. 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Barakashem, it takes a lot of resources and finances to make this all happen. You can be part of the through your financial support as well through visiting our website.org or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. So, I want to move on to you yourself. Like we said, a client. So, I said that already. So, first of all, your name you're named after the Deb's father. So I don't know how common that was. >> It wasn't common at all. >> Okay. >> I at now at present >> we had I had Brook on a recent episode he was talking about the whole story with his brother with but >> right so and he thought for years that he was the first Levi. >> Right. Then he said that he found out that there were a few more and then >> I found out >> okay >> because there was a Jewel in Muay and he had a few sons. Now Martin passed away before Gimm came out to the la about 10 years later one of his sons passed away who actually he's interviewed by Jem and they asked me to do the laadav you know so I did the lava and I did ka with the children and then an older person came over to me and he says he also has to do ka so I asked are your he says he's a brother of I said you are a biosul son she said yeah so I said may I ask what your name is she says lev I said lev what kind of name is Lev says no actually my name is Leviet I said you must be kidding I said and you're named after his father right she says yeah so I said [cough] sorry by the When I was in the Reb asked me, "Who are you named after?" So I also have a connection and we became very very good friends and he told me first of all he came to Crown Heights for the F that year we made for 80 years of 70 or 80 >> 80 pal. Sure. So we made a thing in Crown Heights. It was a barit of Leviet. So we made a like a little levietra gathering and he came he is an exceptional person adel very very smart he's into computers but he was and he said that was by his bris tin hey in other a few months after the pass away in sure he was born in al- mat and zana was there anyway so he was the first leak >> so when you were born your father gave name levit >> my parents Actually my mother actually was more her idea. They were discussing the names and my mother came up with the concept of giving Levi and of course my father jumped on the idea >> and that was totally um novel at that time >> at that time was and of course and uh came to the British now of course the Reb didn't know about the name the just sent a letter for my parents sent a telegram to I guess to the reb that I was born so the reb sent a regular British letter but Inside the letter there was also a $5 bill. Now $5 bills and brisen goes together because inim the reb says that there's a meaning that the sandic gives money the make for the yeshiva for the for the baby. The reb was the reb was sandic four times. One time before the nus and three times after the nasius. before the nas was shalomiz and the three times after nas was frozen was infas and kitiz I don't know by all of them but by one of them for sure theb said that the wasb and the said that the meaning is that you give money to make uh down payment for the yeshiva and the fidic took out 20 zlotus and the rebba said the 20 zlotus is the equivalent of $5 and the reb gave $5 for the yeshiva so my parents made a bris and the reba sent $5 let anybody learn shot whatever they want but that's what that was the matas I only found out about this about five six years ago my mother gave me the $5 bill um so that was that then when my father of course when he went to New York kovv Um my father wanted to bring me to the Reb >> a little uh baby. >> Yeah. This was uh I was born in and this was and my father got a telegram back from the that he could come you know that for me to travel now is not okay. So my father didn't bring me and as a matter of fact asked him where's he said my father didn't want to tell her that the didn't let that whatever whatever that he gave over there why I didn't come the following year my parents sent to the a picture of me which is this picture right here. This is the picture that >> the same now it was bigger. It was about this size. I have I have one exactly the same size >> drawing the camera. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But it was this picture. So when Zakana got it. So my parents got a letter from this is an original letter from >> right here. Shalom. I received the p the letter and the pictures. Seemingly they sent more pictures besides for that one. Thank you. The children are sweet and nice. You should get from them a lot of in all the details. As you wish. Now I have a few smas. But this is my smith where she writes I was only three years old at the time. Okay. And her signature and then regards to my auntk who was there as a as a girl posner. >> Can you show it to the camera? >> Sure. But uh put a little closer. Perfect. Here's the letter. And here is the envelope where you could see CH Schneeren 148 President Street and this actually collected miles because as you can see first it was returned to the Rebbitson for additional postage 10 cents. So then it was sent to Ghanis. Seemingly they received it in Ghanis and my parents had already left Ghanis was already after the summer. So they wrote via 16 Milano and that's how it got to my parents. So it took a little while till it got there but it finally got there. So you can see over here the so she was very appreciative of the le I never saw the rabbit but she saw me every day and you're going to ask how because the rabbit she lived in 14 later she lived in 1418 president street today it's very old redone you see where redid the whole building over there but the way it was there were two doors 1414 and 1418 President Street. When you went to 1418, there was a long hall stairs to go to the upstairs floors. It was an apartment building. Downstairs, there were two apartments, one on the right, one on the left. The Rabbitson lived on one on the left. Now, when you went into the apartment, the first room was like a dining room, living room. There was a table with chairs, a couch, and a break front like a mobilizer. Now the Rebbitson had two pictures of the Rebe in that dining room. First she had on the wall of somebody gave her in a [snorts] frame four small pictures and one bigger picture in the center. The four small ones were the and the of those we have pictures and the middleb this was hanging on the wall. When the unic family got mural ununic got married that we mentioned before he was very close to the rebbitson because he came out from Russia then with the rebbitson the famous picture that we have of the rebana is from the unic wedding >> right >> because he was very close to the rabbit so actually the picture of the rabbana you got the original picture has the head table they just pulled out the zana that's how we have after their wedding was gushian of course by their wedding after the wedding They came to the Reb and showed her the album of the pictures of the wedding. There's a picture of the Reb by their stunning picture. It's in the back of the Mad Israel, you know, the Reb is standing straight looking. It was the middle of the reading of the stunning picture. And the Reb that's why I heard the story that she was looking at the album of the pictures. Mamos, she came to this picture of the Reb. It's really a stunning picture. She said Shane build what a beautiful picture. And then right away she took it back. She said not this is my zoom, not because it's my son. It's just a beautiful picture. And then she right away turned to the next page, you know, not to make a but they saw that she likes the picture. The rabbitson likes the picture. So they went to a studio and they made her a copy of this picture and she had it on the break. When she got my picture, she put it next to that picture of the Reb on the break. >> And I heard from some people who went to Mobileish, this was two years later and they saw both pictures there on the break. >> That picture is also the whole story with the house. >> Was it house? >> That picture was in hanging in the house, too. >> It was. Yeah. You mean the picture of the >> That same picture. >> I think we wrote about it once. >> Could be. I don't know. >> Um >> um also from the Unix. >> Yeah, >> if I remember correctly, there's something with that also said something about that picture. That picture we there's a it was hanging in the Reb's um like study in his house in the street. Yeah. So >> could be the whole thing's house. I >> Yeah, there's the whole thing with that picture. And so this is the le but then the first time I was in so >> my next question was when did you come to the that's what I wanted to know about >> okay so first of all I came to the reb the first time I was seven the lazars they used to go every two years I don't know why we didn't but they used to go now Lazar is in Russia but I'm talking about right now he wasn't born yet you know he had two older sisters another the oldest one is my age so she used to go and she used to tell me what goes on in New York, you know, by the Reb. I wanted to know how tall is the, you know, I didn't I only saw pictures. That's that's all there were. And those days, there weren't too many pictures of the Reb. There were 10 pictures of the Reb. That's all there was. But every single night, I had a picture of the Reb in my room and my closet right over here. This every night I used to go to the picture of the Reb before I go to sleep and I used to say every night I still say it today. Okay. So I had this sort of a relationship with the Reb. I I never saw him but I saw him every single day. And uh Vinvi when I was four years old I got a letter from the Reb. When I was six years old I got a letter from the Reb. My mother used to make me write and used to write back. So this in New York I was buddy buddy you know he writes me letters. I see him every day and they say so I knew that he's in the other end of the world but I didn't feel far. I must say this really is what happened to me after Gimmel Thomas after Giml Thomas I just went back to my earlier part of life where there was on the other end of the world is running the show and I just can't see him right now and I'll see him tomorrow you know whenever I'll anyways finally when I was seven my parents decided my that we should go to the you know my mother hadn't been here in seven years time before that she was in New York was when she was pregnant with me. So this was seven years before. So now we came on Utud Kisv Utthis was on a Wednesday if I'm not mistaken. I think you just was Thursday or Friday, whatever. I think it was on a Wednesday. The day before on the Tanya translated into Italian came off the press. The Rebe asked my father three years before to start translating Tanya in Italian. You're talking about a massive project. First of all, those days there was only Italian English which was Mandel and the Reb did it. So here you have to take in Italian and translate it. This is it was almost impossible. It's a whole long story. The Reb told my father who to use as a translator etc. Somebody in Triesta a whole story. Anyways, so finally it came off the press mish the day before. So my father decided to send it to the reb even if it's not bound yet. They're just even just the paper. So the reb should see that it's printed and you know very soon it's going to be bound. And my parents decided that the first time that I'll see the reb I should give it to the first time we saw the reb was we came to 770. Those days the Rebi used to go home every day between at 5:30 to 6:30 for about an hour prox and you you were able nobody used to approach the nobody approach almost nobody ever approached the if you wanted to talk to you went to you know you made an appointment months if you you could write a title to the reb would answer but not approaching the only people who would stand was when the reb used to go out of m or miv people are traveling they would stand in the hallway and the reb would pass by them if people were standing there that means that people are traveling so the would say to everybody travel safely and we said good news if it was people from France would say no anyways so we decided the is going to go home soon about 5:30 so we stood on the sidewalk of right you know between the the last steps and the car we stood was my mother my father didn't come with us my mother and the six of us my youngest brother wasn't born yet my brother Yosi was only six months old so I was the only boy from from the crew have four sisters but I was the only boy and I had the Tanya in a plastic we saw the Reb's light go out so we knew the reb is coming out the rebu walked out of 770 there's a light on top of the door came out he It was the first time that I saw I mean I saw pictures but the Reb was literally shining you know because the light and it's dark the came down came down came to us the stopped we all said the of unison and then I went over to the and gave the Reb took it was in a clear clear plastic saw it was like a you know didn't say anything but but did say ad but you know that's strong ad you know went to the car and that was that the following shabas there was fabangan was in this case living then there was fabangan now the whole 770 was then a quarter of what it is today was till the first sh you know till the first bean and the reba's table was twice the stable not much more and place was packed. I was a little kid. The Reb said to Ghulen, my the at the end of the Reb's table on the right side, the Rashag sat. The Reb's brother-in-law. My Zadi used to stand behind the Rashag. So my cousin brought me a milk box. >> Your father wasn't there? >> No. My father wasn't there for that whole trip. We were there for two months and uh brought me a milk box and he put it right behind the shak and that's that was my place for fab that's where I stood all of a sudden in the middle of one of the and for melab was because at that time there were only three records of so that's the only stuff that I heard basically the nonunim in Milan had four or five beers so how often did I hear people singing nigunim you know But you know by my table this is that but very and then they used to have fabian once in a while but it wasn't and here I have hundreds thousands of people singing the songs that I know anyways all of a sudden in the middle of one of the nunim I see that people are starting to look in this direction and I was trying to figure out did I because but in I was singing and dancing I loved it but if the sikas I I spoke yiddish but I didn't understand the sikas I was a little kid but And all of a sudden I see everybody's looking in this direction. I felt it. And then all of a sudden the is also looking in this direction with a smile. Then the people down here you know. So one of them tells me gay gay is calling. So I went took [clears throat] a piece of cake gave me a piece of cake and I went back to my place. Years later, I looked at the Fabangian and I saw that Reb said then that there were two major milestones reached this in. And the first one is that the Tanya was printed in Italian. They have discussed the whole thing that and then that first we have to refine as and then where is that blessed as told you're going to have the fattest of the lands but is that Italian Italy clear so the says we're taking now and we are Italian was whole. Then I then many many years later when the eager kesh came out the letters from the Reb the Reb sent Italian to Shazar the president of Israel he doesn't speak Italian but the Reb explains to him that in the Pik it says when was pregnant that they were they were fighting it says when right when Asab is above falls down and so during the time of Golab is on top will be on top. So the Reb says, "Now we're taking and look in the letter. That's a very letter." So um gave you I'm making 1 plus one equals two. It was that and said that. So I would assume that that's what it was. That was one thing. Now comes so I ded every single upstairs. It was very noticeable because I was right there. right after the Reb's table and one time I walked out after my was Kaneka I walked out after the Reba left and I see that there's somebody I see that from the back I didn't realize it was the Reb and my mother was in the hallway and she was like looking down I came I saw the Rebu was pulling out from his back pocket here silver dollars for Kanek guilt. Give me a second here. This is a silver dollar that I got from the Rebean tough shinas. Did I give up? >> This is the letter when I was four years old. This is when I was six. This is when I was nine. [laughter] So yeah. So that was that Khan. I got Kanekal which was also at that time because used to give to the brim but then the Reb stopped. A long long story but anyways I got Kanekal. Then there was one time that we spent a lot of time in Pittsburgh by >> Zadi and we decided we we're going to Pittsburgh. Now our flight was supposed to leave I think around 5:00 but we didn't want to miss Mkha. Now the Rebi used to come out to Ma 3:15 generally but sometimes the Reb would come out 3:20 3:25 and sometimes Abra would come out and say the Reb said he's going to come out 10 minutes later you know now we had to leave 770 at 3:30 on the dot in order to catch the flight in LaGuardia to go to Pittsburgh whoever was driving us I don't remember told us we have to leave at 3:30 so I figured this time I won't go inside for I'll stay because to go outside in middle is going to be hard for me you between all the bakim we'll stand outside in the hallway. If the Reb will come into Ma anytime before 3:30, at least we'll see the Reb going into MK, right? And then we'll take off to the airport. So, we're standing there in the hallway. The Rebu walked out at 3:15, but it was too late for me to go into the already. If I would have been inside, I could have stayed till the end of M and I may still make it out by 3:30 cuz Mley used to take about 10 minutes. So, I was outside in the hallway. The Reb walked out from his room and he saw me standing there but he didn't say the Reb didn't say anything continued going into the but I remembered that the BIM were shushking the looked something okay the Reb came out we were still standing there because it was and you know we had another two three minutes the Reb walked out he saw me standing there he stopped right by the elevator called me over the asked me with my minion. Why don't you have a ma with my minion? Some people said over there said minion. I don't know. I think the said, but I remember clearly what it looked like, you know. >> [snorts] >> We left yud gimlvat back to New York to Milan towat was on a Tuesday that year was Friday shabas because I remember Friday night everybody prepared like there's going to be a mime because of there was a busi on Friday night >> like like you described by the governor >> but the rebu walked in and the so they told that uh they thought there's going to be a mb said no tomorrow anyway. So, but I remember that clearly we were standing outside Ma was going to be at 3:15. So, we figured we'll come let's come to Mina. So, we came about a quarter to 3, you know, talk to this one, talk to that one. Vin, we're going back to Italy for my mother. You know, she wasn't here already in seven years and who knows next time when she's going to come back. As we were talking to some people there, Rabbi Khadakov happened to pass by the Reb secretary number one secretary. He happened to pass by and went to the Reb's room for something like he used to do during the day. He came out and he said these words wants you going to right now. >> You were scheduled to go a different time. >> No, we was going back to Italy that day. My mother went and then we came right away. She had >> she had a what happened was she came and the first night after we came the asked why didn't my mother go in that night said because it wasn't prepared so she went the next night or whatever so she went to then but now the reb went to see the whole family cuz at that time my little ones had gone to pit already they stayed there most of the time anyways so we went into when we came in you were able to see that I was waiting for us. The table was clear. There was nothing on the table. Yeah. The telephone, you know, two, three little things. But I'm saying Andre was sitting with his hat with every, you know, mish. We went in the spoke to my mother for a while. I don't know how long. And later I found out it was mostly about me. That want to know who's my Mhammed? What do I learn? you know how how they're managing but you know all kinds of stuff. Then the Reb spoke to spoke to her a bunch of other things. Then the Reb spoke to my older sister. Then the Reb turned to me and the Reb asked me what is your name? So I said learn what do you learn? So I said which told us told us what does mean I said the kinder the children whose children who was father but it took a while you know everything with a smile very you know Who are you children? Then the Reb asked me, now I spoke Yiddish, a good Yiddish, but the word from I never heard for whatever reason. I don't know if in Italy they don't use it. I don't know, but I never heard the word from. So I turned to my mother and to my mother I talked to an Italian. So I told her, I don't understand that word. But my mother was standing like this. I reminded myself Lazar's the oldest daughter. I told you she's my age. She one time told me, don't ask me where she speaks Italian. So I reminded where she knows from. I have no idea. But she told me Debbie speaks Italian. Later I found that out on my own. That's another whole story. I had stuff. But uh so I turned looking back at the Reb. I figured one second the Reb speaks Italian, right? He heard what I asked my mother, right? I looked back at the Reb. The Reb with a big smile, the Reb says. So I said Yakov, in other words, the Reb understood where my what my issue was that Yak. So the Reb said no. That's the case. Let's talk about Yak. Then Reba asked, "Do you know if Yakov had any children?" She said, "Yep." I had a Muslim and I came that trip Italian kid, my cousins, my uncles, they everybody went crazy, you know, because the first time they see us, I got so many presents and boom, about two weeks before I got a present, a puzzle of the 12vati. So I knew asked me because it's the next. So I said, "Yep." The said, "Do you know their names?" I said, "Yep." So the Reb says, "Start saying." So I said, the raised his hand. I I'll never forget that. Enough. I said, "Okay." The Reb asked, "What was the name of the third son?" So I said ley bus what is your name ley the next question I am 99% certain that the words were vishtus like who is ley here something like that at that time I fig I don't know I knew I just have to there's no there's no wast no wasting time here so I told theb that leies created two leies I was seven years old. >> Okay. >> Which is that your ley and >> that ley do ley like something like okay then not serious but like a more you know like a more I'll never forget [snorts] that. And the says who are you named after? I was thinking how do I do it in Italian? I knew how to say yours to a king. I knew I had no clue how you supposed to say to a king. What are you supposed to do? and to say to the I also didn't want I don't want to say in front of the but I decided I'm not taking any chances and I said when I said the Reb gave me a big smile and he gave me this sitter This is the I got youas. Israeli Israeli >> Israeli sidd which has everything in here right and actually I give it to a lot of kalist on the day of the wedding whatever but this what the gave me then in so he asked me before about the this was the I remember going into after that with this and I remember we came into the zal everybody was waiting for vice we were there for at least a half hour because it was way after 3:15 And I remember was dabbing with everybody but it's talking about the sid you know. >> So you went back to Banana and what what were the um the subsequent uh visits by the reba as a child. >> So after that I came to the Reb when I was 10 and a half. I came to Lammed Bay 1972 Tish. [clears throat] I was going to be here for the whole T but my cousin wasn't where I was supposed to stay wasn't feeling well. So like I I was in Pittsburgh for the first till the first days of sukis and I was here for sim but at that half a year I learned in Pittsburgh. So I came in for Utuskis, I came forat, I came in for Puddim, I came in for Nissen. So I was here at Basim which was special that whole year while we were no there was just one time I came back to New York because my mother came and we went into then my sister became based 11. I'll never forget how we walked out of so then I saw the secretary Rabbi Klein who later became my father-in-law but uh he told us that that he has a letter from my sister for the basitzvah and I asked him where's my letter I used to get letters from before my birthdays you know I mean I got three four of them he says no you were in I said my sister was also in says yeah but she became basm I said and I became 11 so I remember I started crying like baby how come I didn't get a letter and he started explaining to me as much as he was trying to you know you went to it's you know I think the told us then to go to the remember told us once to go to the oil I remember we went there it was snowing like those days hard people hardly you know we only went to we went there went yeah then was uh then the following year I came again for a I was in New York for a month from purim till Pesak then in the summer of lamemed giml that's when I came to stay I came to g and then I went to then to parkway etc that first year tough ladal right after my beritz there's a whole story with my veritzah but I'll get back to it now let me start with baritzah my bitz was inh now the boys of my class at that Ala they went to the Reb did not far them in the pilpair the boys in the pilp but my classes they said that the didn't so I wasn't worried you know when I went to now that whole summer in camp I learned with their pina [snorts] the is what my pull is going to be based on famous there's inv there's a whole thing the questions that he asked the about for questions and answers >> so that's and about whatever so I knew the concept my father came from Italy on a Sunday afternoon baritzvah was Monday night we went into because Sunday and Thursday so I went the night of my bar mitzvah the next morning I got an aliyah by the reb and for Shabas we went to Milan that's what the whole big bit was and I came back to the before to go to yeshiva we went to first of all those days one of the toughest things was you had to give to the settle from Danala in a sealed envelope and you know Bim and Hollers don't always see eye to eye and Bim had no clue what Dan Holler wrote to the but had to be a sealed envelope there's he could do anyway. So that was my first thing I had to give the Reb to settle and I wasn't I was only 12 but uh I had my my issues with that and the Reb looked at it didn't say anything then the Reb said my father on the you know he he prepared a pill for me about five six pages and seemingly he sent the Reb copy I didn't know I had just read it quickly before we went here just to see what because that was the only time I could see the fil went and the said since I got a copy of what you're going to be saying maybe you could say a point of what you're going to say those days there was only one all the time started in 74 in the summer this was in the winter it was only mitzf since 19687 from the war. So I told the Reb that I'm going to be speaking about why the Reb chose the mitzvah of fillin because there was a war and the Pik says when the nations of the world will see name on your forehead they'll fear you says that's why I gave like a whole looks up and says your only answer why you have to wear the film on the head but what about on the So I said well there's another that and they were the pioneers that went into the that they got from wask that the when they used to go to war they used to chop off the hand and the head of the enemy with one shot. So it says in the that was the mitzvot filling on the hand and the head that they were able to do that. So I told the that's also for the this gave me a then I went to Italy came back for you to a month later came back for the fabian shabas shabas after you after all of a sudden the tells raer to pull out a bottle of mashka from under the table. Okay. The Reb takes the bottle and the Reb calls out their bar mitzvah from Milan. I was thinking, is it me? My bar mitzvah was a month ago. I I'm done. So I didn't go. I thought maybe there's somebody I don't know. So Rab Groner from he was standing next to the he sees me. Okay. So I came up but I had no cup. I had no I wasn't ready. Usually Rab Grono used to have in his pocket cups. He had no cups. There's no cups. [laughter] All of a sudden, the is standing there with the bottle. I'm standing there. I'm waiting for a cup. The Reb took the cap of the bottle that I put a mashki in the cap and he gave me the cap. I drank it and I turned red like a burik, you know, because it was the first time in my life that. So the took a piece of cake. He gave me a second piece, a third piece of like [laughter] to relax me, whatever. And then [clears throat] the Rebbit closed the bottle and the Rebbit said Milan, you should give out a little here and the rest in Milan. This was so the next day I wrote to the Reb that I came to go to yeshiva, but if the Reb wants to go back to Milan, I'll go back tonight, you know. No. So the Reb answered like this. I don't remember the exact Lion. I have it written somewhere that what he said to give out a little here is because of Min. You're not allowed to prepare from Shabas for after Shabas. So the Reb couldn't give me just to give out in Milan. So that's what the Reb said I should give some here and the rest in Milan. I wrote to the Reb that I was planning to come here till Pes and then the Reb said when I'll go back for Pesak that's when I should give it out. So I don't have to go back special. Fine. I'll put the story on the side. Comes PES Udal Niss that year Nissen was on a Wednesday. Fabu is going to be Wednesday night. If I want to go to Italy for PES, it's Thursday night because the flights didn't go only at night and they come there. That year was of Peshab. So I'm going to get there when Friday afternoon. now Friday afternoon and I still have a bottle of mashka that I have to go. I'm not even going to be in shul for shak because I'm arriving 11 12 o'clock instead of pes. So I was thinking I should go Wednesday night but I have I have to give the mask. I was like stuck in a couple days before and I know what to do. help that every day my mother came for but she was planning to leave before Fabanga together Thursday camedal in the morning that Wednesday morning and the rebi came from his house it was a beautiful bright day now the people didn't stand around the later years people started standing I'm all when the rebi came there was nobody in sight so we were almost by the corner of Kingston Avenue you know we watched the reb go out of his car fiki went to 770 so we towards 770. As we come towards 770, Rabbi Klein comes out. He sees us and he goes like this and he asks us, "Uh, did you see the Reb?" Said, "Yeah." "Did the Reb see you?" I said, "I have no idea." Well, he saw you and he wants to see you again. He tells my mother and myself going to Okay, we went again. The Rebi came out from his room with a pack of a goddess. You had that was the first year that came out a hardbound. Now the audim like till [snorts] 19. Then there was this first bound one. >> Rebe had a bunch of bound ones and a bunch of is and here the Reb hadim this how the Reb came out like this the Reb gave my mother a thick then the Reb gave for my father my father wasn't there a for my father then the Reb asked me I was thinking even gave him m asked I didn't answer of course and the gave me a thick Then the Reb asked me your older sister. Of course I didn't. And the Reb gave me gave it to me or to my mother. I remember he asked me then. Then [snorts] there was only thin ones left. The Reb told my mother she should say the names of the next children and he's going to give a god for each one. And so the next one is Sasha. She was 11 on the bas took each ab looked like. No like like this like this like this is next one >> the looked like this like this like this each of the all their gods. Then there was one left, you know, once the Reb gave for all the children, there's one left. The Reb took out the Miktav and the Reb gave one to my mother in Yiddish. Then he gave the Reb gave one in English. Then the Reb said, then the Reb gave for my father in Yiddish. And the Reb said English one he doesn't need. Then the Rebi gave me a cli and he gave to for my sister. Then there was one a left. I was dying to know who is this one for. And as soon as that happened, the Reb said Daniels. There was a Jew in Italy Daniels. As a matter of fact, I see on the WhatsApps they would send out all the sikas. So they have a picture of younness and tal bay. If you look on the Reb's right, there's a guy with a mustache. That's Mr. Daniels. Not going to go. It's a whole long story who Mr. Daniels is. So the Reb said to give it to him. Then the Reb asked my mother something private. That was it. Fartik. And then we went to Mosquito started writing in to what belongs. You know as we're doing that mamal when the rebi used to buzz from his room to mosquito was like a like a so rabbi climb picks up the phone the reb should come back so we took the whole thing back went back to and the reb was there waiting and the reb asked back for the one for Daniel's which was a thin one and the reb gave a thick one >> and the reb said he [snorts] deserves Fine. That was that. We're back into By the way, you know that said one time a day of his don't talk to anybody. We got two >> went back at the mosquitoes the right and all of a sudden again the Reb is calling. So we waited and the Rebi spoke a minimum of 3 4 minutes was talking Klein was listening listening and the Reb is talking talking finally he closed he says no you don't have to go back the story is as follows the thick hag right what is it in the beginning they have the hagod with then later they added and letters the last thing on in the in the is The which is printed the end of the last words on the bottom the talks about so the end mish is the what's the reason why we don't say byism because of the tar of the baby when the reba received the hag that the vad printed The Reb said it's no good because a safer has to finish with something good. >> Sim and here you finished off with something bad. Now they already had printed their didn't know what to do. Now there's two versions to the story. I'm going to tell you the the version the way I remember it from then and then how I heard this year a different version but I'll still stick to mine. So what I heard then was that the Reb told the Vad that they have to figure out what to do. So they asked the Reb what should they do? The said they should make a stamp with something there and this way it'll be finished. So at least then I heard that the VA decided to put the sha above here then there go over there you have to learn all the that's so the basically told that I should go upstairs toad because these audi the whole story that how they printed and it was you have And so I went upstairs to the VA. I remember I walked into Rabbi Rab Shapiro Zan was there and I told and Jacobson and I told them I was by the now and the gave us a good and oh they were so happy to because this was the first time they heard some back from the about the stamp. This year I heard a version that that they decided to put at that time I heard that the said but whatever bottom line is that that's what it was. So once I got the I already went back Wednesday night and I missed but etc. Right. >> So that was a ham to my baritzvah. >> Okay. So in the questions that I prepared, we didn't even uh we didn't get to a lot of them still. So uh I should have anticipated this uh before. So I think what we're going to do is we're going to have to do a part two to this uh three two >> whatever it'll take. Yes. Pleasure. If you go backwards, we can with your father, we could do a few podcasts, but at least what I have on my questions. Um, for the listeners, we'll do a part two and will be here before that. So, uh, >> so this mean as as said, >> Amen. Okay. Thank you very much. >> Pleasure.