Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 9a

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay good evening RAB we're continuing with we're learning it's a very short and we're moving on from the previous mishna and we're going on to a new topic we know that in generally making commitments is something that potentially could be frowned upon because you may not be able to keep to your commitment so you might be better off doing what you need to do without formally committing to it beforehand uh in it says whatever you Val you should pay but better not to vow then to vow and not pay so in general making vows are associated with the wicked not making vows are associated with the righteous so we're going to um now discuss somebody who phrased their NE in association with either the wicked or the righteous somebody said that they're going to make a vow like the wicked then The Vow is effective it could be n it could be a vow benaz it could be AER acceptance carbon it could be an obligation to bring a carbon or it could be an obligation to swear because the wicked vow So when you say you're in fact saying I want to make a vow like the wicked well the wicked do vow so if the wicked vow then what you're saying has validity but if you Sayid like the vows of the kosher then what you're saying is meaningless because kosher people don't make vows but if you say like their then then it could be an effective or or carbon because even though don't make they do make and the difference is you say har and therefore the acceptance is upon you yourself and if you don't end up doing it then you have personal liability however you are not the one responsible the item that you said is going to be brought has to be brought and if something happens to you you do not have a liability so it's interesting the mission does not say that if you say it could be a it can't be because a a kosher person will never make an oath let's see the ran the ran says this is a continuation of explaining the concept of explains that this is what it means to say if a person says like the vows of the wicked meaning you add the word harini you don't just Sayid but you say and now only did you say the vows of the wicked I am but there was a passing in front of you then you're like the vows of the wicked upon me thenb then you would have to ring carbon and the ran says even though thear doesn't say this it's they' only be carbon if there is a animal walking before you it's logical if there's an animal before you likewise if you say like the vows of the wicked from it that I will not eat it again the gamar explains that when the mishna says it's also with an added phrase namely of or Al or so if you say if there was a loaf in front of you you are bound by an oath not to eat it and in all of these make a lot of oh boy can I tell you of a lot of that I've seen over the years that never came to fruition people have come to me they shook my hand they given me their word and I know watch out it would be a miracle if this ever happens and sure enough it never happened why because R liked to make NAD but nothing comes of it do not make because it is not fit to do this they are Wicked for that matter but if you say or or even if if you say and you say or and there was a passing in front of you or an animal or a because the expression is meaningless people don't make do not make you are not permitted to do this the same thing would be if you say like the of on me let's say you say like I'm going to make an like a that's also meaningless CU don't make they make because if they do they would not be a russer for that thing mean even though you could technically say make do not make now even though it could be a Russia will make an adava but regarding that behavior that is not a wicked Behavior so that would be ineffective uh if you say but if you say like the of a then it could be a it could be a it could be a car whether it's a therefore if you say there's another walking before you you're a if you say and there was an animal in front of you it's like you said but there is no concept of sh of a koser person you would not be even if there's a loaf placed in front of you and you say from it I'm not going to eat because K never make a vow the ran goes on to ask that the difference between anava and another is aava is har and a is har alai and you have personal liability and you don't have personal liability because of that animal something happens to it you are not responsible so thean asks that distinction of the difference between all and zoo is only plausible by caran but it's not plausible by nazus what would be aava of nazus and what would be a n of nazus the two categories are not applicable therefore the ran redefines the difference between Anda a is something done unenthused I take upon myself to do it when you know it's like these guys say I pledge I pledge you pledge you also pledge allegiance to the flag in third grade you know when are we going to see something from it who knows you know so a NE is unenthused Nas I'm giving this that's more of an enthused so R donate unenthused donate Inus Now by if you do it with the right that is a if you do it with improper that is um okay so the G says thear asks why is the phrase effective maybe this is what the guy meant if a guy just says the words maybe he means I will not make a like the wicked I will not make a where he says he adds a word to the phrase either he adds the word har I will be and in that case we interpret it as a naer or Al and in that case he we interpreted as a carbon Oru from it and then we interpret it as a if he says we interpret as he says carbon says he meant behold I will be in a state of fasting if there's a another passing in front of you likewise the r said by carbon if you say it has to be there was an animal in front of you from that means you take an oath you're not going to eat it says the means you're taking that you will eat it from it that I won't eat so if you said from it you won't eat of course it's effective if you say of course it's effective says Maybe not maybe for you need to articulate an oath and he never did so he did not emit an oath from his mouth so the is that in fact it is effective that this is true that it is effective now our Mish differentiates between and the wicked people do only righteous people do but as we're going to see it doesn't seem like any tan differentiate between and says gar man like you didn't say anything like which the between we should say it's not we learned in we learned in the says in like this that which you vow pay so there's a shil like this it says if you make another you should pay it but better you don't make ather then make a Nether and don't pay is it better not to make a nether than making ather and paying meaning there three cases making another and paying making another not making another at all and making another not paying we know the worst is making another and not paying what what's the best making another another and paying or not making another at all holds the best thing is not to make another at all the best thing is to make and to pay making a Nether and not paying is only worse than making making a NE not making a nether at all is only better than making a Nether and not paying but the best is making a Nether and paying but everyone agrees that there's no difference between NE and adava we don't see any difference here between R and RAB Huda between andava let's see the ran the ran just back in the last the second wide line maybe you mean when you say maybe means you will eat it I'm sorry I'm going back to last gar but the G's question the r explains that since there's a possibility that when you said he you didn't mean you're not going to eat but rather you meant you're going to eat so then it's and who is the Bal over here happens to hold you so wants to know what who is the that differentiates between who is the that says people make and don't make it's the best thing is not to make another at all that's better than it's even better than Mak someone who makes another pays pay earlier on it says that which you make another pay and afterwards it says better not to make another it's even better than it's better not to make a NE than someone who makes a NE and pays is it's even better not to make a NE at all than to make a NE and pay again we passing like RAB Huda um actually maybe not seems like we passing like a mayor over here which is interesting as you know we usually don't passing like R but it sounds like over here we pass like R not to make at all the is giving a reason then making another not paying you might forget better not to make all now it's that there's no differentiation because if there was a difference if there was a difference between and it should say and even better than not not making a NE at all is making anava the best thing is making pain and how does read the if you make pay that is the best but it's better not to make than to make not to pay round says that's P obviously I need a meaning according to I understand why the Torah says it's better not to make another at all it's better not to make a NE at all than to make a NE and pay it but according to abuda no it's better to make a Nether and pay it it's only better not to make a nether at all than to make a Nether and not to pay it no kidding it's better not to make the nether at all than to make the nether and not pay it so you might think like this that at least the guy who made the Nether and didn't pay okay we're going to nail him for not paying it but he did something good by making the ne because that would Inspire him to pay and to give it the is there is no redeeming value of making a nether it only the giving has value not the making the ne okay so that is but it only took us 20 minutes so the vote is unanimous we're going to do B because the rest of the week uh I don't think um I'm not going be able to do it until Thursday and you know who could wait who knows maybe you know is that okay recording stopped yeah I hear you you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by Torah anytime.com