Why is Chabad so successful?

Hey guys, welcome to the 10th episode of Clappy and Frank. Tonight we we have a special guest. We have with us tonight Rabbi David Elzri, world famous to Yor Belinda, California. He's a in California for over 50 years. >> Oh sh total 50 years in California. Some 40. >> Uhhuh. Over 50 years on and over 40 years in Yor Belinda, California. >> Yes. In Orange County, California. >> How I really got to know Rabbi David Yazri. never met him in person until tonight. How I really got to know him is through his writing. His books are extremely famous. This book, his first book called The Secret of Kabads, got the National Jewish Book Award runner up a couple years ago. This book is a major bestseller inside the world's most successful Jewish movement, Kabad Labavich, which we're right now in the middle of the Kabad conference. There's right now over 6,000 Kabad Labavich emissaries from around the world here in New York. and Rabzi gave him his precious time to come on our show. So, it's a tremendous honor to have somebody of such high caliber to come on our podcast. So, yeah, we have some just jump right into it. Obviously, your book over here. Someone um mentioned to me on Friday, they said they think Kabad should be ran commercially like a franchise. That means you map out the area and people pay royalty fees. And this way it's just very commercialized and removes a lot of the politics. What's your opinion on that? >> First thing I think it pulls the guts out of who we are. We are not you whenever you have a group of people there's going to be sometimes difference of opinion. To be very honest I know a lot of the major Jewish organizations in this country and I think we're much more healthy than most of them. They don't know what their mission is. You know there's a joke that that that there's many Jewish organizations that are looking for a mission and we're a mission looking for organization. [laughter] So I I think that the strength of Kabad is the model of entrepreneurship that the Reb established which really goes back historically much even further because in the early in around 1912 1913 the Rebab the fifth Reb sent a group of yeshiva students to in Israel to Hebron to establish yeshiva and the previous rebrea writes a letter to them and he lays out really a vision of management. He says we send people to places we expect them to act on their own to be responsible and basically to be entrepreneurs. Kabad is a model of entrepreneurship where you take resp you take it's not a franchise means I'm buying something that's it's a model of spiritual entrepreneurship that you take responsibility for everything going on in that place and it's by you have to either make it or break it and because of that that's its greatest strength and you know what as any place else there's going to be some kinds differences of opinion and problems and we have a tendency to talk about that the where the challenges are when really there's a lot more good going on so you want to you can focus on those types of things or you can look around at the bigger picture and I and I see the Jewish world intimately. Everybody in the Jewish world today is looking over the shoulder and they're saying, "Wow, how are you guys doing so well when we're struggling so much?" >> Rabbi Elazar, the book Undaunted is about the Reb's father-in-law, the sixth kaba >> who had the most difficult time, probably the most difficult time in the three-year in the 300 year history. The Holocaust happened under his reign. 19 He was he passed away in 1950. He was born in he was born in 1880. The Boleviks, a Stalin, a Lenin, Judaism being shut down in communist Russia where he lived, chased out of went to Latvia, all of the places you mentioned in the book, hardship non-stop. And this book talks about his miserious neffesh about keeping Judaism alive in the world and even in his last 10 years keeping Judaism alive in America and strengthening it and making it larger. Interestingly, so it's all about hardship. The book that you wrote that was a major bestseller, Secret of Kabad, talks about Kabad's amazing success throughout the world. But interestingly, I caught that you start the book talking about probably the most tragic kabad event that ever happened in the last 50 years with Gabi and Rifky Holtzburg were killed for being Jewish and they were murdered by Islamic terrorism in Mumbai, India with other people that were in the Kabad house. A terrible it's like everybody knows where they were when it happened and there was actually a couple of day story where there were hostages in the building and the Israeli government trying to get involved, the American government. you mention and you you elaborate on it very much and then a few hundred pages and then you end off the story with their funeral everything that happened the leadup to the funeral and how it was done. So we're seeing in the world of labavage today there's a lot of like donuts and kanaka lightings but there's actually real miseras neafes today being onus even in the 2000s so there's a lot of connection between the books >> I think there's a connection but I I I reason I started the first book with the story of Gabi and Rifki was I think it framed the central question of the book which is why would these two young people pick up their pel you know the night after Gabi was killed a very prominent literature guy from the yeshiva world calls me up and he says to me David Penny Lifchitz the editor of Yatnaman of all people and he calls me up he says David tell me about Gabi and I said to him he's a baky and shas he completed all of the Talmud he says to me why did he go to India if he knows the Talmud from one end to another I said penny pin that's the whole reason he went I felt that that story framed the central question of the book why are people willing to dedicate their lives and put them on line. Also, for me, it was very personal cuz I was on the crisis management team that dealt with that disaster. I was on the phone with the people on the front lines. I was on the phone with the terrorist. So, I had a very unique there was a group of us. >> You're a hostage negotiator by train. >> We No, I was not. Rabbi Leash in Washington had got hold of had Gabby's number called it up and was answered by the terrorists. We put out a notice that we need somebody who can speak to Udu. Udu some language I don't understand. We found the guy and we started talking to the terrorists and I was on those calls monitoring. I wasn't the I wasn't the the spokesman but I was part of that process because there was we had pulled together a crisis management team Rabbi Matis Alex and myself and a few others to deal with this issue. I mean we were dealing with the security services. I had been informed by the Israeli secret service that a group of soldiers were were on a plane ready to go to to release free them but the Indian government would let them in. So first thing I experienced this story in a kind of intimate way that most labavatures did not. >> It happened during the connection. It happened right after the con. >> Yeah. It happened over Thanksgiving weekend. So I had this kind of real, you know, playbyplay, moment by moment, you know, the CNN reporter would get off the would get off the broadcast and then I'd speak to her what's going on. We had a in another city. I forgot the name of the city he was. I said, "Get on a plane. I need a guy in the front line. I need a guy there as an observer. What's going on?" So we to the best of our ability when the FBI I was not in Labavage headquarters. I was in California. When the FBI turned up in Labavage headquarters in Brooklyn, they were blown away because we were really on top of the situation even though we hadn't really prepared for it. So, because I was involved in the crisis management team and I lived through the experience and I'll never forget when they finally I found the moment that that they died, I just sat by the computer and I cried. And I called up my friend Dennis Prager and I said screamed at him, Dennis, they killed him. They killed them. They killed him. So, it was very personal to me, but at the same time, I felt it asked the and originally I wrote the chapter I wasn't going to put in the book. And then I realized it's really the main question. Why? Why are willing people willing to give up friends community you know I've been in Brooklyn for shabas I went to a shul there's all kinds of people interesting conversations you know the the food is flowing the laims are coming it's really there's a warmth of community which is very remarkable which I don't have I have one wonderful people in my community but it's a community that I had to create a community of peers it isn't we give up a lot I had a conversation last week I was in Jerusalem and I met the schlookham from a town called Zaparosa his name was Aaron Reich if I'm correct and I have dealt with him. Zaparov is 20 mi from the border of in Ukraine, 20 mi from Russia and 50 mi south of Denpo which is a big city and I asked his wife how things are. She says terrible. They're bombing us every day. Okay, we thank God in Southern California I got to worry about traffic. I may have to raise a few dollars, you know, I got to worry if I can, you know, if I can get if I can go to LA and have a nice, you know, kosher meal. These people are being shelled every day. There's people putting their lives in the line in many different ways. So the story of Gabby and Rifki and I have a granddaughter who's named after Rifka is really the question about why are we willing to do this and why is the guy who mastered the Talmud he's the one who went to India. Uh Rav Elazar you deal a lot with um federation organization organizations like that. What is the and how do you what is and how do you explain the kabad view on Zionism because it seems a little tricky. It's like we come to their events. We don't hear any no Israeli flag but their support of Israel. They're around. They're sort of involved. They're not involved. Could you explain the official stance? >> Well, I I'm not an official stance like I struggle with this issue. Okay. >> And I think it's something which has to be understood but you need a little historical context. In the early 1880s, there was an organization established in Russia called Beluja, the house of Jacob, go out. It was an early Zionist organization to to begin the process of having Jews immigrate to make aliyah to Israel. This is early 1880s. They came to the fourth rabb. And they said, "Will you join us?" And he says, "Well, the end of that puss, the end of that verse in the Torah is in the light of God." He says, "Add it and I'll join you." And they said, "Forget it." What was the debate? They wanted to create the new Jew based on secular nationalism which is devoid of spiritual values. So at that point Zionism which becomes an aspiration for freedom and opportunity and sovereignty and and traditional Judaism come in clash because the question is what are the foundations of Jewish identity? So Kabad's position was opposed to Zionism in particular because of this issue of secular nationalism. But the real interesting question is what happens in 1947 and 1948. the states established. Now, okay, you could theorize to Zionism and my father-in-law, for instance, he was in the gun. He was imprisoned by the British, but you can you can say it's good, it's bad, maybe maybe there's a value to it. But now you have a country. How are you going to relate to that country? And there were three responses within the Orthodox world to the establishment of the state. On one side you had the response of the litfisher Lithuanian Shiva world championed by probably the most important rel uh leader at that time in that community who's known as the Kazunish who basically said you know what every one of them had had a brother or a sister or a cousin would become non-religious and they said Zionism is challenging the core values of our identity the states established we want to create a society within a society that's separate we'll send our boys to study we really don't want to serve in the army and we're going create political parties to protect our interests. On the other side is a religious. They said they said they were they said this is the beginning of of redemption which is the first the beginning of redemption. They saw the miracles in 1948. There were miracles. You can't deny that. >> And they said we want to be part of the society. We're going to try to infuse Judaism in. And to be very honest, in this last war on October 7th, they're the segment of the of the Israeli society that paid the biggest price, the greatest amount of soldiers per capita that have lost their lives in defense of Israel in this terrible in the war for the last two years has been from the religious Zionist world, the dati world. Then comes Kabad in the middle and Kabad is still struggling with this idea of secular nationalism. At the same time, it doesn't agree with >> ambassadors, prime ministers all communicated with the Reb throughout the years. >> Right. But we let but we need to understand the nuance before and that's the next piece >> that's trying to set the picture >> right there is all theime all the prime ministers did and the presidents and everybody all these guys did but what happens is the previous rabbi tells his something a few different number one we is that the attitude is when they come to tell him to establish the kabad town in Israel which they wanted to make in the north in Maron in they say in the Yiddish out in the boondocks which is a small town with a burial site of one of the great sages of Judaism He says, "No, I don't want to live. I don't want my town there. I don't want my there. I want them not next to oron, which are these mystical places of spirituality. I want them next to Tel Aviv because I want to impact the society." So the Kaz wants to separate. He wants to impact. He wants to be transformational. Number two, he tells everybody you need to work. Number three, he says you should serve in the army. And number four, he says we're not going to create a political party. >> So who said to serve in the freedom said to serve in the army? >> Yes, he did. For which people in kabad regular >> the majority of abomishers don't serve in the army? >> Excuse me. The majority of there is in Israel today has an official arrangement with the army. It was it was neutralized by the recent Supreme Court re ruling but theidim who asked the reb with the establishment of the state. He said everybody has to share in the defense of the country. And the philosophy of Kabad was not the army was in anthma. The philosophy was there was an agreement with the with the Israeli government where you boys would sit and study yeshiva. First, it was informal. It became formal for the last 20 years. They come to New York. They study here. They get married a little bit older. They go to Kyle for a year, then they go into the army. It wasn't going into 18. It was going in, it was a compromise. In other words, we're not against it in principle. The question is how to fit that within the structure of education. We want our young men to develop their identity as we want them to sit and learn Torah. Afterwards, we're not against going to the army. It was a compromised position. It's a radically different position than the rest of the world that says we want nothing to do with you. So Kabad says we're not willing to accept Zionism as the beginning of redemption, but we want to be part of this society. >> What percent actually do something serve? What percent of Kabad people today? >> All I know is we've lost probably about a dozen Kabad soldiers. I don't know the number. >> Hold on. I don't interrupting. A few days ago, there was a rally of like maybe a million kared protesting the Israeli government now really coming down hard on drafting 18-year-olds in yeshiva or not in yeshiva. And all the labam signed that everybody should go. >> What did the Yeah, that's you're 100% correct. But what did they write in that letter? They the the bestd rabbitical uh uh rabbitical court in Israel issued a letter to support the rally. But in that letter, they wrote simply, even though we're supporting the rally, we agree in principle that Yeshiva Baham should go that our people should go to the army after they finished their time in yeshiva. So, we're supporting the rally because the Supreme Court has been so extreme in their positions where there could be points of compromise like Kabad had a compromise agreement with the army for the last 20 years. So, Kabad said, "We support, we believe in principle that at the right time they should go to the army. We also do not like what the Supreme Court is doing arbitrarily to draft every single person. So they took this position. Yes. But which is radically different than the rest of the world. But there's something much deeper here. The the most of the literature world and the Kedi world in Israel the what they call the traditional orthodox sometimes used term ultra orthodox. I think it's a degrading term. They're saying we want a separate life from modern Israeli society. Kabad is saying we want to go side by we're going to hold on to our principles but we're not going to disassociate ourselves from the rest of the society. We're members of the society. I I I'm still uncomfortable with ideas of secular nationalism. I don't think that this is the beginning of the redemption of the Jewish people but we want to support the society. So we we're accepting Israel but we're setting it with a caveat. So while let's say you know certain things may may have an overtone of replacement ideology from Torah that we're rejecting what we're not accepting is the idea of the world which is to say nothing to do with you and we're not accepting the idea of the religious Zionist world which is saying this is the beginning of the redemption. We have a nuanced position in the middle and it's not an easy road to hoe because and I sit on the board of the ultimate Zionist organization in America in the world which is the Jewish Agency for Israel and these are issues that I have to navigate because and I'm very I'm always very honest about our positions but I'll ask I'll add one more caveat and this is what's intriguing. The Jewish Federations of North America just did a study about American jury since October 7th. And in that study, it says that 32% of Jews who go to reformed temples consider themselves Zionists, 55% of Jews who go to conservative, 65% who go to Orthodox, and 82% of Jews who go to Kabad. Now, I was at a meeting of American Jewish leaders two months ago when this study was unveiled in front of 10, 15 people representing the most important Jewish organizations in the country. And I turned to them and I said, 'Listen guys, these are people that I know very well. We have our theological and ideological differences, but they're good friends. And I said, 'What's the difference between us and you? I said, 'We struggle with the idea of secular nationalism replacing Jewish identity. So we have an issue with Zionism. I'm very open with them. On the other side, you're talking about Herzel. You're talking about Balffor, you're talking about Bengorian, we're talking about the Torah's instructions of Brisben and Visorim, the covenant between God and and Abraham where the land of Israel is giving to the Jewish people. We're telling our people that Erat Israel, the land of Israel, is a central pillar of Jewish identity and intrinsic to our foundational belief system. You're saying it's part of the political system. So therefore, you guys are getting numbers like you're getting and we're creating we are today the incubator of support for Eric Israel for Israel even though we have certain things that we hold back about about modern Israeli society. So we want to be part of it but we have our values and to walk that fine line is as my one of my friends in in in Israel says to me one of the prominent Kabad Raban he says to me like this we're in the gray and that's the hardest place to be. Rabel Yzri, after the October 7th massacres, terrible atrocities that happened, the worst the hol the worst things that happened since the Holocaust, many Kabad rabbis around the world were involved in humanitarian missions going to Israel. And I know that you were at the forefront arranging humanitarian missions terra that had a tremendous effect on the morale of the Israeli soldiers on the families. Could you tell us a little bit about those missions? >> Well, what happened I got I right when the war broke out, I felt we had to do something. So I spoke to two of my good friends, Rabbi Yitlak Wolf in Chicago and Rabbi Yasi Biston in Florida. I said, we got to go do something. So we decided we're going to Israel. So we put out a notice that we're making a mission to Israel. Two weeks >> you were able to get flights. >> We unlookim. And the truth of the matter is I could have probably got 270 if I wanted to. You could only manage so much. But I want to tell you about the first thing we did which I think was one of the most painful and touching moments in my life. I had come in before Shabas. They arrived on Monday. I had come in Thursday because I needed to prepare for the group and do some of the planning with Kabad in Israel and actually went to see my granddaughter who was up in seminary in the north. >> Who who gave you the idea? It was all on your own. >> It was together we decided let's do it. I had done before when there was a war in Israel. I had taken people to Israel to show support and identification, but we got to do something. And then I heard the other guys say, "We got to do something." So instead of thinking and talking, you do things. You know what I mean? There's people in this world that talk and sometimes you just do. So we're going to go. And then I had a problem. I called up the council general in Los Angeles, Hill Num. And I said, "Hill, I need you to get me into Israel." He says, "It's co." He said, "No, no, that wasn't co. I'm sorry. It was a different time went to Israel. I had to call him. He couldn't get us in. I got somebody else." So I said, "We got to go." So anyway, we start planning the trip and guys are going to go from New York and they're going to go from LA. They're going to go from Miami all in LA. I came in early and I went up to the seminary in the north where my granddaughter was and some of the kids had already left and I went into the seminary. I spent the whole Shabas there and I said, "Girls, you can't leave. Jets are flying overhead. They're bombing Lebanon. We're in the thing." I said, "Girls, the Reb always said that Israel is the safest place for the Jewish people. You cannot leave this country. You're going to tell your grandchildren that you were here during the time of war." All I know is a head of the seminary called my daughter who was one of her students that said your father saved my school. But on Monday the group arrived and we went the first place we went to was was a kibbutz I think it name was shuim. It's an old mapai. Mapai is the old labor party kibbutz in the middle of Israel. It's wellendowed. It's got beautiful lawns. It's secular. It's like the old leftist you know labor party bastion. It's still left over. There's like four places like this little country. And one of the places that had been hit hard was Kar Aza which was a Mapai kibbutz a labor party kibbutz that was established in the early 1950s and many of them had lost their lives. And those people were brought to this kibbutz in central Israel. And we come in 27 guys and they're all sitting shiva on this gigantic lawn and there's plastic ta there's plastic chairs and there's 10 people sitting around and there's plastic chairs and 10 people sitting around and there's like 10 15 families maybe 20 families sitting Shiva. They had all lost their loved ones in October 7th attack. They finally buried them. They're sitting Shiva and we come in this kidic army. I mean, there couldn't be a greater dichotomy in ideology, in philos philosophy, in and in and politics than the differences between us and the labor Zionists from the 1950s, the last bastion of old labor Zionism. But that day, we sat and cried with them and we were one people. And that moment that we sat with those people who lost their brothers and their sisters and their mothers, we said, "We came from America to be with you." It was a transformational moment in my life >> after the terrible atrocity that happened in Kabad in 1955 in the village that the freed built and that started the yeshiv and the mist and the was it debate say for they came >> yeah there was a vocational school they >> vocational school they came during my with machine guns terrorists and they killed a few of the bakim >> and one of the teachers if I'm correct >> there was five people were killed >> four and they actually named a school afterwards called yakamish means the the hand of five named after that >> and the did the exact same thing the said the sent a group of Bakim 10 Bakim Rab Krinsky was one of them, >> right? 11 or 12 Bakram total >> to to go down to and go around and give to everybody. So you your Mish did the exact same thing. >> Well, yeah. And but we did it, you know, we look to the history of the past, >> but they stayed for a year. >> They didn't stay. >> No, no, they only stayed. They stayed for less than 30 days. >> No, a few weeks. >> Oh, who are the ones that moved there? >> No, no, they What's >> No, lame and lame. >> That was later. We're talking about 1956. >> 55 or 56. And so Rabbi Kinsky, Rabbi, there was a rabbi, there was a Rabbi Shtov, there was Rabbi Adelman, there was Rabb Pner, there was very many became very distinguished and and Schlukim and prominent people in the Kabad community in the years to come that in in a sense we instinctively felt something you know the teachings of the Reb have been ingrained into the very core of our identity and aid is supposed to react extinct instinctively in a way how would what would the Reb want him to do? That's what I felt we needed to do at the moment and we did it and I think that it was and we had wonderful cooperation from Kabad in Israel and um this is before the ground war began. So it that that hadn't yet happened and the other thing that we did is every one of these brought a lot of money. We gave I myself brought 50 $60,000 I put together in two three days you have 27 guys some guys brought $100,000 some guy 50 we spread that money out between kabad institutions and other institutions and families in need. We put a big barbecue for a bunch of a big army base that were that were about to go into battle. We came there to say we're standing with Israeli TV covered us. We had a a a a prayer service at the at the at the ktle at the western wall with the chief rabbi Israel. >> My brother my brother made a joke. They were putting pictures on C. The stakes were so thick. He said the guys are not going to be able to go into battle. >> Yeah. But you know what you need? Soldiers are going to go into battle. If you come and you tell them you're doing something fantastic and we're bringing you a big stake, they're going to they're going to have much more motivation. They're not just defending the Jews of Israel. They're standing up for every Jew in the world. >> Your your specialty are you known for dealing with the Federation? What is the official I would say political stance of the federation as it it comes to and orthodox Judaism? What should someone's approach someone who's in the city? What did they expect or not expect from the federation versus let's say the reform conservative? >> Well, the different the difference is very simple. The reform and conservative movements and we're finding an interesting change within those movements also. They have they're rooted in in a very distinctive religious philosophy and uh the reform have their belief system the conservative have another and in certain ways they're merging a little closer together and the reconstructionists are out there and they're also a small group also which are probably closer to reform. The Federation system was created as a way to unify all of the Jewish community for common good. Let's raise money for the Jews of Ukraine. Let's raise money for the Jews of Israel. Interestingly enough, in all of the years of the Reb's leadership, he never gave an endorsement to any outside organization for fundraising except for U.J. in New York. It was the only thing he did. Now, >> do you know why U.J. of New York he gave an endorsement. >> He Well, they asked him for it, but he felt that there were they were doing important work. You have to ask him what his motivation. I'm not going to tell you why. I know the Reb did things but at the same time the federations have done many wonderful things with their resources. They've been good partners with us in particular in Ukraine and >> because our last guest said that the fed one of the federation members in Iowa offered them x amount of money to move out. So >> yeah but they're not see the federations are local federations operate in two levels. Each one is reflective of the local community. So the politics of the Jewish Federation in De Moines is radically different than the one in Miami. And the one in Chicago is different than the one in San Diego. It's made up of local people. Who are the activists? Who are the donors? Who are the movers and shakers? What is the politics between them? Who's the executive director? My point has been that I don't think we should operate in a silo. And if we have the ability to influence their agenda to encourage them to support institutions that are based alpra according to Jewish tradition more importantly to partner with institutions of kabad beyond that and we can influence their their their their approach to things then we have a responsibility even if we're not benefiting directly financially to do so now we are benefiting a certain way like for instance birthright we're very prominent in birthright money comes from federations there's many money that trickles down to our institutions from their system and funding is both local and national. In other words, it could be the Federation St. Louis supports Kaban on campus in St. Louis. It might or might not. And it could be they support our day school in San Diego. And it could be they support, you know, our our friendship circle in in Boston. >> It's very localized. >> It's very localized. Now, they take a certain percentage of their money and they send it up on the national level. Turns to be, for instance, the national chair today of Rebuild Israel, which is going to put the focus on what to do to get Israel back on its feet, is a major kabad supporter. Now how that will affect the trickle down effect on our institutions in Israel is a secondary question. But the but the fact is we can either operate in a silo and have nothing to do with these people or we can try to encourage them and influence them to work in a better way. It turns out that the leadership today everybody they all they're the ones who publicized the study that the primary point of contact for Jews reconnecting since October 7th is Kabad. In other words, there was a time we came along when I went into Schlickus. They thought we dropped out of a UFO. I'm not joking. Or we were probably, you know, you had Fiddler on the Roof if I was a rich man. So now Tuvia is now your local guy, you know. So instead of watching the show on Broadway, you got a quote >> local show. >> Local show. And if this guy is going to have any success in the American Jewish community, chances are slim to none. Now everybody and especially also in the religious movements, the reform and conservative movements, they all know that [clears throat] we're the biggest success story in in modern Jewish life. And they all know that down the block from a reform and conservative temple, there's a very successful kabad center. And half the members of the temple are also going to kabad for JLI, which is fantastic, or maybe the kids are going to seat teens. Whatever it is, it's a tremendous amount of involve the game has changed. You know, it's like you start a little business and everybody says you're not going to succeed. Well, guess what? Today we are the largest Jewish organization in the world and when I walk into a meeting that's what I say and they all know it and they all know we're successful and they don't deny it >> and they don't not only that they're wondering what they can learn from it >> and sometimes they think it's about the messenger we're nice people and we're sweet and we're good and kind and I tell them it's not just the messenger it's the message it's the message >> wouldn't you say that reformed conservative they're not grown up they don't they're not raised the goal is not to be a rabbi it's not like oh you need to be they want to ism to a lawyer, doctor, tech entrepreneur. So, however, regard to I think Dennis Burgerer mentioned this >> that we get the best and the brightest often being the rabbis. So, we're we're almost naturally more qualified. >> Well, I'll tell you what it is. The people today who are becoming rabbis in the liberal movements are very different than were 40 50 years ago. 40 50 years ago, they were coming out of they were many of them came from observant homes and they were rebelling against it. um for the la until co I would go speak every year to the graduating class of the conservative revical school in California. So for a few years I got up there and gave a speech about kaban blah blah blah and we're all doing all these different things and then I said I'm wasting my time. So I I came in there and I I said I I would walk in the room and I would say listen I want to ask you I want to ask you one question and tell you two things. Question number one, what percentage of you here and they're all different [clears throat] ages by the way. They're not like 19 20 21 years old or that fresh finished they finished four years of college and now they're going to graduate school. Some of them are older. I said, "How many of you have had some contact with Kabad in your evolution to decide to become a conservative rabbi?" There are 18 students, usually 18 20 students in the class. So about 80% raised their hand. I said, "Okay." I said, "Now I want to tell you two more things. Number one, down the block from your your your temple that you're going to become the rabbi is going to be a kabad center. Number two, I don't believe in pluralism. In other words, I believe God gave one version of the book on Mount Si. He didn't give three." Okay. Now that I've laid out the theological differences and you know we're down the block from you, let's have a conversation. But these are people that are usually searching for something and they fell into this theology, this more liberal Jewish kind of philosophy. They're also more open to the message we have. So we're finding a very different attitude in reform and conservative rabbis today than we had, let's say, a generation ago. They're very different. In Kabamad, we're instilling in our children from the very beginning the sense of responsibility for the Jewish people and that we have to go do something about it's a sense of mission. Now, there is it's not that I grow up and I have a sense of identity. Instead of being a doctor or a lawyer or an architect or a candlestick maker, I'm going to become a rabbi. No, we're telling our kids, what's the most noblest thing you can do with your life? You can be a an emissary of the Reb. You can dedicate your life for the welfare of the Jewish people. You can bring Messiah. You could be you can change the world. You can educate. You can inspire and you yourself will become inspired and a better person. We're telling that to our kids this so the the way that the place they're coming but we're coming with a our kids are coming from a sense of mission from the very beginning. And what's also intriguing and I see this I'm seeing this in my own grandchildren. Thank God my children and grandchildren is that our children many of the children of Schlim are making the choice to become. I have now one grandchild who got married recently and he just became a two, three weeks ago and I have another one that got married recently and he's going to soon become a This is a really remarkable. I don't find any other religious group that has been so successful in multigenerational inspiration. It's something very amazing and unusual and it really goes to the Reb's teachings and the vitality of these teachings. You know, sometimes people have ideas and they dissipate. When I became available, >> there were 45 out of 200. Where were the rest of them? >> They It was only supposed to be people who ran institutions and only in America. And it was put together very quickly. It was totally disorganized. I mean, >> what year was this? >> I don't remember the year. Whatever. You have to It's 35 years ago. I know it was a long time ago and I was there and I wasn't in the picture because I left before the picture. So I missed history, you know. You weren't there. I was there. I was there. I was there. And when I came to do registration at the Kinis, the guy says, "Can I have your driver's license?" I said, "I've been here from the beginning." Like you're asking me me for my ID. This is pretty hilarious. You know, we've become corporates. We got so [clears throat] so I think that I think that this version of Jewish leadership >> that we have created that the Reb created this model uh that's not a model it's a it's a real reality is is to the envy of the rest of the Jewish world. >> Good afternoon everyone. Um few months ago my kid was sick. I found out about right Care. >> Right is amazing. You're home, you're not feeling well. It's cold outside. You don't want to go over to the doctor but you want to make sure that you're able to feel better. They send technicians to your home. 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And now I love even better because they're my sponsor. earlier as we I always noticed this is like a more deep kabad question that in there's one kabad bala English speaking and there's about at least 10 non-abad English speaking balas based on the data five 6 thousand what is it why [clears throat] and I mean how is it or why is it or what's what's where the numbers going off that there are six six 7,000 and there I asked the rashiva of Mayano today. I said, "How many students do you have in Mayo?" This is the foremost, you know, I'll show you. There's 80 bum 80 guys in the boys department. Um what's what's what's going on? Another I don't I don't want to put the dirty laundry in public. It's something that I asked a few BVAs in Kabad and they all have empty beds officially. There's like they're we have thousands of kids coming into CTeens. Thousands came into the the um Pigisha last week. I see how walking down Kingston Avenue every Sharia comes with one, two, three, four balabat. Where are these kids? >> I think we're failing to be very honest and I have had taken a very different attitude and if you speak to the staff at May not they'll tell you that I send a student there even though I'm in a community probably once every 18 or 24 months. I think we are failing in this area miserably and I've spoken about it publicly numerous times. Interesting that you asked the question, but it happens to be >> what's crazy is I didn't know the data and then today I met Rabbi Vikhan and then by chance today I had a shabas guest who is becoming closer to kabad now but he became from through a kiru professional I understand but let me explain you there's something about the kiru professionals which are the literary outreach worker who have one approach and we do but I think we have a weakness and something we can learn from them their primary purpose is to make people who are like them. Our primary purpose is to make Jews grow in their Yiddish kite and we want them to become also who they really are. It's a very different kind of worldview. However, I I've learned a very interesting lesson over the last couple years that when you turn to somebody who has the potential to go to yeshiva that um and you say to them those words, why don't you try it out? Sometimes you get much more success in your approach. And I and I was wondering why I am so driven by this. And I realized what the reality was. When my family moved to Israel in 1968, I thought the yeshiva kabad was a yeshiva high school. I was 16 years old. Now I had gone to the yeshiva kabad yeshiva Montreal. I wasn't yet like a full-fledged lab and everything. But I was like very much connected and I had gone to have a private meeting with the reb. The reb told me to go toad, but I didn't know what was in store for me. And I arrive there to the office of the yeshiva in Lud and I find out that it's a yeshiva. There's an English speaking program but there's no high school. And so one of the administrators in the yeshiva said, you know, it's the middle of the year. Why don't you just go and try it out? And I went and I think that subliminally put into my head that we need to have the courage to push people harder to go to yeshivas. And I think we're failing in this. I don't I know I don't know what's driving it. I'm not going to though a psych uh you know I'm not a psychologist to analyze what people thinks but personally over the years I have sent many people to yeshivas including mayonote in particular may not which I'm I was in my note two weeks ago for shamas I think that we really need to change up our game and and I think we need to look at people who are and say to them why don't you give it a try now if you suggested that the problem with the litfisher is something else and this is a very >> they get paid per guy that >> I know what it used to be. >> That's what my brother told me that we don't offer enough financial incentives to him. >> No, no, it's something even different. It's it's deeper than that. We have had >> I interviewed one of the heads of their movement and they said, "Yeah, if they don't send enough people, we cut the we cut the funding." But so so what happens [clears throat] is is something deeper. >> They also get they don't really they we also get a lot of people turned off by them. In other words, a guy they are pushing people toward one goal to become a nice guy who go a boy or girl who goes to yeshiva goes to kaidel and lives happily ever after. It's a noble goal. It's a good intention. But if you are not willing to go through that path, they'll drop you. And many campus >> they don't get paid. >> What? >> Cuz they don't get paid. >> That what I'm not going to analyze what they what they do or they don't. But we and we have I've had experiences where people who would not fit that mold say you're the best friend on Monday, Tuesday, why don't you go to yeshiva Wednesday I don't not interested Thursday I'm talking to the next guy >> sales >> so therefore >> targeted salesman >> targeting sales now on the other side we're dealing with the whole person I am I I went into campus work 50 years ago I still have a relationship with some of the students of mine from the University of Miami, it's deep relationships. And so therefore, on one level, we're doing much better than them. But on another level, we need to up our game, which means it's time to take greater emotional risk and to suggest people to go to yeshiva and not to be fearful of it. I myself have done it many, many times and sometimes I've been shocked by who went. >> So you know, let me ask this question and I asked this for Rabbi Blau earlier. What's considered a successful? >> Wow. It's a very loaded question. Before we finish, before you answer that, >> I I I understand they're looking with big empty buildings. They they they did successfully built a building, but then my empty so where's >> coming? I'm coming from I just left [clears throat] Joel. I play the living terror video every week. Jeem, I love what you're doing. It's mish keeping labava kids today. Everybody in the world today so motivated and excited about yushka with the weekly living terror video. That's how I start my week. Especially the first the first part >> everything and a few minutes ago the saying in the video it looks like the early years like in the 60s or 70s the beard is like very grayish like the not the real white one we know from the later years >> and the is saying that I'm pushing people to go on just a few minutes ago I'm pushing people to come on and people are saying they have to go to a community where there's thousands of people and it's not for me I'm going to go and the says I'm going to go like Gabby Holtzburg I can't believe you mentioned it you said he was a bucka he he went through shas Right. >> And you write it in your book. You wrote in your book. You wrote that he he had a they were wearing every night and that guy actually dropped out and he continued and he finished and the says that there so I'm going to go to a community and the says you have to go everywhere and even if there's only a few people and it should be every so that to be successful to go to a place like how do you know if that's a place to go to if you you're not the right guy for the fit. But on the other hand, people that are not the right people for the community and they end up not being successful. Some people are super successful. What's >> I think Mo's I think Moses's question though is an important question. I think you're successful if you if you have an impact on people around you and you're transformational in your community and you're also transformational in yourself. Now you have to do something else which is you always have to challenge yourself to ask have the courage to ask the question if I'm doing things that are effective or not effective. There's certain people you get laidback. You're doing something for a long time. And you may say, "Ah, you know, I have these 14 guys at the Kdish and they like to kiss control and we'll live happily ever after." And it's Thursday afternoon. You can get on the phone and you can call another 10 guys and maybe get more people to the minion or more people to the class, more people this. And anybody can become, so to speak, laidback in life. I think a has to wake up every single day and ask himself one question. Am I today doing what the Reb wants from me? And that's the real important question. Now listen, the answer in Ann Arbor, Michigan is going to be very different than the answer is going to be in Bangkok, Thailand or in Yorbalinda, California or in in in I met a this week, the first day I got here on Wednesday, I meet a guy in the coffee shop in the morning. Where are you from? He is from Peru. Where does he live? In some town with 20 Jews, but he has a hundred Israeli treers coming through every week. Now his success is impacting a trans a population which is in transition. I think if you ask yourself that question every day. Am I doing what the Reb wants for me to do? And and you're working your to the best of your ability to do so, you're going to be successful. And I'm sure there's guys who built buildings who didn't fill them up. And there's guys who fill up who could fill up a building who never know how to build a building. There is all different kinds of people up there. >> [clears throat] >> One of the things that I think is unique about Schlick and I write about this in the first book, The Secret of Kabad, it's based on individuality. Kabad was never a system of group think. It was always a the core value of Kabad was a which is serving Hashem with your own abilities. And I look at my community in Orange County. We have one who's really into he wants a minion three times a day. He gung-ho. This is what he wants to do. You have another guy who's a master educator and he teaches JLI and he's fantastic with that. You have another third guy who's great in community building. The Reb did not want that the guy who he wanted each one to let their own creativity flow. But within the context of that, if you're failing to challenge yourself to say what more can I do and what can I achieve then you're not a successful. Now, the potential in Laram, Wyoming, and I met a guy from Laram this weekend, >> is much different than the potential in Beverly Hills. >> I just also want to interject. I've never seen any of experienced success like Rabbi Leazri in greeting and talking to all the younger all different ages, inquiring about where they're from in seven. It was really, really special and meaningful to watch you just from the background talking and engaging with everyone. Well, I have >> I just want to say that >> I made a rule many years ago about the Schulman convention. I don't want to talk to anybody from California. [laughter] >> Why? I see them all the time and I meet I find the most interesting thing about the listen I've been coming to the Kennes for 30 some odd years almost 40 every year. So I've been to all either I've been to every session or I gave every session. [laughter] So I've had I've been I go to the main sessions and I go some of the workshops. To me the most interesting thing is I walk in the room and I want to talk to people who I don't know. I want to hear their story. I want to hear what they have to say. I want to interact with people from different parts of the world because the beauty of this whole thing is you see spiritual heroism which is unparalleled. You see creativity which is remarkable and you see individuality and that was the point that was coming to before. Kabad was never a place of a bunch of robots. It's a place where individuality and creativity flow. And I think this was one of the geniuses of the Reban Schlus was to let that that person who he was be who he was. So if you happen to be into Jewish music and you can become a great khazin and have kentoral skills and I'm the total tonedeaf guy in the world then that's great. You >> an artist nonetheless >> an artist nonetheless. I you know I I when I started working on the books I was I had a very interesting conversation. I went with Rabbi Manis Friedman the first time we ever went to a federation conference in Washington DC. This was the first time Kabad ever turned up. And we went together, me and Rabbi were here. >> I don't know, it was maybe 18 years ago, whatever it was. And we fly into Washington for Shabas. And Saturday night, M Shabas, we fly back to New York to go to the convention. So we're sitting in national airport and I say, "Manis, I'm thinking of writing a book, but I don't know if I should write a book and blah blah blah, etc. The secret. I got to start doing interviews." So Manis says to me, "Okay, David, let's start do the first interview right now." And I realized that I had been holding myself back in writing. And I should have started writing 20 years earlier. Everybody has certain there's certain people who are master speakers. You have people like Rabbi Jacobson, Rabi Briskkey. These are great orators. There are certain people who are unbelievably you have I was recently I visited in Miami. We went to a tragedy. Somebody was sitting Shiva. I spent a day or two in the home of Rabbi Label Shapiro the Roshish Shiva a phenomenal gifted teacher of Torah which >> California has Meni Cohen in Sacramento. Probably one of the biggest. >> Yeah. Unbelievable. Meni. Every one of these people takes their and takes their creativity and finds the way to to bring it out in their own unique way. And also there's another element we shouldn't forget which is the women. We have phenomenal women in Labavich who do unbelievable things who are teachers and educators and fundraisers, community organizers. My Kabad house is being really run to a large degree by my daughter with together with her my son-in-law who do a magn magnificent job together. They do it very differently than I would do it. But I step back and let them let their creativity flow because >> the new generation. >> The new generation. >> I just have to pay the bills. That's the [laughter] only problem. I can I can give you my donation link if anybody wants it. >> With your charm, we're not worried. >> What? >> With your charm, we're not worried. >> Okay. But that the role of women in leadership, the role of individuality, the role of letting the creativity of each one to flow. I think that's one of the unique qualities of and what I enjoy at the kinis more than anything else is hearing people's stories from all over the world. >> What does it cost to write a book? If I want to write a book tomorrow, >> first you have to buy a computer. >> Okay. >> And then you got to sit there and stare at the screen and figure what you're going to write. Now, when you write a book, you have to get a publisher, which is very difficult to do. >> You have to. You can self-publish. No, >> you can self-publish, but I don't think it's going to go very far. >> What? because >> because I don't think it's going to be taken seriously by the broader public and you really want to create a professional product. I was very fortunate. Uh my first book Corin was >> you could you could self-publish you can publish you want and sell 14 copies >> and and you sell 14 copies. I only know that my new book this undaunted sold almost you know like 1500 copies in pre-sale on Amazon and now you can't even get it because they're so backlogged over there with the with the sales. So I wanted to have I was lucky I was fortunate the first time around to get Cororin to publish my first book and the second book was pretty easy. >> Toby is >> Toby is a division of Corin. >> I sat down with Matthew Miller who's the head of Corin. I said Matthew I want to write another book biography of the Fred the Kurba. He says no problems. You know how to write. You know how to sell. You're right. We're doing the job. That was the end. It was a the conversation round two. It was round two was a 30 secondond conversation. >> What was the what was the first round? Someone wanted to write a book. They wanted to I'll tell you what happened with the first to call them, email them. >> No. No. What happened? He he was thinking of taking my book, >> the first one. >> The first one, but then he was very >> was it already fully written? >> I had written a lot of it, but it was it wasn't that well written. It was all as >> hold on. We're going off track. You met Manis Freedman on the plane 18 years ago >> and he says and and then I >> So, you could be my first interview. And what happened? >> I started working in the book, but I stopped and I started and I had a son that was sick for two years in a hospital and I had other challenges in life. So it was a a start and start process. This new book undaunted I started and finished. It took me four years but this was much more complicated because I needed to do phenomenal amount of research. So I stopped and started with the first book. But what happened was is they were wary to take me and I had a I I be I befriended one of the great friendships of my life was a man called Yehudav wrote a book called the prime ministers. >> Top book >> and Yehuda became a very very dear friend and Yehuda was published by Korin and he told the owner of Cororin take the book and do it. when he found he had seen my book and heard about it and he thought about it was unsure if it's really going to work and I don't think they understood the Kabadan market at that time. Now they're beginning to understand that we're like a gigantic market. So um he this he >> especially with the right promoter >> what no it's just understanding that today you're you're in you're in 100 countries with so many kabad centers. You know that today according to the Pew study 16% of American Jews are involved with Kabad on a regular basis and 36% periodically which means the reform movement that says we're the biggest Jewish movement only 14% of American Jews are members of reformed temples and 33% selfidentify I am reformed. So our numbers of regulars and periodicals are bigger than reformed in the United States. In other words, there's 750,000 Jews who are somewhat connected to Kabad every single year. We're a we're a lot of people today. Now, I'm not telling you that they're all putting on fillin and they're all religious and everything like that. It could be they turned up for yizkar or they came to the khan lang for an hour or could be they come every shabas or could be you know it could be a hundred different things. So today you know we are today a major movement. So they so they they took the book, but it's hard to convince publishers because there's a lot of people out there. Everybody dreams of writing a book >> and everybody, you know, and there's a lot of books that get published that sell 500 copies. And >> do do they are do they pay you or >> they pay you a little bit for each book? Sometimes a lot of times publishers want you to pay them, >> right? >> Thank god they're paying me. It's not that much. I'm not going to get rich. Uh my wife is not going to be able to run to Fifth Avenue and go shopping at Tiffany's. She'd love to, but I don't think it's going to happen. But I what manis told me that moment was this is the most important schlikas mission I'm doing in my life the ability to write a book and I was very touched. I gave a preliminary copy of this to somebody, preview copy at the national Jewish retreat and he calls me a few weeks later. He says, "You know, I have a big sim. I had a baby that was born this morning was a bris." I said, "That's great." He says, "Yeah, I named the kid after the Reb because you inspired me reading your book." >> Yes. >> Books. He named it Yseph. He already had a [clears throat] There is a tremendous power in a book of you're putting in something for generations. And I think that this book, Undaunted, about the previous Reb is such a powerful story. There's so much there. And I think also within the Kamad community, we understand slices of his life. Like you read, you were sitting and reading a book about him that he said in 1927 on Shabas afternoon be after the ch before the sleep and then you dozed off and you forgot about it. You know pieces of his life but you don't know the whole picture and his life is so dramatic. I think that story had to be told. I think for ourselves it has to be told. I think has to be told for our children and I think the rest of the Jewish world have to realize that the previous Reb was one of the most consequential figures of 20th century jewelry and the impact of what he did is has a lasting effect today. When I made the first speech about the book which was a week and a half ago or two weeks ago it was last Saturday night a week ago at Kabad Laguna Niguel I turned I told the people at the end they said none of you would be sitting here tonight in this building if the previous rabbi didn't do the things he did. I think he had a lasting historical impact on I mean for sure but on on Yiddishite and Judaism in the whole world [clears throat and cough] was obsessed with like he talks about him in every single talk he talks he used to go to the told people was the biggest bless you could get that I'll mention your name my father-in-law's resting place in the later years went to almost every single day during the sperm trial he went every single day and I one time heard a story where there somebody was very very not well and they asked the deb if they should add a And the Reb said, "He has my father-in-law's name. Of course, you shouldn't change his name." So, it's funny when I >> There was a saying by that the previous Reb had one, the Reb. And the Reb spends an enormous amount of time with the previous Rebs because during that period of time, we document it in the book, the previous Rebends between 1930 and 1939, almost two years in medical treatment. And who's with him all that time is the Reb. And what I think is going on at that period of time, again, this is my theory, is a deep spiritual mentorship between the generations. The Reb Rashab, the fifth Reb, took his son under his wing and spent an immense amount of time in summer months between between the period he was 15 and 20 years old and put a tremendous amount of time into mentoring him. And during this period of time that the Reb is ill, the previous Reb who's with him in Vienna for for four or five months when he's getting medical care, it's the Reb. And you and if you read the Rashima, which is the diary of the of the Reb that was discovered after his passing, it's full of all these beautiful little stories about that he heard from his father-in-law. So there's a a phenomenal spiritual bond between these two generations, between these two men and and I think it's the previous Rebing the Reb to become the Reb. And the Reb sees himself as aid and he sees he's in you know there somebody told me a line I discovered in one of the actually they didn't tell me I discovered one of the interviews about the previous Reb that if you wanted to see total BL self-nullification somebody with total humility you would see the Reb sitting in front of his father-in-law at a table when his father-in-law when the previous would take a fork he would take a fork but he would move [clears throat] there was a sense of difference which was phenomenal [snorts] [cough] >> I'm just saying after this book, you might want to buy and hold some of the the memorability of the Fed cuz the value is going to go shooting up after this book comes out. >> So, you grew up in California. >> Yeah. Till I was about 14. >> 14. And you told me on the car ride here that at 14 your family moved to Montreal, right? >> And they lived down the block from the Yeshiva. >> Literally, I was a I was probably 150 yards away. So, how do you go from not being a Lava boy to coming a 14-year-old that joins the yeshiva to becoming one of the most prominent in the West Coast 50 years on who's like a mentor to the younger today? >> I don't know how that that part I can't comment about, but what I can comment about is that I went when I went to the Kabad. I mean, I had gone to an Orthodox day school in Los Angeles, Hill Hebra Academy, which was a modern Orthodox school, which still exists today. It is a wonderful school by the way, and I'm a proud alumnest of Hill. But the the yeshiva at the time was not just a school for labavature kids, but it had a a variety of kids. So I I fit in there. >> That doesn't I heard the same thing about Ocean Parkway that like in the ' 60s, '7s, ' 80s, Ocean Parkway was loaded with Wabavich kids, not Wabisha kids. >> Even in the ' 90s when I was >> even in the ' 90s, I never went there. But >> so there was a variety of kids there. So I went in there and and and I I started I I had to because I had learned in a in a in a religious Zionist school that taught which I couldn't stand which they tell you Moshe and Moses said but you know whatever it's they translated in the you translated Hebrew. So I had to catch up with the Yiddish and the level of learning was a little higher in the Kabad yeshiva. So I started learning with some of the yeshiva bakim and being with those Bahram really I was excited by their passion by their excitement. They were very >> which one specifically? >> I think people like label Kaplan I was very close with label Kaplan. In fact when he went off to Australia became my pen pal. >> Um he in 1967 he went off to Australia >> for two years. The first >> yeah the first people know the history. The Reba sent the first group of yeshiva students to Australia in the late 1960s which you know really propelled Australia to become a center a stronger center of Yiddish. So I became very enamored with the Baham. I would hang out with these guys. They were older. I was a younger kid you know whatever it is and became friendly with them and I think they slowly nurtured me along toward you know becoming more involved with Kabad. And then I went to the Ramba with them with the yeshiva. They convinced me we're going to New York on a bus trip. Of course, they hired the big most rundown bus in the universe. >> Nothing changes. >> Nothing changes. You know, a school bus that can barely made you 42 miles an hour, but um >> was 87 built then or >> I have no idea what it was. Whatever. >> This is how many years ago just for the >> I would say it was probably 1966. >> I imagine that was like 50 60 years ago. >> It was a big big like timeline before they built the 87 the freeway versus not. >> Listen, I didn't know what was going with the freeways in those days. I was too young to know. >> All I know is I got on the bus, we got here eventually, >> 60 years ago, >> right? A long time. >> So you get on the bus, you get to New York, you're meeting the rabbi for the first time. >> So I get my my principal nishiva had taken a liking to me, Rabbi Faguster, and I owe him a great, you know, sense of appreciation for >> correct >> for putting me under his wing, so to speak. He brings me to his in-laws to stay for in Shamas, and we we have a private meeting. I go on the Fabangan on Shabas, which I don't really understand what's going on too much. So there was another friend of mine who had come from Montreal, Ya Fatkin. So we left the fab in the middle. >> He's also a in California. >> Yes. And we went down to Bedford and Dean. We got chased by this big guy, you know, down the street, you know, to chase some Jewish kids. But then we had a >> real crownites bedside experience. >> Bedside experience. But with the guy who chased me was 5'2, but by now, as I tell the story over the years, he's 7 foot6. So um [laughter] so then we also had a pri the group of kids from the tradition in Montreal because the previous rebba had established the yeshiva with a group of refugees from Shanghai in the beginning of 1940 in the beginning 1941. So the tradition was the high school kids would meet with the reba privately. So we had a private meeting with the rebba which was you know I didn't exactly understand the whole thing that's going on. You know, first thing the Reb spoke to us and I was over there. I was became very enamored by the whole thing. >> You're a 14-year-old. >> I was, I think, 15 by then. Not sure. A little bit blurred. About 15 almost 15, whatever it was. But there was a sense, you know, a friend of mine a while ago, a conservative rabbi said to me, David, I regret one thing. I said, what's that? He says, I never went to the rabbi. Very prominent conservative rabbi. And I said to him, Steve, there's two things you missed in your life. You never encountered sanctity, holiness, and you never encountered emotional honesty. When you went into the Reba and when you went when you deal with people, there's always some kind of hidden agenda. There's always something you feel that there, you know, what's going on? You know, >> what's the hidden agenda here? >> What >> what's the hidden agenda here? >> Here, there's no hidden agenda. We just [laughter] got to we but no, but people have agendas, you know. So you go into the Reb, you felt total emotional honesty and you felt you were in the presence of somebody who was on another spiritual plane that you so that's what I sensed in all of this experience >> and that was something very special. So I really didn't understand it but I knew something was something that was different here. You know as a teenage kid I I I felt like I was privileged. Listen was small. The schul was not very fancy. It was but there was there was some there was an element of emiss here of truth of spiritual truth and of kadusha of holiness which was it just touched my soul. >> You spoke to the or was just >> I didn't speak to him. >> He gave out coins. >> I don't remember. We walked in know you could buy whatever [laughter] >> he wants to sell it right now. I'll pull out the dollar from 1926. It's going for sale next week for $452,000 every day. talking about >> 100% 100%. So you go back to Montreal and then you >> Yeah, but I want to share what happened before I went back to Montreal because that's was I think that was a the moment of so to speak change. So I come the last night before I want to go back but bus is going back in the morning and I come to 770 I want to see the rebel one more time. So the place is it's upstairs in the small sh which I measured by the way is some 700 square feet the whole koodle. So the I can't get >> that's the room that busy. >> Yeah that's the room. So I so I I I try to go in for the first entrance. I try to get in the back. I can't get in. So I stand by the elevator between the Reb's room and between the the shul. I figured I'll see him again. The Reb walks out. He starts crossing the hall and the the there was a certain kind of decorum in Labavich which I didn't understand at the time. And the Reb secretary Rabbi Khakov would stand by the door. The Reb would walk in the shy close the door and then they begin the dinging. Well, I've always been, let's say, not the most sedate individual. >> So, when the Reb begins to walk, >> that's what we like about you. What? >> That's what we like about you. >> I don't know if whatever. >> That's why it says we need him on the pod. >> We need him on the pod. [laughter] >> We need him. >> So, I I see the Reb walking in and I see there's some room there. So, I start following him in. >> So, at this point, Rabbi Rabbi, I really didn't know who he was, starts closing the door on me. The people in the sh start going like this. Move back. Move back. I'm a little bit pushy. I continue to move forward. I'm like a deer caught in the headlights. There's a tumult going on. And the Reb turns around and sees a kid. He, as they say in Yiddish, he doesn't look like a kid. The hat is colored. The the hair is longer. You know what I mean? It's just he didn't fit the mold. And he turns to like this with his hand. He says, "Open the pushes, open the door." And he turns to me. Come on down. >> Wow. Big car. >> Some stand next to me. Doesn't say a word to me. and people who are the watch, you know, the the people that hung around 770 forever told me it never happened again. Whatever it is, if it happened or not, the point is, >> and then you stood next to the Reb, right? >> I stood next to the Reb. Yeah. But but the point is here, the Reb sees somebody who's different and he doesn't push him away. He wants them to stand next to him. And I think this is really emblematic of everything about the Reb's leadership and really what the mission of Schlukim is. You know, people say, "You don't fit the look. You don't look like me. You don't fit in. Okay, forget it. I don't want this guy in my building. Kabad says, "Nah, you look different. You might be more interesting." We want to connect with people who are and we spend our lives dealing with people whose values, theology, ideologies, whatever are very different than our own. Our lives are dedicated primarily to Jews that we don't fully agree with, which I always tell this to liberals. Liberals, you know, they think that, oh, we're the most liberal in the world. So, so the truth is a friend of mine, you know, he left the local reformed temple and he started coming to Kabad. So, one day I asked him who's more tolerant of who? Us of them or them of us. He says you're much more tolerant of them [laughter] than they are of you. >> Cuz they're our targets ourselves. They're ourselves to us. You know, they don't >> No, no, but no, it's a question of [laughter] if we want to look at the value of every person, even the one that we don't agree with theologically. They want to say if you don't fit the mold then you must be extremist or radical or whatever word they like to put on us because instead of dealing with ideas they want to call your name. We we asked we had a last week, Rabbi Jacobson from Iowa and he turned his into running a very successful kosher delhi and he has maybe 50 60 people come a day and he say these are people that they weren't going to come to sher they weren't going to come in yanim every day and I asked him and I'm going to ask you again you were on for 50 years and now you're reaching tens of thousands hundreds of thousands and I really believe after reading this book and starting to read on that and I didn't finish it yet it gives you such a good feeling about yadeshkite such a good feeling about the Reb is obsessed with the fir is like the most greatest Jewish leader that ever lived. This should definitely be mandatory writing. >> Mandatory reading. >> MAND OH, NOW YOU'RE TALKING BUSINESS. >> Mandatory reading in every Jewish home. >> You know what I say? Every time I sell a book, another grandchild gets a slurpee. We're going to have an abundant slurpees. >> We should It should be mandatory reading in Jewish high schools, Jewish preschools. I mean, older kids that can read it because we have to start having we have to be proud. We have to be proud of our heritage. This book makes you extremely proud of being a lab aavature. It talks about our success and this people have to know where you come from. We have to know their story. >> We have to know the story. But but but what I wanted to talk about is that it got Manis Freedman. You you said you were always a gifted writer, but now you're reaching >> if I was gifted, but I I always wanted >> The point is is that he had to open up a deli to bring out his talent. You're able to reach not only the thousands of Jews that live in your Belinda, which I've never been there, and I would love to come see your kabad house and your center and your children that join you in, but you're now able to reach tens and tens and hundreds of thousands of people with your books. And I asked him and I don't know if we got what the clear answer was. What do you tell to the 6,000 brothers and sisters onus that whatever they thought they were going to accomplish there a lot of times you get to a place I don't know I live in crown heights and you realize it's not really Jacobson said you got there and it really they weren't ready for coming to how you able to find another way to bring your talents to the rest of the world. How does each know where to bring out his talents? >> Because again you have to challenge yourself. You can't be satisfied with what you've done and you have to ask yourself what are your unique gifts and you have to have the strength of character to realize what they are. There could be you know each one of us has different strengths was never onesizefitsall. It was where your creativity go but I am saying is challenge yourself to grow because if you don't challenge yourself to grow then you're you're very you get frustrated to a degree. So if Hashem makes by divine providence, he brings you an opportunity. You have to say to yourself, okay, how do I do this? And how can I use this in in the in a way which brings a kiddos shamay brings a a broader connection of more Jews to Judaism. How can it be this be something which has an impact on others? So I think it really comes back to what I said earlier. You have to challenge yourself. Now there's people who go through life and they're very sedate and comfortable. If they like potato cool, they're never going to touch eat sushi. Now, personally, I'm against eating sushi because I eating any kind of dead fish other than gapila or locks is against my religious beliefs. And I can't understand how my how so many people love sushi. I've never been to Japan sushi. You see, this is irrational. Dead fish drives me crazy. But >> if we don't, we have to always ask ourselves, a Jew has to grow. He's got to develop. He's got to expand their resources. Got to expand our spiritual horizons. So, let's do it. Now, what that's going to be, I don't know. Every one of us has different gifts. So use those gifts that you have and challenge yourself to grow and take risks. When I wrote a book, first thing I had to write a book was very hard to get a publisher. Then who's going to agree with the book? And then we kabat is a community of individual opinions. So everybody's going to criticize the book. Somebody came to me today. He says, "My son, my my cousin or brother-in-law, whoever it was, went through your book and he found a whole bunch of mistakes." Okay. I said, 'Good. Give me the list. I'll fix them up. But you have to you become emotionally vulnerable because anything you're going to do in life which is a bit risky is going to you have the risk of failure. Now the next thing is that when you fail pick yourself up and try it all over again. We don't we don't give up because we fail. Failure is you know we don't get in in we don't believe in I was joking with a friend of mine last week. He tells me one of the guys in our says to me he got a trophy for the highest scored golf. I said, "That is such a bunch of baloney. You got the highest scores. You got a high that's like a participation trophy. We don't want a participation trophy. You make a mistake, you fail. Pick yourself up. Ask yourself how you can do better because God put this obstacle in the way, which means you can overcome it. You can grow." >> The four years it took you to write this book, Undaunted, and you travel the world. Yes. Doing research. Tell for somebody that's ready to buy this book as a khan gift or to give it to somebody in his community as a gift or a teacher. Tell us something shocking that like a little tidbit. Tell us some shocking things you found out about the fre. >> First I want to tell you something new. >> What? I'm just What percent is based on luti durum? A lot of it a little >> there is there was it's based to a large degree on many of the freed's writings including all these different things. The bigger question is what is durum which is another question into itself which is a very interesting question because a very strategic move by the previous reb. I think the first and most interesting thing about this book which is different than us. You have many books published about what we call in Hebrew Gdali Israel great Jewish leaders. One of those books usually he was born and when he was 6 years old he mastered the Mishna and 12 he knew Shass and he lived happily ever after and everything was perfect in his life. There's never was a moment of difficulty and challenge. He was holy and wonderful. There was never a bad moment and he never had any difficulties. Everything was perfect. He was a utopian side. Now I'm I'm there's a lack of intellectual honesty in Jewish history in particular by certain publishers which we don't have to mention their names today. >> No free advertising. >> No free advertising. We don't want to get you sued by anybody. The first thing is about the previous rabbi is he's a very open person and we have a window into his inner world. >> Very emotional. >> Very not just emotional. He writes letters to people where he shares his inner feelings. So one of the things I decisions I made going in the book is I'm not going to tell you what the Reba thinks. I do it in two or three places. You could be suggested that he may have done this because of A, B, and C, but I'm stay away from that. I don't want to tell you what the Reb thinks. I want the Reb to speak for himself. So, we have a window into his internal world, which I think is really something remarkable because that's we don't have that. And the Reb and the previous Reb are fundamentally different. As Rabo Khan, the great theologian of the Kabad movement, told me once that the Reb was a introvert that had to make himself to an extrovert to become Reba. The previous Reb is by nature an extrovert. He's a very expressive individual full of passions and cries and ups and downs and all kinds of things. So we have that understanding of his world. There's that you there it's really something which is very remarkable. Second thing is the drama of his life. He doesn't, you know, the Reb becomes Reb in 1951. He's in New York. A political stable situation financially. I mean, he, you know, he's he doesn't have to worry about basics. You know, Kabad is growing, whatever it may be. He's got problems and challenges and different questions and communities. He's trying to lead and do things and wants to push the community to accomplish more, but the basics are that the previous rabbi is is fighting up the pgrams of the ba famous bailis trial, which was the blood label trial 1913. He's the one who's helping planning the defense with the lawyers in the background. Then he's he's he's he's he's involved with planning conferences with the with the prime minister of Russia. Then he's involved with >> Wait a second. You start off this book >> where the fab was 11 years old. >> He's arrested, >> beaten up, a little bit smacked around, thrown in a jail cell with with animals in the cell. It's dark. >> That's right. >> And his father's proud of him. I'm saying is you really bring out that point from page one how challenging and difficult his life He writes about his life and for instance in that first chapter of the book he writes I had a difficult childhood. My father was away because his father was sick. My I had bad friends and I had a teacher that beat me up. Now what every great rebbitical scholar in the last had a book in the last 25 years that and guess what I didn't write it. >> He wrote it. >> He wrote it. But I want to tell you something about deburam which is a very interesting caveat. What's the debum? The rabbi is exiled from Russia in 1927. He comes to Ria. Now he has a total new challenge. how to bring kabad to western Europe in Russia he's the head guy he's the number one rabbi labavatur for the last 150 200 years since the time of the alterba the founder of kabad in the late 1780s kabad is always a top tier of leadership he comes to p he comes to he comes to latia he comes to poland there's the greb the redskb there's great rabbitical figures how many does he have as one of the kabad historians writes he's a melam he's a king without a nation he doesn't have anybody. He has very small crowd. He doesn't have many people and they have their system. They have a good he doesn't want any part of a good because he doesn't want to be politicized. He's an individ he's like definitely out of the norm. And and then he has another problem. How does he take people and give them a sense of identity of what it means to be aid? So Ria is his place of experimentation. And I write about this in the book where he's trying to figure to bring kabad to Western Europe. Alo. So Ria is this bridge between the secular between the west and the east. It's where the famous Max Lillianthal who tried to bring the Huskan to Russia. He was he established the first secular school in Russia in Latvia. So I don't know if he's a great Max Linenthal the the leader of the the enlightenment max reform. No >> he becomes he comes to America and becomes the number two guy in the reform movement but what happens is his concern is how do I give people identity? Everybody needs a story. You need a story. We know who are we? Where are you from? So he begins now he's been writing these stories down since his childhood. Why does he pick he it's 1927 he's at this point 47 years old. Okay he's begin now he's he's beginning to he publishing the stories. Why did he do it 10 years ago? Why not 20 years ago? He has a dilemma. How am I going to give people an identity of what it means to be aid? I need to give them their story. So borim is the creation ofidic historioggraphy to give people identity to tell them what it means to be aid. That's what he's doing. He's instilling identity because you have polish they're fine people. You have literature people you have other religious people and you have people drifting away from religiosity in the at the beginning of world war uh one 75% of Polish jewelry was shabas observant. The beginning of world war II was 50%. There's a big attrition going on. So how am I going to hold on to this crowd? I got to give him a story. That's the debururum. It's not just he published the books. He made a very calculated move to give people a spiritual identity. And when we begin pondering the freed's strategies for survival, what he did, it's a very interesting story. His empowerment of women. >> Not all not all the kids today in Wabuch are going to turn out to be. A lot of us play leaders and supporters of podcasters. >> Yeah. Podcasters are very important. >> So, a lot of our kids and our we all need to be taught and enlightened about our history, right? >> And this book is going to give you a lot of pride. >> It's going to give them a lot of pride, but it's also going to we need for be beyond my book, people need to know who they are, what is their identity. It's a very very important thing. So, the the stories of the previous Reb are tells us what it means to be aid. >> There's a new sponsor >> available on Amazon. Oh, every and every place else. >> The book is available on Amazon >> and all bookstores all over the place. >> All fine Jewish books are sold. >> Clap. We have a new sponsor. >> This is who [clears throat] the neighbor the crafter give us a little >> dipsticks. >> Dipsticks. You give us a little taste and give us a >> first. I just want to let you know even though they're paying us if I don't like to I'm going to taste this. Oh, there's a big risk here. I don't know [laughter] what I'm getting into. >> I'm a carbs addict. No dip, natural, delicious. Hope they gave us a few boxes. [laughter] >> And of course, our regular sponsor, CH Butcher Build. >> By the way, if you have a box of Kaiser in the car and a bag of butcher beef bill tongue, you got a whole meal going. >> That's right. You can you can survive any you can survive in Arkansas with this stuff. >> You'll get your protein obviously from the bilong. 16 grams per package, too. My nephew is a big gym gym rat. who's like, "Boy, I need those bill tongues. He keeps on begging me, making deals just to get some of these samples." So, thank you so much for our sponsors. >> Thank you so much, Raasi, for coming on the show. I don't even think we I don't even think we scratched the surface, but I will tell everybody watching that The Secret of Kabad is a tremendous book. I spoke to a was actually in the colony on the in the summer. He was telling me he read the book and he felt so proud and he feels so empowered. And when he goes to fund raise and when he speaks to people, this is like a natural book you show people. And the book on again I was fascinated by the I don't know if I finished saying it that when I heard that story about the Reb saying about somebody that named their child. So of course I have a >> and the Reb says like you know you don't need better than that and um I encourage everybody to buy this gift especially now season's coming up. We're in everybody should grab a copy to give out Hanukkah gifts. >> I just want you said one story the other night that really hit me on the way back driving from New York to Montreal. You got stuck with a bus, broke down. >> Tell us a little story in the We said something very cool that really resonated with me. That was >> It's in the book. >> It's in the book. His name is But but but I want to tell you it's it really impacted me. What happened was >> I'm sorry for putting it by the end, but >> yeah, it's okay. Whatever you want. >> So everything you said that night, that thing really hit me. >> So what happened was the bus goes back the the rundown school bus is heading back to Montreal the next morning. By the time we get to Saratoga Springs, Saratoga Springs, it needs a Mishabara. It's not working very well. The bus gets pulled over the side of the road. There was a synagogue. I remember it was on a street called Broadway, a conservative temple. We find refuge in the in the in the in the synagogue. The meanwhile, they're fixing the bus. It's, you know, and and what happens there was something that was really very interesting. >> You walked a mile to another show. >> No, I don't know if we walked. We got ended up in the place in this conservative temple. were staying in the social hall and the kids start coming around 4:00 in the afternoon to Hebrew school. Now, one of the yeshiva students, one of the older yeshiva students who I've who lives in Long Beach, California, not far from me and is a dear friend for since I'm a kid, was that his name was then without Rabbi Maen. And by the time the kids come in, he had spoken to the education director. And he was up on the stage talking to the kids and inspiring them because you Tubishvat was coming in the next couple of days or was Tubish by then already, whatever it may be, which which is a minor Jewish holiday. We should talk about the trees and all the idea of how Judaism compares human beings to trees and all that kind of stuff. And what struck me was here we are stuck in a town in the middle of midstate New York, Saratoga Springs. The Jewish community is probably not very very large. And here this Rashiva student says, "What can I do in this city to inspire another Jew?" And really that's the purpose of aid. What can you do in any single opportunity to do something which has an impact in a good way, a transformational way, an uplifting way to another person? >> And don't forget to sign up to our channel link, share, subscribe, and forward it everywhere. And uh we look forward to seeing you guys coming back on the show. Rabbi Elazi, hopefully we'll have him back on the show in the very near future. >> What a pleasure.