Dealing with Trauma | Full Segment

Welcome to the Unite to Heal event in support of Amuim. Thank you for being here. Shalom. Shalomi. So, I'm Rael Franco. Um, I live in Noon, Shalabim. I'm a mother of seven. I'm a Torah educator. I work at Nishmat and Matan. Um, I do. And this is my very good friend, Noah. Noah, you want to say something about yourself? >> My name is Noah. I'm originally from live in Ephra, married to Ellie with eight children. Um I uh I work I have a nonprofit organization called we have a special program that we work together and I called Ola which uh working with Jewish women in Europe streng strengthening Jewish identity for Jewish women in Europe and um yeah I'm I'm always happy to be with you. >> Say a word about the army. >> Okay. Um also I'm uh serving uh in the IDF uh working in Shur base. I'm also leading the teams of the female Kadisha of the IDF. So actually just before we started you came from the base and you didn't want to take this video in your uniform you ran to change. Um where did we meet first? >> Where did we meet? Um okay so for me uh you were the famous Raeli Franco uh I have a son my son studies in yes my sonai was in and he was close to your son and I remember when your son uh is one of the three boys that were kidnapped 11 years ago. Um so u we were all devastated like Ola Israel and obviously when we so close to Deiva and my son was very close to your son. So we were really lit chilly in the story and I was watching you and following you and thought what an amazing woman you are and then uh a few years later I started to uh open a program for Jewish women the Ola program [snorts] and I I really wanted women to inspire and to connect. So I thought okay I'm going to call Ra Franco famous Rael Franco. I get this phone call from uh this lady that said >> and you said yes >> you don't know me but and the but was I have this tremendous dream of uh working with with women all over Europe no matter the denomination no matter uh you know just women that want to connect to their um Jewishness [snorts] >> and and just bring women together and learn Torah together. And I was trying to understand um at at which point you know where does this stand you know you want something for tomorrow for next week and she said no it's it's a dream at the moment said >> great when this dream comes true uh call me [laughter] and actually a year and a half later it did and u we've been having these seminars in different uh countries in Europe. >> Yeah. >> Um so that was part one for me. Then in on um and the days that came after it um we were all looking for what can we do and what can we do? We found ourselves in in different roles of what can we do. Um, I found myself somewhat having contact with hostage families and um, and then with Jewish communities from all around the world because people people were just pouring in goodwill trying to and and they kept on asking what can we do? What can we do? And one of the things that was very meaningful meaning meaningful for me is from my own personal experience to to let people know that um when when they reach out when they um first of all in prayer but beyond prayer with help with packages with um it's not just something they're doing to calm their conscious because they're far away. It really makes for me the the support that we got from Jews all over it kept our sanity. It was uh it was a very very real thing and I I was I found myself speaking to communities saying keep it personal, keep it uh keep it going. It's it's it's it's not a show. It's a real thing. It's very significant. And another place I found myself in a tiny way was I know that um not only you were drafted as uh as the head of the Kadisha at the time you were uh you were a member you weren't ahead yet and uh but but you functioned that as a head because your commander was away and uh and then I think four of your sons were drafted and your husband was drafted and I remember hearing about this scene where you walk out of the house in the middle of Khag uh you need to go to the base and oops you don't have a car because actually your husband was drafted to the northern border and and he took it with him and and then there were a few times uh during that time that where I found myself doing this tiny thing of picking you up from the base trying to get you home for a few hours going back and it it took time to understand what you're really doing there and what you people are really um physically dealing with and and everything that was coming to Shur everybody that was coming for to sh um I'll tell you one thing I remember from then from then it was you saying I feel I'm doing a I'm in this chaos I'm taking a piece and returning bringing it to its orderly place. I'm I'm helping, you know, put a tiny piece in in place. And so, we had some quality time there. >> Did I ever say thank you? >> I think you probably said a million times. >> Yeah. I don't know if I told you. Um I do I really remember one of the like sometimes it was 2:00 a.m. in the morning and you you you like it's like you're in a different place. You're in a different world. you you seeing the horrific sites and all the victims that came, the civilians, the soldiers, the ter everything that was going on there and trying to identify that was the first few days and uh and then I I wanted to go home for a few hours to be with my family and I like and the first time I think I was just hitchhiking in the street and I was like people were like smelling me in the car but I remember I remember like when I told you and you came to pick me up that I was I was so happy because you need someone to speak on the way. You need someone to talk. You need someone to understand you. Um but I was also I don't know if I ever told you like always um like like I feel like I was selfish because I needed you and you helped me and I ignored >> I ignored your pain. I ignored no because I'm thinking your son was in shur >> you know your son I mean it was at the time actually >> yeah but then they came ah right but our people were >> Yes. like in the same >> it's the same the same rabbis the same people >> many sometimes we have those discussions because because right I I I don't say that the job like whatever we do with the with the victims and kadisha and identification and and the tihara and the working with the families but it's it's like it's different like when when I see a family and now part of my job in army is to go to people's home I'm stepping back and I know that like I'm just I'll give you an example I'll just explain what you mean. Going to people's home means the pe the the the woman the soldiers that you took care of. Eventually the families get to the stage where they might want to speak to the people that dealt with them. >> Yeah. >> And you go to the family and you feel and you meet the parents and the siblings of that soldier. >> Yeah. I can meet the parent Yeah. the mother of the child that was killed and I was with her. And um I I remember in the beginning of the war when I used to come into the base and get into the gates, there were families, you know, waiting to hear hundreds of families there. >> And I I used to onenses. Yeah. On the offensive like this. And I used to describe it like, can you imagine someone that is standing on a cliff and and like someone pushing down the cliff down and and he didn't fall yet? That was my feeling like this is what they are like the shouts you know people like someone gave me a piece of favor and said can you find my child there. Um so I I really remember that but my experience was like standing and seeing those people falling from the cliff and I can't help them and they didn't fall yet. So I'm still holding my breath but I'm not falling. They are in that fall. there's there's a some some kind of a a respect of you know of I have no words to say that [laughter] >> no so I I feel like like I you just you just didn't think of yourself and you completely >> that wasn't you know we were all looking for our you know where can we fit in and and here there was something very small that was you know part of the ethos of Kadisha is this almost secretive uh way function. You don't talk about it. You don't want people to know about it. And in the first few days that was you didn't your younger children didn't know what you're doing. And when everybody disappeared and was drafted into the army, they did not know. It took a while until you understood, you know, everybody eventually found out. And there was also a bit of a change of a state of mind where >> we all understood that the world has to know. the Jewish world has to know and the world beyond has to know and that wasn't in your DNA as a so at that time just being the the the minutes that it took from Sh to Erat being with someone that you're willing to be open with it was a big deal you know it's so it was my totally my to be there it's not it's not the issue >> interesting okay now that we we're speaking you reminded me um that in the very beginning of the war people came and asked uh what's happening and to be interviewed. I wasn't so comfortable to speak definitely in Israel and it's so sensitive. Uh but the first phone call that I got from I think Rabbi Bishvkin one of the podcasts he said can I please speak with you and I thought no ways I'm not talking I'm not sharing uh and I called [snorts] I called Ellie he was in army my husband and I called uh I called Raoua and I spoke to you just said to me you have to and it's something that I I always you know like I really thanking you for that that I understood and it gave me a lot of strength and a lot of resilience. to deal with that understanding that what happened in Shur it's not my story and if it's the story of Israel and when you have such a pain and you go through things that it's part of Israel you share it because it's not about me so I don't care if you know what I'm wearing so much and about all those things that you can be nervous when you are you know under cameras like now you just you just do it you just speak and you just you just give it you give the story of am Um, and I remember I remember like I remember you gave me qu for that and it's uh it's huge this gift of be able to to share. >> Thank you. >> The truth is I >> I guess it's also healing to speak about it, right? >> Yeah. >> I I a story comes to my mind. It's it's Ku not in the right time of the of our conversation, but I remember speaking somewhere along the years and and then coming back to that same yeshiva the next year and usually, you know, it's it's a one-year program, so you meet different people and and this guy comes to me after after the lecture um and he says, you know, I heard you last year and I said, I you know, I must have bored you. I repeat myself. It's uh and he said, "No, actually, I just I'm coming over it to you to tell you because when I walked out last time, I decided to call my mother that I hadn't spoken to for four years." >> Wow. >> And first of all, this is not about maybe it's about and the power of of, you know, that people that we lose still have in the world. But I I then thought that me sharing it, you know, it was just talking about motherhood and about what you miss, you know, it's not you you you're never sorry that you didn't go to somebody's graduation. That's not the issue. It's you you miss hearing them fight. You miss you miss our our dayto-day. So I remember speaking about that and I figure this guy um I imagine that that he walked out and he said actually I have such a relationship in in in my life too uh I don't want to miss out on it. >> Wow. >> And and it was it was more about the power of sharing and about the power of of talking about things and because we all we're interdependent, you know, it's >> and blessing come. Yeah. >> A blessing comes. Yes. I think I think if if you already I don't know within if if may I say that um I think for me the essence of speaking about it is um really understanding that it's not it's it's like not my story it's it's something that happened and I think it's give you a lot of because in in a way you are in a lot of pain and obviously we cry a lot a lot um even today there was a like there was a levia that coming out of the base and and you have tears and you cry almost on a daily basis and when you definitely when you go home and you hear about the girls or >> are you allowed to say which Levia came out of the base today? >> Uh this morning was >> after 11 years >> and then um the and he was aloof he was um the buner that was passed away. So there was tulot that tulot that came out >> today. Uh but I think understanding um the like you sort of not the attach yourself but you feel like you're here to serve. Okay. Speaking about you know obviously everybody want to be part of that and when you understand that you have your job and you need to do what you need to do. The whole story with looking you know doing is not nothing about yourself. you you you do what you can and um and that's it. You you're sort of a a soldier. You're a servant. I I came to serve you. It's one of the strongest sentences that gave me so much. I I remember I remember I I I think I said it many times in many places that I stood on October 7th and like and I saw what I saw and I didn't understand what's going on and I say you know you know you say hashem save us gave us success but mainly and you know you want me to wash dishes I'll wash dishes you want me to you know wash people that we k whatever whatever you want me to do I'm there for you understanding that we are part and we're doing what we need to do. Um, it's something very humbling and something that gives you a lot of to do it. And then you want me to go back home and wash the dishes and [snorts] and do the washing and shop, go to the supermarket. So, go for it. I'm doing it. Actually I have something that I I'm thinking about when as you talk um recently we we were in uh in in beginning of and we hear uh about as a warrior >> and it's interesting that these people that that we think of as righteous people sadikim uh David Yeshua They they they didn't only sit at home being righteous, okay? When they had to fight a war, they fought a war. And and it also connects to our DNA now because the war started because he his his nephew was taken hostage >> and and the DNA of of uh taking care of taking care of it, doing everything for the hostage, even if it means, you know, you'd rather not get involved in war, but but you are. and and then uh after the war kadeshu speaks to to Abraham and tells him don't fear okay >> I'm with you don't be afraid now usually and actually each of our at some point is is told by don't fear don't fear but usually it's about what's ahead okay it's don't fear this because you're going to go down to mit and it's going to be Okay. And don't fear this war. I'll give you power to go into the war is told you're going to fight. Don't fear. Okay. Here it's a postwar um you know. Yeah. It's like trying to um quiet down a postwar anxiety. And I I think in a way that's something we're dealing with now because um as a society here in Israel and the Jewish world altogether, things are starting to calm down. You know, was brought to Israel today and there are no more soldier hostages in in Gaza. There are still four. We're waiting to to come home, but we're done with soldiers >> and and all the lives won. We got and we got to the point in the war and things are happening. Okay. >> Yet there's so much we have to deal with now. um in a sense dava as we say in Hebrew because we're postwar uh a lot of challenges um a ton of of of mental issues that are that we all know are there and going to come up and some that people hold on to and keeping uh very uh very strong but we'll have to start dealing with where we in many ways we're a post-traumatic nation and and a lot of challenge challenges of you know a lot of the unity that was kind of holding up as long as we're in war and now we know that there a lot of things that are that about to come there's so much that we have to deal with at this stage Davka because we're starting to feel the end of the war this specific war you know it's not like peace on earth but um there is so much to deal with now >> and and you said if I need to wash holy soul soldiers, I'll wash holy soldiers. If I need to get back home and wash dishes, I'll wash dishes. But doing that transition is not so simple. >> It's not. >> Um, in a way there was one of the songs in the beginning of the war was uh giheroes and it tells the story how the your uh uh the Yeah. the teacher and the clerk from the bank and the thing, you know, they all have day jobs, but then when there's the quote, they take out their cloak and they put it on their shoulders and they all become superheroes and they go out to and >> and then they come home and they are >> right and then there's something very I'll say not simple in folding away the cloak. Okay. Um, this stage has its own challenges and its own difficulties and you know first what do you feel about it? I'm sure you have your perspective on it. >> Uh, what do I feel about it? First of all, I experienced it a lot with my own soldiers that they find it sometimes hard, you know, you don't want work there, but doing so something so much meaningful and then coming back and you know putting a business together um started to do the regular tasks in the house together also we all you know uh we our husbands our sons um even in my own family like I have someone very close that she you know with anxiety and and the husband is still doing milim he lost so much weight, he doesn't want to eat. Um, there's a lot going on. I think everybody is experiencing it. Um, you said a and you like you describe it so beautifully. Mash, thank you for this piece of Torah. But he said who says and when you said just now um it gave me comfort because I am I am I feel like you know especially as a woman and a mother and a wife and and you know we have a shul so some people like to call me rabbiton and the community we have in Europe so you spread yourself in so many places and everywhere you go there's anxiety there's there's there's a war there's death there's loss there's there's injuries there's anti-semitism there's people missing like meaning in life. People feeling like they they were not doing enough for Israel. Sometimes people see me and they're thinking, "Oh my gosh, what you have done and and I'm like just did not like not I didn't do and I'm trying to tell them listen what you do everybody everybody do where Hashem puts him to do what they do." But there's so much so much going on. I feel like sometimes I'm, you know, it's like a lunatic like just everywhere you go there's so much happening with pain and and post trauma and tears. Uh but but again I I close my eyes when I really feel like lost a little bit and I I I I go back even to Shur and I always like I sometimes you know see myself with the Keshu like a little girl. I'm a little girl and I'm holding my father's hand and we walk going for a walk and we're crossing the road and it's a very scary road and it started to rain and and and there's cars and trucks and and then and then it's snowing I don't know and there's pits and we have to go and and it's it's hard and then you you think like you finish the journey and then you go for another piece like this is now but I'm holding Aba's hand is with me so and not only that sorry like I want to say the post trauma that I'm dealing now and we all have to deal with that and you know for and for other organization like that that really support and help um I I even feel like it's Hashem's plans he has a journey that he's walking us through and I say to Hashem you know what if you want us now I'm Israel to walk through post drama I'm with you [snorts] like what do you want like we'll do whatever we can we'll support each other you want us not to you know like the help in the war was one way and now the help is with mental health a lot. So >> I feel that the fact that Abraham all our significant figures are told okay don't be afraid don't be afraid is with you I'm with you situation >> it it says something very um basic very profound about the human reality okay the the human journey in the world in a very basic sense is prone to be fearful. Okay. There are challenges that leave us, >> you know, like and and the relationship between our God and ourselves has a lot to do with you saying, "Don't be afraid. You're not alone in the world. I'm with you." And, you know, we're talking about the war and post-war Israel, but everything we're saying is relevant to other people with other challenges. and and you know part of my challenges started 11 years ago and and dealing with loss and it's it >> which by the way we we volunteer together in an amazing organ organization calledishua meni and he makes big shabat shabatonim in hotels with families that lost their children or or widows >> and uh and the I come there to help with different things and you come to to give from your experience uh to the mothers that they're thinking how how can I live again how Can I get out of my house? How can I smile and here they see Raeli that went through such a loss? And >> many many then I'm just one of the people. >> Yeah. So, no, but it's um like the fact that we sharing that you come with your experience and you give it to um it's incredible. There's a lot of you know comfort and a lot of [snorts] resilience and strengthening each other. >> Yes. >> When we really share everything, all our resources with so much love together. So I if I have to you know what I'm experiencing myself and with my friends and what you're saying um part of what we were saying was the the drop in both tension and energy and a meaningful activity. You know you were you were all tense and you were all for it and you were doing the most important thing in the world. And there's something about this lowering that that allows for even being in a safer space allows for some of the problem voices to to show up because before we couldn't afford it, okay? We couldn't allow ourselves to listen to some of those voices. So, you know, it's it's it's stepping into a safer environment sometimes that lets a lot of things finally get exposed. >> And even on a physical uh tension, you know, our bodies speak. Everything we experience in a way is registered in our body. and and sometimes our body is now acting up because you know we were all on the mission and and and sometimes you know it's it's the imagining a siren or a sudden noise or you know people are their whole body reacts to it. Um it's there's a process of of uh like it's a it's a bit of a limbo time. It's uh we're not there yet and we're not there and it's I think it's a time for healing and I I'm trying to think about the the the different tools that serve us um things things that come up as as far as uh as this [snorts] I I I can tell I can go on but um >> and I'm happy to hear like what do you see I can share Yeah, go ahead. >> One of the things I think um that a lot of people discuss okay is with the trauma I don't know if you how do you I don't know even the professional phrasing to those post-t trauma situations but many of my colleagues okay and not only in Shura also I hear it with combat soldiers or that situation happens in life and it takes them back to what happened okay it can be a sound it can be a smell right um it can be some something that happens and it brings you back to the room brings you back to what you've seen in October 7th and we all having those flashbacks. Um and um we have it we have it I mean we we have it um um it can be often sometimes it could be once once a while but I feel I feel again like if we're going back uh to feeling you know part of Hashem's plan with everything that I believe that um whatever we experienced in was very painful and we we've been exposed to really really evil things okay even our naked eyes so things that You don't even you actually I remember helped me to give me gave me confidence because I couldn't find the words to describe the bed. You can't say animals or monsters and then you said to me no there's no words for that and you don't want to we don't we don't have the words for that. It's not belong to us >> of vocabulary. >> Yeah. It's not it's not um it just it just all these evil things that you see just project how much good there is. And I know I believe in and I believe that there is a tun there's a correction all the time in the mit in whatever happens. So if I experience something really bad and now here I am stepping walking in the street and seeing something that happened to me again um this is Hashem's way to heal me to get to show me the same essence and idea. Sometimes it can be just you know the same sort of environment or something you know like a smell or a look and sometimes it can be more um act that is happening that bringing you back and it's a correction. >> Yeah. For example, I give an example. I remember when we were having the girls that came, these girls came from the south and they had leaves in their hair and I remember like taking the leaves off the hair and and like my hand was like this and I'm putting it gently and like there was a shelf in the room and I put it there and I remember like putting it down and looking at the leaves thinking you know sort of like this is where they like the the stone of Yakovino that was there underneath their heads until we brought them uh to Shura. And then few weeks later, less than like I don't know maybe 10 days later, my son come back from the army. He's in he's in the tank units and he has those big tangies thing, you know, that they're wearing and stinks and you know it didn't take it off for I don't know how long and I want to put it quickly in the washing. He had less than 24 hours at home and I'm shaking it and those leaves coming down and in my laundry on the floor. I'm picking it up, looking at the leaves, and here I am back in the room. Yeah, mama. And I I really I remember standing looking at it in my laundry with a smile from ear to ear and thinking to that eventually fighting those terrorists and you know your your name was disgraced in such a horrific way and the the blood that was poured with these girls and now here we are and the same the same leave is with our victory like he's he's a that came and he's you know fighting Um, so it was like little things like this that happen. I remember also like you know I like you wrap them with the inadisha and then and then I go to my daughter and there's a newborn and I'm doing the same act and this is new life. So so it's so beautiful it's it's it's life. I think the whole death experience is so painful but it just project for us what is life about you become eager for life. It's interesting when you talk about flashbacks as an opportunity for tikun, okay, for for it's a gift. It's a gift >> in a safe in a in a safe environment reliving the moment but somehow correcting the moment. And I [clears throat] think you know there are all kinds of trouble in the life but the one that we're talking about and other people experienced is a meeting with evil that affects our life. Um and part of the fear and I spoke to many people that you know in different stages of the work that you do the people that find that collect that [laughter] part part of the their fear and the fear of of us waiting for them at home is that some of that evil will rub rub down on us you know that it will stick to us in some way. I was exposed to to cruelty and somehow the cruelty is going to stick to me. And what was very powerful for me is there's this um when Ravk describes we mentioned the patriarchs as as also warriors. He says when they read the even when I walk in the valley of death I fear not evil because you're with me. He reads into it. I fear not becoming evil. >> Wow. >> I fear not. Okay. Okay. Because I'm doing this for I didn't choose this exposure. I'm doing I'm here to do the right thing. uh people from different situations that were exposed to cruelty. They were doing their best. It's not on them. If if a I won't turn into evil. It won't rub down on me. >> Okay. Which is to me it was a very powerful thought. Um in that sense I I also feel there's a lot of um of the physical that has to do with it. Uh [sighs] I I remember thinking uh after losing Napali um I'm okay but I don't want to get cancer from this [laughter] because I don't want it to all be internalized and and somehow uh yeah so there was a lot of meaning to I don't know to dance to run to walk to listen to my body to let myself sleep when you know uh uh I I know from time to time we encourage each other to to give respect to our to our physical being uh you know it's not like it's not like that. It's not like we can do without it >> and there's really there's divine wisdom in this body not only the in the soul >> and and giving it the time it needs and understanding that this is an ongoing process and some of it just has to come out from the physical and and and giving the proper respect to the physical I I think is is is a big deal. But can can I ask you something about it? Like I never asked you. I hope it's okay. >> What's good with Raal? You can always ask her whatever you want. Um like I'm thinking of the evil people that did what they did to your son. Like what? Ma like do they come back to you sometimes? Do you have >> um you don't have to answer. >> Sorry. >> I my my encounter with him was indirect. you know, it's I I didn't have the face to face encounter like many people in this world have, but um >> more on the >> I I chose not to look evil in the eye, but I chose to be part of the mission to fight evil. Okay? We don't come from a culture that served the second cheek. Okay? uh just because you were encountered as a victim doesn't mean that you have to continue being a victim. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> And and the resources in you and around you are the ones to help you out from that position. >> Um so that's you know but I found myself worried like everybody else. How are these you know these precious soldiers and and and the people and this and the civilians that were all out there doing what they can. How are they going to come home? you know is is what's going to stick to them and and I feel when you you feel you're doing things from the right value set in a way you're protected. Okay. >> Right. Um I'll I'll also say that that I I was discussing this with friends and um one was talking about let's say post post disease there's a stage of healing and the stage of healing is not the stage of being healed everything is is already there and she spoke about a a mature take on That thing that says maybe as a child I thought when something breaks then you fix it and it's done. When something was was sick then it heals and it's gone. My mature perspective on it is this is my new life. This is my new stage. It doesn't mean that I get the old one back. It might be much more. It might be it's it might be very different. But my mature take on it is okay here's here's uh hello. This is your new life. >> Remind me of one of the sentences that Rabani said to our team. She said uh she spoke to the not to our team to the wives of the people that are the men of Kadisha. So she said to the wives, you had marriage a a stage a number one with your husband before the war and now you say welcome and thank you for stage stage B >> and don't don't imagining you're there. >> Don't think that things will we all change. Nothing will be the same and just welcome with a smile there. >> Yeah. And then a very dear friend that was sitting there whose whose brother uh lost his feet um actually quite recently uh and she said you know now when I see the treatments my my brother is going through. So the doctor told him about uh phantom pains um how to deal with them. She said hug your your knee and your body is now ending here. touch it and tell your brain this is my new body. >> This is my new body. >> And and it's the way uh our our mind deals with welcoming this new stage, you know, the second marriage, the new life, the new these are the ends of my body now. >> And it's healing, but it's not, oh, I was sick, now it's gone. [laughter] >> I was broken, now I'm fixed. It's let's welcome our new life. This is shikum that everyone >> it's shikum and it's also expecting that in the end of the shikum I won't be that person I might be greater bigger different whatever but it's going to be the new stage like lum like it's it's in the process where I am it's yeah I'm not standing >> the the other thing he said which I I found interesting [snorts] >> is he said um you know when the pain when the pain comes you could deal with it you're going to have pain and you can deal with it it's the fear of the pain that's going to paralyze you. >> Wow. >> So there are things that we have to deal in that level of fearing the pain that comes that that they're very very significant and when it comes you'll be fine. You'll you'll deal with it. It's going to be okay. And it's true to >> Right. Right. >> I think this is the this is I don't know. >> It's our motive. This is the [laughter] this is the sub the conclusion the subtitles the highlights of >> Alira al yeah I I do you find there are specific tools that you say to yourself that you like mantras that I'm asking because I have my own ask yeah I have a new one >> okay [laughter] >> you know sometimes you have sentences that walks with you or you go to bed or you wake up in the morning or it keeps coming to you um So what what are your mantras? [laughter and clears throat] Yeah, >> I the truth is it always feels funny to um to repeat something, but when it's powerful, it's powerful. So So I'll I'll I'll share with you if you share with me. I'll um things that work for me. Uh one is this. I can feel pain. It's really it's like what what about the doctor what the doctor said. Okay. It's um I can feel pain. Okay. And he said it's gonna be okay. I can feel pain. Um I don't have to become my [clears throat] pain. >> I can I can feel you know sadness. I don't have to become my sadness. Uh it it works for for you know feeling tense, feeling anxious, feeling pressure. There there many things that this is something I'm experiencing. It doesn't define who I am. Um even in a way I don't know in in in the the circles we we we walk in in Israel one would I don't know bring a quote from you and then they might say oh shakula okay a berved mother hey you know [laughter] yes this is part of the package of my life it could be somebody else saying something oh he's a mental patient great this is a thing he's working with he's dealing with it's not what defines him. It's one of the many things, you know, in my inner landscape. There are there are um so many colors and shades and and and successes and failures and disappointments. >> What is you >> and you know what and and mostly there's there's there's great blessing and to me the core of whatever my experience is is is feeling blessed. Um, one could, you know, when they go through difficult things, they can pick up this bucket of PL paint and and black paint, whatever, spill it all over their being. It's a choice, okay? [laughter] And and and I know not not everybody in every point has choices. I I I realize that. But there are enough points in time where where we can choose what what you know what shade am I gonna and and who said any one specific shade has to define us in the end you know it's the whole it's the whole spectrum. Um so that that's a big deal for me. [snorts] Um um wow thank you. Uh I think sometimes I I used to start in the morning um and with the blessing for the morning how do you translate that to English give the is tired but like some like strength that I don't possess anything I don't possess the people said to me resilience you're so strong I don't know [snorts] I don't know you wake up in the morning and you ask Hashem for every day you don't you don't feel like you you possess anything um I think I think maybe the I I spoke about it before but like understanding that I'm I'm like just just being with with like Hashem is everywhere, you know, and um those kind of things that he's just everywhere all the time with us. Um this is um this is everything. Um yeah, you know what? One of the things uh I'm going back for the first year and thinking of one of the hardest time someone asked me today what was uh to tell a story of one of the the hardest time that I had so it was actually not in Shur base they took us all the all the group of the women and we went to like a retreat it wasn't really a retreat it was an army retreat um we have to grab our coffee somewhere outside this building but it took us for three two and a half days of resilience and we were sitting in a room and one of my kalot um when they open and spoke about things. So she she said she want to she want to tell me something [snorts] and what she was talking about was that it was a time of really you know crazy and busy and so many things going on and everything on the top of the heads and and she she just came in and straight away I threw her to work and she said you didn't even you know you didn't even say anything and I was shocked I was shocked to see what I'm seeing and uh whatever I ap and she said no you know I forgive you. I know that you I know that you were very busy and and you were in the middle of so many things and you meant well. And I remember um after everything finished and everyone went home and I sat outside and then I got into the car and then I was thinking about it and my tears came came down and that was very very painful for me. I said like I was so careful. We are so careful with the bodies with the with the V dignity covered for the people that were killed in the I can't even like it's just unbelievable um and the way that we we do our best with them and what about the the living people I keep people many times people say to me wow about my work and I say [snorts] I know these people that washing you know showering working in an old age home old people every night and they alive they're alive so so Um it's it's a it's a phrase that we speak a lot about in sh and it's called okay it's it's it's you have to give respect dignity to the person that passed away but we say in is the dignity of the living people so when I when I'm working in shurah and we have like even last week we had a a soldier that been killed in a car accident and I build up a team that was someone new and so I have to make sure that everyone respect each other that everyone feeling okay that if there's a woman that it's too much for her. You know that I'm noticing it. I remember in October 7th, the army had to really bring a lot of people to help with the trucks and with all what was going on. And they brought young men that were or and and you could see the fear and the shock on their faces and uh and we had to change the rules, you know, like sometimes you don't speak and now yes, we talk to them, we we have conversation, sort of maintain conversation to keep them to keep them, you know, normal. It's very interesting. We look back now a lot about what happened. uh we open a new unit during the war for um identification of of um [snorts] of civilians if god forbid there is a occasion of many many victims uh we were expecting it on attack from Iran but oh hashem thank god oh hashem for the miracles that we didn't have it one of the things that we learned is that the people manage mentally after the war when during the chaos during their work during the disaster they like sort of when they have the breaks they keep they have some normality sort of pockets of life or islands I call it they someone is talking to them someone is asking them if they want to drink something they're talking to their families they're going home people sometimes said okay I'm going to sleep in the car I had a she only wanted to sleep in the car she didn't want to go back home and like you try to p like just go home cuddle your child I don't know go see your parents do something um just keep your keep your connection with your family and then go back um for long distance they say it I mean um >> we're here for the long run. >> Yeah. Yeah. It also keeps you like you know like we spoke before our trips together. I I used to come home my husband wasn't home. I was worried about my boys but I first of all sat on the couch cuddled my boys and younger home. >> Yeah. Yeah. and I don't know just chatted with them just had coffee something but just being with them um >> there's still normality in the world somewhere >> yeah because people tend sometimes um when you really need to do something and it's so important and holy and whatever or fighting to just give yourself you jump and you like is also keeping myself normal keeping my family you are like sort of sort of working and like with open heart on your team and your commanders and the like everybody to see that like you see if someone is wrong, if someone is not okay, you know, when when uh when we god forbid do something wrong uh with the after we treat and finish we always say we ask forgiveness from the to see to say like whatever we did we did but you also you say you need to move them be really really careful and then I'm thinking to myself you know life am I like this with my the people with the people that I'm they're pushing me in a train or in the supermarket on the line or in the car, you know, there's always traffic coming back home. Am I saying come come? Of course, of course. So um I think the this awareness of understanding that this there's a hard situation that I remember the people around me and to look at them in their eyes and to see what they need and to speak and to love and um when when you manage to do it, it gives you it gives you k and afterwards when you look back at things um it's sort of tied together. I I I feel part of the the the things that you're talking about have to do with um not only the things that we go through, but also the things that people around us went through. And we're also, you know, fathers and mothers and siblings and you know, friends of people that are gone have gone through challenges. >> Yeah. whatever it was, you know, we don't even know all the way what they saw, what they experienced, what they went through. And and here we are not knowing what to, you know, to ask. Should we say, should we ask? Should we constantly check on them? Should we give them space? Should, you know, can we [laughter] what are we supposed to do? Check their pulse all the time. Uh uh start interviewing them. >> And also each of them is different each child. and and the needs are different and the stages are different and who knows what you know and it it's part of what we you know it's in the background of everything we're saying is the need for compassion towards them but towards ourselves and towards this stage of what we named as healing. Um, nobody's going to be perfect with this. And and it takes it takes, you know, the evil guys that were behind the scenes, they had no compassion. But what we learned from, you kept on saying it is is compassion and and it's just okay. So, let's be here for when they feel like talking, we will be able to listen. That's a lot. Okay. Um, >> and also, you know what? Maybe the token is not >> the hug and the cuddling, right? But if they choose when they choose, okay, we should be able to to receive it. And it's not so simple all the time. >> Yeah. >> Um >> my son came home >> and he said to my husband, um I need an aliyah. And he's not like aliyah chaser or something >> and and uh >> to go to the Torah. >> Yeah. To be called to the Torah. And uh and and Ellie says like what? and he says I need to say agomel he came back from Gaza so I was like and he did didn't say anything um it was also the situation um whatever just before Shabbath and uh on Friday night he started chatting to one of the one of the brothers so I just pulled the chair closer to them and started to listen so they had you know Trump said there's no no war in Gaza right but they >> she said >> yeah he's in a tank and there was Net and Hashem. Um they were fine in that occasion. I mean one of those that he was two soldiers been killed. Um and uh and you you like it happened to me that I was listening but you like you go through so much with them that you just you just you just want them to know that I'm there for them and I love them and no ego as a mother I need to know. I need to share like if my kids tell me it's mean that I'm a like just really being >> it's not about me. >> Yeah. >> Life is not about us. That's the story. Thank God. [laughter] >> They're they're um >> it's not easy sometimes because as a mother, you know, you want to like there's Yeah. >> Sorry. >> One one thing that uh comes to my mind really has to do with actually with motherhood. Um when Afali was born, he's my second child and I was all in with the experience of you know the you totally fall in love with your first child and I was wondering you know how can you even love another kid you know you're so totally your heart is is is filled up and I I was feeling very guilty like how I'm not good enough I can't do this properly you know something and it only clicked by me when I when I realized that I might have two boys, but he has only one mother. And there's something almost liberating about that because it's not only that whatever you are is good enough. Whatever you are is is at this moment the the totality of reality and it's not about chasing you know all kinds of could a should a would auh situation. It's you. It's it's you as you are. Just just be here and and and and letting someone else know that you're here, you know. So So for me, that was like a major change. um it's you, you know, and and and and you'll be there when they need you and and and you're around and and you're not running away and >> and the the deep breaths that you're taking now are maybe in preparation to something that at some point you'll have to hear or listen to or deal with. But just being who you are is a is a big deal, you know. >> Yeah. Just find that sometimes because there was so much going on so big things focus take the focus and then you are a mother but you're a mother for this child and for this child and you are a wife and you are rebbitson and like there's so many things that you you want to be your 100% to them as you are. Um >> yeah I felt like we need to daven for like I can't just say I have to just more connect to each each uh angle each you know >> request that comes in life. So in a way, you know, when we when we when we dam, so we have these little drawers, you know, the palnasa category and the and the and the wisdom category and all these little draws in Amida and I I found myself saying that also when we say mimm when we thank I can be specific and and then I met this side of myself that says well if if you don't cover the whole list you know something kala will be taken away from you and I found myself answering saying it's not about that. It's you know every every every time you choose one thing just be in this state of mind of recognizing your gift and and being grateful it's not this this um OCD of of I really have to cover it all otherwise it you know uh it won't yeah >> and and another thing that you were talking and but I disagree with you >> oh please do >> so then you you stand longer for Amida and it's not like an OCD it's a checklist that like I want I want to dive for each think I want to d for it. I don't want to say okay I'm focusing now like sometimes really you don't have time or you just hear my voice. >> Yeah. But uh but like really if you want to you know so you have to go through things and it takes time. Okay. That's why we women we don't need to rush in like that. >> Yeah. The other side of it is that if you want it to be perfect you never do it at all. It's not because of per I don't care if it's perfect or not, but it's like it's like like you really want to pay attention for so many that's why I'm trying to say that it's like it's like there's so many areas of things that been needed like we always said we were busy and then co came and then we became more busy with and like the war makes you like oh my gosh you know you have list of people like in WhatsApp that you even didn't open the message like when I'm [laughter] one of the guilty you should apologize front of the cameras, please. Um, so >> so so, so I you know what I mean? >> I know what you mean. And yet, >> um, >> I have to say the last word, so you can say yet. >> Oh, I still have many words. Uh, it's it's about sometimes doing what's good enough. Maybe you need to perfect it sometimes. At least you wish to perfect it. I think the ability to live with something imperfect keeps us praying because otherwise we would you know if in our mind it's always going to be 45 minutes it's never going to happen. So that's the thing. But besides just because we're we're we're here in a way also enjoying a lot of everything sent toward us, you know, all the all the energies, all the all the the prayers, all the that like we we each try our own thing, but really we're leaning very heavily on on everything, everybody that's, you know, giving us this hug. I I I feel like telling my Florida story. >> [laughter] >> It's it's a few a few years after the kidnapping, >> right? >> I was sent by my job to to uh to do something in Miami. And then we had a break for lunch and we went out maybe four or five of us to eat. And when we got up to pick up the check, it turned out that somebody had paid for us. And you know, it was very obvious what happened. Even though a few years went by, somebody with a great Jewish heart uh you know recognized me from the news, wanted to do something good and they picked up the check and and I was standing there and I I wanted to bury myself. I felt horrible. You know what? Can't I pick up, you know, like I can't pay for my own food. What's going on here? And this Harriet, this very wise lady I work with, turned to me and says, "Raeli, never feel feel bad when you're the instrument for somebody else to bring out the best in them." Right? Never feel bad when you're the instrument for somebody else to bring out the best in them. And for me it was it was such a Torah you know uh here we are reaching out to each other you know uh united to heal and and depending on each other and we always you know we tell ourselves you should merit to be on the giving side doesn't work like that there and and we have this song that um we're one human tissue we we breathe together and and often the the the greatest gift you can give someone is being a being being willing to receive from them. So it it even eventually happened that I I told this story on a podcast in the war and this amazing guy uh reached out and said, "I'm so sorry it was me. I paid for your meal. I didn't mean to make you feel bad." >> So you told him, "Okay, I'm going next week, too." [laughter] >> No, I told him it was such a tremendous lesson, and I'm walking around the world repeating it. It was a Torah that needed to come to the world. And um seriously, it's it's often we grow through somebody else. Somebody else grows through us. It's it's it's this relationship and it's a human relationship, but Am is like extra extra special about about making it happen. Um >> can I can I ask you something? >> Just I'm going back to Amu and what they do. It's just a question that I came up in my mind and I want to hear what you say because I'm you know not struggling so much with that but I want to know I want to get tips. So now with the situation that we said and especially after Khagim I felt like there's mental health everywhere with children with wives with husbands with I see people in my battalion or my unit in the army that are struggling to find a job or to go back and they so so you have you have all those you know situation different people dealing with different things and everyone say okay you've been through a lot take a big breath I mean give yourself the place understand that it's okay whatever you do it's okay if it happens to you that you shout at your house you went through a lot everyone will it's okay it's okay just you know accept yourself the way you are and then I find myself thinking to myself is what I do is okay like like how how what like how how to balance you know to accept you know the pain that we we we going through and the healing period and towards like I don't want to say being lazy. It's not the right phrasing. I don't know if it's a bit of a complicated question. I hope you get me. But how much I give myself discounts because okay you I you know I've been in Gaza and I was you know in tunnels and I was not changing shoes for 3 months. So now I can be at home not help in the house and um be too much on the on the phone with movies because I need my space you know like how much we we should take responsibility maybe the healing is is uh on the other hand you know doing good being involved not letting yourself saying okay you know I'm poor me I'm allowed you know to take a break of um doing good things or being nice. >> I'm not sure there's a simple answer to that. I as we are compassionate and understanding and giving ourselves space and taking good care of our bodies and our souls and and everything that comes with it. Often the the greatest healing tools for us is reaching out to somebody else. uh seeing that the world doesn't revolve around me and what I'm experiencing. Um hoping that you're uh in a way a [laughter] a tool or a pipe in some other things going on in the in the world and often you know >> so people say that no cutting down the movie space in five minutes you know is is my step for today for healing because I want to feel I'm advancing somewhere. Okay. So it's it's about the tool set that that you're using and small steps could be huge tools. So we weren't perfect before. We're not going to be perfect tomorrow. But turning to a person that is in a very hard spot and have has very very low energies and they can hardly handle what's going on in their internal space and you're telling them look at this guy and that guy and that. Sometimes it works and sometimes you tell him, you know, try doing the tiniest thing for that guy and it will make you feel better and you'll have more energy to pick yourself up to to function in the world. And you know, it's it's fine to tell a person there's a lot of even satisfaction that comes from from understanding it's not all about you. There's something I feel is a tremendous treasure in my life. uh and I'm I I wish it [clears throat] on men too. I think I think women have it more than men and that is uh the friends you you can really uh talk to. uh for us we we have the sister I I also have a group of friend that that is is willing to to openly discuss thing and always and it's it's such a it's a priceless treasure and I know you know some of us are luckier than others about but some some of us have it in hands reach we just not we we don't reach out to get it you know we we we let we let these gifts just you know sometimes especially if you're a man and you're not used to speaking to your friends. [laughter] So I I I just want to give it uh cavod the this this being a friend is is is be met it's such a gift you know I'm honored to >> no so I mean I for for me obviously obviously you're a gift um and especially in the war and to speak about things I have to say I mean that I I'm always nervous especially in those situation because uh because like because of the pain that you went through in life and to be a very good friend and love you so much and like sometimes when I start just to think about the pain you go through like my tears come and I like you always you know you you're smiling and you're positive and you give and life and and all of that but but there's something there with the pain that um that I'm always um that I'm in I'm in a pain for just thinking of all the pain that you and your family went through. >> Look who's talking. No, but [laughter] Okay. No, but I just I just want I just want to say that um in the army, okay, part of the things that they do with us is that it's very important for them that we'll go to psychologist or speak or do massages etc. Okay. And and the the army also give us like different people to speak with us as a group or individually if you need. Um but I feel and and then um even like I can give a receipt and like they will pay back for a specific amount, right? Which I didn't do so far. So I feel like after this session u maybe um um I just had a psychologist session with >> Frank we should pay because they get they gave us the opportunity [laughter] >> actually we could go on for hours but >> so thank you for the session just want to say thank you for that um you know being able to connect to people and with an open heart um it's a it's a big gift and it's a healing and uh I think It's one of the things we do together is going to Europe and and getting together women from I don't know 20 30 countries and we're learning Torah with together. We're not teaching to her so much. We learning Torah together and somehow being um with so much loss being surrounded with death morning till night and like you know last week I was four days in army and in the base and so so much of death like the opportunity to you know to be with women in a living situation inatim situation it's one of the it's like I don't know it's the thing for me the opening p this is the best psychiatrist in the world. >> Yeah. In a world that is dealing with a lot of loneliness. >> Yeah. As a >> reaching out to the people that you're willing to talk to and they're willing to listen. It's a it's it's just a tremendous treasure. It's like we could go on for hours. >> Yeah. It's not even it's life. This is it. >> Yeah. Your friend, we should thank for this opportunity. >> Thank you. Do you want dinner? [music] >> [music]