Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 5b

okay good morning everyone we're continuing in Lear the gamar is analyzing the statement of Shu Shu is analyzing the Mish the mishna said that if someone says potentially they're two ways of reading the mishna you could have read the mishna these are two different options of one is and another says no only if you say both you need to say both we asked on from various bras that all you need to do is say one now originally originally the reason why you needed to say is because if you don't say that's that it's not even a at all it's nothing at all and was was saying therefore you need to say we asked on him from a number of bras that seem to say that it is significant so rather the had other possib that what meant was if you don't say they would both be user to each other you need to say that it's only I'm to you but you're not user to me and the asked on that because since is why would include both of them so the said no what meant was you need to say otherwise you would even be so says should have said that that if that if you don't say there's even a bigger why didn't say that meaning should have said you need to say because otherwise you'd even be so ultimately the said what meant was you need to say but if you don't say that it's what we call it's a handle but it's not conclusive I we have BR that hold that it would be good enough they holds so gar says shall we say that not says yes in would establish the not we learned in the Mna shall get what is the main body of a g the main body of a g is you are M to every person now even though you didn't say I'm giving you the gut even though you didn't say that I am divorcing you even though maybe I'm giving it to you on behalf of someone else maybe I'm giving it to you to give to someone else but if I say so there really two unclarities over here number one am I divorcing you or maybe I'm divorcing you on behalf of someone else and number two maybe when you if you if the get says har is it that you're divorcing her with the document of divorce or maybe you're divorcing her orally it's not clear that you're divorcing her with this get maybe the get is just ARA that you divorc her orally and then it would be no good but the tanama holds regarding both of these points even though you didn't say I'm divorcing you and even though you didn't say that it's with this star it's good enough says no you have to say and this that is to you from me sa a document of sending you out and a letter of abandoning you so a you're saying V with this and you're saying from me so you're being clear about both of these points you're being clear about the point of that it's from me and you're being clear about the point that it's with thear so the holds because is and says no is you have to say number one with thear and number two you have to say from me you have to say from me so basically we we have the T holds that by get by you need to say with this and you need to say from me so who holds like look in the r the says he definitely holds that how do I know that you don't have to say and this you know why you don't have to say and this because we don't assume he's divorcing her orally without that's that with this G you're divorcing her and he it's also he's divorcing here right there are two things up for grabs over here when you say if you just say maybe you're divorcing her with words and thear is only there as arah and then the whole thing's off because you can't divorce her with words and also you didn't say you're divorcing her maybe you're divorcing her on behalf of someone else so but the holds no you don't have to save a because it's you're divorcing her with this document he's the one divorcing her if you don't I'm sorry even if you don't say maybe you're just foring her with words now Huda why did sh force himself to establish the mission like rabih Huda look why don't we establish the Miss like even though why did say that you need to say in the mishna not only but you need to say because otherwise maybe like the said maybe you're just um I'm not going to talk to you or I'm not going to do business with you or I'm not gonna stand in your why did have to say the is like rud and establish the mishna like rabuda why doesn't he establish the mishna like the r namely so you'll ask if the is like then how do you I understand the mishna why do I need to say why do I need to say both and why would you have to add doesn't the fact that the say doesn't that indicate the answer is no we could have said like thear said earlier that the reason why you need to say is because otherwise you'd even be meaning why didn't the mishna why couldn't we interpret the mishna that way that you need to say not because because otherwise you'd be and the only reason we fell off of that is because we asked then should have said that if you just said even so we know that Shu did not mean that but now we're asking he should have meant that why establish the like EST L the like why do you need to say both then you need to say both because otherwise you'd be the ran continues the fact that we say shall we say holds certainly hold this way he's not only coming to explain the mishna then what's the asking why did sh establish the Miss like rabuda simply he held the missions like rabuda because he holds that way maybe he established the Miss like because he holds the Miss like no like that's not a question it has to be the mishna itself is indicative the like Ruda would not have forsaken the raban and followed R now the gar continues how did sh know the was difficult to why does the mishna say why does say I'm not going to eat from you I'm not going to taste from you the fact that you had to say why why why not just say it's to teach that have your says the if would have taught that then I would have known I would have inferred if would have said I would have maintained I would have seen if why do I need to add even though you already said one long case if you say and you don't say I am to you meaning the question is why is it I don't say I'm saying so I already said from you cuz you know the gar seems to be saying why do I need to say isn't it obvious I'm answering myself in a from you so the fact you have to say that would indicate so the r is asking why what's unclear not didn't you say I already said you so why do I need to say don't say without it's on because you already said the answer is you could have said means that I take a from you I won't talk to you that if I eat today meaning if if it would have said that I'm another to you if I eat that's why is it because maybe what I meant is not I answerer myself in another another from eating from you but I answer myself from a from you if I eat today period I'm or therefore I say the M had to say I offer myself in another I'm not going to eat from you to teach the the reason is because you said but if you say meaning why does the say just say why do you need it to be with to which the asks isn't it already because you say so no the says may just simply mean I asker myself in a nether from talking to you if I period today so the reason why I need to say is to make it we learned hand handles that are not defin are not indicative are not conclusive says they are good handles says they're not so simply it would seem that who holds like he goes like or that says he goes like and he goes like rabuda that shall get that shall get is where you have to say with this and for me says the reason why is because explained to me to now this of is talking about and it says it says teaches me and in that context it talks about explicating it clearly it Compares y to namely just like has to be explicated clearly has to be explicated clearly learns it out from the fact that the that teaches me we learn out it says so you have to be absolutely clear say say we learned in the we quoted earlier you are M to everyone even though you didn't say I'm divorcing you and even though you didn't say I'm divorcing you with this that would seem to go like says and this will be to you from me a document of chasing you out and a document of exempting you and a letter of abandoning you so you have to sayain with this and you have to say so who holds he holds like like says the who holds he could hold like that by get you have to spell everything out I'm sorry abay who holds he could hold like the namely I'm sorry seems to hold like he seems to like that and therefore you could say they have to spell out everything I could hold like R you need to explicate everything with this star and I'm divorcing you why I'd kind like when did say and you need when only by document of divorce because by divorce you need complete cutting off you need to be completely cut off so says really I hold once you say a handle then that's good enough it's just that by get you need to I could hold like RAB Huda that you have to explicate that it's with this star and that um and I'm divorcing you because in order for a get to be good it has to be M and it cannot be left to any interpretation but regularly did we ever hear that you need yeah but everywhere else you you don't need I could even go like that by get you have to I I could go like the ra that by get it's good enough to say the rabbis only said only by says hold it's good enough to say why because obviously I'm divorcing you and I'm not divorcing someone else because a person wouldn't divorce their friend's wife but regularly so there's a that by get you could use regularly but by get you don't need because obviously that's the one you're divorcing you're divorcing her and not someone else's wife now this is going that the reason why it's is because it's not clear who you're divorcing but there's a whole another issue by get namely there was an issue well maybe I'm not divorcing her with this star maybe I'm divorcing her orally and thear is merely AA that I divorced her orally let's see the r um I'm sorry at the bottom run okay now this is very interesting we compare we learn out from we learn out we learn out according to and we learn that from and we extend it to with aish so it's comparing y to because y we learn out from and needs the of someone who sees his friend and he says I'm azer let's say you you see your friend saying I'm azer so you see Ruan and you say oh Ruan nice to see you I'm azer if you're azer now we don't know if at that moment Ruan was a nuer Ruan sees his friend and he says oh Hi friend I don't I'm a nozer like you the thing is we don't know if his friend was a nozer at that moment let's say we didn't know at that moment if he was a na even though we find out later he is the says not why not let's say like this I I'm looking at you on the zoom I say oh you look like I'm azer if you're a nozer and we don't know if you were a nozer at that moment and we find out you were it's not why at the time you make the you need to explicate it it needs to be crystal clear that you're accepting nus and since we didn't know if the person that you wanted to be like was AER at that time you're is therefore what the means is just like you need namely the that we need to know that if you're saying you're AER like so and so we need to know so and so is azer so too when you use handles it has to be clear just like when the when you when you sayos and you say I want to be AER like so and so if you don't know if so and so is AER it won't be because your nus is lacking in so to Y have to be okay well hold over here that is that hey B have a wonderful day recording St sorry about the message this morning