Menachos Daf 61

All right. Friday's daff and yesterday we were working through this lengthly bry about when we need hagasha or when we don't. We had about the word that according to shim it's the hagasha of the as poster who holds it the hagasha of the and now we're picking it up in the middle of this discussion. It's the first of the middlesized lines on Ba. Maybe you should say the following suggestion that the word is coming to teach you that maybe the whole point of is to say that a y could bring a separate from those that are listed in the para because as Rashi speaks out in the beginning of parikra there are a whole bunch of different that are listed the mares and those are the only ones that aid could bring but maybe that's what is coming to tell me and vinhu and you can make a to that point because maybe that brings a which is a reference to the and it has to be because it can't be otherwise it wouldn't be for the and also that brings which is a reference to which is made out of so I said it was not really it's just we should be able to say logically that should also be able to bring So these only the ones that actually enumerated those are the ones you could bring as a and therefore is not coming to tell you could bring other carbon but rather it'll be how to learn maybe I'll give you another option maybe if a guy says I'm going to bring a car and he doesn't say what kind of maybe he's got to bring all five and therefore the terror would have to tell me mayah from these that maybe he could bring one of those five or maybe or he could bring all five. Okay, so that's an option too. And what other are we talking about? And that's so they're all going to require the also need which we've already established means from these meaning only some of these not all of these as we're going to see. It's going to be upon him as we're going to say maybe it's the other way around and it should be coming to include upon him. They have the mile of having the meaning the fire that burns the because the entire things are eaten. Even though we mentioned that has the associated that goes on and has the associated but that's not from the actual carbon it's just associated with them as we're going to see later on those completely go on. So maybe based on what we're saying they should also have to which is from the how can you even suggest the word should be used that way already used it to tell me that has the says meaning the additional hey at the end is a that only it that moving over to which has the mil Because it's only coming the other bas that only those need you're using for that. So it's not extra. Noisha that extra hay gives us an opportunity for drussia. Maybe it should be the other way around. No, as we had said those are all including the fact that we give the to the no part of it gets burned because no part of it is given to the and the last part of the bra saysim which is that first word of the so what are we darian I might have thought that actual could be done with a cle as opposed to the three middle fingers in the cayenne's hand. So the is going to be the just like in par over there. It's certainly a reference to the kumi. There is no English translation for kumi. It's just going to be the amount that those three fingers are going to hold in your hand. Here also in parra when we had this har it's going to be kumi. So we have a special of to say it can't be done with a cle the terima wants to know what's the could have been done with a cle is a standardized amount whatever that amount is but standardized and we know that the kamita is going to be tully on the size of every respective kayen. So how could we have ever standardized a cle and theim says that based on this that you need to do it with your fingers and not do with your hand that's how we know that it can be totally on the size of each kayen's hand but before this maybe it could have been standardized we have mentioned in the past that there is an idea of kamitza even for shemen and it's hard to understand how does she get a kamitzah it's a liquid I forgot which one of the rein said that perhaps it's congealed but the t oft says inami there was kamitza done alude a cle when it came to shemen zakishna this is a continuation of yesterday's. So that's the heading. Some of these require but not that that's part of the process of his as we're going to see in the requires for that those are going to require which is going to explain. How do you do the for the you do on? You actually put the physically on these two living, right? Because we're about to describe the here and you put your hands underneath these animals and lift them. And if you think about it, I don't know how much a sheep actually weighs. This sounds kind of physically challenging. And what do you do? Your maluid. You go in all four directions, up, up, down, down, right, left, and all around. The idea of tufa is not so foreign to us because we do it with alulv with the nanuim. There's actually a really beautiful rabbay and I had never heard of razner mentioned it but I feel like a maramokum like this can really help give you something to think about when we do the nanum this can be found in paragid where first explains why you're doing with a shake in general it's because the and the shik represent the movement of a person the shik is the leg and the is where the heart is which is the motor that makes things move. But he goes on to explain that the we do both by carbonus and by the lulv is a reference to gull and kul like hashem sends us out and then will bring us back in and theina went up meaning went away from us and now the oid will coming back down to us and then he expands it also to the nama goes up and then the shama comes back down. So we're not just doing an uncle hashem is here is there so it's really a reference to our own existential nishamas as well as theina gis gula etc. continues the Mishna that tufa happened on the eastern side of the misbeh which the way Rashi understands doesn't mean you should do it there you can do it there of course you want to be closest as possible to the heal which is going to be on the western side but you're also allowed to do it on the eastern side that's how Rashi learns and are in the order of what you do first you do the tanufa before theasha now both of those are aim lights following thing which doesn't seem to be aish but it just seems like it's a way to remember it meaning there are three different kinds of in three different mitzvah but only two of those three are and not the third. So all three of these are only going to have two of the three. Now we go through what are the two of the three they get while they're still alive and they get the after do not have while they are still alive. However, we're going to see it has the So what is this Bryce going to learn from the PK that seems to put together the sheman with the you do the whole peckle with the shemen together as part of the still your okay the way Rashi reads it is each one of these things can be done independently maybe you should do them separately one at a time it's a single it's auf so you got to do them all together. The post begins off by saying which we said before about that. I might have thought that you do that on the western side not on the eastern side. So for that it's done on the is only requires the existence of aid of the Karen Mus and since there is no in this and could therefore even be done on the misra we can also assume that of the can be done on the misra. Then the Mishnad said the Bryce says which is a reference to the taking that we learn from the rebel. Now my time travel how do you see the as that you need because he's going to learn from the carbonim to teach me you need to have by both and the turning over. We also can learn from the shave that also the cayenne does the bim by the schlim. So how are they both doing the if the cayenne puts his hand underneath the bum's hands and does the tanufa together? Very interesting. Tyus over here about whatever happened to how does the cayenne put his hand underneath the bum's handy. Now you have a katita between the basket and the cayenne's hand because you have the bum's hand. So Tyus learns it's lavka doesn't actually mean you put it under his hand. Even though that's difficult from the urushi that asks the kasha of how is tanufa done with a woman's hand you're going to have a problem of nia and over there three different answers are given maybe there's a mappa like a cloth in between or maybe the ken is old he's a zen and therefore there's no problem very interesting ter or because we're doing the in the b of mdish there's no yeets or being shil all relevant mars for when you're preparing your next year on but regarding tyus's kash not being a katita tyus and kaduca says if the tyrant tells you this is how you should do the tnufa that can't be a kata this is how to do it and Tyus brings from Rashi later on that really the tanufa is done by the bum not by the kayen so there's no real problem of for the because the bum is the based on that and suggests that the bum should be the one to make the on the rather than the kahan because they're the at this point but that's all the why couldn't our mission also say that require like did because the bra says and there's a by that you do a placement of the and we maybe it's just putting it down literally we already said you put it down so the only reason you're repeating is telling me so nowuda also holds that requires so why are we assuming it's from the Mishna wants because had made the which are the words that precede the we assume it's also or you know why we picked because he is the man as Rashi brings from the Gar multiple places that says that was the next part of the Mishna which lists those that have but no which Rashi understands that the Mish itself seems to be you tell me and both requires and then it says which seems to be The actual is only done by the men and not by the women folk. So in the women, but they don't actually do the tufa. The does the as we see this in now we see the terror made a differentiation that only happens by the I might have thought that same that exists by also exists by and there's only going to be a by men light we don't say that because the whole criteria is about basis when it comes to and that's why and the is done by it's not about the basis and therefore there should be no reason to make the and it's so even though are going to be the actual process will be done by the men folk there is what seems to be a difficult rashi over here when rashi says thatim if you notice Rashi says if the kayan are doing the why can't the women and the have that process be done by thems are representing the of these women and it could be that rashi doesn't mean an actual it's not like it's more like the kind of where you just got to get it done but perhaps there's more to talk about with that rashi we're going to stop here we'll pick it up with the Shabas is stuff.