Ep. 32: How To Be A 'Successful' Chossid with Rabbi Aron Kamman

If you're looking and you're tack looking, the truth is accessible. You'll find the truth. So someone that's taken and you see I think you seek even come to this come to come to every everything else is empty. This is this is the real stuff. That's the deepest most real motivation for for me to learn, for you to learn, for anyone to learn. This is my this is my guide book for life. If you've been enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe so that others can enjoy it as well. In addition, if you've benefited in any way from a monkin podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at their.org/donate. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing fabin about life as our vibrant connection with the rebba an inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day my dear brother how are you good how are you >> okay thank you very much for being here all the way from Toronto and I think we should begin uh with the uh you always have something to share and something on your mind. So maybe we'll we'll we'll start with that. How how does that sound? >> Sure. That's the uh but maybe one step one step before it says then so >> okay like a real rabbi. I was just thinking to myself, you know, the whole idea over here of coming together is more like a did I kind of get it right? >> I would say so for sure. It's a different format and different style, but uh it might it might even have some mileas over traditional faban which I don't know if we have to discuss now. Maybe we can discuss later, >> right? But the recording and the pictures and the cameras and the microphones, the formalities of it is a little bit interesting. So it reminded me there was a story circulating when they made the first recording of and they hired aid that was a professional notab and he practiced with them and he rented a studio in Manhattan and he's mire the first recording that you know he had his time that they were supposed to start the recording they're paying you know every hour in this fancy studio in Manhattan he doesn't see his finally like mame at the last minute he's watching out the window he sees huge group of coming with women with with their I guess with their wives. He couldn't understand where they're going, where they're coming and they all of a sudden they all pile into the studio and much more than the people. He had like I think 16 people that were supposed to sing and they start unpacking cake and mashka like what's going on over here? So, uh they said what do you mean making a faban? She says now here like why? He says, "What do you mean? You think we're just singers coming like microphone and sing?" This is we're coming here to spread this. So we have to, you know, we have to get in the mode. And sure enough, they started. He said, "When is it? How long is this?" He says, "As soon as it finishes, then it's over." They tell him. So they start. And then after they then they went and it wasn't in a microphone. It was with so um somehow we have to rise above you know all the recordings I see you have you know your astronaut things on there I got a little bit of a smaller thing to make it I don't know virtually or work you know over over the internet they might you know sometimes crash into each other I think what you said is good so that will be let's talk a But there will be a little bit of maybe even more than than just a mistake. So just a short v and you know obviously it's in everyone's mind terrible the tragedy that took place in Sydney including that were killed. So just a short thought. This was not long after obviously a big for and this was obviously coming up throughout the I think it was still to give a tote. So there wasn't any official on the that we bench at the end of the we know that we say amen but we say amen after each refrain we say we say amen again asked a question on if you're saying amen each time of these three phrases so why only at the end does it say amen explained when you say you don't need encouragement to say you hear that wow for sure everyone will scream when you hear what does means that it was that it was there was something negative but we're saying will give us when you hear that so easily we need to push and to encourage We have to say to that too. Why? We're anticipating we're anticipating a year. We hope for we don't hope for anything negative. But yet we need to be pushed and we have to say amen to that too because we know that even when there is something negative is the one that's sending us a we say to that because even when that situation does arise we have the guarantee of the will beh at the end. That's the vers. Okay. So, >> regarding this situation and regarding the gulus at large >> for sure. >> Um, okay. So, I think another way that we can uh discuss is that I know that you know we're brothers but there's a age gap. You know, I'm not sure if it's only the oldest brother. you're not the oldest but uh or it's any older brothers you know maybe someone can send me a if it's included all older brothers or not but definitely um there's a lot that you know a big part due due to our age gap things that I heard from you and learned from you over the years and uh one of the things is that we're born in the same family but a very different times I was born before Gimotamos but I grew up pretty much afterwards wards and uh while you were not an older baka, you're youngish, but definitely you had a different experience growing up with the um you know, and maybe uh you can share some uh some some of that with me. >> Okay, that's the plan. Uh, I I do want to say that I look a little bit older than I am because they gave me a little bit more white. A lot of times people do think I'm the oldest because my beard is a little bit longer than all my brothers put together. You see the end? Okay. So, uh, but I do have some memories, but I want to backtrack if I may one step behind because our collective memories are to our father. Like you mentioned, we're brothers. It's true. I remember when you were born. You were born uh shortly before my bar mitzvah. Hey, right. I got it right. And I was mitzvah. >> So, >> and I think when I think um did you go to dollars right before your bar mitzvah? Do you remember? >> I I did. Now I don't remember if it was mish. It wasn't the day of my bitzvah. It was on a Sunday if I remember correctly. You know, you could check the calendar. So I don't think I went that day. We were living in my then and you know the till the day of the mitzvah maybe if I would have been a bigger they would have went that day but I think I went the week before if I remember correctly. >> So what so what day is that? What's the math math? I'll leave for somebody else. No, because No, I I could be it's that I have to check the video, but I think it's during that dollars that um Tati told the Reb that my wife just had a baby boy regarding me. I think it's probably that Sunday. I have to look the video to see if you were there. I can imagine you were there. And and the Reb said, "This is for your wife." Another said, "Good news." Yeah, that was >> No, it's it's probably in connection with although you had also so whatever. Okay, go ahead. I'm not sure if that was the same time. The next day after my bar mitzvah, I was ali on Monday and uh obviously that was a big part of my baritzvah. But again backtracking since we share fathers so we could share this too really our beginnings and our connection to the begins with our father parents >> and and your mother also right? >> Father too for sure. So I was always interested to know how did that story come about and how did the how did our father get connected to the yiddish. So I remember a few times hearing that he said that his brother Uncle Shmo called him up. They were in different places and he said called him by his first name. He said what you've been looking for you've been looking for all along. It's in your back pocket. You're looking for you're looking for the purpose in life. You're looking for deeper meaning. And unfortunately he didn't think to turn to Yiddish because he thought spirituality and is elsewhere. And he told no no what you're looking for is in your back pocket. So now I wanted to backtrack the story a little bit more. How did uncle come to the So I asked him and he said, "Oh, our cousin Ley Garbos invited him. How did he >> last night by the way?" >> Okay. So he said he was in he was I forget where he was and Ley calls him up and he says he says, "Why don't you come to New York for the weekend?" Okay, that sounds interesting. He didn't tell what he was coming for. Come to New York for the weekend. He thought, you know, to party, you know, whatever it is. And he comes to Crown Heights. What does he know the difference? you know, Manhattan, Brooklyn, same you know which place which stop on the train to get off and he comes and Ley was then I think in learning inhib so kind of quiet they had a shabas he's like where's the party say oh the party's tomorrow the party was the and he comes to the he never saw such a thing in his life hidden and you know and he saw the emised from their faces shining he saw the And it was a fabangan and people were helpful to guest and he gave him a place and he was able to sit. He didn't understand a word obviously not yiddish notes but I forget if he told me this was during the or after the he push burst out of tears. Push was crying just unstopping tears and lady asked him like did you somebody say something to you? did you get impacted by something by like he didn't he didn't think anything really registered he said no I didn't understand a word I didn't understand anything okay so so what's going on he says I saw a human being for the first time in my life that's how he described by anyway so to that he invited to come he said this is what you've been looking for now by the oh one step back I was trying to trace it back to the source so now I want to know okay so how did Levy Barbos and >> Mhm. >> So if I remember correctly, I'm saying things from what I heard conversations. >> Yeah. By the way, uh Ley Garbos might have to come on and correct us, but yeah, go ahead. >> Okay. Okay. I might be I might be mixing it up a little bit, but if I understand correctly, he was reading Yiddish literature and he was very enamored by the he wanted to see the and it was in the books, not not live. So he heard that in New York it's been recreated. So he wants to find the he wants to be in theat. So he comes to the lower east side and he's smoozing with guys and he goes into and there's aid notabid you know with the and he says he wants to come to the so this guy looks at him what am I going to do with this guy so he says you know what do you do when such a person comes to you he suddenly >> no I have to correct you because this note >> wasn't it was yeah he walked into label basiski's store >> no no I'm getting there >> oh okay sorry >> I'm before that >> okay >> how how did he get the label store. This other didn't know what to do with his that doesn't look like he has any ink and he wants to discover. So he sent him to label mistritzki store and when he went to label mistritzky store he sent him to labav and the labavich sent him a fish shabis and I don't know all the details after that but that's how he got exposed to so here you have three people listen to for a moment you have three people that are looking they're searching one is looking for theat which was his way of looking for the another person is looking for humanity uncle you know didn't have the easiest life you know he maybe saw a lot of behemoths on two feet and now He sees humanity. He sees Anushia. He sees men. He sees realness. Tat, you know, Tati is looking for touching the infinite, grabbing aliens somehow. And they're all searching for the emis in their way. And that's what led them to the deba. So what I think when I think about these ideas is that you know we as born labes have to also begin that search and not just begin it because we're already in middle of it but continue the search and that's going to make our much more realm that much more real that we're searching and we're looking to get closer to the and we're achieving that through our connection the as taught by the and the now you asked me to get to my personal memories. Okay, I'll share that a little bit. I don't have any major stories to tell. Like I said, I was young and over the years obviously to many opportunities to be with the rabbining with the rabbins. I still remember as a young child week where we actually had these little things that we had in our ear that you know 770 was always on the top of technology. We went we'd go to the ky and uh pay I think a deposit and get this little transistor thing that uh we would uh Tati would usually listen to the translation. If if I was getting an extra special gift, I would get my own tut listen a little bit. Definitely there and being present and obviously every moment is tire the I always had an interesting thing maybe was a little childish. I wanted everybody to give me attention never happened at least at that point. But I felt like in a way a certain certain of the like I I didn't feel like I was just able to approach the like even when I wanted to I was never comfortable speaking to the like going by when they was giving out dollars for I think the one time that I did say something was that dollars that I was mentioning before my but I had to mention other times I didn't feel com I felt in front of the I was like totally like lost. And I think I managed to say something. I don't think it was that coherent. And the gave me an extra dollar. I think they said or some additional I still remember after that dollar is trying to reconstruct because even after I said something and the responded I couldn't really I was confused as to what the actually said and I was trying to figure it out and you know put on the dollar. I think you know that said this by this dollar and that by the next dollar and I was trying to keep track which dollar was the first and the second but I always had that that like that the should give me a certain personal yas interestingly enough I remember Tati once told me he said that you know after he hears all these stories coming out of people's interactions with they put a lot of times on video my story my encounter like why did I listen to all the instructions of my to just come into and not say anything and just put my title. I should have told the Reb who I am, what's going on, what, you know, a similar idea but you know obviously in more in an adult way and if you can say like you mentioned before Gimas after Gim was and you mentioned that you were you know too young to process it. I was also too young to process it and I don't know if people that were older than me also were necessarily old enough years are not just measured by the password to process and to appreciate and I could say for myself and it's very applicable today to everyone that's possibly listening and taking something from this that my personal relationship I feel took off after in multiple ways. Number one, I do feel that I did get a says famously that when you have a question, something which you want to ask and of you can ask the question, bring it to I have a number of stories when things were really really important to me certain major junctures in my life that I got very direct each time slightly in a different method how how I you know maybe it's a little bit how I felt that that was there but definitely from the point of view you know for sure he's connected but even from my point of view I I I sensed it and I felt it you know and I don't from going to in that direction but definitely something which I could say measurably I could feel a practice in major decisions of my life uh but I think the most important point is something that that goes deeper than the connection to the that defines who I am or how I would like to be and how I'm molding myself based on the that's something which only comes like I mentioned before when you're searching and you're looking you're trying to get closer to the T is showing you that and when you're in the it's not a sug for his it is his way connecting this is the way the is becoming part of your life. This is the way the is molding your viewpoint, molding your decisions in life, molding how you understand everything in life, how you understand, how you how you have in of your children of your in your own personal day-to-day decisions. And that I could say that in some way or another could say that he is changed and molded and shaped out by the being my each detail of my life. That's that's the real personal discuss. Now even the the the direct idea of more personal attention it's interesting just to point out in my years that I do remember it wasn't the user of the wasn't even the ls it was the late mess interesting that the did start doing more often personal encounters with and lengthy discussions but dollars form all those opportunities of a personal moment they call it my moment with the rabbit It's a real thing and you know that's something which I hold tight till today even the pictures that are you know making it permanent. It seems that possibly this is the was almost like looking for ways to create that personal connection in years that there was somewhat of a distance and a a natural feeling of being more of a meal and and and certain year was giving opportunities to connect and the truth is all the years by the way there was a middle of I do remember this too by between the would turn and nod his head and say to individual with direct eye contact connection. I remember the first time that I was processing what was happening. There was I think an old deb staff member that helped me get a particular place and there and I was to them. I'm like how how am I going to know if the is looking at me? There's so many people here. Said don't worry the deb's was looking at you. He's only looking at you. And whenever looked at me, everyone around me, not just myself, everyone around me turned to me. They're like they they felt how the Reb like kind of you know zeroed in on me. Interestingly also after I don't know how many people paid attention to this I don't know if it was as bot but the reb also made a point of scanning the crowd you could also see this yeah the balcony you could see this also on videos many times the rebba would lean forward because basically then everyone was facing m to see the rebba and if you were too close to the rebba you were basically out of the reb's line of vision you had to be a little bit further towards misra because the balcony's higher up and if you're down you're just seeing the wood of the balcony So you had to like push back to be able to see the and those people could like just barely see the but the wasn't really seeing them the would I don't know if it was every time or it definitely happened quite often the would lean forward to scan even those that were not in the big crowd to catch a personal a personal glimpse of them but again that's and I feel the most important I I cherish and I I thank the for every moment that I was big. But honestly, the biggest that I feel I could have and that can have is making himself into the is the deepest personal connection. I'm not just saying this because that's the MS. I'm saying this because for myself personally, this is my MS too and I think it's something that everyone can tap into. Mhm. Um I remember hearing a recording of I heard this many years ago but I heard a recording of um later years I don't know or something like that and he's if I recall correctly what he says is why is the rabbi giving out dollars says the wants wants to wants to know the know the crowd That's so that's you know that was his that was his um you know his insight or whatever his his his perspective of of what what similar to what you're saying. So um yeah um so you're saying that there's an advant that for you personally at least when you were there and being in the atmosphere there's also a matter of years you know if you're younger and older but but um there's a certain that you have and and and learn to appreciate Afa afterwards. That's what you're saying. Okay. So, I guess that's a ha for everyone especially today when we don't have even an option to to to decide how we have to make a connection. But uh it's interesting to hear from someone that uh you know that had sort of uh both both perspectives to a limited extent. Okay. I I and I do remember hearing from you over the years different things a little bit about the atmosphere. you know, you talked after I think you described to me once the uh the running to 770 whenever whenever the beepers went off and things like that. So that's definitely something that I heard from uh you know around the Shabas table from from from you and from from other brothers. So um that definitely I mean that you can't you can't uh that you had that you had that but obviously that there's um wasn't it like a certain point that you like realize that you have to acquire is like like did it happen or it's like over the years that's something that developed >> the point at one particular moment like in a more childish way around my bar mitzvah I started like many and have this you know kite phase around the which is a beautiful thing >> called the mitzvah fever. Yeah, I definitely had that and because I was around the rebba then I have to say from a practical point of view those moments that I had with theb are probably due to that because that strengthened my connection we were living in my then don't forget and I have most of the even though we were not living in khistan because I was keeping in loop and I was still involved and I was making sure I was actually learning at Marstown then they had a little there but I was keeping in touch and making sure that I you know I would go into granite and then I don't remember how I would get back and then stay overnight you know I don't think parents do this with kids anymore just let them you know take a ride a different place but uh because of my of that connection at that time that definitely helped me capture those moments but the idea of of really looking for the MS and looking for my connection to the looking for being who I'm meant to be and being which is really what was I can't really put a date on that. I think that's something which as I grew older and I that became more of who I was what I was looking to be I started realizing that is is the address like the pro says it's going to go to because he's going to give you that those tools to be able to connect. Okay. Um, so let me ask you like this. You're uh you're Mashia in the in the yeshiva in Toronto and in the zo. >> So you are you are although very often means children means you know ch children. So zakim are a little bit uh in between. They're not yet fully developed. So they're still children in that sense. On the other hand, they have certain certain elements of them that are more adult-like. They're older, 17, 18. Um so I don't know if we're the addressing bakim right now, maybe we're addressing Bakim, maybe we're addressing the parents of the Bakim. What would you say are some important either advice or or or or priorities or things that are important or uh for that age group whether it's to the Bakam themselves or to the parents that are the that have Bakim that age or have younger children that will be that age. >> A very good question. I just want to add one more group to the audience. You mentioned the parents and the the and the are also obviously part of the audience and we're all partners and the and everyone himself is and that's the best way to be others. So anything of automatically everyone is in the audience. There's no one that could say he's out of it. Whether somebody doesn't have children any of is applicable to every person starting with himself and the way he's mash others. Uh I would say there's a number of important points I would I could share with you. I'll start with the one which a little bit technical and then maybe we'll if you we could clarify that and then we'll get to the second point a little bit later. First point is something which I think is crucial. I wouldn't really address the themselves. This is more addressed to the and the parents like you mentioned the first year of and you could see a lot of them they have they have in them and they're ready to go to the next level. There are bim that sometimes will come at later stage inhib where they're already done eight years of elementary and three years misa and sometimes the pushet are lacking important basic skills of learning that everything that they've been learning and everything that they're meant to be doing now is built on and when a bak doesn't have that it's very very hard to build it at that age and especially because you need to have the bak to buy into You can't push on the to start memorizing titan and breaking down and practicing with you. Although there are exceptions that I've I've set that up for some there are I don't know the numbers. I didn't make a statistic over here. I'll leave that to the others but there's enough that it's something that should be pointed out. One of the integral components of being aid are theim and whether it's orim these days give us an opportunity to connect with ourim to connect with each other and be better. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the rabbi commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much much more are answered in the new set recently published by Dher. Our days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have the set. Go to.org/ org/our days. Order your set today and start living. >> Every stage of has a certain accomplishment that you're doing right then of davening of learning of but also has let's call it a skill building element which is needed to be taken to the next year and build on that and that builds on the next stage. and they have systems that generally work. But let's face it, the reality is that from basically onward, the Muhammad is talking to a group, the younger younger ages, kindergarten, pre is more one-on-one. I don't know if every is like this, but as far as I know, by and large, once you get to Alf, it's a Mhammed learning with a group. Now there are systems in place to build those skills. They're not just learning a here and a there and a Mishna there. They're they're building their skills in and but not every child will end up getting the skill that he needed at that stage. And here's where the parents uh step in. You know, I'm not going to go into the whole great debate about homework about whether it's beneficial or it's needed or whatever it is. There are there are l and I have an opinion on it but that's not for right now. I'm not going to go into that. But one thing I know for sure if a child is not perfected in the skill that they need to achieve at that part of the year or that kuf of the year that year as a whole and they're going to the next level without that skill you push is setting them up for failure. The mamdom need to be honest with the parents. Don't just you know smooth things over and say everything is good and only focus on the of course when you speak that parent you want to emphasize the mila first and talk about the the qualities of their child and this is not it's not necessarily anything the child did maybe it's harder for him maybe he needs a little bit of a different system zero in on that particular skill that that child needs show the parents what needs to be done if the parent will sit the father will sit with his son for 20 minutes every day and dedicate himself to building that skill there will be paid and he'll make sure that his son is ready for the next stage. He talks about the whole of the he uses ashel of a father teaching that child doesn't use a m of a malam teaching to the child a father's teaching a child and furthermore says the love of the child that the father has and the desire that the child that the father has that the child should be in is learning that's what makes the learning succeed. So therefore when a father is sitting with his son not just to be that he learned with his which is maybe the homework idea but more that the child the father is taking this into his which they were not fully successful in departing to and I'm going to work with my son and make sure that he gets this and I have that for him to succeed that will help him be successful. If a parent says he can't, I think that's usually not 100% true. But if he'll convince himself, okay, so hire a tutor. But we need to have some what they call brutal honesty. And if the Muhammad is not being forthcoming about this, then the parents have to investigate and ask the Muhammad the what then sure most cases will be fine. But you need to make sure that I'm not talking about leaving children back or anything like that. I'm talking about imparting the message that your child will not succeed if he doesn't have this under his belt. Whether it's Could I could I say the MS if I may? If you have a 17-year-old Bak that struggles reading from a reading with what about he's he's he has to read that without he doesn't just have to read it. He has to translate it. He has to understand the flow of ideas. He needs a certain level of mastery of the way the operates. These are things that are skills that do generally get picked up through the system that's in place but not always and it needs to be checked and monitored and you should know the of your son because a child that has the learning skills a has the learning skills chances are he'll be learning. If he's not successful at it and he's frustrated then it's too hard for him. He just gives up. If he has the skills, he'll be learning. And if he's learning, then he has the in. And then he doesn't have the So this is a simple almost technical but crucial message that I think is important that parents and and should pay. You know, I'm not saying no one's paying attention to this, but I think more attention has to be paid to this to ensure that the outcome is. So you're saying that and instead of showing up to PTA and your Rabbi smiling and saying your son's doing great once I gave him a punishment but otherwise he's good and everyone goes home and then they say that is beautifully at the table and then you know that you've done your job. It's it's incumbent on the parents to ask that question every year or every six months or whatever. Is he up to the level that you expect from your Talmid at this stage? And if yes, can he do something about it? if not what can I do about it whether it's by myself or a tutor whatever it is but u just being cognizant and on top of that that and it makes a lot of sense what you're saying at the end of the day when you come to yes is yeshiva and uh with all the other attractions the social aspect you know there's letters from the writes that is not only about learning it's also about the the atmosphere which is which is true but at the end of the day what what are you doing in you're sitting and learning all day and how do you expect someone to do that If they can't learn and if they can't learn and they can't be successful yeshiva then they're bored and then how do you expect them to you're a lot and mentioned that it's a lot easier for someone to not follow the path in in in general if he's just not being succeed if he's not succeeding year after year in yeshiva because he just can't. So uh it's actually very important um and it's also important that the fluency in uh ines is uh probably the most important skill to have periods and that's basically because even if if you lacking the information from the learning but if you have the ability to acquire it on your own then you know half the problem is taken care If you don't even have that ability, you're very very limited. Okay. So that's uh that's like a very important. Um you there's another point you wanted to mention, right? So this no this wasn't liked but this is more of a >> technical >> technical you know skill learning skills issue and I I definitely feel that like you said it's totally other I'm also telling it I heard from me when I was in Ky he said that he he does do a little bit with the statistics and you know as a consultant he said that more most of the time a that's successful at learning and that is not the struggles in in terms of and going to to places we should be. Obviously, there are exceptions, but a lot of times it's I'm not here. Let me find that I could be let me find the guys to hang out with that are going to make me feel I feel like I'm accomplishing because I'm not successful in in the in the so this is crucial not just for learning but fork too like you mentioned and also I wanted to make another uh point to what you said the idea of connecting to the parents is also crucial. I didn't I wasn't thinking about that but now that you mentioned it not just to find out this information but to preempt it and to always keep a connection you shouldn't just wait for there to be a problem always pick up the phone and have a chat with the Mhammed just to touch base and then this is this is crucial it's another reminder like I said the malam is there with a big class and he needs he needs encouragement and reminders to zero in on the details and the individuality of your child and the best way of doing that is maintaining a a a good line of communication with with the malam with obviously when they're getting older it's a little bit different but the idea is still there also in its own way. Yeah. The other point that I wanted to mention is more of a little bit of a more of a little bit goes a little bit deeper. There's a which I would call like a landmark in defining what means in our generation. This is and theb talks there about three ingredients that are needed and I'll try to break it down more or less the way the Reb explains it and then show how this could be applied in a practical level. Number one, a Yid has to have a basic recognition of his ultimate value as a Yid. He's connected to the ibush because of his mus. And that connection to the ibush is the deepest most important part of his life. He cannot imagine life without that in his mind in his heart. He should feel me not with my connection to the I have nothing. I don't have a life. I don't have a life. I'm a nobody. This is who I am. That's an it's more like a liab type of connection. Aid has to feel a connection. I'm Jewish at heart, but in a good way. I feel that connection to the and that's deep part of who I am. That's number one number two is activating that in day-to-day life. If that's true is true because it's true that my connection to the is so deeply part of who I am, let me actualize that in my life. Let me follow the instructions init which practically means follow the in what it says in day-to-day life init that's stage number two stage number three is really getting the mind and the heart of the child of the talmet filling his mind with what I said before until now was more like an identity very deep sense of identity who you are doesn't necessarily mean you learned much about it doesn't necessarily mean you feel much about it it's deeper than processing ideas. But when you're getting to that third stage, here's when you have to fill your mind with your will be completely immersed in that's going to affect your whole of your and that's going to make the whole entire you be through and through penetrated with a connection to the so again stage number one is the basic rec recognition that my identity is that I am a yid before I even expressed it expressing it acting as a number three. My mind and my heart are filled with ideas of yiddish and that defines who I am and how I think and how I breathe and how I and and how I and how I live my life in every sense of the word. So Debba points out like this. This is the this is the this is kind of stating the facts. But here's the way breaks it down I think is very very powerful and the way puts it into today's day and age says like this the first two ingredients were a done deal the the yeshiv did not have to put an emphasis on that obviously it comes up but that's not what they were there for. The family did it, the home did it, the gas did it because Aid was being raised in an environment that was so real to him that he couldn't think otherwise. And obviously the is always there. We're not going to go into that right now. But by osmosis, he got that. Where did the come in the number three? Now that you know you're aid, now that you're living like aid, let me fill up your mind and heart with and let me get this going through every every fiber of your being. That was the way it was am today that this is not this is not what's happening. We have to face the music and realize that has the responsibility to build the child and to build the I'm pretty sure it's the but from head to toe every part of him has to be developed under your care. You have to inculcate on him the basic recognition of him being a kite and the fact that life is not life without it. You have to teach him and of course the third thing filling his mind up with that's the the general whatever says over there. Now the mentions also that even within person that's let's say like myself who's or say someone at any stage that's a little bit more advanced could say to himself look you've been taking taking this idea and accepting this idea that step number one and step number two have to be done by by the but by me that was done in kindergarten that was done prea that was done now I'm teaching him now I'm teaching I'm teaching him of I have to build them up from scratch says no one is freed from this you have to take the full to work on all of these three areas now maybe it's true there's more emphasis at this age for certain ideas but everyone has to be realizing that this is part of what he has to impart what I would say what I would say a simple not so simple But a practical way how this has to be implemented is that whenever we're learning, whenever we're interacting with, it could never just be that I'm teaching you a piece of information. However, that piece of information is and however it is, there has to be that of my of my coming through and not just that I'm saying a class and I'm saying information. Every one of us is a may and in the way that we act in the way that we talk in the way that we convey even deep information there has to come across at the end this I'll give you an example of how the did this with the way I'm framing it at least the tells over it's he wrote it up in a letter but it's he's copying from his from when it actually happened says we were not stopped of if I remember correctly was and he says we had a then with his father to learn together sometimes by night sometimes he'd wake up early and learn with then the sed was they were learning of the my of the of the my children of and they learned it I think it was a Monday the date I remember the date maybe even at the next day the said okay that tomorrow's learning session we're also going to do but the one before was the night I remember and that was a Tuesday I think it was they were learning a in I think it was one of the sons of with it was itself and can learn obviously he's everyone that learns knows and he was like what we would call saying a very deep to him he gives even the structure he would give me before we started learning inside and we learned it inside with deep and with deep and they were learning for two hours straight. I think it was like from 4:30 to 6:30 if I remember correctly learning this in it was says I had a I was enjoying it deeply that were flying in that room were were very deep and it was obviously nick on my face and I sensed that my father also had that that bishmak but at a certain point the stopped and he turned to I think writes that he felt it was a reaction to his you know to his face of the enjoyment of the and he said look said the pill this is a famous but the of saying a little bit differently not so well known the pill used to say that why am I so that I should be able to be taking properly so by me being careful and being in every mitzvah I'm not threatening my my purity my in any way and therefore I'm going to be a to understand is better famous by the way and I say this is not so famous and I say that the whole purpose my deep understanding of is that I should have an in a pimistic in a real way in an eternal way. That's why I'm learning. So if it's just about the and it's just about the and and I got it and I and I'm amazed by it. That's not the how is this going to bring me to and that recognition is what keeps on the right track. And if he knows that that's the most important thing in his life, he's going to make sure that he sees it through. And there's a very interesting story that follows which from the context seems to be an of how when a person is engually he would go to the mikvah later and when he would go he would go with his mash and the caretaker of the mikvah would be notified before when he was This was a mikvah that that would use in the morning. >> This is >> invik. >> Oh, so I'm not sure because it says in the in this letter that they went to the mikvah somewhere else. So I don't know if there were two apartments or this was before he built the mikvah. I don't know that I'll leave for to determine but he went to the mikvah and he said I'm not taking anyone. I'm just going with you. and he they come to the courtyard. So it's clear that it was in a different building. They ring the bell and the sha comes and he opens up for them and he asks to speak to the yid that was the caretaker of the mikvah. The caretaker says, "I didn't expect you now. I didn't know you were going to come now." He says, "Yeah, that's why I came now. I want to come unexpected." Says, "One second just give me a few minutes because I want to straighten things up in the mikvah." Says, "No, no, no. I want to see the mikvah as it is now. That's why he came. He goes into the mikvah and the entry the first room where you come into the mikvah had a smell. You know, it didn't smell good. You know, we know what mikvah could smell like. It didn't smell good in the mikvah itself. I'm sorry. In the room where they would smelled, there was like also like things broken on the floor. It was a mess. The room was the mikvah. He says the water was clean. Interestingly enough, even in this dirty Mika, the water was clean, but over the water was flying bugs and things or in the water, it didn't look that good basically. And continues a quite sharp mus, if you want to call it, to this caretaker of the mikvah. You know the you have that yes, women used to be and they didn't care about what kind of mikah they went into. But today if there's going to be someone that's not going to go to the mikvah because of this etc that come out of this and the opposite the you have maintaining a beautiful mikvah and that people are going to want to use it to never be turned off from the fromb as a result of your actions. Could you imagine how how much that has an impact? >> The rabbis says the story by the way >> and the ending right then I don't I don't think withd so the point is that here here's a message how in the moment of the biggest how you could turn it and show how all of this is all about making more connected fulfilling the how it is and doing it the way it should be. Now that is not something which is only relevant. It could be relevant to anything. You know the the there's a where he says that Muhammad that teaches what does he teach? He teaches olive base phonetics. He's teaching sounds you know are not just in every language of sounds. We have different names for it different shapes for it. But he's teaching teaching sounds. He's teaching he's teaching letters. A real Muhammad has a deep appreciation to the valuable to him. Not only is it valuable to him in him the Brenton that teaches Brenton B. What does that mean? That's not about teaching information. To teach information you need to be a good teacher and hold the class and make sure they memorize it. No, this is not what we're talking about over here at two. But we're talking about and not only in him but when he teaches to the al is it's a burning flaming alf when he teaches the that's a different it's a different base he says the same thing when he teaches if in the that's going to be part of you don't have to say anything he sees it I'll just take a random example something which comes up every Monday and Thursday every Shabbas it's part of maybe it's not part of the curriculum but it happens every Shabbas when the father in we have a big sign we know it's yeah you could tell them you could even demand from and maybe even you know tell them off yeah you you could you could you could teach the technical that would be the just with the second point yeah teach them what to do with The first point recognizing that they're recognizing that connection to the could come through when you're teaching them not to speak their why because what's you know is the whole rich description of would move from their place they wouldn't stand where they were they would walk over to looking at the didn't do this it's interesting the only person I saw in our generation doing this is a from Toronto. All used to do this until he got very old and he wasn't able to move around that much. But I didn't realize why he was doing this until I came across. He would walk over to the would turn. Yeah. You wanted to say something. >> I was about to say what you're saying. >> The Reb would turn and would turn a towards make that movement towards Kadesh. when they would take out the they would look and we know whenever was gazing at the was going towards the bimma was a very intense gaze I remember hearing I forget from which he was being tied's gaze following when she would walk home and he said if you want to get a glimpse of that gaze which was a mixture of deep aa but deep certain like awe of his mother look at how the looks at that's something which is on video something that people later also after were able to relate to that look of and on the they would also point out sometimes to children looking at him look at the so the whole this is something something's happening here once said I think I saw this in mid if you remember correctly that told he said that when you're reading you know what's happening that very same that the very first time said that that's being right now in okay so if you sense that if you if you're aware of this and you get into that mode what is I don't have to tell you not to talk during what do you mean this is like say if you're talking during it's like coming into that palace and trying to push the king out of the palace what are you here for he says it's like an odd upon him he says these words I remember exactly. It's like an upon him trying to be the you had this coming to me and and here the is and you're you're rejecting him. So I'm not saying this to try to you know you know make this didn't come on anybody. trying to say if you could give over to that this is what it means this that you have to keep but but it means your connection to the it's an opportunity it's a taking place when he would said that it says in the he was tears were coming down from his eyes okay I'm not saying that everyone is going to reach that level but recognize that is not just a chore that you have to do it's not just this thing oh I got to do this you know and if you want to be mahad to before you make Shabb's day and whatever it is. No, this is the way you're you're you're preparing yourself to access that. You're saying these words, you're saying it a second time. You're saying the tag and you're bringing it into yourself. This is this is a way and the same thing applies to any there's a way to convey it that it comes across that it's led that it's real that this is part of my connection to the part of my I want to make a suggestion. This is true for for parents from if you want to have a tool to be able to have that for yourself. Like I mentioned, a beautiful tool that's underused is the and the letters of the there's so much in there. By the way, most of what I told you about the tear of is from so much of the tear of what it's how it's really meant to be the way they were the the of of every of a real that's in the pages of the years by the way that start by quoting a with a certain round number of years prior to the and the first were all revolving on that. >> Yeah. The could sometimes take a and dissect the in that uses. Yeah, I have a little bit of a dream. I'm not doing it and it's not trademarked, but if you're doing it, let me know because like this I don't have to do it. Take all the writings of the and to set them up did it a little bit but like she didn't have that much then take it and to set it up in what is we know what a faban is. I guarantee you if you're going to learn the of what is you're going to go to the next differently. If you're going to read the of about the story when you put on the was watching from behind the door and saw the way that kissed his film you're going to take your film pick them up differently tomorrow. If you say but even if you're not even if that's not yet written to go through of that gives you I mentioned before that all successful people I believe in their are born out of looking for searching for the are are a beautiful tool to be a search to be That's just a practical suggestion. I was speaking to recently who has interesting perspective. He he's learned he he didn't go to and I was speaking to him recently. So there was a recently there was about right. So he was telling me his perspective. It's like it's very interesting that I I'm noticing is all about then there's a whole another facet that I'm seeing inad or that I see or I know inad is this and like the the way it is an expression of it he was saying is very much when you have to say the whole I mean this is a big and usually I was relegated to to or you know classically and theb you know famously the said that comes one of the questions is going to be um how many did you bring to make 30 so um it's like an interesting this gu was telling me a perspective that's one of the elements that's demanded of everybody you could you could be the biggest mascul yet it's demanded of you to have a certain And uh Erin skited Timos in uh in a hashem you know and rabbit told um there was this guy um he wrote nine and a half mystics Herbert Winer he was he was a rabbi and I think reformed rabbi and then later he became aided there's a video about dollars telling telling I think the telling him to to let people know about it that he became aid so he has this book nine and a half my miss he's hanging around 770 in the yuds He asked theb um I'm saying this is the right. So he he asked theba I noticed that with your bakim they have a certain like a problem that he's having. It's a certain naivity to them and like what's what's that about? I mean, you know, so the said it's not a it's the he uses and he quotes the I don't know how to translate that exactly. They don't have a um split. They're not split. They have a timos. to have a certain ganskite and a certain um yes I remember was once someone fab when I was a young bak saying when you're out and close your eyes I'm like oh really that's a value you know like like okay so there's a certain uh take it seriously taking it seriously >> you mentioned to him I think it's a very perfect example because you could you could just We're just doing the hard work of saying but printed at the back of >> you look that's exact that's by the way the reb doing my my idea form was not your idea basically. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm joking. I'm joking. that would put the if you read those stories and you read those of you you'll come to a different I remember I was in a show once here in Toronto I live I'm here broadcasting from Toronto I was in a notab show and there was because as well and there's aid you know somehow he's browsing through the the stories in the back of like it like he pettite of of what was going on over there. He was push from it. He wasn't nobody nobody was telling him anything. He was seeing it himself. That's a perfect example where you could take a mid tom from being a chore and being something on a piece of paper that you have to you know you know get a get a quot and you know do a get tickets on your on your hem whatever it may be which is also good things encouraged you know this idea of competition but as >> for sure for sure I don't know about I'm saying but the idea of uh was mainly focusing on mitzvah that's another rant for a different to Hashem was meant to be a global thing for allen together not just for okay again it's a different discussion but the the idea of of of as a as a child gets older what is the power of what does it really mean and I'm not saying you have to have all of the but even if you just have that appreciation of that's in the guarantee you're walking in a in a different >> okay I remember some anecdote when I was a kid I used to go through it but it's I didn't understand so there's the one story in Yiddish that I understood you know with the says I'm only I live to get another another >> yeah I was like >> is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world. 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One more one more thing I wanted to add about this idea of as to convey not just the facts and the information but the ledite and the emiskite of how you live it as they're watching us you know we're doing that's the fact whether it's a mhammed with a mashparent >> yeah apparent I I remember once there was a sim here in Toronto relative of Mishb that was taking place in the and it took place right after this before and the suda was happening then and the were going on to ding because it was I ded before that day I ded with a 6:30 minion 6:45 I came to and like this I was able to participate in the so after the Oh, bagels and locks, whatever they serve over there. I washed. It's between and behind me also washed. So, somebody told him, "I don't understand. You're uh you're washing now like you're eating." He says, "What do you mean just washed?" So, people are watching us. You have to be careful. You know, that's another topic. But when when a when a child when a Talmud sees how seriously and how real your yiddish is that has the deepest impact when I was um at the gathering for I remember what year this was this took place in the hall and one of the speakers was a kit who was a Talmud of his and back in Russia and he said, "I'll tell you how he taught us." He didn't teach us just because he said that the didn't have money and he came that day. You could see that he was push hungry. I think it's he said he was saying he was in like trembling from hunger. Pel bad for him as a child. He gave him a portion or whatever he had that he was eating or and I don't think a Mhammed would typically say yes to that, but he did because he was so hungry. He didn't touch it. He took it and he put it aside. After they finished, they didn't have running water in those days in the buildings. Water they had apparently food. They didn't. He went out and he went to wash because it was aka. So he said that taught me that that's how I learned there's different how much you have to be on. I'm not going to go into that right now of of how to be that he didn't eat it when he was starving until he was able to leave and go and wash and then come back and then eat it. Once a here in Toronto from Cleveland was visiting. He has his children here and there was a big it was the Shabas together with the so they were serving different foods. I forget what it was. I think it was. So they had the fish course was first obviously and uh there was also salad and everyone's eating the fish and the salad and the herring whatever it may be and the right all of a sudden someone comes from the kitchen and says the the salad is a chicken salad the taste like I guess it looked like maybe it was like hearts of palm or something and it's really little pieces of chicken so what happened that means everyone's eating chicken salad with the fish so you know they started taking away from the I was watching then at the moment. As soon as he heard that instinctively, he gathered everything from his mouth. I could see him doing that. He gathered it. He he took something on a napkin. He spit it out and he immediately took something in his mouth and he washed his rinsed his mouth out. Most other people just swallowed what was in their mouth and you know they moved it off. But that was the, you know, you see that it's real. You see that it's something that's it means something to me. It's not just on the book. This is how I live my life. This this this is this is what makes me excited. This is what makes me even Yeah. even even anxious because this is real to me. That's something which we can impart constantly to our children in the way we conduct ourselves in the kite that we face mitzvah and mitzvah and the and the and the we give it something which is conveyed constantly in ways that are more powerful than words. Okay. So um hopefully we can achieve it in ourselves and give that over to our um let me ask you a question back to the learning part. So besides we spoke about the tools to know how to learn but there certain some there's a certain motivation needed there's also some there's different people have different personalities. What if you have a bach that he's wired I mean today we have fancy names for it add ADHD whatever it is but let's say you know at the end of the day there's personalities some people their personality gives them a hard time sitting with a open safer so that needs an extra motivation you know because it doesn't come so naturally so what is is a way to cultivate in our talid and in ourselves um you know a healthy motivation for for for learning. That's a very good question and it doesn't only apply to the or the child that has difficulty learning because as we know the is something which is which means it's a constant challenge even for somebody that has learning and has talent and has learning and has those skills and I'm going to say something which I think applies to everybody and uh I think it's a little bit all inclusive. One general point is never try to whittle away and deflate a motivation. Any motivation that's going to get you to learn has value even if it's not my invention. So yeah, if someone is learning because it says in you have to learn and he's going to have that level of just to put on fill in. He's just going to look at see what it says in if it says I have to learn fine. if I'm a businessman and I had to go work and and even if he's not on that level that he's going to do it in every detail but he knows this is what I have to do is also a good thing that's that's a that's a that's not a that's a but then there's if a person is learning because of peer pressure because of social pressure if a person is learning because he'll feel like you know he's he's not going to be considered to be if he's not you know he's of a loser that's also good if a person thinks of mentioned by the way in right whether it's whether it's whether it's from whether it's a stipend whether it's a recognition all these things should not be deflated because don't forget we are human beings and we have the in us too so when our kids is not in the right mode we could use those motivations and every motivation is therefore useful never to be discarded. Of course, we have to build and go deeper and go higher, but not at the not not not to not to negate any motivation. Any motivation that brings you to do something good, keep it keep it exercised. It's going to come to good use. It's a tool in your toolbox. But a little bit more and I have to be a little bit true to my title that you mentioned before as a learn, but I'm going to say a little bit of my sign. you know, it's based on what we we're all familiar with, which I think is a little bit more of a motivation that could to be more engaged and be more committed, be more dedicated to I mentioned before those three ingredients that mentioned regarding and I want to fall back on that a little bit. If I recognize in a real deep way that my mus is my being and this is what I'm looking for. I'm looking to amplify that mus of who I truly am. I'm going to look for ways to make that happen. So for example, let's say he was by himself a little bit more. It's negate him what wants him to do. This is a thing for him. If I know that I have to fulfill what it says in I cannot physically be if I'm ignoring it that I'm not in my life if this is not not important to me yes then I might not know but if I know this is who I am I know this is how I would like to live I know this is what I want to be and I want to fill myself up with this fully that's my so now my I'm committed to fulfilling the rest of the I want to be I'm not talking about any if I want to be a then I will the automatically become knowledgeable. I don't mean automatically. I don't mean automatically that it's just going to pop into your head because you'll feel one second. I don't know a lot of information that I need to know. I need to know this. I have to know it. If you have to know something because that's nah to your success in life. I need to know it. There's no way that I could succeed without knowing this information. I might have to learn. I may have I might have to learn other from other I will then have questions too. I will have find things that might be not clearly I have that answers my questions. I'll spend time figuring this out. just by being a wanting to live a life with of the um guiding me will so to speak force me to become quite knowledgeable in like so for example sometimes occasionally I go upstairs for breakfast in yeshiva one of the things they serve are cornflakes okay I'm not I'm not saying this as a you know ask your local orthodox rabbi for further guidance but over the years right now they have they're stable with one particular brand but over the years there was different companies that they were buying the cornflakes And depending on how the cornflakes are made, it could be either a hadama or a shahak. If basically they crush the the actual corn into a flake. So it's still basically a whole piece of corn. It's hadama. If they grind it a flour and then produce a paste out of it and then shape out um like out of a dough, they shape out these corn flakes. It's shako. This is according to my understanding, according to what I looked into at the time. And the companies were actually it was different companies were coming into the yeshiva. So now if I turn to and I say okay what is the the cornflakes and he's in the middle of eating the cornflakes and he's thinking I said what did you make on it? Oh I washed. Okay but the other next to you didn't wash. So if you're keeping you have to know what did I make on that? I need to look I need to like learn say the and I need to find a little bit about food production. I will not become a grace but every therefore that truth himself will become eligible. So by extension if it's not just about knowing what to do it's about knowing who I am and who to be that carries over to limit in general. Let me tell you an example. You have an individual that lived through the holocaust as a child. The parents this happened by the way I'm saying it but this happened to more than one person unfortunately parents died were killed by the Nazis. They gave up the child to an orphanage to a monastery to a goa family to a nanny. They were raised they don't have any memory of their parents. They might have been babies when they were given over. They survived the war. and the par the nanny or the the orphanage was kind enough to provide them real information about who their parents are and that they're Jewish and now they're living a life that they're trying to live as a as a human being. We know him unfortunately. But this is different. The this Yasim never met his father. Not only did he not meet his father, he doesn't have any clue of who his father is. Even today, unfortunately, in the story with Sydney, you have a baby that lost a father. But I want to tell you that that child will know their father quite well from friends, family, videos, recordings, stories. Of course, you know, obviously I'm not know this is this is a serious issue, but they're going to have a certain feeling of who their father was, a certain feeling of identity of how they come into the family and how their their continuation is because they have knowledge of that. But imagine this child that doesn't have any family, doesn't have any friends of his parents, is basically a totally separate person from where he came from. You could imagine the feeling of loss and the feeling of like I nobody and he meets somebody that he discovers was one of his father's close friends and this friend starts describing his father. You can imagine how the child will feel. I was uh somebody passed through Toronto. I'm not going to mention names and uh I mentioned him his father passed away when he was a young child and I told him something from his father how his father would dab him. I I I I I repeated the way his father the tune that his father would sing I he was mesmerized. He was pur listening to me like like he was in and this is somebody that not from the Holocaust that didn't doesn't know anything about his father. So but this person who didn't meet his father doesn't know who his father is now meets a friend of his father and the friend is describing who your father was all of a sudden he he discovers my father was was an intelligent person a deep person this is he starts appreciating details this guy brings him the biggest surprise of his life he brings him a little case and he says this is from your father when the war broke out your father put together family possessions, different things and he put them in this and he buried it in the backyard of his house. He showed me where it is and he says, "If I survive, dig it out and if you meet anyone from my family, give it to them. This is yours." And he opens the and he sees his father's work, his father picture of his father. He never saw a picture of his father. Never saw his father before. picture of his father, the the thoughts of his father, the of the of the all of a sudden he has a context. He's coming from somewhere. He's going somewhere going through taking days to read everything through. All of a sudden, he comes to a pamphlet and the pamphlet says to my with your with his name on it. He's reading a journal that his father wrote for him. And his father writes to him how all of this of the family and all of the of the father how this is going to you into the next generation. He talks him about his that he has maybe when he was a little baby recognizing even the potential maybe he was aes you know you could embellish the story if you want it's not a real story anyway but this is the and he's giving him guidance in his life what he can do how he can live his life and the son who's now reading this let's say he's 30 years old he says wow this guy really understood me this is what I went through and now this son will never let go of that notebook he's not going to have to be told that this is something you have to learn and you have to live by. This is what he wants to be. This is what he was looking for his life. This is what he was missing. The is exposing to you the deepest secrets, deepest about who you are, what life is all about, what you could accomplish, where you're coming from, where you're going, what you can accomplish here in the world. When you know that that's what is and you value yourself not you value who you are who you're meant to be you have an and you value your connection to the you have that to get more connected to that and you have that with your name on it it's to you it's you have your portion it's not just is telling you everything is molding the way I think it's molding the way I It's showing me directional life. It's showing me everything. It's showing me how to live, how to breathe, how to think, how to view, how to view everything. So when you have that approach, again, a child maybe is not at that level. And maybe this child of the Holocaust survivor also was not on that level to appreciate when he was seven years old. But as you're getting older and you're the age that you're maturing, think to yourself, what do you want in life? Let let the ems resonate that you're this is who you are. This is what you want to be. This is what you want to be successful at doing at living more correctly. The is that the gave to you to know what life what your life is all about. When you have that, let's call it that again that to connect and you realize that the is your recipe then you're going to have a motivation to learn. Now I'm not saying you're going to use every minute. I'm not saying you're not going to bottle a little bit. You're not going to be somebody why am I doing this? I want to illustrate a little bit further and carry it a little bit closer to my I mentioned before is clearly showing me how to live that the yum from the holocaust had the most important thing I think that he would cherish is this gives me a purpose and a guidance in life he might appreciate deep of his father and the nuances and the words that he chose to use it's amazing but the most important thing I think that he will value is how it shows him how to live and how to be and who he is that I'm not devaluing and but there's a certain beauty about appreciating because it shows me how to live and it's not only this is the mistake >> says >> oh exactly but this is the mistake there's a I'm not challenging any start including that I work in other I'm just saying this as a I'm laying out the facts and you know you could do whatever you want with There is a that have set up there's a first of all when he talks about the limit is mentioned numerous times when you have the clear of how the wants you to act in this world even if it doesn't happen fine but the clarity and the vision of how life have to run according to so of he says of learning and that is framed around >> isn't there also from the similar thing right >> similar there are levels there we'll get that in a second the talks about learning the properly talks about learning the learning which are the that take out the temp from the with the he talks about then going to B I'm sorry then going to the come upon the that corresponds to the you're learning learning it with the B which which is over the including the learning it which is embodying the and then if you have that which will include that's the limit that he describes this is giving clarity on as it dictates how it gives him his guidance in life. talks also about the the main emphasis is on learning learning not just the facts but understanding the behind them which comes from the basic he also calls it keeps on calling it doesn't call it like we call it the let's get the clear let's get the clear let's get the clear in the gim there are deeper levels of learning that he says people that are more advanced but the basic framework work of learning that spells it out. There's also clarity of what the gimmar is saying at the end and how it's embodied doesn't stress the words but you see from as well from from that learned he does kind of discuss similar in he describes his moving through different note and he describes when he came to labavage he said we learned he said we didn't spend time in that we're trying to understand ideas that were not get to be we were trying to get a clarity goes to the same process that I mentioned before of going through going through the and going through and how it's expressed in if it's applicable or if not this idea of limit It's not just understanding of and I'm not taking that away of the is so deep that no matter how many and how many we're going to understand there's even more and there's even deeper but you have to give a tal the feeling that there's a direction you have to give the feeling that this is not just about deep information it's about guidance in life >> but it's not it's not really done in no >> I think it should be done I think it should be done more I think it this path path which should be accessible. I know there are others that are talking about it in public forums. >> By the way, I remember a very a childhood memory. It was a big snowstorm when I was in sixth grade. Not the 1996 one, the next one. Like a historic snowstorm in New York and barely anyone showed up to yeshiva. But since I grew up, you know, across the street from Ala, I was forced to go nak. I remember what my teacher did with the 10, it was Rabbi Adelman was the teacher. What he did, he showed us the sixth graders how to do this. He taught up and he went to and then he all the way down to I remember I remember then being blown away like oh this is possible you can this is the process of of I just remember I don't remember that so much in uh in in Zalda but I remember that from sixth grade that one day >> it's printed in the back of the you know till and the one of the prince of one of the they had on the bottom because it encapsulates everything. Oh, he says learn go to the go to the go all the way down. This is a type of limood which number one is more because not everyone is trying to but it also is a directed lim which is showing showing how it's not just because it's because it's for you and showing you how you have to run how the world has to run how everything is meant to be following the why do you need to learn why can't it be like that the writes in they just And then >> it's a good question and addresses that because you need to have the are part of your appreciation of the if you just have the dry itself. Yes, you know the facts which goes through the back and forth and the gives you the behind that. But when you have those connected to it makes it more focused, more directed and shows you more how this is all for me to appreciate. If I read that I told you in that mshel of the father that he gave to his child if it would only be dos and don'ts I don't know how long it would last. I think it would be harder for the child to appreciate. But if he had a context and he had a and he appreciated where this is all going and what's behind all of this I think the dos and the don'ts will come will come easier and we'll come with with more with that's the purpose of >> and when you go to this is for sure the if you're going to limit and you're not looking for you're not looking to connect to the yeah you could learn it and it's interesting things and it's gishmak there's a lot that that writes in deals with a challenge that people have that they're learning and it doesn't really have a deep effect on them. It's not really to them. It doesn't change them. And he says one of the reasons is I'll tell you why is because when you're learning and you just feelus is interesting and it's like and it's nice that has nothing to do with me. That's not about changing me. But if you learn remember correctly that's still that's going to be a different I want to draw you back to the we started recently the new some people focus on the is huge but most people focus on the versus and how this is going to solve all the problems and make it accessible. I'm talking about before that the way the is in that letter written as a letter listen to these words he's encouraging learning he talks about famously it's Indian the first few days but with the doesn't call it with that's the way he titled it means was saying I'm talking to people mention I'm talking to people that are they're looking for the searching for the and you're listening to me and I'm going to provide you with answers to what you're looking for if you're looking for the has a lot to tell you not if because is addressing everyone we're all looking for the but we have to remember You can't just consider this as a book as a theologian. Now I was sitting next to somebody on the plane. So we struck up a conversation. So they asked me, "What do you do?" I told him, "I teach Jewish theology." That's how I phrased it. But it's not just Jewish theology theology. Maybe if I said the right word, I don't know, somebody will correct me. This is not what it is. It's understanding how I could connect to. It's the book that my father gave me to show me how I could access him. If I learn if I learn in that way that I'm looking for the it's a it's a different thing. >> I was once speaking to someone from Williamsburg and he told me that this in Williamsburg that that happens he had something to do with it is part of it. So I asked him are you are you in the shoot? He's like he says no. So I'm like what you you I asked him you found already like what do you mean not? Like everyone's a we sometimes think that aish is like a weakness you know like it doesn't have to be that you become flowery and you become you know it's very simple. I I realize who I am and I realize what I'm meant to be and I want to get there. Like I mentioned before the story of our father and our uncle and our cousin, they were looking for things. They were looking for he was looking for the he was looking for mention humanity in his life. He was looking for you have to be looking for something. You have to beh but you're not searching on the street. You know see people and they don't know where to go and they don't have the we have the book in our hands. We have the we have the in our hands and if we're makish then we'll be able to access it and we'll be able to appreciate it. So of course you have to be makish. And by the way, the rings true and the brings and so if you're looking and you're looking the truth is accessible and you'll find the truth. So someone that's t looking I believe will get to the and you see I think you see come to come to come to everything everything else is empty. This is this is the real stuff. That's the deepest most real motivation for for me to learn, for you to learn, for anyone to learn. This is my this is my guide book for life. You know, it needs a little bit of I met once lives in my family's connected from the years that we were in the summer in Muny and then when we lived in my so we having a conversation and he says, "You know what? your father has such from his children probably referring to you right no he sees the family that that each one has a others he says I'll tell you why is because your father started with say what do you mean this is a story apparently that that that a father told him at one point that when he first came to the crown heights he was looking for the abush where do you you know, looking for so he was directed to and he wanted to go to the top, you know, who's who's going to tell me the so they directed him to the dean. The dean was a bisel Jacobson and I think he's I think he went to his house if I remember correctly and he knocked on his door and he saw you know also he never saw you know was he was about also and he was blown away thought it was like a malik and he thought he's the guy but he didn't know the words but and he starts asking him questions and he's trying you know conversing in his English and Jacobson has also English yiddish whatever it was so he tells him you want to learn I don't know the words he used but he said you want to learn come back to me in a suit he wasn't dressed you know like a he says and you know some people could have said oh this guy is you know getting concerned about how I look and how I'm dressed he said your father had the toel so there's a certain element of in the beginning but that's there's no question about it and it's not always going to be that it's myish and that's what I'm looking for and I'm not necessarily I'm a vakage like you said and if I am a vakish I don't know where I'm looking I don't know where I'm looking For there is a certain but at the end to keep it going and to make it a lifetime thing and a permanent thing of part of you. You need to access that of who you are. This is the deepest part of who you are. This is the real you. This is what I want to be. This is what how I will live my life. Not just but my from head to toe. I want to be embraced with the and the only way to to to to change your mindset and to take and allow your mindset to be molded by the is that your is in your brain and you're processing it and you're understanding it and you're directing your life accordingly. This is really what it means doesn't just mean that all of a sudden we want something magical to happen. Look at the mashia. Why does want mashiach and said if we're saying that we want because he's saying that we want then that doesn't work because I want to shine in me and to shine in the whole world. That's why I'm sending and that's why I'm encouraging you to say this is my life. This is what I'm here for. So now if I don't have Msiah, I still didn't crack the code. I still didn't get it. I still don't have it. This is everything. You can't be a you can't one mashia and not be a makashem. That's impossible. You could say the word mashia 100 times a day. But if you're not a makishm and you're not doing things in your life to find then then it's it's a it's a word >> and wanting and wanting to spread that to the world. >> Yeah. >> How about isus is that you're passionate about gilus. There's also another component that I'm thinking of a certain like that's kind of related to what you're saying but if especially not this is not specifically for probably not you're in the world in the world generally and I mean in the world it means that you know if you're running a life and you're married and you have children there's always challenges and if you're looking to live through those challenges and live from those challenges in in in the way that and the set it up. You're not going to be able to access it unless you're a person that's tuned in and plugged into the limit on a regular basis. You're not in the right zone. You're not in the right place. So that's just another it's maybe it's even but it's the same I mean that's not it's but if you want if you want to be a Y how do you access it you know there's so many distractions today but uh you have to prioritize it limit that whatever limit and it's it's also so easy today because doesn't have to be only when you are uh sitting and learning in the but it could be all the time you know car driving could listening to positive things and being involved in in you know so that's uh that's hopefully one of the points of this podcast that uh when you're not listening to or you can also have inspiration around the it's about someone once said what's either I'm learning I'm not learning if I'm talking about learning it's >> right exactly listen is part of the for this reason >> used to tell that he once when he was like I would say the equivalent like age based on how he was describing himself and there was a I don't remember I know what his name was his name mind and he had a time that he would finish his learning exactly when their say the would finish and one day he finishes and there's a time left. They thought like you know he miscalculated today. So he finished then he says today because it's whatever the came into the room and the young wasn't like a long but the beginning of was I think it's that also says if I'm not mistaken but this is the how he said it that the two things that's what is taking out the mace the connection to the imbuing that and internalizing that even the time when it was uh set up set up officially for learning >> right >> okay how we believe it's going to bring learning >> okay so hopefully there's going to be says and what's a qual qualification of a but also qualification of what is. So hopefully this discussion will be for us will be in our and for the the shim as well that will benefit from it for this. I want just add one more thing based on what I mentioned before that when you're looking for more of a pimistic motivation it shouldn't be at the expense of other motivations. Look, somebody that's listening to this might say, "Look, I'm not at that point. I'm such a hashm like you're describing." I don't I would I would say not to believe yourself that quickly, but there has to be a cultivation of the basic things. One thing I don't think I mentioned before, which is more short term in your learning in your learning too. That's also I what I'm saying is all the is about by the way. >> Yeah, for sure. For sure. So all these things I anything I said was not meant to be meat from from even reward systems or whatever it may be that's going to motivate a person to learn it was just a little bit more somewhat more cook and I think something which is going to make your learning a lifelong commitment and something that belongs to you rather than something he's doing because of the setting they happen to be in at the moment which is what sometimes think we're learning because they want us to learn and because there's a no no we're facilitating you to be for yourself that's the attitude Okay, none of is holding there, but you want to you want to be able to get there. If you're not going to be work on getting there, it's you're not you're going to be a little bit frustrated. This is this is really a >> Yeah. And you see it, you know, you see um adults that might have gone through a phase that they're not appreciating learning, but then they mature a little bit and they wake up and they realize, wait, I need have and I need if they could take this seriously. So, yeah, the yeshiva is supposed to cultivate that. So you have it automatically or you know how you have the tools but uh anyone with a realizes the value of this and uh the importance of it. I just want to mention one more thing uh I talked about before our parents journey. So uh the the first the before the which you printed I think uh the lion that said in your where it was from >> for for our sisters we I printed it. Yeah >> you got the transcription there. One of the things said transcribe the word for word. One of the things said there is to spread yiddishes kite in a warm and generous way. I want to give you I mean our parents are continuing to do that and I think doing that I think much more than they were doing it whenever first told them those words. So you see the words of the being fulfilled in them is going to the next generation. So you could she's continuing to spread and in this warm and generous way and generous means we're giving it to a lot of people. We're not just keeping this conversation for ourselves but sharing with everyone whatever someone can take out of it and then it's was a worthwhile endeavor if that's what happens. >> Okay. Have a lot of and that's >> okay. Okay. And thank you very much and you should in all of this. >> Amen. Amen.