Ep. 16: What Does the Rebbe Want From Us? with Rabbi Yisrael Deren

The definition of bakar is not whether you were by the rein the definition is how is it not you were by the it's saying over the fra it's not um you know the being is close it's being is close it's p being is close and there is no gashmas other than to the extent the or 770 but it's not even there to be close in in 770 to be close in by the to be close to the you have to be close I'm yasi cayman welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid our vibrant connection with the rebba and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. >> Darren, how are you? >> Barakashem, it's a pleasure and an honor to be here with you. I am looking forward to a wonderful discussion and if the people watching this ultimately get 10% of the enjoyment that they normally get out of an issue over their hair, then it will be an afternoon well spent. >> Okay, very good. And I uh I believe so far people are enjoying it. So is I'm confident that this conversation will only continue that because of Darren is sought out all over the world to speak and it's that I'm right here in Stanford. So any >> it's a that I think is shared at least at a 50 50% level and perhaps even maybe even a bit greater at my end but you know what let's leave that for others to determine. >> Okay so there's many ways we can begin. Um I'm thinking that maybe we should start um you know what let's start let's start from the beginning and move on from there. >> You always start from the beginning. The question is where how you define the beginning. So >> in this case I mean the beginning of your life. >> Okay. So, uh, so we have, uh, So, I know you're you're born in Pittsburgh, right? >> No, actually, I was I was actually born in Davenport, Iowa. The reason my parents lived there, of course, >> my father was a sheh in Davenport, Iowa. And we were there for about a year. Well, after that, I was after I was born. And then we moved to Chicago for a year where my sister was born and then we moved to Pittsburgh where the rest of my youth was >> in Davenport, Iowa. Was that something that um so what year were you born? >> Alf. >> So are they were they living there? Is that something told them to do? >> Is that what's the >> No, one second. They got married actually in Kiss of Tiny and yes it was the FA who my mother wanted my father to sit and learn. My father was uh go and uh >> where's your father from? >> My father is from the Baham. My father was the youngest one of the group of Baham from the yeshiva in Utvatsk Va that escaped first to VNA and then from VNA through Russia to Shanghai where they spent maybe five years actually more than because it was gone until to Shanzai that they got visas the bulk of them got visas to come to America. So my father was that's basically and then from there he was in 770 he learned three years. >> So that's actually a few months ago we published the published an article on the whole story of is actually very popular article not sure exactly if it's the historical aspect or the fact that many mishbah are connected to that story article. So your father became >> So if you take a look at the picture that you had there of all of the Baham together with Ravashkanazi um was a bam sort of on tears. My father is at the very top you could say a kid. >> So how so where where was he from in Poland? >> The name of the town where he grew up was called Vishkov. Well, he was I mean my father's father was Niscarabad by a by the name of who was also from that town who actually went to Tim in Lavich and he came back to Vishka he was >> so he was a pishid they went they went to Labavich >> yes yes >> there weren't so many like there >> not at all not at all he was I don't know if he's the only one certainly not the only He's not the only one because I know Falakan talks about the whole story with Yanka the Yes. >> which is written he writes about it in his in >> Yes. Yes. Um but there weren't a lot. Anyway, so he came back well you know the whole Liberman family that we have today is that's uh grandchildren great grandchildren of course is named for for his grandfather. >> Um >> so somehow he ended up in labage whatever his story is. He ended up I mean he was actually I mean my my grandfather was already probably married already by then when he was incar actually when he came to the first time. So the told him he should not be any hogim >> when he came where >> to the or it was probably the first time maybe he came to the and the told him among other things not to be mishim. So on chabas they have mirrors. So uh my zed would sing these mirrors quietly so the children shouldn't hear because they they don't need this. >> So it's interesting. So so that's I think a lot of the bakim that learned in the in themselves got in this you're saying you have a unique story that your grandfather already I guess considered himself. Yeah, my father was an at >> because >> as a kid I mean as a as a kid he remembers being in the office um and meeting uh seeing and he saw for the first time a a typewriter and was like six seven years old in Poland a typewriter was and and Katchu told him not to touch now he eventually my father eventually married's niece but uh he at the time he didn't know although my mother asked him why he didn't mention to Kaja that he was planning on marrying his niece. >> So he learned invat. >> Yes. No actually my father learned not my father was too young for was the elder. My father was still in the in the in the kit actually also lodge. Um it was uh also the I guess what today would be called a mifa but he would go to I mean he went with his father to to abat for yam >> that's >> so he saw the many times throughout those years >> I you know I don't think many in the sense that we saw the many times I mean the I mean the dharma were all altogether different then and not not anyone can go in But yes, he saw the cafe. >> So he came to America from Shanghai eventually >> and he then he he's still >> see he's he was still he spent those five years the figure that was told to me was on average 18 hours a day of learning learning >> that was all about him. That was him. I didn't I wasn't doing research about all of the buck but the way it was told to me it seemed that >> I mean actually he he the night times he would spend with and he was much older than him but book it and they would sit in the swarim library in the mirha because that's where their swarm were there and they would sit literally the whole night long and learn Um so then he came to America and he's already he's still a Bak he learned in 770 >> 770. Yeah. Yeah. That was during the time of >> Yeah. As a matter of fact, I I once this was I heard from someone else was from. So he said, [Music] >> every had a sh but you know like it was like a >> Mhm. So, and he got married in to your mother here in America. >> Yes. Actually, my mother and her older brother got married a week of each other. A week of each other. It could be that they were all together in by the They went by. >> So your mother and your >> It could be because I'm not sure. I I don't remember. I know that at that the Reb called my mother over to talk to her alone and actually it was she was able to understand there was at the time somebody would be be I think Simpson to translate them. for people who didn't understand it was difficult for the for the Reb to talk to in any case. So he called her over what what exactly he said um something to the effect of [Music] some something along those lines. I don't recall exactly >> but uh so that my mother was a was stuck involve so be a month and a half later. So the freeb said my father should become a >> was involved with the with the to your knowledge >> I I don't I don't know anything to that not to my knowledge no >> okay >> but is not >> so they got so they feel got to become a in Iowa I don't know if you said left Africa. That's where the was. I mean, >> so that seems to be an occupation that many people were being involved with then. We just wrote a whole article about the whole thing about Dublin in Ireland that are doing that. I guess that was uh >> I guess for America where you it's, you know, so you need somebody to sh the animals, >> right? >> Okay. So, but that ultimately was not a long-term thing because they ended up moving. >> No, not they didn't live in in Davenport. My father was a sheh at um Kyamov and the Reb didn't I mean there there was once the wanted to bring him as a rashiva in one of the new yeshivas were opening and uh the Reb said um um >> so the the job basically >> yes it would seem like it because or I mean you know, but that the Reb wanted him to stay there, you know, >> Yeah. >> And so why did he move to Chicago? >> No, there was No, I'm talking Pittsburgh now. No, I mean from from Davenport to Chicago. I I don't know what it what occasioned the the move um from one place to the other. And I I'm not sure, you know, how that went. I can't imagine they would move without asking the reba. >> So they're living living at in Pittsburgh. That's where you >> in Pittsburgh is where my mother of course grew up >> was sent by to start yeshiva in Pittsburgh. Yeah. >> So they they they started yeshiva. But the truth was is that Mal Aline was as a ber yet came to so that you know he was the first one who came there to start gathering kids but as a you know actually as a school and >> it's my understanding that the shist that were started by the you know the all over there was a little bit it wasn't necessarily a long term a lot a lot of the people that stayed in that's what they did long term but they they were in various locations doing Certainly and especially as a bak um you know that you know obviously different conditions necessary for what a baka needs and what's for right needs. So yeah, I mean it was >> I know like I know like uh Groner was was he was in Chicago also >> Chicago and Buffalo and Bridgeport. >> He's not the only one that that a few places >> come out all of them. >> Yeah. >> The only one I know that never moved was my ZA that was that ever sent him tough base and uh >> so Shal Pisner he learned but he came to America early right? M B and Za they became a cross in Kala in in Russia in um >> so she's she's niece >> she my babe is Katcha's sister-in-law who's married to my bab's sister Satan >> okay >> okay in other words labeled Satalin was uh um her father and so her sister was and my brother was Aron laser not laser labeled Satellin and Aron laser was her brother her older brother and she had a sister Sasha who was married to Kacha and my Bubba hasn't come in Russia >> and then my um Bubba had another sister was in Israel so she was able to get a certificate to go to Isisrael and my followed her a couple of months later I believe I I think it was a very long time but it was was a period later and they got married in nisro and they were naris and they were there in pas when the freba came my at the time was a um um my told the rebba I mean what I'm sorry the reb told my to go to America and my bubble went to America America and then saw the again when the came to America the festadic. >> So they follow the essentially >> basically in between but with the both in Israel and in America for the first visit. >> Is there a reason that we know why the sent to America? Well, um when the Reba came to um American Tshin, my Zeda was came to the Reb. They were living in Chicago at the time and my was I think Shamish or something take care of Shulu and Shul and we came to the Reb told him then America and he told him >> he didn't I didn't send you to America to do that and that's when he told him about Pittsburgh. I don't know exactly the timeline that what it was, but that's when it changed. So when when the Fed came to America is when my ZA >> So your mother was your mother was alive when the when the when the Fed came to Israel. >> No, just my two older uncles. >> There's a story that >> when actually my Za the whole time that the freed was in Israel. So my Za just was was with the Reba the whole time. m the whole time. At one point, um I believe it was my uncle or maybe it was my one of the two um was sick babies. So um my papa went with him to her brother-in-law was there. I don't know if she actually went into the rebatcha either brought her in or whatever and M was I don't know exactly where it was at that time but the whole time this was the day before the reb or a couple of days before the reb left when the reb left so okay on the train when came to the so he asked was didn't didn't know anything so if the reb understood what happened and Yes. >> So they But he wasn't around New York ever. >> No. Um I I don't know how often during the Shins Meta came to the Reba. That I don't know. Um but certainly not my mother. Um my uncle my and my uncle were learning in teras. >> Your uncle label >> label. Yeah. >> Were learning in teras kids >> because there was no ish. >> There was no shiva. There were no other place. There was no when [Music] there so they went over right away. today. So your your and your uncle whatever label and z are the first >> no not mid because they were they were young then okay so I don't know what how the how it was with the kit okay what when exactly that started um but you know from from the first of that you know >> but they were raised in America essentially >> not essentially entirely oh they were born in Israel but yeah actually my still has a a um copy of the passport that he had says born in Palestine. >> Yeah. >> An American passport born in Palestine. >> Palestine. >> So, okay. So, let's move on to Dalin. So, you are born in Pittsburgh and you went to So, you attended the school that you say. I attended aim from the time I was I guess two or three whenever kindergarten started a nursery till the end of 8th grade. Yeah. >> And then for forana high school mifa whatever it's called you went to >> then I came to New York to bedford indeed. >> Yeah. Shortly before my permits >> you stayed in a dormatory. >> Stayed in the dormatory. My mother went to Bisankov >> in New York. in New York. This was already high school, but they didn't have a dormatory. So, they had to board with families in Williamsburg to be able to go to Bisankov. When she came, she was the first class where they took even out of town. The place wasn't yet ready for her. The first night she slept on a bench that was thinking, >> but you didn't have to sleep on a bench in Bedford. >> I didn't have to. And Bedford and Dean had a luxurious dormatory right in house was fivestar. So, and um the kids in Bedford and Dean the Bahim they were mainly they were labe kids or >> actually no I mean I'm not going to give you percentages but there were quite a few non-libature kids in in even in high school inta you know certainly in in in the younger grades that were came from um non labavage families. So how did it work? Because I like Rebel was was taught you. >> Reel taught us. >> So he taught the nalib kids also. How does that work? >> There there was Yeah. Yeah. >> So everyone had to speak Yiddish. Everyone >> or understood Yiddish. Remember these these kids were already I mean mostly children of course of survivors. Okay. So, in that the houses were were houses where Yiddish was spoken. Um, they knew Yiddish at least as well as I did. I mean, >> right. Cuz you >> I I heard Yiddish in the house, but I didn't speak Yiddish. I mean, it wasn't a >> Your father didn't speak to you in Yiddish. >> I definitely answered him in English. And >> because your mother also is American, right? >> Yes. My mother spoke to us in English and uh my father Bal didn't speak a lot. My father used to sit learn uh and even when he spoke he spoke you know very uh I from my father the only time I really heard at length stories from my father would be um after the seder pes after the seder you know in the beginning I thought maybe it's the arbacis but then I realized no it was so What would he tell you >> about how he was who grew up in my sister and how he wasn't when he was a kid and then you know >> so you're in and so you have you have >> Rabiel was um would teach those days. So there were not misa raiel would teach I believe it was already the what was considered um yeah the there was taught then also but from the I don't even recall you know the the first one yeah taught then also I mean um and one or two others the the regular um sedus that was at night what taught that was not even zal because okay that would be after evening okay from what 8 to 9:30 or whatever I like to say it is now so rael would teach the younger ka from twice a week and the older ka three times a week he would give a share >> and he He also for for >> he used to bring you to that was the fabbran. I mean would be not but like if I bring in you know adak that was twice twice I said >> but I hear from other people like taught them and is that time or that >> first of all taught us I mean to to sit twice a week and sit three times a week and get a share I mean yeah I've learned okay I learned most actually was different That's what he he taught us one year one certain that you know. So yeah we learned that then of course in 770 I mean we just give short episodes. >> Mhm. And what was the um when you were a kid in I'm going backwards. When you were a kid >> in Pittsburgh >> in Pittsburgh, your father would bring you to the often or not often or what was the >> My father used to go always I don't remember whether you taught yes or no as a Okay. So you he would take you >> so he would take me. However, the first two years I remember the first year was probably I was nine or whatever that I was going to go to the so I was so excited I got sick. The second year so I ended up the first time I went to I think I was already 11. >> What year is that? >> So it would have been so you saw the >> I saw the Yeah. >> And you're 11 years old, so you're ready with the with the program. You could be there the whole time. So you remember Hakus from from Tashal? >> Yeah. >> Were there a lot of kids there? >> I wasn't counting the kids. I you know it was it was not I didn't I didn't see the kids. I I >> But you remember you remember the teaching? Well, something >> I remember the Reb standing on something and teaching. I think the Reb stood by his he stood by his fbring in place but he didn't sat down at all then okay it would because it was just giving mashk and then the niggan and giving mashk >> like the he people describe it was on a milk crate or on a table on a bench I >> but I saw I'm quite sure it was standing on his by his fbring place >> on the floor on the floor >> there was no on his finger place where sit there but then stand stood on a on what on on >> on the platform the sit by the fab on a platform. So on top of that platform >> yeah it's you know again I could be making a mistake you know I'm not gonna because actually one time in my mind I was picturing the standing on a uh box on a milk crate but then I realized it was because of a picture that I had seen a picture I mean a drawing that I had seen that was just fun then I was like tried to focus did you really see that no I didn't remember I didn't So, what was it like as a as a kid to to come to the Reb? >> The first time I came to the Reba was actually a school trip like the eighth grade was going to the it was a school trip. It was um I believe for Purim. >> So, the first time you saw the Reb when you were 13? The first time I saw the reb first time I saw the reb well I saw as a child but I don't remember. The first time I saw was tankai I was by the fabbrangan pur shai. No no no I don't remember much about the fabbrangan. Okay I remember it was a pink the hall the paint was pink. I remember there's a lot of mirrors there. Um honestly okay I was towards the end I actually went into the Ezra Noshim and I was sitting on my aunt's lap. Okay. That that uh what I remember I was seven years old. Um and yes I there were kids I remember also >> but it you were seven years old in eighth grade. >> No >> tell me a different story before >> that I was um it could be that was at that time. Yeah. No this was earlier. It was also a class. Um but no I went because there are certain advantages to having not a lot but having your mother as the principal I mean it's a um generally it was a down thing because you know obviously you got no favors but to go to the reba that was something and then we were by one year also a class trip was by and we also went in the next day to the class and thereby I remember the Reb speaking in English to the class. I can't tell you that I remember what the Reb said, but I was astonished. Why would the Reb talk in English? You know, this I mean it's so but uh so those were two times that I, you know, >> was that a common thing that that they would make a trip from Pittsburgh >> I think it was every year. I'm pretty sure I remember that I remember afterwards, you know, that all of the eighth graders had to was an assembly with all the eighth graders to tell over what was uh what was um you know what what the experience was like and then I I asked I was asked to say you know what what was the most you know impactful I don't recall the words that were used took it. But but what you saw, what was the thing that made the biggest impression on you? And I said, seeing the Reb cry was by the Fabang. So the kids in the school obviously did not begin to understand what I was talking about. You know, it was like they didn't but but I and actually I remember that dialogue probably because they didn't understand and I was thinking so why did I say it but you know it's like the crying is not like us crying but >> you're saying you had a word for yeah >> I I you know I did wouldn't define it as such but yes in retrospect You must say that I mean >> it also probably has to do with your upbringing and who your parents were and Za was no >> I probably had something to do with I doubt it was because of the I learned to the burim that I had read. >> Did you hear from your za or your parents these type of things or didn't talk about things like we do today? Honestly, I would hear more stories about than about and you know later when I came to yeshiva and I started hearing all of these mices and and why why didn't my parents tell me these stories I mean they obviously knew them in I was like what's because my parents weren't trying to raise they were trying to raise aid so the stories they told were stories of um >> there's something from the about that I forgot who it was The Reb told somebody to say I forgot who it was to. Theb told someone to say stories of because it's relatable. I'm saying it's something that you can achieve to >> that's for it's not to say they didn't tell stories of but but you know the there was unusual ah story about the rabb was like >> Mhm. Okay. So back to bed forine. So once you're Bedford and Dean, you're by the how often like in Shabas Mik. >> Yeah. No. Um Shab every Shabas. I mean Shabas was in um even though it was Bedford but we're never in yeshiva on the weekends. >> Where was the dormatory? >> The dormatory was in Bedford and Shabas we used to be by families in Crown Heights. >> So you had the same family. >> Well the first two years I stayed by Almashim because had been in Pittsburgh because we were very close. So that that and then the next two years. Yeah. Families of >> Tom Shim was on East Parkway the whole time. >> Actually at the time he was living on No, he was living on Lincoln Street like opposite opposite the other side of 763. >> So you're 14 15 and that's like you did every the whole the whole time you have a place like >> Yep. Um my head place was it was like near the arankes. Um remember this was the small sh. So the arkadesh was you know >> this is the first sh downstairs. >> The first sh downstairs. Yeah. The first fabangan that I remember more of a lot of wasp fabangan that was already that was still in the shalash and I remember getting getting wet from the somebody pushing up as I was coming in pushing up the the tarp and this and that >> that fabbrangan I stood near my zeda who stood on uh like next to where Rashag used to sit behind Rashag. And at one point at one point the Reb called me over and he gave me a piece of misanas and he told me told me to make while I was standing there. >> This is your >> This is when you were a kid though. >> Yeah, I was so called you over. >> Yeah, I wasn't far. I mean I yeah I said so the reba I don't remember how the I mean how the reba motioned me but to come over >> that's unusual know >> I would think so again I wasn't there so often to know how usual it was >> anything like that when you were bak back >> in the middle of a call me over and give me no something >> it happened when I was but not not when I was a bak So you're ba you're part of the part of the crowd. >> I was working to become part of the crowd. I can't even say that I was part of the crowd. I was like it took a long while until I stood by a fabbran and actually for the most part understood something of the fabbran. Okay. Um the the the first I'm not going to tell you how many years, but to be able to understand more than a couple of sentences was uh and yes I I was very envious of those bim that did understand and and could understand. >> So you had friends that were able is it because they had more exposure from before or I don't know >> because they were >> you're not talking about the language. You're talking about >> No, no, no. I'm talking I'm talking about the understanding. probably because they were midish because they were bigger masid and because they were you know >> Mhm. >> but eventually so while but while you're learning in bed in at some point you already were able to pick up and be part of it and understand >> I remember the first that the Reb said that I understood from the beginning till the end. I know the the the Shila the Hezb the terrets and the it was I don't know if it was in in B or was in and I've looked for the and haven't been able yet to find it but it's like I I just and talking about the question the child asked was why you know Why why the first um mitzvah is about that we're that why it's um we we have a lunar calendar not a solar calendar and there was masper the difference between a lunar and a solar is the lunar is constantly changing and the sun is a constant doesn't change unchanging and goes up. But if you're going up, sometimes you fall. And when you fall, you could think that that the moon even after it falls, it comes back and it comes back more each time. I remember that not being able to certainly at the time not understanding that when he comes back more but and you know that a person should know that uh needs the first thing aid needs to know is that even if he falls for fallen you know you can it's it's like almost part of part of living is sometimes falling and knowing that you can pick yourself up and go higher and higher and higher and I I don't remember at the time what disaster I had was facing or had just had or whatever. I I failed the test. It was I knew I was going to f but I was like in a state of mind of that my life is over already. You know was 14 years old or 15 whatever it was and already you know it's finished and I remember standing there and thinking to myself wow I do have a life left. You know, it was I remember walking home from why I think that it was precious bay because I remember I'm pretty sure it was uh one of those fabangans were shabas um and because I remember walking home at night with and seeing the reason why it's probably not and looking up and wow yeah I still have a life ahead of claim failing a test. >> No, no. My problem was that I didn't realize how much of the sinite but yes definitely they never thought of it as a >> is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world a world where for us We do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. Yet we know that the is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it. Provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. 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You can be part of through your financial support as well through visiting our website.org or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. So, you're already so you're experiencing a buck the effect of what you're hearing from the it's special. I don't know if um I don't know as many adults >> you know in those days we didn't even think of ourselves you know I don't know I can I think think of myself not of ourselves but it's okay we were kids I mean you're a kid you're not a you know in my head at least in any case you want to be a ber you it's you got to imitate bim you have to but you knew you wanted to imitate bakim and you knew this is possible if you want to be a a but definitely you know is imitates okay it's you know until you become a if you're going to do that imitating so worse things >> and in those years the your age had for their birthday right you had >> I did Yeah. Yeah. Um and um without going into the entire story because it's it's it's um >> some people say some people say this is a fab. >> I understand. Okay. Um but as long as this is iced tea and not mashka, it's going to be a podcast. No one has to know. >> Uh with the Reb to be able to gave me a very um difficult job basically that I should undertake bet under. This was an answer in writing. Sob said to me underlined twice underlined once to make up to deter with with great determination to learn with intense effort and constant And it was like, can I say I'm going to >> This was an answer on a question that you had, >> right? Yes. >> And this is like a >> Yes. >> That gave you. >> Yep. And I uh it was like, you know, I couldn't, but I knew I had to. And I asked again, and the Reba said, "I answered you already." like are you going to do it or not? I I remember the feelings at the time. It was so the first I answered you already like but this was almost a year ago. How does the Reb like you know honestly I wasn't even sure if the Reb knew who I was at that age and but the Reb is telling me exactly you know I told you already why why are you asking me again and there was vested are you going to do it or not I'm but why are you asking again you're the one that has to answer not me and there was looking down and waiting for me to answer yes or no. >> So the first time was the second time and the Reb is looking down and he's waiting for me to answer and I was like I stood there it it felt like two hours. I mean I didn't to talk to the Reb to answer a question like this. I mean, it was like and until finally I was with my last kas almost I I managed almost imperceptibly to nod my head just uh like what and there's looking down and and as soon as I like moved my head a drop there looked up I don't know if it was with a smile I don't remember a smile but I do remember it was like upon him like you know a And he said to me, "If you'll just remember that you promised me, you'll certainly be able to do it." And at that point, it was like the Reb is making a deal with me. Like, who am I? And the Reb is now saying there there's like a we have a a transaction going on here. I you promised me and I'll give you you'll be able to do it. That that promise is going to make make you able to do it. Now what what does it mean? Why would the promise make me able to do it? Because the knowledge that and here's where the Reb is investing in this partnership. No, with the knowledge that if I don't do it the Reb will be disappointed and if I do do it the Reb will be happy. In other words, the Reb is saying you are now someone who's important to me and I couldn't like me I I don't remember how I I I don't remember nothing else what said. I don't remember how I left the room. I I just I was so I guess you might say I've said it before that that's when I began to understand that the definition of aid is not someone who believes in ab you don't have to be aid to believe in okay you have to wear a brains aid is somebody who recognizes that the Reb believes in them and he acts on that belief and that's um No, I'm not going to answer your question. Did I or didn't I? But >> that's irrelevant. But this feeling you had then were you describing you like this >> that was right that oh becoming a no it's already you know as it developed at the time I just like from that point on my I I realized that my relationship with is not a theoretical one and it's not a communal one it's a personal one it's a personal relationship that is and and everything that followed It was based on that feeling understanding recognition that a aid is not one of a is aid a reb is not a ofid of he is all of that but he's my rebba and I owe him He gives me but I owe him and uh I owe my reason. Interesting. So the so this was a important uh point in that uh >> I I you know I uh it was a a paradigm shift let me call it that to the extent that 14 or 15 year olds have paradigms but Certainly it's the one with which I I try to live. Okay. So let's continue with this uh now that we have that in mind so we understand you know your the way you're viewing things then we can continue. Um ultimately I believe that uh so you've been for >> so for four years I'm sorry six years actually not it was five because I skipped a grade I skipped two grades I skipped two words so I was there four years and then from there we went to Newark which is today Morristown but that wasn't work >> that was the S then >> yeah so it's certainly from Bford is the next >> because you're too young for S7 >> yeah so was two years in New York but it was >> actually the first year so there Mashk um and then after um two years in Newark I guess I was afraid of 770 you know in terms of learning that was just I I'm not going to defend the defend the uh decision although of course asked that but there was like without I didn't get an ambiguous a sensor. I got a very >> What did you ask? >> If I should go there to learn. >> So you're saying you're not going to defend it. >> Maybe I shouldn't but I actually went away from that for two years. Okay. I instead of spending the next two years in 770 I spent the next two years. >> So in hindsight you I you know people say hindsight is always 2020. I don't necessarily feel that way. Um yeah, in in hindsight, I regret not being by all those fabricants. Um in hindsight, how do I know that I would have actually been the Bak I should have been in 770 with all of the temptations for being, you know, wasting time that that exists there and that I didn't necessarily have well I didn't have those type of temptations. I hope that uh because of that I was able to learn but uh it was uh so I'm not going to say I I I regret part of it. I don't regret the decision and I I was in before I went there to after Yam I was in but it was right before I went and said to the said to me remember you're not going to you're going to be there's options you just ask if you should So >> opportunity. >> Yeah. Oh, you were both okay. So you went there. So this is >> So this is post. No. is still there. >> Yeah, >> I would say if I have a near and I'm not going to say I have a new but to the extent that I may have some shim because of >> so what was happening what was going on there. What was their um not like when you saw that saw the they were like your your speed or they were like they're from a different world? >> Um there were those that were my speeds and they were different you grew up for for years. you know what's going on like that. >> You know, I'm going to give you a a h that I think is very important to understand. I am firmly of the opinion that the bakim today are far better than the bakim in my time and the bim up until other words the bim post gimlas in a call are far things that we strived for by them seems second nature almost and the reason that you know of obviously it's counterintuitive you know they grew up they didn't see the reba they went by the reb some of their parents went by the reb you know and and and never by if I bring never never by dollars never never by and yet and and you would think and certainly that's what we thought on on that it's over you know if you don't have you don't you're not by the certainly by not by the or even answers so how can you be be and give a cook and then even more than before. Why is it and there's no such thing as a a rule without an exception or even many exception but as a rule when I was a in our time before tional the definition of began with he's not going to miss he's not going to miss even a ding if it's possible. Certainly not or and later these are like and the more that that that I'm talking more that more that kid was attached to that okay to to running for on a weekday. Because how can I miss? Okay, even you know to run away from holy because there's going to be a even though you can hear the oil too but haste you know it's like out maybe there's going to be a that's problem of course is what was he thinking about what was he thinking about the and what kind of the only one that knew that was the no one That did not go into the equation of how others define that. Today you don't have any of that. So the definition of is not whether he was by the definition of how was he not you were by the it's saying over the fab. It's not um you know the being is close it's being bu is close it's pion being is close and there is no gashmas other than to the extent the or 770 but it's not even there to be close in in to be close in by the to be close to the you have to be close and you know it. You you can't fool yourself into thinking just because I came to the what what are you what are you thinking about it? You know that. So automatically it becomes a a an entire and of course was haste the not to long for the days of the fbrang. But that longing part of that longing is because then it's so much easier. I just got to show up to the fang and I did it today. I can't just show up to the video. I have to actually listen and understand that are over and live by it which is a whole different uh area. They relate very much to what you're saying. Um you know in my times I was a ban not so long ago over a decade ago but the big scheme of things is not so long ago. >> You're one of the bak I'm talking about. >> Okay. Um it's interesting that I noticed that like you're saying that you could have had a very especially in the later years that might have been but didn't understand it wasn't can't tell you what the said and when I was if you're if you watch the you have to be able to repeat it to your friend and talk about it in order you weren't you you don't go to a video >> to say I was by the video. >> Okay. I mean the only reason you go to the video is to listen to understand and okay to the extent that now you live by okay that's where things become a little bit more difficult a lot more difficult and a bit more complicated. I mean, you know, it's like, >> so it's a lot harder. >> Of course. Of course. >> Of course. Oh, up until the part. Up until the Okay. Because if you by the faban and just stood there, then the are not going to be on your head in the same way that when you were by the faban that you were listening to and that you were and and and and internalizing. Okay. Then you know when you walk away from that, you are going to be acting differently. There's no getting away from it. Okay. Was easier before? Oh, >> now it's easier. >> Why? It's easier. I don't mean that the actual work is easier, but easier to make to to actually do the work. >> I think I think the the goal today is the gal part is like you know the mikdash everyone came just to show up. And I think the goal today, you know, post is for when you access it. It's a lot deeper. But you have to it's not it's not as accessible just just showing up. You can't just show up if you just walk into a like those in the last that gave that that of the fact that is behav Okay. In a beautiful world with easy that helps you into all those things from the golus. Okay. That causes of of golus the idea of golas. Okay. We're not even in we don't feel exiled per semis. Okay. I mean anybody who wants it can go to Israel. But the goal that we're in that golus that causes is bigger even than the causes of the of that where was even those aren't words that we heard before Gimble Thomas or for before Gimble Thomas those were the last mishes the end of the mimer it's it's it's that part of the mime there's no question but that's why it's the why why is is not just nice words put together. It's that is and and and that's exactly what is saying. Okay, this this we're in right now that's the question that was that was that's the highest type of okay sounds like a plan. So back to you got into this we had mentioned about the >> ah so now we come to the and you ask me who's the same kind so no they didn't know what the said last week okay or even two weeks ago and they they didn't know what's going on in 77 they're like I know what's going on seven they were certainly never in they were never many of them most of them the vast majority majority of them but it wasn't by they lived but their living was actually a more pimistic living okay because it was living the doing acting on the okay was more a Indian that is um everybody went and everybody did and it was like scalp in those days was basically film okay but much more than much much more than the bak that was sitting by the biggest kher to theb okay time was the cash to the rabbi was the thing you know you do this with the this out there also went to this. Okay. But with Mr. T. >> It's interesting. So you saw like a deeper whatever different types of >> Am I telling you that that's exactly the way I processed it at the time? I doubt it. Um, but I mean certainly subconsciously that was I looked at them as I mean certainly not less than me and for the most part more than me. >> Okay. Um maybe you could tell me a little bit about the >> I can tell you that the once said discussing the what can I do I only want to be able to send I can't send all the okay so like I'm everything else is not that. Now, you could see lived the Bah. the Bah were his life and he he knew every Bah and he he but it was I mean that that okay that one of one of the things he said clogged okay so in the hospital and he wasn't uh uh it wasn't they had to sit up you know so they had like a couple of pillows behind them so you should be able to do a couple and said like so many years I didn't sleep on a pillow scuffier so now they give you like look look what happened to me it was like you know that that that kind of he didn't make this announcement this is that he's a lovely to someone but you know to even have such a mus and he uh I obviously I heard this coffee before that's most but I mean obviously okay but what what that even looks like but um once table and there was a bottle of soda on the table and didn't take it and he made made him drink the soda okay so it's like that as as a okay you that you authentically not it should be a once was being met that he'd seen maybe it was pap I don't know what he saw but a ber eating a sandwich and he's retired how like what's he upset about that his mouth can't open wide enough to be able to push the whole sandwich in at the same time and he has and the way he was mentioned it like it was the element could catch it but I have to tell you I didn't stop eating sandwiches but I don't have the same feel for a sandwich when I eat it there's always that you know little like what are you doing >> goat interesting but you never heard this >> no honestly I mean, I never heard anything from that would in the slightest way um imply that it was not important or not of of okay, it wasn't there was no quote and negative towards but that wasn't what was um was the rebel was the The rebel is the honesty. Okay. Rebel is authent authenticity is not which is you know it's like it's easy to act like you have a scafia when you don't. That's the downside of scafia. In other words, you can push something away. I heard from a male one time. He said like this. He said you have two baka they're the same is yeshiva. One bak says it's a good the other and the same is the same the same it's a bad how is it possible? So it's very possible there two of them are sitting opposite each other by supper and one of them it is not eating half the food on the plate because not good food the other side is sitting in bak and he doesn't eat half the food on his plate because he's probably very much like the e see the other so he looks over and sees that this buck is probably miscio wants other this was looking over there and says he also doesn't like the food. Okay, this is a lousy place. You know, not only my growth, but everybody's grow. So, you know, it's like it but the actions don't actually show what's happening. Um, and is not somebody who lives my father-in-law when he was a he said he shouldn't say, but I heard it from him, not from others. Okay. So, I'll say it. So, come once to 7:70 early in the morning. those days there was no planes. of those have planes, but you didn't go on a plane. And um so he's sitting on a train the whole night and then and then a subway 7 day and he comes into 7 7:30 in the morning and my he's not there is not there. is not sitting and learning there >> comes into someone say he's probably still in walk down the street there was a corner of Troy I think whatever walks in he's doing what does you know when when you go to sleep late okay he says and he says to sign there what's could be with you and was looking for the worst thing you could say is you'll grow up to be a if you don't this was this kind of behavior there's nothing worse than that and it's not just that this is what my s felt he was talking to his about in a way that he wanted him to understand how terrible it So, so at least I'll come upon him from from one perspective or another my should have been able to relate to that because that's what you're supposed to be. Okay. And if you're not >> and okay also used to talk about >> she like to talk about it. It's not just talk about it. First of all, he's used to that's the question about you know but it was um Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I I remember I was there one year and I I remember comes in by night for and he sits down to Mar and he was crying crying for hours. And if I would have seen somebody like that in 770, I mean got something like that in 77 towels thrown at you. And here it was it was it was normal in others. I know it wasn't normal that you saw a lot of it, but the the presumption was not difficult to make that he's for real. I don't know what goes on in anybody's heart barely my own but but that was the atmosphere there was an atmosphere where you know some crying for hours but on the other hand every night it's Russia the first night of Russia but but you know the notion to davin he would talk about you know how it's difficult he he he dabs longer just during the week and then he comes downstairs and there's no more breakfast left. You know, he's left there. That that's like it's a double thing. Sai is feeling bad for the poker. He has no breakfast and he's also feeling upset that all of the other brim had a good breakfast. Why? Because they didn't die with societ. They didn't die when they ate a good breakfast. It was that was the the atmosphere. Everybody d But um the ding was in the air. Domin was part of the curriculum. It was a major part of the curriculum major part of the program. Let me say it's hard to make a curriculum for ding other than just learn. Um, Hebrew there was a Those that live in my days know today was more than he was then. And he used it and sent over to their main but you know it's like later you know spoken >> yeah how do I hear it I mean obviously but more than once maybe didn't when the buffer was actually there. Um or I I remember once when they did when the buck was there and how the buck was like so you know I can't imagine I want to make but uh depends it was a that the obviously showing the tire that it has by and this was still the days when there was not unusual to have that undercurrent of but was not He never came to say the >> guys at the speak about it I wasn't a deadly thing but it was certainly there were many you know for that reason you know never addressed it was like >> yes you know either you by a fangor you know you know himself you know only after came out okay and you see the letters okay well you don't see letters although some of them now we do have okay but the letters to him how there no you can't come no you can't come no you can't come and that to be able to come and the Reb didn't let him and never a word he never defended himself never defended himself and I heard from when he came and afterwards >> and then said that was the three >> and was apparently talking very strong words of the of the that night. You there? >> No. >> I heard about it then. >> Yep. >> But where were you? You >> I was in >> Oh, you were in here. >> Okay. >> That I can't like get over. >> You can't get over there. You missed it. >> Yes. >> Did you go Did you stay there for two years or you came back? >> No, I did not come back. >> You came for two You were there two years straight? >> A year and a half. Yeah. But yeah, >> didn't have money. I mean, it was like plain and simple was the I I my parents didn't have money. It was >> okay. So we got one full regret that you they missed your >> more than one but yes that is a definite >> one of the integral components of being aid are the whether it's orim these days give us an opportunity to connect with our to connect with each other and be better what is the story behind each of these days. How did the Reb commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much much more are answered in the new set recently published by the Our Days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story meaning and practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have this set. Go to.org/ org/our days. Order your set today and start living. >> So after a year and a half, so you decided to go back to 770 as what was that? Well, first of all, was there um >> while you were there? >> Yeah. >> I think either Lmer can't come on a Friday, right? Yeah. So, I came back77. Actually, my sister was getting married then also. You ask them about it. >> Yeah, of course. >> Okay. You wouldn't get on an airplane to go to or from those days without asking them first or over over the ocean. It's not a of course it was to come back to um actually it was I didn't know it at the time. It was actually to uh to get married. >> So your sister was getting married, >> right? That was the ostensible reason. >> So then you wanted to move over to Sanser the same same thing. >> Yes. >> And you're saying that that ended up becoming a case. So the tale what happened? >> What happened was I met my future wife. >> So what happened? Um there was there was such a shak was proposed and the pushed it very strongly. What do you mean pushed it that uh should happen as quickly as possible. >> So can you elaborate what happened? >> Yes. The first time it was proposed I was told who proposed who proposed >> I don't remember exactly who was the first one to but it was brought to the was very much in favor of it and to the point that they should send somebody to or find somebody that could talk to me and asked me if I wanted to. So while you were >> at the age of 19. >> Yeah. 19. Yeah. Sending who did that tell us to >> probably my parents I imagine my parents >> to send someone to so that was pushing for the Yeah. And I uh so it was actually my aunt who was so she asked me if I wanted to get married. So I thought she was like it was very clear that it should actually coming from him. >> Yeah. Shouldn't just to ask the question I like. So I I I gave the answer you know like not no grace olive but no ma question are you out of your mind? I'm 19 years old. No I don't want to get married. >> It wasn't common to get married early then. No, no, I didn't know anyone who would get married that early >> anyways. No, I just answer was no one that was but now that I was coming back. So that would brought it up again and brought up the >> not to me to my parents and and my mother said to learn so I'm 20 but I never like this with his handle learn that's not a reason so I have a question. This has something to do with you something to do with your wife. Do you know do you understand any understanding? Do you understand what was >> I taken? I have no understanding whatsoever of why other than while it was too early I I cannot I I do understand from a very very balatish perspective which was while I may have been far younger than the common age my wife was not younger than the common age my wife was already in the age of the same age as you >> she is a little bit younger than me lesson and self 19 years old is very common that so I guess wanted so that's why there's no reason to wait >> so you didn't really learn um I did manage to get at least a little bit that you know so we don't have to make the right away So I got to push the off till this was sush off I go to push off and so I try to >> you as this thing but I said it before I don't remember if I as if my my parents asked I I do remember So that that was the >> So when you but by the time you went out so since I was learning so there was no one learning that so I I asked her just to sit with my and he learns there >> but so by the time you met your wife like for >> Yeah. You obviously knew her before because she's your relative but you knew then that the Reb was pushing it. Um not I only I knew that the knew of it. I did not know that there was and I assume that I didn't hear exactly I've never asked my parents for something like that but my assumption is that even then the didn't want me to know that you know that is the Reb said to my father to my parents that they should talk to me right away was coming up my son they should talk to me right Uh what else me? So um said I don't mean right away tonight. You can wait till tomorrow morning. >> No, it was urgent. Uh as far as it was concerned, actually my father told me later that actually somebody came over to him that morning after that day in 770 and wanted to know if he could talk to Michael. >> So okay. So they have the behind the scenes is is pushing the >> So you got married you were 20. >> Yeah. when you're married. So I guess they convinced you. >> Um, no. I mean, they didn't convince me. Um, yeah, I could I could say the moment I knew that the Reb knew about it that they're asking me that it didn't have to be that was pushing it, that was enough. The knew about it. Obviously, you know, it's not like the issue of whether or not I should get married is not a question now anymore. And the only thing left meish is who to marry and here's a suggestion actually mother said okay so we'll make it done you know when it was brought it up again the second time all right I should it should be my decision otherwise >> so their style is that someone someone mentioned it to them that's how it started right >> it I mean there one I think should I don't think there ever was a situation like that. >> Okay. >> Someone I just interviewed >> everyone saw him >> as a result of course someone mentioning it >> so you got uh so you got married. Where did you get married? >> We got buried in Nashville. >> In Nashville. >> Got married in Nashville. And then I was in Kao for two years. When I left Kylo after two years, I was still the youngest one to kill. And um then we wrote to the river. No. I went went into asb. So the said that we should go into >> this is what is it was after two years ago or towards the end >> like a like a birthday. >> Yeah. >> You might with the wife with your wife. Does that work? >> Yeah. >> And we should >> You didn't have children yet? No, we had >> and you >> So we went to go to America. >> You asked. >> Yeah. Yeah. We should >> second. Pause for a second. >> People were going everybody. people >> there was there was yeah people >> that was the thing people but you're talking about touch on the base >> but there was no didn't send >> there was like or >> people were going to other but you know Americans would send I mean Americans would send that stopped. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Okay. So he went she asked to the same person but is good. You should see that it should be good even materially good as well. Comfortable even though okay the spiritual place you're at is the main thing but when you're in a comfortable place materially you have a head for spiritual things. >> So the saying that the should be ashistic and what what's the saying? It would seem so yeah that in other should be in under terms that are that are good or that are comfortable. My wife when she heard that was devastated. Um you know like what does the Reb want from us? We should be thinking about Kashmiris. She took it that came on her for I went from straight into I like I don't mean literally the minute, but it went through that same night and my wife was walking up and down on the eastern parkway was this roller and trying to make come to terms with this terrible z she had she said you hope that maybe after 10 years the will call us in say you don't have to have anywhere. So we're going to Kikov and Khal is Matsia certain place actually. So I said okay we're going >> I said okay. Yeah. So he smiles. He understood you know what my where my yes came from. You know if you get hats off from you don't say I want to think about it or I want to talk it over. So he said no. I'm not asking you for an answer. What I'm asking you is to take this I'm giving this to you as a a suggestion but there may be other suggestions out there. So get them as well and then write them in and sideway or any write them in. Okay. So I sort of let it be known that we were open for suggestion. I think we got 13 or 14 different from literally all over the world and Australia America menu. So I made the whole list and I wrote the obviously was the top of the list. >> You wrote? Yeah, sure. I said and the the Reb answered that the savior now is that you pick so um and do it. So therefore, pick where you want to go. called me up. I said this a beautiful answer from the Reba and I come to 770 and he shows me the answer and I wanted to like you know what and we asked said told us what what what is now saying we should decide what says sees that I'm not happy so do you Do you see what's going on here? I was calling you b and and what like call you b I said there was call me b is not call I want everybody to tell us where to go. I want to pick what I know whereas is but I'm going to do but my wife was now you know not one but not sex. So my wife wrote to the basically with this and what he should pick. >> We're saying I think that the Reb did choose the people at that time. No, >> he didn't. Okay. >> Look, the Reb said he didn't. Okay. I You asked me if I'm keeping >> Okay. >> So I uh we my wife wrote, you know, basically we don't know where to go. We're going to be we want to launch because wants us to launch or will they sending us you know not answering her that I should send in the list again send the list again. So we sent the list in again circled three places and he said I should find out more about these three places. One of them was of course Ammerst and two other places. I should find out more about these places pros and cons or whatever more problem of these places and to send it in. So I did send it in came back to obviously that's how we got to the surrounding areas and surrounding areas. So let me tell you what how it starts. So you come to Ammeris for the first time mamish to see the place you know to and I you have to talk to people so we can talk. So there was something called the Ammeris Jewish community at the time the Ammeris then even still now was is just a college town. It has Ammeris had like five colleges three in Ammeris and another two in adjacent towns. And so the Jewish community was just basically professors, teachers, professors, people I'm connected to. Um, and I uh made an appointment with the president of the Amos Jewish community. I come in and I explain buy house and we want to and you know could you give me some advice you know how to you're here you know my advice my advice is you should go back to Brooklyn that was my welcome to uh to Amoris it wasn't easy um but I didn't come by myself or my wife and I didn't come by ourselves. We came with and uh we had in ways that were like the it was like just even we started we rented a house right next to the campus. It was more of a bungalow than a house. The fronts was one big room that was the kitchen and the living room and the dining room and my office and the sh and this is all one not very big room and then two bedrooms behind the half a wall. So that was like a that was the first but then we found and with with that way uh a beautiful building house like literally on the campus surrounded on three sides and uh within less than a year we were able to buy it. we've got and uh it was never easy. Um I can't say I'm not quite sure what Kashm wanted us to have but the way it's conventionally defined I can't say we had a lot of it in in Ammerst. Um on the other hand, you know, it was there's no place to raise money from in Amorest because there's no community to speak of, no Jewish community that so we had to go, you know, it was always it was always a struggle um getting kids into the house. Um in those days was a minion that's first and foremost. Okay. Obviously minion shabas right on Friday night shabas and uh but during the week also it says you're like communion you know it's like so at the beginning we had Monday and Thursday was uh >> you looked at a like you have to make a show to make a minion >> yeah not just the minion okay obviously the the meals and the classes and the the programs and programs there weren't a lot of programs I mean like the gen the purm thing for in a purm thing the purm scene was genally be poor. Um but um we had I'm going next week to of someone who father what became the scarf in Ammerst and whose mother became a scarf in Amorest and I mean not the first his family next week and he's marrying of course into one of the quote blooded families of and it's but I'm sure it'll be his older siblings are most of us are and uh so so they're definitely definitely saw >> we saw we see But we've always had what to eat. We didn't necessarily always have the money with which to buy it, but ultimately you got to the table. So what was I'm saying this is a general question also that you later um what was the attitude? The attitude was I feel like today people are my key there. >> Mhm. >> Not everybody want touch. >> I'm talking about the money part. >> That was my question. I'm sorry. What do you mean? >> What was the attitude of today? I feel like people are much more you have to have you have to raise you have to spend according to what you have. Seems like then the whole thing was like >> before I could go to Ammerst wanted signed commitments from three or five that they would help supported it wasn't with money amounts but that they were supported they wanted signed commitments So I had to go find five balabat I have to mention when it was in Springfield at the time who was more than helpful. Um he himself used to give shim and from time to time and there was the connection and his um was very much involved in getting this going and he helped us tremendously. He was the one who came to asking they should send somebody. >> Okay. So he was >> and he was you know obviously was important but that was not enough wanted to have five I think it was five or four whatever I had to go to these are people um rabbis said I'm asking for any money amount of just ask you to sign a piece of paper that you're going to help and then he accepted the the commitments as it were. I was right in terms of how much to expect and um but uh so yeah so so it wasn't but it was supposed to be on on a basis of of of reality as it were of you know not just but um but no we we started with very little in terms of practically knowing where salam is going to come from gave me a a good piece of advice about to raised the money which was that I should since I'm a of America so I get 50% discounts from what I'm buying from Americas that I should sell subscriptions to talks and tales and half of the money will go to me so like it's you know$120 a year it cost them or something like that or maybe it's 240 and I can get for each subscription I get a120 soak I have to sell 10,000 subscriptions of stocks and tells and I'm I'm on the easy you can't find 10,000 people to be honest. But but my my question is what ultimately mean looking back at you know this is over 50 years ago. Yeah. >> I which year was love. So among the things that ever said was to make camps also camp or maybe it was a separate thing for camps. Some some it's in my head that it was and so we wanted to open a day camp and we went to the Reb and the Reb said money for >> there has to be money for it. Okay. for me, you know, money for it means there is money for it. It's not in my account, but the money is there. It's in the bank and I >> So, we owe it again. >> So, you did again. >> Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. >> So, that's my question. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Trying to figure out. >> No, there was no money for it. And yes, I was left with at the end of camp. Okay. Um, and you know what? was it then there is now the notion to go into askabos for a million dollars did not exist it was I mean yeah existed but not this there's no such thing and so it was and now again I I'm talking about myself and I can't extrapolate from there to everyone else but the the notion that you can do big things. When looking around the other that preceded me, I didn't see it so vividly. There was one but um but I I can't become you know that was not my not my speed and it wasn't just a question of my speed. It's like he is But, you know, it's the Reb was screaming and we were still, you know, um, and it took a while till, you know, our eyes opened up to realize what is not just what the Reb is asking from us, what the Reb is prepared to give us. >> But you, but you felt during your years of that you have a mandate to go and do more than you can way beyond what you think you can do. And that that was clear to you always. >> Yeah. And that's what you think. >> Yes. Yes. When I'm buying the kabad house. Okay. It's taku. We got we got we got the down payment, >> right? >> But you know I or maybe even the mortgage I knew that was going to be covered. So it was that part. But for me it just undertaking such a kind of thing was beyond me. But um but you know even okay but you know is is a whole another kind of thing and it's true um you know we'll go there. Okay. If he tells us to and that I was telling us to. So this was >> I just didn't realize that never actually meant it that we could actually do it. >> Right. >> That we can actually do it. But this was the amongst at that time that you know you know the the going on was still the going on was it wasn't that was not the default position but yes I grew up it was the default position it was never a question by me but that many of my classmates did not was not uh you know and why cuz I heard it from more than one I I couldn't do what you're doing. I couldn't do it. It's too much. How do you do it? You know, how do you know what what's anything's going to come from? So then what that was in a in a very real way compared to what the atmosphere at the time was today something has to be matter not to go on okay everybody obviously some can't but it's certainly you know it's not wow he's going it's yes he's I mean let's say okay but it's uh today the means a million dollar building what are you crazy okay >> it's least >> Did you ever write to theba about the hardships the financial hardships and things and you never you never complain to the Why for why would I about if this claim to I'm complaining that I'm not doing my job the said should be good I'm going to write to the it's not good hello of course it's good the only problem is I'm not doing everything I need to do I'm not working the way I should be working I'm not I was on a podcast once not year ago. This is not my first podcast. And the person asked me about Ammerst and said, "Do you moved from Amoris eventually to to Stanford?" And he asked me, "Do I feel that I was successful though during the 15 years that I was?" So I said, "No." So he said, "Why not?" Because Mashiah didn't come. If I was successful, Mashia would have come. That's so why did a Msiah come? Because Mashiach doesn't want to come. Mashiah doesn't come because we don't we're not doing everything that we needed to bring him. And you know if I was then then you would be here and that was success. So it is complaining that complaining I don't have money is almost like hello. Can you help me here? That was not a letter I was going to write. of a snare fish that that something like that could make. Okay. >> And I'm not going to say that it didn't cratch. Of course, it cratches. Okay. But it wasn't it wasn't unusual. It was I didn't think it was an unusual thing that needed I mean yeah it's that's part of goalless you know it's not it's not something wrong it's not something wrong and it's not something I never for a second question should I really be on like maybe maybe this isn't for me like that was like maybe I shouldn't be a human being maybe I should become an airplane I mean you know I'm I'm that's this is who I am Actually, I hope that I have given my children some of that because I didn't make it up myself. I mean, I got it from my parents, from my from my grandparents, from I always sort of read the alter saying this is what I want you to be. That's you know what's ach is is called is the is now what's the kite if not that those two things well you don't have to be called kool or it doesn't have to be kool in a revealed way yeah you can be a balik and also called k cool doing what need is balic Okay. But you know it's it's like there's one step removed. You know business itself is not the okay. The business is the means to be able to get it to give to to to the actually or is to give you. So you should be able to have two days a week after us whatever. But the is not the per se. But um here you have the opportunity that I can be in other words I don't want to use the word kam obviously in that in you know anything more than the very narrow sense that I'm saying it is in other words that the things I'm doing are kam should be kb is doing it that understanding and that means living the kind of life that you know the kids sung okay I know when they're looking at me it's you that they see that's what is and you're representing the rebba the awesomeness in the frightful sense of the word is overwhelming on the one hand and on the other and the responsibility that carries with it. But that quote is our description of being acting living that way. >> Okay. >> Does it come with hardships when Yeah, there may be some kind of hardships but you know what this goes but therefore change your job. Okay. So >> having said that >> I don't want anybody to be left with the impression that that's what is hardships. On the contrary I could say I think the you know we've reached a place where there aren't challenges and difficulties. Okay. But um my worries are I've reached a stage said what does that mean other instead of worrying about gashm you can be worrying about things so I can worry about things there are plenty to worry there okay but can focus on that because there isn't a gash mystical worry that is >> you're saying this is not a mitzvah but >> it's of course not a mitzvah and It's not talking about luxus. We're not talking about uh being able to take, you know, a couple of months a year off in in St. Thomas or >> I'm saying it shouldn't be that, you know, this is >> No, no, no, no. And today it's uh one thing that has changed dramatically I think is of course the the um general gosh mystic mats of of today is not there I know there are many that are still struggling pashmist you know in terms of paying the mortgage and and things that it's but It's it's not it's not a standard. Once upon a time it was a standard, you know, it was like that that oh thank god it's it's a holiday so the bank is closed. You don't hear that as much. Um it's p that's I guess after whoever it was that you know is holding that handle you know to keep from the flow of be turning into gashm the way it's supposed to be. Whoever is holding the handle can't hold it that hard. It would cause the is there and it makes sure it's turned the other way. Bar to get even more than we deserve. >> Okay. Alaz Gazak. >> Okay. So, let's go back to the story a little bit. So, you um were in Ambers, but you're also in Springfield. >> Yeah, Springfield. Our children went to school in Springfield. So that was we obviously commuted. >> How far is it? >> About 45 minutes. 45. >> So at the point you're living in Springfield. >> Then what happened was at one point um my wife was also teaching and then became assistant principal of of the school in Springfield. So it just made more sense for me to commute, you know, than for my wife. or my wife and children to commit to it. So we moved to Springfield and I would go every day to Ammerst and every shop would go to Emerson for shop to things of that sort. It was also at one point that um there was a teacher strike in Springfield. So I came up with the idea of pushing kids into the uh into the yeshiva because you know we were able to get quite a few kids into the day school and once the strike was over we unfortunately went back to public school but we had a connection to them. So they said that's like a pre Hebrew school and we did and so I made the Hebrew school there and it was it was very successful. No, no, it's been three and um it was so successful the in the in the conservative temple tells me a story that one of the women there came over to him and I was telling him my children they love Hebrew school. Oh, they finally it was so good. I love Hebrew school. So I said, "Okay, well look, okay, you're sending them to no but the temple's school people understood, you know, that if it's a good it's a good Hebrew school, it means we're talking about the >> So you're the first one that started and it's that standard today. >> Um, so how do you end up so how was what was the move to Stanford? How that >> Oh, that's how it went because we just >> the Stanford. >> We're Oh, to Stanford. I'm sorry. Um actually one of the that I brought to um um to Ammerst after two years and you know it was to expand it or he wanted to place himself in the subject came up maybe to open a move in Harford and the question came to The rabbi put on the cuff said that you know I should kinetic is my responsibility. >> You knew that kinetic was your responsibility. >> What happened was I kn I learned it was my responsibility actually because I would get telephone calls from time to time of situations that are in Connecticut to see to take care of. And then when the question came up of moving to Harford so whatever so it's my responsibility obviously he did in his today a very very successful was that and he himself has brought the himself but centers himself has opened it's I I am not his boss. He he I'm his colleague. Okay. But in any case, at one point um I got a telephone call from and this was like about a situation in Stanford and I should see to take care of it and this was a biggie and I have to deal with rabbi. So I asked um to we should open maybe a kabad house in Stanford which was the only city at the time in big city that had no center. Well actually in in Harford of course was the yeshiva there was there in Stanford was nothing never had been anything of so I asked the said it's so I called I asked so he said to call me back in a couple of days I don't remember what it was or I made up and come to him in a couple of days. Yeah, of course I remember his office and I came in and he read me from it about several things but and then he said and in terms of whether you what what needs to be done there and the whether or not you should go you should that's what I said the question was should I open a kapad center or should I bring somebody else to open kabad center I I should go and bring somebody else to Ammerst or I should please understand. So he said that question we are leaving up to you. He wouldn't give me the central I just, you know, so I understood that the way I read it was that I should because but there was going to tell me to move to Stanford I should tell to tell me to move from one place to another that you know will leave to you but is for Stanford is for yours and you you make the decision. I brother's understanding I understood it as I should move to Sanford and to bring other another to take their places. I know I know of other stories of other similar things that they were in one place but they have a big jurisdiction. So then they started they were a few years working in this place working I don't know if it's always moving but like they're being piled in different parts of their jurisdiction. This is something that other people have also >> um that's >> he was it was very much quote it's coming you know not a word about the said you know was like the closest I got ofb was we are leaving okay I'm sure there was that wasn't referring to and then but then you wrote to the a decision that you want to move to Stanford And an interesting thing is when I wrote this and then I said to check with the actually when I went to he didn't understand you like of course not why should I but I learned that school is something that was like we're sending but make sure that is not >> so of course >> right it's not it's right next to west which Were they even there yet? Nothing was there. But yeah, sufficient. >> New York. New York. >> Yes. Yes. >> There was no at the time. >> Yeah. >> Um so >> yeah. She moved there and you know it's an interesting thing talking about the river. So during this period when we were moving until we got a place in this year that I was listening on a tape because I didn't I wasn't there and I was listening it on tape on the way from Stanford to to Springfield was talking about one of the things said as you know talking about peril been parallel and so okay you're talking about pearls we're talking about not pearl barley but pearls on a necklace that's definition of a pearl so that was like and I felt it like a here we're going in in in a really big way >> I mean we should start thinking of different kinds of us here in Stanford We're going to start doing it with much bigger. >> That's not going to happen. >> It had to happen. What we paid for our house in Stamford was three times how much we paid for the Kabad house in Ammerst. Three times as much. I was like, you know, for what we paid for the Kabad house in Ammeris, which at the time I thought was hard to get a garage here in Stanford. And uh but uh it was actually and I saw like had to get a mortgage, right? When we bought our house, he had to get a mortgage from where we had our house in Springfield were able to for a down payment, but that was a down payment. I didn't get a mortgage from I was at that time it was hard for me to get a credit card, you know, with my stellar rating. And um somebody told me that there's a bank that has a Jew president is a Jewish guy and it's owned by a Jew go in there might be well you know maybe he'll this after two places mortgage brokers you know I don't think was this what we're looking for anyway. So I walk into the back. This was during the time of the elections in Israel. >> Yeah. >> And it was on the newspapers. >> They're at the top of the government. >> At the top of the government. So um I come into the bank and I want to meet with the president. I start telling him what we want to do. Oh, the lunch. I see you guys on television all the time. I Yeah, I see the rabbi on television all. No problem. You know what? Don't even bother with the applications as soon as you have what you need. Okay. In terms of the from from the the just come in here, okay, I'll take care of on my signature. He gave me a when it came to building our building. And they were not talking about a quart of a million dollars. We're talking about $3.5 million on my signature. >> Same guy. >> Same guy on my signature. That was like a you know thing. >> Clear clear ultimately he sold the bank but it was like you know for anybody listening this wants to know the name of the bank. Sorry it's it's already been sold and the bank that was sold has already been sold. So it's it's gone but but haven't left. They keep coming. >> Um and I know also when you were in Stanford you're physically closer proximity to New York. I know you brought people. >> Absolutely. I I know I met I meet people here that tell me that they regret they didn't listen and go with you and that they had the opportunity they didn't but there are many people that did there are there are and and came along with it and um it's so close unfortunately well sometimes I feel guilty how close it is you know it was the closest and am the closest I was feeling close was that what I could get there in time from and if it was a very long break and there was sometimes to the end of it that that's the most I would have from that I would have from um and even that I felt guilty like but you know it was always obviously coming for Shabas was a possibility nothing that wasn't as easy when you're further away. So the week and over the years were there that you got the you like how did it work? There was like do you have like major questions like how was the what was the say there when you're trying to figure out what to do? Yeah, generally major questions, you know, should we buy a new building? Should we bring another should we go to the and lesser issues would be to what in my mind is lesser not lesser. On the other hand, right the very beginning, it wasn't long after we moved to to Ammerst and I write a not of days but of hours what not what I'm doing this day or this week but certainly at the beginning um I I was careful about it but later it became an issue but uh but so and then one of our children was not well and had to be in the hospital some kind of respir infections nothing. Uh but pencil it couldn't be alone in the hospital. We had a baby at home. So it would mean that I had to be in the hospital or at home and it was going to be you know the D wasn't going to be talking about the next week's D is going to have you know big blank spaces there. So I wanted to call up to explain the blanket spaces before they happen. So I called him and I told him with So then there's quiet then says it's definite that it's the reason that your child is not well or became unwell and has to be in the hospital so that you should have pain and anguish that that that's not the reason the only reason could be why it is is because you have a in the hospital so go find didn't do it that was a officially from you know the pause gave me on the phone make as far as I'm concerned came from DBA directly and it was a stuff that doesn't happen bad. So things should be bad. The only reason stuff happens that looks bad is because your is in a place that otherwise you wouldn't be because other than this but you're there for this not so that it should be bad. Is this something that you thought about later on when there were other hardships? Constantly. Constantly. And not even just of the hospital kind which unfortunately there were so many of those kind. But when our was not well and in the hospital six or something and For some reason, my wife mentioned that she was going to call Aba to call Abba to get a from the before procedure something. He says, "I'm not the only one that needs a from the all of the other children on the floor get their names and ask for from them as well." I don't think he was six yet. Maybe he was already six. Okay. But, you know, was still I'm not here to everybody needs a not just need not also that was this and but it's that do I say that that's what pops into my mind the first thing when I challenge arises. I wish it was. But when I start this, oh, why is God picking on me about, you know, whatever it is that's happening? I realize that's not exactly what you heard. What you heard is why did God pick you? Okay. In other words, he picked you because it's your go do it. Go find it and do it. So, obviously it's not is necessarily obvious. Okay. I think uh with that note, we have what to work with. Well, I hope that you have with what to also relax with because I'm not meant nothing I said was meant to make anybody feel guilty. It was meant to make people feel how good that they are and how much better they can all of us can be. Okay. You know, I actually have one question before we finish. So you're talking about right for over 50 years. How do you perceive >> still over 50 years? I mean not many people have experienced the whole I mean that's not the youths but you're seeing it you know from from a like a when you look at it when you look at it from like a helicopter view over the last 50 years how have you seen the you know the progression or where it's going like what's your take on on on the whole and the uh on uh work. Some years ago, our gun was picked together with another 11 from the entire country, a cohort that there was an organization put in resources into all of these Ghanian nurseries and preschools in the hope that they would become centers of excellence. for others to emulate as well as to act as a springboard that would bring more families into the Jewish community as a whole. Recognizing that after college, the next place you can more easily reach young people, young Jews, is when they start having children and they need to. And we were one of those that would pay to say at the beginning I heard this was a $10 a $10 million initiative and god originally. So I fig million dollars there's wasn't to give up money. There's there was a couple of subsidies for particular programs but mainly resources they would bring people in and there was one woman that oversaw our guns she would come and meet with the whole staff and because the gun was so integrated with is so integrated with Kabad as a whole with the whole Kabad staff just she was very much into how an organization should work well and She did incredible work both uses in general. After she would come for two days each month and after two days she would meet with me to go over what had happened. After it was two years I think after the end of the two years she this was the last time coming. I said to her Diana maybe you want to come to the with us and she said sure. Then she had connections but not you know nothing but like she jumped like yes of course and so we got to the con my wife and I went to the we had in a conversation now it's pureat we're not talking anything so she says to me you know do you know what the problem with kabadat is we don't have problems the problem with Kabad is you're telling your kids the wrong stories. I'm thinking what you know the wrong stories. What are you talking stories of our babies? You're telling your kids stories of conquest of taking over of which is absolutely necessary when you start because you wanted to take over the whole world. You've taken over the whole world. There's not a place in the world where you aren't. You've taken over the whole world. There's not a significant challenge that you haven't faced and not overcome. Now you need to start digging deeper. You don't need to tell sto you need to tell stories about going deeper, not going broader, about going higher, deeper. Now is the time to to motivate the next generation into changing people, bringing people closer, bring, you know, it's like you've done the quantity, now is the time for the quality, which I thought was an incredible insight. And to to come back to your question, yes, this this is where we've changed the going out on the the first the pioneers, the the going into a world that didn't want them and had to change that world. They changed it. It is not. This is no longer the world that doesn't want us. This is the world that is explicitly being come. We need you. We must have you. It's a whole different kind of going. Okay. are as it were metaphorically welcomed with open arms and I feel that what has to happen and it's beginning to happen is the needs understand now we need to go deeper and we need to create things that whose quality is is me measured by their quality quality not by the quantity or not only by the quantity. So instead of to be the that has the school with 200 kids or 500 kids or and so it's the that is reached and changed ped changed 10 people 15 people 20 families transformed them there should be a I don't think is capable of truly having a pimistic accasher has the time for having a pimistic with more than 20 families 50 families 100 families more than that that's not it's not realistic and there needs to be a for every 100 families that's what now I want I want a state I want a country okay the content is spoken for but It's it it needs to be I I want to make I need to make there are so many people that are not even considering themselves Eden. I need to make them Eden and we need to tell those stories. It's it's people are in intuitively picking that up already with what I just said. But we we need to focus on it >> being at the core. That's what the Reb spoke about when he started. >> Of course, >> one person. It's not about it was never about numbers. >> Never. Never. >> That was a success of it. >> Of course. Of course. Okay. But we need to realize that that that's the message that needs to to resonate as the that is what is we were thinking of as we were thinking of who we're going to be dealing with that's you know which is what it had to be because that's what had to happen first just to go with the numbers we had to build the structure okay within which it could have the structure is built Now we need to focus on that on on when the Reb said and say between is never less than two weeks or more than two whatever it's two weeks never three weeks Okay. And yet, uh, when we think about, okay, we're going to make a bigger party this year. Okay. Bigger. There was, of course, a bigger party this year. And of course, sending out more this year, of course. But that's not what the Reb said. Whatever said is everyone. That's what the Reb is looking for. And if he's told it to us because we can speak that means every single that's and every single to okay thank you very much. You're very, very welcome. [Music]