Conversation - Yom Ha'atzmaut interview with Rabbi Kenneth Brander and Rabbi Yehoshua Fass

Even though I can't fit, let's see if we can get on YouTube right now. Gosh, you don't have any grey hair yet. Oh, yeah. Come close. I don't know. Okay. Wow. Okay, we are live. We are beginning. It's fantastic to be together united with my brothers. We're uh it all began here at BRS and two of the three at least are living the dream. And someday hopefully soon I'm going to join you. But it is a great honor and privilege and pleasure to welcome Rabbi Dr. Kenneth Brander and Rabbi Yehoshua Fass, two uh leaders not only in Israel around the world and two people have had an extraordinary influence and inspiration on my life. So, thank you so much for taking away from your Yom Ha'atzmaut. You're both interrupting. Maybe not yet, maybe after your your barbecues, your celebration, but pausing to be with us and to be back with your BRS family that still is your family still today. So, chag sameach and good morning, good afternoon to both of you. Chag sameach. Chag sameach. Good morning. Love the reunion. Thanks for having us. Maybe not yet, maybe after your your barbecues, your celebration, I done? What do I turn to be with us and to be back with your BRS Okay, sorry. Um so, I want to begin. We have a lot of questions. We have a lot to talk about morning. Um but I want to begin by asking each of you to still to fill us in on what's been happening in your lives. And I don't mean your professional lives. We'll talk about that, which you're each having an extraordinary impact, but I mean your personal lives. Let your BRS family know about what's going on uh in your lives. Children, grandchildren, how well you're doing, what you're up to, what your latest hobbies are. Uh please fill us in. Rabbi Brander, I want to start. Well, baruch Hashem, we have been blessed with some new grandchildren uh over the past month. Uh but to go through the uh the list, starting from the oldest to the youngest, Tovia and his wife Miriam are doing great in West Hartford. They're both playing professional communal roles. Um, Miriam is playing a significant leadership role in the larger community. Tobias the rabbi at the Young Israel West Hartford. A few weeks ago they had a second baby girl. In light of the situation we heard the name Liel on Zoom on Zoom, but we have I have not yet had the opportunity of holding that granddaughter in uh in my hands. Look forward to that soon. Yoni Barack, Yoni and Yudit are uh enjoying themselves. They're actually spending time in Yad Binyamin at my Muktananda's home as they basically are taking over that home during this period of time. They too had a second second boy. Uh a few days before this whole bee dude started, quarantine started around a month ago. So we've been blessed with two new children. We call him Zev. And he obviously I had an opportunity to spend some some limited time with. Yoni is going for his PhD in international affairs at Hebrew University. Yudit is teaching. Nishmat Yudit is working at Nishmat and in addition taking care of two young children is also in law school at Tel Aviv University. Superwoman. Our next is Tehila. Tehila is living in Washington Heights. She is serving as a genetic counselor at Mount Sinai Hospital. Ground zero for all this these challenges and she is well. Thank God. Um And our next and she's doing amazing work. She'll be angry at me for saying this, but when I speak to some of the Russia Yeshiva at YU they tell me that she is their posake or poseket on issues of genetic counseling when they have questions on genetics, they call her. So we're out of all of our children. Yosef is doing amazing. He's finishing law school at Tel Aviv University. And please God, b'sha'ah tovah, they will be getting married, he and his kallah, his bride, Hannah Corlitz. They will They will be getting married in August. B'sha'ah tovah. Um The date was moved? The date Yes, the date was moved. We felt it would be appropriate for Hannah's parents to be able to join at this wonderful simcha. That wouldn't have worked in 2 weeks from now. Um So the date was moved till till August. And also it's hard to dance when there's social distancing. And you know, you don't need the mayor of New York to remind us here that you need to have social distancing. So um It's doing So they're doing great. Hannah works for Momentum. Um and they're doing great. And Yitzchak uh you know, our little Israeli ninth-grader he's doing amazing. He's the hero of our aliyah. He also reminded me of the fact that there's pulpit rabbi rules when it comes to these types of things I'm not allowed to speak too much about them. But Yitzchak and his friends a few days ago decided that this Yom Hazikaron they wanted to remember the soldiers properly. So within a few days they put together amongst themselves the finishing of Shas Mishnayos. Um and it was a pleasure to watch them do a siyum last night albeit through Zoom. So they're all doing great. And I must just if I can conclude with the recognition that I believe that most of their spiritual sustenance uh came from their uh experiences in Boca. There's no place better to raise your children other than in Israel. Uh and of course there's no place better than uh than in Boca. Thank you so much. It's amazing for the for the people in the community who remember your children young. Some of them are bouncing off the walls and to teach them what they're up to. It's really it's really amazing. Not to say anything about me or Rabbi Bronder or Rabbi Fass, you literally look like you have not aged a day. I don't know how you stayed so young. Rabbi Fass, how old are found this over the over Shabbat. I think I ate a little bit, but there's a lot of gray going on. Not really. Not really. You know what I'm saying? The only thing Rabbi Fass has is your glasses. Yeah, well I can't see anything. Rabbi Fass, tell us what's going on in your life, your family, how you're doing. Okay, we're okay. Thank God. We left uh Boca 18 and 1/2 years ago. So I'm a gosh with Elchanan, Nechama, and Ahuva. Elchanan now is married to Jessie. They live in Yerushalayim. I'm finishing uh college and working. He was for Chabad Israel for tourism and logistics. And they're doing great. They just had their second child over Chol HaMoed, which was unbelievable experience. Talk about quarantine and bidud. It was just Elchanan and myself and Batsheva and the girls and uh we had 200-something family members and friends on Zoom. And it was just an extremely we went in cautious and a bit depressed, but we we left so inspired and uplifted. It was it was an absolutely beautiful moment. I never got that many kibbudim at a bris in my life before. From everything from kisei to naming to sandak, it was a very beautiful. And I mean well I mean hi for for what we're going through now. Nachama is finishing college in Emunah. This is Emunah which is a an arts. Those who remember Nachama when she was little, she always dabbled in art. Now she's a professional artist. Ahava is doing sherut leumi in the ER in Shaare Zedek. And her sights are on medical school. Then there's Yaffa. Yaffa is in 11th grade. She wants to be either an architect or police officer. Depends on which day you ask her. Chana is in Kita Tet in ninth grade. Jojo, Yosef Levi is now in He's turning 12 in a week or so in C power zone in Kita Gimmel. So we have a huge range from aunts and uncles who are in third and sixth grade and and older kids and it's tremendous kiff. And an experience and tremendous nachas just seeing the kids the kids who are spiritually nurtured in Boca and the kids spiritually nurtured in Eretz Israel. It's it's remarkable to see how the family's grown and we've been in touch with many of the families in Boca and they've seen the kids the new kids that they've never met in Boca and the kids grow up here and it's a It's really it's really amazing to hear. Who would have dreamed those years ago when we were meeting and hanging out and working hard that the three of us are actually grandfathers now and that's pretty pretty wild. Really amazing. So I want to change the conversation a little bit to talk about the significance of today. It's Yom Ha'atzmaut and the two of you are are not only leading the dream but you're leading the dream in your respective organizations, institutions and and in what you're doing. And I want to tap into that a little bit. We'll get to Nefesh b'Nefesh and Or Torah Stone and and what you're doing through that, but but more personally first, maybe you could share with us on this Yom Ha'atzmaut, when did you both first dream of Aliyah? Was this something early on? Was there a teacher, an influence, a family member? Were you young and and you experienced something? Was it a trip to Israel? Was it a camp? Was it a a teaching? Was it a lesson? Was it Torah? What what first planted that seed inside of you for Aliyah that only got realized later, later in the sense that both of you were married and had families and at different stages of your career later. But what was the first seed of that notion, that idea that someday you would want to live out your destiny in Israel? Rabbi Fass, when when did Aliyah first become a dream? Uh we talked about nurture a few minutes ago. My father was born in Palestine. Uh he remembers being evacuated on from Rehov Mamilla in the early in the early years of the state of Israel. And uh since I was born, Israel and the centrality of Israel um was stressed um constantly to us. Any chance that we had to to visit Israel, um we did. In fifth grade, we actually moved to Israel as a pilot trip, extended pilot attempt for a year. It did not go so well. Uh and uh I it's remarkable how badly it went and yet myself, my siblings, and my parents are back in Israel living here. So, I think it created a sense of yearning and reconnecting. Um I I don't think there was any moment that was a pivotal game changer for me. I think it was just part of my dam, part of the blood, part of the nurturing, part of the direction, part of the concept of the destiny and fate of the Jewish people. Parents were always Zionist, grew up in a Zionist home. And it was it was almost like a no-brainer that this was part of your path in in of at least contending with the concept of moving to Israel. Um ignoring that concept of that viability or that option was just was not the oxygen that we were raised on. Um so if you talk about um it's it was our youth, it was it was the Torah, it was the atmosphere, it was everything, the surroundings around us. So it was always in the background and always in the background of your thought and mind, not if but when. And And what were the circumstances just fast forwarding now to when you began Nefesh B'Nefesh? What what stimulus provoked that within you? You were a thriving your position in Boca, building relationships, having using impact. You were on the fast track to be among great rabbis in America, and yet you you left all that, and you got up I still remember the day standing in the front of the ran sanctuary. I remember the song that you referenced, and I remember when you looked everyone in the eye and you said, "Love you, but I'm out of here. We got bigger plans and bigger things to do." I would I wouldn't talk that way. That's the language not the language that I would choose. The same time I'm paraphrasing. No, thank you for paraphrasing. Um No, when Batsheva and I got married, we always had our Aliyah or bust approach. And at that point I was heading to medical school, and we we we wanted to be in in in in America max 10 years. We didn't want to We wanted to raise our family. Again, talk about that the destiny of the Jewish people. We wanted to raise our family in Israel. Um ironically, the more entrenched we became in the rabbinate, um the further distance that that destiny and destination became for us. Uh in uh 2001, in the beginning of the Second Intifada, a few days before Pesach, my cousin Naftali Lansky, who was waiting for a bus on his last day of school before Pesach vacation, um a Hamas suicide bomber uh detonated a bomb and killed my cousin and his friend Eliran Rosenberg on the spot, named the other children, and it recalibrated my entire compass, recalibrated um um my value systems, um and really put me back on track to evaluate the choices that I was making, the career choices that I was making, and where um almost a smack in the face of of just waking myself up this to to see where where I wanted to raise my family. It's really amazing. Of course, a shout-out to your to your partner in crime who made made it happen here in Boca, our beloved Tony Gelbart. Rabbi Brander, you um you made your aliyah from Boca before you made aliyah. You made a pitstop in New York on your way to Israel. Um talk to us about where did that love of Israel come from? Where did that first idea of aliyah come from? I Since I've known you, since you were my mentor teaching us here in Boca, you always had a foot, a toe on your way there. That's clearly where you wanted even when you were making such a difference here. Um what what flipped, what switched that that that brought you there, and where did those feelings first come from? Thank you. Well, first of all, I just want to say one thing that I think Rabbi Fass represents to me that sometimes you know, we ask sometimes why bad things happen to good people. We'll never know that answer. That's what Iyov's all about. But when bad things happen, when tragedy happens, how you take that tragedy and able to turn it around is what Nefesh B'Nefesh uh was born out of, and that's because of Rabbi Fass's unbelievable work not only with his partner, Tony, but also with his Eishes Chayil, who was willing to uh take that unbelievable leap. So, kol hakavod. Uh I had the privilege of being a client, not only watching it uh incubate, but I had the privilege of being a client. So, I thank you on so many different levels. For for I I think for Ruchie and I, first of all, when we got married, we always talked about making aliyah. For me personally, I think the experience that I had that I think cemented that was my learning in Shalvim. Until then I had seen people who are really serious Zionists. Um I didn't always think that they were celebrating with the rest of the Torah the way it should be celebrated. And then I saw people who were celebrating Torah so significantly but had forgotten about the gift that Hakadosh Baruch Hu had given us with Medinat Yisrael. And then I went to Shalvim and I met a group of people who learned Yom u'Layla and also were serving in the IDF. My Rebbe uh the only time uh he went on a plane is when he would jump out as a Sandek. Uh my Chavruta uh my older Chavruta was lost in the Lebanon War. Uh my my older Chavruta Um one of my other Rabbanim uh would jog a few times a week to stay in shape as he was also doing Miluim. I saw the synergy between being part of a Mesorah as well as embracing an unbelievable new reality and you could live in both words worlds and I saw that with Medinat Yisrael and that always moved me. Also it was also part of the DNA of my wife of Ruchi uh who always talked about making Aliyah. And then when we started getting serious about it, we would ask as one should, we would ask questions. We I remember a long conversation which we don't have time to repeat now with Rav Lichtenstein who told me that uh at one point I should not make Aliyah, that my responsibility was to stay in Chutz La'aretz and encouraged me very strongly to leave Boca very strongly uh and to go to YU. His exact words were final words of an hour conversation which I had to do significant research to understand uh was basically if my father-in-law was here he would say Kenny it's time for you to go to YU which is not language that Reb Hirsch would normally use. But then um this burning desire to be part of not a footnote of the Jewish people at this point in time but part of the chapter heading which is I think what's happening in in in in Israel. Footnotes are extremely important and the work going on in America, the work Rabbi Goldberg that you're doing is just amazing. You continue to be a very significant leader not just for the Boca community but throughout the Jewish world. Amazing. Amazing amazing work you're doing. And when you do work like that you have to ask shailos if you can leave. But then Rabbi Riskin came to me and said I know you've been waiting for an opportunity. I have 27 institutions, 5,000 students. I work with half a million Israelis a year. I'm 78 years old. It's I I've been waiting eight years to find somebody. Please consider taking this position. Um and uh talked about it for six months and it has been a unbelievable dream a zchut to be able to play uh we some limited role in helping uh world Jewry. So that's it's a pretty simple story and if I may add one piece in addition to being inspired by Yeshivat Chovevei I was inspired we were inspired Ruchie and I were inspired by our children. Yoni and Neudi made aliyah before us. Uh Yosef uh made aliyah before us. Uh again with help from uh Nefesh B'Nefesh and uh um you know when you got children who actually uh actually listen to what they're taught in the schools and what they hear at home, it's a little hard when you're offered such an unbelievable opportunity uh to be able, you know, not to be able to take advantage of this opportunity to live where you've wanted to live almost your entire adult life. It's really amazing. We're going to come back to it to learn more about what Or Torah Stone and and your vision and and what's happening with it. Rabbi Fass, coming back to you, Nefesh b'Nefesh, when when you began it and it was a seedling of an idea in Capetown and Montoya Circle, would you have dreamt it would have grown to what it is today? That you're not only have continued to be an inspired rabbi, a rav, teacher to so many, but you're you're the CEO of an enormous organization. So, share with us what what's the staff today of Nefesh b'Nefesh? Um what are some of the data and statistics about aliyah, lone soldiers, you know, every day you get another flyer when we were able to convene hosting more um more uh efforts to bring us an aliyah. I know listening to that that day that you hosted in Israel, Nachum Segal, where the soldiers can come and take care of everything in one day. They're constantly trying to improve and grow and and make aliyah streamlined and easier easier than ever. I have a sibling who made aliyah before Nefesh, one after, and the difference, you talk to anybody, they'll tell you what the difference what Nefesh b'Nefesh has done to streamline and make aliyah so much easier and and job placement and all that. So, you know, sort of uh obviously we could talk about this for hours and hours, but tell us a little bit your Did you know you had that entrepreneurship and that leadership and that business within you and what is Nefesh b'Nefesh uh today? I did not know I had any. I was relying on Tony for all that uh expertise. Um we never imagined that it would it would become what it is today. We always viewed it as uh a foundation to help people, to remove the obstacles, to allow them to have an effective, easier, successful aliyah and at the same time bring good news to Israel, which desperately at that time needed it. Um, over the years, we became uh a real institution. And that's what's a bit shocking to me still when I when when we have conversations with government officials and we're viewed and we are recognized as the arm for the government of Israel and Jewish Agency for North American Aliyah. Um, we never thought we would replace, we thought we would complement and maybe supplement, but not substitute. And so that is it's a remarkable privilege to be able to make dreams happen for individuals, but also um, be an arm for for the state of Israel and Klal Yisrael. Um, we fast forward from that first flight with 400 people on that jumbo jet, July 9th, 2002. Um, we're this summer we'll finish with 65,000 olim. 65,000 people with over a 95% retention rate and 25,000 sabras and sabralettes born in Israel. It's uh, it's 100,000 people, nearing 100,000 people in Israel walking around with those dorky Nefesh B'Nefesh hats. It's uh, it's an incredible universe living in 130 different communities. So, just that privilege of being a small part in connecting the dots of returning people to their homeland and fulfilling generations of dreams is just overwhelming. It's overwhelming for me and overwhelming for Tony, overwhelming for everyone involved. We have 100 staff in Israel. We have five offices. Jerusalem, Beersheva, Karmiel, two in Tel Aviv. Um, one in London, one in New Jersey, so seven. Um, and it's just it's it's just we never thought it would get to this point. And then in 2010, 2011 Give us some insight. What's next for Nefesh B'Nefesh? What are What are we going to see? I'll get there in a second. We'll get But in in in in in 2011, 2012, the the the country started looking at us as creating national solutions, which for us profoundly changed the way that we viewed ourselves and the way that we viewed our our mission. Um and that was being tasked with lone soldiers, with 3,700 lone soldiers every year from 70 countries. Um building the north and south, bringing physicians. We bring 45 North American physicians every year. We brought over 650 physicians every hospital, every clinic as a Nefesh physician there, which is incredible. Um educators. Now we're doing a high-tech initiative. So we're being called upon to do national addressing national issues is another profound level of pride and and scope and privilege. Um what's next? Um we have uh we want to do vertical rather Brandy used to talk about this all the time, vertical articulated growth and horizontal articulated growth. So we want to grow to to other countries, to other individuals who want our help. And we have uh great plans in Israel, please God when all of when normalcy returns, which we're all longing for, um we'll be able to get back to uh building what we want to build both as an institution and also by programming for for anyone who wants to move and those who are integrating in Israel as well. It's really amazing. You talk about not a footnote, not not just a chapter title, it could be a book onto itself, a volume. Nefesh b'Nefesh is doing and and you know, to know you is a privilege and and you and Tony and to know the difference that you're making that history will record. It's really it's extraordinary. You know, sometimes um it it's know you to know how normal you are. Tony, you take it for granted, but when you look at it in a greater context, a broader context, it's really amazing. Kol hakavod. Thank you for all that leadership. You know, Rabbi Brandy, you referenced the Or Torah Stone engine, what it is in terms of its institutions and the people and the difference it's making. If if you had to summarize, what's the common thread, the common denominator, the common mission statement or vision for all these institutions, um what's it doing now? And one thing we all know about you is there's always what's next. There's always what's bigger, better, and the bigger difference you're going to make. Um talk about entrepreneurship and vision and executing on it. What's the common denominator that binds all these different parts of Orthodoxy together, and how are you going to take all of that and where are you bringing it next? Um well, I think if I had to define it First of all, the interesting thing is for me personally, this is the first time I'm not I'm not part of a startup. Uh you know, Boca Raton Synagogue was basically a startup. I didn't start Boca Raton Synagogue, but it was somewhat of a startup. Yeshiva University wasn't a startup, but the pieces I was involved in, at least initially, were all from scratch or somewhat from scratch. Here, my goal is really to build a second, third, and fourth floor on what was built by Rabbi Riskin. He should live and be well. And I think it's really like a Jewish Amazon. It's really the living, learning, and leading for the Torah Modern Orthodox community. And just to go through some of the parts, I mean, we have six high schools. We have 3,500 kids in the high schools. Waiting lists to get into most of those schools. There's a time during the year that going to shul was a risky thing because I don't get to down with the minyan anyways cuz kids I'll get haunted by kids who can't who couldn't get into some of these schools. But the schools are doing extremely well, but also, again, based on a lot of the experiences that I was taught in Boca, even the schools that are viewed as like the Neve Shmuels that the army has listed as number five in the country for producing combat officers, and the country has listed as like number 14 in the country for the quality of its education, realizes that it needs to educate all children with all different special with all different needs and so therefore there's a special ed track of significance in every one of our every one of our six schools. Um so there's 3,500 students there we're always trying to make sure the quality of the education is significant and improving on it. Uh there's a focus on inclusion um not only in all of our high schools but also we have a program called Darcheinu which is a program that allows kids post high school to spend a year or two or three in Israel and you know, unfortunately today one of those alumni uh passed away in Flatbush uh Sadya Aaron Price um and you know, but for the most for most most days it's a joyous experience to see young men who in partnership with Gush and young women in part obviously as part of the Jewish Lindenbaum are part of our inclusion programs. Um today I have 350 women serving in the IDF plus an additional 60 who officially are not in the IDF but started their service earlier 60 more uh to help them with called Pikuda Oref to help with uh with the issues of uh Corona um and therefore they're not they're not legally yet in the army uh it's complicated and I don't fully understand it myself but they're not legally in the army but the 350 women who are legally in the army I have the privilege the esteemed privilege of still learning with them of still engaging with them. It's an amazing experience when you get driven to an army base and you're on Waze and all of a sudden Waze goes dark because you're about to go into a intelligence base and no longer Waze knows where it is. And then you sit and learn with a group of women at night after they've done a full day of service and you sitting and learning with them and they're so engaged with their learning. It's momish. You know, it's momish oh my hava to be able to have those experiences. We have young men in two of our Hesder programs. One of them actually received a an award from from the president today or actually virtually received the award from the president today. He's in a special commando unit that blows up tunnels. Um it's a Sayeret Yahalom. Um and he's part of the the commando units. I had the privilege of learning with him Bava Kamma. You know, when you teach people about responsibilities of damages and of treating property with respect and Kvod haBriyot and that same person is now a commander in in a commando unit. Um it's just it's not something that you're you're used to. In addition, we're working with around 600 agunot. We're the only organization that the Rabbanut recognizes that can represent women. Women can represent women in the Bet Din in the rabbinical courts. And I would say around 120 gittin we receive a year through that. We have 300 rabbinical couples around the world working with tens of thousands of Jews throughout South America, North America, and Europe, the United Kingdom. Those that is for me personally been the most intense time. We've dealt with uh very I've spoken to Rabbi Schachter several times dealing with halakhic issues like burial on Shabbat to avoid cremation. Um issues uh little bit about that. Yeah, I know. Hopefully in the good papers as well as the challenging ones. But the bottom line is you got to deal with the Halachic questions and sometimes as we all know, sometimes they don't always get it right in the media. But the bottom line is to have 300 rabbinic couples who are doing just amazing work. Two of the couples have had children, uh, boys and they have not yet had a bris. One was, uh, a week ago, one was a month ago, but they haven't a mohel hasn't been able to get there yet. And then the most unbelievable thing is we've been able to take the ideas that we saw in Boca and that you continue to do Rabbi Goldberg so beautifully. Um, but we do it on this massive scale. Like for example, we had, uh, Megillah in the park and, uh, we had 40,000 Israelis come to Megillah in the park plus another 800 who are already in quarantine, 800 families. Talking about interacting with around 400,000 Israelis a year. Um, and then we're involved in, uh, in, uh, the Rabbanut. We we have, uh, rabbinical schools, we have kolelin. So it's a really full modern Orthodox Torah movement. My goals are to make sure that those are solid and then there's a few new projects. Uh, one of them, uh, love to get both of your inputs in. We're going to start training, uh, in a full very significant way rabbis, Israeli rabbis. Um, give them a year sabbatical and give them serious work and what it means to be a rav. And then we're going to start going through some of the Halachic issues, the Halachic issues of dealing with minorities in Israel. And what are the Halachic responsibilities of dealing with minorities? It's an issue that's that the uh, Torah observant community deals with and there's there's other issues, you know, latitude and longitude as Rabbi Fass spoke about. And uh again, a blessing every single day that I'm able to work with such talented people and hopefully uh uh make some input impact on the Israeli community and on the Jewish community throughout the world. Really amazing just to use the word movement to be involved in leading a movement is so much more than an organization or an institution or even its parts. I want to pivot to a different conversation, one that it's a challenging conversation. I don't think it's uncomfortable, maybe it will be more for me or us than it is for the two of you at this point. The question of Aliyah. And you know, if if I look at the the diaspora population of Jews, I think there's a significant segment where Aliyah's not on their radar either because of their level of assimilation, ignorance, lack of affiliation, because of they may be extremely affiliated but their Hashkafa doesn't promote it, people who are entrenched, they're on they're very comfortable here. It's not even Hashbon, it's not on their radar they're not even thinking about it. A whole other world of people and I would include myself among them for whom both of you described that Aliyah was in the back of your lives from a young age. It wasn't a question but when and there's a whole world of people who say, you know what, I I will be there one day. It's where I belong, it's where I want to be but circumstances are such right now whatever for whatever reason, either I'm a I'm a rabbi, community leader, financially, health, family, whatever those reasons are. And I'm curious if you both have a message for each of those two popula- populations and and Rabbi Fass obviously this is what you think about and about day and night but but what would you do to wake up or population not even thinking about it to say, look at your life and consider this extraordinary change. And what would you say to the people who for whatever reason they're not there yet? Is the answer to convince them they are there even now? Is the answer to say, here's what you can be doing until you're there and when you'll be there, we'll be ready and we'll make it easier for you. What what is the response or how can we how can we increase those numbers? How can we make Aliyah more on more on the radar, more part of the conversation? Can we get more from each of those two populations if you agree that it's a fair perspective or to divide it that simplistic way among the groups. So, what would you say to Rabbi Fast? Okay, so let's take the two categories. Um let's talk about our our Khusya, our audience of individuals who are Zionists, who are connected to Israel. Um I think I had a conversation this morning with my mother. We had a a nice Yom Ha'atzmaut shmooze. And I think coronavirus and being doing in quarantine is getting to all of us. And we're talking about the takeaways of this experience. What are we supposed to learn from it? And said something very wise that there's a difference between desire and longing. And and we were discussing what does longing mean versus desiring something? And take uh from let's Rabbi Rabbi Goldberg, let's take your life for a second. Just the three of us. Those are just It's okay. You've been quarantined. You've had remarkable time with your family. You've been davening either Zoom or privately and probably had some very special tfilot. Um you're learning through Zoom and conducting lessons through Zoom and I've listened to many of them and I think you're remarkable and articulate and I've even sent you messages that you've given me feels of through some of your Torah. And we are zooming left and right with family members. Um but we are longing to go back to normal life. Um it's a taste of being disconnected. It's a taste of being out of place. And I'm seeing we're flooded now. We're being flooded by individuals who either had dormant applications or people who are always professing to be Zionists and now they're interested in making Aliyah. In the last two weeks, we're up 25% 30% of applications just in this month. Wow. And the people are saying something very interesting. I've been calling it Kamat, Kehila Mishpacha Ta'asuka. It is this complete like chiropractic adjustment of life. Of people who felt that their identity was purely in community. People who felt that family, that closeness or the proximity to family was a complete obstacle or or professional life or business. And the coronavirus with quarantining us and putting us disconnected somewhat from our normal life, from family, from community, gave some silence and quiet to people to really introspect. And uh, we're seeing just this recalibration of sorts of people longing for something. Not desiring cuz we get so caught up in desiring, but really longing for that feeling of connection, of of feeling to be part of something. The feeling that something connects and fits. Um, and I I think that is the takeaway that we have to that we have to emphasize and stress. Not only us and not only Rabbi Brandel, but community leaders like you. Of we just tasted a sliver of what galut means. We've been exiled from our normal life. Now, could you imagine what we're supposed to feel like exiled from our homeland? And we have to pick up on all these messages. Beautiful of cook. I have to see people Yeshua the in Shabbos of Hakadosh Baruch Hu is going to evaluate our see Pita see pool Yeshua whether or not we longed or we looked forward to Yeshua. And everyone quotes that Kamara and everyone quotes the Hafetz Chaim on it. And the Hafetz Chaim whether or not it's apocryphal or not had clothing for Mashiach the next morning and that was his see Pita Yeshua. But Rav Kook said no, it has to be movil l'maaseh. You have to have an action. And he says what's it so far? What's see Pita? See Pita comes from the word scout. A scout runs ahead. A scout looks at the wind, looks at movement, looks at bushes, looks at path, looks at tracks. He's looking at the entire environment and making action steps based on all those tiny little messages and movements. And that's what see Pita Yeshua is. Whether or not you make Aliyah or not doesn't really make a difference cuz the Kamara doesn't say did you make Aliyah or not. The Kamara says see Pita Yeshua, did you open your eyes to all the messages around you? Just did you just even long for something? Did you recalibrate just priorities and ideals? That's what we have to tell people. I think people think that Aliyah or Israel is a zero-sum game. You can really truly be a Zionist if you make Aliyah. That's not true. Well, there's a lot of reasons why you can't or you shouldn't. Like you Brandon mentioned it beforehand. Some people can't because they're taking care of family members. Some people can't because it's not the right age for children. But did you long for it? Was it always in the back of your head? That's the question that's going to be asked. And if you have that longing and yearning, then the moment you have that window that's open for you, you grab it, you jump. The second group of people I don't know. You want to just take a historic chiropractic crank of the neck of having people understand that they feel out that they're that they're davening, understand what history is. I think we either are spiritually numbed or historically ignorant or but we have to but we have to have a sense of of connection. And we have have a sense of just knowledge and intellect and just having it real. I find that Rabbi Branders mentioned this beforehand, a lot of people who might be going through the motions, who not don't take a step back and understand what Nevi'im were saying and what Hakadosh Baruch Hu wants from us. And let's stop getting into the cerebral gymnastics and the mental gymnastics and understand what's the pulse behind it all. And where should we be as a people? And where should we be as individuals? But that's not the discourse, unfortunately. Cuz we're we're doing a shock with a tire whether or not hallo should be said with a bracha or not and not asking ourselves what am I doing with my life? But that's But but I leave the second category of people for you. I'll deal with the first category. It's complicated. And you know, I I'm going to want to go to maybe we'll come back to now or if not we can continue this conversation. Um and some of the everyone should continue the conversation with them but what what can I as a as a rabbi, what can we leaders, what can everyone do within their own family where they're their own leader to try to promote that longing? Uh is it trips to Israel? Is it checking Israel news every day? Is it positive experiences, connections with Israel? What are these do that would stimulate, provoke, promote, reinforce the longing so that the longing is there and the minute it's released with the window you describe, people will want to walk through it. How can we better do that longing? We'll come back to that in one minute but um Rabbi Branders, what what would you say to the people? Um tell us about your aliyah. I'm sure Nefesh b'Nefesh and others it was uh a smooth process. I'm sure there were obstacles to it because changing to another language, another culture, another land is never easy. It's got to be challenging, too. What would you say to people? You also a little bit further in your career and in life than than the fastest. And had to moment was right, the opportunity was right, and you went then. What are the things people can be doing so then the opportunity itself they're ready or looking for that opportunity because it's always in the not only the back of their mind, but the forefront of their mind about where they belong. How can aliyah become more of a conversation? And really going back to what Rabbi Fass said, what's the role of a Zionist who's not yet ready to make aliyah? They express themselves in times of Israel minutes or by giving to to JNF and and What What What is the role? How do they express that longing even when they're not yet there or in the position to go? I just threw a lot at you, but you can handle it. Okay. Um first of all, um just you mentioned in your first thing about uh finances and things of that nature, you know, I think again with experts, which I'm not, I think finances is not a reason not to make aliyah. If If anything uh you know, we made aliyah where most of our tuitions were already uh paid for. Um but if I look at how much money I spent on tuitions, uh well well-deserved money, in other words, I think you should vote should be charging at least what they uh charge, um especially the wonderful institutions in Boca. But the bottom line is that your financial needs are are more limited here. There you don't need as much. Um you don't need as much for a whole bunch of different reasons. Um and you should speak to aliyah advisers when it comes to issues of finances. Education of your kids, yes, there are there are differences. Classroom sizes are a lot larger. But the bottom line is the learning that my son is doing the Torah learning that my son in ninth grade I mean, in addition to the fact that he's keeping up with the daf yomi, in addition that he does a period of Tanakh every single day, in addition that a few of his friends and him just finished Shas Mishnayos for the second or third time. It's just unbelievable. The And that doesn't take away from their from the general studies. The focus on math and sciences are very, very significant. Very significant. Um there isn't always the personalized attention, and sometimes you have to surround people with that. But the bottom line is every educational system has challenges, and you have to make sure your children are are growing. But the bottom line is I think what Rabbi Fass said what I think about all the time is I just every single day, almost every day I'm inspired. This week, like for example, Yom Ha'atzmaut Yom Ha'atzmaut, at the end of Yom Ha'atzmaut um uh or or Yom or Yom Ha'Zikaron, it the national Yom Ha'Zikaron that this year was done in front of the Jaffa Gate, Sha'ar Yafo. Started out with a divrei Torah from about Acharei Mot Kedoshim. The singing that was done in um uh in front of the Knesset the one of the songs was Chevlei Ha'Mashiach. I mean, this is not, you know, a group in a Haredi group. This is the national uh this is the national uh stage. When the prime minister discusses issues of how to deal with Corona, he speaks about how many people can be in a minyan. That's not a fabrication, it's not an exaggeration, it's it's the reality. Uh we bought some takeout food last week. Um my wife was waiting online right behind her. But you have to wait online. You can't go into the store. You only let a certain amount of people in the store. Right behind her was Natan Sharansky. In Boca, I lived 40 minutes from Yogurt Rendezvous. Now I live 40 minutes from the bait where the base of Migdal was walking. 40 minutes walking. The all the youth 2 days ago got a list of all of the Mishpachot Shkulo all of them who have lost loved ones in their in their in the area where they live so that they could go visit them. It's just a different world. You know, you you admonish see the second the haftorah that was read this morning. I read the haftorah. It's coming It's just I'm just seeing it in front of me. You know, the Kabbalah show for the cut One second. I want to talk to you for one second and I apologize for that. But only only to push back to get the conversation going that what you're describing, it's it's amazing and the picture that you're painting, it's it's you know, to me it it gives me goosebumps. The problem is what would you say to the family in America who says, "All that's well and good and lovely and what you're describing is amazing. I'm fighting anxiety within my home. I have mental challenges. I'm trying to pay the bills. I'm I have strife in my marriage. Shidduchim. Whatever like like the ability to get to the place of dreaming or wanting to be able to walk Well, I would say I would say If Peter if you want to follow the Peter of Yeshua, first of all, I think not everyone has to make aliyah. I think the work that's being done with AIPAC or going to visit Israel and things of that nature are critical. Making sure educators have that spiritual compass of being connected to not just Eretz Yisrael, but Medina Yisrael is also a critical piece. But the other thing that I think is critically critically important is the recognition of the fact that we all our first responsibility is our families. Our first responsibility is to make sure our families are whole. But, we need to make sure and ask yourself the question, have we I mean our the couple, the spouse, the husband and wife, have they had a conversation with a Nefesh b'Nefesh advisor and asked all these questions? Have they had a conversation with someone like yourself or Rabbi Goldberg who's an unbelievable pastoral rabbi or your whole wonderful team and asked to work things out? And the answer might be it's not for us and that's a fine answer. Cuz sippur Yeshua means that I've done my due diligence. And that's that's fine. And sometimes the answer is it's not for us. The And that's an also fine answer. But then the answer is that when I have time for vacation, I vacation in Israel. I don't vacation in Switzerland. When I have time to do certain things, I make sure that my focus is towards the land of Israel. I think that that's critical thing. And And again, it's very nice for people to give us tzedakah in Israel. We're no longer I mean, Or Torah Stone needs to raise a few billion dollars a year, 9 or 10 million dollars. But the bottom line is we're no longer the poor cousins. I think that institutions, communities need to make sure that their institutions are strong before they give outside that their institutions. But the bottom line is I think we people families need to talk amongst themselves. Where are we up to? What are we doing? What do we have a game plan? If we can't make aliyah, then how are we making sure that the land of Israel, the people of Israel, the state of Israel is part and parcel of our Weltanschauung. And I think then if you if people don't make aliyah as in our experiences, our children made aliyah beforehand, and that will happen with them also. And uh at the end of the day, we have to make sure that our that our families are healthy. And and and a cornerstone of religious Zionism is making sure that the diaspora has the proper leaders. That's a a responsibility of religious Zionism, also. I appreciate both of your answers. I think it's it's such an important conversation. It's one that we three of us, but or collectively and broadly, have to have to keep having. We're The time is flying by. We could all day. Uh we're up against the clock. I really have time for one last question to both of you, and it's with two parts. Um and I want to end with the hopeful part. We're on Yom Ha'atzmaut. We're celebrating the 72nd birthday birthday. A milestone for 2,000 years we waited for a long Every Yom Ha'atzmaut, I think to myself that if you don't say it is a miracle, just ask yourself if the United Nation and and Bill de Blasio and uh the nations of the world had to vote for the founding of a state for the Jewish people today, would they? Just a mere these two years later. And and I All of us know how that would turn out. So, it's clearly extraordinary miracle. Um talk to us in these couple minutes each of you, if you would. Um what are you concerned about in Israel today? What concerns you? Whatever population demographic trend you want to talk about. But looking at Israel, concerns you, enemies outside or inside the political system. What are your concerns about Israel? And then and end on this move with what you're hopeful about. What do you think is going so right, is so amazing? What is the promise of tomorrow for the state of Israel and the people of Israel in general? So, out of my fast, please. It's it's uh it's our anniversary. So, you you only speak beautifully about uh your spouse on your anniversary day, or always. Um now, what what Seriously, what what um what concerns me is the imbalance of socioeconomic balance among certain populations. And uh and the very disease that's always plagued us of disunity. I think um we still struggle for achdut. And um and I think this uh we're we're repeating a another historic revolution here. Um David and they had uh they had 73 years of malchut, and then we had from Hasmonean to Shimon, another 73 years. Now we're going to 72 years of governorship. Both those collapsed because of of lack of unity. Let's hopefully um somehow inch inch our way over to to more unity within within our people. Um those two, just the disparaging element and and the disunity and um and the asymmetry within our populations. But there is so much hopeful optimism, promise, that is happening on every front. It's just unbelievable. I mean as a as a nation, as a country, technologically, militarily, medically, I mean we are paving the way. Our brain, you know, our our just a high-tech and our brain trust is just leading the industry. And Torah itself, just the the volume and the amount of Torah that's being learned, um just both the the breadth and depth of Torah. And then even the Haredi population starting to get closer in to into the workforce, which is great, which is incredible. And there's emerging young leadership, which is fantastic, which hopefully there could be a changing of some guard of the political system. And we're seeing some really incredibly talented individuals. And we have values. You see that the general population is very anchored in values. Is a returning to values. It used to be a huge split in Israel for years. You would have this party versus that party. This party was more salty, was traditional. This party was a rejection. And we went through some educational ministers who were rejectionists of certain educational processes and knowledge for our children. The common denominator here in Israel is remarkable. It's tradition, it's history, it's connectivity. It's when your kid learns Navi, they go out to the backyard and they take a tiyul, a trip to see the sukkah come alive. That's what my kids go through. I mean, and that's part and parcel of their curriculum. And that's not because they're dati, that's because they're living in the state of Israel that's connecting itself to its history. And the regional politics also, I mean, who would have thought um the different dialoguing that's happening between certain Arab worlds and Arab countries in Israel. So, there is a lot a lot of promise, a lot of optimism. Um and just just never uh Rabbi Brandon said it beforehand, you just have to open your eyes and just see the beauty around you. You can every day you can write 50 or to 73 reasons why one person's that you're inspired. You go to shul, you get to work, you come back home. Every encounter is just profoundly inspiring. And I think us as a as a people, we have to take this Yom Ha'atzmaut, you have to talk to a case manager or not talk to a case manager, just pinch yourself. Just pinch yourself. Who cares if you say hallel or not? Who cares? Just pinch yourself. We are living modern miracles, we're living history, we're living prophetic visions, we're living through remarkable remarkable times. Let's not sleep through it. Let's not ignore it. Let's not Let's not be blind to it. Just genug enough for you just to open your eyes and appreciate what Hashem's giving us right now. Forget about our reaction towards it. Just embrace it. I I once said, you know, someone I was on a radio show in Israel, this Haredi radio show years ago and they were going into they were going into this whole concept of whether or not the mitzvah of Aliyah is d'oraita d'rabannan was it biblical or rabbinic. I said, "Who cares? I just embrace the gift. It's a gift. You know what God wants you to do? Why we complaining whether or not batteries are included or not? Just embrace it. It's a gift that's given God's giving us. So, I think there's a lot of promise and a lot of optimism and a lot of hope and there's so much to celebrate and so much to be to be lucky for and grateful for and who knows why our generation has been privileged to live in this time, but Hag Gad Sameach and I'm going to let Rabbi Brander end on his optimism as well. Rabbi Brander, what what concerns you? What makes you super hopeful that as we celebrate this anniversary? Well, again, I think we'll be start with the hopefulness and if we have time, we'll focus on the challenges, but you know, I think there's a word in the Israeli language that I don't believe is a truthful word, the word filoni, secular Israeli. I don't I haven't met a secular Israeli. I meet many people who are not fully externally observant, but you know, the the major highway Kvish on Yom Kippur morning, you could put a bed in middle of the highway and sleep very soundly because there won't be a car around that Kvish. Um over 95% or 98% of the people in Israel give their boys uh milah. Um you have thousands thousands that will go to the Tel Aviv ports on on Arab Shabbos and have a Kabbalat Shabbos service. Hundreds at the Tahan Rishona. There is a search for spirituality. Um, I was in a cab after my grandson's bris and um I was my first grandson's bris. Second one was on Shabbat. Um, and uh there was a guy who was driving the cab. He had multiple body piercings. And he um he stopped me. He asked me where I was I was in a suit and tie which doesn't normally happen so much in Israel. Um, and uh he asked me where I was coming from. I said a bris of my grandson. He turned off the meter. Put the moved the taxi to a side. Uh, and he asked for a bracha because I mentioned to him I was the sandek. This guy he didn't look like he was observant. I was at a Simchat Torah event that we were running an outreach Simchat Torah event. And it was in Tel Aviv. And uh it was on the streets. Uh, it was on Shemini Atzeret one day of uh And uh a car was driving by. The woman in the cab rolled down her window, stuck her hand out to kiss the Sefer Torah in the cab. The cab went all right uh back because the driver was upset that he didn't kiss the Torah. So, the woman stuck her hand out again, touched the Torah, gave her hand to the driver who then kissed her hand. Can't forget about Even HaEzer Siman Kof Alef. The bottom line is that there's just a search for spirituality. There is a connection to the roots, where Rabbi Fast mentioned it, you know, the big issue between Kahol Lavan or Likud, I mean, it's not Democrats and Republicans. It's It's It's very much a similar histalut. It's a very similar you know, approach. Um it's not like what's going on in England or going on in America or things of that nature. Challenges The challenges are that we have to take advantage of this unbelievable opportunity gift that we've been given of kibbutz galuyot, of of being able to do the things that we are all able to do. And sometimes, if for example, God forbid, if it became a law in the country that you had to circumcise your your child, your baby boy, that 98% rate would drop to 78% in a matter of 5 years. There's something we have to learn about how we engage each other. We have to create reishit tzmichat geulatenu. We have to figure out a way for all minorities, whether it's Chareidim, whether it's Ethiopians, whether it's Christian Arabs, Muslim Arabs. We got to figure out a way of try trying to work better. And I you know, I think that I think it's happening. I think there's a lot of unbelievable work enough time to talk about it now. Working on that, but that disturbs me. It hurts the fabric of the Jewish people. It hurts the fabric of our children, of their of their souls. And I think we have to work on that, but baruch Hashem, uh we have that opportunity. And as Rabbi Fast said so beautifully, we mamash you don't need to know Tanakh to know that sukkat of Tanakh are just coming alive in in in front of you. And it's an unbelievable opportunity that this generation has. And we have to make sure that as Shira Shirim speaks about, we just don't sleep through this. Whether we live in Jerusalem, Beit Shemesh, in the south, in the north, or in Boca Raton, or in New York, or in Europe. We have to make sure that we understand the gift that this generation has been given. Rabbi Brendel, Rabbi Fast, it's been a fantastic conversation. It's been even fantastic just to be back together and to spend time with you. We should do it more often. So, I want to thank you for taking time out of your Yom Ha'atzmaut. And thank you for inspiring all of us for all that you do, for your leadership Boca, and the two of you still very, very connected. So, it's been wonderful to be together, and I want to remind the people who are watching that we have a full day of total learning of Torah of Israel. People who taught in Boca who now live Israel will be giving shiurim throughout the entire day. We're grateful to all of them. Continue tune in, and we're to learning together and ultimately to being together someday very, very soon. So, thank you both very much. Love to your families. It's an opportunity. It's great to see you both. Thank you. Thank you so much. Kol Hakavod to everything you're doing and everything you are, Efraim. Thank you. Chag Atzmaut Sameach. Chag Atzmaut Sameach.