Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 79b

Progress. Okay, good evening friends. We're continuing in Dafa Shavua. We're learning Maseches Nedarim. The 11th perek of Nedarim. Perek Ve'eilo. Which is interesting. We just uh spoke about a situation where the husband says, "I know there are Nedarim, but I didn't know that you could be mayfer Nedarim." We're talking in this perek about what kind of Nedarim a husband or a father could be mayfer. It's interesting. Um >> [snorts] >> It's very interesting that we're going to see in the Ran that the Ran holds that this Mishnah not only applies to the husband, not only applies to the husband, yeah, but applies to the father as well. However, we're going to see the opinion of the Rambam is that it does not apply to the father. The father, according to the Rambam, is allowed to be mayfer all the Nedarim of a of a daughter. Even though the Ran will see quotes the Sifrei that there we compare the father to the husband, the Rambam is not impressed with the Sifrei. He says that nowhere in the Bavli is that opinion mentioned, and therefore we have to assume the Bavli disagrees. Which is an amazing thing. So, let's begin. Ve'eilo Nedarim Shehu Mefer. These are the Nedarim that a husband could be mayfer. Devarim Sheyeish Bahem Inuy Nefesh. Matters that have affliction of the soul. Matters that if she refrains from them, it will afflict her. Says the Ran, Ve'eilo Nedarim Shehu Mefer The Ran throws in, and also the father. Sheyeish Bahem Inuy Nefesh Meforesh BeGemorah Do Aden. Now, the Mishnah's only going to say that the father that the husband could be mayfer Nedarim of Inuy Nefesh, meaning things that she's going to be afflicted if she doesn't partake of. The Gemorah on Amud Beis will say, "It's not only Inuy Nefesh, also Devarim SheBeino LeBeinah." Personal matters. Matters relevant to the intimacy between husband and wife. Elo DeNafka Hani, the reason why it only spoke about Inuy Nefesh, DeFisha Hu Mayfer Oisan LeGamrei. Bein LeAtzmi, Bein LeAcherim. The Mishnah only talks about Inuy Nefesh cuz Inuy Nefesh, he could be mayfer whether for himself or for others. Masha Ein Kein BeDevarim SheBeino LeBeinah, SheEin Mayfer LeAcherim Elo LeAtzmi. We're going to see that Devarim SheBeino SheBeino LeBeinah he could only be mayfer for himself, not for others. We'll see what that means. But Devarim of Inuy Nefesh, he could be mayfer whether for himself or for others. What is this So, what are examples? Says the Mishnah, Im Erchat, VeIm Lo Erchat. If I bathe or if I don't bathe. Or Im Eskasheis, VeIm Lo Eskasheis. If I uh beautify myself, if I don't beautify myself. Amar Rabbi Yosi, Rabbi Yosi says, "No. Ein Eilu Nidrei Inuy Nefesh." These are not Nedarim of affliction. Okay, we'll have to see what's Rabbi Yosi's problem. Ve'eilu [snorts] Hein Nidrei Inuy Nefesh. The following are Nidrei Inuy Nefesh. Amrah, let's say she says, "Koinam Peiros Olam Alai." She says, "I assur all the fruits of the world upon me." Harei Zeh Yachol LeHafer. Then he could be um annul the Neder. But if he says, "Peiros Medinah Alai." If he says, "The fruits of this country on me." So then Yavih Lo Medinah Acheres, let him bring her from another country. Peiros Chanvani Zeh Alai. If she says, "I assur the fruits of this storekeeper." Einuy Yachol LeHafer. He can't annul it cuz he could get her fruit from another store. DeMliyo Sepernasasei Elo Me'eino, but if this was the only place that he typically got produce, cuz this is the only storekeeper who's going to give him who's going to let him buy without uh charging him on the spot, who's going to sell to him on credit, Harei Zeh Yoter. Then he's allowed to be mayfer the Neder cuz practically speaking, he's not getting her food from elsewhere. Divrei Rabbi Yosi. This is the opinion of Rabbi Yosi. Now, the obvious question is we already said Amar Rabbi Yosi in the beginning of the whole Megillah, why does it need to end off Divrei Rabbi Yosi? Okay. Let's see the Ran on the second line. Im Erchat, VeIm Lo Erchat. BeGemorah Meforesh Heichi Kamrah. Im Eskasheis, VeIm Lo Eskasheis. Kishus HaPanim. Adorning the face could go on Kichol U'Pikus. Different makeups and eye makeup. DeBehohu DeSiyura Rabbanan DeMayfer. It's only regarding this the Rabbanan say you could annul, Mishum Nidrei Inuy Nefesh. Aval Kishus Shel Mata, but if it's referring to adorning her private area, Afilu Rabbanan Maidei Rabbi Yosi DeEin Eilu Nidrei Inuy Nefesh. Even the Rabbanan would say this is not an affliction, Elo Devarim SheBeino LeBeinah. That's personal. VeAl Achinam Mu'ach BeGemorah. That by Kishus HaPanim that's not what we're talking about over here. So, basically, according to this Mishnah, the only Nedarim that a husband is able to be mayfer for his wife, and also the father, according to the Ran, is only only Inuy Nefesh. Okay, so let's see the Gemorah. Says the Gemorah, Nidrei Inuy Nefesh Hu DeMayfer She'ein Bahem Inuy Nefesh, Einuy Mayfer. Is it true that only Nedarim that are afflictive could he annul? And if it's not afflictive, he can't annul? VeHaTanya Bein Ish LeIshto, Bein Av LeVito, Melamed SheBa'al Mayfer Nedarim SheBeino LeBeinah. From here we learn that the husband could annul Nedarim regarding personal matters. >> [snorts] >> Meaning not only Nidrei Inuy Nefesh, but even personal matters. Meaning even though the lashon of the pasuk LeAnois Nefesh Ishah Yekimenu, Ishah Yefirenu. It says if it's a Neder to afflict her, then the husband could annul it. Still, nevertheless, nevertheless, we're going to learn out from the pasuk Bein Ish LeIshto, Bein Av LeVito that even Nidrei Devarim SheBeino LeBeinah, he could also annul. So, Gemorah answers, Amrei, Halen BeHalen Mayfer. The truth is, the husband could annul both. Miyu Inuy Nefesh Mayfer LeOlam. If it's something that afflicts her, she he could annul it forever. Aval Ein Bahem Inuy Nefesh. But if it's not afflicting her, then KeDi Isah Techos Sei Haveya Hafarah? BeCheimei Goresh Lo Chail Alai Nidrah. Like this. If it's not afflictive, but it's it's personal, then KeDi Isah Techos Sei Haveya Hafarah? Then if when she is under his auspices, then it's annulled. Meaning it's only annulled so long as they're married. But if he were to divorce her, and she assurd a personal um a Neder affecting their intimacy, then the Neder is chal. The Nedarim that afflict her, so then it's chal, it's it's annulled forever. An uh Nedarim that are restrictive of their intimacy will only be annulled for as long as they're married. Once their marriage is terminated, it's not that Neder is not um annulled for her. She would be bound by the Neder. So, afflictive Nedarim are permanently annulled, and even if he terminates the marriage, they're still annulled. But personal Nedarim are annulled only so long as they're married. So, Gemorah says, Okay. BeDevarim SheBeino LeBeinah, She'ein Bahem Inuy Nefesh. This is only personal matters that are not afflictive. But if they're afflictive higher than nature. Then that there is not even how meaning even after the marriage is terminated. Sigma says the same in the office came a garage highly Allah. And if it's personal matters meaning if it's not when he divorces her it's how but it's not I am here. I am here you says you are fair. He should have known the room Shama you got Shana because maybe he's going to divorce her. What to have a surreal way? And she's going to be a certain to him. Why will be she why will she be Why will she be a certain to him? Because we're afraid he might divorce her. And then once he divorces her the We're afraid he might divorce her. Let's say she makes another about personal matters. So we're afraid he might divorce her. And then he'll take her back. And when he takes her back it's she's going to be a certain to him. Because she's a certain to him in the another. Which means so therefore we say a no another now. Which implies that if he knows it now it will continue to be a no for after he divorces her and takes her back. So we see that when it comes to the way we know how to if he knows it now it will it's not how after it's not how [snorts] when they're divorced meaning we tell a person a no it now. That seems to that seems to be that if you do a no it now if it's the way we know how to know how to it will not take effect when when there's a divorce. Let's see the run. To review another you know in office who do I have in a little drum show me the way now have you on. The tomorrow is going to explain that according to the way you see it's not another you know in office but it's the way we know how to know how to know how to know how to We'll we'll see that on that page. The way you know how to know how to know how to must go on the most of the way you see. You have you love me Medina the key with the material personal Medina since she's able to eat the pears of another Medina. And say you know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to the way I say how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to And if his personal sir was only from that store Shakira is a monkey pie. This money gives credit William Shakira monkey pie and there's no one else to give credit for him. She sometimes he won't have money even if he says he miss Anna so she's going to be fasting. Took off your fur therefore it's not office and he could be made for a mistake in a minute but no drama appears Medina Shakira your fur. But it's a mistake this is very important. It's a mistake but the way you see >> [snorts] >> is talking about when he made another from the Medina that he lives in. That's when he could be made for. But he got to tell me you have you love me Medina but she will not be in Paris Medina sir. What does this mean? If you make another from a particular store keeper you say how many is a lie you can't be made for. But unless this is the only store keeper you could go to. Now if this is the only store keeper you could go to you could be made for it. So then what's the reason why if you say Paris Medina Zoo a lie you can't be made for it. Why can't you be made for it? I think I'm not going to get any um any Paris from this Medina. Okay. Why are why am I allowed to be Why am I not allowed to be made for it? It must be the reason why I'm not allowed to be made for it is cuz the case is talking The case in other words the run is saying the case in the Mishnah that if you're made if you're uh make another from the Paris of the Medina the husband can't be made for it. It's talking about a different Medina not the one you live in. Cuz if it's the one that you live in that's got to be worse than if you make another from the one store that the gives credit. I mean so maybe you'll find another store to get fruits. It must be it's talking about where you make another from the the Paris of a different country a different country so you'll get from some other country. >> [clears throat] >> Do you have a review I see the way you know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to The way you going to explain why do I need that statement the way you see. Given the way you must say to I am here you see in the beginning of the same that says the way you said. Okay. The way you continue I am here how long the way you have you have her must be that when you're made for another you're made for another. For >> [clears throat] >> both of you know in office you're made for for good and the way you know how to know how to know how to you're made for for good. Hello Medina you know in office made for being lost in the way you know how to know how to the drum that are afflictive he knows them for himself and for other people. What does it mean for other people? Not only when he divorces her but even if she marries someone else. Even if this woman goes and divorces gets divorced from the first husband and marries a second husband it's still a no for that time. I am here you know in office. But >> [snorts] >> if it's not afflictive then the way you made for. So long as it's for himself for himself means he could always come and marry her again even if he divorces her it's for sure a no for then. But if someone else marries her in other words if it's another regarding intimacy so even if he divorces her it's still a no because he could always take her back. Until someone else marries her. Once someone else marries her he can't take her back and he can't take her back anymore then it's not a no for that. The way you got to tell me. This is what it means to say. What does that mean? A little another made for being lost in the way you know how to know how to know how to know how to know how to know how that says the husband could be made for these another. It means these and as opposed to other another these another he could a no both for himself and for others another you know in office. But talk of the way you know how to know how to know how to know how He could also be made for those and he could even be made for it for after the marriage is terminated. He just can't be made for it for a time that she marries someone else. Says the run. Tomorrow came a garage highly. >> [clears throat] >> The tomorrow initially said that when he divorces her then the another you know how to know how to know how to know how to must die. Who after being Shakira Medina and then she would be a certain in it even though he marries her again. I would tell me you have you have her. Must listen here by Parker. It's a Mishnah in this park. What does the Mishnah say? The Katani Reisha, the Reisha teaches Kanam Shani Oisa Al Piha. If she makes a Neder on her Meis Ya'adim, Eino Tzorich L'Hafer. You don't have to annul it. The Hamisha D'Lei, she's Meshubas Heim. V'Al Moreh Rabbanan She Odeh D'Ba'al and the Rabbanan strengthen the Shibud D'Ba'al Shelo Ya'afkianu Kanam that it's not uprooted by the Neder. Rebbi Meir No'i says, you do have to annul it. Shema Ya'afer then the Neder is going to be Chal when he divorces her on her Meis Ya'adim. Yochal HaNeder K'She Y'Garshina. So, you'll say, who cares if it's Chal when he divorces her? Then he'll never be able to take her back. U'T'hei Asura L'Asur Lo and then it'll be assur for him to take her back. Shema Y'Haneni Meina. He might get Hana'ah from her. Mishum Hachi Ya'afer. Therefore, you need to annul it. Alma Therefore, Alma we see K'Meis L'Meis Ikara when he annuls it from the beginning and we say therefore annul it. That means even after divorce, even after divorce the Neder is not Chal. V'Af Al Gav D'Bei Meis Ya'adim D'Varim SheBeino L'Beina Who? Even though asuring handywork is considered in personal matters between them. That means the Neder would be annulled even for later on when they're divorced. Not like we're saying now, we're saying D'Varim SheBeino L'Beina would the Neder would come back. [clears throat] Bein L'Atzmo, we're saying the difference is that Nidrei Inei Nefesh is Bein L'Atzmo M'Hanya'ah Far D'Lei, Bein She Rui L'Atzmo She Meifer his annulling works whether he could marry her. Bein L'Acheirim even if he divorced her and she married someone else and he can never take her back. And the Mishnah means only in Nidrei Inei Nefesh you could always be Meifer Ela D'Var um Aval Ein Bahem Inei Nefesh. But, if they're not Inei Nefesh but rather Ela D'Varim SheBeino L'Beina L'Atzmo Meifer L'Acheirim Eino Meifer. D'Keivan She Nos'is L'Achar, once she married someone else Lo Lo Lo Hafer D'Lei, his Hafer is Batel V'Chal HaNeder. That once she married someone else D'Varim SheBeino L'Beina are off. B'Ochi Katani, V'Eilu HaNedarim She Meifer Bein L'Atzmo, Bein L'Acheirim these are the Nedarim that he could annul whether for himself or for others. D'Keivan D'Tani Meifer Stama what the Mishnah means, these he could annul forever. Hafera L'Olam Shma Shma. Fine. The Gemara continues. The Mishnah started by talking about which Nedarim are considered Inei Nefesh. Im Erchatz if I bathe Heichi Kama? What what exactly is she saying here? The Ran says Heichi Kama D'Lashon Kanam Lo Shayeich Im. What do you mean she asured if I bathe. She asures if I bathe. What is she asuring? What what she talking about? How do you make a Neder if? I assur if. What do you assur? Tell me what you assur. So, the Gemara says Eilima D'Amra Kanam Peiros Olam Alai Im Erchatz. If you're going to say where she said I assur the fruits of the world upon me if I bathe Lama Lo Hafera? Why does she need to annul it? Why does she need to annul it? Lo Yitarchatz. What Again, she says I assur all the fruits in the world on me if I bathe. So, why exactly are we annulling the the Neder? I have a great idea. You don't want to be assur in the fruits, so don't bathe. Lo Yitarchatz. Don't take a bath. V'Lo Yitzrun Peiros Olam Alai. The fruits won't be assur to her. Who? What exactly is the Neder? She's saying I assur the fruits of the world on me if I bathe. That means the bathing is not the Inei Nefesh, it's the fruits. So, the bathing's not the Inei Nefesh. So, then don't bathe. What's the second question? V'Oid B'Ha Leima Rebbi Yosi Ein Eilu Nidrei Inei Nefesh. Regarding these Nedarim, Rebbi Yosi said these are not afflicting. D'Ima Rachtza Asur Peiros Olam Alah. Why is this not afflicting? Because she might bathe and then the fruits of the world become assur to her. Rebbi Yosi said, no, these are not Nidrei Inei Nefesh. Why not? It it is. She might bathe and now it's going to be the fruits are going to be assur. Rebbi Yosi says these are not Nidrei Inei Nefesh. So, you'll say, well, maybe that's exactly the point. Rebbi Yosi says that maybe she shouldn't bathe and she won't have the fruits assur. Let's see exactly what's the Kasha here. Eilima D'Amra Erchat Eilima D'Amra Kanam Peiros Olam Alai Im Erchatz Lama Lo Hafera? Why do we need to annul it? Lo Yitarchatz. Don't bathe. V'Lo Yitzrun Peiros Olam Alah. D'Mei D'Lo Tani K'Gavan She Nadra B'Rechitzah Atzma. The fact that she's not asuring bathing so that means we're saying bathing is not afflictive. Well, if it's not afflictive saying I assur the fruits of the world on me if I bathe so, don't bathe. And not bathing is not afflictive. Alma B'Rechitzah Lo K'Ino V'Keivan D'Lo K'Ino Lama Lo Hafera? See the bottom Ran. V'Oid B'Ha Leima Rebbi Yosi Ein Eilu Nidrei Inei Nefesh. Why would Rebbi Yosi say it's not Inei Nefesh? But, she might bathe and now the fruits of the world will become assur to her. So, it's a little bit schwer. What do you mean why is Rebbi Yosi saying that it's not Inei Nefesh? We just expressed in the first question because she could not bathe. So, maybe that's why Rebbi Yosi said it's not Inei Nefesh. No, that can't be Rebbi Yosi's Svara that just have her not bathe. Why can't that be Rebbi Yosi's Svara? It's because of how he said it. Let's look carefully. Lo D'Ino D'Rebbi Yosi Kasha Lei. We're not asking on the Din, why did Rebbi Yosi say it's not Inei Nefesh? Not Inei Nefesh cuz she could not bathe. D'Heichi Niksha Rebbi Yosi Am Ai Lo Ya'afer? D'Ima Rachtza D'Lo Ifcha She Lo Lo Tana Kama. We Didn't we just ask the opposite? Lo Yitarchatz. V'Lo Yitzrun Peiros Olam Alah. So, we're not asking on the Din, Rebbi Yosi, why do you say it's not Inei Nefesh? How could we ask on Rebbi Yosi How We're asking on Rebbi Yosi why do you say it's not Inei Nefesh? But, she might bathe and assur the fruits of the world? But, we just expressed in the first question that bathing is not Inei Nefesh. Because don't bathe. But, the question is like this. The Kasha is on the the phraseology of Rebbi Yosi. D'Kama Rebbi Yosi said Ein Eilu Nidrei Inei Nefesh. We're not asking why Rebbi Yosi says it's not Inei Nefesh. We know. Bathing is not Inei Nefesh, so don't bathe. We're asking he said Ein Eilu Nidrei Inei Nefesh. D'Mashma D'Lo Paliga Mai D' Tana Kama. D'Ima Rachtza. Then he doesn't argue on what the Tana Kama Kama was worried that he might bathe. No, Taka she might bathe. But, what he's saying is D'Kama D'Af Ilu Hachi Ein Eilu Ein Eilu D'Varim Inei Nefesh. That even though we agree to the Tana Kama that she might bathe but it's still not afflictive. Well, why not? If you're Taka worried she might bathe, then not eating fruits is afflictive. B'Ha Vadei Kasha D'Keivan D'Kameida D'Ima Rachtza Meaning the first Kasha of the Gemara is why do why would the Tana Kama say it's Nidrei Inei Nefesh? You're worried she might bathe? Well, tell her not to. And then she won't assur the fruits of the world. Now, Rebbi Yosi is also cautious that she might bathe, but he's saying becoming also in the fruits is not in a nefesh. Dilma Raxsa Ika Nidre Vaha Vaha Vade Kasha the Kima de Kamada Dilma Raxsa Since you're my dad that she might bathe, I Ika Nidre How is by in a nefesh? Then the nether is in a nefesh. Vamisa de le my de le Dilma Raxsa And if you're going to say, well, Rabi Yosi is not concerned she might bathe, then he should have said Enya la Hafer He should have said, you can't be made fair out Nidre in a nefesh. He should have said you If Rabi Yosi was not worried that she might bathe, and he doesn't agree to the Tana Kama, and we're not worried she might bathe, then he should have just said, you can't annul it because of in a nefesh. But he didn't say that. He said, it's not in a nefesh. Well, why not? If you're taka worried she might bathe, then she's going to become also to all the fruits in the world. So then why would this not be in a nefesh? So we'll see Be'ezrat Hashem next week the answer to these questions. Okay, have a good night everyone. Shkoyach. Recording stopped. Right. Very good. Okay, atzlacha.