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Derech Emunah: Using New Manuscripts of Rishonim Part 1 | Rav Chaim's Seforim Explored
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
[Music]
foreign
welcome back Rabbi Dr Eleazar brat today
is an exciting day
we're looking forward to this day for a
very long time season two
on this foreign
there was no discussion of season one
and season two but as we kept on getting
the feedback that we kept on getting
this gave the fuel to Rabbi Dr Bratt to
just dive in to this endless topic of
replying's forum and all the storm that
he used in each episode really goes on a
tangent as everybody brought likes to
say tangents upon tangents of exploring
different response and we shine him in
the history truly fascinating and we
have a sponsor who is sponsoring the
season of Republic's forum and all he
wants mentioned is that this is going to
be ILO nishmas
so the knowledge and the learning that
comes out of these episodes should be
and Eloy for his nishama or by Brat how
are you today
foreign good okay so we ended off for
those that remember and you could go
back they're all available on all that
we could put into the bottom of the
video exactly how to find them where to
find them we have Usher tester behind
the scenes producing and he'll let
everybody know
on the video in the emails and in the
messages how to find all the previous
episodes
so we ended off discussing Derek hamuna
which I think we called the behind
seminal work we mentioned that that was
something that was put onto his cavers
obviously something that was
and we discussed the history of learning
stages running throughout the
generations and where behind came in to
the picture after they were showing him
and aquarium and later according him
that had that had written swarm and
works on azraian so today's topic and we
may spend more than one topic on this is
we mentioned and we know that the
hazinish has writings about it so we're
going to focus on this the topic of
using
new manuscripts of restraining that are
found throughout the generations
is going to explore this in depth has
things that that are rumored about what
he said what he actually wrote about
this and what the other the daily Israel
hold about this you know what did they
use but I think that's the place where
Red by Brat is going to start season two
yes I I'm gonna start with that in one
second I'm just I'm just backtracking
for one second to begin with a curse
atave at the outset of season two
because I never imagined that there will
be so many episodes up till date we're
up to 10 episodes we already did
I never learned to suggest and his vast
literature carefully
I still didn't I don't know if ever will
be because it's never ending but thanks
to all that for hosting it from Aisha
Suede and Usher tester working on all
the technical aspects spending hours
there's lots of times different things
go wrong it's lots of the sometimes
there's different delays it's not easy
to be clear these episodes were not
these are not being these were not paid
for up till now by
um this was just a volunteer basis of
everyone over here
we found some of our Hashem who offers
to help with the reduction of the course
of season two and as they say the main
chemical entire Hashem for that but
these episodes take many hours to appear
all feedback is appreciated or comments
of all types especially in the next few
weeks if you um we have to Veer out as
it's going to take time to get to what
we want to say
and the in the past people reach out and
say the different ideas of different
shearing that they want people to give
and the answer is they could be given
but okay now
um so the first point that I would like
to do is is to take a deep dive in
something that we already mentioned
already from the outset in different
form of hankevski is that if you look
carefully you see that he's he's managed
up to date with the restraining that are
out there on the market he's not just
using a standard the standard let's say
richaralgia ramban who we might have who
said that is even stand there but for
some reason we accept that to be
standard he's quoting everything just
just to mention what I'm referring to
they print it in the safe as far which
I've quoted numerous times some pages of
his uh card catalog so to speak Of Swarm
that he had which we'll return to but
let's say in exactly skadushan he lists
he says the taste is really entices
and he has kadusha written
then he has um
he mentions and the few different
classical
that he gets as time goes on
um that are only coming out as the time
as time moves on so we see he's using
the Swarm
the introduction of their hamuna he
spells out clearly that he's using Manu
that he's using stuff that I just got
from manuscript
um
stuff wasn't even on the market at the
time he had connections so to speak he
had he was xiaomi based on manuscripts
and drum he had the Russian manuscript
he had the remarket said it was just
published from manuscript and other such
things right away if you open up there
you don't have to turn anywhere before
the first page he's already quoting tell
me the remaining time but come let's put
out by the blood
he's quoting the eeries immediately
Robin bastard which is on the side of
the gemara only published by shots in
the chassis Wilma for the first time in
the 1880s so we see Rohan kanyevsky and
we've mentioned different things we've
thrown out that is using all the
nutrition
um now
so the the point at hand what's the
point of all this is that
first of all it's an interesting topic
in my biased opinion and it's worthy of
exploring carefully as you'll see it's a
great it's a great it's a great
importance to study the library of an
album godo can help us understand him
and say we could see what he saw
sometimes we can learn his methods how
to learn up sugius based on these some
of these things that will hopefully pull
out
and throughout this presentation in the
next few episodes also we'll see
practical examples of some of the tools
and why it could be helpful possibly in
someone else's in your own learning
it's very important to study in general
a live a lot libraries are very
important to Marshall the famous review
them and tibin wrote it savata his son
that from the something to the effect
first he says something that you know
make sure you have a nice Library so
people so you can lend to people and
this is in the Middle Ages then he says
with that with different
Israel from you can learn a lot from the
person what his interests are and stuff
like that
we know
um a famous famous thing from rubitza
can Panton this is before the base yasuf
says
so therefore he says Farm
are very important and there's a lot to
say about this okay
um
now What's significant over here is
um that
knowing what what I hope to show a lot
of times is if you understand the
bibliographical information one's far
more available and everything it's going
to help understand a lot of different
things okay this is a short agama to
what we hope to accomplish okay thank
you for that introduction
in the past you've mentioned many times
that the Abrahim kanesky in this forum
you could see the quote-unquote
influence of four different
um people from previous generations and
this generation his father the stipler
the Mr Brewer and then going further
back right the Vilma going and uh back
to the kazinish obviously his uncle as
well I'm sure these people played a role
in how Heim went to the sugya of using
new manuscripts and recite them as well
right that is yes yes that is definitely
what I would use as a springboard to get
into based on that introduction that
I've mentioned a bunch of times yeah
exactly so what which to be more
specific is this files I want to show
that if you one looks at the mission Abu
very carefully and understands how the
mission Brew is written and then we'll
be able to see that this was a model
that we already mentioned in a lot of
aspects he took the mission Brew even
even in how it looks like its mom which
looks like a missionary with a charity
and everything he he used it even
further
okay now so for this point as a general
introduction for the there's the mission
of Brewer which we're going to quote a
few pieces from the mission Brew about
his method specifically through China
and then we'll give throughout today
we'll give
um specific examples of surgery but as
as far as the Khazana
which has become known as Kazan is
opposing using New China
um
there's this
exists and is true on some extent one
could see from different places already
in 1954 the khazanesh the the it was out
in the world in in already in
Switzerland the three the aish writes in
a letter to with her song he says Agave
he says
don't bring anything that they found
after the basis event to print don't
bring it involved it's not important for
the world of Allah and so so he heard
this um sheet of the khazanesh with
destler and art Israel who was able to
have in while he was actually it seems a
close question he also brings it down
the letter talking about it and we'll
see perhaps later on
more about what exactly what destler
says with this thing but the problem is
with the Khazana General to understand
what exactly what bothered him what
exactly was Ishita this a lot of ink has
been spilled in the past bunch of years
trying to understand it what what what
caused them to create such a shita and
what exactly was his issues in general
it has to be spoken out as follows wrote
an incredible incredible amount a lot of
it he published not everything that he
published that he himself published he
had people helping him he had nephews
helping him and others in recent years
has not stopped writing there's so much
material that keeps on coming and coming
and coming the gift that keeps on giving
the Marshall in recent years is a set
called
This is this has tons of new material
and sometimes what the problem is is
that and this is a great problem in
general with in order to understand a
sheet of his you have to know the
context what's going on and when it was
published in the various writings pieces
are taken out things and we don't know
the context why was he saying what he's
saying and in order to understand things
you need many times especially in Allah
is you need to understand the context so
Robert zilber Robin
quotes in a few different places and he
was certain person who knew the Khazana
was into the Khazana
says in general take for example
very hard to rely on because we don't
always know the context and a lot of
times when you go through the theories
the new data that keeps on coming out so
someone could have written about the
causation in the 1980s he says one way
because he only had x amount of material
and it just keeps on coming more and
more things and we now get more and more
insight to understand
deeper understand what it has in the
Shell okay so Amir Hashem I hope to
present in the future what the kazanesh
holds based on collecting from as many
places I was able to find that he talks
about specifically okay but in general
just to say it in one sentence is he's
opposed to the usage of new discoveries
of Russia okay now
but the mission Brewer
is not what does that mean the mushroom
is not so so here we have
again I've quoted numerous times that
the best source for the mishnaburra is
his son but before we get to his son
already in the mission Brewer himself
writes in
a line towards the end of his
introduction
when he after he lists this farm that he
had this farm he used gamma he passed
himself
so first of all we see he's very proud
of this he mentions it it's very
important to him and he has a lot of
refine him what is the word Allah mean
so I hope in the next few weeks we'll be
able to understand more what that means
but he and and but I'm I was I I use
them but he sounds like he owns them and
say there's a lot of Legends and all
different types of stories of how how
did he have all this stuff here it
sounds like at least the sephiro shine
him he owned now
who helped him as we mentioned in
previous episodes in this first season
helped him with the writing of the
mission Brewer so at one point he writes
that when we learned he was Amal to get
a hold of every reason that was out
there even aquarium he also tried to get
a hold of but Michelle was very
important to him
elsewhere he writes in the same
um
elsewhere describes this as um hold on
he says
when we learned we would start from
scratch especially when we're working on
the mission Brew because they also
worked on other projects and we learned
and he starts listening and he says we
started with the Riff and after we
learned to suggest of course with all
the parallels we learned the Riff the
rambam then he skips and he starts
listening at me him he says tices
the rush
smack tumor zarua then he goes on
together
we did not skip those either so in short
the mission Bureau made it his business
to get a hold of the Jewish and he uses
it
um another Point another time he writes
the same thing so basically the half a
Time son writes Us in another place in
the safer that we've got and learned
Etc so we see it's very important for
him to see all this
now so much important so important for
him we shine him in general he's in 1902
the rajbah menachas or later on it's
it's not really we know it's not really
the rational but it's a short region he
um he he goes ahead it was printed in
1861 for the first time and hadn't been
available let me make sure to publish it
to make sure for people learning kachem
that they should have it available so we
see he has a tremendous love for you
okay now
one has to keep in mind that we're
spoiled you walk into any sperm store is
that any shoe and people in their homes
right for their bar mitzvahs have been
getting sets of Rich items this was
unheard of thing even 50 years ago
forget about as the further back you go
okay
um now just to mention one
um two three examples in a broad sense
and then we'll move on to the main
points over here
is in in a charity in a race Crest where
he's talking about the Nusrat of the
broccoli how we end off so we he brings
down the magnavram says we say of Allah
where's the
Magnificent he says brings down rashadam
let's say now like this and then he says
so he here it's not I'm not trying to
show him using fancy we show him so to
speak but he's using a lot of Hashem
that you have to understand in the 1880s
it wasn't found so easily and this is
what he's proud of he's using it to
argue on the Magna front now turns out
it might not be that there's no one that
holds the other side he even begins this
piece to turn another drum but that's
not that's beyond the scope of our
discussion La Marshall a quick search
shows he quotes the ritva over 700 times
in the mission Brewer that's a
remarkable number
again why because you can see the
beautiful wasn't so available not
everyone had it like today every Bar
Mitzvah boy um a few years ago still was
getting a set of cooked Ritz or it's a
big thing
and just to conclude one last General
example he's talking about um a specific
thing and then he says
that also supports what he was trying to
bring out any any quotes a few times so
we see and this anyone who learns Mr
Brew which most people today are very
familiar with the safer you're always
seeing he's talking about and this and
that so we know he doesn't
okay
that's the general
um background with the with the mission
improve
so you want to give an example of a few
that may be that these were printed
recently and he still uses those
yeah yeah exactly so I'm going to give
some I would like to give some more
specific example and without a story for
to go move on with our story the
following is like this is
in the mission of brew and beer Allah he
says his followers
a search shows that he brings the our
zaru of something like 308 times okay
now the numbers are not exact because of
different aspects of getting numbers but
he quotes it quite a few hundred times
some of them are because of the dark in
Maisha which he had and that was they
had however
what's the story with this so the story
briefly is it's a it's a incredible work
for mauritian who was active it seems
he's born around 1250
um he's sorry he's born in 1180 dies in
1250. so he's early reason
tons of Messiah are also found in here
besides his own stuff and it's very very
important but we showed him had it and
then it disappears
a lot of work has been done about this
just to mention there's a a masters from
Dr Uzi Fuchs with some articles and most
recently Professor simply Emmanuel and
the Ali safer Journal 31 has a whole
article with the history of the print
how it came to be printed because
it seems to be that it was lost at a
certain point in time we're not clear
exactly when it was lost but it seems
the Rama had it and dark emotia he uses
it extensively and it seems that he's
quoting it from a primary source but as
already as a generation or two later the
maram says we don't have it in Europe
already so it got lost somewhere around
it just understand
a little bit what's the significance of
this removing my goal is points out
something that we find in the baralaka
really also is that the magnav rum would
a lot of times ask questions under Rama
whose a certain sacrifice was based on
our zura
had the but the mug in the front did not
have darzuru already was we said it was
already missing from the times of them
around it's a little before the magana
so I had them but the Rama had it so he
would argue on a circumstack of the Rama
because he had a question he didn't see
but if but the it turns out when you
open up our zarua you'll see that the
question is not a question but the Rama
didn't bring down that part so but he
knew that information that's possibly
why he reached this conclusion had the
mugan of rum had the urzarua it's very
possible that certain questions and
certain succumbers he wouldn't have even
created had he had the Hebrew this is an
interesting piece and theory that needs
to be checked into much more of a
removing my goals but what the Mr Brewer
does this all the time he shows if you
had you can understand much more and he
uses it in understanding even there are
more and also as he uses otherwise for a
different solutions now when is this
printed for the first time for
manuscript only in 1862 and and that's
not even the complete thing it takes
time for the rest of it to be published
so you see
that he's using some Mr Brewer's only
um really starts starts being published
in the 1880s
now just understand the mission is not
the only person that's excited about man
others are also out of the value of them
I'm just going to mention one example
is written his Fame his claim to fame is
he was a little Fisher of and he's an
uncle his name is he's the uncle of the
arsamer so as far as Luke Fisher
standards that gives you a lot of cousin
so in short he prints the safer in 1874
and then he and then he puts out another
Edition
um an additional part a few years later
what what happens is he basically was
asked the Shyla about a giving a get to
a person that's a cherish and he
couldn't he didn't have open sources
about it so he goes and does major
research and he and he does and he puts
out a safer about it he says if the
Shiloh came to him and he didn't know so
Vice Christ it's his job to to explore
this topic he took a topic that there
wasn't much written about and he wrote
All About It incredible and then he
comes out he starts dealing with what
about someone who's a parish has to do
with evil and all different things it
needs Stars he creates the star for how
the get should look and how with ibom
and all different things he goes through
the circus so one of the things that he
needed was
is he gets he's so excited when he finds
our zarua because those who had
important information for his safer
anyway point is that in it was a it was
a safer that it turns out based on new
stuff that we have also used so even
though there's really a relatively new
manuscript and of course if you go
through there hamuna you'll see there
and ask username and it's extremely
important because there's a wealth
wealth of information in there
mishaburra is famous for one of the
people I would say that that made him
more famous
so the the there was precedent to use
this safer first being published from
manuscript it was lost for hundreds of
years and only rediscovered again in
1862. so this would be one sample with
the mission Brewer mind and going to
recycling as we also clearly using it as
I said others also
is this something
himself used it right you mean because
it got lost in between the Ramones that
were the significance is that mushroom
used it
ah so that that is a very good point
you're raising because like this the
whole what's
using manuscripts now there was no print
the answer is
no problem as long as it's in the base
Joseph what the base series have used
and he includes that Rama then it's
that's it so after that
if there are more quotes
is not talking about it but now if we
have a piece that the Rama doesn't bring
down because we opened up the 1862
Edition or the later Edition that's for
the castle but excellent helped me um
fine tune the point yes
okay fine
yeah
that stars the Rua
um everyone knows that
you open the safer the sheets that he
brings down there to be shining him
right you don't find and I shouldn't say
any other we shine them but certainly
not in the mainstream you shine him
um and we know the khazanish again
rumors I'm sure you'll find
um specifically written things about
them Eerie so talk about them Eerie now
for a few minutes
yes so the Eerie it's interesting is I I
have no idea why but it seems as the
Miri gets a lot of bad rap and this is
one of the topics that he gets very bad
rap so before anything so here we're
stuck with um for example one of the
works that came out of the haznish a few
years back was called maisa-ish so he
starts putting out one volume of stuff
about the kazanesh and other volumes
ends up putting out seven volumes in one
of the places someone said something to
him about him Eerie that he saw
something in the Erie and he says
um
I saw in the movie and this haslish says
some straight a very interesting lotion
you say it seems that it was a bit
there's a campy that let me reset it
okay I wasn't sure
um what that means but it could be we
will have an explanation at some point
or another what that might mean
interestingly enough
if you look you'll find
that on one hand
who just got finished saying that's what
the khazana's guide is he quotes the
Miri four times
okay in one of those four times the
khazanesh punct has a piece and he says
what can we do you have to rely we can
rely on this Mary and you can't argue on
it
he says some Allah
um
he brings them to me through the space
yeah he said he says he absolutely
it has to be that there's something
wrong with it but not with the swarova
Alma basically because this piece of
Miri is weird in the base here you see
if as you look at Lisa and he has no
problem with it okay now
but I said the mirror gets a bad rap why
if you look in the mission of Brewer the
mission Brewer search will show that he
quotes it 400 times something like that
that's a remarkable number
okay now
which we'll get to also he'll get he'll
be part of the story eventually he has
the um nearing he sees the mirroring
saviad and he quotes it
um I think the number at one point he
quotes it a hundred times
um I would say that are himself some of
those quotes
which we'll get to in a minute Miri
Wednesday born so the most current
research did a lot of research been done
on the movie in general but um
he's born 1249 and it seems that he dies
around 1315. okay he wrote a ton he
wrote on chess he wrote It's called
Hibachi
he wrote a safe France that's very
important for the suggest
safer he's in close contact with the
rajma as chuvres with the rashman okay
now in the old Ash urine that we gave on
Yuma I already mentioned that in 1766 a
Hebrew came had a numeral called The
Surge he had the Miri on saviar in on
Yuma and use it no problems a few years
later success Magilla comes out from a
manuscript no problems
had it was aware of it and we're talking
about in the 1770s quoting it no problem
okay where do we know about the Miri if
you learn about this on babakama does
she messes quotes a ton
in other messages we don't know why but
he doesn't quote it it could be didn't
have it but but the point is was quoted
him safer has an article which he wrote
in Esurance where he says that the
numerous he brings numerous sources
amongst them the radar and the ramir
simha that one of the side importances
of the Miri besides her being a reason
is that it helps understand the rambam
okay in relation to the mishnabura I've
came across a very interesting point I
have discussed to be working on the the
writings of ETA of web
and in some of his writings he has some
notes on the missionar in there he
noticed if you look at the last volume
of Michigan Brewer sometimes the mission
Brewer brings down he says like this
he says this more than once and turns
out that the Miri which is published on
sukkah in 1910 but the Mishra Brewer is
published in 1907. it turns out these
pieces are found in the manuscript today
we have them of the Miri on sukkah so
not only does the client quoted 400
times but he also has it seems Ethan
hankin points out that it should be it
could be something close to 10 times
he's quoting it based on manuscript okay
now just to make a little more
interesting okay so I remember a bunch
of years back
um you sure and had an issue with the
dedicated the laptop
was very fond of the Miri not only does
its kind he was fond of the mirror so so
far he was so fond that that um
seems one night he was one month of
Shabbos I think it was it was a late
night it wasn't a much traveled he was a
late night and he was he was feeling
weak and then they announced new
shalayim there's a levia who's the levia
of Rome Cipher
so um
even though he was weak and everything
he said he has to go why
so he says like this
I have a major occurs that tell you
under myth on the myth that he did by
bringing to the ulama the sifri rabena
with beautiful Horrors this is where
shanzam felt he was weak and everything
he went late at night to levia as it
murdered so you see from that also
Zalman had major hashes for the Miri but
more than that in Richland's writings
and you'll see he also does another
interesting story just to throw it out
there which ties back to the Miriam
Savion is that over a story The Emory
EMES who is known to be a credible
expert amongst other things besides was
a crazy expert on this Farm but he had a
massive machinodical library that only
recently have we begin to understand how
great this library was from a book put
out called oil REM from Maisha Hillel
anyway so what happens is is that
mentions that it seems he wants to
somewhere and um they show him and uhms
with a tremendous paquilla says that
this is um
Shabbos and I have a different one and
there's different shinuyam in the
masecta
and the kids are he was able he was he
was he was an artist role I think it was
so he knew he recalled what he had the
manuscript wasn't published at the time
and he had this Miriam Chavis and and he
was able to see some differences and
stuff from this other stuff yeah and
identified that this really is the me
that this is really the me read scenes
is by shallel and the safer brings us of
different parts it seems later on
they've realized that it might be a
different khuber of the Miri and then
more recently it seems that it might not
even be the mirror it might be a Talman
of the movie that there's two such works
okay but that's beyond the scope of
today anyway the point is that
the mirror is very important okay
now there are there is a famous sheet of
them here which we're definitely not
going to go into which so much ink has
been spilled on this about the urishit
is about Christianity what it means is
it and that could possibly some people
say it can't be that even wrote whatever
he wrote about Christianity that it's
not of like the Zara so that could be
when the Khazana also when he's saying
it that there's certain things crept
into the mirror so so let's say the base
if he brings down those four pieces of
the Miri some say the the she has no
problem with it it has the basis some
things that someone says but then he he
would be technically he might be more
nervous okay now but but it's it's not
only that the mission Brewer or about
this searching in the native's writings
and the natives before the explosion of
the miui's materials he quotes the Miri
146 times and this is just searching in
maroi mesada
so he had very he mostly wasn't
published and he's still managing to
quote a crazy amount of the iris and the
Not only Miri Zimbabwe comes with also
Magilla it's also it's the stuff that's
out there Le Marshall Robert Ashkenazi
was just mentioned from a sheet of bets
as he says in when he's talking about
amudai in a specific chuva he says as
follows
Arif around
so he puts him in the line up of of
um
the lineup of the the the amudahira of
the generations now anyone looks into
his farm we'll see he quotes it a crazy
amount of times so so is there any way
to to explain
um this nakuda so
what I would say is is that it seems so
first of all he I don't have a good
answer what if how does this work
because if the cousins just so Anthony
but it's clear and this um for one
example the this uh tiger he says that
he also brings this um
this point with the ramban that it's
very influential in helping understand
the rambam and we see that it's there
are definitely cases where it seems that
replyevsky held and yeah and this Tiger
has a list and a safer called nazarium
that there might have been there's
certain stuff that were somehow there
was a mistake in the Miri maybe someone
put in something somehow got inserted
into the salviad and that's what the
Khazana meant when I quoted in the
outset some told him there's a mirror he
says no to me we didn't say such a thing
because he felt there is such a thing
where Louisa however that might be with
the transmission
quoted literally hundreds and hundreds
of times I would say in the thousands
actually but the mission bura as we said
use the Crusader even at the manuscript
and it seems that he was involved with
getting it published so at Khan
um the next example of
of what will kanyetsky uses slash
machinaburra as opposed to the Hazen
issue
okay excellent let's stop over here we
went a little over half an hour we're
trying to keep these somewhat shorter
than in the than previous ones so double
yeser thank you very much and maybe let
us know where you're going to pick up
next time
so next time I hope to continue with
Robin hanano
and the missionaries
and talk about this topic some more of
Russian and then and then we're going to
go further and then after talking about
Robin we're going to go backwards and
and try to ice say is unique is the Cafe
Unique of doing this or there's a
previous Messiah so to speak of people
doing this that that will be the um the
next topic of Mirza which we hope to
record soon
okay thank you very much thank you to
everybody for listening thank you to the
sponsor again for any questions or
information please email eleazarbroad
gmail.com or myself schwade M at
ou.org we are also accepting
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topics
um related you know to this so related
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perhaps available please uh
come and be in touch with us thank you
very much have a wonderful day