Orphaned at eight to Construction mogul - Shea Rubinstein

[applause] [music] Hey guys, welcome to Clappy and Frank. This week we have uh great guest who's a Renaissance man as we call it. Either add Renaissance man, I don't know which one it is. Depends on the era of the time. contractor, singer, community activist, um, owns a trade show and a business consultant, >> CEO of the JCC of Marine Park. >> Yeah. And I would say one of the most hated uh, careers or business people I know about are contractors who have a rap for ripping off their clients. So, how often how much money do you make ripping off your clients? You know, they say there's the work order and then there's the change work order. >> You know, you make money on the initial contract and then you make even more money on the change orders. That's what they say about contractors. But just to clarify, I'm [laughter] a real estate developer contractor. I don't do custom homes anymore. I did over a hundred of the custom homes for the last 20 years. But um since 2008 until now, I'm sorry, since 2006, I've been in and out of development. But for the last five or six years, I've been totally focused on multif family and commercial development as opposed to construction for renovations and single family homes. But since this show is more I guess for more most people now I don't know how many most people build custom homes but more people build custom homes than build multif family. So we'll talk >> but I could talk to that cuz I have the experience >> and now that you're not in it you could cris them all out. >> There you go. >> They're all a bunch of thieves and right clamp. >> So in [clears throat] preparation for this show I was thinking about it. When I go into a store and I buy a bottle of wine you know I could buy a bottle of wine for $5. I could buy a bottle of wine for $50. But no matter which one I choose, I walk out with that bottle and a suit and a tie and a car. You get the SE package or the seal package. You speak to my friends at Wheels to East, they'll tell you what you're getting. If there's an issue later on, that's like customers that stand companies that stand behind their product or good customer service, etc., etc. Growing up, we did major major construction projects in my home multiple times using multiple contractors. Even in 1992, [laughter] >> even in 1992 when we did a two-year project extending our home, all four floors and adding to the basement. And again in 1996 97, a couple of hundred,000 where we did over the kitchens and bathrooms and flooring in the entire home. Not that any not that there was any major scandal or ripoff, but I feel like in construction, you never know what you're getting into. You're dealing with hundreds of thousands of dollars of it. A lot of it is labor. A lot of it is material and a lot of it is like, oh, this change. Oh, cement now. There's I remember hearing the term there's a cement strike. You can't get it. You know, a union the container got a few permits. No permits. So, you the whole market sounds very gray. Second of all, second of all, a friend of mine just bought a home two blocks down the block from me. Two blocks away from me. And I was at a fra and he takes out his phone and he's he's like sweating and he like he doesn't know what to do. He showed me that it needs like a a gut job. All floors need a gut job. Whatever. He called down three or four companies and the differences in price between the entire project. Now he showed me that some of them needs more. One of them quoted with doing all the venting. He needs to hire another contractor that just does the venting for the entire home. What's it called? >> HVAC. HVAC, the pipe, whatever. And one of them didn't include HVAC. One of them wanted something done before he gave him the difference in price sometimes was over $300,000. Speak to that. >> Okay. So, I think you're bringing up a very good point and I think there's this and I I I would definitely love to educate, you know, the people listening to this podcast because I actually made a 20part series what to do when building a home. So the simple answer is is that it's interesting to note that people spend the most amount of money in their lifetime on something they know nothing about. [laughter] There's nothing else in your life that you can spend 300, 500, a million dollars to renovate your house that you know nothing about. >> I know a guy that just did $4 million house. So the answer is really that a you have to be educated whether it's listening to podcast or someone like myself to tell you what the process is. Number two, whatever it is that you want or dream of, have it on the paper, have spend the money on a space planner, spend the money on a designer, have everything in that book. So, number one, it minimizes the change orders, and it makes it also cheaper for the contractor when he negotiates all the all the contracts. It's cheaper than if he changes his mind later because you decided that you forgot something or wanted something. And then the truth is a lot of contractors don't do this but the way I did it which is keeping them honest I would give the customer a locked in price for the job as opposed to saying oh I just charge a management fee of 100,000 or I just charge cost plus because cost plus really encourages you for the cost to be more for the plus to be more. So, if this were my house, I would a make sure that I understand the process. B, I would make sure everything that I want or potentially could want cuz it's easier to take off 20 spotlights than to add them and have everything in that book, get the proposal, and try to get in a locked in rate from the contractor. If you can't get a locked in price, at least you'll get a true budget that they're going to have to hold themselves to. But locked in but locked in price could it be that something goes drastically crazy during the time of his construction. Let's say a CO or an epidemic or prices surge and an embargo from China and sheet rockets three times the price. And these are all things that have happened in the last couple years. Now imagine a guy is working for free. You're never going to get the same amount of work. You don't want a guy working for free. My father always makes the joke. If a guy says I'm losing money on the suit, I don't want that suit. If you're losing money on it, then you're not going to be happy. >> So the answer to the question is is that you have to make sure that your payment schedule reflects specifically work in place >> as opposed to giving giving giving and then realizing that the guy says I'm not making money and it's just not going to happen. So you definitely have to make sure he has skin in the game. >> So um and also you have to know how to read a quote. I once gave somebody a quote, let's say $500,000 to renovate his home. said, "Josh, I'm not going to use you because I'm going to uh someone else that gave me $100,000 less." I said, "Maybe you can't afford me. Maybe I am expensive, but let me review it with you just as a courtesy. And if it works, it works. If not, we're not meant to work together." And I took a look and it says air condition. By me, it says supply and install air condition. By them, it says supply uh install supplied air condition. By me, it says supply and install tile. My limit says install supplied tiles which means that I'm saying that I'll give you the air condition and I'll put it in. The other guy says I will put in whatever you paid for and dropped off at the house. So that one word of either supply and install or install supplied is 30 grand 20 grand. So it turns out that the other person was about 165,000 more than me. >> So that's why the problem is you get a quote from a contractor. What do you do? truth. You open up the attachment and you scroll down to the bottom to see the total. You don't look at the six pages of little words. So, what you really need to do is um you know, I always encourage people get the space planner, get the uh designer, and you know, if you're going to take two different contractors, walk it through with them. Or what I do is I'm a developer. So, I just got a price now for mechanicals in a in an eight-story building that I'm putting up. One company came in at 575,000 and one came out at 720. So I can say, "Oh, never mind." Or I have someone in my office that does something called leveling. And he writes in the company and what they're giving, what they're giving, what the model numbers are. So we could see that maybe this guy actually decided that he was going to put 12 units instead of 23 units and that's why the price is different. So it's never about what the total price is. It's always about looking at the detail. I know we had a a elevator consultant who's a buyer representative to for elevator projects on projects. Do they have customuilt home buyers consultants? Is that something that exists or they just someone bothers you in sure and they ask you to do it for free? >> So when it comes to a very big project, there is a concept of an owner's rep. Um there is also a concept where a developer wants to know what's, you know, what's the trajectory? What should things cost? cuz I may be spending 10, 11, $15 million. So, they'll actually hire a company to bid everything out and get perspective of what's going to happen, what upgrades should they do, what the total should be. Um, and or have an owner's rep, which means someone that goes to the property and checks, make sure everything's happening. If there is a change order, they can kind of monitor. So, they're like the advocate on behalf of the owner. But when it comes to single family homes, whether they're renovation or custom, it's generally not done because it could be expensive and it it just creates fights with the contractor and the owner's rep because [laughter] all his all [snorts] he wants to accomplish is red on you to the owner to show how good he is. So, you're just creating a very strong ref. So, while I've in all my 23 years of doing this, I had this once and it wasn't a good situation because again, all they're doing is trying to show the owner how good they are. >> So, um >> it's similar to marketing agencies in our business. They have to show their client how good they are to their and then >> right [laughter] >> tell me how many people are lining their pockets and I'll explain you when I mean lining the pockets. >> How many means what percent? What's your question? How many? I'm going to show you when you hire a contractor, a lot of people have an interior designer that goes through the entire home and they're helping them in every last detail. And it seems like some people talk more to their interior designer than to their contractor. The contractor is this is like the second thought. It's like, "Oh, by the way, we also need a contractor." Because the interior designer is a young, friendly lady who went to school. She does the CAD, the rendering, the drawings. She smooths. She goes shopping with your wife for couches and covers and materials and tiles. And then to put this dream this dream together from the bungalow colony porch, we technically need a contractor that can build it. Now the contractor usually is not the one doing all the work. He's subcontracting. He's bringing in the electrical team. He's bringing in the plumbing team. He's bringing in the HVAC. My question is is that >> people always say that the designers are getting paid to recommend the contractor. So whatever they're charging, they're lining their pockets. And then for every one of the stores that they go to and every subcontractor, everybody's charging more that they can line their pockets. I wonder how much money on a $2 million home and bar park being guilt. How much money is just people shmearing their pockets? >> I'm I'm being not being sarcastic. Like how much of it is shmearing? >> So I I think from the designer side of things, and I'm not privy to all their information because I've never been on the designer side, but I do work with a lot of them very often. Um some of them will charge a per job fee and some per hour fee depending on the service that they're providing. Um, >> I think it's both. From what I understand, they don't take on a project less than a certain amount of money and then they bill you like 2 to 500 an hour. >> No. So, from my from my experience, they'll either tell you, let's say we charge $150, $200 an hour, and then you have the ability to use them just for paint, just for couches, just for wallpaper, just for layout, etc. And then you have other designers that say, "We'll give you the renderings, the layout, we'll do 100% and the cost for the project is 30 grand." Um, in addition, when they go to their stores of choice, when they bring you around, um, I think the stores, I don't think it cost you more, but I think the stores want the business, so they'll give them some type of referral fee like any other commission salesman will receive. So, I don't know if it's 1, two, 5%, but I think I don't think it comes in addition. I think it's just a good business practice for the tile store, let's say. That's what I think, but I don't know for sure. Uh when it comes to the contractor, again, you know, um the issue that I the reason that I push for people to try to get in a locked in price is because at the end of the day, the contractor goes to two plumbers. One says the price is going to be 70 and one says 90. Now, if he feels that the 90,000 is going to be better and quicker and easier for him and maybe better for you, it will be a much easier decision for him to lean to that 90,000 even though it's 20 more for you. as opposed to it coming out of his pocket we re where he really has to make a decision. I just spent 75,000 on plumbing on a job now more than another competitor because I felt that it was worth the extra 75 and I actually spent 350,000 on concrete more than another competitor because I felt that it was worth it. So sometimes you do have to go with the more expensive. I'm just saying that since you know nothing about it, it's better to try to get in a locked in price or at least present that full package and get a budget so you can hold somewhat their feet to the fire. In terms of answering your previous question, um, for acts of gone and COVID, you know, I you during co I used to put into the contract that if the price at the lumberiard, etc. reaches more than 15% of what it is today on September 1st, September 20th, then I have the right to charge that difference. So you could put it into the contract, but uh it's very important to try to be as specific as possible and that will reduce uh your cost and it's true that it will be cheaper for the contractor also the more you tell them now and the more you know. Now >> if I was just thinking when it comes to developer side, if you're building a building for rentals versus selling condos, will a developer be more cheaper? He would try to cheap out because he's selling it. he doesn't have to deal with the headache after versus if [clears throat] he's going to own the building after he builds it to rent. He wants it to be good enough [laughter] that there shouldn't be any major issues or tenants could just leave after year cuz it's they're horrible apartments. It's going to affect them. >> So, believe it or not, it's just in the reverse. When you build rentals, you think, how cheap can I build this building because I'm just going to rent it out. I know that a one-bedroom or a two-bedroom in Crown Heights or in Borrow Park or in downtown Brooklyn rents approximately for this range. or you'll maybe make the decision that you'll spend a little bit more because it's Brooklyn Heights or it's downtown Brooklyn, you can get a little bit of a better rent for a class A building. So, when it comes to rentals, most developers try to figure out how cheap can I do it because the rent is pretty much in that range. When it comes to selling, >> his question is if it's junky materials, the tenants are going to constantly complain that there's an issue with the molding with an issue with the flooring, an issue with the carpeting. >> So, what I would say is when >> you actually have to pay for the repairs, you sell a cond. What I would say is when it comes to the major items such as the superructure and the plumbing and the electric, everyone is going to try to do a good job because they don't want lawsuits. They don't want problems. They don't want to come back to fix. But when it comes to the finishes, is it tile? Is it hardwood? Is it better hardwood? Is it bigger molding? Is it fancier doors? Is it a better kitchen granite? So, when it comes to that last third where you start to see if it's wallpaper and walls and molding, that's generally where I think they'll go cheaper on the rental and more expensive on the condo because they they need that sale. They need that wow factor. And uh >> so would you say the the you said something interesting the twothirds of a building everyone does the same or not necessarily? Any good contractor will do the first twothirds the same >> from the cheapest apartments to the to the high luxury >> because if they're going to do a steel building or a superructure building, it needs to be the same. If they're going to do plumbing, they don't want leaks. Um they may not do as many sinks and points, they may not do as many spotlights, but in terms of the building and the roof and the the infrastructure, the mechanicals, they don't they don't want problems regardless of whether it's a rental or not. If I have a rental building, do I want people every day? or if I sell, do I want lawsuits and people bothering me every day that things don't work? So the first twothirds people will do well >> always the same. So a building in in 57th Street and Fifth Avenue and a building in I don't know Brighton Beach, you say the two/3 quality will probably be exactly the same. >> They just may use different items. So, when it comes to, let's say, the structure and the mechanicals, but it could be that if you're selling a higherend product, you want you want a more expensive air condition, right? Instead of having an air condition like a hotel room on the floor, you may want to do a central air system or you may want to do fancier plumbing finishes. But in terms of the core, like the roof, the building >> that zoning building department is minimum. You can't like cheap out in the on the foundation building. I'm saying right. Exactly. So I'm curious how >> when it comes to the main structure items, everyone should be doing the same and then when it comes as we call it to the finishing items. >> So the finishing the main difference or the it's the finishings and then it's some of the mechanicals like I said like what type of air condition system are we going to use >> or how fast elevator right >> or amount of elevator. >> It's true an elevator that's let's say only five floors and you could use a hydraulic or you could use you know the the the other type there could be a difference in price of 100 150,000. So that's true too. So those are the >> variations. I can tell you one thing about buildings in Crown Height, it's like even new ones, it's like if you have to go up to like the fifth or sixth floor. It could be like amazing. You walk in, you press the button, you're up in two seconds or it's like beeping and ringing and a kid's playing and there's like a stroller wheel that's still left in the elevator. >> It's like it's like a nightmare. >> These elevators could be a tremendous nightmare >> cuz is there is a minimum square footage to elevator minimum requirement in law? Not really. So the way it works in uh when when it comes to elevator is that if you do an elevator today, it has to be a handicap elevator, which means a stretcher has to fit in. So it has to be already like 7 ft by 9 ft. Then the elevator itself, if you're doing a small a short building like up to only I think it's five floors, then you could do a hydraulic elevator or you the same size but a hydraulic elevator or the other one, the overhead elevator. And one can cost let's say 180,000 versus 320,000. [snorts] And again, there's a difference. Maybe the 180 went up to 210. Maybe the 310 may went to 330. But there's about that $100,000 difference. So in the big buildings, there's no option, but five floors or less. There is an option. So when you do the hydraulic and there's a machine room in the basement and it makes more noise and it takes a little bit longer to get up and it works on oil as opposed to a machine that costs another 100 or 150 grand more. On the smaller buildings, you have the option. >> Not on oil, works on what? Hydraulic? So the hydraulic works on like an oil tank and it makes noise. >> The other one is an overhead traction. It pulls it up and it's faster and more expensive. >> Instead of oil, it's just straight up electric. >> Yeah. >> So that's where a luxury building will differ >> if it's five floors or less. >> If it's five floor less. >> So [snorts] >> actually maybe even six. So the more you can write up to the contract, you what what I noticed from what you're saying is all the things you are saying to prevent nightmares from building your custom home, the banks as well as real big real estate deals do that. The banks only pay you per floor, right? You have an inspector. Talk about financing. I I know cuz I speak to Kurt from uh Bank of Popular whose birthday was yesterday. >> Yesterday we went to his office to bring him. So he said that every floor you only get paid after every floor in the in a commercial deal, right? Could you? >> Yeah. So the way it works is in let's say a development deal is you have to have plans and you have to create a budget [snorts] and you write not per floor but you write okay the foundation and excavation is going to cost X. Then the putting up the building is going to cost X for the steel or for the superructure which means the building poured out of concrete. Then the roof will cost X. The elevator will cost X. So now they know the price per item. So what they do in the back end of the bank is they say two things. Number one, taking this whole budget together and counting the square footage, how much is the price per square foot. So let's make sure that makes sense because if you're showing me a budget of $10 million or $2 million and it's coming out that it's costing you $1,000 a square foot to build, mm- or if you tell me it's costing $62 a square foot to build also. So they look to see what the total budget is and how that divides into the square foot. And then they also take a look at the line items to make sure if it's on or about. So if you tell them the foundation is going to cost 500,000 whether it's four or six. Okay, maybe you got a price and it's a little more or less. >> But they release money. >> Oh, so what they do is stages they release it in stages based on work in place. So you have to do the foundation and then you call them down for inspection. They take pictures, give you a little report and then they'll reimburse you. So sometimes you need cash to pay upfront and sometimes your vendor will say like, "Okay, give me a deposit. I'll wait for the bank. When the bank gives you the money, I'll take the money for the foundation, etc." But they always want to make sure that they're ahead of the game. >> Exactly. There's money >> because they don't want to end up where they give you $5 million. I >> understand correctly, there's a lot of money at play where a lot of contractors are doing work, let's say, for a million or two, and they're getting a drop, a down payment, but they're waiting on bank's approval. So there's at any given moment, there's a lot of money on the line where people are being owed. And then one more thing trivia. >> So it depends. I personally do try to pay my vendors. So I try to put away some money on the project. So I have that cash flow. Some developers and builders are just dealing with so much that they just rely on the bank. And some vendors will or won't wait for the money. Some of them don't care. >> Are there behind the scenes? Are there a lot of doubters and a lot of is there a lot of fights and anger going on that you should release the money? I don't care about the bank. I don't work for the bank. You hires me not the bank. >> [laughter] >> So, I think it's like in any industry because at the end of the day, >> in my industry, nobody owes me money because they're banked in and pay them. You want to buy from me, you better pay me, >> right? But I think when it comes to a contractor versus a vendor, they're not going to be there one day to install a glass shower door. They're going to be there to do all the air conditioning and all the kitchens. So, at some point, if they feel uncomfortable, they could stop. And sometimes there's trust and sometimes there's not. Sometimes there's a partial payment, sometimes waiting. Um, remember that the vendor does have the option of putting a lean on the property before it's done, which will prevent refinancing or closing. So, that's one firepower that they have. But, I think as long as there's two sides and they understand and communication is the key, then that's, you know, >> that's how I run my my business. >> Let's bring this back to customuilt homes because that's more relate to that. >> So, first of all, the bank and I could I want to cross that into how you avoid disaster with a contractor. You only pay them per okay you built I don't know the first two rooms you built this room you could do what you could do what the banks do with your custom home build. >> So essentially when I build custom homes it works like this. I tell people like I actually just had a a dentist reach out to me this morning and she said she bought a building and she wants me to outfit the basement first and second floor for a dentist. >> We want to do a show on dentists because they're making so much money and we don't know what's going on. They could say you have 15 root canals and five. know that it's the number one industry that um that family offices and uh funds are purchasing up and putting together as a package. >> Dental groups. >> Dental groups and dentists and orthodontists are like the number one that that they're doing. And believe it or not, HVAC and plumbing is number two and three >> because what they do is they buy orthodontists and then they obviously can lower the overhead because they don't need >> billing. >> They don't need 40 girls doing billing and 40 offices cuz now they have 40 offices. They have five girls in the back office. They're purchasing better. >> They keep on the doctor for a year or two or three, whatever. But yeah, so family office/fun >> when I hear dentist is doing a [laughter] when I hear a dentist is hiring you to build a building. I know they're making a lot of money, >> but this dentist called me and she's like, "Oh, I don't really have plans, but I'm telling you, we could figure it out. We'll take a tape measure." I said, "I won't be able to give you a price. I won't be able to take this information and tell it to 55 people to the frame electrician, the plumber, the air conditioner. We need that real paper." So, going back to your question, so if a person wants to make sure that he's building a house and he's not going to have an issue, um, when it comes to getting a proposal, make sure you have a good space planning. Make sure you have the designer detail as much as possible and throw in items that you think you may not even want. So, if you're not sure if it's going to be a round staircase or square, put it in. If you're not sure if it's 200 spotlights or 300, put it in. And then when you go to the contractor, you get a proposal and a payment schedule. So the proposal makes sure that everything is there and the payment schedule makes sure that it it it works together with the work in place. So if he says we're going to do the foundation, so you have to give me a deposit of 10% after the foundation 10%. Just make sure that that payment schedule reflects what you're doing. So you're always even because you can't expect the contractor to lay out 100 grand for you, but you also can't pay them 200 grand up front and then they'll say, you know, prices of cement went up. >> Cuz July told me when he was building his million square foot warehouse in California, there are companies, the contractors, they tell you a price, they set the price, and I think maybe even get insurance. If the rates, if they buy insurance, if lumber goes up, they're on the hook. They're bonded. I don't know what is that. >> Yeah. So, there is when it comes >> I'm tying the two commercial, if you could, my idea here is if you follow what the commercial people do and the banks do for the big buildings and you apply those rules to residential, I think it's a I that's my guess. I've never built a custom loan. >> So, technically, it could work because technically you can go to a bank. >> You said lock you should lock the rate like you said. you should try to lock in a price >> and you do the phases just like the bank does and you're pretty safe. >> But to try to go to a a contractor, which is generally a smaller type contractor that's doing a house versus a big development, try to impose too much on them, they they just won't go for it. So, if you tell them, you know, fill out a lot of paperwork and I'm only going to reimburse you after you do the work, they're just not going to. >> Do you have any good disaster stories of customuilt homes? [laughter] Um >> because I hear so many drama stories. I'm just wondering first of all, what percent is it the G the contractor's faults versus the client? What's your guesstimate? >> Um I think there's definitely an element that things could cost more than expected. >> But if I have to guess, >> I would say that um the from my experience, the way it works is even when I give >> You're a good communicator. I think you eliminate a lot of issues more than most people. It's always managing expectations. But >> when I meet people for the first time, when I meet people for the first time, >> don't get all dramatic here. Yeah. >> Tell us what you think. What percent of the time is the contractors is the problem versus the client? >> I'm going to have to go 50/50 because I see it. I see both. >> Done. Next. >> But I think that's nuanced because it's not that it's a big problem. It could be a bunch of small problems. So number one, I come into a customer for the first time, they say, "I'm simple. I know what I want. I don't change." In 23 years of doing this and I built over a million square feet, not one time did people not change their mind. So that's where it starts. There is change orders because the way it works is you there's four words that kill every homeowner. You might as well. We're doing it already. The spindles are only 2,000. It's only four more spotlights. It's only only you might as well. So it's usually that that kills um the homeowner. And >> if they change their mind and they say just reframe this just just just they don't realize that now the contractor has to pay the same framer who he could have got it for free just another 2,000 1,000 2,000 and then rip out the plumbing and put it back and rip out the electric and put it back. So just move the closet 2 feet could be just $7,000 if it's supporting this and doing that. So that's what the customer doesn't understand. But communications, managing expectation, I find, you know, over the years, I'm not saying that I never had a run in with a customer. >> No, no drama stories, >> but nothing major. I did have one or two times that I, you know, that it became more difficult than others, but um I'm living to tell the tale, so I'm good. >> She There's three three ways I understand what what I've observed lately with construction going on. There's permits for everything. the real legal way. The buildings department, inspectors, pre-approvals, pass whatever, I don't know the terminology, full permits. Other thing I'm seeing is people are getting permits, but uh you know, they they get once they get the CFO, they rip they put the tarp around and then they rip rip down everything legally and then this and that and somehow they shmear or this whatever. And then there's people that just do the shy route with the blue tarps. that you try to make sure the neighbors are all smeared and nobody mers on them and nobody calls to you in one and do it really quickly overnight and no permits and never open the door and you tell all your maids never open the door and if there's somebody mers on me if they come two times they stop for a few days and then they look in the website the guy logs in I see him and show looking up oh they close the case they start construction again you go by the law I know I don't know if you're allowed to say this fully legal everything to the letter of the law fully illegal We're shy but emotion in the middle. >> So I'm not [laughter] going to answer this from a contractor perspective but I'll give you my observation just being a resident of uh borrow park lapish marine park cran heights etc just having observed and what people do. So the thing is like this, the city in the name of safety, in the name of money, because they do rely on this money to come in from all the fees and fines. Um, and in terms of, you know, just running a city over the last several years, they became more and more difficult and required more and more paperwork. So whereas 25 years ago you would file one plan which had the um structural the architectural the mechanical the lighting on one plan and the city looked at it for a week and you're done. Now you have to file um architectural and structural and BPP and SD1 and two and mechanical and fire alarm and sprinkler. So number one they make you file many different filings which means many expediters and many architects and many fees. So, if you want to do an extension in your house, you can easily expect to spend 20, 30, 40, 50, 70, $80,000 just on the paperwork. >> So now, if you're thinking of doing a $300,000 renovation, >> what a racket. What a racket. >> And I understand the city's perspective because they want to make sure everything is good and safe and there's a record of everything. >> But at the same time, >> we're from the government. We're here to help you. >> Yeah. But at the same token, if you're an homeowner, you live in Crown Heights, you're thinking of adding another floor to your house, and the contractor comes and says, "Okay, it's going to cost you 400,000, you're thinking long and hard, should I spend 20% of that money just on getting a permit? And because I'm getting a permit, a lot of inspections and a lot of architects, a lot of filing, and also a lot of time. It could take months to receive the permit. It could take months to sign off the permit. So that's why a lot of people I do see will take route B where they'll be like I'll save 30 50 70 80,000 I'll save time let me take a chance cuz remember they also don't have experience of what it looks like if things are not good if you take shady people if doesn't get signed off if there's no CFO if you get violations they don't think into it too much because they know about this like I know about performing heart surgery so that's why there are people that will just in the spirit of saving money or otherwise or time, they'll just like you say, put up a tarp, do the thing, try to follow the the building department. So that's why there are some people and then there are people that say, I want to do it real or I have to do it real because I'm going to sell it. I need a co, I need an old co, I want to make sure the work is not shoddy because there is a value ad because when you do permits and plans, the city comes down and inspect to make sure that it's good. So the contractor and the electrical contractor, they have to make sure they're up to code plus++ because they want to make sure. So having your paperwork and everything, it's definitely valuable, but it comes at a cost of time and money. So the people that are on the lower end and don't want to spend it or don't have an incentive because they lived there and they will live there, those people may think of the alternative. >> What are we talking about? Criminal or it's all just financial? you're doing illegal construction and the buildings department gives you a stop order and you continue like like what could how does how does the stuff work? How does it play out? So for the most part it's there's two issues to it. Um >> if someone gets hurt then it could be >> if a person gets hurt it becomes it could become a criminal issue. Again I don't know I don't speak from knowing I'm just speaking from >> from observing. So my understanding is is that um the people that don't do permits is from it it's financial and there's two issues. There's financial and then there's a logistical issue like if the building department comes gives you a violation and you want to sell your house. It could just be problematic. Sometimes the title company just hold the money in escrow and you know you'll never get it back. But sometimes people won't buy it from you because they see uh 32 violations and stop work orders and banks may not even give a mortgage on the property. So even if you say fine I'll pay now 10 2030 which by the way a lot of people do end up doing the permits because it's true they could say 50 grand now but if they get caught and then they get violations and stop work orders and they have to hire expediters and then file plans it's going to cost them the same plus. So that's why a lot of people think let me do it this way but ultimately do it the correct way. speaking to uh there's a bus that crashed into a building around the corner of my house and I was on the scene and I was talking to the buildings guy. He's like the emergency building guy and he told me there's a person in Queens that called 311 400 times this year on her neighbor because the neighbor at night makes noise. So she just said he just he was saying the craziness of 311. He says a huge amount of time was just neighbors fighting. They're angry at each other. They're trying to get back at each other. He says, "Mosia, I went inside the lady's apartment who they're calling the complaints five times. It's perfectly normal. There's no construction, nothing. He just wants LA just to get them back." So a lot of the 311 is just and of course we're following procedures that god forbid cannot show up to the but it looks it look to me they're not looking for problems. But thank God there's enough angry, jealous neighbors that are happy to call 311 on you. >> They're not that motivated. They don't get paid more. The buildings, they don't get paid more if the guy's giving them more violation. There's no bonuses that that I know of. >> There's definitely people that take advantage of people that their neighbor is a multi-millionaire and doing a lot of construction. And in Brooklyn, all the houses are attached. So, of course, there's going to be a lot of noise. Of course, there's going to be roaches and mice and rodents because of all the work that's being done. And of course, you might your quality of life might get a little bit ruined. And a lot of people tell me when they do major construction, they literally have to go and buy their neighbors. Like, how much do I need to pay you to just shut your mouth and behave and there's bad people out there and there's bad actors. Have you experienced that? >> So, I'm actually coming from one of those stories now. >> So, essentially, you are correct. We're in Brooklyn. We're sandwiched together with, you know, either you're attached to a person or you're building on your property line, which is very is right by their property line, whether their house is there or not. So, the city does mandate, especially when you do bigger type work, that you have to have a neighbors agreement or an access agreement. And there's even ways of forcing the neighbor since they don't want to do it, but you do have to pay them like rent and you have to do roof protection on their roof even if you're, you know, because you're so close. And sometimes you want to go deeper in your foundation. So, you must underpin their foundation even though it's on your side and it doesn't hurt them. Let's say they say, "Don't touch my building because you're underpinning my foundation." So, there are these issues a lot because some people are just like, "Live and let live." And some people are a little bit concerned. They're like, "What happens if So, you say here's an engineer's report. Here's a pre-construction report. Here's $5 million of insurance." And they're happy. And some people, like you say, will be like, "It's cash out time." And they'll be like, "Pay for my lawyer. Pay for my engineer. I want someone to monitor it." Which we do anyway. But then they'll say, "Give me 10, 20, 50, $100,000." So >> you run into all people, good, bad, and indifferent. >> Would you say it comes mostly from jealousy >> or concern? >> I think it comes more from fear. >> Fear, not jealous. >> Like I'm coming from a neighbor now in a project, the sweetest guy in the world. He called me and he says, "I want to make sure you're doing this roof protection." I said, "Yes, we did. I want to make sure this." Why is there a dust? Can you make sure they don't work after seven and before 6:00 and before 5? And so it comes a lot from fear. what happens if he's going to do something? What happens if he breaks something? Especially because we're attached. So, I think it comes a lot from fear and then it comes just a little bit anger like why are they hacking a whole day every day in my house and why do they get Sunday permits? That's the one day I don't work and >> could you get Sunday permits? >> Yeah, >> it's common. >> Um, it's not very common. I I I pull Sunday permits sometimes when I'm in the middle of something. >> What are the rules about Sunday permits? So there you have to have sometimes like the community board to give you a letter and you also have to uh work certain hours and it only could be let's say interior work that don't have major. So they definitely restrict it a little bit. I hardly ever take Sunday permits because I want to respect the neighbors and I don't want to work on Sunday. But once in a great while there's a need for it. So they'll give you limited time. They won't let you go throughout the job, but they'll say, "Okay, choose two weeks or choose four weeks, and you could work on those four Sundays to get what you need done." And then respect the neighbors. >> One last thing, if someone wants to get into real estate development, >> yeah, >> how much money do they have to put down versus how much could they get financing from the bank? >> 200. So the way it works when it comes to real estate development is you have to understand that besides for the money, if you don't have the experience and the knowhow, the bank won't give you a dollar. So if I came to the bank now and said, I'm doing a project. It's costing me 3 million to purchase and 7 million to do the construction. It's 10 million. Here's even five million. Give me the other five. They'll be like, show show me how to prescribe prescriptions. Like if you don't know, you don't know. if you're experienced. >> So you have to have experience or you have to attach yourself with the developer/builder. So that's number one. Number two, you have to figure okay the cost of construction is going to be 7 million. And the cost of purchase is three. So that's 10. Then you have closing cost. So that's let's say 10 a 1.5. Then you have interest carrying cost. So that's 11 12. Then you have soft cost. So that's going to be 12. So now you know your entire budget is 12 million. the bank is going to want you to have approximately 25 or 30% in the deal and they'll give you the other 70 of that. There's different ways to structure it. Like they say, you pay for the soft cost, we'll pay for the hard. You pay for the purchase 30 and we'll give you 70. But I'm just trying to make it simple. So, I would say between 25 and 30%. >> I've been speaking to some real estate finance people lately. >> Yeah. >> And they said there something about funds. When where are their like family funds or Yeah. >> the private equity, where do they come in? They put down%. No. So when people want to take a construction loan or financing for a project, you can either go to a conventional bank like Chase or Popular Bank >> or you can go to uh fund. >> Maybe they should change the name. It's Bank of Popular, but you call it Popular Bank. I think we just gave them a billion dollar idea. [laughter] >> Exactly. >> Oh, we have to mention Capital One. They just hosted us. >> Capital One just hosted us in a private box. I felt like a multi-millionaire at the Yankees. They were bringing us glacosher food like every five minutes another box was coming. By the way, if you put a if you put a gun to my head and ask me who the Yankees were playing that night, I have no idea. [laughter] I don't believe I looked at the field for even a half a second. I was just eating, smoozing, drinking, and networking the entire time. >> Do you remember? >> These are an afterthought. >> Do Do you remember the famous movie Catch Me If You Can? >> Yeah, of course. >> So, he always said Leono DiCaprio. >> Yeah. No, but no, no. Frank Abernale. I love that movie. I read the book also. >> So he had he had a good line. He says you can the Yankees always win because no one can get their eyes off the pinstripes. [laughter] >> But um >> so when do the private funds >> so the way it works is when you need money you can either go to a bank like Chase TD Bank of Papalar. >> We have to mention Capital One. Okay. >> Capital One of course capital one [laughter] or um you can go the next step up which is like funds which is like a bank but they're more expensive but they have easier terms or they'll give you a little bit more money. >> Oh for the whole financing. for the whole financing. But they are just >> the easiest way to get money is in the sat mikvah >> last s mikvah [laughter] >> and their pricing is a little bit higher or you can go hard money which is uh private lending and it's a little bit more expensive than that. But there's plus and minuses to doing both because with a bank they'll take contingency, they'll take interest reserve, they'll take this, they'll take six months to approve uh the loan whereas like you say in the s mikvah in two weeks you're out and you're good you know. [laughter] So there's there's plus and minuses and it's also relationship based. So yeah, so everyone does uh what our sponsors though. >> I love I love talking about my sponsors. We now have a company that hit the Jewish community with a storm. Like overnight, we started representing them a few weeks ago, Mishi and I, and everywhere I go, there's not a grocery store that I go into that doesn't have oak and oven loading up the shelves of the refrigerator. Mashi, how many messages do I show you a day of relatives, friends all over, proud that they've been introduced to Oaken oven? The most delicious apple b apple based drinks that are all freezing cold and delicious. Here, let's try it. Are we allowed to say that? >> Hold on. The middle one's very cold. Yeah, the lemonade one. I had it in the freezer. >> Are we allowed to say you should mix it with water or it won't be good for sales? >> Lower calorie. And I'll say that >> it's so low in calories already. This is 80. >> Well, the packaging looks great. packaging is amazing. >> I like that simplistic packaging >> and um >> they did a great I told them a hundred times the packaging is the best. >> Yeah. Know the packaging looks great. People like simple today and it looks more exotic organic. So they're doing a great job on that. [clears throat] >> Canad Canadian apples >> and it's Clappy endorsed so they're they can go public now. >> It's it's it's Canadian apples. >> Oh, Canadian apples. >> And the company that makes it had a bakery, their sister company, um Crusters. They needed a really really really high-end like apple juice and apple cider for certain baked goods and they're from Canada and they met these orchards and factories that are produced the people that that that grow the apples. So we just uh we just have to make sure it's tariff free. [laughter] >> They started making these products because they needed it for their baked goods. They introduced it to the grocery stores and it just took the amum by storm. >> Clappy gets a lot of messages. I'm not getting any of the messages. Uh maybe one cl. >> You only [snorts] get the messages when they don't like it. So that means that it's great if you're not getting the messages. >> I had Sarah's tent. My cousin got it in Sarah's tent in uh deal. No, in New Jersey. >> Oh, New Jersey. >> They have one in New Jersey. Um my sister got it a bunch of bottles in the marketplace. A friend of mine got it in Kosher Town and he sent me a picture yesterday that these two flavors mix really well. Everybody's becoming an expert on mixing. Um Shimmy Kritzky from Albany Bakery said it's flying off the shelves. I met Shashi today from Kosher Town. She said it's flying off the shelves. The most popular one is the crab apple. It's a pinkish bottle. Crab apple. Another guy stopped me in the street yesterday. He's like, "I don't understand." He says, "This is all natural." And you see the colors are different. He says, "There's other I'm not going to mention names of like the popular, you know, stuff you see in all these popular copy. There's only the popular famous brands, the Gisha brands." He says the the color of their apple juices and cers has like a uh like a chemical look like a yellow look. He's like over here it's natural how the apple was squeezed. So we love our friends at Oak and Oven and everybody should continue drinking these wonderful drinks from Oaken Oven >> see I realized food business is one thing business you didn't do yet. >> Um I don't know anything about the food business. I know how to eat the food but I'm not I'm not familiar. >> I was thinking all the things you do and I realized one thing you didn't do is food. Okay. I once invested in a sushi store uh a long time ago because I run a catering call as part of the JCC. So I felt that I had the leverage because I have all the party planners and the events. >> So I I purchased uh >> but it took its little course and I saw that it wasn't uh something to be busy with and I moved on. But that's many years ago already. >> You you made a lot of you you lost all your money or >> I didn't lose any money but it was just stagnant for a couple of months. you sold it >> cuz I bought into an existing outfit, but it was it was not going the way I wanted it. So, it it was just it made sense to just, you know, >> clap. >> Think about the CH Butcher. They turned over the meat market because they have this high high-end steakhouse kosher restaurant in Crown Heights in Brooklyn on Troy Avenue, the CH Butcher. And then their deli, their takeout, like you get their food, you know, the, you know, the meats and the chickens and the and the turkeys and the ducks and everything. My wife went today, she got a huge roast, gorgeous American Angus beef. So whether you're cooking or whether you want to have a high-end dining experience, CH Butcher has it all covered. >> On the go. >> On top of that, the on the-go, they want people to have a good product to eat when you're traveling. You say you have a home in New Jersey. You're in you're running the community council in Marine Park, the Jewish community council. You're on the go. Either you're going to eat potato chips and feel gross and disgusting, or you can have something >> four simple ingredients, >> low in fat, >> low in low in sugar or no sugar at all, but high protein. High in protein. And they have so many flavors and it's so delicious. The bill tongue and the beef jerky in every flavor. The truffle oil. I I brought some of the most popular flavors today. spicy beef. My kids love the beef traditional. We have a bunch of other flavors on the table. CH Butcher, nice people, community people, [snorts] guys. >> You know what they both You know what Shia and the Kabakas have in common? They're both business people and they're community activists. They give back. >> They're very aunt. >> Yeah. >> What about your >> How do you get around? It's all about giving back. >> How do you get around? There's only one way to get around. Unless you have a horse and buggy, I'm not sure. You got to drive. And when you need a car, you call my friends at Wheels to Lease. 40 years in the business. I'm turning 40 in a week. So my entire life, Wheels to Lease has been servicing families, multi-generational. My friend Saul Hershk, my friend uh Izzy Herman, you call them, they treat you like a mench. They find you the making model, the best price. Like I always say, nobody ever knows what the price is. They say they go into the phone call knowing that they don't want to spend more than a certain amount and the price they get is always the lowest price. They're running a deal now on the Honda Odyssey, the minivan, fully loaded leather seats. $3.99 a month. >> Wow. >> $3.99 a month. >> Postco prices. That's great. >> Call my friends. Call my friends at wheels to lease. Ask for Saul or Izzy and you will be in the greatest hands ever. Also for all shopping, all shopping when you need to buy something for your home, for your children, for a gift, for a yumptiff, the way to know you're not getting ripped off online is PZ deals. I wear it on my head. >> Do we have PZ deals for contracting or no? >> You go, you know what? I bet you anytime you need anything for a construction site, >> finishes on the finish. >> Go into PZ deals on the Apple app, on the Android app, on the desktop, put it into PZ deals. You'll have a link for cheaper. The famous joke I had, >> it's very good. And I've purchased through the PD PZ deal links that I see on these watches. >> Always always get the greatest deal. And I tell people foramide, tell your kids they're going to get $50 gift, but instead of taking them to one store, pull up the screen and say, "Have fun on PZ deals." I bet you you're going to find and you know what? They'll save so much money. They'll be able to buy multiple products instead of one. >> Clappy, I heard your mother hangs down in the corner of President Kingston lately. >> My mother has been working for many years for Parker. my wonderful friends that park here. >> Nurse practitioner. >> Nurse practitioner. She's been doing family health for over 30 years in all areas. She did many hospitals. >> If you wonder where the personality comes from of Clappy, you could come visit the park here mobile. >> Park here has crown Heights has tens of thousands of visitors for Tish Ardu Tish with long extended hours. By the way, Misha, we went to visit yesterday. Guess what? I was at my parents house last night. She ended up doing a double shift. That's how busy it was. >> Oh my gosh. >> So, there's the uh the 12 to five and then there's the >> She's not too old to do double shift club. >> My mother is the youngest don't make enough money. >> My mother is the youngest 75year-old you ever met. [laughter] She doesn't look a day older than 40. >> When you work and you work and it keeps you young. It's true. When people end up retiring because they have that dream, a few days pass, they feel worthless and they don't know what to do. And >> my parents both in the mid-upper 70s, they're both working full-time. Barak Hashem, they're happy. They're successful. >> Are they proud of you talking? >> I would imagine. Yeah. Barak Hashem. >> So, park here. I strongly recommend and suggest people for all their medical needs throughout the entire Brooklyn visit a park here medical center. My friend Yiddi will make sure my friend Barl works there. My friend Yiddi owns the place. You're going to be in great hands. All their medical staff are top of the line. >> I only want to see your mother. That's the only thing. So, can you just put it on >> for the Crown Heights medical truck for the month of Tishway? My mother is one of the medical providers but I assure you anybody that's working in park here is a top medical provider >> and it's a big thing you know every 10 20 years people try to do something else for pinosa ot nurse practitioner is like the hot thing for the last few years >> really >> you know when my mother became an RN in 1994 she went by the way she went back to to school later on in life it's a whole podcast you did see that podcast >> I'm a big clappy and frank uh right then. >> So when she went she got an RN in ' 94. She started doing neonatal intensive care etc. She worked for many years. She got a grant whatever she went back to get her FNP when she became a family nurse practitioner in 1998 or 1999. I was telling people they had no idea what it was. >> 60 Minutes ran an episode around then and that helped people started understanding it. Today anybody who say family nurse practitioner it's like they know exactly what it is. >> What about cows clappy? If they don't make it to the park here booth on time, [laughter] what happens? Moving on. Just to make just to be clear in case you have people that'll say kadesh for you. >> Oh, >> another corporate sponsor of the show is say kadesades.com. Now, I want to explain what say kadesh is. People think it's for a guy that's not that that that wasn't religious and that doesn't have somebody to say kadesh. Say kadesh is an amazing amazing service. Let's say you have a loved one that left no children and you don't know if you're going to say kadesh for the whole 11 months. That's a commitment three times a day for 11 months. You go to say kadesh.com. You sign up for a minimal fee and they have somebody say kadesh every single day with Mishnayas with mentioning the name of the nishama. >> Pricing start at >> pricing starts well for one time for one yard site for a day of a yard site. If you're going to be in China you're not going to have a minion $36. If you want to say kish for the entire year, it's like what is it? 250. >> If you want to have a kadesh for the whole year and for every year on the art sites for eternity, it's like 375. >> Oh wow. That's >> But you got to say kadesh.com. They have four different options. Very affordable. It goes to a nonforprofit. It goes to stucka. >> We they'll tell you the name of the r that's saying kadesh for you every single day for your loved one. The ultimate gift for a loved one is that they say kadesh for the nama at my friends at saycadesh.com. >> That's beautiful and well worth it. I just have to interrupt you for one minute. So there's a fellow not so religious. His father passed away and he starts sitting chev after the second day. He's like it's not for me. I can't do this for seven days. So he calls someone and he pays him to sit sha for him. And then he calls his rabbi and he says now that someone's sitting sha for me do I have to be [laughter] to [laughter] >> um insurance. >> Oh, another wonderful corporate sponsor. >> Amazing. >> If let's say you you're doing a grounded construction, you need >> any type of construction, any home, any building, any parking lot, you need insurance. >> Yes, >> it everybody's buying the product. It's are you paying the right price and are you getting the right service? The only brand for property and casualty insurance that I'm telling people alive I take a is Brooklyn brokerage. >> How many you using Brooklyn brokerage for? >> I'm using Brooklyn brokerage for my show for minimum 10 years probably longer but I don't remember beforehand what if the guy that I was renting from he also had during the week a but whatever I know that I'm paying the premium. How do you reach >> Brooklyn brokerage? You Google it. Their phone number, their hours, their things. I stopped giving phone numbers because people call and they want to speak to this guy and that guy. Brooklyn brokerage. They're on Troy Avenue in Brooklyn. I know people personally that own hundreds of buildings and dozens of parking lots throughout the tri-state area. >> All go to Brooklyn brokerage. >> That's a real >> You know, when I came when I came when I came to meet them after we negotiated the deal, I came to meet them. The owner couldn't come out to speak to me. He had a kusa with the rubber of his sh. He was sitting up learning in his office. >> Brooklyn brokerage, >> you're dealing with your shimmayams that make sure you get the right coverage at the right price. >> I think we covered everyone. Oh no, the the Tyra and the AI. >> Yeah. >> CL, we want to talk about our Torah here. >> Everybody knows we're a couple of days away from Sim Tyra. >> Now the children are ravenu. We got the Torah because of the children, but you don't want to give your child a safe terror to hold. God forbid they drop it. But we're going to be fasting for 40 days, you know, losing weight. You know, we have a lifime say feta 40 in tall. >> Oh, wow. >> Light, but it feels good and fluffy. This company, thejewish depot.com, has this seatra for sale. $75. >> Can it double as a pillow? >> Yes. Very comfortable. >> So, you just don't want to sleep on the Torah, right? [laughter] And all the kids when they give Akafus every Akafa they could call up a child for Akafa and they could stand it and they could dance with it and they could hold it. It's a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful gift. It's a beautiful thing to have in every Jewish home. Yeah. >> The way they buy it is the Jewish depot.com. >> They ship it nationwide. >> They ship it nationwide. And I would call I would do it now. Right when you watch the show, do it now. You want to make sure you get it on time for some. Don't wait. >> Clap. Just know that if you want to hold the tire in SH single tire, they charge a lot of money and you don't get to keep the tire. So, if you just buy this tire for your kid, it's I'm just saying the numbers. Uh I'm not here to the Jewish >> you're a Gabul. I don't know if you like politics. I'm the president. There's a guy. I want to over here. >> You're the president. I don't I don't know if you want me to say that it's cheaper than you know buying this, but I'm just the jeweed depot.com. Get your safeter. I think riding a saver today cost like 100k. >> It's a very affordable option. >> I actually uh borrowed this from a a farmer store in Crown Heights and then I eventually just bought it cuz I was holding a promotion. I just bought it myself. >> So this one I actually own cheaper than mural Torah. >> Now writer say [laughter] now you want to kill your father's. >> We are also sponsored by next self.ai. >> Yeah. a blog spot with philosophy and uh Jewish concepts brought out written really really well. It's a wonderful blog Rutstein. >> Nafali Rutstein who um >> you want to do a quick read one of the >> the greatest spiritual battle is not between belief and unbelief. It's between control and relationships. You can transform guilt and worry about the past into love by accepting more responsibility. Today he takesidic concepts and yiddes and he brings it into easy ways. He has essays onidis Facebook and kambawa and zar next self.ai. That's correct. Next self.ai >> and um go on your spiritual journey. Thank you so much for sponsoring the Clappy and Frank podcast. She you're a man of many colors. construction, business shows, Jewish community center in Marine Park, a singer. When you were 15 years old, I'm not gonna say when you were four years old, you sell super snacks out of your locker. I mean, everybody says that story. When [laughter] you were 15 years old, where did you see yourself being today at 48 years old? >> It's a very good question. The answer is I did not think into it too much. Everything that Bram happened in my life just was you try to learn or unfortunately learn from your mistakes. Seize an opportunity. the opportunities come and um you know I didn't have anything planned. I'm not saying that you know when when I give direction to younger people I tell them to do it differently than I did it because you can either learn from your own mistakes or you can learn from other people's mistakes. I unfortunately learned from my own mistakes but it's you know it was a Harvard education of the real world. So, uh, I went through that Harvard education and it was painful at some points and it was amazing at others, but, uh, it, you know, makes you stronger. >> You grew up in the 80s in the Bronx. >> I grew up in the Bronx and then in Burough Park. >> You moved to Burough Park at about 15 years old. >> Um, 13, but I started going to Burough Parkhiva while living in the Bronx and commuting commuting. >> Which? So when I lived in the Bronx, I first went to Kav in the upper west side of Manhattan because the demise of the Bronx was that there were no yeshivas left. And then when I came to bar park, I went to Bub of Yeshiva. So I'm aid and a litak all in one. >> 48 or 45. >> Well, then there was no 4845. >> You picked the team now or you're you >> I've been I've been out of the fold. I I'm an Ebub of BV, but I've been out of the fold for some 30 years now. So I'm I know the people. I'm close to them, but uh I'm not I'm not part I'm not you know. >> So you go to Bab through high school? >> Yep. Straight up until I got married. >> Went to learn. >> My mother did not let me go to because she never went to in her life and she was always hearing bombs. And I said, "Ma, I really want to go to learn in Israel." She said, "You know what? Let's go into the bubba. If he says you can go, I'll be matter." >> Yeah. of it. So we go into the Reba and as soon as he sees them come, we came in, he asked the Gaba to bring a seat for my mother so she could sit down and I stood. I knew I lost the game right there [laughter] cuz you know he offers my mother a seat and tell and I stand and then he tells me how is it going in yeshiva. I said I'm learning well and my mother says you know I'm afraid Iraq war was just you know we just had the Iraq war and '92. >> Yeah. So the record was a little bit before but she's like Scuds a missile bombing on buses Sabaru I. So the Reb turns to me and says you know people that have a problem they need to find new solutions but if you're learning well and you have friends here you don't necessarily have to go look somewhere else so practical. >> So you can go for you know go to visit Israel come back and that's what I did when the Reba made a wedding with the vision in Tel Aiv. went to the wedding, I came back and I never learned in Israel until I got married at the old age of like uh 21ish. [laughter] >> Well, you went to Kyoa when I was strong. >> Nope. So, I stayed learning in Kyoa for about a year and a half in Burough Park after I was m right after I got married. And then uh I got I had to get into the reality of uh paying rent. >> So, so what was your first job? So, at first I purchased for $5,000 a gift business, custom gifts where people would send you their picture and you would put it on vases and mouse pads and those type of things. And what I did is I had people, younger people won't know what I'm talking about, but there used to be something called Photoshops where people would bring something called a uh uh they would have something called a camera with developable film which that you develop and you would pay $10 and develop 24 or 36 pictures. And what I did is I made inserts that all the stores when you took out your photos, there was an insert and it says, "Do you want any of your photos on a mouse pad or a coffee mug or a vase?" And if they did, then they would leave that picture and they would pay another, let's say, $15 for a mouse pad. And then I would have someone go twice a week to all 100 stores, pick up all these, do it, and then every >> Do you remember what year this is? Just to date yourself. >> This was 1999. Uh 2000. >> 2000. 26 years ago. Getting people when they develop a rom to get it on a mouse pad or a mug or a >> And I took my daughter who had just been born. She was a few months old. So she was the poster child to show a cute baby. And then on the back all the options. So >> what was the name of the company? >> Happy Times. >> So I did it with 108 Photoshops and I also did it with stores in the mall and I also did it on the beach on Coney Island Beach with a lot of those stores that are on the beach. >> You own the machines that put it onto the mouse pad or vase you subcontracted that. >> No. So I own the machines. >> Wow. >> And all the machines together were 5,000 bucks. >> So I purchased there was a fellow who was maturing into the next stage of his life. So he gave me a computer. I had not ever used a computer because it wasn't really a thing. You know, I got a thousand free hours on AOL, but other than that, there was no such a thing as uh um internet. It was just coming out. You know, someone mentioned to me Yahoo, Google. I don't know what they were talking about, but um I he told me, "I have a few machines and I have a customer." I remember was the big customer in Williamsburg then. And he said, "I have this gift business. Um I want out here's a computer. Here's two machines that make the products because uh you only need really two machines. You know, the one that does mugs is one type and then the t-shirts and the, you know, the mouse pads and it's a different machine. >> The heat press, >> the heat press. And then I had another machine for glazing uh ceramic type. So, there were three in total. I bought one, got two, I got the computer, I got a customer base. So, for $5,000, I was I was in and it even came with brochures. So, I was in business uh the next day. I recouped my 5,000 very quickly. And then I matured from that into doing promotional products, advertising, graphics. I opened like a whole agency on Fort Hamilton Parkway in Burough Park, a storefront. And then I had the epiphany in 2004. I said, when a person wants to make money in business, they have to think like we all have to think 5 10 years out. How many people in this business make a million dollars? If the answer is is that I have to be from the top 2% of my industry, then I know that it's so difficult to get there. I'm probably wasting my time. >> It's not scalable this business getting into 300 stores. Like what would have it been to make a million dollar a year business? >> So instead of figuring out the numbers, I said, let's look at all the people doing this. How many people made real money? If the answer is very few, what's the probability of me being from the top 10%? Right? So, it's true that the people that do promotional products for Mercedes and Chase Bank and they do, you know, for the government, maybe they make the money and they're that 10%. But it doesn't seem to me that let's say I only do from the top 50 percentile. That means I'll never make money. So, I have to start thinking what industry should I choose? I'm old. I'm 24 years old already, right? And I had >> Who gave you who gave you such a good business mind? What was your father growing up? What was >> My father was a RV, a cipher, and an author of over 40 books. and he was like a sadic. He passed away when I was six years old. >> So terrible. >> I didn't Yeah. So I didn't grow up in the Rabanasifer trajectory. But um so that was the epiphany that I had. >> But you lost your father at six years old. Did your did did your mother struggle a lot with parnasa? Like >> so my father was the rabbul and we had a house and uh people were good to us including Bab. I ran on a free scholarship as long as it was needed, including my brothers. We're one of we were eight and my mother was >> eight children, >> right? My mother was in her 30s. But Barashem it worked out and I had a fantastic experience in yeshiva and other and I'm saying throughout and my mother eventually remarried and had another kid also and you know this is as they say old news >> but what I'm saying is that it wasn't like the business drive that at 24 years old but you were making money doing it but >> I was making money but I was like any 24 year old hungry and thank god I had the epiphany of thinking what's that next step so I said you know when I think Jewish I think nursing homes, real estate, construction, maybe if you have a big insurance agency, uh if you own apartment buildings. So, I was trying to think in what industry can I pivot to that even if I make it from the middle 50% and I'm not the top tier, I could still make an honorable living or maybe even do very well. So, I decided that construction, flipping houses, that's where the only thing is I knew nothing about it. So, I started flipping houses in Marine Park, which ultimately I ended up keeping one of them and moving into it. Um, but I I bought a house and >> Wait a second. You for five grand. You said you were in business and operating the next day. For five grand buying homes, you're not buying anything, >> right? So, then it was a little bit easier. The way it worked then is you were able to get 90% on a residential home and um you put down 10%. So, and the houses were cheaper then. And so I came to Marine Park. The average house was selling in the threes. So I needed to come up with about $30,000 and I got a 90% uh mortgage and they would even let you sometimes get a home equity for the renovation. And there happens to be a 203 loan which you can actually buy a house and it comes with a construction loan attached to it. So you can buy the house and do the construction and they give you money based on the future appraised value. So you can still do it today right now. So if let's say you buy a house for 700 but everyone else is on the block is worth5 then the bank says one minute if every house looking like this at the end will be 15. Let's say we'll give you one two. So here's 750 towards the house and here's the rest for construction. They also break it up how they give it to you to make sure it gets done because they know that it's going to appraise and you could refinance or not even refinance. They'll keep that loan on the book for the one two. So that's really the model that I did today. they require a little bit more. So, I put I had $30,000 saved up of working for that four years or so, not much more. And I hired a contractor, but I did one thing because I wanted to really learn the business. I told the contractor, I work, but I'm going to come here every morning from 7:00 to 9:30 and then again from like 3:00 to 5:00. If you need material, send me to the lumber yard cuz I don't know what a 2x4 is. I don't know what a nail versus a screw is. I don't know if you do electric before sheetrock. So by me going to the store and asking can I have a 2x4 or can I have a piece of dense glass and see what comes out from the back I started learning that way. So for two years I did that and [snorts] then I would go to the job and ask questions for at least an hour a day. What is underpinning? Why are you breaking it? What do you do first? And that's how as I was doing construction I was still holding on to the business and I was learning. you were doing the mugs and the keychains and then the t-shirts while you were learning the 2x4s in the lumber yard and the construction loan on job training >> and over a 2 three year period and I started understanding more to construction I slowly went into a lot of the fix and flips and then one day I get an offer to buy a lot in borrow park a 40 by 100 lot for $1.2 million I couldn't even like think like I couldn't even calculate that high you know I'm buying houses that are 300 you're putting down 30 and 1.2 too. I said I again I said I see people building developments in Borrow Park and they make money. They're building condos. I'm going to do it. So I called a friend. I borrowed. >> Until now you had no partners. >> I had one I had no partners and then I had a partner because we started fixing and flipping more. So I needed more cash, more hands-on. You know when you do four and five and six of them you need. So I did and then I get this offer to buy a development in Borrow Park for 1.2 2 million, which today is trivial because we know the prices there are much higher. But then in 2002, 3, four, five, six, four. It was um it was pretty uh it was pretty expensive then. So I called someone who actually lent me $250,000 and they wanted a partnership >> in this property >> in this property and and put down the deposit. I couldn't sleep a whole night. $250,000 1.2 2 million plus you're going to spend another million or two million. I didn't even know like I really learned from making it up as I go based on the concept 40 by 100. I see everyone does 40 by 100s condos. I see everyone does condos and you know and I I had a partner at the time who knew construction very well. So I relied on his skill set because I didn't know construction that well. I knew like basement construction renovation but not like new building type construction. And that's how I slowly got into the space. Do you raise money now for your deals or you do everything yourself? >> Um, not really. >> You don't raise money. You do all your development yourself. >> So, either I do development for me or there will be other people that own developments and we'll say, you know, uh, Shia, can you develop and build it for me and then it's just a feebased structure. >> You're the contractor. >> So, I'll be the developer and then I'll be the builder and or whatever else is needed. So, if it's tying it to the sales or if it's um dealing with uh other soft costs like dealing with their condo books and dealing with uh their expediters or or otherwise. >> So, that's what happened with that construction site. You built condos. >> So, I built condos. >> How many condos on that 40 by 100? >> I built six, but two four of them were duplexes. So, the first and basement went together and then the third and fourth went together. So it ended up uh being, you know, first and basement, second, third and fourth, and the other side of it because each one was 20. >> Any lawsuits or no? >> What? >> Any lawsuits on that deal? >> No lawsuits. It worked out beautifully and it was extremely profitable because the market kept on going up. So even if I made a mistake in the numbers, by the time I was done a year and a half later and everything was much more expensive, it happened to have been that deal that deal happened to have been a very good one. But subsequently I built much more and then 2008 came which was not my friend. A lot of your audience is younger may not remember 2008 but it wasn't my friend. >> Housing market completely crashed >> and there were just problems in all different directions and uh thank god we made it out alive and uh because of that I stopped doing development for about 10 years but I stayed in the construction and then slowly you know time heals and you move on and you start again. Thank god I've been doing it now for a long time. >> So what was the most you lost on a deal? >> So >> 08. >> It's a hard question to answer because you know there are different dynamics but I remember in 2008 I was thinking wow look at this guy. He worked in construction and he's out of a job so he has zero dollars. I wish I had zero because I'm like three million down. [snorts] So I'm not like at zero. th like 3 million down because I owe the bank money and I don't see how my finishing or sellout will will work on this deal. It was it was two deals in particular. But um but thank God that the banks had the same problem that I had because I had the financial issue in 2008. But the banks also had bad debt on their books and they can't run bad debt forever and they have shareholders. So they also came back to the table and they said, "You know what? we're going to sell the notes for 60 cents or we're going to make it this deal or we'll give you more money just finished. So the banks were in the mood of working with people. So again, many different scenarios of how they did it, but I'm just saying that they were open to it and good and bad things happened like the FDI took a lot of banks away from banks and gave it to other people at cheaper prices. So they were willing to negotiate because they paid much less. Other banks were tough because they paid much less. They didn't care. They'll fight you until the end. So it's very interesting. The whole dynamic was like interesting from 2008 until 2010. But thank God it fell away so quickly that in 201213 people were doing development like like no tomorrow again. Bushwick beds died crown heights it was just and I'm thinking look what just happened but you know >> you think you should have came back in ear earlier or no >> when I saw 2012 134 I didn't want to do it and people were doing it and they were successful at it. I was thinking should I jump back in? Should I jump back? Nah. And I just said, you know what? Let me be happy. I'll do construction and I won't do the development. >> You won't take the risk. >> Then in about 2019, I woke up >> back into the risk >> and I said, I'll go back in, but I'll try but I try to be even share like I do some of my own and I do some of other so I have cash flow and I I try to be uh you know uh I try to be low, you know, because you need cash flow for these things, you know. >> So >> there's no upside in construction, right? You just do the job, they pay you and you walk away. >> Correct. So construction is a way of making money and running an operation, but the long-term the long-term trajectory when you do construction should be the real estate because that's kind of like where you want to >> that's why I told Clappy right now our show only makes money if we sit here and we talk but if we start selling products like our coffee we get some equity. So not used to the equity >> the equity uh involvement but it's more like development where you are >> I mean that's with a huge huge huge um kosher product chain you know they sell a lot of kosher products distributor and >> distributor yesterday >> and they they seem very excited about our coffee. >> Yes. So that's some good news. So, I'm I'm I'm uh bringing my background in beverage and using You know what's I had an interesting Was it yesterday the guy walks over like Mushy I'm so impressed you're all through all your ups and downs and then you keep on coming and fighting. I said, "I don't understand. I was in the beverage world for 4 years, and now that I have a show, half or more of my sponsors are food brands and companies and distributors that I've done business with when I was very active in beverage when I had my company and now I'm just rolling it into the As long as you didn't steal, rob your past relationships, it's just, you know, you moving on to the next and you bring them along." I said, "It's nothing, right? >> It wasn't a down. It just I'm building up my network. So, here here's the network. this guy. Every single every single sponsor you see now on the table are all people who I've deal done business with in my past beverage life. Well, I'm still working on new beverage. It's I didn't give it up yet. But the coffee came from one of the distributors that I the coffee brand came from one of my people who I asked him to distribute my drink who did not work out. But once we became we got a media following and presence, he really he loves our show and he believed in us and he said, "I would love to do a a bean coffee deal with you." >> I remember you had a great beverage and I know that you know the industry beverage. I I think I don't know much about food but they say beverage is one of the hardest categories. >> I always heard >> but if you make it like poppies and you get sold to Pepsi so maybe >> the $3 billion the >> $3 billion but it's all about the angle I find. You know I see a lot of food now on Tik Tok shop Instagram. So, I see a lot of people are going that direction because everyone is competing for shelf space and you have sliding fees and you have other related issues when it comes to food and beverage or shelf space. So, I don't know about it. I know that it's a little but you seem very capable. So, hopefully you'll break in the market, go public soon. >> So, I want to tell our audience have an exit. No matter where you are in your journey, as long as your men through your ups and your downs, all you're doing in life is just building and building and your like, you know, the snowball. You roll a snowball, it just keeps getting bigger. Your audience, your relationship, like I know Shia for probably 8 10 years already. And I never made any money with him. But here we are 10 years later. [laughter] >> My grandfather would say, "Don't try to make money because they'll put you in jail. You try to earn money." [laughter] And here we have the great value of brings the one of the most renaissance diverse from people in the world. I'm going to say how many guys you know that are >> he wears more hats than anybody else. >> Trade show owner singer. You put out how many albums? >> I put out two albums and about 20 singles. >> It's just so funny that two week two weeks ago we had no because you had it's earring but two weeks ago we had on Shanovski. He was a beautiful beautiful voice and a great personality. Um, yeah. [sighs] >> People say it's one of the most off the rail shows we ever did. >> That's crazy. So, the guy at it last night told me it's Off the Rails. He's like, "I can't get enough of it." [laughter] He's like, "It's so unhinged. Bring me more Unhinged." >> Let me ask you, the Marine Park Jewish Center. >> Yeah. >> It's Is that what it's called? Marine Park Jewish. >> Park JCC. >> JCC. So, I grew up in Crown Heights. There's always been a Crown Heights Jewish Community Council. >> Oh, listen. Clappy. Off the record. Someone told me she that Shia Rubenstein is looking to sponsor for Clappy to leave Crown Heights for a day just to see that there's other from people in the world. Is that true? >> Yes. >> Toi maybe. [laughter] >> He said he was shocked. People our audience outside of Crown Eyes sometimes a little surprised. I grew up in Flappish. I lived there for 28 years. So my my kedi I lived on the corn I lived on Foster and East. So it's right next to Bar Park, Flappish, Midwood, Kensington. So flappy nose kaashem [laughter] so the rebate and you told me before that you have labab as your cousins >> I do >> hold on a second let's get into more could you please elaborate what you meant that clappy should maybe broaden this horizon could you please lean into that please >> can you please explain what you meant >> I have selective amnesia so I'm not sure [laughter] that I remember >> first of all you have to remember I I wasn't only born and bred in Crown Heights I was born in I was literally born in Crown Heights interfaith the corner of um Atlantic and Albany me and I looked on a map. It's actually Crown Heights. I was born in Crown Heights. My whole my whole life I was in Crown Heights. [snorts] >> Talking about Marine Park Chase Park. >> He didn't He never been to She's four years old. He never been to Payic. First time, right? >> First time in Pic was two weeks ago. >> Yes. It's a lot of first. He was in the B&H cubicle and he lived in Crown Heights. Kabad is even though Schlami Simons from Pivot says that Kabat is the most diverse and most worldly, they're worldly outside the world. They know nothing about the world. >> It's true. If you especially in I grew up I went to day camp I went to day camp. So in the summers even though they went to Bashiva OA Parkway in my summers >> I do a lot of business with uh one individual a Kabad fellow he runs a very big company he's fantastic and I was speaking to a Kabad person and mentioned his name he's like no he's not really kabad because he grew up in Toronto and he his in-laws live in borrow park so he's not he doesn't qualify he hasn't been like you know in the boondocks or kabad >> but I actually looked at myself as being a little bit out of kabad my mother went to shfold basako her whole life. >> Your parents >> never never spent a day. >> Also, Clappy now went to he's in collectible business now and he sells to everyone. So, he started to learn that something called Bubb collectibles to all the you know you know he only knows the real the actually have value. So if if you if you feel he's not so uh well uh rounded it's because whatever gull you know has no value in the collectible market >> which it reflects I really I was thinking recently I said what does the collectible market reflect if you really want to know which is the most strong and the most successful just look there's no real way to analyze the data but if you look at the auction records and see which and which is doing well you know that is doing well true or with all these auctions have gone off the rails. I have a crazy story. >> I'm responsible by the way. I am responsible for a lot of it. >> Yeah, >> I I I don't know if it's good or bad, but I do take responsibility. When I came into the market, there were many many many many products that had a regular auction value. Certain letters from certain gay were regularly a thousand. Certain savviads from certain were regular books they signed were regular. >> She didn't want to say anything. Yeah. And now, [laughter] and now they're going for double and triple. And I'll tell you why. >> Cuz I took cuz cuz there was a bunch of old guys, 40, 50, 70 year old guys. A bunch of guys in the 40y old. >> No, bunch [laughter] of guys that did things their way. I took these things that I was getting from people in their backyards, you know, their father died, they had it, whatever. I was taking my logo, stamping it on, putting up a nice message, and just spreading it on to a million WhatsApp groups. People were calling me and they're like, "Oh, I see you have like my competitors were doing it for 30 years." You know what was the most surprising thing and now the records are crazy. >> But today became even more because years ago, I remember in in 2001, there was a fellow in Belgium. He would go from town to town. He would have all these different things and sell it, you know, with and there would be individual buyers, but it was so labor intensive to go around the world. Today you advertise an ammy mishbaka. You put a a website or clapia and Frank. You put a a website with a live auction. People around the world can access it in a minute. Now you have 2,000 people trying to get the same, you know, like >> that's correct. >> I remember someone offered me Ramosa Fining Saviad for $600 of Schlay Makluga a page for $800. Today you go on to these g what is ginazm you know these sell for 5 20 50,000. What was the most surprising thing that Clappy said that you were shocked you didn't know about the belt? Tell us one thing. >> I don't remember because I listen I do listen to your podcast but I don't remember. >> One thing I told you you told yesterday. >> I have to tell you a crazy story about >> You don't want to say we need some ratings here. Yeah. >> Tell us what's the craziest thing Clappy said you were shocked they didn't know that every guy would know but would probably not know. >> I really don't know but when it comes to me I'll let you know. >> You'll message us. Okay. [laughter] >> Okay. >> I'm trying to spice you up. He's so He's so like professional. We have to >> No. [laughter] Okay. I'm I'm loosened up. It's just that uh But you were asking me about Marine Park JCC. >> You about to say something? >> Yeah. So, I was going to say we're talking about like Sabiad. So, I don't know if I should mention the name of the RV, but I spoke to a fellow uh Aabai. He tells me I I met him out coming out of the Park House Hotel on 12th Avenue, 48th Street Park. >> Sure. >> So, he tells me I'm going to tell you a story. This is going back a couple years ago, but don't repeat it. He says, "I'm coming from the parkas hotel now." A very wealthy guy bought not aiad, but he bought a patchkill >> a pkville >> from the vagun AGAINST THE >> WHOA. I WANT THAT. >> They had the pashkavville and they signed it from the vagun and then they plastered it on all the city original or a copy of it. >> So this was an original. >> Whoa. >> And this fellow buys it at whatever auction. At the time there weren't any auctions. This is going back a while ago. Um this was about in 2002 2003. So he bought it through a dealer. Actually I know the dealer was actually from Belgium who was the dealer and he and he comes to the hotel uh in Burough Park because there was a RV from Isis again I don't know if I should mention the name but he was a very well-known RV who we all know today. He's an amazing person by the way. He comes and he shows it to this RV and he says wow rabbi I paid I don't know $20,000. Take a look. this the Rev looks at him and says it is history but it's like painful history and the last thing we need is for everyone to start seeing this now again fox is just not going to go in the right direction like it's going to say wow the villag he said do me a favor let's go in the backyard and burn it together and he's like rabbi I just paid 25 grand he's like you care about cli you care about 25 grand and he convinced the guy and he burnt it in the backyard and as he finished is burning. The Gabby comes out in front of the park house, meets me and tells me the story. >> Isn't that an interesting story? It was >> It was It was you know, uh what do they say? It was like Cli over a few bucks. >> On that topic, what's the current what do you brand yourself? You went to Buff. Like what's your brand? >> Your kids resumes. What is it? I would consider myself flatbush like you know I it's funny as a I always dash but uh I personally but I I mainstream flatbush >> what's a current what does it mean mainstream flap push in Berlin what's mainstream my kids go to in flatbush and my kids go to the bisakov msurus bisakov and flatbush mainream I just have you know I have that haish background and I have the American from the Bronx background so when I speak English I don't I don't sound like I'm from the hood. >> What's the current view of the yeshiva world ofum on that topic? >> Yeshiva world ofidum. >> Yeah. Like all these bells are all these people move to Lakewood. What's that dynamic like? >> Is it all love or >> So it's interesting because I I I live part time in in the Lakewood area. So I find that I happen to love theim of Lakewood because they have the American and the way of you know the American culture because they grew up with Lakewood but they also have that realish andish and Yiddish because they went to Sapmer and Rak. So they have a great balance of the realum. So I happen to like that flavor >> that general view like a litfish let's use that term loosely flappish litfish. What's their view of? They like them. They think they're too firm. They're not firm enough. I think everybody in life thinks this goes for reform. Everybody because everybody is we're all brought up in our way. We always think whoever's to the right of us is a and whoever is the left of us is a [laughter] >> So I think if you're going to go to a uh modern Orthodox and you're going to say, he'll say fanatic. And you'll say, "What about reformed Jews?" Goyam. you go to Satma, they'll say, you know, these litfox go and so I think everyone is going to say because that's how we're just conditioned as people unless we're more of we're more uh open-minded. >> I actually genuinely believe that a lot of people should stay exactly the way they are. >> Yeah, I think Panama everybody different. >> I think all colors I love I love theum I love the lit facts. >> You think that I love the modern orthodox. I think everybody you're not answering the question. I even love the labage even. Okay, perfect. On to the next question >> because they're [laughter] a little bit of everything there and lit and reform all at the same time. >> The closest thing to Judaism. >> I went I went this Rashana to Kabad to Davazin. The parking lot was full when I came and empty when I left. [laughter] >> Where was it? You don't have to say you don't have to say in uh this year Jackson, New Jersey. Last year Boon Beach, Florida. And many years ago I was in Labavich and Ocean Parkway in the yeshiva for seven years. So I have a little uh experience. >> There's a there's there's some shift. I grew up in Flavish when I grew up in Flavish >> there. Let's just say there's no love for Kabad 40 uh 35 years ago. >> What's the that's you know Kensington Flappish. What do you think it is today? >> I think we became definitely more of a melting pot. I think there's much more tolerance. I think that the world counts on Kabad when they go on vacation today. And we live in an Instagram online world and Kabad has grown from when I was a kid. They said, "Oh, there's 1500 and 2,000 and Kabad houses today. There's probably 56 thousand of them." >> It sounds right. >> So, you know, it became like a real thing. >> They're evil. >> No. And uh is it's good because you get that hish also. You get >> You were talking about the different you have. So you also dabbad when you go to daves. >> So I dare ashkazar with an Israeli twist modern Orthodox. I've dominated young Israels for many years and I can put on my talis. I could do and you won't know if I'm a sat or if I'm a young Israel because I've been doing this for so long. >> The first time we had on a musical guy almost a year ago, Mishi asked the guy if he could sing a little bit. And since then, if somebody's m musically talented or creative, we have this new minute where we asked the guy to sing. We're between Rashashana and Yam Kipper. Today we're filming today on the labrea's mother's yard site. That was actually >> I went to I went to Herzian today. >> Did you compose any songs here or just No, we're both >> I co-composed uh some songs with uh that means I wrote songs together with uh one with Yity Waldner with Bar. Yeah, a nice way of rich guys trying to say he's creative, but really the guy other guy composer or you actually >> I'm not a big composer. I did rely on the Yi Greens and the Yity Walders of the world and the uh a lot, you know, all the people that you know. >> But once in a while I have a a burst of inspiration or the truth is like I made a song for my father called Window in Heaven. It did very well. It got a couple hundred thousand views on uh on YouTube about 300,000. >> It's pretty good. So I knew exactly what the message was, what I wanted it to sound like. So I went to Yi Walner. I said, "This is what I want to sound. I'm not the composer, but this is exactly how part A, part B, chorus. This is a style of that type of song." So I was very as direct as possible. And then I wrote the words and I went to Nahmed Seltzer who writes the books and I said, "Here are the words. Make it professional." So I'm not going to say that I fully made it, but if I wrote the words and I gave direction of the song and You didn't just turn the button oven on. >> I didn't. Yeah. I didn't say just make me a song and I'll let you know if it's >> if it looks like a chicken, quacks like a chicken, it tastes like a chicken, it's a chicken. >> They made it, but I had some involvement, if you will. >> You know, when people the men say they they did the barbecue, then you find the wife prepared everything. >> Exactly. >> I'm just We want to hear something from the >> [music] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. If I would have warmed up, it would have been that was on teaser, you know. Do you on the music thing? Do you are you act you sing at weddings or it's just a pure? >> I don't sing at weddings. I wish I did but I love it but I just don't have the time. >> But I've had very interesting opportunities. I gave a lot of concerts. So I've done many concerts with uh God basis and blacks Alex Claire um and others. I uh >> you didn't make it to h yet right. >> Well I didn't get I didn't make it to h. The last singer also didn't make it happen. >> I sang for Bibby Netanyahu >> just to for transparency purposes. He wasn't prime minister at that specific time before and after. >> Look at transparent clap. >> But I did [laughter] sing for I sang for Pope John Paul II in Rome in his >> that's already >> that's already kabad very controversial. >> We're not no comment [laughter] even though >> we don't try that at home. >> Even though people lick would think we're Christian but that even that there is a line we draw. No, but I I went as a Jewish representation with Rabbi Benjamin BL from >> I I gave a concert I gave concerts with >> You ever got paid to sing at a concert? >> Did I get paid to sing at a concert? >> Yeah. >> I don't know. Some people pay young and up and coming, you'll be the filler or the opener. So, you'll do it for free. >> Okay. >> Um but then eventually once you uh make it like one step up. >> What's your hit song? What's your any song >> in English? I have a great song called Window in Heaven. >> That's the 300,000 one. >> That's the 300. I have about 10 videos that have over 300,000 >> recent or like 10 years. >> Every year I put out one or two videos for the last >> 300,000. You pay or it's all organic? >> No, it's uh I pay to No, I'm just kidding. It's it's organic. >> All organic. Okay. I'm just >> If it's two years, maybe I'll know it. Give me a little taste of that. That window one, >> but I know you were there the whole time [singing] looking down. >> That one I know. >> Yeah. It's a story. It's the song about my father. that even though he wasn't here, I built him around me at, you know, when I was bar mitzvah at my wedding and when my son was born who was named after him, >> but it resonated with people so much because everyone has a parent or a grandparent that passed away. >> So even though you're not here physically, I feel you around me. So it um it did very well and I my first album had that song and it was in a metal box. I don't know if you remember. I wanted it's all about the angle and the marketing and I was in the marketing business. So instead of another plastic CD, I put the CD in a metal case with a nice ribbon around it. So you come into the store and you see a metal box with a ribbon. >> So I know that song from Jewish Music Stream. >> Yeah, they still play it until today. >> And then I have another song called Tik Tok that that's pretty popular >> because of Tik Tok. [clears throat] >> No, it's a long time ago. when you did tic tac it had nothing to do with tick tock tick and I have a video about it also and um AK Pella took the song and made a sphere version out of it. So yeah, >> Dara, not HP, but if they're doing it, they used to be like, >> you know, I was trying to put the pieces together. >> You you went into the construction business and the development and flipping the homes in Marine Park and used the money you had saved up for the 30 grand from the developing the the pictures and the you sold that business or you just gave it away or >> So as I grew in that business, I had employees and I sold it to one of the employees. I just So you made money selling it or >> um I made some money but it was more of like a thank you and to get out of it. >> Here we know if if you had the right vision. Is that business still around today? >> So that fellow had it for like five or six years and then he got a good offer to go into the wholesale pharmaceutical or as we call it the drug business to the nursing homes. So he ran as fast as he can because until today he's doing very well with it. >> So you see you when >> we all see opportunity and we pay >> you. You said you had a vision one day. You woke up and you're like what's going to happen with this business? one and then this guy also got rid of it so it wasn't scalable. >> Yeah, I have a feeling when you retire you're going to go all into music. That's my gut. >> I have a lot of loves like the nonprofits and helping people and uh the music. So, I try to split my time. I'm very into work every day, you know, the normal business hours on weekends like Matz Shabas on Sunday. I'm very into the nonforprofit work and you know, I have meetings, you know, specific meetings throughout the month on the nonprofit side. So, I try to be as, you know, and then my music is hurting because I don't have enough time. I wish I put out albums and music videos every day. I just don't get to it. >> So, I'm going to go back 20 minutes where we got on a full tangent. I said in Crown Heights, growing up in Crown Heights, there was a Crown Heights Jewish Community Council. Community Council is like where there's like a bunch of people that sit in cubicles and they try to help you get on insurance or Medicaid or help you if you have a ticket or any type of community problem. >> How does it work? anybody that has any community that wants you just you just open up a community council if there's another community council could you open up another one that you think I could help people in the community and how you get funded by getting government grants like what is the >> process >> process of doing a community council >> so it's a very good question so the answer is as follows um it's good for every community to have their you know their their glue if you will and it looks different for every community because let's say Crown Heights needs social services Medicaid and food stamps and things for old people and maybe Tom Kashab is for poor people while maybe Marine Park that has a much younger community because 95% of the people in Marine Park are between the ages of 25 and 45 or 48. So they need things pertaining more to younger people. So whereas Flapush Kojo focuses more on social services and maybe education and Rabbi Ellie Cohen who's phenomenal in the Crown Heights JCC focuses on whatever works for him. I tried understanding what does my JCC look like. So I do social services but to a very limited extent because most people are middle class and both mother and father are working and they're young. So their needs look a little bit different. So what did I do? I built a Jewish library with a music studio and I have it's open seven days a week and there's classes whether it's sewing and guitar and >> open seven days a week for Shabas not the studio but the library. >> Right. So you have library that you could sit and read books. Shabas also and you have toys for little kids. Then you have during the week where you could read and you can borrow books because you have a library card and then when the library >> it's not a Brooklyn public library it's your >> only Jewish >> only Jewish books for the Jewish community of Marine Park. >> It's no anyone can come. >> Anybody can come. But I'm saying it just I don't have library books from the gaish library or they can go to the gaish library. And I personally had an issue with it because today when you walk into the library between the certain people that are there and the certain content that is being offered it's not necessarily not necessarily in line with some most of >> the from people's view. So you're putting yourself into a bad environment for many reasons. So I think having Jewish library, Jewish books and Jewish programming is just a positive thing for the Flatbush, Marine Park, Crown Heights, any community. And I actually relied heavily on Kabad people because they have library experience and I they I paid and volunteers and even till today the people uh that run the library or the back office are uh you know from the Crown Heights or related community because they they have that type of experience. But I opened the library as one item and we have you know sewing and guitar classes and studio and chess competitions and a lot of programs to make and I do have uh to kashabas I built a catering hall I had a magazine a weekly bulletin you >> still have the magazine or no >> I just stopped the print magazine just recently after 13 years >> so you do give up on some else yeah >> so it's digital >> yeah so after a while so I have a digital I also have uh a weekly bulletin that became strong And um yeah, and I have I have a lot of education. I have thousands of people that get free business courses to learn like QuickBooks, Excel, Word, Time Management, Public Speaking, uh Microsoft Office, AutoCAD, EMT, like all those types to help you learn free and get a job. >> Yeah. So, what I do is they're free. Some courses are the way it works is some courses are free. Some courses if you come, I'll even incentivize you and give you $50 or $100 if you complete it. Some of them I'll charge you $100, but if you come to the course at least 80%, I will give you back the $100 because I don't want people to waste my time because then they're locking out the next person who could have taken it. So the answer is free or I even will give you money, but I need to see that you're there. Um, >> so you didn't take over a community council, you built it ground up. I co-started it with two friends in 2008 because of the drama that was going on in 2008. Eventually the other two, one moved away and one became uh you know busy with his professional life and I ended up holding the bag. Um >> did it came with a building? >> No, there was zero. Oh, >> so you built the library, bought the lands from scratch. >> So I leased one building, I leased another building with a 35 year lease, great term. So that's how it started. Um, so I I at least one building that had a pool and I had a Sunday program at one point for 10 years straight. I had about 300 girls or 250 girls in my Sunday program and then I had the tumashabas and so I I I had many different things happening in the community for different segments. So I had Holocaust survivors, divorce ladies, education, tam kashabas, youth programs, girls programs, matashabas, different [snorts] things for different people because as a community it's not just one line item and over the years we evolved. And to answer your other question, the city has some grants, but the amount of money we get from the city or state doesn't really represent >> what is the annual budget. I spend we spend about about 1.3 1.5 a year and we you know the city and state combined uh gives we receive a very small percentage of it >> a rough idea how much >> maybe 15 20%. It's terrible. >> So, as a business [clears throat] person, I don't I don't we do fundraising a little bit, especially before, you know, I go to all the SHs to speak about it and we do fundraisers, but throughout the year, it's just a little bit difficult for me to uh to do fundraising because I'm busy working. So as a business person I said how about if I do events that are going to be valuable and make money and take all that money and put it into the organization and that's where JCON was born. So when I do a real estate event and I can have anywhere between 400 and a,000 people show vendors and sponsors want to be there and pay 5 10 15 20,000 because they want to have communication with a thousand real estate people. So it's a win-win. They give the money. They give money to attend. We put a lot of money in, of course, to um run the show, which by the way, there's a kabat fellow who helps me with the show, too. And then the money that comes as uh all the extra money, I don't take the money for myself. It goes straight to the organization. And it's almost like, you know, one business feeds the next. So that's how I tried to fill the gap of the deficit whether it be through JCON which has many events or >> Oh Jon just one of your Stan Allen Hilton event. >> No so the JCON real estate is two one in the winter and one in the summer. The one in the winter is at 235th Avenue on the rooftop and the one in the summer is at the Hilton Staten Island. So the one in the winter has maybe 400 and change people and the one in the summer has closer to a thousand. And then we did JC Con e-commerce, JCON healthcare, JCON elder care, JCON um education which was about like Parnasa. So they alternate. I don't do every single one every year, but between those uh those four or five, they alternate. >> Lately, there's a lot of business shows in the >> I started it with a little Babachu man from Crown Heights. Wordy >> Wordy Wordy Wordy >> Yeshua >> Wordy C H >> Y E >> I started it with him after a few years he decided to have a different focus more of a kabad focus and I wanted to uh help the general public so I ended up just >> he made a a men's social in the summer with a lot of businessmen and a lot of powerful people there it was clappy started his career his sh career with Rabbi Wordy >> yeah I started I co-founded a sh with him >> he's a very special So, >> so you see wanting or not, you're always surrounded around people >> want or not. You see, again, um, currently there's a lot of there's more than ever from business conferences. Um, are there not enough? Is there too much? What's your opinion? >> So, I think that there's not a lot of conferences. There are a few and they're all niche. There are maybe a few overlaps. Incidentally, the real estate happens to have an overlap because you have JC Con, you have PCON, you have Red Deal, you have uh now Redal had a separation with the people that ran it. So, there was another one. I forgot the name of it, but great people too. And then you have also okay like Satmer does Satmer, but that's about Satmer. So, it has like no relevance to industry, >> right? >> Um, so there's a little bit oversight over overlap, but all of them are full. I met you at uh the red deal and um everyone does well and has a little bit of a different purpose so there's enough to go around grew. I think it's amazing and we should have even more because we're not educated in college and networks. We figure it out as we go. So it's great that you can come into an industry, find people, find people that you may know and it kind of like it's I think it's it's a brilliant model >> and I was involved. There's a fellow by the name of Manny Hoffman. He runs a company called PEX. He was actually the brainchild. Um he he started one 15 years ago when we didn't know what it was and he invested like maybe $100,000 >> in a business show >> in a business show and I was like what? And he put together the most beautiful show and I did the first Shark Tank and helped him and then I ran that Shark Tank like five years straight. It was a big success until it ran its course. But he came up with the idea of doing a Jewish trade show. He stopped >> come with his thing. came and I helped him with that. Um after >> after okay >> so Manny Hoffman came then Dovy Hon came he was also great and then it kind of died to zero and then I came in and then after a few other people came and believe it or not we talk we'll get together and a sat guy calls me that there's a labeer guy making in Jersey an event around the JCON time so we want to make sure we don't overlap >> newer >> so and he was very kind he's like can you do a Tuesday I said I can't because the hotel's is not available. I I have to do it Wednesday. So he's like, "Okay, I'll change mine to Tuesday." And then I called Satmer and other like we work well together because I think even though everyone maybe wants to make money, in my case, I want to make money for the organization, but at the end of the day, it's just a really good vibe. No one is like like stiff competition taking away from another. So I I like the way it is right now. >> Has it worked that it supports the organization fully? Like it's a good it worked out well. So it it definitely is profitable and I do many of these events and other I have like the magazine brings in money, the whole brings in money um and the youth programs bring in money. So I try to couple the money from the city and state and other items to bring me to like maybe you know 80 90% of the budget and then I have to be responsible for that last 10 15% which is maybe you know reaching out to some. Was there any, you know, >> was there any opposition when you opened up the Marine Park Jewish Community Council from other communities that said you're encroaching on their >> originally? I wanted to call it the JCC of Brooklyn, but I knew that would be firepower. So then I knew I would have a problem calling it the JCC of Marine Park because as you grow, you'll always be known as Marine Park. Even though 80% of the people that I help are not in Marine Park, but people still call me Marine Park, right? Let's say the education classes. If I have a thousand people all the way from Muny to Manhattan to Riverdale to the five towns, I have 80% of my classes online. >> So people in Burough Park, Flatbush, Kensington, the five towns, Muny, everyone's taking courses, >> but Marine Park. So when I go to elected officials for money for the organization, they're like, I don't represent Marine Park. >> So I made that mistake because I felt like I had no choice but to call myself Marine Park because there are territories, this Cran Heights, this Flappish, this Borrow Park. So it stuck Marine Park but Iam help we we try to help people all over and some things are only for Marine Park like Tunk Shop is a Marine Park. I can't afford to give people in Crown Heights but if it's education why not or if it's uh you know youth program trains in Marine Park >> there no trains in Marine Park. The closest at the junction of Flatbush and like you have to have a car place in Brooklyn College of Williamsburg UJ on Penn Street. >> So when my when my wife came to America we needed help with a green card and lawyers wanted like $4,000. We called them up and they walked we went there twice. They walked us through all the paperwork from A to Z and they said if you want you can give us a $200 donation, right? >> The funny thing was is >> they get a lot of city and state money by the way. >> They're amazing. But the crazy thing was is that I'm sitting in the office with this young smer lady. She had like a little baby playing with crayons. Whatever. She's showing us government paperwork. She's flipping it through faster and quicker than the best lawyer in the world. This form, that form, this, that, whatever. Here's the crazy thing. Who is the office next door screaming and yelling? The biggest askin in the whole entire world by Nitman. >> Yeah. >> A broken chair to clap the desk. He's on the phone and he's screaming and yelling. Who is he on THE PHONE WITH? THE GOVERNOR. [laughter] I WAS HEARING A CONVERSATION. HE'S ON THE PHONE WITH THE GOVERNOR. No fancy office. Simple, classy. They get it done. >> Yeah, they're fantastic. And the girls in their office are efficient. And Rabbi Neman is great and he's involved in so many different asanas. He's involved in ascanas on a local level in Kuran Heights. He's involved with all the electeds to help like bring apartments and money on a little bit of a bigger level. And then he's involved like on an international level with karum and people that have issues in other countries. >> Do you know about I don't know anything about him. How did he get so good at what he does? >> I think it's just when when you do it and you get a good reputation of being a good broker, being honest, not in it for the money. like you say, the broken chair, the decent office, not crazy, and it's not about the luxury trips, and people see that you have a community and that you're real. Politicians, they they're not stupid. They need two things very much, votes and money and they want to look good. So, when you make them look good and you you never like cross them, go behind their back and you get them votes and they can come to the community and try to make money to get reelected. you know, they want to work with good people that uh that they can trust and that really do good. >> There's no better person in the world to ask than you because you are a business person and you are doing a scunnus and you need government funding. >> You need money from the government, but what happens when you're a local politician, your elected officials are horrible people and like if you denounce them like, "Oh, it's going to cost me money. Maybe they're going to try to stop funding." How do you balance that? So, first of all, because I'm in the Askconness business, I try not to be in the politics business. So, >> and politics are not the same thing. >> No, because there's there's a person that has an opinion. I hate this senator. I love the senator. I hate what he said. I hate Trump. I love Trump. I hate what he did about Israel. I hate what he did about Iran. I love that's people that are in politics. Askis like people do come to me all the time. They're like, "What? you uh you're taking money from this elected official or you're telling people to vote for this elected official. He said this about that. He and I tell them you have to understand let's say first of all nobody will agree with anyone on on 100% of anything. So I said let's say you don't agree with him because he stands for you know liberal views but at the end of the day he's your elected and he could help us let's say change the zoning in the community. So, should I should I help and work with him to help 10,000 families or should I say no because he got arrested in Manhattan five years ago and there was a bad article about him in the New York Times about um African-American people in the Bronx. Let let's not ever let any Jewish people get helped. Let's say I can help feed 5,000 families. Let's say we can get tuition dropped for yeshivas. Do you think our says, "hm, we could help Kali Israel get free busing." No, we're not going to talk to the governor because she is okay with uh something in a different community. No, no one does it. When you do ask on this, sometimes you're not going to go to a a you know Russia, but we're talking about elected officials and they're in tune to the community. They're good people and they could be more liberal, they could be less. So if it comes to voting, giving money, politics, that's a different story. But when it comes to you want to help your community, it's a very fine line. So I try to again if the person's a Russia or a major problem, we're not talking about extremists. I'm talking about the average politician. They have views like everybody else. Right. >> What's your what's your read on the Mr. Mani? >> What's the next question? [laughter] Now I think he's extremely charismatic. [laughter] I think he got he he he like he got all the younger New Yorkers like he owns them because he speaks well and he comes across well. Do you notice that he always smiles and he never talks back? He never fights back when they say, "Oh, Giuliani said this about you." What do you say? >> I saw that clip. >> He's going to be like, "Okay, so Giuliani has a right to his own opinion." Or, "Let's see what New Yorkers say. He's very, very smart. how he never ever fights back. Um, he has Jessica Tish with a mug and Dovet who's Jewish even though you know she's like I'm going to the Israeli day parade. He's like I'm not going to the guy. I heard a guy. >> So he's he's very very we in Empire Stallashkin a few days ago. I heard a guy that works in the Mandani office. I'm not going to say names but guy is very high up in the Mani office. I heard him telling somebody else that his administration has a lot of Jewish people working. No, no, no. The most Jews of any mayor had. >> Yeah, he said the most Jews of any mayor. Now, I'll tell you what I think. You know, God bless that, you know, that's good. I want you to have jobs. But, um, [laughter] I'm just thinking if it's not not Shmayim, I think he's doing it to show like, OH, YOU SEE, I EMPLOY more Jews. But then at the same time, he has no Jews in that. I remember in the summer they made that that judicial board for the city, like 18 lawyers he appointed and none of them were Jewish when like more than 50% or 50% of Jews. our lawyer lawyer Jewish. I think he's very smart. He's very strategic. Of course, as a Jewish New Yorker, there's a lot of things that hurt me. And from a and from his, you know, everything being free and a liberal perspective, I think things could be problematic. And, you know, so like anything else in politics, we all have our grievances and there are things that everyone does good. So, from a Jewish perspective, there there's definitely uh issues. What's your prediction from a politician perspective? He's he's very smart >> is separating politicians and views and what they could do for the community. He wants to divide them. It's not like oh because that's his basic view. >> But Manny did take a lot of the Jews that are there I see them I'm just observing I see are liberal park slope Jews. They're not like Lavich and Burough Park Jews. So sometimes that works against us. They don't they share more of the liberal views. And then he's like, "Oh, you have an issue. Go speak to Rabbi Sharon soand so. Oh, my oh, my commissioner, she's Jewish." So, they have they can hang the Jewish hat, but not not necessarily does it reflect it reflects the Park Slope Jewish, but it doesn't reflect necessarily the mainream or the Orthodox Jewish. But, uh, but again, that's going back into politics, not so I really should not have answered this question. >> Talking about upcoming elections, what's your read on the uh Bruce Blakeman Kathy Huckle election? I'm gonna have to stay on the Skunna side of this. [laughter] >> I don't know how Rings do this show. He's so He's so neutral. He's so kosher. [laughter] >> It's because I focus on the Askana side of things because first of all, whenever you do something political, 50% of the people hate you. And also, you can't advocate for people to both sides of the aisle and try to help people and then be political because it's like two different things, you know? You can't work for the Yankees and the Mets and just do the marketing for both and promoting each one because >> so that's why I try to stay more to the Assana side. Of course, I have personal views like everybody else. >> Yankees or Mets? You're from the Bronx. So, >> I'm from the Bronx, but I never grew up with it. So, I don't know the difference to be honest with you. I know it sounds terrible, but I don't I >> It sounds like you're more careful about answering a Yankee Met question than a politic. >> But [laughter] I but I've gone with my kids to both games because that's what a father does, but I I assure you I don't know the names of the players and I don't know mom is the difference. I know the Yankees are supposed to be better than the Mets, but whoever's a Met fan is going to have a heart attack on that, but I really don't know. >> You're from the Bronx and you proudly say you're not a Yankee fan. Okay. >> I >> I have you have 20. >> I lived in the Bronx. I never went to a Yankee game. I only went from Flatbush with my kids 20 years later. >> From all your careers, the music, the escanos, the community council, the construction, if your 25-year-old son or daughter tells you today, I want to start a career. Where do you tell them to go? Because I find that most people that come on the show do not advocate that their children follow their footsteps. [laughter] >> So, I I think that everybody has a little bit of a a different um love Some people like construction and real estate. Some people like healthcare. Some people like to sit at a computer. Some are not so outgoing. So what I would say is like this. Um if you want to be a doctor and a lawyer, you must go to college. There's only one route. Do it. If not, then try to think of something that you like to do. It could be real estate. It could be construction. It could be healthcare. It could be nursing homes. And your Harvard education will be for the next two years. Take a job in that industry by the best company, by like a great company, not like a father and son operation working from their basement and don't focus on what they pay you. A lot of people make that mistake. Oh, I took a job now. The guy offered me in construction $20,000 a year. What is he making fun of me? I said, if you went to Harvard, you would be spending a h 100,000 a year. The guy is not charging you 100,000 a year. He's actually paying you 20,000 a year. So, if you think that you have a future in nursing homes, go to the nursing home. work for the worker of the administrator. Bring him coffee every day. Treat that first two years as if it were to be a Harvard education and it's going to rub off on you. You're going to listen. You're going to learn. You're also going to treat the job. You can go 9 to5 and say, "Oh, I'm checking out. Oh, he made me work an hour late." Or you could say, "I am investing every minute to be worth a million dollars a year. I want to see. I want to learn. I want to sit in the meeting. I want to bring the coffee. I want to stay an hour later." And if you come with the over that next year or two, three, my son came home from wasn't sure what to do. He learned yeshiva three and a half years. He comes home, he comes home, old boy, 19 and a half, doesn't know what to do. Started working in construction, wasn't worth that much money because the human capital is not there. Three years later, he knows how to put up high-rise superstructure buildings. So three years later, whether he decides to do his own thing or whether he decides to get a job, he's worth now $150, $200,000 where three years ago he was 19 and he's still at the what the ripe old age of 23, 24, 25, 26, 27. So you just have to think, like I said before, what industry that even if I only make it from the top 50%, can I make a good living? Some people don't want to be millionaires and they don't want to be busy working. They want to work for others. Fine. So you could work for a nursing home and make money. You could work for a mortgage company and make money. Just choose an industry that has the opportunity. You >> distinguish podcast and good business. Yeah. What's your opinion? >> So I'm asking you the same question. Most of the podcasts, do they make real money? If you have to be from the top 10%, which Clappy happens to be, Clappy and Frank happen to be from the top 10% of the Jewish podcast. But you have to ask yourself the same question. And I think every industry could do very well. It's always about the angle. It's always about the angle because everyone opens a podcast, but one person has an idea and that's the difference I find when it comes to real estate, when it comes to, you know, it's all about the angle. >> So, you have to know what your angle is. >> What do you like about our our show? >> I love the freess, the high energy. I love uh, you know, you're a realist and you're an energy bunny. Um, just don't take out those Energizer batteries, you know. But um I think it's great. You come from a true place of wanting to know more about the world and it comes through where people get educated accordingly and you come from that hish and the kabad and the flapush background and I love to see people's comments based on you know who knocks who off in the middle of what conversation but I you know and it's becoming better and better. >> How'd you discover the show? >> Um my YouTube fed it to me. >> Fed it to you. Thank you Mr. YouTube. Yeah. >> How can we how could how how can we improve our shows here? >> Um >> because you're you're a business coach, so I'm trying to get some free services. >> I think it has to be about the angle. Um I think it has to be about the angle because it's not about just having people and it's not about just trying to be controversial. I have to put a little bit of thought of it because we're on we're on live now for the last two hours. [laughter] So it's it's getting to me a little bit. But um it could be you know obviously booking guests that are more and more famous will definitely yield results and sponsors. >> Just just on that note I specifically specifically go with certain guests that are not so famous because I feel like I'm providing a service to my audience to have somebody on that wasn't on 53 episodes. And also I know I'm going to sound like oh you're such a s Clappy. We had an offer to have on singers that are from the top three in the Jewish world today. Factual. And I said, "Put it on a sides. They've been on a million podcasts. Everybody knows their name. They get paid 30 $40,000 a gig." And I said, "I want to have on Barak Shamovski because I I I believe he's extremely talented and gifted and he has to have his moment to shine. And I hope his career explodes now." >> So I think I think it's true, but I do think you should have the people that can draw attention. you should have the top three on anyways. And I do think that you should travel live with this to different trade shows like my own like I had from mind your own business. So I think you should travel whether you travel here or even travel around the country because now that people know you, you'll be a celebrity when you come to Miami and go into the shul and do a podcast. Um >> I haven't think you have to see how am I of value to other companies. So, it could be that there's a mortgage company that wants to have you at their annual lunchon for their employees to have a fun live uh you know, and they'll pay you a real$510$20,000 sponsorship. So, that's how I think you make money and you scale that way. >> I like the Joe Rogan model where he makes everyone come to his studio. Like I really >> You could have the traveling. You could have the traveling model to sell into the traveling. I'm not I mean Barak the Kabad Ber opportunities he worked in the matri I was traveling around I I think I did 50 60 countries Africa Asia Europe South I bash I my travel bug is completely right >> decimated >> when I say travel it could be traveling to Manhattan and Queens you don't necessarily have to go out of the country or >> there are a bunch of liquid guys that we want that we maybe would travel for >> um we You just have to >> that Robin Lakewood that's >> I think companies and events it's I think for companies and events it's worth you know maybe doing that you know traveling here and there because it's >> well we did go to we did go to Oakenov and we did an interview like a mini interview >> we did we do little mini one >> mini interviews we're starting to do that now >> there's something about >> a studio podcast where there's nothing else going on it's very focused it's it's organic it's the show is noise >> that's for the most >> CNBC also does it they go on site to these G20 conferences and UN week They they show up. They do that. You never know, right? Clap. >> Never know. >> You said you do business coaching, correct? Sales is the driver of any business. Give us three tips in sales. If you're not clappy, you don't mind picking up the phone, calling, and screaming, and now he's a celebrity, so people are excited just to talk to him. If you're a boring personality like yourself, how do you do the sales for you? >> First of all, thank you, T. [laughter] I would say that um sales is not necessarily for everyone even though every single person sells themselves every day, right? We want something, we speak to the wife, we speak to the kids, we speak to our parents, we want to look good, we want to smile. So to a certain extent you sales, but not everyone feels comfortable doing sales. I would say that if you want to be a successful salesperson, remember number one, sell yourself, don't sell your product. People come in and they it's I always say it's never what you say but it's how you say it. So people come in and say, "Hi, my name is Shia and I sell air conditions and I'm telling you we have best customer service. I'm telling you we have best prices. We're around for 10 year." And you just go on and on about yourself. No one is interested in you and you saying how good you are and your customer service. No one believes you because who doesn't say that I have the best price and the best customer service? So what you really have to do is sell yourself and then speak about your product for a little bit. So this is how a conversation for a salesperson should go. >> Let's say you want to sell someone on your custom home. Shia pitch. Why should I use you to pitch my to build my future custom home? >> So first what I do is when I walk in, you smile high energy like Clappy. I say, "Hi, good afternoon. Such a pleasure to meet you. Thank you for calling me down." Then I start with a compliment and I say, "By the way, I love your home. It looks beautiful." So you make a person feel good and then what I do is I try to speak for the first 20 minutes to them about them and not even about construction because you have to sell yourself. You have to create a connection. People do business with people. People don't do business with stuff. So if if you're just selling a transactional item then it's like okay this beverage cost a dollar. This cost a dollar too. Oh it went up to 99 went down to 99 cents. I'll buy this one. So if it's about the cost, then you'll win and lose, win and lose. And the second you're more expensive, you're out. So you have to make it about selling yourself as being a good, trustworthy, knowledgeable person, becoming their friend. And then people say, "Why should I use you?" You know, you tell them, "I've been in the industry a long time. I'm more than happy to give you referrals for people that I finished the work and they still talk to me." and um maybe we're not a good fit to work together. But I think that you know if you're open to sharing with me the plans, I'm more than happy to. You should know whenever people a lot of people would call me and say, "Oh, I'm renovating the house and adding an extension. I'm building a new house. Here's my plans. Can you give me a price?" Now, I know that they're pricing out a few contractors. If I just send them a price, there's a 99% chance that they're just using me as a reference of a price quote. So when they send it to me, I I tell them, I'd love to give you a proposal, but I would love to meet you at the site so I can review it and I have a lot of questions for you. So by doing that, first of all, I do ask them questions and it clarifies. >> You filter out all the shoppers. >> But no, I do it for a different reason because I take the plans from them. I do read it, you know, um before I meet them, but then when I meet them, I do ask them relevant questions because the cost of a house depends on a lot of things, right? What are you putting inside the house? Is there central air conditioning and heating? Is there in flooror? What type of doors and walls and wallpaper? So, I meet with them to understand, but I really meet with them even more so because I want to make the human connection. So, I talk to them. I compliment them. I become their friend. I show them I'm trustworthy and knowledgeable. And that brings me 90% there. >> Also, when you see them in person, a lot of the times you probably say, "I don't want to do business with this person." Cl [laughter] that that could happen also, right? I how many >> when a person comes to me and says oh don't make money on me I'm telling you I know so many people if you do it for me every so I I used to like you know but now I tell them you know what I'll make a deal you're right I know you're a popular guy and if I do it for you everyone so I'm going to charge you full full price and for everyone that comes I'm going to give you a check of 10 grand [laughter] why should I lose a hundred grand because you said it how about if you pay now and I'll give you $10,000 off on each person but it's a very common tactic but making so to answer your question if you want to be amazing at sales >> well that's when they called you that's already a warm introduction what about you want to get new business >> you want to get new business same idea when you call create a human connection so I would call out >> hi Mo good afternoon this is she Rubenstein you may not remember me but I remember that you had the most magnificent drink that I once bought in Crown Heights is that you see what I >> you need a point you need a I showed you that I know you. I created a point of reference. So it brought you back. I gave you a compliment. What are you going to hang up the phone on me now? >> No. So you see, so it's not like, "Hi, I sell toners. I'm telling you I'm good." It's giving the compliment connection. >> Let's say you don't have a connection with the person. What do you do then? Yeah. >> So you go into LinkedIn and you find their name and it says that they did this and they do that and they've been here and then you say, >> "I read about you. Were you the guy that was in Miami on that beautiful big 40ft boat? That's amazing. how how did you learn to do that? And I make the next 10 minutes about them and asking them questions and I'm learning more. And when they answer, I just repeat the last three words back to them that they said. So they their subconscious affirms that I actually heard what they said. And I just I do that. >> And you don't have an MBA in business? >> No MBA. I have MBA Harvard of the real world. >> No, it sounds like you should be giving the MBA course in Harvard. >> But what what did the guy do when the distributor told me yesterday? Um, he said, "Oh, send me a picture of the item. What did I do?" Clappy. The shri didn't want to not meet me. He just just sent me a picture. What did I do? Clap. >> You did a FaceTime. >> I showed up. I drove up. >> Oh, Mishy called up a big billion I don't know, billion a big multi-gazillion dollar company yesterday about a deal we want to do with them, >> the distribution for the coffee. >> Yeah. And the guy's like, "Yeah." He sent me picture, video, whatever. He's like, "Are you in the office?" And he we drove down to the office like boom on the spot. >> Hour and a half. What I usually do is I'll call a company and I I'll call let's say an architect that I want him to refer business to me or I'll call a company and I'll say trivial I I'll say certain things like I thought of an idea for you. I m uh Mr. Weiss um first [snorts] of all I have to tell you I heard a lot about you. You're you're known actually to be a great architect and I saw that you built A and B and C. But I have an idea for you. Your company has a lot of overheading. You're trying to make money. You're let's say an architect but there's so many other places that you could make money. I have an idea for you. And then I pitch my idea. So I intrigue him and I make it sound and I I'm I'm positioning myself. Not that I'm selling you something, but I have an idea for you. I would like like when I fundra for my nonprofit, I never say words like please help Saddaka. Please. I never use those words. I tell people I have an opportunity. I I can offer you the opportunity to partner with me in helping people. I offer people an opportunity to partner with me. I never say words like please saddaka zapasnesh why please they're dying because people don't want to hear that their subconscious locks you out they're like no I have too many I'll tell you a perfect example between sedaka and construction clappy is renovating his house I come to he's spending a million dollars I come to Clappy and say I run the JCC of Marine Park we're short can I ask you for thousands before us shut to help families what's Clappy's response >> I do business with the guy and now it's costing me money >> you'll be like or you'll be like look I have my kiz yeshiva I have ish I have the mikvah I have I have kashabas I can't okay I understand a minute later I come to clappy I say clappy we're spending a million dollar on your renovation I was looking at your lighting plan I'm telling you that your designer made a mistake you should add four spotlights it only cost about $800 but if you have these four spotlights your dining room is going to look good what's your response >> oh my god it's amazing let's do it >> a minute ago you didn't want to give me a dollar for ducka now $800 and down to two seconds, right? So, it's not about money, it's about them comprehending. So, when you say, "Please help me," they don't hear. They lock you out. When you offer them the opportunity, oh, opportunity partner, what what is it? So, that's why the mechanics of making money in sales is about high energy, compliment, becoming their friend, offering them opportunity. Don't sell people. People don't want to be sold to. Become their friend and offer them the opportunity. Explain to them how it's going to benefit them. Ask them about them. Let them talk. So that's really the malik. Once you understand how to do this, your life changes from zero to 100. >> Shia, three tips how to run a success. >> And that's the MBA from Burough Park >> above 45 48. Shia, how do you run a successful trade show? >> So I found that I used to do different trade shows. So when you do a general trade show, I found that it was very unsuccessful because >> there's no focus entrepreneur like big words like politicians use we care about healthcare and education. So when you do a big show and we care about small business, entrepreneurs, public speak, people don't know what you're talking about. When you say I'm doing a show for nursing home industry, I'm doing a real estate show. It's very simple. You bring the real estate, the developers, the management, the vendors that sell to them, good speakers that speak to the industry, and that's how you package it. So, you just have to have, you know, maybe a good hook, like a good speaker or two, maybe a relationship with a good venue that's going to give you a cheaper price. Um, and then, of course, you need some good anchor. When I do a show like JCON, the first thing I focus on after I decide on the date and the venue, the first and only thing I care about for the next two weeks is to lock in, let's say, the first x amount of dollars to cover the budget. That's all I do. I call three, four, five vendors, sponsors that I feel will benefit out of the show and I focus on locking them in. So now I know there's no loss. After that we delegate. We decide on the food and the speaker. Everything is good after that. So that's then as it gets closer I look at the numbers and if we need to bring the numbers up, you know, whether it's outsourcing or pushing, we make sure that we push sales as much as possible. >> You don't push, you add give people opportunity. >> There you go. You see, [laughter] >> learn is quick. Oh, you see now the cl the class the class paid off. >> If you have to do the pie chart, what the revenue of a trade show or conference, what comes from what? >> Revenue, >> sponsors, admission fees, >> sponsors, >> speaker fees, >> sponsors, 80% income. >> Sponsors means like they're on the lanyard or they're buying a booth. >> Either one. So they'll spend anywhere from, let's say, $3,000 to have a small booth to $25,000 to have a sponsorship and anywhere in between. So it could be the lanyard and it could be a booth and it could be sponsoring dinner. It could be sponsoring uh the the bar, it could be sponsoring the photo head shot. So the >> 80% is sponsors >> and that's my rates. Other companies like you know the they may be lower or they may be $100,000 like I don't know what their numbers are. >> 20% is admission fees. So I would say about 60% the sponsors and other 30 right because I grouped the sponsors together with the booths. >> Okay. >> And then the other 20 is the ticket fees for people coming in. So you could do 20 20 and uh 60 or you could do 80 if you count the people that are sponsor/buth as 80 and that and the people walking. >> Mushi took me to Mosi took me to a few trade shows in the last year and we never disc I never discussed this with him but it's very interesting. You go to a trade show, there's a million booths, not a million, a few hundred or a thousand or whatever or 50, whatever. Small little ones. I find that a lot of people come and it's like they get a bag and they go to each booth and they get a card and they this and they that whatever. I see that Mishi is an expert. He locks in three, four companies he wants to do business or have a relationship with and that's basically his drive. He'll he'll do his hakafus but he'll always get back to the same few people and those people always either become sponsors or they actually come on the show etc etc. >> That's actually a very >> Isn't that the way it is? >> That's a very good second followup to sales. I've met I've sp I just spoke to one of the people I mentor um just this week and I was trying to help him get onto a trajectory to do well in sales. So I told him how to sell and then I told him one of the things that you have to put in your trajectory is once a week davin in a different shel in your neighborhood and once a month you should go to a trade show. So he didn't know that I run JCON. He's like oh but I went to show I went to JCON and I got nothing out of it. [laughter] I said what did you put into it? Oh I I walked around I met some friends and I said I [laughter] said you walked in speaking to a few friends eating dinner and leaving. So you really get what you put into it. So if you spoke to people that you didn't know or you asked your friends to introduce you to a different person or you walked over to booths that sell and also if you went there and started talking to them about them and making that personal connection but again if you walked in and said hi I sell air conditions why aren't you buying from me and then you walk out or if you go there and speak to five friends eat dinner and leave so whatever you put in is what you get out so the way you say it in sales the way you go to a trade show and we live in a from community we three times a day. Go once a week to a different shul that's not your sh. >> But I have a problem because I have my own shul. So if I'm not there, there's nothing happening. It's like [laughter] I feel like an >> and when you if you want the shul to grow where you are, you'll see if you ask a guy like Mo to take over for a day and you're not there, he'll feel the if not him, it's going to fail. He'll step up to the plate and you'll see you'll have more time. You know how there's owners of small companies, I tell when I consult with companies that want to grow, I tell him,"Wh why are you doing the bookkeeping and the sales and running around?" He's like, "If I don't do it, it doesn't get done." I said, "That's the mentality of a man who will never grow in his life." The second I said, "Let me ask you, does Bill Gates pick up the phones in his office? Does he do the filing? Does he do the Quickbooks? How how is it possible? Bill Gates run a big company. How is it possible he doesn't do it?" Once you let go of the mentality, if I don't do it, it doesn't get done. That's when you start to grow. So, when you have a shul in Crown Heights, the minute you let go and you let someone else run it for the day, that's when you know you're you're going to be the next I'm not going to say 770 because that's going to become controversial, [laughter] but it's going to become the next 550 or something. >> I just want to I want to put the record straight over here, not to do ear dirty laundry in public. You don't want to compliment somebody and say your sh should be running as smooth as 770. [laughter] >> Well, 770 is not a sh. It's tent. Yes. >> Institution. It's everything. It's not it's not really a shul. I I look at it more as a institution. The day is going to come. >> The day is going to come where you're going to say if when you run it as smooth as 770. It's like then >> Yeah. But I don't know that much about 770 to be able to >> He's so politically uh uh attuned to everything he knows. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know that a tiptoe >> but I had discussed as a as a young boy to come here a lot in Crown Heights for Shabas. And um >> you met the Reb. >> I met the Reb. I met the Reb on two two types of occasions. As a non-Kabad boy, I thought when the Reb comes in Friday night from the back of the Shaw to the front, you're supposed to go and say good chabas to the Reb. So I would always like push my way out and say good to the Reb. The Reb would always respond to me. So that's number one. Number two, I walked into 771 random afternoon and the Reb was walking out of his office to go to Dava and he sees me and he gives me a dime and he says so I told the Reb, "Hang on, I'm going to let me see if I have change. I want to change it." And the Reb tells me that he's in a rush and he doesn't have time. I should just put it right away into the duck box cuz he has to keep on walking. At the time it bothered me much because I was all of I don't know 10, 11, 12 and I was but then I said to myself many years later I learned something from the rabbi. Sometimes when you're supposed to do it you just do it. >> You don't wait change it up. >> It's a Nike commercial. Just do it. No, >> just do it. So I was surprised at the time that the Reb didn't give me the chance to change it and figure out the change cuz I wasn't prepared. It's not like I had something. >> You wanted to keep that dime to keep the dime and change it. So most people probably came prepared and knew what time the Reba comes out. I just random walked in at a 2:00 in the afternoon. >> 3:15 >> 3:15 whenever it was. So I wasn't prepared and I was taken I was actually taken by shock a little bit because I I knew of the rabbi. I've seen him. But I didn't expect him to like walk right into my right into me like really like like bump into me and then give me a dime and tell me put in sodaka. Also I speak Yiddish but a Polish Yiddish. And the Reb spoke like a very Russian Yiddish. So it took me a minute to also what he was saying. Third story, my uncle goes to the Fbran, says Shia, you want to come with me? What do I know about a Fbrangan? Right. I thought it's like a Paris. You go the Reb, they sing some songs. See, so I said, "Okay, sure." So I go to the Fbrangan. Then he tells me, "We're going to go on the stage and sit in back of the Reba. That's where, you know, he had a seat. So I'm like, "Okay." So a 12-year-old boy, I go to the Fbrangan. And I sit back at the Reba and I'm figuring, you know, they're going to sing songs, give out fruit, and 15, 20 minutes, we're done. Two hours later, I'm like dying. [laughter] How do you get out of here? And I tried, you know, but it it was a big, of course. >> So, you were there for many hours. &