Menachos Daf 80

All right. Pay let's pick it up three lines from the bottom of bays. This that we were discussing on yesterday's daf that an extra carbon t that's put from bringing is only going to be when the bum already got his kapara from the original carbon. Right? We're talking about a case. Let's say he lost it and he got another one. They found the original one. So once he already had the kapara and when we say kapara it's a labka term. It means once he used the carbon that's when he'll be put from the but let's say that carbon that was surplus carbon was brought before there was aap then they will require so heavy what kind of situation of an extra carbon was talking about it's a carbon that's a which we're going to need to explain what that actually means he wouldn't need to say that because if it's before he actually was able to achieve the km of his carbon we already learned in the Bryson before and if it's already if he's already used the carbon from the original carbon we also learned that yesterday's Bryce can't be talking about the now just in terms of definitionally what is a as opposed to a taidas so gives us either he says the difference between a that's a ora is going to be whether or not you use a lion of nether or haru because a net and whether or not there's going to make a difference in its classification rashi then brings a Second shot that says we're talking about one of the guy who recovered from an illness, the guy went out the midbar or the yam, you know the kind the kind of people have to bench those on the lists. That's what is going on here and that's actually how Rashi and that we just lained Rashi brings the in reference to the carbon taida. It is though really a little bit of a challenge because a carbon taida is not really a in a conventional sense. Our gumaras have constantly been using carbon taida as an example of a nadava person chooses to thank Hashem with a carbon taida. So the whole idea of itself is a little bit fair but the mubetes over here puts a finer point on it. Take a look at the mukb that really asks the kasha very directly he asks on rashi about saying the guy never said what happened he went through a dangerous situation and that's a carbon he never took it upon himself. So that really speaks to a general larger issue of defining the aspect of a carpenta. For more research you could take a look at fishial pearllo and his magnum opus over there on ribs page 517 he proceeds to talk five pages about this rashi. The last maramokum I would just share is garishim kind of has a similar idea to rashi but it's kind of a middle ground he's at that point he cries out if you save me I'll bring a carbon. That's what we're talking about when he's m of himself during the a surah. It's reminiscent of the of the Ramban that there is no of mida to davin except during an a sor. Anyway, aloponum argamura of am here is specifically trying to figure out what was me talking about that these extra carbonas are not going to require if they were for we knew it already. And if it was napar we also knew it already. Ella now we're moving over to Ella. What's the kind of carbon is talking about the other kind of carbon which is a carbonid which like we said according to Rashi might be a different that you used but something that you certainly brought on your own that you weren't to bring but that can't be because those always do need why because if you're bringing an independent carbon voluntarily so why wouldn't you be to have along with it it's not a replacement for something else maybe you know what's talking about not talking about the actual carbonid but it's a vlad of that taid which is what we introduced yesterday at the end of yesterday's daff rashi had said let it's a paramis that then gives birth which the rash doesn't like he bes on the rashi because come on if it's mubber then it's not a vlad and it's right there now it must be the should before it became mubber but that can't be because ain't you never for me that vlad is not a carbon tida it's only what we call a quotequote messer and you don't have any for the messer tida we must be talking about the but it's a so that was the clarification of what he's talking about and therefore what is the telling us the fact that it works at all it's a surplus of the hectish it also is that same that the owner had from the actual animal now very similarly the gar is going to quote heavy bonami that it marami The replacement of au these extra carbonas are all independent carbonus. Of course they require they're regular carbon because therefore they don't require but that's kind of the middle ground. Period. Okay. Whenever you have a mess right that's when the when the carbonus loses its connection to its bum says it has to die. So whenever you have such a situation by me the similar case by a carbon would not require it. So by all those five cases of the acronym of which is a reference to the five different kinds of so those five cases will not require and any time where a carbonus is left to graze. So if you're waiting for that m to appear and bif and use that money to buy another carbon in that corresponding case of a taida it will have his and we're going to see what the case is this that the says if he brings it as a if a guy sets aside his carbon tida he loses it he puts another one in its place and now the original was found both of them could be brought as a carbon and I got to bring it with that carbon Maybe that second one also requires its own bring it as a carbon. But it sounds like it both of these animals don't require says both of them can be brought as a carbon. So one of them will act as his capara but the second one's left to die. The second animal doesn't have to die unless it's a case only if you found that first designated animal after you've already brought the carbon but then it's going to be until it develops a mum. So what do you see from the if the katus is found before that replacement carbon is brought it's going to be but the carbon if it's found and then that replacement is brought as a carbon before it it's brought without so how can say that whenever its corresponding will require formuli who argues with the mesa even if it's found before that replacement carbon is brought according to rebi it's taka true that whenever a katas is left to die in the corresponding case of a carbon that carbon will be brought without the soybe when are you ever going to have a case of a that is because according to every lost is always left to die for the guy separated two animals one would be for that purpose and in case the first one would be lost the second one could be brought so in such a case he can always just pick whichever one he wants there's your case of roya likeia in such an example which is essentially a surplus of a second animal you don't have so that can't be the case so Ella you don't have a problem about looking for the case of roya because that all those five animals are going to die and there's no exceptions to that rule doesn't matter if the original animal was found before the replacement was brought or not doesn't matter they're always going to die according to shim so because schmool holds like shiman schmoo will therefore say that carbon tita that's replaced is always going to be brought without the less according to there is no case of sobri what did he mean when he said if the is the really only said one which was into an whenever has that of being the corresponding case of that carbon is not going to require so that was the one thing he said and the fact that we quoted saying that the that's going to be roy is actually a mistake he never said that it's how rashi learns so and therefore what's kadesh Since all of these lost carbonas are always going to be messa the corresponding carbonas don't have isn't anything we don't already know from the bry which the says a person can achieve their kapar or at least their success of the carbon algdish the offspring the surplus of aish so according to I don't hold like that and therefore you can't achieve your kapara aly thedish and therefore the taida will never have any aba zoo If a guy says this is a carbon and this is its and in such a case you can replace the bread but let's say you lost the actual carbon itself you don't replace the animal so why is one more important than the other seemingly not the other way around this expression of islaid so in the bureidus over here it brings from Nicholsburg that that should be a yid's attitude all the time that when I eat my read it's only there so this way I can thank Hashem for it. Those of you who've been listening to my share for many years know his classic story about the little boy talking to the Reb. I forget which Reb he was talking about but when he asked the Rebrea, what's the difference between me and you, I eat an apple and you eat an apple. I make a bra on the apple and you make a brah on the apple. And the Reb told the little boy, you make a braha so you can eat the apple. I eat the apple so I can make a that's the idea over here. There's your word for the day. back to the let's say somebody set aside their money to buy a carbon turning over to bay and after he paid for the animal there's money left over so what does he do with the extra money you can use that money to buy the but let's say he had money to buy the and after he bought the there was extra money left over in maybe you cannot use that extra money to buy the carbon tid with it so my time why is it okay to use the money that was designated for an animal to be used to buy the of the kahana. So the name of taida is both used for the animal and the so therefore the money that you set aside for the carbon animal can also be used for theami it should also work the other way around that if you designated the money for the you should be able to pay for the animal as well to which the so one is more primary term and therefore money that was set aside for the bread cannot be now used to buy the animal but rather only themselves let's say someone was mafish an animal for his carp Then it got lost. And then he designated another one. It got lost. Now a third animal was designated. This guy's really losing lots of animals. And then he found the first two. Now he's got all three animals in front of him. So the question is the he has what's going to be its status visav these three animals. So now let's say he already did the kapar with the first animal. The second one's not going to require because it's the replacement for the first. But the third which is now no longer connected. It's its own independent carbonid. Well then it will be to only if you already brought the first animal. Let's say you brought the third animal. So now because that's the replacement one but the first one now is disconnected. So the first one is going to require but let's say he used the middle one. The first and the third can act as their replacement one. So therefore they will not require a biome. It's not true. Even if you got kapar from any one of them that you brought already because since they all act as a potential replacement for that carbon none of them will require it'll be the same corresponding as we're saying now by the carbon if you designate and it got lost before you brought it. So now you got three animals that were separated. You found all your animals and they're all standing in front of you. So the will be that the second one's got to die, but the third one will be a roy because it's now an independent animal. It's not designated as the replacement. Let's say you already brought the third animal. Likewise, but if you brought the middle animal thenu both the first and the third will be connected as replacement animals and therefore they all have to die. Why? Because what was of applying the same from the of course they parallel each other to which the says if never told us this I might have said a sara where you can have an idea of more carbon titis carbonitis can be added a person can bring as many titus as he wants so therefore that's why there' be more of a reason to disconnect the first and third animals and not the we don't say the idea of being rashi interestingly says over here it's not that for people to have more what do you mean ain't darken you can't bring a so why would rashi need to say this we don't find that a person can add more and therefore I might not say it parallels the idea of the carbonita that they are the same both the katas and the tit are going to have the same the replacement visav to be the disconnection from the animal. Tony the carbonid got mixed up not with another animal but with its so you don't know which one was the original carbon and which one was its tumor of course tumor is still an aa to do it but it's and there is kaduca on the turra both of them are kadesha and now one of these animals died so the is you can't bring it as a carbon the other one because if you bring with it and aura of aid is brought without let's say you don't want to bring the and you have to and therefore you're not being because you didn't bring the now what is this case that we're talking about a lie I am bringing a carbon to and therefore I'm making a on this carbon so then he can't not bring another one because he has to be is neither so let him say if this surviving animal is the one then this then this will be the and this will be If the living animal is the there isn't over here to which the says no there is no of the to bring this since it's au which has no you can't now make a new animal as a possible replacement for the original carbon tida and therefore there's no way to make a chit and we're going to stop here and mashem folks I really hope to be recording all of the yaf doin before pesak it's a busy time of year and to do three extra daffin before three of ain't push it But how can I not? For all you guys who are taking the time to listen to my daff, I want to make sure everybody's got their daff recorded in the can before Yumpt starts.