Menachos Daf 83

All right, daf page gimel. Shabbos is daf, and we got to finish the eighth perek today. But first, we're picking it up in the middle of this gemara trying to get a muker for shittas Rebbi Akiva or for koldar in a bowl of because we worked it out according to Rebbi Eliezer, but now we got to work it out according to Rebbi Akiva. So, the gemara brought a big braysa. We started the braysa yesterday, and until we get to the punchline of the braysa, we're not going to get to what we need. In the meantime, we have all these other halachas. So, we started yesterday with sakin, and now we'll pick it up three lines from the bottom of the yomud with mincha. This long possuk, this long possuk of zeh Torah mincha l'asham u'l'miluim u'lzivchei shlamim, that's at the end of parshas tzav that seems to be totally redundant. What's the purpose of it? It's to learn all these different halachas. Now we're up to the word mincha. It's to teach us mincha in halachas zikrei kehuna. Only the male kohanim can eat from the korban mincha. So, in the same way that that's the halacha by mincha, so af kol also by all other korbanos in halachas zikrei kehuna. Only the male kohanim can eat it. The mincha shina is mechadesh that this halacha of zikrei kehuna is going to include katanim. The katanim are also going to be mekayem the zikrei kehuna. They used to not be davar, but they're not mayes like anishas. But now the gemara needs to clarify what korban are we actually talking about that needs to be eaten by zikrei kehuna. My ish asham, you don't need a korban mincha to tell me the halacha that they have to be eaten by zikrei kehuna moving over to med alef because as a b'feirish possuk kol zachar yochal etc. And shlamim tzibur, if you tell me the limud from a mincha is coming to tell you about the shlamei tzibur and that's specifically talking about the kivsei atzaros that are coming along with the shnei lechem, I don't need that. those kivsei atzaros from a ribui that the braysa brings kodesh hakodashim toichlenu kol zachar yochal oysai, which is limud al zivchei shlamei tzibur she'einam al zikrei kehuna. So, basically we know this halacha already. To which the gemara says regarding the zivchei shlamei tzibur, the muker is a machlokes tanaim. Iki d'masni loch iki d'masni loch. Okay, continuing the braysa, the next part of the possuk is chatas. What am I learning to compare all the other korbanos to a korban chatas? The machas mekadesh b'bulua, the halacha of bulua. When one buser that's hot is touching another buser, it absorbs those properties and becomes the more hummer of the two carbonas. It's also a negiah for hilchos yedei'a, but this is the halacha l'gabe the kochi. Anyway, af kol mikacha b'vilua, all other carbonas are also going to have that same halacha b'vilua. Next, asham. What are we comparing to asham? That ma asham ein shvir v'shilya kodesh ba'i, just like by an asham, it's shvir v'shilya. These unborn v'ladim are not going to be kodesh, and the reason is very simple, because an asham has to be a male carbon, so there's no such thing as a shvir v'shilya by an asham. So, af kol ein shvir v'shilya kodesh ba'i. So, even if that animal happens to be pregnant, those unborn v'ladim of a shvir v'shilya are not going to have any kedusha after the mother animal is k'shachtin, and therefore they're going to be b'lav chulin. And on this nekuda, k'safer v'ladim k'shachtin b'hevyos in hen kedashim. So, it would be Eliezer who was still going in right this point, who learns asham this way, holds that only the leida of the animal is what gives it its kedusha. V'donein after m'shiyeif she'eif, and he also holds the idea of donein after m'shiyeif she'eif, and that way you can compare other carbonas that do have v'ladim to an asham, which can't possibly have a v'lad. Va'ider miluim, why is the Torah mentioning miluim? To be makish to the miluim. Ma miluim v'meisrehen v'ein ba'alei chaim meisrehen v'sreifa. The leftovers of the miluim are burned, and any living animals that are not part of that meisr are not going to be burned. Af kol meisrehen v'sreifa v'ein ba'alei chaim meisrehen v'sreifa. This is not like the meisr chadas when you separate another one and you found the original one that you lost, and then you have now an extra carbon as a surplus carbon. No, this is talking about leftover that you didn't finish burning or eating. So, that kind of meisr where there's a halacha of sreifa is only talking about the leftover part of the carbon, but not the ba'alei chaim. Shlamim, ma shlamim m'faglin v'mispaglin, just like a carbon shlamim can make things that are brought with it into pigul and can become pigul themselves, af kol m'faglin u'mispaglin. So, that's all Rebbe Eliezer's understanding of the pasuk, but Rebbe Akiva is going to learn it differently. And the punchline of Rebbe Akiva is going to be able to give us the our makor that we need. Af kol d'varim b'chayei in a ba'al elemen achulin. So, b'mas nisan tamish mid' Rebbe Akiva, zeis hatayra chulu, etc. So, let's go through each one of them according to Rebbe Akiva. Mincha tells the halacha b'vilua. Ma mincha m'kacha b'vilua, af kol m'kadeshes b'vilua. And ishtrich l'mechtav b'chadas v'ishtrich l'mechtav b'mincha. I need the halacha b'vilua to be both by and by because because of well the by since it's softer it is more shy to bliss and mission the boss since the nature of is coming from fatty meat and therefore it might be actually penetrate and have more of an impact with its bliss because therefore I need to have both and to tell me the bliss. And here's our big punchline. Why is the tire I've mentioned in this long to tell me that they're all comparable to that my ain't above and of Uber has to be brought during the daytime right hand of call okay well how do I know that that is the the cover as I should so there you go that the carbon has to be brought from the kind of those and not from the master so that means the and not like master by by the that a carbon has to be brought by day I already know it from so why is need a heckish to tell me that you have to do it by day it turns out it didn't be I also know that one don't but so why is need the heckish which the heckish is only a sham according to me why does he need a sham what's the heckish telling me my it's my self the bones of the carbon are motor meaning there's no nicer to the bones which are inedible and even if they have marrow that might be kosher it doesn't matter I've called it my self motor and okay so now we've got our marker for called in a moment but come to scale which used the carbon as the marker so now the question is I have this so now the question is which used turning over to base over late what is he using with the marker for carbon Pesach? Which the answer is boy they let's say you have a mice of Pesach. The Pesach itself can become a carbon shalom. It's the easiest kind of transfer from a carbon Pesach to a carbon shalom. So how you talk to me about backer? And I might say Pesach that's what the tires telling us that that mice of Pesach can be brought as a carbon that would typically come from sign and backer which is a carbon shalom. Pretty good is that the marker of you can tell me that's what he's using the for. Me to the shalom to see if me not saying carbon the owner of them to me not saying that's how I know that a carbon Pesach can transition into a shalom. And that kind of kind of I can even ask more is the even learned from here from I got a third marker. But I tell you the price is tell you that for the carbon Pesach you have to also burn the fatty tail on the cuz you in the Pesach shalom that Pesach shalom. So a carbon Pesach that is now aged out it's over a year or the shalom that comes out of the carbon Pesach which is a reference to the carbon those have the same she is me shake when the terror says and if it's an A's that creates a person leaving saying it's that a goat does not need to have it it's tail burned on the back. So one of the things that the list was the carbon Pesach that's over that's also a mice of Pesach. So we have now a third that a mice of Pesach can be brought as a shalom. So what is the real marker that a mice of Pesach can be transitioned into a shalom? To which the says cry they're really three different markers. Over the money the over where Pesach is over and it's aged out with a year and the the lawyer over it's after but it's not yet a year old animal. Meaning it's before Pesach and the animal still within its first year. And for whatever reason I can't bring it as a carbon Pesach it's an extra animal. So these are three different cases we need three different makiras. If it's srichi and there's a sricha for all three tiash mean over over shnosai that that can become a shlamim because it's legamri. So it's very and it's going to lose its carbon Pesach kite and become a complete shlamim. Aval over over shnosai cause you Pesach shaini it in of itself is really shaya to being a carbon Pesach and therefore I could theoretically bring it for a Pesach shaini. Same way maybe it won't lose its carbon Pesach kite and then it won't become And therefore I need a pasuk to tell me that. Viash mean over shnosai so let's say it's not yet Pesach and it hasn't aged out it's still within the year. So I might have said to Pesach rishon that's what I need to tell me that it can become a shlamim. Aval over over shnosai that feel the Pesach rishon chazi then maybe it wouldn't even lose its carbon Pesach kite and become a shlamim. Sricha therefore all three psukim are going to be needed. Hadran alacha tayda is we finished the eighth perek and baruch Hashem we got all the dafim recorded before Yom Tov and we'll pick it up with the ninth perek kasher l'semech and we'll see you on the other side.