Drinking on Purim | Rabbi Shai Finkelstein | February 24th 2026

But now I realize we don't. So I guess we're going to end somewhere and then the mascana the sh can be very different for different people. So uh it might be an interesting thing. Why not? But let's see. We'll talk about a halaki concept but obviously with um some hashkafa behind it and that's about getting drunk on purim. Oh now I got your attention. >> Um >> problem. And on one hand we need to s the to see the source obviously to see where it's coming from and do we really understand the source. Okay. So that's what we're going to do. What I'm going to see what I'm going to show you also the importance of a bit versions different versions for what the gamarra says which means in one gay it says that and in a different version that you find a manuscript a different manuscript you see something else and it might be that there are some differences that uh will peique our interest. So let's start. So the M the source for getting drunk I'm not talking about drinking wine like in every other Yuma there is happinesses with meat and wine that's every um and is not mashto because you are allowed to what to walk but there is obviously a component of a holiday. So the fact that we can drink wine and eat meat which by the way it's another question. Do you must eat meat for purim suda? You can have okay is also a different question. Do you need to eat in purim or not that I spoke about it on Friday night here but the idea of getting drunk which is very much of an anomaly on any we don't like that. So obviously it's something that we need to understand. Okay. So Rava says Rava is in he is in the fourth century where in Ra is a great sage and he says a person is obligated in bisum what is bisume that's a big question that's exactly our shisumi might So we don't know what it is but we know the outcome. The outcome should be what? Until you don't know that Modai is blessed and Aman is cursed. How drunk do you need to be in order to get confused? >> You need to be really drunk. That's now the second question is what's the point like okay but like what's the point of not knowing who is good from evil exactly you put it right what's the point of it we always try to what to find clarity right we are talking about separations we are talking about definitions so what's the point of what of getting so confused that you have no idea what's flying Okay. So now we have a story. We love stories, right? So Rabba who was a little bit earlier than Rava. So we're talking about the Yeah. So he and did a meal a pur meal together. So he reached that level of bassumi whatever that means. stood up and now everyone is doing this thing. Okay, hold on. You what did you do? You immediately translated to slaughter. Right now, do you slaughter a person or do you kill a person? You kill a person. You slaughter an animal. You kill a person. Even though I know in English you have manslaughter and I understand but you know that's Aramaic this is not English. Okay. So sh in Aramaic might be but it will be used more for animals not for people. So therefore when we talk about if so if the wanted to say that he killed him he will say what come that's in Aramit that's to kill. By the way, get ready Friday night as I do usually. I write my own. This time I I wrote a zar. Okay, it's all so you get ready for uh for aramit and um so should say not. So that's also it's an interesting thing. So, so Ra woke up in the morning and saw I guess in a different state and he somehow prayed and he revived him. So a year after says to Rabba says to we had so much fun last year let's do it again and says not every year we going to have a miracle. So something happened there for sure. He revived him. Now, but it also can be what? To revive someone. If you got someone so drunk and he basically passed out, so you can revive him quote unquote or really he killed him. So I will just say one thing. If the wanted to encourage me to drink on Purim, this is the story here is definitely not a good encouragement. So this entire which is basically the source for getting drunk in Buim is totally problematic. Let's put it like that. Okay. The Mahara 16 17th century says he says he says it's it's it's a wonder. It says yeah something that it's uncomprehensible and strange to explain this with its simple understanding which means that killed and therefore he says not that he killed him which means gave too much to drink and he when he drank so much he was so sick that he almost died. So if that's true so the Marsha has a hidden question which is what if he really didn't what kill him why do you say just say what he made him sick so The first thing that when you drink the wine, it comes to your throat. I guess that's cheap wine because expensive wine you need to what? To roll it on your tongue first. Okay. For the mim. Okay. So I guess when you drink the wine so it's come to your throat and that's why it used the word nice try but simple so basically really made sick. So he that he will not die because that he drank so much and he was responsible for that. He gave him too much to drink. So it says does not mean that revived him from the dead but rather what cured him healed him gave him some kind of a medication whatever that he became he became healthy again >> gave him coffee yeah gave him coffee such language then >> very good obviously the ma understood it and tried to explain it but his explanation basically It takes it away from the simple understanding. So first and foremost, what do we see from here? That what Rabba did was he gave him too much to drink until he became sick. And says, you know, Yiddish, thank you very much. I'm not coming next year. You can find a different qurban for that. I'm not coming. >> But that's was probably too much. So it seems to be the definition of drinking the wine is what >> is little bit less than that. By the way, the story also does not illustrate the fact of what the confusion between Morai and >> Ham. I can tell you one thing with he didn't know who is Esther. Okay. So I'm getting so sick. So obviously the source itself again is not that simple. Now >> it might but still also what's the point which that's really bothers me even more. Okay. Now in the British library there is a manuscript that says the following. Do you see third source? Okay. Until now. Perfect. Now take a look. Raa. What's the difference between this manuscript and what we read before? >> Ah, so what's the difference between Raba and Rava? Different people. Rabba was at the beginning of the 4th century. Raba was in the middle. Rabba passed away in 352. Now, it's not only that. Rava is the balra. Rava is what is the person who said that a person must drink until he does not know how to distinguish between Modai and and and Haman. So it's logical to say that what that is also the figure in the story. You with me? The opening statement is with alf says something and then I have a story about logically it means I said a statement and I also what do it this is one option now I want you to be open-minded for the second option which is the manuscript in the British uh library is wrong chronological border. When Rava says a person must drink until he does not know to distinguish between Modai and Haman. Is that a reaction to something that was before or is that a new enactment? >> You said that Raba was before him. >> Rabba was before Raa. So say it say it. So it seems to be a reaction which means our our manuscript what we were read at before is that Rabba did that thing with Ra and probably some other rabbis heard about it. Rava few years later says you know what that story that's exactly the story that teaches us what not to do. What do you need to do is to drink enough that you don't know between and that's it. Not to drink so much that you become what? So sick. Okay. Now we still don't know exactly how much to drink that you don't know how to distinguish between modai and aman but definitely don't drink to the extent that what >> that you make someone else or yourself so sick that you might even die. Now that's scary which means at the beginning of the 4th century in Bavl Rabba was also in Bavl people drank heavily and then Rava few years later comes along and reacted to it and said must speak now in the British library the this manuscript says what after they both probably got drunk or something like that. Now take a look. What is >> he recovered from his drunkenness? Yeah. So he davened for him and he became healthy. So here you see with this British library manuscript is that he didn't kill him. They just both got drunk and I guess tolerant to alcohol was not like Rava and therefore he got really sick. Okay. Now one more min. So there was a manuscript that we found in and it says like by the way here is the sequence is different in our is what and then it says again. So when there's no difference I'm just going to read it quickly. So the only difference here the only the difference that I like to see is says to shalom which means I'm not coming with you at all. Here he just told him look I would like to but I can't count on a miracle. Here Robzer is much more assertive and he says to Raba what to Raaw whatat I am not interested at all you go in peace there and I'm going really in peace somewhere else. So basically I guess that you are more confused and you can't really distinguish between and anymore because we have a problem. Our source is questionable. We don't understand the definition and we have two options. Rava is basically decreasing the amount of alcohol as a reaction to what to the story or that really Rava is trying to create a new level which is might be even >> more >> more than the story. So we don't know exactly how we can work on it and also it's becoming so subjective. Do you know any other mitzvah that is so subjective? Because everyone's tolerance to alcohol is very much different and also it depends on what you eat before what you eat during what kind of alcohol it's so not simple. Okay, beginning of 14th century. Okay. So he brings the you need to say after curse is blessed is curse. So curse are all the evil people and blessed are all not knights. Okay. So basically the ro says something interesting. He says and that what picked my mind is he says that you need to say after the what the language of what of says that you need to drink until you what you don't know the difference between and so what's the idea here says says so understood that what what does it mean? It means what? to get drunk with wine and without he says without I would say means what something else why because you know what I'll ask you you will do the hard work today who was the first one who got drunk immediately No. And there it says, "And he got drunk in his tent." No. So now if I want to know how do you say in Aramaic to get drunk, what should I do? >> Unaloo. I'll go to and I will say and I will see what is the translation for and he got drunk. You open up Unkaloo and you will see that it says what? Besumi. No, it says what? Which means in Aramaic, if I want to say I got drunk, I would say what? I got Rava, not I got bisumi. So therefore, besumi should be something else. The problem is that rashi was the one to say to get drunk. And which by the way it's very interesting because Rashi quotes many times. How do we know that he quotes many times? Where he says which is the translation. So therefore says the he says but it seems to be that the the intent is says that you need to what? To be what is happy. Happy not drunk. Happy, lightheaded. And also not fully but to a limit because you don't want to be drunk like that you don't know that you are sleeping with your daughter. Okay, which means is not to get drunk says the what? It's to drink maybe more than the usual and you are more >> tipsy >> tipsy. Yeah. I don't know little bit uh outside of your uh I don't know rigid uh whatever it is >> that doesn't bring you to the stage about your >> oh your fe the question was but that will not bring you to what to the level of that you don't know to distinguish between modifi and right you now you will say that I told you that try it okay try it at home before p you will see that you still know who is Modai and I know I'm recorded so that will be fun. Um but no but we all know what two glasses of wine will make me not to know between Modai and Aman. So it seems to be that we will not reach that >> drink and why you why are you supposed to think after the four cups of wine >> some people won't know >> will not know the difference. Okay. So to so you need to drink four cups of wine. That's the now. >> Okay. >> I don't know aud whiskey. >> So whiskey I'm not sure that was back then. Um, and they're talking about wine. Their wine, by the way, was stronger than what we have. Definitely in the time of the in the time of Middle Ages. I'm not sure what kind of wine they have. Okay. So the says so he says was poor and when he was invited to Rabba who was rich and he gave him wine he got really you know he liked it so he drank more than he was used to and it was too much but the principle the principle that you learn from the story is what that you drink that you need to drink a bit more than the usual and that's it. Which means and your question is that will not reach the level of raa. So what do you see from the rishim that they take only the first part of raishumi which is not to get drunk but it's just to get little happy and they in a way skip the other principle which is >> I'd skip the last part >> what >> I'd skip the >> yeah that's what most people do unless yes >> also >> what >> theualual Well, it's also not something consistent. >> Some people drink one cup uh a week. Some one glass of wine a week. Some don't drink at all. Some drink every night. Okay. They think it's helps the heart. I don't know. Um any cardiologist in the room? >> No. >> Any doctors in the room? So um so the idea is is that the idea of what is what you are used to is is very different. Okay. Run on the reef. So a person is must drink something in that he will not know how to distinguish between Do you hear that? Says that because of the story of what that he killed and gave him too much to drink. says what Raa said at the beginning is rejected which means >> keep >> this entire thing is being cancelled a person is not obligated to drink any wine on purim boo >> why don't people know that >> cuz it's that but that's what Rabenu says now this is interesting he basically says that the story which is now leave alone the you know quote unquote the politics behind drinking on Burim Rabenu Fine looked at it from more of a a social uh perspective which means look what it can lead to and because of what it led to we going to what to cancel the entire thing I mean it doesn't mean that you can drink wine you can but you definitely don't need to drink more than the usual you don't need to get to any level of not being able to distinguish between this and that and the other. You forget it. But Rava said forget it. Now the problem is when I look at it as a Talmudist, there is a problem because every time the where the in the there is a story that contradict what it says before, the will ask what? That's the language. You bring me a story to contradict what I said and then the will try to what to reconcile it somehow but the here doesn't say anything says Rava brings the story move on so that's strange. Yes. >> Because he came back the next year, he assumed that there is a mitzvah. >> No, no, he invited him to come. >> He's saying, well, there is the mitzvah, so let's do it again. Maybe a little less, but >> no, there is a mitzvah. That's that says in the meah that you need to have a suda. That that's not the problem. The problem is what kind of suda? And Raa says to him, "Come, come. We'll have a nice Suda and we'll do what we did last year." And then Ra says, "I like your suda. I didn't like the wine. That killed me." Okay. So I'm not going to rely on a miracle again. So the suda is there. The wine is the problem. Okay. Yes. >> So rash is the only person who will sell the whole >> Yeah. >> wine. >> No. >> No. That's not true. >> Yeah. That's a one of the myth that Rashi had a winery and he had you know Rashi winery obviously and you know and Bartanura had winery right and all look Rashi probably did not have uh any uh any vine any vine vines what do you call it vineyards any >> come from >> the what >> where did that story come from >> do you know tour guides they can come up with all sorts of stories um yeah yeah yeah yeah there there are no evidence that uh he was uh that he that he had any winery or anything like that. Um, sorry to burst your bubble fil. >> Oh, for his daughters. >> Oh, Rashi daughters. H that I don't know. I will tell you that toot which was obviously his descendants they do deal with can women put Felino and tit and so forth. So I don't know if that was a reaction to the three daughters. So that's also a myth. Who knows? The only thing is if his daughters put on filling, did they put fillin as well? That's the main question. Um, okay. Beta. So we are now at the end of the 14th century in what they call pinan which is basically province south France. Uh, but it was back then it was not yet mash provence. Okay. So he says the following a person must what increase happiness with eating and drinking and so you don't miss anything. However, but we are not obligated to what? To get drunk and to diminish ourselves as a result of it. We are not obligated to be happy of out of silliness and and emptiness but rather aim that comes as a result of pleasure. And from that from that meal and and the drinking we should basically what reach the point of praising God. thanking him for the miracles. So also knows the and he says what I suggest it's nice but that's not what the says you see he has the gear of what he says for the story We hold like the gillim or was one of the gonim that says what that because of the story that raa killed or got him sick. We reject the entire thing. We hold on to the idea that there is little bit more drinking than the but not to the extent of why because that can lead to death or sickness and we are not interested we are interested in that brings you what to recognize God then miracles to praise God those are the things we are interested in anything else totally Totally not interested. >> What's his reaction then? Why did he say it as a reaction to what happened? >> Oh, no, no. I that was an option. I didn't say that. That's what he said. Which means we can read the story. We can reada as a reaction or >> okay >> of a new um >> why did you even choose that expression? I think because that was very clear at night because if we hold like the that says that after the megal you need to say what which is very distinctive perhaps ra says the wine needs to bring you to a level that what that that distinctiveness that you had at night is totally blur in the in the day maybe that's what he why he chose it okay so he says uh Oh, here he says. So he says from the Jerusalem we hear we we learn that what we said in the Babylonian Talmud is what is gone. We don't hold like that. You drink a bit more but from that drinking you need to what? To come and praise God and not to do things like that which is the Rambam. You need to drink until you what? >> You fall asleep pretty >> strong. I always fell asleep in the stad when I was a kid. >> I always fell asleep by drinking all that wine. >> Okay. So, >> you fall asleep without drinking is not good. >> What do you mean? If the rabbi gives a speech, what? >> Yeah. I don't know. >> Agree. Great. I don't know. I don't know. >> Since that's about to get drunk. >> What do you get drunk? So I'm going to sleep asleep the same >> right and also you accomplish by that by sleeping you can definitely not distinguish between what? Basically drink too much. >> Right. So that's basically how the Rambam kept it together. Meaning you need to drink until you go to sleep. When you go to sleep, you can't distinguish between >> what >> the is trying to say. I don't I don't know what his point was yet. We got >> Oh, the mayor says we rejected we basically balance. >> Sure. Sure. Yeah. Okay. And then he says um Okay. Okay. Whatever. >> How do you First you get drunk and you fall asleep. >> Where are you? >> Is that where you are? >> No. No. I'm still in the now. Now I'm going to the Rambam. No, no. But the quotes the Rambam Luke 1, 2, 3, 4. Yeah. Okay. Now we will go to the Rambom. Now we'll get to the Rambom doesn't say. Okay. So the Rambom says the following. So how do you fulfill the mitzvah of the Rambam says you need to eat meat and prepare a nice meal imperial capabilities will get drunk >> and you fall asleep while you are let me see how for I don't understand why >> I thought you would be battled with my withone and you're talking about pooling it's a good stream like that's all from super >> and then in addition another mitzvah of the day not after that not after you are asleep and why is he saying there because really according to the it seems to be that should not be and all the things that everyone throw to the garbage but you need to what to have things that what that are added to the meal. Okay, now I know we barely do that because you know it's very hard but basically that's one of the opinions that the is something that you can add to the meal meat wine if you know that you come to someone and they eat fleshik don't bring them crunches you know. Yes. So you fall asleep at the table. You're not leaving the table to go take a nap. >> No, I don't know. >> I don't know. By the way, according to the Rambam, don't forget, I mean, even middle ages in in in mitime, they might be that they had like a little couch, you know, and little table. So, it's great to get a nap. So, I don't know. But it seems to be that according to the Rambam, the Rambam, what's the point here? The point here you can see almost all the Raban Sarat basically tried to what to reject the Babylonian Talmud verse because of what they found in the Jerusalem Talmud that you don't need to do that the Rambam who was aware of the Jerusalem Talmud well aware he does not think like that but he does give a different interpretation to the Babylonian Talmud which means don't get drunk to the extent that that you can't distinguish between Morai and Aman but rather just fall asleep and then you don't damage anyone you don't cause harm to anyone and also you fulfill what Travis says. Yes, >> there are differences today where you're drinking alcohol that's 80% 90% 100% proof as opposed to wine which might tend to be just make you sleepy. I'm not such a um I would say that according to the Rambam if it's forever you know you you drink enough wine until you fall asleep. Now again the problem is you can cause a lot of harm before you fall asleep right. So in a way what the raam suggested does not really avoid the problem of right we still have the problem by the way I think we all here have at least one two or three or four or five stories of people who we know got drunk on purim and their behavior was not exactly dignified or that they they themselves are proud of what they did okay and I think that's what we have in our like in the back of our minds Okay. Says which is he says he was one of the in the 13th century. He was the really and he says >> which means if you didn't do it >> doesn't matter >> doesn't matter if you did it which means he takes the word and he says what it's not it's if you want now by saying that obviously you take away the the the obligation. Now there's something very interesting as I said before Ashkanazat even though the ro at the end ended up in Spain but he came from Germany. So you have France and Germany and they look at the and they say what don't do it from don't do it at all like to totally reject it to what to it's not but the Rambam seems to be he took it seriously. He just changed the definition of it but he did take it seriously. And obviously you need to ask yourself a question of what? Why? What is the difference? >> People in southern countries tend to drink more wine. >> Um, now in the middle ages in France, they drank a lot of wine. >> And also in Ashkinas, a lot of wine, more than water. Don't forget more than water because water was liquid for animals, not for people. I saw once a calculation of how much wine they drank in the benign per day. It's much more than we drink in a month probably. Um, now how exactly they made the wine, it's also an interesting thing. But the idea is is that if you think that we know maybe they didn't drink a lot in France and uh and that's why and probably that's not the reason uh it might be the duffka in Muslim countries that drank less because Muslims don't drink wine. So and the Rambam was in a M country. So maybe also Jews did not drink much and by drinking one glass of wine they got very sleepy. I don't know but that's all speculations that there's nothing uh with content behind it. So let's continue. >> This is very hard for me to listen to because my son's second year rabbi in high school Rebi got all the boys drunk and I can't tell you what happened after you don't want to hear. And >> why that's interesting. That's the part I want to hear. >> Good thing they didn't get in a car and drive. But I really have a very hard time with this for that reason. I really think every rabbi rebby should get up and say, "I know you'll learn Gomorrah. Let's skip this. Skip this entirely." >> So, as you can see, uh, if you follow Ashkanaz, it seems to be that at least in they were against it. The Rambam was not. So let's see the T. Okay, T is already >> do you tell your congregants when do they come up and ask you or do you make an announcement before? How do rabbis handle it? >> How rabbis handle it? That's like almost like what kind of flavor do you like in Baskin Robbins? Okay, every rabbi deals with it differently. If you have a question, I do say and you don't need to drink until you're drunk. You can Mike always my answer is drink a little bit more than the usual when you feel that it's too much or if you have a friend who says that it looks too much stop it stop it there's no mitz to get drunk however some other rabbis and rabbis um don't hold like my opinion okay um look at the tour now we are talking about already the 15th century so there is to increase your back. It's back. Okay. So the bet of Joseph 16th century now says interesting the two brought it back and but puts what a stop and says no no no no what are you talking People who get drunk can can lead them to what too bloodshed and then then all sorts of things that we don't want. The only things that you need to do is what is to drink little more >> little more nowish 17th century Poland. Oh, okay. We did a circle. Okay. We started in Tarat when we moved to Rashkinaz. We moved to Spain and we I guess moved even to Egypt and then we came back to the tour Spain. But in now we have he says the following. Oh my. Okay. Two minutes. says get drunk almost like almost like and don't wonder and don't ask how come that they allowed us to get so drunk. So that's how the fact that the put that story in it means what that's a model that's what you need to do says. So the B says no no no we are going to be loyal to our tradition. French rabbis, Ashkanazi rabbis, we are rejecting that story from and why he says So he says like that he says ra says you need to drink until you don't know between comes along the story of and basically shows you what don't get so drunk until you kill someone or until you don't know between and that's not going to fly anymore. What should you do? drink a bit more, maybe even be borderline drunk, but which means you are still coherent. You still know what to do. by the way which has some implications to it as well which is what you need to dar after that you need to say most of the time you need to say I mean you can't uh you know start with you know you can't do that so and then he says so as I said at the beginning of the show I thought we have two shim but we have only one so The problem is that we don't have um a conclusion. So, so, so, so, >> so I will just say one thing. You know what? I will just say one thing. Obviously, as you can see, there are two ways, three ways to look at it. You need to get drunk. Four ways. You need to get drunk until you don't know between Modai and Aman. you need to get drunk until you fall asleep. You don't need to get drunk at all. If you want, you can drink a little bit more or don't get drunk at all. You just need to drink a little bit more than the usual. Okay? So, that's in terms of four opinions. Ask your local rabbi what you should do. Okay? Now, but it's more than that. I think when whatever you're going to decide, you need to ask yourself two things. A, do you know yourself? And how do you behave when you get drunk or when you even if when you drink more than the usual? If you know that you're going to lose yourself and you're going to say things that you will regret, drink Coke or better water, okay? And don't require. If you know that you can manage and you drink a little bit more, but and you have Torah and you have you have good things to say, that's one thing. If you know that what will come out from your mouth will not be appropriate. Okay. And not >> so uh this is I think the best way to look at it. There is a lot in the about wine and also don't forget wine in is not necessarily a destructive element. It can be destructive if you drink too much. But we sanctify the Shabbat with yine. We sanctify yto with wine. We sanctify couple in a marriage in wine. We do with wine. Okay. We do with wine. So wine is not your enemy. >> You can be your own enemy when you misuse wine. So I think this is part of the of the idea.