Dov Weller — The Rav Meir Shapiro and Chachmei Lublin Haggadah

Welcome to inside art scroll where the books that we read and the people that write them come to life. It is a pleasure and an honor to welcome to arts studios for the very first time dove weller. >> Nice to see you. >> Shalom. It's great to be here. And the book that brings us here the safer is the Romero Shapiro and Lublin Hagada. A beautiful Hagada. I know because I read a lot of it. It's really magnificent. >> Thank you. >> And this is actually your fifth book with art school. Correct. >> Correct. >> And it took five books until you finally agreed to come in here. >> That's it. >> Five is a charm. >> Okay, let's let's jump right in. First of all, are you an author, a RV? What's your connection to writing books and swarm? >> Great question. So I'm not a rabbi and I'm not an author just a pity. Um you know went to Kyla for a little bit. I've been working for the past 10 years in the healthcare space. Um and really it's always a passion of mine. I've not been known as a fantastic uh writer. You could ask my English teacher from 8th grade. Um but it's just something that I had a passion to you know put pen to paper gather whether it's mccur sources and ideas and uh you know one thing leads to the next um I had a kabusa of mine whose name was Rabbi Mosha Sherro who wrote the what if series >> and he told me he said listen anyone could do this so I think like the gumar says that hill is m of and y is mai of his crowd I could definitely be m of all the people that have no writing experience my wife tells me Still she says after five books you don't know when it's apostrophe s apostrophe. I'm like listen that's what we have editors for. So anyone out there that has an idea has this desire to to try and to push to write something you can do it 100% >> do authors. >> Yes definitely. >> Let's jump into this Hagada. It's really a fascinating Hagada. I asked this question to somebody else. The single most popular printed safer is Hagadas is that what a compelled you to write a Hagada and b what's your connection to Luplin to Shapiro Dafoi what was it that set you on this path? >> Excellent. So regarding the regarding the Hagada, you're correct. It says and that's why we have a tremendous proliferation of Hagadas, probably thousands at this point in time. But I've always had an towards the Hagada. Um put one out with art school about 10 years ago and um it's a very inspiring night. It's the night where we're mazik our family is mazik ourselves in Amuna and so many important foundations of what it means to be a yid. And I feel like the text of the Hagada just as an entrance to talk about anything what it means to uh you know to be that to be a practical and to be that practical everything you could imagine is found within the for me you know writing on the has just been something it's a labor of love and that's something that I enjoy thoroughly as far as lublin um I always had this like connection to Rav Mayor. I've never been to Lublin. Um, >> do you do Dafi? >> I do DIY my first cycle. So, I'm not like uh not the uh you know someone that's done it for four or five cycles, but I always have this Natia towards mayor towards his I guess his his panim and uh about last year about eight nine months ago I was talking to Gdalia to Gdalia and we're floating a few different ideas and uh We started talking about Lublin and originally the idea would be is to do the city of Lublin Hagada from together with then it morphed to just focusing on the Lublin there's so much and story and unbelievable history um that exists within this yeshiva which was only around for about 10 11 years >> unbelievable >> but nevertheless it it's it has a tremendous place a place of love a place of example for yeshivas until today and many of the figures there are some of them are very wellknown of mayor and others and some of them are not so definitely tried to bring out a lot of the Tyra the stories the inspiration and really their messages which are just exceptional and >> can we could we before we talk about the personalities which I would love to talk about the the are on the front cover here tell us what it would be like if a bah wanted to get accepted into yeshiva's lublin >> excellent question so to get into yeshiva lublin Um you had to know 200 blot gimra and when we say gimmorra it's gimmar is rishin and balpe >> how old were you when you would reply >> um so you could be really you know usually about 16 17 18 was more on the younger side 16 was more on the younger side but uh there were people that bram that were just you know geniuses or had just unbelievable and gimmar etc that can come in slightly younger but typically you were um 18 1920 and someone like Hersburg came in a little earlier. Um, >> what did he take of Haran? >> So, great question. So, if you've seen they have them in Lublin today, they have the Pekk, so to say, the ticket of your name, the city, and then how many blot you're going to be tested on. And the minimum is 200. So, some wrote 200, some wrote 300, 350. And Pinas handed in his pekk, his ticket for the entrance exam. It just said shas. And, uh, Rayor was very taken by Pinas Hersbrung. And he said that Kadai the yeshiva for Pinas to the point that when he was just a few months into being in the yeshiva maybe a year a year and change mayor appointed him at a very young age to be the official bin to be the tester the one who gives the entrance exams to any new Bakr coming in and obviously to do that you have to have exceptional knowledge exceptional bikon and held that position in a very very special way and he held her of mayor and the yeshiva in an extremely close way throughout his entire life. >> Okay. So let's start at the top the center of these uh uh five people is Romero Shapiro. Tell us how Romero Shapiro thought of opening this you know Harvard Havdo of Yeshivas. What was his vision? What what pushed him in that direction? He was the RV of the town of Lublin. Right. >> Correct. So to move back a little bit mayor became the RV when yes opened. So a mayor had this desire to really revolutionize the Torah world. Um he was someone who had tremendous vision. He was a revolutionary. Um and he was an innovator in the most exceptional way. We have the daffi was something which was not very um we had the daffi program which he innovated and really till today obviously has just been gathering strength. one of his very very most famous revolutions. But at that point in time um in Poland the status of yeshiva bacher he was treated as a secondass citizen. Um there was no place to eat. Yeshivas did not have dining rooms. They had to go eat teg as it was called by balabatim who either didn't like them very much. If they would come late they'd say you're too late. There wasn't enough food very often. They didn't have a place to sleep. There was no official dormatory. They would often sleep in the yeshiva, sleep on the benches of the shul or sometimes they would sleep as uh as the shimemer in a store and it was extremely degrading to the bahim and just the facilities were almost non-existent and understood that in order to uplift the cover sometimes we have to do that by uplifting the by the outside the facade of yeshiva the building of yeshiva to show that terra is preeminent that terra is something which is honorable and that would happen through building this magnificent yeshiva which was something which is just unheard of in Poland at the time and mayor with tremendous misses you know had the hanakina in 19 um 1923 and the event was covered by journalists and the media and 50,000 people came to this unbelievable occasion of a mayor wanting to build this structure of six floors with a dormatory which was something unheard of, a kitchen, a dining room, a mikvah, a dentist, really anything you can think of, a fresh bakery for the Baham to have and just a beautiful, beautiful dormatory um and bis and that was so that way not only the bakim should feel uplifted but the people surrounding them, the balabatim, the community really the world should understand the kashiv and the centrality that terra plays in our life. >> Now, in order to do that, he had to hire very special people. Share with us who the Kaiser Glover was. >> Okay. So, interestingly enough, he didn't really hire the Kaiser Glover. >> Okay. >> Um because Rayor was nifer in 1933 >> at a very young age of 46. >> Yeshiva opened in 1930. Um Riv Mayor had >> from 1923 till 1930 been almost on the road. collecting money was an enormous enormous amount of money that was needed for the yeshiva. Her mayor was a solitary figure marching across Europe across America alone but always guided by this burning desire to be a mayor to go out and illuminate and he did that just in an exceptional way. So when the yeshiva opened in 1930, he was a rashiva for about three years and in during that time the yeshiva was in terrible debt and it was a magical time for a mayor but unfortunately passed away at the age of 46. Um and the yeshiva had you know somewhat of a intermediary period until the kajlover came in. And the kag lover was a ary fromemer and that's who this is over here and he took over the position of rashiva lublin in 1935. He was the rashiva till unfortunately the closing of the yeshiva 1941 during the holocaust when the nazis took over actually the yeshiva and made it into their headquarters. But the ka lover rebro was just an exceptional exceptional person. He was he had a tremendous tremendous was otherworldly. They say he would say nishmas if someone didn't see the nishmas shabas morning of the ka lover nishmas he never saw nishmas he would say nishmas tremendous for up to a half hour and his he was a bucky in sh nigla nister kabahidus his rebi was the famous aber bourstein and he was someone who was just otherworldly and his and his and he was a rashiva and a pisk which was something of a rarity like revein but a very distinguished py as well the ka glover was a pisk and we have from him today the shish and chuvasi and it's very fascinating you go through the chuvas of the common theme that runs through this safer is he's always looking to be mamus his idea of there's a minigan client so where does it come from what's the m for it how do we do this ultimately we have to go ahead and be and he would plum the depths of and every part of in order to go ahead and bring for as to why they did certain things. So he was just someone who was exceptional in yeshiva he was exceptionally beloved >> was he killed by the Nazis >> and he was killed in the Nazis. So the story goes in 1943 he was in Warso in the Warso ghetto with him he had seven children they were all married at the time families entire family his wife and in the Warso ghetto he was living in gehenn there was no food they were in hiding but he continued his his ding his he was part of a bezden at that point in time together with other gadm that were posing some of the most difficult chilus to ever to ever exist shilus of life and death of you know how to deal with the dayto-day with in such a terrible situation and his aid did not cease his dining his hashem it was just unbelievable he would get up at 12:00 at night for and he said the ghetto of Warso that's how close he was and unfortunately 1943 him and his entire family and all their children and grandchildren were taken to the ghettos were taken to the concentration camps. And as he was about to enter into the gas chambers, he told his family, he turned around to his family and he says, "Because now we could be that's who he was. That was his legacy." And u >> does he have any descendants or you don't know? >> So his direct family was unfortunately killed by the Nazis, but he did he did have a brother and a nephew. So his nephew was the one that had many of the himim lived in Kyifa. Um his name is Rabbd Fromer and um this has children you know so it's there is some descendants but not the direct line but a lot of the we have and a lot of the printing of this farm of the comes from this from her. >> Okay let's move on the Mashk was the next one. So yeah, so this is the Mashki. His name is Shmul Zelshm Horowitz Ali. He was a ley from the famous Schlaw family and he was born in the town of Zelov and um he was what was called an Ishella or a yellow pellah. He was someone at the age of six who finished the entire Mishnay. He was a genius of all geniuses. Um he said that from the day that he became cognizant of the he was never from says he remembers his daily life from the age of two. So I don't know if most of us can remember too but uh was someone who was just an ishella >> what do they call him >> and um he was born in 1877. He was interesting enough 10 years older than Rivme mayor and at first he actually went to work. Um he learned for a short time by the like the Kaglover but eventually went to work for Parnas. He was successful for a time and then the business went down and he began to teach in multiple communities, different communities until her mayor hired him. And this he dressed very simply. Um he was small, he was short, he wore a very large yamaka, had a very large forehead and he was just the someone who never forgot anything. The chab said about him in Europe, the entire Europe, there was no one who had a memory like Grip Shimla other than the rugg and his aid was very unique. um he felt that he's not a very big fan of pilp um which was the style of learning within the yeshiva and he also didn't feel that you necessarily needed a rebi a rebi is going to teach one mahalik and learning and he said why is that necessary you there are so many ways of learning and he felt that the presence of kabal andus was a very important thing and when he would speak it was unbelievable he'd sit there standing up with his eyes closed kamat never looked in a safer and he'd just cross the full expanse of kasidas kabalo nigla nister it was all totally on his fingertips moral and the bak were extremely taken by this he was an unbelievable kazin he was and someone who just really inspired the tamidim in a very very unique way the vasner was exceptionally close both to mayor and toshimlah and wrote what's called a surv which was a type of to very very few But Ali was one of them who was to have that letter from him and Shiml's Tyra was very unique very depthful um and he was someone who played a role he was in the yeshiva for about three years from about 1930 when the yeshiva started a short time after that till 1933 1934 when left there a little bit of a you know unknown about the trajectory of the yeshiva and left he moved to Warso and unfortunately him and his family as well were killed in the The family we have hers which ended up he ended up in Montreal >> in Montreal. Correct. So Pinas was a Talmud like we said was a Talmud in very close to Ray Mayor and uh Rome was his guiding light. The speaking to a few of his children his daughter and his son and they were they said we lived with Ray Mayor because their father lived with Rayor and uh Reninhas was also a tremendous tremendous masid tremendous person. and he had tremendous humility. Um, and he became a world-class play and someone who was there for his community. Eventually in 1941, he escaped Ben Niss from the war. He has an autobiography called the veil of tears. It's available very very fascinating read of hearing his travails through the through Europe and escaping was an unbelievable recount. And eventually he came to Montreal and uh for the next about 40 the next about 45 years he was the 40 years he was the abbezin of Montreal and he was just beloved by everyone and he said something very beautiful. He said that he was asked that he connected to everyone whether it was the the I let us say the misra thei and someone asked him like what's he he just has this unbelievable all-encompassing love for yeden and he said it's very simple nothing brings more than unity within and he says I want to be part of that unity I want to be part of that bringing that's who he was and they say His Leva was the largest Levia in Montreal and all groups were there. >> Can we jump into the Hagada because this is really important. >> Jump into we forgot Raznner but >> Ra. Okay. Well, >> we know Razna. >> We at least we've heard of Ravos. He's been okay. >> Yes. >> Vagada. So, how did how did you go about like compiling this? You found a var from Rahers and a Vart from Rome Shapiro and a Vart from the Kajlover and you you just put them what was the process because I'm sure there's a lot lot out there and you figure out what >> so there's there's a tremendous amount of material um you know some more some less. There's biographies, there's terra, there's gathered terra from the tamidim of each of these um personages. So really going through researching and just methodically going through I would say dozens of different sarum and periodicals and speaking to people that either had parents who learned there you know fathers who learned there or people that knew them there and just getting firsthand recounts of what happened in Lublin um their experiences with RME or with the Kav with these very special GDM and like we said the text of the Hagad is just an exceptional way to bring out really any part of what it means to be it's a platform for almost any conversation you want to have at your seder. So I tried to bring that out what it means to use the seder as that platform to bring out you know the important uh mission of the night which is the and try to through their lives and their to bring it down to us so we can really be inspired by their terra be inspired by their life which was just exceptional. Dove is the Weller family seder this year going to be heavily infused with Kak Lublin. >> So happens to be the last nine months. You could ask my family. Um it's been all about Ray Mayor the Kauglover. My little 5-year-old uh says, "Oh, the Kaiser Glover t." So uh >> there's a he made it into a song so people know who it is now. Whatever. >> Many people don't know who the Kajjuglover is. My my suggestion is to to get his save for which is a compilation of his. two volumes of my exceptional exceptional diver. Um but yeah, we're going to speak out from these great and there's so much to learn from them practically speaking for any age, anyone at your table, whether it's men, women, children, any background, there's something to learn from these great that we can ultimately tap into and uh and really gain from. >> You know what? I don't think we could finish this interview without hearing at least one piece of Tyra that's in here. What's your go-to? The part that like drew you in the most. >> Um, so I'm going to give two very short detra. One of them is that Rayor had a very special tool. He was a very young child. His name was Abraim Brig. And this is Ray's first position which was in Galina um when he became the Ra at a very young age. And this Aphrim was an an unbelievable child. He was the son of a of a shoemaker. very simple background, you know, no formal training from his father, from his parents and he excelled in an exceptional way. And Romero did not have any children, found this child to be like like his child almost like his own. >> And Romero took personal delight in this child, his terra, his mental acumen, his intelligence. And unfortunately this child this fry was nifted at a very young age and it broke was very very broken by this and his levia was mased and he said something which is tremendous. He says this mymed, our he was he was the most precious. He was yell at him and what do I remember when I think about Ephraim as I remember the the potential what could have been what could have come from him the ability that he could have brought to the world that very light that he could have brought to the world the tremendous terra that didn't come to light the the illumination that he could have brought the potential that was not tapped into asenoid I remember the that was within him my inner stir with pain because I remember that and I think that's a message to every single person here we all have the within us that latent potential to tap into and Rome and all these showed us to push to be able to do more to not rest to add something small everyone has that id whether it's an extra five minutes a day or mayor was mad idea something consistent and for some people it's hard but do that id tap into the a little bit potential within a little bit of the more we can do and over time will be to really maximize and actualize the that is within each and every one of us. >> Beautiful. Thank you. >> Last but not least, >> go ahead. >> Cut it. >> Yeah. Last but not least, the last year of the mayor's life was the the last keipper of mayor's life was in Lublin and it was by Kidre and we know it's the holiest day, one of the holiest days of the night and of the year >> of the year thing. I think it was the one of the holiest nights of the year and there was an elderly that was given the kib of taking out the safer by and he went up this elderly this he went up and he took out the and as he turned around to begin encircling the to begin encircling the he fell >> and the entire yeshiva gasped and they ran over to him this elderly man, this elderly kam and despite the fact that he had fallen and despite the fact his fragility, he still held on to the terra and they tried to help him up and he said, "No, I'm going to get up by myself and he got up. It was obviously hard for him. still holding that safer and he began to circle the to begin to circle the reciting but the were broken the holiest you know night of the year the mishbra falls and they were crying it was a terrible omen terrible simmon for what's going to what's going to happen and got up and he spoke between kij and after this incident and he started crying and he said look How unbelievable it is. This Yid, your child, he fell and despite the fact that he has fallen, despite the fact that he was, despite the fact that he had fallen, he nevertheless held on to your safer. And we're going to promise you that no matter what happens, we're always going to hold on to that safer. And I think that's the message we see that today with all the difficulty happening within Kalisrol October 7th and throughout our history. No matter how we've been persecuted, how we've been pushed down, how we've been downtrodden and fallen always holds on to that safer and mayor and all these despite their challenges has shown us that no matter how far we've potentially fallen and we've been hurt and persecuted and challenged and um people have derided us and tried to stop our goals, we're always going to hold on to that safer terra. >> Beautiful. And >> that's laeder. >> That's >> that's what we talk about. Look what they did to us. But we're still holding on. >> We're still holding on. >> And I highly encourage people buy it now already or I mean if you want buy it prime time, learn a little bit of the hagada each day. And then you have so many beautiful things. Like you said, if your family is into this, if they're into that, it's in here. And what I really liked about this Hagada was that you you you gave such a beautiful introduction. You know, we talked a little bit about about the personalities about Lublin. So that when you start reading the Tyra, it's not far. It's not just a safe opening. You're like, you're in it. You're in Lublin if you want to call it that. And then all of a sudden the Tyra take on a life of their own. >> Yeah. So one of the things we we worked on, I worked on a lot was the biographies. Now these are brief sketches. This is not a historical safer, but really to introduce who these figures were and their life because there's so much to learn just from the history of these gadelm. And uh the back part of the cafer has really you know biographical sketches of each one and pictures a small amount of so that way when we jump into the we hear a vart from the kaj or we hear from mayor and you know pinas and the others we can truly understand their life their challenges and how they rose above those challenges because each one had tremendous challenges and each one had tremendous but to see the light they brought to the world um in an exceptional way and that's something that is everyone can learn Galdic, thank you so much for producing this Hagada, bringing it to life. I know the land our family sashm is going to benefit from this hagada and you should continue at the right time to write beautiful and to inspire cloud >> really appreciate. >> Thank you so much.