Controversy in the Holy City - Part 2

this torah class is brought to you by torahanytime.com okay good evening everyone let's continue this really uh interesting adventure about uh the subject of where the kiva yosef schlesinger's attempt to reinstate uh smikha in the uh to reinstate takaya shofar on shabbos in the holy city of yerushalayim and last night we learned 13 different arguments that rav schlesinger offered and uh how do the or the majority opinion how did they respond to his taina now the first tita yeah let me try to do that let me see if i could bring up the myrmicons thank you let's see if we could do this um share screen okay it's going to be very hard to read because the uh not bad not not terrible even better yeah a little larger not bad okay so again let's continue the first haina of rabbiki yosef schlesinger is that we know that a mitzvah arisa could push off in a sudden namely the example he brought with tsar balikayam by the way if anybody happens to be learning mission brew with us today's mission abra spoke about the issue to put a cup under an egg that was born on yamtif because it's mavato the cleave from being able to be used so therefore the um uh the rabbiquibios of schlesinger argued we know that sarba al-echaiyam would allow you to violate being mavato akhli me hanoi that being the case if a do-iraisa could push off a rabbana and why can't sheifer on shabbos push off so the argument against that is very clear that sarbalaichim is not a mitzvah it's not a mitzvah is an issue an israeli raisa not necessarily would it push off with rabban even though you can't what do you mean but a director could push off allah say yeah but sometimes by the way if you want to follow inside i'm in uh page three second column ice um base okay so the halacha that uh dairisa it could push off a dirabonan mashayinkin the assay of we have no precedent that could push off the drab on lest you come to carry next argument from kibios of schlesinger is that an assay of the rabbim could push off even a dairisa and i say of the rabbim even a dragon could push off even at arizona for example your ladder free in avid kanani you could free in avid kanani to make a minion because the it's a mitzvah of the robin and that could push off a drab on excuse me that could push off at the rise of him we know you're not allowed to work avadhim so the assay of the assay of uh making a minion which is only the rabbanon of arabim could push of the direction of him so therefore we should say it's kia shaifer which is a mitzvah of the rabim should also push off the lav of uh shema yavi renu if it should even be able to push off a dair isa so rebbi mikhail tikachinsky said the way we address that interestingly is that the issue of idu is not a real dairisa it's only an asmrta de rabbanon and not an assay gemura now i would say well still but that means a uh the rabbanon of the rabbim could push off so why can't the day rise that kia shahifar push off the drab of shamiyah i personally would add in the sugiya of freeing the avid kanani and violating i believe the iran over there says an interesting thing the what's the issue of freeing in avid kanani it comes from you can't give a guy a gift for nothing but where you stand to gain you're not giving it to them for nothing so i would say the reason why you could free your evan kanani in violation is because there's no israel iran says over there because it's derived from like such a name and when you're gaining something there's no israel at all so in my humble opinion that's not a good precedent next in australia he says something i'm not percent clear he says that if you're at all in doubt whether the rabbanon extended their zero to a certain case and to be mavata a director you should not apply it if you're music if they said they're din there so the um says no that is not correct that's not what it means what it means is not don't apply the abundant if you're not sure if it applies but rather if they said to be okay that's only when there's a vaday issa drab on and now when there's a mahloikis weather there's an ester drab but if there is an israel let's say of rabbah which definitely applies then it would apply even to the oykar dharmanathara now here's the next argument that which the ran and the tory evan rely on the fact that you remember the ron and the tory evans said well this is different than lula now honestly i'm not really clear about that question but there wasn't a distinction made between lulav and shaifar in that we had an easier time being mavata lulav because you could always take it on a different day masha inc don't want to be mad for me how could the rabbana be for completely so that was that was the question of the of the ran and based on that that was the argument of the round and based on that argument that the hammond don't want to be okay the shofar rev want them to say that we should rely on the riff that you could blow bazman azad and shabbos so so they the khak you can't have your cake and eat it you want to rely on the roofer you want to rely on iran the rift is the one who says that it applies bismarck but if you want to rely on the run the round doesn't hold like the riff the round number said you're allowed to blow shayfar even on a basin that doesn't have smicha so you want to rely on the iran's argument that how could the and therefore they left the situation where you could be oaker the sheifer but the iran doesn't hold like the rift that you're allowed to blow the shaifar the round does not hold like the rift that you're allowed to blow the shofar if you don't have a besden of smoochim furthermore says are not being ok for entirely you know why because there's a rule there's always next year so you blow next year and i blowed last year the kahama are not going to be okay the whole concept of shayfa but on if on a year where roshana comes in on shabbos maybe they will be oaker that you blow the shot for even on shabbos so if there's a fairish russia that you blow it even on shabbos can't be so the response to that is the shar hamelech that says there's a jerosha that you blow the shaffer even on shabbos that's only rabbi sai that's only fits in according to rebelezer who holds mahshire mitzvahs durkheis but according to the other tanoayam that makshire mitsuma are not then we don't have this drasha okay furthermore do you remember rabbi yosuf salazar wanted to say that even the rambam would agree to the rift that you don't need a besden of smuchem because the rambam he argued how old you only need the top than that's possible however a besden even if it doesn't have smikha but if bisman is that it's the best person you have namely let's say in the time when there was no smith the rambam would agree to the rift that you could use that kind of besden and blow the shaifar so um feel that that's very incorrect none of the poison uh grip the rambam in that fashion moving right along argument huss he wanted to say that the same way that a towel of a robin could be used by the rabbin because they will remind each other so too why don't we say that since the shaifer is being blown by the rabbim there's no zera they're abundant because they'll remind each other so first of all says that that svara that 10 people could use one towel does not hold true in the moscone of the gemara but furthermore that's by definition a faulty argument because if it was true then rabba never would have been able to make zero of the movato shoiferon shabbos because what do you mean shama yavi reno but it's a robin and they'll remind each other so clearly rabbit didn't care about that svara furthermore do you remember that he argued that bismarck we don't have a rishis harab we don't have a big thorough flare so the argued back so then why does the mishnah say that when the bastish was destroyed they were masaki no only to blow in desden and not anywhere else but there were no more russia's harabs so clearly if they said when the temple is destroyed when there are no more rishis harabins you still can't blow on shabbos so that means they held like this that the original gezero was made in a time that there were russia's harabam's and once the zero was made for them then the zero applies everywhere even even in a carmelus i mean let's say guys in quarantine and uh let's say for example um i can't say who but there's a certain yeshiva that i know that a lot of children go to that was closed down yesterday and their parents are going up the wall what do you do with the kids all day at aravyamtiv i'm not saying who when where i cannot reveal and not only that the department of health calls the parents on the hour how was your kid exposed where was your kid exposed and then they tell you where the kid was exposed and then they tell you and they call the grandparents in brooklyn about the kids and they have a whole list of indiscriminate questions and now you know okay but be it as in a let's say someone's in quarantine i have a new thing inertia straw they're in quarantine so they should blow shore french habits because there's no xerox show me abraham because the the mossad is gonna i don't know what to them can i ask you i don't understand this whole that inherits this world the time when the basal big dish was kion the right possible was just a robin that i can think of i mean you had villages you had courtroom it was in an economy that was uh full of agronomy right i mean it was it was all um farms basically the only place might have been usually other than that when could they possibly have had a recession i mean even then i don't think uh why were they worried so apparently once rabbah made xera about a possible case of isha sarabham that gizero applies even a nurse to say and even in a karmalis and and uh says that it would apply a new shallam even when the gates are locked because once the rabbis made xera they made it because of the sarabin but it extended to all times and to all areas furthermore you want to say well just you know to make things better this is an ice your aleph will make a bed of 23. says 23 help 23 is the malevolent murdered if you need a bezel that has michael then then you need them to have smith you could have 200 guys and they could allow no shots and play skim they're not cred it's not a credible sound sanhedrin if you don't need smith then what does 23 do furthermore if you remember because of the plight of russian jewry his argument was okay so if it's not blowing the shot for us or it's like we're blowing khashog's royce to alarm the people to pray but the question is you're not going to block outside son of because of exercise finally toward the end the kiva yosef schlesinger says he wanted to argue the whole gazero is you might come to carry the shoifer after you use it so we'll put it under we'll refund the police and we'll make police then to guard the shauffer that nobody carries it well he says we know there's one thing when it comes to the xeros of the rabbanon and that is la nitin leshiuren the hachem okay we're worried that if you dance you might make a musical instrument yeah but let's say a guy says uh look i i will make a musical instrument i'm a clumsy guy so i so that guy could clap his hands when they make zero they make a blanket gazera so it's not going to help if you appoint shoitrim and guard the shoifer so that nobody carries the shofar and finally the final argument of rabbi yes and goes look who gets the issue for blowing the shaipha the listeners no not the listeners the blower so the blower gets is but everyone else is mikayama mitsudai raisa so isn't there a principle it's preferable for someone to do a small aveira to be mazaka others in a big mitzvah so let the i'll be the guy i'll blow the shauffer i'll violated rabban and then they'll all get a director why don't we say he says number one la mesa the guy so i would argue if that's the case then that defeats the hogzei of rabbah then uh what's rabbis gazer i have one guy blow the surfer for everyone else and he'll take it on the chin for everybody else that's what he says to him cain here let me read that inside he says is it a mitzvah of era now by the way maybe tomorrow i'll give a little clip there's a macho kiss i believe rabbi kevin others according to rabbah that you're not a blow shauper because xero shami have rendered let's say you did blow the shauffer are you say the mitzvah or the were they oyker the kim now by the way this whole argument of a kibios of schlesinger is assuming you get the myth if you wouldn't get the mitzvah then there wouldn't be no point in telling him blow the shafter for everybody else now so number one this is oyker the whole din of rabbah but number two la maisa this guy has an asura so he's now to do it but he argues further that incorporated in the gezera of not blowing is also not telling someone else to blow for you that's part of the xera so in fact those who commissioned someone to blow the shaifar now by the way that might be part of what rabshmo salant supposedly said he said if rabikiva yosef schlesinger was blowing the shofar would go ahead and listen to it behind the wall now he meaning i would never ask him to maybe maybe i would be violating this hijab but if i would know he's doing it anyway then i would go to listen maybe i could make an appearance because that would that would lend my support and maybe then he would also be incorporating this to drab on but at the very least um at the very least rabbi sai this was what was the counter response from kibayos of schlesinger and it's uh quite amazing that i do not think that after his attempt or maybe his possible blowing in that fateful year that it was ever blown again on shabbos but hashem there will be a time when rosh hashanah comes out on shabbos that we will blow the shaifar i would assume that when meshiach comes and the reinstated so according to even the rambam you'll be able to blow shayfar in yerushalayim and for sure in the miktash we won't be guys or shamayavirano so hopefully hashem i guess if meshiach comes tonight or tomorrow then we will hear the show for the shabbos but either way we hope to hear the tikka bishophar goddall so this was the story and the interesting uh controversy and i want to take the opportunity to wish everyone a xivoxi motiva and a good bench jar thanks for joining [Music] looking forward to a what fresh year you've just experienced another torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com