Daf Hashavua - Nedarim 3a

okay welcome everyone it's a beautiful night here in New York City Tuesday evening the night of what else could possibly be going on okay so we're learning gim andar was discussing the order of the mishna because the mishna began by speaking about and it went on to explain a case of Yad Kino are nickname for NAD and Y are when you say a suggestion of aned and the gar had a double question question number one is it said the category of kinu but it explained the category of yadis furthermore it left out the category of Y why didn't the mishna say y So to that the says well it's which this whole is maintaining that if something's missing it cannot be missing in the beginning it can only be missing second so really what it said originally was and then the asks well why would it first explain and then if it listed kin first so the gar says well doesn't it always do that doesn't it always say that's the style of the Tana the Tana always does it that way it always explains so the G asked really I'll show you five cases where first it explained the first outlined category like so the gar says well in those cases it would be too confusing because there's so many cases listed and then thear says well I'll find you a shorter case where there are only two cases listed and it says first so we see that even by shorter cases it first picks the and explains the first category mentioned to which the gamar says um we're really there's no Rhyme or Reason sometimes it explains the one that it opened with first sometimes it explains first the one that it ended with look in the r the reason why in sh the T the sh sometimes explains a and sometimes explains B to teach you that there is no any T that teaches he does it well whatever order you choose is good there is no concept here of choosing the more clever or the more uh or the more thoughtful approach either approach is good that's why some do it one way some do it a different way but there's no real Rhyme or Reason it could be any way you like okay that's what we did last night tonight we're going to see a second answer and if you want you could say as follows y the case of since it's learned out of a it explains it first what does that mean we're going to see that is logical that Kad should work it's a nickname a nickname is a name a nickname is effective it's obvious that that works but the fact that Y is an operable way to make a since it's learned out of ad it explains it first it explains a case of Y says the nearly what this means is this is what the means to say certainly there is no hak how you explain categories of a mishna like we proved sometimes it's and sometimes it's the various show very clearly that there's no Rhyme or Reason but in our mishna there happens to be a Rhyme or Reason and that Rhyme or Reason is that since y are learned out of a so they were explained for us in our M don't say it just picked one of the possible approaches namely it said and then and then explain first it was because it's learned out of a [Music] DHA so now the gamar says really now the gar doesn't say what the DHA is we're going to come to it later in the gar what Thea of Y says says this I'm sorry I skipped fourth line well then open up the mishna with Y if Y is so beloved because it's learned out of then the mishna should start Y and we said no it says and then even though it's missing it says if we explain y first because it's beloved because it's learned out of aasha so then establish that category first says the gamar no first it opens up with which is now what does that mean it means it's obvious that it works and then and then it explains which is learned out of AD meaning when we present the categories we'll present the obvious category first namely followed by y but when we explain cases we'll first explain the less obvious case and then we'll explain the more obvious case we'll explain Y and then we'll explain says the wait a second so now let's let's get let's clarify what we're saying according to this SEC the M begins with because it's clear it's obvious it's it then goes to Y because it's aasha but when explaining it we first go to Y which is and it's and then we explain now we're going to get involved in the famous and that's going to be brought in the gar later on D what exactly are these kinu are they a terminology for a n in a foreign language and then it would be really obvious that they work after all it's just not in Hebrew it's in it's in Japanese okay but there's no DIN and nether has to be Hebrew or is it just a r a uh madeup terminology that the rabbi made up which would then be a very big that they work so says the this is all fine and good according to the Mand that Kim is a language of the Gentiles it's a foreign language so then it's obvious it works so we could follow the pattern that we established that we open up with kinu then we say the bigger novelty of Y and then we ex and then we explain first because it's learned from but according to the opinion that these were terminologies that the rabbis invented to use for NE which is extremely biges and take a look in the r why did the rabbis make this up look in the r it began with to begin with things that are known and are obvious by the way what does it [Music] mean they invented it from their heart the month that they invented from their on their own that's referring to okay actually so you see that this gar we're learning is it's it's the month that they invented on their own explain later on if you say carbon were afraid right carbon is the Biblical word used for for we're afraid if you use the word carbon we're afraid you might mention hashem's name the the name of is usually justos to carbon it says a carb so we're afraid if people would use the word carbon they would say carbon LEM and there's nothing wrong with that because that's that's terminology in the the problem is they then may omit the word carbon and just say and that's a problem they might say's name therefore they innovated these terminologies so according to that this that destroys this whole approach because this approach is saying we start with k which are obvious we start with the category of can which are obvious we then go to Y which are learned from but when it comes to explaining we explain y first which is learned from from adasha but now we're saying is not obvious what about according to the opinion that K is an invented terminology of the if is just a foreign language so indeed they're obvious so we'll say the category first but we'll explain y first but according to the opinion that it's a it's an invented language of the even though even according to the opinion that it's a language the rabbis invented it would still be like I wrote previously the ran held that even according to the opinion that it's a terminology that's invented it's still nevertheless they're not it's not more obvious than it's still a bigger it's not more obvious than that we should begin with it just the opposite would be more obvious because that's learned out of so now according to the opinion that K are a language the rabbis invented we should actually begin with Y we should begin with Y says gamar did we not learn y that [Music] means we're now falling off of the Assumption we held the whole time the whole time we held that if something's Miss Missing in the mishna it can't be missing in the beginning right if somebody left something out it would never leave it out in the beginning and now we're re-evaluating that who says that's so says the gamar says the gamar does it say no it doesn't say explicitly as a second case is it not missing so it it actually Advanced the case of all y of are like meaning it now that it's missing it actually says it first now we're saying that when it's missing it could be missing first so it actually originally said so it's actually saying the bigger the smaller first it's saying the more Elementary case first according to the opinion is a language the rabbis invented and then it explains the the simpler case first for like the says like the says later okay so basically what the gar is doing is like this it's falling off of a lot of things it's saying that according to the opinion that are a foreign language so they're obvious so it starts by saying puts in which is a bigger and the style is to say the elementary case first and it explains Y which is learned out of adasha and then later on it explains kinu but according to the opinion that it's a language the rabbis invented from their own mind so that's a very big it actually says y first which is a more Elementary case it says which is a bigger it explains which is a more Elementary case and then it says okay now take a look in the round now because of the difficulties we're retracting that which we maintained as a premise in the whole Su that the the whole Su maintained that if it's cannot be in the middle I'm sorry in the beginning it has to be in the middle if there's something missing in the beginning it's not missing we say to the opinion that it's a language the rabbi's invented we're going to say now Thea is missing namely the then the would first explain what it opened up with this second answer this is what it's saying the of it picked first explaining which is a small according to one meaning either basically according to this I this EB is saying as follows this T the mishna its order is dka it's definitely explaining either because either according to the opinion is a foreign language well we're going to explain y first because first we say then Y and we explain y because it's learned out of we don't have to explain and according to the other opinion that are a language that the rabis made up we're starting we're explaining because that's what we started with we started with because it's more Elementary because okay so now the gar discusses a new topic we've been we've been saying now that y has learned out of AA whicha what does it mean y has learned out what's the where is does it say so says is a man who separates himself Lind to make neaz as a to stay away from wine for Hashem we learned in this is a double you know we learned from to make nicknames of like and the suggestions of nus nus now if you look in the ran the ran takes out K and he just leaves in why either way we don't learn from a why if it's a foreign language it's obvious if it's a language the rabbis made up it's not learned from if it's a foreign language they don't need a it's the language the rabbi's made up how could you possibly learn it from a so the is from the we learn out y now we're not home now because we still we still we're trying to learn out so we learn out we take out those words but the says the says I only know how do I know by says it Compares toad because it says Lind so we're comparing Toad and we're comparing we're comparing to this is a just like by we make suggestions of handles of like we make handles ofad like so we learn it out from a heish even though we're going to see what why do you need a Hees the same way it says it says Lind so the same type of that we learn out why do we have to extend it toad through it says a double we make that if you do not fulfill your you violate and if you don't if you're carbon and you delay bringing it you're delaying if you break your and if you break your and you break your if you delay your so that's We compare to and we're going to compare to just like a father could anull his daughter's vow a husband could anull his wife's vow forus a father could Theus of his daughter May for and a husband could anal the nazus of his wife so the gar asks what special that we have a source by to abstain from wine by the way let's look back at the r that what does it mean by that if you say this is also to me if you violate your if you made a to bring a carb if you delay it and just like by and it matters between him and her and father could be and the B could be so a husband could the NAD of his wife if it's personal n so um so what's special about ah back in the gar says and therefore the why do I need the Hees why do I need the heish once I have Lind why do I need the heish says Lind if would say the noun before the verb like it says abstaining from na one who abstains from wine laaz to abstain from wine if it would say the noun before the verb which is an unusual terminology then we can make this Le because usually will'll say a verb for the noun lindar it will usually say um look in the ran is not usual usually the verb is before the noun so if it would say like it says byus um the noun before the verb then and it would say Lind then you could make a but it says um then then like you say we would not need the now that it says to vow a vow which is a typical way to speak to that you could say the T spoke in the way in the typical way that people speak that's a typical expression provided that the verb is before the noun but by NA it says that's atypical some accepts nus is he taking on a as well or nus is a type of Nar but it's a separate category now says the this is all fine and good according to the the speaks like people speak so even though it says the V the verb before the noun um I'm sorry so even though it says the verb before the noun since it says the verb before the noun there nothing could be made about the double and therefore we need the he to learn out and we learn it out from cuz only byus it says the noun before the verb according to opinion that the T does not speak kasham if I was writing this I would have said what do we need the Hees for but the way the asks it isind what does he do with the double the ran asks why before did the gamar say why do I need the Hees it says Lind and here the gar was asking it says Lind so why do I need the heish you know before the gar said since it says the double why do I need um the gar the gar before asked since I have a double us why do I need the heish here it's asking since I have a heish what does he do with Lind so the ran says Lind because earlier on the was asking on the the said there was a heish so if there's a heish why do I need the heish if it says Lind but here we're asking on the Tyra we're asking Tyra why did you write it this way if there is a Hees says well the would say that Lind teaches me says and once we we're going to compare so now the question is well then why do I need so we're going to learn that one could be on another so if a guy says um look in the r it's not enough that he should keep 30 days he has to observe he could make another okay we're going to hold it over here we're going to try to get together Thursday night as I mentioned to stay ahead and maybe uh maybe mat shabas because I'm going to be away next week okay have a great night