Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 83a

Okay, good evening friends. We're continuing in dasha. We're closing in on the end of I think we finished up during the nine days actually this year. So that's a convenient end time. The garbage brought the opinion of and according to some versions in the name of Rabnan that if a woman makes another sheer something that afflicts her and something that doesn't afflict her afflict her there are those who are of the opinion that since the husband anols the one that afflicts her so the one that even the one that does afflict her is an but no only an is the one that is afflictive of her not the one that's not afflictive of her. So now we're going to challenge a woman who is first of all this is for many reasons. It's this week's para this week's para is the para of nazerus. A woman took upon herself nazerus. That means no wine, no grapes, no contamination. And despite her nether, she was drinking wine and she was contaminating to the dead. So the garra says she gets 40 malas. Look, she absorbs the 40 malas because she's violating the nether. The Duran says it says this even though it's obvious this is simple but it brings it in. It gets drawn in uh from the other that we're going to mention. If let's say her husband enulled her and she didn't realize and she drank wine and she contaminated to the dead she doesn't get malus because even though as far as she cons was concerned she was doing an a but in reality her nether was an now maybe she'll need kapora but that's not the subject of this Mishna she's not she doesn't get malus Fine. Um, V. Now, so if the husband enulled it, she doesn't get malus. Now, wait a second. In all cases, the husband doesn't get malus. In in all cases, I'm sorry, she doesn't get malcus. But what if she ate grapes? Now, maybe that's not um that's not afflictive. If she prohibited wine and grapes, that's not afflictive that she can't eat grapes. Or let's see the says if you're going to say like that the husband can only of the one that cause her pain but not the one that doesn't cause her affliction. Well that's the case. So he's only enoling from wine that she is afflicted by. But from the seed of the grape or the skin of the grape he's not anulling she doesn't get s from not eating grapes. People could go could go months without eating grapes. If you ask me what was last time grapes I don't know you know it's not something that affects your quality of life. Wine on the other hand there are many people it affects their quality of life on a daytoday or hourly basis. So he is only enoling the wine but he's not enoling the grapes. She doesn't get sar from that. So if she ate the grapes, she should get malus. Why does it say as a flatout statement that the is if the husband enulled it, she doesn't get malus? Well, that sounds like she wouldn't get malus for partaking of any kind of grape product. But he's really only enoling the the wine, not the grapes. So, let's see the second line. This word dma, this word dma is imprecise because even if he would have explicitly anulled the the grape seed and skin says he's not anulling the one that doesn't afflict her. It would not help me because of the reason that I wrote Dan is of the opinion that even if he were to explicitly enull the one that she's not afflicted by, it would not work cuz he has no authority over that. He only has authority to enulam that afflict her. So she should really get mala. So you say, well maybe she does, but we're not talking about that. We're talking about if she drinks wine. So the says if this is the should have taught me that that even if the husband explicitly annoys the nether from the grape skin and the great seed she'll get even the grape seed and the skin says go no there's a there's a specific answer why even if you hold like that she's not going to get mockus if she has a grape seed and the grape skin there's no halfway there's no there's no halfway says since there's no such thing as nazeros. That's kal on grape skin and grape seed. There's no such thing of being a nazer uh without being a nazer than the seed and the skin. When the merciful one says you could the whole thing the nether The nether the nazirus is a one package deal really normally when a husband enols he enols let's say she asks her two loaves one she's afflicted by one she's not it's two separate nadarim so the husband could come along and enol part of it but nazerus is a one package deal there's nazerus means no wine no grape seed no skin and no contamination so when the husband enols it is enoling that entity you can't have there is no partial So the Gar now challenges the wording of Rabi because implies there's no for halfway but potentially if there were potentially though there could be carbon for a half a Nazerus. There's no halfway Nazeros but there could be carbon of half a Nazerus. Let's see the run. I'm sorry. Let's see the Russian means there's no halfway. But does that mean there's a carbon for half of a nazeros? And says back to that no there's no halfway zeros and there's no bringing half carbon. Let's see what this means. Let's see the R. The ran says we don't find okay we did that one there is a carbon for half with a wonder from the fact that it says there's no half and we don't say it's what we do say is there's no for halfway. We don't say that. There are no halves of that's there could be halves of it's just there's no half. We'll explain for itself. There's no halfway. You can't be a ner for wine and not for grape, but you could bring a carbon for half of a period. What does that mean? Let's say she made another three. She counted 15 days and on day 15 the the husband enulled it. Now the husband enols it from here on. He doesn't retroactively uproot it. which means she kept 15 days of Nazir and her husband it comes out she's enoling the 15 coming days the 15 days that are ahead are not fulfilled the 15 days that she counted they're not uprooted We we say in the husband cuts it in half wants to know how do you bring a carbon for 15 days for partial days I'll mix how could you bring a carbon for half of the days. So says no, there's no there's no carbon just like there's no halfway. You can't be for grapes and not grape seed or wine and not grapes. You can know part of it. You can't know the wine part in the seed and the skin. So too there are no carbon for half. In other words, if she observed 15 days and then the husband it anytime the husband knows it within the count of the and the count of those days became the days ahead. She would not bring a carbon for those partial days that she counted. The Tory never said to bring a carbon for half a for a full 30-day period. Fine. So Rab implied there's no halfway. There is carbon for half in Azerus. And Rab said and Abay said, "No, there's no halfway Nazerus and there's no Nazerus for uh there's no carbon for halfway Nazerus. But now we're going to challenge Abay. We're going to show that perhaps there is there are carbon for a half and a period. We ask a question from aisha, a woman who took upon herself nazir and she separated her animal to bring as a carbon. So a woman became another and basically she became tame and she therefore separated an animal to bring as a carbon for her to then the husband was. Now if another becomes tame, he has to start counting again and before he counts again he has to go through a period of and he has to bring three carbon two and av and avam. So and avas for an asham. So what does she do? She brings a bird for a she doesn't bring a bird for an and she doesn't bring a for a a Okay. But she brings one of the three carbon. Oh, wait a second. One of the three carbon. She became tame. She observed half an Azeros. Why exactly is she bringing one of the carbon she was all of them. If you're going to say that you don't bring a card for partial, why would she bring it says the she became before her separated the animals since it says she brings a bird for obviously she became Maybe doesn't bring unless she becomes when it says she was mafish her. What do you mean her behem? I thought we're dealing with Yes. No. And a bird is not a behem. So it's telling me even though she separated her animal before enoling when the bal she does not even bring the when the husband enols it now but she does bring the why in the world does she bring a she only observe the partial nazeros. Doesn't that show carbon themed carbon? If you're going to say there's no carbon for a partial that she already counted since she didn't count a full minion even what she counted is not since she didn't count a minion shale. So then what she counted is not it's not called she observed why does she bring a bird for the what do you mean to yes she was she became as a nazer but not really as a nazer because she never observed legitimate nazerus because it was cut short once it's cut short that's not a nazerus I thought a partial nazerus is not reckoned a nazeros. So the fact that she brings a carbon means carboni not like soar says no no no this is no this is different. Why is this different? I'm sorry. The gumar says I have a question to you. What do you suggest? You say, "Ah, this proves there are for." So, can you tell me why you only bring the carbonas and not the and not the asham? So, what are you going to say? H I'm wrong. Sabay says fine, I'm wrong. Then what? You're right. You're right. There are carbon for so bring all the carbon. Nobody ever said for the zeros you bring carbon. Nobody ever said for paros you bring some of the carbon. The question is, do you bring carbon for partial nazeros? So let's say so you're saying I'm wrong. There no carbon for well let me ask you if you're right. If there are carbon for why don't you bring them? Why do you only bring the you should bring three animals? Look in the Had she not become tame, she would have had to bring three animals. H. So the ram first says had she not become she would have to bring now that she became she should bring the has a different possibility. She should actually bring three animals since the husband doesn't undo it and uproot it from the beginning guys. He he just cuts it in half from the time of comes out that the half counting of that she counted remains in its place. If you're going to think there is there are carbon for partial nazeros, she should then bring carbonos of nazeros of purification after she becomes tahar. I'm not clear on the round second shot. I'm going to learn like the round first shot that the question is if there are carbon for partial nazeros then she should have to bring all the carbon for becoming t namely and says the gam you're right was right there no carbon for a partial I if there no carbon why do you ing is different than all carbon because we find a special leniency by a carbon namely usually if you're whether you could bring a carbon it depends on which carbon you bring by the way this comes in you know if you're not sure if you uh are you could say the par of and say if I'm great and if not I bring it as an adva But if you're not sure if you're you can't say if I'm this should be and if it's not it's just a general donation to the to the sisterhood you know. No no no no no no there you can't bring a as a general donation. You can only bring a katas if you're a so you can't say if I'm this should be a katas. You can't go to the base of mikdash and say hm I don't remember if I turned on a light on chabas by accident. If I did, here's the carbon. And if I didn't, it's just a general donation. No, no, no. We don't want we can't accept a as a general donation. But by there's a special you could bring a bird mis. So since by birds you're allowed to bring a bird mis so too if it's a half anos you could bring the bird. Since in the realm of bird offerings, they're special dispensations, namely in the area of doubt. So we also allow you to bring the bird in a case where it's a partial says the which you bring. You could bring for a suffic since it's so lenient without it being it could work for so we don't bring for that's the that's the the has special leniencies we can bring it and we can Bring it on. So now we're back to we want to uh we have a question. We'll just read the words, but we'll get the question tomorrow night. Same time, same channel. A woman who made another to be she became and then the husband. If you're going to say the husband could enull the nadaram that afflict her and not the ones that don't afflict her, we'll see exactly what the question is tomorrow. Okay, so that is >> Hi everyone. Good night everyone.