Conversation - Interview of R. & Rebbetzin Goldberg on Covid-19 + More (Vayichan Program, 2020)

[Music] joining us from Florida Boca Raton Florida his rabbi F from Goldberg and his Rebbetzin you headed they run the largest shoal I think the largest shall baby in the United States certainly in the southern half of the United States it has thousands of McCollum I know people who dive in there they're known for their compassion for their love of quality strolls an honor to have you welcome rabbi and Rebbetzin goldberg thank you so much it's our honor to be together with you and part of this extraordinary program yeah so here's a question so many people have died right thousands literally thousands of from the people and children small children don't get it but all the children are asking the appearance no I mean why are so many wonderful people dying they're little people you know now a block tower next to a neighbor died one brother lost father daughter and brother-in-law's sister died another neighbor's sister died I've been by his his father and mother died and the kids are risking but these were wise and killing good people to write an eternal question but the fact that it's an old question doesn't mean that it doesn't require a response to a child so as a rug who has so many thousands of people coming through your door I'm sure you know Shiva calls the cut my vein limit said or something these are issues you deal with all the time and you probably better equipped to handle it than many of our other guests how would you respond how would you answer a trial it's a very very difficult question you want to go first I'm you know it's a complicated and difficult question I think the most important or first thing to do for a child is to validate not to try to make them feel bad or somehow as if they are diminished or inferior for asking the question they shouldn't feel as if religiously they are rebellious by asking that question they should know that people much greater than we who came along before asked the same question unless the moshe rabbeinu who said why do bad things happen to good people no less all right well Janice our carbonyl once said no to him you could only see the back of his head not the front we only understand things if we're lucky after the fact in retrospect after my vino protested over stone so I think the first and most important thing to do is to validate the person who's asking you to say this is a difficult question it doesn't make you into some rebellious or religiously corrupt personality in fact to even ask that question in itself is an expression of faith because if you don't believe in Marie bollam you don't even ask that so no it's great they're asking the question but they're keeping communication open that they want to hear from their parents or from the Mohonasen why is this happening you know it's said that they're thinking along those lines they're not just accepting it but they they care to know why it's important to have those questions too many children have been turned off off the derrick and they look back and say because when I had questions like that I was accused we don't ask those or where's your Emunah or how dare you so we have to be able to validate that I think is number one and to empathize to share in the pain and to frankly say I have very similar questions I lost my cousin's husband was not standing on the hakama hobbits forum really one of them it's the animal of the lake you learn with me in the mirror shall I oh oh abdominal offend also you know him and none of us can understand that his 12 children don't understand that his level of house mother is her tummy mistake he was I have the same question it's not just a question that children have but that's part of our tradition is that in those moments like our Anna Cohen biodome our own that sometimes even with our silence we put one foot in front of another we find that capacity that's number one I think that we also draw strength from some of the really extraordinary strong people who've been through this and even much worse and multiples of it who nevertheless continued with their Emunah and we ride on their Kotel so you could speak about Martin or speak about connection with the Holocaust right when you see in our community the Holocaust survivors force will come in a shul and there's still you know doing all of their you know they're still spiritual and god-fearing Jews and so active in communities and you know you realize that they moved on they're able to put one foot in front of the other and still survive and not just survive but thrive and and build communities and you know if they could do it after what they went through Calma Homer where we're able to see we can put one foot in front the other during these times that doesn't mean that you turn and you say to them you can't ask that question how dare you look at the Holocaust that order what it means is if they have the if they have the tenacity the resiliency - nevertheless stay true to a life of Torah and mitzvot then we can ride their coattails we can grab on to them and that famous story of the Blues of Aruba we can hold on to them while we jump across the jump across that great chasm that's there so I think that we have that we have that opportunity I also and I'm sure when I move on to other questions but early on in my career I did a la vie for a woman I'd never met I knew the children and when I met with the family and I asked about her I said was she a religious person was she told observant person the answer was no and then the sun'll of pause then he said you know but she was she had a tremendous relationship with Hashem and so what do you mean could you explain that he said she was a survivor and her whole life after the war after all she had lost she continued to protest and challenge she was angry at God and he turned to mean he taught me a huge lesson he said you know that anger was in itself an expression of faith because you're not angry at someone or something you don't believe exists the very fact that you're frustrated or you protest or your object or you're disappointed just reflects the depth of the relationship and I think that that's what we can do with children to say the fact that you feel that reflects just how real Hashem is for you because otherwise you wouldn't be disappointed you wouldn't have these questions if a world of chaos and a world that lacked order or meaning then you would just accept everything the way the way it happens it's in nature it's it's just random it's just statistics the fact that it bothers you shows there's our Shem in your life so lean into that question and spend your life exploring that question and use it to bring you closer to him don't use it as an excuse to walk away right now we could guide them but who could be he said let's see the kid is not rebelling and he just wants it how would you respond I just found Saudi Varallo again this is an ancient question as we've talked about it goes back to our very of us and hemo hosts it goes back to throughout our tradition tonight my room I'm Mariah Michonne Amanda her own him and we've been asking it in each and every generation and we've had reason to ask it Nietzsche every generation oppression persecution suffering loss and we're experiencing them now and we have principles of Chemosh Nissan whooshes LaMarcus he's not my friend we don't understand why the mahkum others chooses who he chooses as am i gay that's a plague and everyone is vulnerable the most righteous among us we can get into the theology and theodicy why bad things happen to good people but at the very surface I think it's a moment and and the truth is in a much broader way this whole experience for our children is the most powerful lesson it's a life lesson it's not an academic lesson it's not in your Shiva the based measures of the classroom it's that life lesson of knowing that sometimes things don't work out the way you want and sometimes we don't have all the answers because if we understood everything then we would be Hashem so part of the very notion the concessions submitting that there is a God is to submit that there are things I cannot and will not and will never understand it's his world and he runs it the way he wants and that keeps us all honest because if only good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people then none of us would have free will and free will is the is what animates life it's the very purpose of why we're here is to live a heart the Baha'i and we have freewill and the consequences of the decisions that we make leave us closer to him/her further from him so if only good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people who wouldn't be good who would ever choose to be bad so I shouldn't mixes it up and he lets sometimes nature takes its course and there's periods it has to upon him and it keeps all of us honest to do the good things because they're the right things to do not because we expect he'll then treat us well so I think that part of the answer is that as Jews we often were comfortable with not knowing but this is all Modi Baraka Roo say this is the rocks and Hashem we don't understand that when the kabbala what is the story they said it over they say it from another model they asked them if you were if you work a vehicle what would you do different she said I would do nothing different but at least I would understand why it's happening right but I would do nothing different so the gomorian yamas says that you know from a pass against fine you ain't Pirani is below oil of L official you stroll and Rashi says kadesha a sensually Ruby a scooch over so we don't understand why Hashem is doing it right cubby Yoho you like math should I say my should I say him but the Gemara says but we are supposed to the truest it's it's coming for a reason so therefore child says what should are we supposed to be doing how would you respond can we learn from this what would you take away what can be different well I'll tell you you know I feel strongly about this and and I've engaged others about it by speaking about it publicly there was a there was a voice note that went around that was viral and something clear to whom it was directed or even who the speaker was who really tried to express that you know kid issues are out of control when Hashem is saying you can't have kid ishes and controller sham i said you have to stay home and and that while many people are moved by it and I'm not challenging them or the integrity or intent of the one who spoke it hit me in exactly the wrong way Barry Goldberg let me throw a few Mario yep heard a rabbi who said it's because of the gay pride margin in Israel and and my feeling about that is is that I said if you go into - no matter what's wrong with you call you end up with a muffler in fact the guy once went to - to use the men's room and they changed his muffler each of these people has some crank and some some crime guys that's running through the head so whatever happens that's the answer that's the real answer right right so I think that turns people off I know it turned me off because you know again I think that this whole experience should demand of us enormous sense of a nevis of humility and and the whole experience that are so humbled us none of us could have predicted it never saw it coming none of us would have imagined none of us would have believed the description of the world that we're seeing today all that should make us more humble not more arrogant to think that we should compete with a Shem to give everyone the answers about why everything's happening so I think there's an enormous difference to me our misura says that the one going through something is supposed to ask that question for themselves what am I meant to learn what am i meant to improve how I meant to grow what am I meant to take away I don't think our miss Ora says I'm supposed to tell you why you're going through your Eucerin and what you're meant to do and what to meant to learn from it or even why I'm going through it but don't say give reasons for we had to accept it and learn from it and try to improve through it but to start blaming it on things is not going to help anyone is certainly not gonna help our kids because then it's not like as if I Shelby's running it it's as if we are doing things that are causing it that's not helpful to anyone right so that's not to the exclusion of trying to grow from it so yeah we all have learned an enormous amount about how much we can stay home and I don't always have to run out and about how we can can simplify and consolidate our lives and how we can rethink is simcoe's and extravagant of course we're all learning those lessons and of course we're all talking about which ones we can take with us what we hope lasts what we hope doesn't last that's for us to each examine in our own way and for our own lives and when people so generically put a blanket and compete with and play like they're a sham I'm gonna speak in the voice of a sham and tell you what he's telling all of us that to me is clearer I mean that to me is exactly not our missile I don't know any of our good olam who ever said that and they never said it the Shasta mission Mesa Mutola fun of you know maybe after the fact with reflection is a time but while people are going to funerals and being deprived of shivers and while people are being denied Sinha's is not the time that we start explaining exactly why and especially because the question you asked earlier the Nova men's go rabid did not leave this world because of the kiddush is or because of the the simplest are out of control or other that they're gonna use idk more my cousin of Zalman he'll of the most humble spur they literally they weren't taken from us so I don't think when we try to give answers and we know we can't supply them then particularly kids and young people see right through it then we end up having the opposite effect of what we're trying to do so what would you suggest from the child asks your winter adult asks you says kedai she asks the children why don't know what's my hashtag was supposed to be now I understand that chimera to mean that what does it mean the peroneus are for you throw what it means is that every Jew is supposed to look at anything they see in the whole world and it's for with them it's actually switch partial matter yet though EEMA and the Shimon are told was a beautiful shot based on the bow shelter the Baal Shem Tov said in the mission a dumb alum Allah me mark no it's above your iron rose in sham ask how my sacrum is a finished album so instead of the usual chart which is and we understand this in our world more than any other because we're being recorded everywhere we go and everything we do through satellites and through things that are listening devices but the Baal Shem Tov says the clown with the Mishnah means what it means is damn allamani mark know that there's a Shem so I enroll were meant to see a nose ensure Massa whatever you hear you were meant to and now are you gonna react you're gonna help but you can intervene intercede what will you do differently now that you were exposed to the thing that you were exposed to by design and on purpose home asahi's a friend of me says that's what it means a matter yo amok is that somebody near you is hurting and it happened near you why so that you will intervene you will step in you will see so I think that's a good morrow means about the peroneus this really is rubbish wrong means not that the person in Yanam suffered from me it means that whatever I see I saw it and now I meant to ask myself how can I learn from it so every family and every individual needs to ask themselves and evaluate and calibrate that Fila they're learning their Hesed their priorities their values their shamira submit sauce and to put a blanket answer I just I don't know any woman is gonna cut her shape though because someone said that I don't know any person who's gonna start keeping Shabbos because somebody blamed the kid ishes I do think that if we talk to people about how to simplify our lives and consolidate how we spent more time with family how we've turns our homes into mini but they can se us and but they majeure rushes and how can we continue to do that even after this is over we should instead there was a beautiful article in a calm which was a letter from Hashem and it wasn't speaking in the voice of Hashem it was written as a letter from hush I'm saying my Kindle ah I'm entirely hidden you're doing a great job and you're persevering and this isn't an easy time the way I'm so proud about your stepping up for one another and I miss you and you miss me that touches me and speaks to me much more than the other version all right also I think the best message to give our kids is it's not Lama or not as why there's no point in that you know we're not gonna get answers it'sit's Lama what do we do what is this for what are we gonna do with it what could we now we try to accomplish together how can we connect more as a family what could we take on ourselves you know now moving forward as a family or individually work on our Meadows for Inspira so Omo work towards Chi voice there's there's so many messages and so many action items that we could do and that's really what this time now is about and that's way to answer them let's not talk about why why it's not gonna help let's talk about for what for what purpose let's try to now work out ourselves and do we can to be productive during this time I'll just say one more thing I heard dr. Alvey Michelle posed to a group of Rabbis it was a great question he said in ten years from now twenty five years whatever span or horizon you'll look back and say during that time I grew in this way blank fill it in I learned that safer my diving improved I stepped up the neck I said I simplified my life so instead of talking about why is this net buckling happening goes but who is punishing us and it's because we're terrible in this way in that way say the opposite in the future I will look back and say what did I gain how did I grow what did I learn about myself in what way did I advance my mission in this world it's such a positive formulation and it's a challenging situation and it charges people as opposed to you know deflating people knocking them down by blaming them for everything that's wrong well I would just think that so from what you're saying that um when it says Kadesh today she asked her to but it's it's really very individual and just like in kippers right because who already shade him it's not because of shade luck or because of Kadesh minutes everybody has to be mad if I prefer myself where we are honor it's as as individuals can you improve that sort of a message right nota person has a heart attack and they're in the hospital so you don't go and start telling them you know you had the heart attack because you're a threat and your stuff your face needs alone foods and you but the person himself comes down says you know I'm gonna start going for a walk every day and I'd be a little more careful about what I eat they themselves understand and learn from the experience of what they went through so you don't say you know Kadesh EASA too but they had the heart attack so that they would eat right and they had the heart attack as a consequence and results of things that needed to be improved and the person who looks at the things that happened walks away and says now I know I need to improve it but you don't have to necessarily connect the dots in that blaming way no I mean we see the Navi who criticize phyleus all were criticized right right the most part what about the by the way you know there's a there's a vert from the pond of my office on the ID Aeneid raha he said recesses are a pond I la hero so only a great addition s they could say this he says if you want Padre you want Ana as a hurry you could say how do you want to see my partner the only way to see that is lo a row in a moment of silence when you find when you close your eyes that's when you can see me which is interesting because isn't the coronavirus I mean all the quarantining all the social separation it isn't it almost like a moment of silence for the Bria like it's away we say reach that button a recent by the time to say like what can I do something I wished I could do that I hadn't had the opportunity to do before sort of following up on your theme I've seen that some maja am I saying it must be that much EF is coming Messiah has come and where she F is coming and I'm curious as the Makana has what do you think of that well if you look at our our history and many have recorded this and surveyed this we've had many faults mushy acts throughout history we've had many times we always have a false mushy if not when the stock markets at a high unemployment is that a low and everyone celebrating simplest we always have the false messiah syndrome when christ was going through a hard time you know shop tightly after the taqwa taught that come on it's key we always historically see the associations so it's only natural that yet again we're going through a hard time and we see what seems to be an aberration from from the normal way of life although if you look once a century this happened so it's only that we're fortunate enough that most of us are less than a hundred years old so it seems out of the ordinary for us but in the course of history it's not actually that exceptional so it's only natural that people want to draw conclusions again it's false promises unless we boenish alone the market game in your ear and whispered while you were asleep what's happening unless you looked into your your crystal ball and you can make a promise what good will come of that what what's going to be achieved you're gonna build up hope and then what have it crushed we don't do what we do because we we are anticipating the promise of mushiya from we do what we do because we're going to we're going to bring the ship whistle of a chicken ala chuhwa wonders in in how could one of the out one of the an imam means one of the ram bombs axioms of our faith is to believe my ships gonna come how can you say that chefs only going to come before a worthy so he writes the answer is that belief in messiah is essentially belief in the worthiness of the Jewish people of Quadro it's hope it's optimism its belief in our capacity so if you want to believe in anything don't believe in Messiah believe that we're going to bounce back we're going to come through like we did after every other tragedy in dark period we're going to come back stronger hell if I would speak to this not a political statement but the president keeps talking about the economy is gonna roar back and it's gonna come back as me bigger than ever and that's how we should be speaking about Claudia Sorrell about Rick Nielson about who we are and about the simcoe's we're gonna celebrate we're gonna reward back we're gonna come back and if one want wish you have to come it's gonna get be because we prove worthy to bring him you know I heard a story with Rob yankov when he was robbing Toronto a certain red became to Toronto and said mushiya who's coming Messiah is coming and there was a friar Aida lived in food Avenue came once a year he he was thorium Kippur Jew he came to a Bianchi of shell and he came to Iraq and he said I heard my chef is coming from the iron cube set he was all excited for yankin said well Shia has not coming he left his Rapids and sent him how did you say that them so she said doesn't keep Shabbos he doesn't keep conscious it's feeling like finished he believes in one thing that mashiach is coming soon coming like before pacer you want to take that away from him - I said no believe in that and don't believe him but she has not coming right so at some point children hear it in the hear it in doesn't happen and then from the contrary talks to Road the Emunah English yeah instead of being the cosmic the a moan it was his point a machine is not machine from that outside that's another religion who believes he comes as a saviour to redeem us we redeem ourselves and then he comes so the emphasis is on him coming and I don't have to relevant to the last question I don't have to change anything about myself I don't have to prove worthy I don't have to improve I don't have to chef must be coming it's the same thing don't put your faith you know put your faith in Hashem that is all coming from uh Shem and don't start getting lazy Oh Michelle's coming and this is the right is the timeframe we have to still be actively working on ourselves and so you're too famous behind him right yes oh cheese joy and shoul you speak what is tell me what is what is the secret of being a good Mahara a good parent uh and you want to inspire you so what's the secret to being a good Muhammad you take it I don't know that we have the secret I don't know that we're famous but I'll tell you what I've been inspired by I can't speak about ourselves as much be among others but I could pick to speak about those who've been been mushy on me or on us consistency consistency people who are authentic authentic genuine real Tohoku borough there's no pretense there's no stick there's no covered there's no saying one thing and doing another people and and I think we even see Baron Strucker play leymah initially and Nuka the Avena like mean evil I lethal ad versus right das see like Marilla chakra you teach to children that a lack of authenticity we can if you say you're gonna do something for your child do it 100% it's also the you know the Gemara learns from the post again my laughing Kim Allah has shown Sawako story of action we peel so that's to be already as mm Allah now can we live up to a mala I'm not a mile off everyone knows me knows not I'm not a mile off the de Buono show certainly knows I'm not a mile off but I think what it means is that we have to do have to be consistent we have to be genuine it has to be real and so I think it's it's so critically important for people not to see duplicity or hypocrisy or to see us preaching one thing and then and then living another or doing it for some ulterior motive like kavod or or something else people have to be have to be genuine the people have touched me most of the most genuine and I don't want to go to a controversial area but I'll say that one of the things that I see happening and maybe we're taking out from this whole episode is even among our Gedaliah stro are our great Robin and post Kim we see those who have emerged and they've they've risen to the top so to say that they're so authentic and genuine they feel the pulse of Chloe's role they're answering Shila psalm din burta michelle along with with a sense of sympathy and empathy and seriousness they understand that we're peacock nefesh comes in within the hierarchy of tone and tone of values the people I've seen who are who are less who are a little more quick quicker to clothes and loaves quicker to open and we're seem less concerned with understanding what's on the line the greater the time I welcome the more they're saying davon by yourself being Mac but on so I see that the greatness is is consistency greatness of the people who are who are authentic greatness of the people who are who are through and through and I think that there's no one who picks up on that there's no sharper instrument to determine can't anticipate than kids kids now it know it right away and it turns them off they walk away and it turns them on it makes them excited they want to emulate the people they think are the real deal so I think it's being the real deal religiously and it's being I've we found in Rob honest it's being the real deal in really caring about people which is an interesting thing it's a double-edged sword what makes you successful or good or relevant is that it's genuine you really really care it also makes you very vulnerable and it makes it very hard to come out of every funeral and to come out of every every Shiva visit and to be at the bedside of every terminally ill patient or a counsel every couple in crisis or to hear about every story and you internalized you generally care these are mesh pockets your family it's what makes you good and it's also what makes you very vulnerable to being hurt you know I I heard one satire it says that the first child called Conroy wishes mulashi inhaler he was Miss Hannah so the question is why is it the third generation why didn't a dumb name his children Hannah his child can i hmm interesting question every child needs to notice the first thing right right somebody told me a story once with Rob Laser tells his son came to him he said we had a baby and they came when the child was two months old they came running to him he said could you tell us how to be Mahon of him he said you child is how old now two months it's too late call me by the next one right so clearly cuz obviously something right away she said why did we wait for the third trial the next generation I saw somebody said attire II said because the Mauritian never had childhood years he never went through teenage crisis he was born but you do like how could I call my childhood I can't be Mahana you I never experienced it I can't be authentic about it I can't stand in your shoes I can't be sir I can't call you how much Wow that's guy in who lived the who lived through all those yet he says I could try to be Mahana I could be authentic that's a good mother but Rob is angry I'm just giving you just a bring a rioter no no that's great rush Rob says about Manoa Hamal I had to come speak to my the whole Voort Shimshon because you know you have to be if you want your son to be another you have to be in Nazir yeah I'd love to so you know they say the Voorhis and Krishna that we teach our children how be shifted from the day circle left about Derek so often we're balancing that we're teaching our children how to go on vacation how to act we leave the home this has been a very intense time of teaching our children by example of the shift of above a sofa right they see the way we're dialing and learning and are we patient and are we calm and now we're interacting and where our meadows are and and that's that's what they're learning from this who was it not Henry David Thoreau I forgot who it was who said I can't hear what you're saying your actions speak so loudly so so yeah so sometimes people that are our hypocrisy speaking so loudly they can't even hear the words that we're saying my kids are hearing everything and how we're conducting ourselves and what we're doing with their time and we're very there they're seeing us all day and night so we are definitely have to put that example out there for them I would ask you in closing share with us a favorite in our story where you saw something and it impacted you like the power of kind of somebody who did it well the fruits of kind of share with us a story yeah as a family we started a new gossip process what's that group you know the kids have their devices these days and they're you know in school we figure let's just lean productive with the screen time and which was one of the questions I think about how to utilize the screen time well that's not just kids constantly and which is it's an interesting other discussion about how to balance that but we would cited to a family what's that group where they just share lots of stories where they saw Shem in their lives and we were doing with our older kids and then one day our seven-year-old son got on its older sister's phone and go ahead gave his own story that was just the cutest little story about how he was able to get dressed quicker because something happened and that's how a man died Shem was in his life and he helped him and it was just showed that you know we're passing that day on that message of everything that's going on in life and everything that we engage in it's not us you know it's all really kind of from a Shemin when you start looking for the signs and you start you know finding those moments then you you really do see a Shem in your lives and that's a really important exercise right now especially so we're happy we started that before all this we're continuing on through this whole corona crisis and our kids are definitely understanding that you know Hashem is in their lives but it was just very sweet when our little 7 year olds hopped this and was able to kind of hold rock are you saying it was it's a kind of story because sometimes the most important a powerful Muharram are not the teachers in school what happened is because of that group and he saw his older sisters he has six older sisters who were sharing stories of where they saw Shem and their day and one of our daughters found out today no finals this year because of what's going on and left a long voice note but the hush cockle practiced and Hashem is in her life perfect so he saw his older sisters living their day looking for the story to tell about a Shem and at seven he did the same so the biggest makan comes sometimes are not the ones in the front of the classroom they're the ones that you don't even think of in that role it could be a sibling with just a couple years older I'll share one quick story our community tragically lost an amazing mechanicus this year a woman by the name of mrs. Danny gray shower the kernel of Raqqa she passed away and left this world way too young she was an extraordinary woman who actually suffered from a brain tumor for eight years not telling a soul she left this world she she she went to school every day she had chemo she shouldn't miss one day of teaching her children her students knew how devoted she was beyond anything and students spoke both through the process of her of her of her Lavanya and and so on lotion and the students the theme they all had was was seeing exactly how genuine she was how much that she she loved how devoted she was but it really struck me she did something I never heard a teacher do before she wrote different tests for different students in her same class teachers hate giving tests I am NOT a teacher in a formal school I recently gave this to me close cover Berkeley know that you're familiar with and I hated grading it and I hate giving a test I hate grading it's the reason I didn't go into that and teachers it's a hard thing she was so devoted to her students she knew she had stronger students are stronger in this way a weaker in this way she wrote different tests for different students in the same exact class so that it was tapered to each of their needs their strengths of who they were number two the students all shared something that jumped out at them that they had never experienced from another teacher she didn't write the grade on the cover sheet she wrote the grade on the inside page the second page of the test so that when the test was handed back was lying around when the said person next he saw he just be really it was it was unbelievable so these students all felt a loss as if it was their own aunt their own sister such a profound loss because she did for them what they had an experience from so many others the level of devotion are genuine she was and she went the extra mile she was selfless at her own personal cost of her time and her energy her effort and that's the legacy she leaves thank you very much for your time [Music] [Applause] [Music]